[06:26] <Tm_T> old news: http://wiki.ubuntu-fi.org/Wiki/Press_release-Ubuntu_CDs_for_Finnish_parliament_representatives
[10:28] <Hobbsee> manchicken: adepts changelogs...how does it implement them?
[10:31] <Hobbsee> manchicken: please see my comments on bug 136381
[10:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136381 in adept "Adept doesn't show changelogs." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136381
[11:58] <mhb> good morning starshine
[12:12] <aantipop> any idea why ccsm on gutsy has no icons ?
[12:22] <mhb> aantipop: isn't that a Gtk app?
[12:26] <aantipop> umm
[12:27] <aantipop> yes depends on python-gtk2
[12:31] <aantipop> but the hole compiz-fusion thing is made for kde too, there is libcompizconfig-backend-kconfig and and compiz-kde metapackage
[12:31] <aantipop> so there should be items for the settings-manager :/
[12:42] <blekos> hi, has anybody managed to compile gnucash 2.2
[12:45] <gnomefreak> blekos: why ar eyou asking that in a kubuntu devel channel? isnt that a gnome app?
[12:46] <blekos> i'm using kubuntu gutsy, so I thought for a correct compilation for my system I should ask smn with relevant sys
[12:50] <gnomefreak> blekos: i believe it only needs gtk libs so it wont matter about kubuntu you would have to install the needed libs to build it
[01:44] <Riddell> hola
[01:48] <\sh_away> hey Riddell
[01:48] <Riddell> did I miss anything?
[01:50] <apokryphos> hi Riddell. Just a note that about after 2 weeks (or whatever), I got that guy to send me the kickoff source that he has (link: http://francis.giannaros.org/files/kicker-kickoff-kubuntu.tar.gz ). No idea if that's useful 8)
[01:52] <mhb> Riddell: hey!
[01:53] <mhb> Riddell: you missed me locating the evil konsole kpart bug
[01:53] <mhb> Riddell: I hope you enjoyed the vacation
[02:01] <Riddell> mhb: you did??
[02:01] <Riddell> how?
[02:02] <mhb> Riddell: well, recompiling the old konsole actually made it work
[02:02] <mhb> Riddell: so I diffed file after file and tried
[02:07] <Riddell> old konsole?  like KDE 3.5.5?
[02:08] <mhb> Riddell: yes.
[02:10] <Riddell> mm, I tried that, didn't make any difference
[02:10] <Riddell> mhb: so where did you find the problem?
[02:11] <mhb> Riddell: just uploaded the patch (actually a diff of two files between 3.5.5 and 3.5.7) to bug 117731
[02:11] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 117731 in python-kde3 "Python crashes after attaching pty to a konsole kpart" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/117731
[02:12] <mhb> there's a QPtrVector code which has changed, so I guess the error is in there
[02:14] <mhb> Riddell: I built a 3.5.7 package with this patch applied, and both me and ScottK tested it with positive results
[02:14] <LongPointyStick> Riddell!
[02:22] <mhb> Riddell: also, http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/7599.html might be a good read when you have some spare time (KDE devs blog about Kubuntu quite often, though)
[02:24] <manchicken> LongPointyStick: That's a seriously useful hint.
[02:24] <manchicken> LongPointyStick: I would have never gotten that.
[02:24] <manchicken> LongPointyStick: I think it's also happening for restricted packages.
[02:25] <manchicken> LongPointyStick: restricted modules seems to have the same thing happening.
[02:25] <manchicken> LongPointyStick: Do they have source packages to rely on?
[02:26] <manchicken> Riddell: I'm running a Software Freedom Day no-charge community computer workshop today.
[02:26] <manchicken> Riddell: It should be interesting to see if I can get the local kubuntuers and KDErs to come out and join me.  That'd be nice to be able to find a team I could sprint with.
[02:31] <manchicken> allee: So how're things going?  Sorry to have had to run so quickly yesterday.
[02:32] <allee> manchicken: np. me too.  And again.  in 15 min is IRC deadline
[02:32] <allee> manchicken: so things are busy are you may have guesssed
[02:32] <manchicken> heh
[02:32] <allee> manchicken: right now I'm fighting my way through launchpad project and team (fai)
[02:32] <manchicken> I know the feeling.  I've got a computer workshop to run in 4.5 hours.
[02:32] <manchicken> Nice.
[02:33] <allee> manchicken: heh, here it BBB of my son at the school.
[02:33] <manchicken> My washing machine caught fire yesterday, so I had to deal with the fire department and all of that interesting.
[02:33] <\sh> allee, what are you trying (FAI) ?
[02:33] <allee> manchicken: oh, oh.  Sounds like interesting hours :)
[02:34] <manchicken> allee: Gosh, I tell you the neighborhood kids got one hell of a show.  That's for sure.
[02:34] <Hobbsee> manchicken: did you see what i said above, btw?
[02:34] <allee> \sh: siretart has created a fai team in lauchpad
[02:34] <\sh> allee, ahhh
[02:34] <manchicken> allee: My neighbors are probably thinking "what the hell is wrong with this guy?  He moves in and two weeks later he's already burning the place down!"
[02:34] <allee> \sh: never really used bazaar before
[02:34] <\sh> allee, easy ;)
[02:34] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Yes.  Do restricted packages have source packages?
[02:35] <allee> \sh: yeah, what is were in lauchpad is the tuffer part
[02:35] <\sh> allee, I wonder if siretart had a talk to thomas...
[02:35] <manchicken> Hobbsee: The way it currently implements the changelogs is it takes the package and tries to construct a URL based on the current package.
[02:35] <manchicken> Hobbsee: I could have a more complete answer later if you'd like one.
[02:35] <allee> \sh Thomas was on IRC when we talked about it yesterday.
[02:35] <Hobbsee> manchicken: l-r-m has a source, yes
[02:36] <\sh> allee, ah on oftc?
[02:36] <manchicken> Hobbsee: What about vmware?
[02:36] <Hobbsee> manchicken: right, but you need to check where the current packages *source* resides.
[02:36] <Hobbsee> not the binary
[02:36] <manchicken> Hobbsee: I need a consistent pattern that I can work off of.
[02:36] <Hobbsee> which is what i expect you do now
[02:36] <allee> \sh: I hope merging stuff pack to fai svn or debian bts will prove uncomplicated.  I don't want to give he impression we fork
[02:36] <Hobbsee> indeed.  so use the component where the source is located, not the binary.  changelogs.u.c goes via sources
[02:37] <manchicken> Well, I don't necessarily work off of the binary.  If you go to a source package I'll go off of the source package.  I just go for the current package.
[02:37] <\sh> allee, that's the worst way what we can do...a fork of something which works really nicely regardin ubuntu and debian
[02:37] <manchicken> allee: Nice.
[02:37] <allee> manchicken: yeah, would be too much fire for a BBB ;)
[02:37] <manchicken> allee: I think I'm too crazy for Europe.  Only in America do they let crazies like me run free.
[02:38] <Hobbsee> manchicken: do you see what i'm saying?
[02:38] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Yeah.
[02:38] <\sh> manchicken, or send to them to Cuba ,-)
[02:38] <Hobbsee> manchicken: ahh.  well there's the problem
[02:38] <allee> lol
[02:38] <Hobbsee> if they're going via a binary, you need to find teh corresponding source package, and then grab the changelog from that
[02:38] <manchicken> Hobbsee: I'm just worried that it's going to be klugy and hackish to implement because it would be based on an inconsistent pattern.
[02:38] <Hobbsee> manchicken: i cant see how that's inconsistant, though
[02:39] <\sh> manchicken, in Europe you can do this: http://www.sourcecode.de/node/914
[02:39] <manchicken> Hobbsee: is there a "kate-src" package?
[02:39] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Because there is a "kate" package.
[02:39] <allee> BBB bbl (hopefully).  Bye
[02:39] <\sh> have fun allee
[02:40] <manchicken> It points to another one, but the string that is being used is still "kate"
[02:40] <manchicken> What does "BBB" mean?  I'm not familiar with that acronym.
[02:40] <Hobbsee> manchicken: whatever apt-cache showsrc kate gives you
[02:40] <\sh> manchicken, what are you trying?
[02:41] <\sh> manchicken, barbecue
[02:42] <manchicken> \sh: Ah.  Do you know the direct expansion?  I'm curious now :)
[02:42] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Hmm... I only hope libapt makes it that convenient to get to.
[02:42] <manchicken> If it does than this fix may be mindnumbingly simple.
[02:42] <\sh> manchicken, the normal abbrev should be BBC
[02:43] <\sh> manchicken, sorry...BBQ
[02:43] <Hobbsee> manchicken: i have no idea, but aptitude changelog also has the same bug.
[02:43] <manchicken> \sh: Very true.  Barbecue has a shockingly scarce need for the letter "Q"
[02:43] <Hobbsee> manchicken: i know none of libapt at all, sorry.
[02:43] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Well right now I'll focus on adept, and I'll see about aptitude later but make no promises. :)
[02:43] <\sh> Hobbsee, what is the problem?
[02:44] <manchicken> Riddell: Do you know if your adept repository is up to date?
[02:44] <Hobbsee> manchicken: cool
[02:44] <Hobbsee> \sh: the changelog function in adept
[02:45] <\sh> Hobbsee, and it fetches somehow wrong or none changelog?
[02:46] <Hobbsee> \sh: for sources that are in a different component to their binaries
[02:46] <\sh> Hobbsee, ah source in universe but 1 out of 3 binary packs in main ;)
[02:47] <Hobbsee> \sh: usually the other way around.
[02:47] <Hobbsee> but, yes
[02:51] <\sh> hmm....check where the source is...you have the first letter so you can create a URL for the four sections...and if one section match use it to fetch the changelog from c.u.c
[03:47] <Hobbsee> manchicken: this stuff is a bitch.
[04:00] <manchicken> he likes being bugged :)
[04:01] <manchicken> back later
[05:04] <Jucato> happy software freedom day :)
[05:56] <mhb> Jucato: to you too
[05:58] <Jucato> just got back from our celebration here. Ubuntu was distributed with the kits. unfortunately no kubuntu...
[05:58] <Jucato> but at least KDE in some forms were well represented
[06:02] <mhb> how many python-kde projects do we have?
[06:02] <mhb> I mean those that are targeted at Kubuntu
[06:02] <mhb> gdebi-kde is in python, restricted-manager-kde is, kde-guidance is, and?
[06:03] <Jucato> all guidance stuff, software-properties, gdebi
[06:03] <Jucato> oh restricted-manager too? I see
[06:03] <stdin> yep, restricted manager is
[06:04] <Jucato> well basically every Kubuntu-specific GUI app seems to be python-based
[06:04] <mhb> Jucato: right. Do you know of any more?
[06:04] <Jucato> at the moment. no
[06:05] <Jucato> how about strigiapplet?
[06:06] <mhb> C++
[06:06] <Jucato> the one in the system tray? oh..
[06:07] <mhb> Jucato: how's your C++ skills doing?
[06:08] <Jucato> starting with object-oriented stuff next week most probably
[06:08] <Jucato> inheritance, polymorphism, operator overloading, templates
[06:10] <stdin> I made this yesterday, as a kind of self test: http://stdin.pastebin.us/39540
[06:11] <Jucato> at first glance the breaks in the switch seem to be redundant :)
[06:12] <stdin> yeah, but it's how I leant how to use them, so it's like habit ;)
[06:12] <Jucato> well, in this case it's a good habit anyway
[06:13] <Hobbsee> Jucato: please teach me inheritance and the next 2 bits :P
[06:13] <Jucato> Hobbsee: if and when I myself understand them. a bit scary...
[06:13] <Jucato> it's like the pointers of C++ :)
[06:13] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:13] <Hobbsee> pointers are...yeah
[06:14] <Jucato> "ptr is a constant pointer to a constant int" :)
[06:14] <Jucato> just lovely :)
[06:14] <Hobbsee> bwah...why?
[06:15] <Hobbsee> why not just declare teh constant int and be done with it?  if you cant move the pointer anyway...
[06:15] <Hobbsee> it's bracketed trees
[06:15] <Jucato> const int *ptr; // you can make ptr point to something else
[06:15] <Hobbsee> stdin: ew.
[06:15] <Hobbsee> stdin: for what do you need such major switch statements?
[06:15] <Jucato> int const *ptr; // you can't make ptr point to something else, but you can change the value of what it's pointing to
[06:16] <Jucato> const int const *ptr; // you basically can't do anything :P
[06:16] <stdin> Hobbsee: I'm 1/2 way through my 1st book, give me a break; ;)
[06:16] <Jucato> kthxbye
[06:16] <Hobbsee> stdin: just thinking that it's a weird thing that you're trying to do.
[06:16] <Hobbsee> Jucato: heh
[06:17] <Hobbsee> stdin: btw, case 1: return foo;
[06:17] <Hobbsee> break
[06:17] <Jucato> stdin: btw, according to my book (just according to it) const would be preferred to #define
[06:17] <Hobbsee> also works
[06:17] <Hobbsee> if you're wanting to cut space a bit.
[06:17] <Jucato> what? you love using else if ladders? :)
[06:17] <stdin> Hobbsee: it was just a way to see if I got some basics down, not supposed to be "elegant" :)
[06:18] <Hobbsee> stdin: ahhh.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> Jucato: depends.  usually there's a way to modify what happens so you dont need either.
[06:18] <Jucato> yeah, coz if his elegance/tabbing would be graded, I'd give him a C or D :D
[06:18] <Hobbsee> Jucato: although one of my assignments used a massive switch table, iirc.
[06:18] <Hobbsee> Jucato: the trouble with switches, i find, is that they dont let you evaluate an expression inside of htem - it's only case 1, 2, 3, ... or a, b, c, ...
[06:19] <Jucato> true...
[06:19] <Jucato> that would be the use of else if ladders :)
[06:19] <Hobbsee> yeah
[06:19] <Hobbsee> fgets?  hmm.  havent seen that before
[06:20] <stdin> fgets is a "safe" version of gets
[06:20] <stdin> doesn't let the input overrun the string
[06:21] <Jucato> why not use a string instead?
[06:21] <Hobbsee> or cin.get
[06:21] <Jucato> cin.getline
[06:21] <Hobbsee> oh, it it getline?
[06:21] <Jucato> I believe so
[06:22] <Hobbsee> theyr'e introducing stuff in class that i've not heard of :P
[06:22] <Jucato> I need to finish this book before next year! :)
[06:22] <Hobbsee> stdin: so are Jucato and myself :P
[06:23] <mhb> everyone is
[06:23] <Jucato> stdin: different books, different teachers, different methods of teaching :)
[06:23] <Hobbsee> mhb: no, you dont count as learning.
[06:23] <Hobbsee> you know too much.
[06:23] <Jucato> mhb: no you're not :P
[06:24] <Jucato> stdin: but from what I've learned so far, that code is a bit leaning on the "coding C in C++"... I think
[06:24] <stdin> I've already passed some parts of my book without reading them, I'm sorta jumping all over it right now. guess I need some discipline
[06:24] <Hobbsee> stdin: you can always refer back to it if you need it.
[06:24] <Jucato> yep
[06:24] <Jucato> Hobbsee: I'm the reverse, no a bit of code, very little packaging
[06:24] <Riddell> manchicken: I don't know, it should be
[06:24] <Hobbsee> uh oh, here's the high up Riddell
[06:25] <Riddell> Hobbsee: come back
[06:25] <Jucato> oooh! Riddell's back?! :)
[06:25] <Hobbsee> Riddell: what for?
[06:25] <Riddell> Jucato: I'm still in tenerife, but I have internet access now
[06:26] <Jucato> ah nice. how's everything there? :)
[06:26] <mhb> Riddell: eh? You should stay offline and relax!
[06:26] <Hobbsee> offline?  what's that?
[06:26] <Hobbsee> oh, tha'ts when the internet goes down, and we all gasp for air :P
[06:26] <Riddell> a week without internet access is stressful enough
[06:27] <Jucato> (a day in a conference without wifi is stressful...)
[06:27] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:27] <Jucato> I still have yet to attend a FOSS related event with available wifi...
[06:28] <Hobbsee> UDS had wifi, almost all the time
[06:28] <Hobbsee> not outside in the sun, near the pool though.  most disappointing :P
[06:29] <Jucato> haha
[06:29] <Hobbsee> was nice and warm, though!
[06:30] <Jucato> Hobbsee: you won't be going to Boston?
[06:30] <Hobbsee> Jucato: nope.
[06:30] <Jucato> oh..
[06:31] <Hobbsee> Jucato: boston+1 though....i'd hope to go
[06:31] <Hobbsee> Jucato: i eventually got an invite, but decided that i should stay back and pass electrodynamics
[06:31] <Hobbsee> although id' love to go, i do need to finish uni
[06:31] <Jucato> yeah uni first! :)
[06:31] <Jucato> oh... hm... boston+1 would be in May right?
[06:31] <Hobbsee> in 2 years, the story will probably be different.  but i'm doing hard subjects, and i need to pass them.
[06:31] <Hobbsee> yes, that's what i'd expect
[06:31] <Jucato> time to get active! hahah
[06:32] <Jucato> it's good that it isn't in june. classes here start in june... but since I'm going for home learning, that wouldn't be a problem anyway hehe
[06:32] <Riddell> Lure: how is kdepim doing?
[06:32] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it's during term time for me - they all are
[06:33] <Jucato> aw :(
[06:33] <Hobbsee> probably Riddell, Riddell and Riddell
[06:33] <Hobbsee> i was more wondering about kubuntu, not kde people
[06:33] <Jucato> hehe
[06:34] <Hobbsee> Riddell: surely you should, you put in the sponsorship lists!
[06:34] <mhb> Jucato: going where?
[06:34] <mhb> Jucato: UDS, fosscamp, something else?
[06:34] <Jucato> mhb: FOSSCamp (that's the name right?)
[06:34] <mhb> ah, not me
[06:34] <Jucato> uds?
[06:34] <Riddell> fosscamp is the weekend I think, UDS is the week event
[06:34] <mhb> right
[06:36] <Riddell> I think mhb, jjesse and nixternal got invites
[06:36] <mhb> Jucato: I am likely going to uds, if the nice US people at the embassy give me a visa
[06:36] <nixternal> oi
[06:36] <nixternal> yes, I got one
[06:36] <Jucato> hooray for nixternal!
[06:36] <nixternal> and I am hoping that my days off come through
[06:36] <Hobbsee> woot.  there will be a semi-kubuntu presence then
[06:36] <nixternal> dunno if I can go yet...I won't seek sponsorship though, I will leave that for the people who need it
[06:36] <Jucato> hm.. better not dream of uds too much, then...
[06:36] <Jucato> :(
[06:37] <nixternal> one of these days Jucato...if I can't make this one, I can hopefully make the next one
[06:38] <Jucato> oh Riddell, while you're here, http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133388
[06:38] <ubotu> KDE bug 133388 in general "Manage Repositories is disabled" [Normal,New] 
[06:38] <Jucato> haven't we fixed that in Kubuntu?
[06:39] <Riddell> Jucato: yes, we have a quick and dirty patch for it
[06:39] <Riddell> (which causes another bug if you choose the menu entry before it should be enabled)
[06:39] <Jucato> ouch..
[06:39] <Jucato> is mornfall still working on Adept btw?
[06:40] <Riddell> not as far as I know
[06:40] <Jucato> oh... :(
[06:40] <Riddell> certainly not the stable branch
[06:41] <Jucato> looks like that need for a package manger that mhb mentioned would slowly be coming true :)
[06:41] <Jucato> common backend in all *buntus, different frontends...
[06:42] <nixternal> when I run apt-get from the cli, and do an upgrade, it has a tendency to freeze before it finishes..I have to then remove the lock then -f install to complete it..anyone else seen this?
[06:42] <nixternal> I filed a bug, but haven't seen any traffic on it
[06:42] <Hobbsee> Membership of this team requires that you are a member of Ubuntu-dev - otherwise, how do you plan to upload to universe?
[06:42] <Hobbsee> so a whole stack of non ubuntu-dev people *still* apply for membership
[06:42] <nixternal> hehe
[06:43] <nixternal> what team is that Hobbsee ?
[06:43] <Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/
[06:43] <Hobbsee> one i'm an admin of
[06:43] <Hobbsee> and REVU is fun too.  a whole bunch of people continue to upload i386.changes.  nowhere in our docs does it state that that is acceptable.  and debian revisions of packages.
[06:43] <nixternal> hehe
[06:44] <Hobbsee> if it doesnt say ubuntu in the version number, IT IS WRONG.
[06:44] <nixternal> I keep telling people that
[06:44] <Hobbsee> i can understand getting confused over where to put it, but...
[06:45] <Jucato> in packaging, I'm more uneasy over the debian/ stuff, mostly control and rules :)
[06:45] <nixternal> although, we don't do it with the docs for some reason, but I didn't start it, I have only continued it :)
[06:45] <nixternal> Jucato: cdbs is your best friend...in /usr/share/doc/cdbs there is a guide that will show you the world :)
[06:46] <Jucato> nixternal: but don't you have to use the patch system that the previous maintainer used? iirc that was the recommendation in our guide
[06:46] <nixternal> well ya
[06:46] <Hobbsee> Jucato: usually a good idea.
[06:46] <manchicken> Riddell: Is your adept repo up to date?
[06:46] <nixternal> most of the KDE stuff is cdbs anyways
[06:47] <Hobbsee> Jucato: yeah, that's why we have REVU.  so other MOTU's can fix it.
[06:47] <Hobbsee> (and not me)
[06:47] <Jucato> hehehe
[06:48] <nixternal> Jucato: that is how I learned..go to kde-apps.org and download apps and create packages for them
[06:48] <Jucato> basically I wanted to make available *properly* packaged stuff from kde-apps/look
[06:48] <nixternal> I think you and I talked about that already before, and you said you were doing the same thing
[06:48] <Jucato> with PPA, I might not even need to have it uploaded to universe if they're not wanted :)
[06:49] <Jucato> nixternal: I *wanted* to do the same
[06:49] <Jucato> or rather, that was my motivation before
[06:49] <Hobbsee> Jucato: if it's fit for general use, it should be fit for universe.
[06:49] <Hobbsee> as in, not crackful
[06:49] <Jucato> Hobbsee: yeah. but with the amount of stuff in kde-apps.org... :)
[06:49] <Riddell> manchicken: seems to be
[06:49] <manchicken> Riddell: Much thanks.
[06:50] <nixternal> like KPlayer, but the dev ended up making it GPL v3 when it linked against Qt
[06:50] <Riddell> nixternal: did you get a response to that?
[06:50] <manchicken> Riddell: I'll be working on adept intermittently throughout the day.
[06:50] <Jucato> nixternal: he did? oh...
[06:50] <Riddell> manchicken: doing anything in paticular to it?
[06:50] <manchicken> I'm holding a free computer workshop today to celebrate Software Freedom Day
[06:50] <manchicken> Riddell: Changelog stuff seems to be near the top of the list.  Did you have a preference?
[06:50] <nixternal> Riddell: ya, he said stick with the older version, because he isn't moving away from GPL v3
[06:51] <manchicken> Riddell: Although I really want to do a python app that looks and smells more like the GNOME update-manager program.
[06:51] <nixternal> I don't want to smell Gnome!
[06:51] <manchicken> nixternal: Your mother smells like gnome, so I didn't think it bothered you so much :P
[06:51] <Hobbsee> manchicken: i cc'd you on a bug about the 404's, btw
[06:51] <Riddell> manchicken: we may well end up doing that for hardy+1 but it needs pykde 4 bindings with an embedded konsole first
[06:52] <nixternal> I told her to shower with a bar of KDE, so it should be better now
[06:52] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Cool.  I think Marco marked that one as a duplicate of the one where it's not fetching the changelogs.
[06:52] <manchicken> Riddell: I'm on board with the Python stuff, so count me in.
[06:52] <Hobbsee> manchicken: no, i reported one for aptitude
[06:53] <Hobbsee> (with reasons)
[06:53] <manchicken> nixternal: You're not fully clean until your KDE fully clean.
[06:53] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Ah, that one.  Gotcha.'
[06:53] <nixternal> hahaha
[06:53] <Hobbsee> manchicken: ameteur guess is that that code is in apt/libept anyway, so if you change it for one, you'll change it for all
[06:54] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Well synaptic doesn't seem to have this same problem.
[06:54] <Hobbsee> right
[06:54] <mhb> manchicken: is adept really *that* fubar?
[06:54] <manchicken> mhb: I don't want to call it fubar, because I really do think it works and works well.
[06:54] <manchicken> mhb: I just don't think it fits the complete picture of what we want it to do.
[06:55] <manchicken> mhb: At least not without lots of nasty hacks.
[06:55] <mhb> manchicken: python is fine for apps that you don't really run twice a day, but for a package manager I'd still go for C++
[06:55] <manchicken> mhb: But I'm not the kubuntu-driver.  Riddell is :)
[06:55] <manchicken> mhb: I would, too.  But even then I'd say that adept isn't necessarily what we want to completely stick with.
[06:55] <mhb> manchicken: yeah, but you have been taking care of adept for us, so your voice is important in this debate
[06:56] <manchicken> mhb: I've been pretty MIA lately though :)
[06:56] <manchicken> mhb: It will take almost a complete refactoring of adept to get the UTF8 stuff working properly.
[06:56] <Jucato> manchicken: you're still one of the Adept men, regardless :)
[06:57] <manchicken> Jucato: Thanks :)
[06:57] <Jucato> g'night Hobbsee!!!
[06:57] <nixternal> manchicken: you guys rocking the freedom thing down there today?
[06:57] <Hobbsee> night :)
[06:57] <manchicken> I hope some folks come to my computer workshop today ^_^
[06:57] <manchicken> Otherwise I may be very bored today.
[06:57] <Hobbsee> manchicken: oh well, you stay here while i go MIA :)
[06:57] <mhb> manchicken: the only downside of C++ is that it is hard to convince Gnome guys to have a C++ based backend
[06:57] <manchicken> nixternal: Trying to.
[06:57] <Jucato> manchicken: if it weren't too much work, I'd vote for a new or a reborn adept. but he who codes decides :)
[06:57] <manchicken> mhb: libapt scares me to be honest.
[06:58] <manchicken> mhb: There are so many areas of libapt where you have to swim forever to find a crash.
[06:58] <Jucato> manchicken: isn't adept made up of at least 3 languages? C++(Qt/KDE), python, and STL? :)
[06:58] <manchicken> mhb: And I haven't seen any serious documentation on the library--not that there for sure isn't any, I just haven't seen it.
[06:58] <manchicken> Jucato: Well, there is a Python interface to it, but libapt itself is C++ w/STL.
[06:58] <manchicken> No Qt/KDE
[06:59] <Jucato> ouch
[06:59] <mhb> manchicken: libapt or libept?
[06:59] <mhb> manchicken: that's a difference
[06:59] <manchicken> mhb: libapt-front and libapt-cache is what I'm talking about.
[06:59] <manchicken> Jucato: STL was the appropriate decision--short of a non-template-based library--for libapt though.
[07:00] <manchicken> Jucato: libapt shouldn't be tied to KDE, because Synaptic uses it, too, IIRC.
[07:00] <Jucato> it does? oh...
[07:00] <manchicken> I think so.  Not sure.
[07:00] <manchicken> I think aptitude may use it as well.
[07:00] <Jucato> but can't there still be a common backend, even if the frontends would be C++(KDE) and C(GNOME)? or is python really the only solution for this frontend-backend thing?
[07:00] <manchicken> Well libapt is the common backend.
[07:00] <Jucato> ah
[07:01] <manchicken> That's why STL is the most appropriate template library.
[07:01] <manchicken> It's just that STL is a PITA for UTF8.
[07:01] <manchicken> BAM!  Three acronyms.  Beat that.
[07:01] <jjesse> Riddell:  yes i did get an inivte and yes i did accept it, approved for wor kand all that
[07:01] <Jucato> STL is a PITA for UTF8 in APT?
[07:01] <manchicken> Jucato: Yeah.  STL does have UTF stuff though.
[07:02] <manchicken> Jucato: Very nice.
[07:02] <manchicken> Jucato: It's just that UTF8 is a normal thing in Qt, and it's not as much of a normal thing in STL as far as I can tell.
[07:02] <manchicken> I don't see it used as often.
[07:03] <manchicken> And while I don't really care about UTF8 much for myself, for you and many other Ubuntu/Kubuntuers, UTF8 is a big deal.
[07:03] <Riddell> jjesse: oh, great
[07:03] <jjesse> Riddell: yes boss thought it sounded like a great idea
[07:04] <jjesse> mahybe it will help convince him to do some linux consulting or something?
[07:04] <mhb> Jucato: what I'm talking about is how much code can be shared
[07:05] <Jucato> mhb: I see...
[07:05] <mhb> Jucato: when you use python, you can share a whole lot of code. only the DisplayText() and DisplayIcon() methods have to be UI-dependent, all the logic can be shared
[07:05] <mhb> with a nice object-oriented interface
[07:06] <mhb> gdebi has one, restricted-manager has too
[07:06] <Jucato> (software-properties as well afaik)
[07:06] <Jucato> oh well... :(
[07:06] <manchicken> mhb: For sure adept could be modified to fit everything we want to do with it, but we have to remember that we're pretty much the only group putting any serious effort into it.  IIRC mornfall is doing the family man thing--as am I--and his time seems to be in short supply.
[07:06] <mhb> but if you stick with a C library, you would have to tear out all this object-oriented logic into the frontend, which means less code reuse
[07:07] <mhb> the functions
[07:07] <Jucato> mhb: tbh, call me selfish, but I'm not really much concerned with how much code would be shared with GNOME :)
[07:08] <Jucato> as long as backends would be the same hehehe
[07:08] <mhb> (returnAllPackages() or something) can be shared, but the code that actually calls them cannot, but that can be done with python
[07:08] <Jucato> yeah I know.. I'm bad :P
[07:09] <mhb> Jucato: right, I'm being more pragmatic. If the shared code is maintained by folks like you or me, it will be worse than if it is maintained by a Canonical employee
[07:09] <mhb> because we cannot put all our time into it, whereas professional have the chance
[07:10] <mhb> Jucato: I can step out of Restricted Manager and be sure that bugs will be fixed in the common code by pitti and others, and therefore there will be bugs caught for the -kde frontend without me
[07:11] <mhb> Jucato: if there's a bug fixed in Synaptic and a similar one in Adept, noone from Synaptic will fix the Adept one
[07:11] <Jucato> although I doubt the GNOME guys are going to move away from Synaptic... :)
[07:11] <Jucato> unless of course mandated by Canonical :P
[07:13] <mhb> Jucato: this is actually my problem with the fancy new KDE4 Qt-based technologies
[07:13] <mhb> like Phonon or Solid
[07:14] <mhb> if I wanted to make a splendid new hardware manager for both Ubuntu and Kubuntu, I would have to make it either HAL-based, or make them totally separate
[07:14] <Jucato> mhb: well we'll have to see. some software development didn't always evolve start from a crossdesktop orientation
[07:15] <Jucato> most of the stuff in fd.o started from one side or the other, got accepted as a standard, and shoved in the other's throat :)
[07:15] <Jucato> so who knows... these KDE 4 stuff might evolve into something less KDE-centric and more fd.o-centric
[07:16] <Jucato> (unless of course some other people decide to make a similar implementation, submit to fd.o, get approved, etc...)
[07:16] <Jucato> anyway...
[07:16] <mhb> btw, is foreach() in some C++ library or is that just a Qt/KDE4 construct ?
[07:17] <mhb> because you have to use it in Solid
[07:17] <Riddell> it's a Qt 4 macro
[07:17] <Riddell> can't remember how it's implemented, maybe moc expands it
[07:18] <Lure> Riddell: kdepim is looking ok, we did another snapshot upload, now I plan to monitor svn for potential bug fixes
[07:18] <Jucato> mhb: sorry, but I'm of the opinion that you can't always play/win the cross-desktop card... so I may not be as worried as you. nonetheless I do understand where you're coming from :)
[07:19] <mhb> Jucato: right. That is true for apps like video players or graphic editing apps, but a package manager should be the must
[07:19] <mhb> Jucato: if we shared more with Ubuntu, we'd have less bugs in Adept. Now all we have is an unmaintained KDE3 app
[07:21] <mhb> Jucato: at least it's in KDE upstream SVN, right? :o)
[07:21] <Jucato> no. that wasn't what I was thinking
[07:21] <Jucato> :P
[07:21] <Jucato> ooh wow! ThomasZ! in here! :)
[07:21] <manchicken> Back.
[07:21] <Riddell> Lure: ThomasZ is having some problems with kdepim
[07:22] <Lure> Riddell: bug in LP?
[07:22] <manchicken> Having to have the coffee shop owner print out some signs for me.
[07:22] <gnomefreak> is upstream missing hte menu or just our version of kde4?
[07:22] <Jucato> gnomefreak: afaik, no plasma-based menu at all
[07:22] <mhb> gnomefreak: plasmoids are in playground, that's the problem
[07:22] <Jucato> not even with playground/base/plasma
[07:23] <mhb> sure, there is a plasma-based menu
[07:23] <gnomefreak> mhb: ah so once that is finally pushed i can have menu? ;)
[07:23] <Jucato> mhb: which one?
[07:23] <ThomasZ> Jucato: hiya :)
[07:24] <mhb> wait, I'm talking about the bar again instead of the menu
[07:24] <Jucato> :)
[07:24] <mhb> there was a button for it, but I'm not sure if they made progress
[07:24] <Jucato> well as of yesterday, no change
[07:24] <mhb> ah, sorry then
[07:24] <Jucato> even raptor doesn't do anything worthwhile except show up :)
[07:25] <Jucato> I'm not exactly the authority on all things plasmoid though :)
[07:25] <manchicken> Jucato: Really?  I feel so misled!
[07:25] <ThomasZ> Lure: my showstoppper-bug in kmail is that if I use kmail filters on my inbox for dimap to filter the mail to another account (and thus delete it in that inbox) doing a sync later will not delete the email in my inbox, but downloading it again.  So I end up with getting duplicates of my mail.
[07:25] <Jucato> manchicken: hehehe! nixternal's misleading advertisements of me :)
[07:26] <Lure> ThomasZ: interesting issue - since I use dimap, I will try to reproduce on monday
[07:26] <manchicken> Is anybody aware of any documentation for libapt or libept?
[07:27] <mhb> manchicken: not really, but I can help you search
[07:27] <Lure> ThomasZ: please open bug for this and you may want to talk with people in #kontact channel (just mention that you use enterprise version in kubuntu)
[07:27] <Lure> manchicken: isn't documentation "ask manchicken" ;-)
[07:27] <manchicken> Lure: That's not for documentation, that's for misinformation :)
[07:28] <Riddell> libept isn't documented
[07:29] <manchicken> Ooh, there is a "source" method in the PackageT template.
[07:29] <ThomasZ> Lure: in the meantime, is there any way to get a proper working (aka old) kmail for gutsy?  I need something workin for my work machine.
[07:30] <manchicken> Not sure what it does though.
[07:34] <Lure> ThomasZ: I do not see an easy way to downgrade. You could pick up old source package and build it yourself...
[07:36] <Riddell> ThomasZ: you can try grabbing the resulting binaries from https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdepim/4:3.5.7-1ubuntu7/+build/373215
[07:36] <Riddell> although there's quite a few
[07:36] <ThomasZ> hmm, ok, thanks
[07:54] <mhb> I've got some question, perhaps manchicken or someone else can help me...
[07:54] <mhb> what is libapt-front and what is its relationship to libept?
[07:54] <mhb> is libept used by anything other than adept? Is it actively maintained?
[08:03] <Riddell> mhb: libept is a library to do things with apt
[08:03] <Riddell> libapt-front is an old version of libept
[08:03] <Riddell> adept (being old) uses libapt-front, libapt-front is not maintained
[08:03] <Riddell> libept is maintained (by enrico) and is used in debtags and ept-cache
[10:18] <manchicken> Sweet.  Compiz-fusion is working nicely now.
[10:42] <Riddell> manchicken: with KDE borders?
[10:47] <waylandbill> I haven't tried compiz-fusion lately. The last time I did, the window decorations disappeared and my kicker panel didn't respond.
[10:48] <allee> manchicken: intel gfx?
[10:48] <manchicken> Riddell: I'm using emerald now.
[10:48] <allee> oh, hi Riddell  welcome back!!
[10:49] <manchicken> allee: Yeah.  It's very nice.
[10:49] <manchicken> I'm really liking it.
[10:49] <manchicken> It's actually faster than normal window management.
[10:50] <allee> Oh, cool.  /me wait's for bzr branch to finish ...
[10:50] <Riddell> manchicken: what's that?
[10:51] <Riddell> hola allee
[10:51] <manchicken> Riddell: What's what?  Emerald?
[10:51] <manchicken> Riddell: The kde-window-decorator kinda stinks.
[10:52] <manchicken> Riddell: Emerald (from Beryl, IIRC) works nicely with both KDE and compiz.
[10:55] <Riddell> manchicken: and emerald is another window decorator?
[10:56] <manchicken> Yes
[10:56] <manchicken> A very nice one.
[10:56] <manchicken> I'm really enjoying it.
[10:57] <Riddell> but gtk based
[10:57] <gnomefreak> only if it was easier to turn on
[10:57] <manchicken> Don't know.  Probably.
[10:57] <manchicken> gnomefreak: Too true.
[10:57] <manchicken> gnomefreak: I had to do way too much scripting to get this working.
[10:57] <manchicken> I'm just glad compiz seems stable enough to use now.
[10:58] <manchicken> The desktop effects gnome thing should do that
[10:58] <gnomefreak> manchicken: but i cant use emerald
[10:58] <gnomefreak> it is using default themes no way to change theme afaict
[11:00] <manchicken> gnomefreak: Why not?
[11:00] <gnomefreak> thats odd
[11:00] <manchicken> I'm changing themes in emerald without much trouble.
[11:00] <gnomefreak> it wasnt on but had some effects
[11:00] <manchicken> You just have to run emerald's theme manager.
[11:00] <manchicken> Might that have just been compiz?
[11:00] <manchicken> KDE's translucency stuff seems to work, but it's far from stable.
[11:00] <gnomefreak> i did but seems it wasnt enabled but i did hit enable
[11:02] <gnomefreak> hmmmmm still no themes and i saw splash but no icon in task bar
[11:04] <gnomefreak> trying emeralds theme svn thingy lets see
[11:07] <gnomefreak> manchicken: did you try the emerald theme fetcher?
[11:08] <manchicken> gnomefreak: No.  Is that built into the theme manager?
[11:09] <gnomefreak> yes
[11:10] <gnomefreak> under repositories
[11:11] <manchicken> Doesn't seem to do anything.
[11:12] <manchicken> brb, got folks here
[11:31] <ryanakca> Riddell: how was your vacation?
[11:31] <Riddell> ryanakca: ask me again in a week
[11:31] <ryanakca> Ah, not done :)
[11:32] <Riddell> just moved to somewhere with network
[11:32] <Riddell> and no English people
[11:32] <mhb> ryanakca: and he calls that vacation :o)
[11:33] <ryanakca> hehe
[11:33] <ryanakca> Where you now? (other than networked/non-anglophone community)
[11:33] <mhb> just joking ... everyone has a different idea of vacation
[11:34] <Riddell> ryanakca: here http://jasmine.19inch.net/~jr/away/2007-09-15-tenerife/100_1068.jpg
[11:35] <ryanakca> Ah, cool :D
[11:35] <Riddell> La Laguna, the city where everyone runs Kubuntu
[11:36] <ryanakca> before you disappear again, (if you have another guess off the top of your head, if not, don't bother looking into it, you're on vacation), have any more ideas for bug 136560 ?
[11:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136560 in kdebase "kde-base update install env and share folder at wrong place" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/136560
[11:37] <ryanakca> I've asked around in here over the past couple days, still no clue :)
[11:37] <Riddell> ryanakca: didn't we fix that?
[11:37] <ryanakca> I thought we did
[11:37] <Riddell> hmm, no, we didn't
[11:38] <ryanakca> but, I guess s/$KDEHOME/$kdehome didn't cut it
[11:38] <Riddell> "cp -f /usr/share/kubuntu-default-settings/gtk-qt-engine.rc.sh $HOME/$KDEHOME/env"  still has it in capitals
[11:38] <Riddell> give me a minute and I'll look at where it broke
[11:38] <ryanakca> ok, well, I'm off to my birthday supper, so, I'll either see you in a week, or later on tonight :)
[11:38] <ryanakca> Enjoy your vacation, and thanks :)
[11:39] <mhb> ryanakca: you have got birthday?
[11:40] <mhb> ryanakca: right, you have! Happy birthday!
[11:40] <mhb> ryanakca: wiki page told me
[11:41] <gnomefreak> ryanakca: happy birthday
[11:41] <coreymon77> ryanakca: happy birthday
[11:42] <mhb> ryanakca: you must be quite proud, having software freedom day as your birthday
[11:44] <mhb> ryanakca: luckily it is a movable feast, so more people can have this privilege :o)
[11:53] <coreymon77> guys
[11:54] <coreymon77> i want to change my launchpad logo to the kubuntu logo
[11:54] <coreymon77> but all i can find is the logo including the name kubuntu
[11:54] <coreymon77> how can i get just the little circely thing?
[11:55] <coreymon77> or do i seriously have to gimp it?
[11:58] <gnomefreak> look in examples?
[11:58] <gnomefreak> i thought they were in there
[11:59] <coreymon77> ???
[11:59] <coreymon77> look in where?
[11:59] <gnomefreak> ~/examples
[11:59] <coreymon77> oh
[12:00] <coreymon77> gnomefreak: ill change my logo from my kubuntu box
[12:00] <gnomefreak> hmmmm looks like it has kubuntu beside it
[12:01] <coreymon77> ya
[12:01] <coreymon77> making it too big for launchpad
[12:01] <coreymon77> meh
[12:01] <coreymon77> ill find it on google
[12:02] <coreymon77> seems like im gonna have to resize this one
[12:02] <coreymon77> imageshack it is!