[05:46] <nixternal> oi oi
[05:47] <n8k99> chickenboy
[05:48] <nixternal> hehe
[05:48] <n8k99> how's school going?
[05:49] <nixternal> not bad actually...I was expecting worse seeing as I am taking 3 advanced programming courses at the same time...but luckily my java instructor is stupid, so we aren't learning anything that would confuse my other studies :)
[05:49] <coreymon77> n8k99: guess what?
[05:50] <n8k99> what coreymon77
[05:50] <n8k99> that's awesome nixternal
[05:50] <coreymon77> n8k99: chicken butt!
[05:50] <n8k99> oh no!
[05:50] <nixternal> man, I have gotten addicted to Project Euler
[05:51] <n8k99> Project Euler
[05:51] <nixternal> http://projecteuler.net
[05:51] <coreymon77> sorry
[05:51] <nixternal> it is a list of 150 math questions you code out to get the answer
[05:51] <coreymon77> im just a tiny bit hyper and a tiny bit bored right now
[05:52] <coreymon77> nixternal: guess why
[05:53] <coreymon77> ?
[05:53] <daSkreech> !
[05:53] <nixternal> wasabi skreechy
[05:53] <coreymon77> nixternal: chicken pie!!!
[05:53] <daSkreech> manchicken pie!
[05:54] <nixternal> that doesn't even sound pretty
[05:54] <coreymon77> daSkreech: guess which?
[05:54] <n8k99> oh no!
[05:54] <n8k99> oh no!
[05:54] <n8k99> freeflying chicken itch?
[05:54] <coreymon77> daSkreech: chicken's bitch/shit, whichever one you like
[05:55] <coreymon77> and finally
[05:55] <coreymon77> n8k99: guess who?
[05:56] <coreymon77> n8k99: CHICKEN POO!
[05:56] <coreymon77> :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
[05:56] <coreymon77> okay
[05:56] <n8k99> thanks, no really thanks
[05:56] <coreymon77> im done
[05:56] <daSkreech> Ha ha I heard someone talking about chicken paws today
[05:56] <daSkreech> that' was funny to the end
[05:56] <coreymon77> hmm, i wonder what question word i could use there
[05:57] <coreymon77> daSkreech: you missed the first one
[05:57] <coreymon77> daSkreech: the classic
[05:57] <daSkreech> n8k99: link?
[05:57] <n8k99> i wouldn't say he _missed it_
[05:58] <coreymon77> daSkreech:guess what?
[05:58] <n8k99> http://projecteuhler.net
[05:58] <daSkreech> coreymon77: http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu.TfTO9GOTcB8wJXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTFhMm5vNXI2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA01BUDAxMV85NARsA1dTMQ--/SIG=12ennld53/EXP=1190174303/**http%3a//www.onehorseshy.com/lowbrow/guess_what_chicken_butt
[05:58] <n8k99> thanks to nixternal
[05:58] <coreymon77> daSkreech: chicken butt
[05:59] <daSkreech> coreymon77: ^^^^
[05:59] <daSkreech> n8k99: times out for me
[05:59] <coreymon77> daSkreech: is that one of those pages of "how to keep an idiot busy"
[05:59] <nixternal> n8k99: that is supposed to be http://projecteuler.net
[05:59] <n8k99> oh right thanks
[06:00] <daSkreech> coreymon77: take a look at it
[06:00] <coreymon77> daSkreech: because it keeps on going back to the same "document has moved here" page
[06:00] <coreymon77> so i take it it is
[06:00] <daSkreech> coreymon77: the link I sent you?
[06:03] <n8k99> nixternal: so how far along have you gotten with this?
[06:03] <nixternal> I am on #15 right now
[06:04] <n8k99> are you working in ordr/
[06:04] <n8k99> order?
[06:05] <nixternal> yes
[06:05] <n8k99> wow cool
[06:06] <coreymon77> daSkreech: i looked at it
[06:07] <coreymon77> it keeps on returning me to the same, this document has moved here page
[06:07] <coreymon77> and every time i click here it goes back to the same page
[06:07] <daSkreech> coreymon77: http://www.onehorseshy.com/lowbrow/guess_what_chicken_butt/
[06:08] <coreymon77> i saw
[08:50] <coreymon77> Jucato: you back?
[09:23] <mhb> Jucato: could you post the screenshot troy dcced to you?
[09:29] <mhb> good morning everyone
[09:32] <coreymon77> mhb: goodnight to you
[09:33] <mhb> coreymon77: you're awake again? :o)
[09:33] <coreymon77> mhb: isnt it interesting how timezones do that
[09:33] <coreymon77> mhb: i was just about to leave, you know, last minute checks of irc before you close it and go to bed
[09:33] <mhb> coreymon77: true, although it is a bit bothersome, especially when you want to work together with people from different TZ
[09:34] <coreymon77> no shit
[09:34] <coreymon77> anyways
[09:34] <coreymon77> goodnight
[09:34] <mhb> night coreymon77
[09:37] <_StefanS_> morning kids
[09:37] <_StefanS_> :D
[09:37] <_StefanS_> Jucato!
[09:37] <_StefanS_> why arent you sleeping ?
[09:38] <mhb> _StefanS_: how can you be sure he's not sleeping?
[09:39] <_StefanS_> my psychic powers :D
[09:39] <_StefanS_> nah he's always up late
[10:28] <sahin_w> gwenview 1.4.2 just released...
[10:28] <sahin_w> Is there any chance to include it to Gutsy?
[10:28] <mhb> sahin_w: no
[10:29] <sahin_w> mhb: Ok.
[10:35] <Jucato> mhb: http://imagepaste.nulldigital.net/viewimage.php?id=312
[10:36] <Jucato> (_Stefan_'s psychic powers were wrong... I *was* sleeping :P)
[10:37] <mhb> Jucato: my psychic powers are unrivaled :o)
[10:37] <Jucato> heheh
[10:38] <mhb> hi Hobbsee
[10:39] <mhb> Jucato: could you post the image then?
[10:39] <Jucato> post where?
[10:39] <mhb> Jucato: you have a website, don't you? Or bayimg or anywhere...
[10:39] <Jucato> that link isn't enough?
[10:40] <mhb> Jucato: he dcced it to you
[10:40] <Jucato> I couldn't receive the DCC
[10:40] <Jucato> so he just posted it in imagepaste
[10:40] <Jucato> the link to which I gave above
[10:41] <mhb> Jucato: here? I must be either blind or it happened when my connection slipped for a minute?
[10:41] <Jucato> [16:35]  <Jucato> mhb: http://imagepaste.nulldigital.net/viewimage.php?id=312
[10:41] <Jucato> it was immediately before I said something about _Stefan_'s psychic powers
[10:41] <mhb> Jucato: ah, yes
[10:42] <mhb> Jucato: I am blind
[10:42] <Jucato> apparently :)
[10:42] <Jucato> now, since I just woke up.. I'm looking for someone to eat
[10:42] <Jucato> bbl
[11:29] <Jucato> Hobbsee: you need an even bigger, pointier, and doomier stick for that :)
[11:33] <Jucato> hehe :)
[11:34] <Hobbsee> voice recognition, etc, software is only ever any good if it actually gets the correct information *across*.
[11:35] <marseillai> arfffff changelog says feisty-backport for release and not feisty
[11:45] <mhb> hmm, I've got a strange problem here - Apple MacBook brightness can be changed in Ubuntu, but cannot in Kubuntu.
[11:45] <mhb> what can I do to fix it?
[11:45] <mhb> I mean - is there someone who has knowledge of both KDE and HAL/these things?
[12:03] <huats> I am actually trying to have a lok at bug #121984
[12:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121984 in kdepim "kandy: no icon in kubuntu feisty's kde menu" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121984
[12:03] <huats> f I understood correctly the idea is to nt dupplicate stuffs... so let the icons in the kdeartwork-theme-icon package and not ship them with the kandy package...
[12:03] <huats> but the kdeartwork-theme-icon install icons in usr/share/icons/ikons/XXxXX/icons which is not a path where the icons for installed applications .. or am I missing something ?
[12:03] <huats> can anybody explain me a bit the way of processing ?
[12:43] <mhb> kwwii: I am surprised, some pretty neat stuff at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas
[12:43] <kwwii> mhb: yeah, looks like we are getting the community back on track
[12:44] <Hobbsee> ooh, i like waves.jpg there
[12:44] <Jucato> (still brown yay! :P)
[12:44] <Jucato> leather? hahah! :)
[12:45] <Jucato> brownfluid and redbrownatomspin... I like those...
[12:46] <Jucato> hey those from troy_s are good too... the solar one + the ubuntu logo would probably be nice...
[12:47] <Jucato> hey that's an idea... why not make the wallpapers use the animal metaphor too :)
[12:48] <mhb> Jucato: that's one of the reasons why I like the elephant ... it's blue, it's nice, it is African
[12:49] <kwwii> Jucato: http://meglyman.deviantart.com/art/Gutsy-Gibbon-64270409
[12:49] <testing> hola chicos
[12:49] <Jucato> kwwii: lol! hahaha
[12:49] <Jucato> roflmao
[12:49] <kwwii> hola chica
[12:49] <kwwii> Jucato: she has paintings for all the older names as wel
[12:49] <Jucato> er.. lots of clones
[12:52] <mhb> kwwii: I guess we can't make the elephant default for kubuntu, can we? :D nah, just kidding. I don't want to be Just Another Developer That Talks Into Artwork :o)
[12:53] <Jucato> and what's wrong with that? :)
[12:53] <mhb> Jucato: right, I sometimes do talk into it... but I respect The Artist
[12:54] <Jucato> you say it like you can't be both developer and artist. :)
[12:55] <mhb> Jucato: sometimes you can, unfortunately I'm not
[12:55] <Jucato> aw.. too modest :P
[12:56] <mhb> Jucato: no, really. I envy those guys that can say "oh, let's do an elephant-skin-like wallpaper" and just do it
[01:00] <mhb> kwwii: is it alright to blog about some images on the Artwork/Incoming or should I rather wait until Gutsy Final?
[01:01] <Jucato> would be nice to get all those artwork ideas up in *buntu-look.org
[01:20] <kwwii> mhb: sure, blog away :-)
[01:52] <mhb> nixternal: pokey
[01:53] <mhb> nixternal: I'd like to translate the Kubuntu Welcome Page in Firefox, where can I do that?
[02:03] <mhb> oh my, the login screen with the elephant background is so beautiful!
[02:38] <huats> sorry to insist but I might need a litlle help.... i am trying to solve  bug #121984, and I just need an answer to be sure that I am not doing something wrong .... so far all related kandy icons are included in kdeartwork-theme-icon... but inside kdeartwork-theme-icon nothing is going to install a kandy icon on /usr/share/app-install/icons ... So I was wondering if I can do just like it is...
[02:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121984 in kdepim "kandy: no icon in kubuntu feisty's kde menu" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121984
[02:38] <huats> ...done  for kpilot, i-e to provide an icon inside the kandy package... Is it correct ? I don't know since it is dupplicating icons...
[02:50] <jjesse> morning :)
[02:51] <Jucato> moin jjesse!
[02:51] <jjesse> how are you Jucato?
[02:51] <Jucato> feeling (a bit) better. thank you :)
[02:52] <jjesse> glad you are feeling (a bit) better
[02:52] <Jucato> heheh
[02:53] <mhb> hi jjesse
[02:54] <jjesse> hello mhb
[03:04] <jjesse> are there kde4 beta pacakges available for gutsy or ?
[03:04] <Jucato> !kde4
[03:04] <ubotu> KDE 4 is the next major release of the K Desktop Environment. For more information see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDE_4>. The Release Schedule is available at http://techbase.kde.org/Schedules/KDE4/4.0_Release_Schedule. Beta 2 packages can be found at http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde4-beta2.php
[03:05] <jjesse> thanks ubotu
[03:05] <jjesse> thanks Jucato
[03:05] <Jucato> hehehe :)
[03:06] <jjesse> so by default the pacakges are in gutsy then? or do i still have install kdebase-workspace?
[03:10] <Jucato> kdebase-workspace I think
[03:17] <mhb> Jucato: could you do me a favor and test if the print screen button works in kdm?
[03:18] <mhb> Jucato: because every recipe on the net I've seen (and tested) doesn't work
[03:18] <Jucato> um... from memory, I don't think it does...
[03:18] <Jucato> hold on a sec..
[03:19] <mhb> Jucato: I would assume that, but I cannot test it myself
[03:20] <Jucato> doesn't work for me. sorry
[03:31] <mhb> Jucato: nevermind, I managed to take the screenshot
[03:31] <mhb> Jucato: thanks
[03:31] <Jucato> oh. nice :)
[03:50] <viviersf> is there any plan to remove some of the unneeded "kde" menu entries ?
[03:55] <viviersf> i have entries for : input actions, keyboard, keyboard layout etc
[03:55] <viviersf> isnt it supposed to be accessed via system settings
[03:56] <Jucato> in the K menu?
[04:10] <manchicken> So there seems to have been a decision made to put enabled compiz on Ubuntu by default, and I'm wondering if a similar decision has been made with Kubuntu.
[04:11] <Jucato> enabled? O.o
[04:11] <viviersf> Jucato, well i get them in gnome on my other pc :(
[04:11] <viviersf> but gnome and kde acts the same to those :(
[04:11] <viviersf> hold
[04:11] <viviersf> maby its my fault
[04:11] <Hobbsee> manchicken: pft.
[04:11] <manchicken> I don't know about how well compiz works for Ubuntu, but it doesn't seem to be quite there yet for Kubuntu.  I get the feeling that compiz folks will be waiting for KDE4 before working too much with KDE, which I think is kinda to their detriment.
[04:11] <Hobbsee> manchicken: we like our cds stable, thanks.
[04:11] <Jucato> viviersf: you are seeing these menu items in GNOME's menu?
[04:12] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Well if compiz folks were actually focusing on KDE3 stability, I'm sure it'd be much better.
[04:12] <Hobbsee> manchicken: kde4 has composite, so...
[04:12] <Hobbsee> manchicken: oh, true.  but they dont, so...
[04:13] <manchicken> Hobbsee: Well I'd also like every GNOME user who uses compiz that claims KDE has hard-to-use configs to now stand up and apologize, as compiz is ridiculously difficult to configure.
[04:13] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:13] <viviersf> Jucato, yes, and i just checked the .desktop files and they are set to show :(
[04:13] <manchicken> I used it for a while, and it does seem mostly stable.
[04:13] <Hobbsee> yeah.  it's a sort of kde + gconf scenario, which makes it a pain
[04:13] <manchicken> I stopped using it for its glaring omissions of functionality more than its stability.
[04:13] <manchicken> This concept of "viewports" needs to be done away with.
[04:14] <manchicken> We've already got virtual desktops.  We should stick with what is already there and what is already supported.
[04:14] <Jucato> btw, "workspaces" = GNOME's virtual desktops... but the whole workspace -> viewport -> virtual desktop mess is what's driving me against compiz/beryl
[04:15] <Jucato> but in Compiz+GNOME I think viewport and workspace work together, 1 workspace = 1 viewport. not so with KDE
[04:16] <manchicken> Jucato: Really?  I was under the impression that a viewport was its own thing entirely.
[04:16] <manchicken> Jucato: It makes more sense if what you say is the case.
[04:16] <bddebian> Heya
[04:17] <Jucato> in KDE I think it was 1 viewport = 4 virtual desktops... so if you had 4 viewports (since you'd think they translate to virtual desktops) you'd have 16 of those things...
[04:17] <Jucato> but still 4 viewports/faces of the cube..
[04:17] <Jucato> it's a bit confusing iirc...
[04:22] <manchicken> Jucato: No, in KDE 1 viewport is independent of desktops.  You can have 8 viewports if you like.
[04:22] <manchicken> It's X number of viewports on N number of desktops.  Each desktop has X number of viewports.
[04:22] <manchicken> And it makes no freaking sense.
[04:22] <Jucato> or something like that :)
[04:22] <manchicken> compiz won't manage the virtual desktops.
[04:22] <manchicken> Just the viewports.
[04:23] <manchicken> It needs to just get rid of viewports and stick with virtual desktops.
[04:23] <Jucato> neither does beryl afaik...
[04:23] <manchicken> I think Beryl is being abandoned.
[04:23] <manchicken> It's "compiz-fusion" now.
[04:23] <Hobbsee> manchicken: they merged, rather than abandoning
[04:23] <Jucato> hehe same banana :)
[04:24] <Jucato> they both don't "Just work" with KDE
[04:24] <Hobbsee> true.  but the fire is cool!
[04:24] <manchicken> And compiz-fusion lacks some very nice functionality that kwin has that I'm just not happy to give up.
[04:24] <manchicken> Hobbsee: For about 10 minutes :)
[04:24] <Hobbsee> manchicken: for longer than taht :P
[04:24] <manchicken> Hobbsee: And then again when you're showing it to someone else :)
[04:27] <marseillai_> Riddell: is there a way to build kde4base for feisty on PPA? if i set release in changelog to feisty it fails with build dependency missing. and if I set release to feisty-changelog it fails due to "PPA uploads must be for the RELEASE pocket." So my question is : How did you do to make it build????
[04:28] <Hobbsee> marseillai_: i thought i said to ask cprov that?
[04:28] <manchicken> I wish KDE4 were in a state where I could start using it more extensively.
[04:28] <Hobbsee> marseillai_: he would have uploaded it as feisty to ppa, had it all build there, and reuploaded it with proper versioning to feisty-backports, i expect
[04:28] <Jucato> maybe beta3 manchicken...
[04:29] <Jucato> but most devs are able to use the basics I think... running a full KDE 4 session...
[04:29] <marseillai_> Hobbsee: it doesn't build with feisty
[04:29] <Hobbsee> marseillai_: he would have uplaoded the other stuff it requires to the ppa too
[04:59] <Riddell> marseillai_: it's annoying, you need to upload all the dependencies to the ppa too
[04:59] <Riddell> look at the kubuntu-members one maybe
[04:59] <Riddell> hola jjesse_
[04:59] <Riddell> no
[04:59] <Riddell> hola Jucato
[04:59] <marseillai_> ah oki Riddell
[04:59] <jjesse> holla
[04:59] <Jucato> Riddell: someone was advertising you in #kubuntu earlier. you were giving a talk on packaging? :)
[05:00] <Riddell> marseillai_: you can't use feisty-backports with PPA, which is quite hard
[05:00] <marseillai_> yes i've just see that
[05:00] <Riddell> Jucato: yes, I've been talking all morning, my throat is very soar
[05:00] <Jucato> ouch... yeah that's nasty....
[05:01] <nixternal> mhb: hrmm, you know what...I think I need to do a quick fix to the ff frontpage. I will check it when I get home, make the necessary update, and then send the .html file up to the translators mailing list to get translated if it hasn't been done already
[05:01] <nixternal> I totally forgot about the ff front page
[05:03] <Riddell> nixternal: s/feisty/gutsy/ ?
[05:04] <nixternal> exactly
[05:05] <nixternal> that is a quick fix really, and doesn't mess with pot files...the html gets manually translated anyways, so we will be fine with that
[05:05] <nixternal> won't even require a new package at this time, which is good
[05:06] <Riddell> ideally that could be done at compile time
[05:07] <Riddell> ooh, spanish politicians
[05:10] <nixternal> hehe
[05:10] <nixternal> bbiab...lab time
[05:31] <jjesse> hVe fun in lab
[05:59] <Riddell> nixternal: do you have comments on Foundations of Qt book?  I need to write a review
[06:03] <Riddell> Jucato: which one is that?
[06:03] <Jucato> the Trolltech one
[06:03] <Jucato> C++ GUI Programming with Qt 4
[06:04] <Jucato> (the relatively older Qt 4 book, which I just bought last month :P)
[06:34] <manchicken> Ooh, I might snag that book.
[06:34] <manchicken> Riddell: Were you present when mhb and I were talking about adept the other day?
[06:36] <Riddell> manchicken: don't think so
[06:37] <manchicken> Riddell: We were waxing philosophical about how adept seems to be having trouble keeping up with our needs, and how it might be a neat idea to start keeping our eyes open for something that might work better while still working Adept as best we can.
[06:38] <manchicken> I think the big thing we both agreed on is that we would like to see something like update-manager for Kubuntu.
[06:39] <Riddell> sure, if a kde 4 port of adept doesn't appear soonish that'll be a necessity anyway
[06:40] <Riddell> but it needs pykde 4 with embedded konsole first
[06:40] <Riddell> (pykde 4 is in svn now if anyone wants to try it out)
[06:41] <manchicken> Well I'm not sure if we really should do too much waiting.
[06:41] <manchicken> Adept is so complicated for folks to maintain that it's simply not being maintained like it really needs to be.
[06:42] <Riddell> it's blocked on pykde is all
[06:42] <manchicken> Every time I need to do something in it it's like 4 hours to figure out where I need to make the change, and then a loop of 5 minutes to make my change, 5 minutes to build and then another hour to determine why it crashed.  That goes on for 3 or 4 tries, and then I put out a patch.
[06:43] <manchicken> Not to mention that it took me several days to figure out how it worked the first time around.
[06:43] <manchicken> We also need some documentation for libapt, libept, and the other libs involved.
[06:44] <Riddell> I suspect python-apt isn't much better documented
[06:44] <manchicken> Because libapt is a freakin' maze of confusion with no sign of error handling.
[06:44] <manchicken> I don't think it is either.
[06:45] <manchicken> mvo is the living breathing documentation, and not much else is known outside his head or the folks who directly work on it.
[06:45] <manchicken> Source code is great, but it's no substitute for well-done documentation.
[06:45] <manchicken> Qt docs and KDE docs are incredible, and it saves me so much time to be able to go there rather than swim in header files.
[06:46] <Riddell> nixternal: http://dot.kde.org/1189517663/ comments welcome (not published yet)
[06:47] <Riddell> totally
[06:48] <manchicken> Riddell: So what's the story behind kynaptic?
[06:49] <Riddell> it's crap and we stopped using if after hoary?
[06:49] <manchicken> heh
[06:49] <manchicken> Nice.
[06:49] <Riddell> they're unrelated
[06:49] <Jucato> whatever happened to Smart PM btw?
[06:49] <Riddell> nobody seems too interested in changing away from apt (or rpm for other distros)
[06:50] <Jucato> heh :)
[06:50] <manchicken> I used to use smart with SuSE.  I didn't much care for it.
[06:50] <Jucato> ah kapture -> adept iirc!
[06:51] <Riddell> that's the one
[06:51] <mendred> hi Riddell a question..why must kubuntu have kdefied versions of the tools that ubuntu uses? Can't it merely reuse the same ones?
[06:51] <Riddell> mendred: because we're a KDE distro
[06:52] <Jucato> :)
[06:52] <Riddell> for the most part the tools do share backends, just different GUI parts
[06:52] <Jucato> and we're trying not to depend too much on gnome/gtk libs right?
[06:52] <Riddell> yes
[06:52] <Riddell> skim and amarok let us down there
[06:52] <Jucato> hehe
[06:53] <Jucato> gtkpod is unchallenged I guess :)
[06:53] <Riddell> libgpod yes
[06:53] <manchicken> Riddell: Oh, does amarok use libgpod?
[06:53] <Riddell> yes
[06:53] <manchicken> Didn't know.
[06:53] <manchicken> Is that GTK or just glib?
[06:53] <Riddell> which uses gdk for something and that's part of our gtk package
[06:53] <manchicken> Ah.
[06:53] <manchicken> Gotcha.
[06:54] <Jucato> oh libgpod hehe too much gtk in my head lol
[06:56] <manchicken> Err http://us.archive.ubuntu.com gutsy/main dpkg 1.14.5ubuntu13
[06:56] <manchicken>   403 Forbidden [IP: 91.189.89.6 80] 
[06:56] <manchicken> Neato
[06:57] <Riddell> deliberate
[06:57] <manchicken> Oh?
[06:57] <Hobbsee> Riddell: yes.  -devel
[06:57] <Riddell> that version of dpkg caused a segfault
[06:57] <manchicken> Naughty.
[06:57] <manchicken> Ooh
[06:57] <manchicken> Oh, BTW, I've talked with System76, they haven't even put Gutsy on any of their machines for official testing yet.
[06:57] <manchicken> That kinda... scares me.
[06:58] <Riddell> mm, companies like that should be part of the QA process
[06:58] <manchicken> My CD drive doesn't work...
[06:58] <Riddell> erk
[06:58] <manchicken> Riddell: My thoughts exactly.
[06:58] <manchicken> I've even gone to great lengths to tell them that I'd be happy to do some testing for them.
[06:59] <manchicken> Zero interest.
[06:59] <manchicken> My suspicion is that they're just completely short-staffed, and not yet making enough money to allow them to afford more folks to help with testing.
[07:01] <Jucato> and good morning to Hobbsee
[07:01] <Hobbsee> hi Jucato :P
[07:01] <Jucato> hehehe didn't sleep again?
[07:01] <Hobbsee> i'm going to sleep soon
[07:01] <Jucato> and wake up even sooner? :)
[07:02] <Jucato> ooh it's raining! gonna have a nice cold comfy sleep. :)
[07:02] <Hobbsee> hmm.. good question
[07:31] <Nightrose> manchicken: wrt jamendo support for amarok - it is being worked on/pretty much ready in 2.0 if you didn't know this already
[07:52] <n8k99> nixternal: thanks!
[07:55] <manchicken> Nightrose: Yeah, it's just not there yet.  I'm impatient :)
[07:56] <Nightrose> ;-)
[07:57] <manchicken> Nightrose: Is the jamendo support specifically Jamendo, or is there some sort of new mechanism for integrating with online music services?
[07:58] <manchicken> Hopefully it'd be nice and generic so that we could also integrate places like artistserver.com, too.
[07:58] <Nightrose> nikolaj is working on a framework so that it will be easy to add more stuff like that
[07:58] <Nightrose> he has a focus on magnatune though since they hired him
[07:58] <manchicken> Okay, but the jamendo stuff is its own thing?
[07:58] <mhb> http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8707/kdmshotsj9.png
[07:59] <mhb> beautiful, right?
[07:59] <manchicken> mhb: Ooh, very tigert.
[07:59] <Nightrose> no it is written on top of the framework
[07:59] <manchicken> Nightrose: Yay!
[07:59] <Nightrose> ;-)
[07:59] <manchicken> I have a feeling that as the music industry gets more and more hostile and crappy, we'll see more and more sites like that.
[08:00] <Nightrose> jep
[08:00] <Nightrose> and hopefully one day they will get it (TM)
[08:00] <manchicken> Now all they need is a more standardized interface.  Is it like a SOAP interface, or do you know?
[08:01] <mhb> manchicken: I've fallen in love with it ... because it has a natural touch to it (elephant skin) and it's blue
[08:01] <Nightrose> sorry no idea about the exact details but you can ask nikolaj if you want -> nhnfreespirit
[08:01] <manchicken> righto
[08:01] <mhb> also, I think the glass in kdm is better with such a dark bg
[08:02] <manchicken> mhb: I would prefer leaves or rocks or something to an animal skin.  I think the animal skin thing might offend some folks.
[08:02] <manchicken> We live in an age where you get doused with red paint for wearing fur coats.
[08:02] <mhb> manchicken: yeah, but this animal is not dead, you know
[08:04] <mhb> no animals were harmed during the editing of this picture
[08:04] <manchicken> Yes, I know.
[08:05] <manchicken> heh
[08:05] <manchicken> I'm not knocking it, I just don't want to offend someone on that level, ya know?
[08:06] <marseillai> Riddell: i've test dolphin with tab and if there is still some features missing it's pretty cool! there is two button to remove and you don't see the diffrence with a "normal" dolphin until you use tab. i've build it on my computer and it work but i've not been able to insert it in kde4base existing package (don't know why but the patch don't apply cdbs don't see him) so are you interest by this patch ?
[08:06] <manchicken> marseillai: Isn't Dolphin nice?
[08:07] <marseillai> without tab? les than with!
[08:07] <Riddell> marseillai: I don't have time to do anything with it now, if it works and is ready to upload and doesn't need maintenance I can upload it
[08:07] <mhb> Riddell: I would still oppose uploading it
[08:07] <marseillai> it's not ready at all but i'll continue to work on it
[08:08] <marseillai> mhb: can i send it to you? you test it and make your point of view?
[08:08] <mhb> doing so would displease KDE folks, and they're pretty tense with us already. Well, technicallly speaking, they don't have many friends :o)
[08:08] <ScottK> mhb: Why would they be upset?
[08:09] <mhb> marseillai: I'm not really against it when it comes to the technical level. I actually am kind of inclined to have tabs in Dolphin.
[08:10] <mhb> ScottK: there were several flamewars about that. Basically, some KDE folks think Dolphin should be simple, which means no tabs.
[08:10] <mhb> ScottK: Konqueror should be for those who need tabs, that's the official explanation.
[08:10] <manchicken> mhb: I don't want to piss the KDE folks off, but I think we should make changes that we think are necessary.  They don't have to include things if they don't want to, but we're maintaining Kubuntu, not KDE.
[08:10] <marseillai> mhb: the problem is : the dev don't want it, and if no one take the risk to offer it to user or to test it he will never has his chance. We could at least make another package name dolphin-tab or else ?
[08:10] <ScottK> Sounds like someone needs to switch to Gnome if you ask me.
[08:11] <manchicken> heh
[08:11] <mhb> ScottK: I don't really take sides at this. I think making KDE folks angry with Kubuntu might do more harm than having tabs as default.
[08:11] <ScottK> Agreed.
[08:11] <ScottK> There's a balance here.
[08:11] <mhb> marseillai: if you want, I can do a PPA of Dolphin-tabs tomorrow morning.
[08:12] <marseillai> mhb: i'm trying since two days! :D
[08:13] <marseillai> in gutsy the patch don't apply and i don't know why (cdbs don't see him) and ppa don't want to build it for feisty a build-dep is missing
[08:14] <mhb> marseillai: send me the patch and I will try.
[08:14] <mhb> tomorrow
[08:18] <mhb> marseillai: stalled. Perhaps you can pastebin it?
[08:20] <marseillai> mhb: http://pastebin.fr/232
[08:22] <mhb> thanks
[08:22] <mhb> marseillai: it is qt3 dolphin, right?
[08:22] <marseillai> no
[08:22] <mhb> marseillai: so the KDE4 one?
[08:22] <marseillai> a kde4 dolphin mhb
[08:23] <mhb> ah, okay.
[08:23] <marseillai> dolphin not d3lphin
[08:23] <mhb> no problem.
[08:42] <jjesse> whats the difference between d3lphin and dolphin?
[08:42] <Riddell> d3lphin is a fork of the KDE 3 version of dolphin
[08:42] <Riddell> (we just package it as dolphin)
[08:43] <jjesse> so is d3lphin the kde4 version?
[08:43] <Riddell> no, it's a fork of the KDE 3 version
[08:46] <jjesse> oh ok, thanks sorry trying to understand
[08:48] <Riddell> dolphin guy stopped developing the KDE 3 version to work on the KDE 4 version so d3lphin is someone else continuing it
[08:49] <jjesse> oh interseting, learned somethng new today
[08:52] <Kuhrscher> nixternal: Any progress on the translators credit patch for kdelibs?
[08:55] <ScottK> Anyone on Gutsy have a moment to test something for me?
[08:56] <ScottK> mhb: How about you?
[08:56] <Riddell> Kuhrscher: no volunteers yet
[08:58] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: I thought nixternal wanted to have a look at this?
[08:58] <jjesse> ScottK: sure i have a gutsy vm if that is fine w/ u
[08:58] <ScottK> Should work.
[08:58] <ScottK> jjesse: FIre up kdepim and find a something with a hyper link in it.
[08:59] <ScottK> jjesse: Then right-click and open it in a new window.
[08:59] <ScottK> jjesse: Does Konqueror open for you?
[08:59] <mhb> Kuhrscher: well, I've spoken to troy about this.
[09:00] <mhb> Kuhrscher: and I agree with him - is there really a need to translate something downstream and get credit for it?
[09:00] <Riddell> mhb: did you give doko a summary of soc?
[09:00] <Kuhrscher> mhb: I my very own eyes? No.
[09:01] <mhb> Kuhrscher: downstream KDE translations should be QA, not really main translation work.
[09:01] <jjesse> ScottK: no konqi did not open for me
[09:01] <mhb> Riddell: doh!
[09:01] <ScottK> jjesse: What happened?
[09:01] <jjesse> ScottK: i do have some updates so let me finish those and see if fixes it
[09:01] <jjesse> ScottK: i got a crash
[09:01] <Kuhrscher> mhb: But atm these launchpad translators overwrite and uglify the upstream translators.
[09:01] <Kuhrscher> mhb: That's the issue.
[09:01] <mhb> Riddell: I'll do it in an hour or so, sorry about this.
[09:02] <ScottK> jjesse: I don't get a crash, I just get an endless stream of kfmclient processing trying to start Konqueror.
[09:02] <ScottK> mhb: Would you please try too?
[09:02] <jjesse> ScottK: hmm like i said i have updaqtes pending let me finish those :)
[09:02] <ScottK> jjesse: Right.  I've had this for some time, so I doubt that will affect things, but you should update.
[09:03] <Kuhrscher> mhb.: For me it would be ok, to have just the upstream translators in the credits. But if we really want to add the launchpad translators too - as we do atm - we have to do it without harming the upstream translators credits.
[09:04] <mhb> ScottK: kdepim means what? It seems to work in kmail.
[09:04] <ScottK> Hmm
[09:04] <ScottK> Doesn't work for me for anything.
[09:04] <mhb> ScottK: I opened a link from an email, and konqueror was there.
[09:04] <mhb> ScottK: or should I do that differently?
[09:05] <ScottK> mhb: Did you open it in an external windwo?
[09:05] <ScottK> window even
[09:05] <mhb> ScottK: well, I didn't have any other choice, there was just "Open Link" which meant new window.
[09:05] <ScottK> OK.
[09:05] <mhb> Open URL, to be exact
[09:06] <ScottK> How about in Akregator?
[09:06] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Btw. who is Troy?
[09:06] <ScottK> Well that fails for me (Kmail open url)
[09:07] <ScottK> I get an endless stream of kfmclient processes trying to start Konqui and failing.
[09:07] <ScottK> Any suggestions then on how to fix that?
[09:08] <mhb> ScottK: I don't get this. Open Link in External Browser -> works.
[09:08] <ScottK> OK.
[09:08] <ScottK> Must be just me is "special".
[09:08] <ScottK> Gah.
[09:08] <mhb> ScottK: did you try a fresh user?
[09:08] <ScottK> No.  That's a good idea.  I'll try that next.
[09:14] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: Couldn't we remove the launchpad translators from the translator credits until we have a fix for kdelibs?
[09:14] <Riddell> Kuhrscher: how?
[09:15] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: They got implemented by Launchpad, so it should be easy to remove them this way too?
[09:15] <Riddell> it would need changes in rosetta, and it would need to act differently on kde .po files (and it has no way of knowing what a kde .po file is)
[09:15] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: I think Rosetta is able to differnciate between gnome and kde apps.
[09:17] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: For kde apps, the launchpad translators are just "name + mail address" for gnome apps they consist in "name + launchpad account" since Gnome is able to handle urls in the translator credits.
[09:17] <ScottK> mhb: Thanks.  Works fine in a new user.  I'll get it sorted.
[09:21] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: Is this just my subjective and more and more disappointed impression or have i18n issues in general a very low priority for Kubuntu?
[09:22] <Kuhrscher> Sorry, I don't wanted to sound harsh ...
[09:22] <Riddell> Kuhrscher: i18n in general is pretty important (although I often miss problems being an English speaker), this paticular issue doesn't seem like the largest of our worries for gutsy though
[09:23] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: No but there are much more i18n issues out there no one cares about...
[09:24] <Riddell> there are a lot more bugs out there :)
[09:25] <Kuhrscher> I know, but is it really necessary that for example the adept translation is broken since this app exists?
[09:25] <Riddell> hmm, it should be fixed long since
[09:26] <Kuhrscher> yes, but it isn't
[09:26] <Kuhrscher> or just in parts
[09:26] <Riddell> what's wrong with it?
[09:26] <Kuhrscher> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/47181
[09:27] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 47181 in adept "broken localisation support" [Medium,Confirmed] 
[09:28] <Kuhrscher> And of course also: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/102773
[09:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 102773 in software-properties "l10n broken in the KDE frontend" [Medium,Confirmed] 
[09:30] <Kuhrscher> I know that there are a lot of bugs out there and I know that there are not that much developers working on Kubuntu, but I get so many complaints about the same i18n issues again and again in the german community forum...
[09:31] <Riddell> fair point
[09:33] <Riddell> but yes, not enough developers
[09:33] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: If you wan't I could create a list of the most annoying i18n issues...
[09:34] <Riddell> that might help
[09:34] <Riddell> add a tag maybe
[09:34] <Kuhrscher> which kind of tag?
[09:35] <Riddell> a launchpad bug tag
[09:35] <Kuhrscher> does launchpad support something like "meta bugs"?
[09:35] <Riddell> no
[09:35] <Riddell> tags are the way
[09:35] <ScottK> Apparently metabugs are not needed.
[09:37] <Kuhrscher> And how do I tag a bug?
[09:38] <Riddell> "Edit description/tags"
[09:38] <Riddell> hmm, maybe only people in the bug teams can do that
[09:40] <Kuhrscher> Hmm, I set the tag kubuntu-i18n to a bug? Is that right?
[09:40] <Riddell> which bug?
[09:40] <Kuhrscher> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/102773
[09:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 102773 in software-properties "l10n broken in the KDE frontend" [Medium,Confirmed] 
[09:41] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: Really? Just compliling OOorg atm, but that would be worth stopping it ;-)
[09:42] <Riddell> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=New&field.status%3Alist=Incomplete&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.status_upstream-empty-marker=1&field.omit_dupes.u
[09:42] <Riddell> ouch
[09:42] <Riddell> however, it works :)
[09:42] <Riddell> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-properties/+bugs?field.tag=kubuntu-i18n
[09:42] <Riddell> or without edge
[09:44] <Kuhrscher> Riddell: Ok, I will tag the most frequent reported bugs like this
[09:55] <mluser-work> what is the name of the restricted drivers utility, and where can I find it on the menu's?
[09:58] <Riddell> mluser-work: restricted-manager-kde and it's in system settings
[09:58] <Riddell> hmm, someone doing kde4libs updates in ppa https://edge.launchpad.net/~andres-j-new/+archive
[10:08] <mhb> Kuhrscher: troy unrau, never heard of him?
[10:09] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Yes I heard of him ;-)
[10:09] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Do you have a second?
[10:10] <mhb> Kuhrscher: I'm listening
[10:11] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Do you know the problem around this translator credits?
[10:12] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Or better have you seen the translator credits in Gutsy atm?
[10:13] <mhb> yes. Launchpad wants to put them somewhere, but they look ugly in that dialog. Also, there are lots of dupe names there.
[10:14] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Yes, and they add it even if the mail adress is missing, and they add all the guys woh just added an unused suggestion...
[10:15] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Personally I don't think that it is necessary to add the downstream translators at all ( I'm alsa a downstream translator). But if we really have to do it, we should do it in a way which doesn't involves the upstream translator credits.
[10:16] <mhb> Kuhrscher: right. The problem is, I do not like the idea of having KDE patches just to fix Launchpad problems.
[10:17] <mhb> Kuhrscher: that's the problem with closed-source ... we cannot fix it at the right place :(
[10:17] <Kuhrscher> mhb: I totally agree, what else could we do?
[10:17] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Do you want to leave the credits broken?
[10:18] <Kuhrscher> mhb: We already patch kdelibs to add some comment about launchpad... Would it really harm if we patch it some more just to keep the old appearance?
[10:19] <mhb> Kuhrscher: I'd say yes, but you wouldn't want that, would you? :o)
[10:20] <mhb> Kuhrscher: to be honest, I am unhappy about the amount of kdelibs patches we currently have
[10:20] <coreymon77> hey guys, do any of you know about connecting to my kubuntu box from my macbook (in order to get some files
[10:20] <coreymon77> )
[10:20] <Kuhrscher> mhb: In general I totally agree...
[10:21] <mhb> coreymon77: ssh or samba works well
[10:21] <mhb> coreymon77: also, there is a neat applet that acts as a tiny web server
[10:21] <Kuhrscher> mhb: But the actual situation is ugly and annoying for the upstream translators
[10:21] <mhb> coreymon77: in Kubuntu
[10:21] <Kuhrscher> mhb: so if you have a better idea?
[10:21] <coreymon77> mhb: what do i have to do to set that up?
[10:23] <mhb> Kuhrscher: are the names of upstream translators above the downstreamers?
[10:23] <coreymon77> mhb: what do i do on the kubuntu box to set that up?
[10:23] <Kuhrscher> I think so. I suggested a hack for launchpad without changing kdelibs at the related bug.
[10:24] <Kuhrscher> mhb: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/133817
[10:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 133817 in rosetta "Make KDE translation credits nicer" [Medium,Fix committed] 
[10:24] <mhb> coreymon77: Kicker -> Add Applet -> Public File Server
[10:26] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Btw I just tagged the most annoying i18n bugs I remembered spontaniously with "kubuntu-i18n"
[10:26] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Feel free to add this tag to more bugs you know...
[10:27] <Kuhrscher> mhb: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=kubuntu-i18n
[10:27] <mhb> Kuhrscher: thanks, will do.
[10:28] <coreymon77> mhb: so, i created the file server
[10:29] <coreymon77> how do i connect?
[10:29] <mhb> coreymon77: hmm, I think it is explained there somewhere
[10:29] <coreymon77> mhb: io address?
[10:30] <coreymon77> ip*
[10:30] <mhb> coreymon77: it opens the web server on an exotic port, so it's 128.1.1.200:1234, where 1234 is the port number
[10:30] <mhb> and the first part is IP, yes
[10:30] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Since Danilos told me that it would be possible to handle the translator credit as proposed in the bug, I don't really beleave that Rosetta cannot see if a package belongs to kde or not. An if it is possible to see this, we could switch off the addition of the launchpad translators and "suggestors" for the KDE apps too...
[10:31] <Kuhrscher> mhb: At least until we have a better solution for this issue.
[10:32] <mhb> Kuhrscher: I guess that's a good approach. However, I cannot edit Launchpad to do this, you have to bug the Canonical employees who can :o)
[10:33] <Kuhrscher> mhb: I could do this, but it would be nice if you could support me with bugging them :-)
[10:34] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Just to have a chance...
[10:34] <ScottK> Kuhrscher: #launchpad
[10:35] <coreymon77> mhb: ip address as in the 192.168.1.x thing?
[10:35] <Kuhrscher> ScottK: I fear carlos and Danilos are sleeping...
[10:35] <mhb> Kuhrscher: I bug them about a ton of things (last time about the plural forms) ... :o) I also think it is finally up to them if they would implement it or not. Community members cannot force them.
[10:35] <coreymon77> mhb: im also having problems getting nfs installed on the kubuntu box in the first place
[10:35] <coreymon77> mhb: help me out with that
[10:35] <mhb> coreymon77: right, that is IP.
[10:36] <mhb> coreymon77: if you want to access the server, you have to specify the port
[10:36] <mhb> coreymon77: so you write something like http://192.168.1.3:8001/
[10:37] <mhb> coreymon77: the "listen port" is one part of the "New server" dialog, you must have noticed that while clicking "Next".
[10:37] <coreymon77> i know
[10:37] <mhb> Default port is 8001.
[10:37] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Yes, but I'm resignating more and more...
[10:37] <coreymon77> mhb: it wot connect
[10:37] <Kuhrscher> mhb: At least any progess on the plural issue?
[10:38] <coreymon77> mhb: wont*
[10:38] <mhb> Kuhrscher: yes.
[10:38] <mhb> Kuhrscher: but Riddell has to do a kde-i18n sync with upstream after LP 1.1.9 rolls out.
[10:39] <mhb> Kuhrscher: but he said yes, so I hope he will manage to do that.
[10:39] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Nice. And all the apps not included in kde-i18n?
[10:39] <Kuhrscher> mhb: Amarok, kaffeine, koffice...
[10:39] <mhb> Kuhrscher: not sure.
[10:39] <coreymon77> mhb: what is the fastest easiest way to do it
[10:39] <Kuhrscher> mhb: We don't even get the desktop-* files for these apps..
[10:40] <coreymon77> smb, ssh, ftp, nfs?
[10:40] <mhb> coreymon77: ssh
[10:40] <mhb> coreymon77: that's the easiest to set up. You'll have to find a good file transfer utility for OS X.
[10:40] <coreymon77> mhb: okay, how do i do that
[10:41] <coreymon77> mhb: finder?
[10:41] <mhb> coreymon77: just install openssh-server.
[10:41] <coreymon77> mhb: cant finder do it?
[10:41] <mhb> coreymon77: I'm not sure if finder can do ssh. Ask him :o)
[10:41] <Kuhrscher> mhb: And I just translated some of these plural strings for the kdepim-enterprise-branche... They don't even exist upstream (for kde3)
[10:45] <nixternal> Riddell: the foundations book is great. truthfully, I think Danimo's is about a notch or 2 better, but it is still a great book...I have gone through it once, and am going through it again...concentrating a bit on Part 2
[10:45] <coreymon77> mhb: ive got an idea
[10:45] <coreymon77> mhb: setting it up is easy on the mac
[10:45] <nixternal> Riddell: that write is up very precise though, well written
[10:45] <coreymon77> so
[10:45] <coreymon77> how about i set up ssh on the mac and then you tell me some good transfer sevices i can use on kubuntu
[10:45] <nixternal> also, the translation tabs, I think mhb had a convo with KDE devs about that as well..mhb?
[10:46] <coreymon77> mhb: or should i just use samba
[10:48] <coreymon77> mhb: can kubuntu use appletalk
[10:48] <coreymon77> ???
[10:49] <mhb> coreymon77: no, I don't think so :o)
[10:49] <nixternal> yes it can
[10:49] <mhb> ah, sorry then.
[10:49] <mhb> my bad
[10:49] <nixternal> my brother in laws shop is a mac shop and a couple of people there are linux people
[10:50] <nixternal> I believe it is built into the kernel, you may need the *netatalk* module/package (I think that is what it is called)
[10:50] <mhb> coreymon77: I am sorry, I don't have much time to answer questions now, feel free to ask someone else (especially at the #kubuntu channel designed for questions).
[10:50] <nixternal> oh well
[10:50] <mhb> indeed.
[10:50] <nixternal> lol
[10:51] <coreymon77> sorry bout that, lost my connection
[10:51] <coreymon77> so
[10:51] <coreymon77> can kubuntu use appletalk?
[10:56] <Kuhrscher> mhb, nixternal: Ok, have a good night... We will see if anything changes regarding the i18n issues in the future. Bye.
[10:56] <mhb> coreymon77: 22:52 < nixternal> I believe it is built into the kernel, you may need the *netatalk* module/package (I think that is what it is called)
[11:00] <mluser-work> Riddell: thanks
[11:03] <coreymon77> nixternal: mhb: i works!
[11:03] <mhb> coreymon77: thank nixternal
[11:19] <mhb> oh yes, I have invaded the planet.ubuntu.com top page yet again :o)
[11:35] <mhb> Riddell: added myself to the ubuntu SoC wiki page (what doko needed)