[12:35] <unggnu> hi all
[12:36] <unggnu> I have made a debdiff for Bug # 136380 so it should be no problem to fix this issue or is there anything wrong with it?
[12:36] <unggnu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/acpi-support/+bug/136380
[12:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 136380 in acpi-support "[Gutsy]  sonybright.sh doesn't use the correct value range" [Undecided,New] 
[12:40] <vas> hey I wanna write a program which interprets commands entered through the terminal viually... where would I start with this
[12:40] <vas> I have previous programming experience, java n php
[12:41] <vas> anyone
[12:47] <Mez> vas, it's not really a channel here for learning to program, it's for the ubuntu developers, can I suggest joining a channel to do with the language you lpan to program in ;)
[12:47] <vas> yes
[12:47] <vas> i come here with that question
[12:47] <vas> ubuntu channel reffered me here
[12:48] <vas> what channel should I program in
[12:48] <Mez> vas, apologies... you shouldnt have been. While this channel is full of developers, they're focused on developing ubuntu
[12:48] <Mez> vas, depends on what language you want to program in.
[12:48] <vas> o
[12:48] <vas> nvm then i gess
[12:48] <vas> hey where do u find out about this stuff ne ways
[12:48] <vas> like programming linux kernel
[12:49] <vas> just out of curiosity
[12:49] <vas> where would one begin learning bout this
[12:49] <vas> i mean idt u woke up one day w/ infinite linux knowledge in ur brain
[12:53] <Mez> I played, i googled, I did things :D
[12:53] <Mez> I learnt to program, went to uni, etc etc
[12:54] <frostburn> nothing beats experience by playing, but it can get frustrating without a little guidance
[12:55] <vas> true true, but frostburn say my future goal is to be be a developer for linux, im 16 now but 20's i hope to be contributing to the project as a whole in my 20's
[12:56] <frostburn> vas, to be honest, do a gentoo install, you'll learn so much about the linux architecture and compiling.
[12:56] <frostburn> you also might want to check out http://lecturefox.com
[12:56] <vas> any reading you could suggest, ubuntu is termporary, it is my first linux OS I have running
[01:06] <DShepherd> what version of compiz will be in gutsy? 0.5.2?
[01:09] <Mez> frostburn, if you want to learn about linux, so a LFS install... gentoo teaches you nada
[01:10] <frostburn> gentoo docs are better =P  oh yeah, forgot they don't support stage 1 installs anymore
[03:12] <fabbione> Preparing to replace cupsys 1.3.0-3ubuntu1 (using .../cupsys_1.3.0-4ubuntu4_i386.deb) ...
[03:12] <fabbione> /usr/share/omf/windows/windows-C.omf:8: parser error : Entity 'rsquo' not defined
[03:12] <fabbione>     <title>If you&rsquo;ve been using Windows</title>
[03:21] <bddebian> Nice one
[05:11] <keescook> using the python apt_pkg, how do I tell which release a given source package comes from?
[05:13] <ajmitch> sigh, been too long since I was digging into python-apt
[05:14] <ajmitch> oh, I may have a patch that may do the right thing with passwd for samba :)
[05:15] <ajmitch> want to eyeball it & tell me what's wrong before I go building & testing?
[05:17] <sbalneav> Quick question: I'm trying to debug Bug #140051  I've installed the xserver-xorg-driver-amd-dbg package, but I'm still only getting a hex address in the dump from xorg, with no indication as to what routine it dies in.  Any ideas as to how I might at least narrow it down to a subroutine within the driver?
[05:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 140051 in xserver-xorg-video-amd "amd driver fails to autoconfigure" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140051
[06:11] <imtrying> i have to spent a lot of time learning three languages (bash ,makefile,vim,c++) to write c++ program on unix.:(
[06:14] <sbalneav> imtrying: Shouldn't need much bash to write C programs :)
[06:19] <rockets> Are there any plans to get rid of ESD? Maybe replace it with Pulse or something
[06:58] <thully> hi - I just wanted to thank the devs for fixing a few of my pet peeve issues in the last 8 hrs or so...
[06:59] <thully> namely, the gigantic fonts in X issue (118745) and (the beginning of) allowing the touchpad to be configured with the GUI
[07:17] <IntuitiveNipple> thully: gigantic fonts?
[07:18] <thully> it was a DPI setting issue...
[07:18] <thully> I kind of fixed it manually, but some applications still used very large fonts
[07:18] <IntuitiveNipple> that explains a lot!!!!
[07:19] <IntuitiveNipple> we've had a mass of bugs tonight because of a change, and reading that bug report, it looks to be the reason
[07:19] <IntuitiveNipple> lots of people affected by terminal fonts and other gnome apps resizing so small as to be pixels
[07:23] <ion_> It would be nice if there were a database of monitors that report an incorrect physical size (from which the DPI is calculated). The DDC values should be used for working monitors, but values from the database should override them for incorrectly working ones. The UI part for adding entries to the database could contain a dialog with widgets for the monitors diagonal size in inches and its aspect ratio (4:3, 16:10, 5:4, 16:9).
[07:23] <ion_> From that, the values for xorg.confs DisplaySize setting could be easily calculated.
[07:24] <IntuitiveNipple> We're working on an automated hardware database in time for Hardy
[07:30] <ion_> In fact, perhaps the font settings dialog should contain something like If your fonts are too big or too small by default, perhaps the DPI value is wrong. Please use the monitor blahblah tool to set the correct value. with a button to launch the tool. Initially it would fill the values from what X has assumed for the monitor. When the user fixes the settings, it would send the monitors info and the correct values to the database. From multiple ...
[07:30] <ion_> ... different values reported for the same monitor model, the ones reported the most would win.
[07:35] <pitti> Good morning
[07:36] <IntuitiveNipple> urgh, don't remind me... breakfast time and I haven't been to bed yet
[07:36] <IntuitiveNipple> but good morning :)
[07:37] <LaserJock> morning pitti
[07:40] <StevenK> Morning pitti
[07:41] <ion_> Hi
[07:41] <Chipzz> ion_: would there be a minimum spec for the monitor to be put into that database?
[07:43] <ion_> chipzz: What do you mean?
[07:43] <Chipzz> ion_: I mean you probably only want quite recent models in there
[07:43] <Chipzz> I can
[07:44] <Chipzz> I can
[07:44] <Chipzz> argh :P
[07:44] <Chipzz> I can't dare to start to imagine the number of white label 15" monitors ever produced
[07:44] <ion_> I dont see why there should be such limitation.
[07:45] <ScottK> pitti: Could I please have a give back on qgit 1.5.5-1.1 for lpia?
[07:45] <ion_> If a monitor doesnt report *anything* its model can be identified with via DDC, it probably shouldnt go to the database. Otherwise, i dont see why not.
[07:45] <Chipzz> for old monitors a lot of obscure brands with little number actually still in existence
[07:46] <ion_> And when someone adds its correct info to the database, the other three people using it in the world magically get a working configuration by default. :-)
[07:46] <Chipzz> that sentence is in no way grammatically correct :P
[07:46] <Chipzz> yeah :)
[07:46] <Chipzz> but would it be worth the trouble? ;)
[07:47] <ion_> Id claim theres more trouble trying to limit them from being added.
[07:47] <Chipzz> yeah maybe so
[07:49] <Chipzz> StevenK: really makes me wonder what you are developing if you actually wish it to fail to compile ;)
[07:50] <ion_> A headache. :-)
[07:50] <Chipzz> oh wait
[07:51] <Chipzz> compile as in not the gcc thing? :P
[07:51] <Chipzz> nevermind
[07:51] <Chipzz> I should probably go to bed :P
[07:52] <StevenK> Heh
[08:04] <pitti> ScottK: done
[08:05] <ScottK> pitti: Thanks.
[08:05] <ScottK> pitti: Is the archive sync tool still broken?
[08:05] <pitti> ScottK: no, it should work again
[08:06] <ScottK> OK.  I won't do them manually then if I have more.  Thanks.
[08:09] <ajmitch> tasty
[08:10] <LaserJock> at least he wasn't beaning me with a mentos or something
[08:10] <ajmitch> yay, samba 3.0.26a
[08:10] <ajmitch> hah
[08:10] <ajmitch> oh, those mentos...
[08:11] <ajmitch> at least this one has an orig.tar.gz :)
[08:18] <ScottK> Yeah StevenK
[08:18] <StevenK> That's from memory, since my client doesn't have the old topic around.
[08:20] <StevenK> Ah, thanks
[08:24] <LaserJock> why not?
[08:25] <StevenK> Because IE goes "gzip? What the heck is that?"
[08:26] <LaserJock> 7zip'll take care of it
[08:27] <StevenK> You tell funny jokes.
[08:29] <LaserJock> I do?
[08:29] <LaserJock> I've used 7zip and gunzip to handle .gz files in Windows
[08:36] <ion_> Please dont offer the Internet if the browser is IE, world.
[09:02] <dholbach> good morning
[09:05] <kagou> good morning
[09:05] <dholbach> hey kagou
[09:09] <kagou> hey dholbach, ready for a beta release ? :)
[09:09] <maikmerten> uh, hi. I'm from xiph.org and we just uploaded theora alpha8. On Friday we hope beta1 will be ready.
[09:10] <dholbach> kagou: still a bunch of gnome updates going in
[09:10] <maikmerten> some days ago someone whose name I currently can't recall (I suck) visited #theora and was talking of an exception from general freeze for Theora to perhaps include beta
[09:11] <kagou> indeed
[09:11] <laga> when is the beta release supposed to happen?
[09:11] <maikmerten> friday
[09:11] <maikmerten> this.friday
[09:12] <laga> nice. i hope the unionfs bug will be fixed by then. makes the livecds kinda useless for me.
[09:12] <laga> and for a lot of other people, it seems
[09:12] <maikmerten> http://downloads.xiph.org/releases/theora/libtheora-1.0alpha8.tar.bz2 <-- just in case beta1 is too late
[09:13] <maikmerten> alpha8 is basically a cleanup version and incorporates most of beta - it has been more than a year since the last alpha release
[09:13] <maikmerten> and it terminates our alpha phase
[09:19] <dholbach> ogra: new gnome-power-manager
[09:21] <pitti> maikmerten: will still be quite tricky; we are in all sorts of freezes, libtheora is in 'main', and a lot of packages build against it
[09:21] <maikmerten> sure
[09:21] <pitti> maikmerten: if it changes API/ABI (which I assume it will), then it will be quite a lot of work to fix all the reverse dependencies for that, and get them tested
[09:22] <maikmerten> I'm just trying to keep you informed. If you feel safer with e.g. alpha7 that's 100% okay, too
[09:22] <maikmerten> last minute changes always are problematic
[09:22] <pitti> maikmerten: right, and thanks a lot for the heads-up!
[09:22] <maikmerten> glad if I can help
[09:22] <pitti> maikmerten: just giving an explanation why we might need to skip it for gutsy
[09:23] <maikmerten> well, there's always a next release ;)
[09:23] <pitti> heh, by all means
[09:24] <maikmerten> I always loved Ubuntu for the "it works" attitude, so being serious with freezes of course is fine with me
[09:25] <dholbach> ogra: new gnome-screensaver too
[09:26] <geser> are we building hppa packages again?
[09:29] <pitti> geser: none that I can see in NEW at least
[09:31] <geser> hppa is listed again in the build status for a package and I got a failed build mail on hppa some days ago
[09:32] <viviersf> Mithrandir, is unionfs still broken ?
[09:32] <laga> viviersf: the bug reports are still open
[09:32] <viviersf> :(
[09:32] <viviersf> thanks
[09:33] <Mithrandir> viviersf: afaik, yes, but I'm sick today and was yesterday too, so I haven't kept up to date on it.
[09:33] <laga> viviersf: looks like a beta is to be released on friday. i hope it'll be fixed by then.
[09:34] <pitti> Mithrandir: oh dear; get well soon! *hug*
[09:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: thanks.
[09:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: slightly bored of headache and flu since saturday now..
[09:37] <viviersf> laga, Mithrandir thanks, i hope so too
[09:46] <soren> What is holding back the update for tracker to make it work on amd64?
[09:57] <seb128> soren: what do you mean? what update?
[09:58] <cjwatson_> laga: if you meant the Ubuntu beta release rather than theora (which from context I think you probably did), then the answer is 27th September, and see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule; the unionfs bug is a blocker
[09:58] <cjwatson> geser: lamont is making noises about getting started on it
[10:02] <StevenK> Fetched 42.8MB in 5s (8357kB/s)
[10:02] <StevenK> SELECTING PREVIOUSLY DESELECTED PACKAGE X11-COMMON.
[10:04] <MacSlow> Greetings everybody!
[10:05] <laga> cjwatson: thanks. i had misunderstood the talk about release date thenj
[10:06] <fabbione> geser: ignore those emails for now
[10:12] <soren> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tracker/+bug/138399
[10:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138399 in tracker "trackerd crashed with SIGSEGV in strstr()" [High,Fix committed] 
[10:13] <seb128> soren: what is holding the fix is that nobody is actively maintaining the package, feel free to prepare an upload though
[10:14] <soren> seb128: I just thought that the "Fix committed" status meant that the updated package was ready to be uploaded, but was just waiting for "something".
[10:14] <seb128> soren: no it means it has been fixed upstream now
[10:14] <seb128> soren: so the next version will fix the bug in Ubuntu
[10:15] <pitti> I'm happy to do the update if you want me to
[10:15] <seb128> I've no amd64 to test and I'm busy with GNOME 2.20
[10:15] <seb128> feel free to do it if you want
[10:15] <seb128> otherwise I'll wait for the next version
[10:15] <pitti> alrighty
[10:15] <soren> So... We're shipping it by default, but noone is maintaining it?
[10:16] <StevenK> fabbione: Ping
[10:16] <seb128> soren: yes

[10:16] <soren> Alright.
[10:16] <seb128> soren: you can't blame distro people to be overworked
[10:17] <seb128> that's like evolution, let's face it, we ship it by default but are far to cope with the number of bugs submitted
[10:17] <pitti> seb128: I'll merge with Debian while I'm at it
[10:17] <seb128> pitti: thanks
[10:17] <seb128> soren: if you want to give an hand you are welcome ;)
[10:17] <StevenK> fabbione: Unping
[10:17] <soren> seb128: Nah, I'm kinda busy :)
[10:20] <seb128> ogra: gnome-screensaver and gnome-power-manager 2.20.0 available
[10:27] <fabbione> StevenK: make up your mind :P
[10:53] <Hobbsee> good morning pitti
[10:53] <pitti> hey Hobbsee
[10:54] <StevenK> dholbach: So, libgtksourceviewmm doesn't build, and it's all your fault. :-P
[10:54] <StevenK> dholbach: Shall I fix it, or are you doing so?
[10:55] <dholbach> StevenK: relax :-)
[10:55] <dholbach> StevenK: upstream is working on it - and it's not my fault
[10:55] <dholbach> StevenK: the new gtksourceview2 broke it :)
[10:55] <dholbach> I'll upload a new upstream version once it's fixed
[10:56] <seb128> StevenK: there is lot of other things which don't build correctly if you are bored and want something to do ;)
[10:56] <pitti> yay working tracker
[10:58] <StevenK> dholbach: Okay. :-)
[10:58] <StevenK> seb128: Sure, point me at some. :-)
[11:07] <pitti> mhb: I just saw that r-m-kde does not install any icons
[11:07] <pitti> mhb: wouldn't it make sense to move the icons to -core?
[11:09] <hjmills> hi, where can I find the config file to let me set the LOCALE, LANGUAGE and LC_ALL variables
[11:11] <pitti> hjmills: LANG is defined in /etc/environment, the rest are not set by default
[11:11] <mhb> pitti: no, it doesn't... it loads up the icon from the crystal (KDE) icon set
[11:11] <mhb> pitti: by default ... it can also use any icon set that is installed
[11:11] <pitti> mhb: oh, crystal has icons for r-m?
[11:13] <mhb> pitti: it does have a neat chip icon I'm using
[11:13] <hjmills> pitti, do I need to define them to be able to login to gnome? I used debootstrap to install my system and when I try to login to gdm it just stops
[11:13] <pitti> hjmills: no, shouldn't be necessary
[11:13] <pitti> hjmills: I'd rather blame a missing consolekit or so
[11:14] <hjmills> pitti, ok, thanks, I'll see what else I can find in the logs
[11:14] <hjmills> pitti, I have installed ubuntu-desktop - do I need anything else or is that the metapackage for all the stuff in the normal ubuntu install?
[11:14] <asac> pitti: for moz-ff-locale-all ... how did you handle renamed locales? e.g. bg-BG.xpi -> bg.xpi ... i am tempted to just rename the new xpi, to prevent a new transitional package from being added
[11:15] <pitti> asac: right, I always renamed them back to the ll-CC.xpi schema
[11:15] <asac> pitti: ok thanks.
[11:15] <pitti> asac: painful, but since those changed so often in the past, I shyed around doing transitional packages, too
[11:16] <asac> pitti: agree
[11:24] <pitti> iwj: hm, I can't see why the softmodem restricted-manager handler wouldn't be displayed for you; dumb question, did you actually install the newer r-m-core, too?
[11:27] <soren> pitti: shoot
[11:27] <soren> pitti: I'll just get it booted up.
[11:27] <pitti> soren: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/ has new r-m and r-m-core debs (0.31)
[11:28] <pitti> soren: did you change anything from the default install already, i. e. configure that modem or install sl-modem-daemon?
[11:28] <soren> pitti: Well, it's hardly a default install anymore (upgrades since Hoary), but I haven't done anything w.r.t. the modem.
[11:28] <pitti> soren: that'll do
[11:30] <soren> pitti: Ok, they're installed. Now what?
[11:30] <pitti> soren: restricted-manager -l
[11:31] <soren> ath_hal
[11:31] <pitti> soren: hmm
[11:36] <iwj> pitti: Yes, I installed both packages.
[11:36] <pitti> iwj: ok, thanks; soren gets the same effect; weird
[11:37] <iwj> I could strace it or something.
[11:43] <pitti> iwj: if you "rm /var/cache/restricted-manager/*.restricted", does that help?
[11:45] <iwj> That deleted just one such file, 2.6.22-11-generic.restricted.
[11:45] <iwj> Do I need to reload or poke something too ?
[11:45] <iwj> Or just reopen the manager ?
[11:45] <pitti> iwj: no, just open r-m again
[11:46] <iwj> No change, I'm afraid
[11:46] <pitti> iwj: ok, thanks
[12:03] <tepsipakki> any archive-admins up for a UVFe?
[12:03] <tepsipakki> bug 138987
[12:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138987 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "[UVF]  new version, 6.7.192 + fixes from git master" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138987
[12:07] <pitti> tepsipakki: just for the records, s/archive admins/release managers/
[12:09] <tepsipakki> pitti: oh, should I subscribe them?
[12:10] <Keybuk> err
[12:10] <Keybuk> so how do I change the dictionary that pidgin uses?
[12:11] <pitti> tepsipakki: yep, would be good
[12:11] <pitti> tepsipakki: I'll have a look soon
[12:12] <tepsipakki> pitti: added, thanks
[12:13] <iwj> mvo: We never finished that conversation about apt progress reporting.
[12:14] <mvo> iwj: right. I think I wanted to to know if i can get a "processing-triggers" message over the status-fd
[12:15] <mvo> iwj: so that I can make the progress bar pulse then?
[12:16] <Hobbsee> mvo!
[12:17] <Robert125> Will there exist any ATI driver on kubunt 7.10 that works with widescreen?
[12:17] <mvo> hello Hobbsee
[12:18] <iwj> I can add a message, that's no problem.
[12:18] <iwj> The question is, will anything break if I invent a new status fd message ?
[12:18] <iwj> And are you sure you won't misinterpret the status messages associated with trigger processing as configuration ?
[12:19] <Lure> seb128: do we have gtkimageview in gutsy?
[12:22] <iwj> mvo: ^
[12:22] <seb128> Lure: no idea, what is gtkimageview?
[12:23] <cjwatson> iwj: AFAIK the only things that parse dpkg --status-fd output are apt (et al) and debootstrap
[12:23] <Lure> seb128: http://trac.bjourne.webfactional.com/
[12:23] <Lure> seb128: new ufraw uses it for some advanced features
[12:23] <mvo> iwj: it already sends message that libapt does not understand, it just ignores them.
[12:23] <mvo> iwj: so that should be fine :)
[12:24] <mvo> iwj: triggers-processing or something maybe?
[12:24] <iwj> cjwatson: Thanks.  I'll check debootstrap.
[12:24] <seb128> Lure: looks like it's not packaged
[12:24] <cjwatson> iwj: debootstrap will cope with states it's never heard of, AFAICS
[12:24] <iwj> mvo: Yes, something like that.
[12:24] <iwj> cjwatson: Oh, good.  Thanks for saving me the bother of checking :-).
[12:24] <Lure> seb128: ok, then we wait for gutsy+1
[12:24] <cjwatson> it just does case $qstate in half-installed) unpacked) half-configured) installed) esac and ignores anything else
[12:24] <iwj> mvo: I think I should add a class of messages which correspond to `<doing thing> to <package@.
[12:24] <iwj> s/@/>'#
[12:25] <dholbach> hey sivang
[12:26] <mvo> iwj: i don't really mind the format .)
[12:27] <mvo> iwj: it would be very good to get a idea how many steps will be required for the triggers to provide some way of progress reporting
[12:27] <mvo> iwj: even if that would only for the case where one trigger does not triggers another trigger (which I assume is not very common?)
[12:27] <mvo> hey sivang
[12:28] <cjwatson> mvo: as far as debconf-apt-progress is concerned, I assume this all just gets hidden behind pmstatus?
[12:29] <mvo> cjwatson: that is the goal. currently its not because dpkg does not send any notification about this
[12:29] <mvo> cjwatson: so it goes to 100% and then the trigger processing starts and can take a bit :)
[12:31] <pitti> iwj: I updated the two .debs on http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/tmp/; it should work now
[12:31] <dholbach> sivang: did you see the hubackup patch I assigned to you?
[12:32] <sivang> dholbach: hmm, I haven't sorry, let me try and find it
[12:33] <sivang> dholbach: I should have gotten a mail notification about this right?
[12:33] <dholbach> yes, I guess so
[12:33] <dholbach> hang on
[12:33] <sivang> 'k
[12:33] <dholbach> bug 43337
[12:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 43337 in hubackup "menu icons missing" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/43337
[12:34] <Lure> what is the plan regarding bug 86480?
[12:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 86480 in dcraw "UVF exception : dcraw 8.39 -> 8.61" [Wishlist,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/86480
[12:35] <dholbach> sivang: ^
[12:35] <cjwatson> mvo: right, sorry, "gets" was crypto-future tense there
[12:35] <Lure> it seems that problematic license is already in the universe archive (ufraw includes dcraw with changed license)
[12:36] <sivang> dholbach: yep , got it, thanks
[12:36] <mvo> cjwatson: yes
[12:36] <cjwatson> po4a is magic
[12:36] <dholbach> sivang: ok good
[12:36] <Lure> and future version of digikam and rawstudio are going in that direction too
[12:36] <sivang> dholbach: fix should be uploaded to gutsy right?
[12:36] <Hobbsee> Lure: ask Mithrandir, elmo
[12:37] <dholbach> sivang: yeah, in case you like the patch
[12:37] <dholbach> sivang: in any case it'd be great if you could reply to the patch author
[12:37] <sivang> dholbach: indeed.
[12:37] <dholbach> I might as well tell everybody else to *PRETTY PLEASE* checkout http://daniel.holba.ch/sponsoring again
[12:39] <seb128> dholbach: good work, the list is quite small
[12:39] <Lure> Hobbsee: is there a LP group for people that care about license in archive? archive-admin?
[12:39] <dholbach> seb128: yeah but still there's a bunch of slackers not getting stuff uploaded or rejected ;-)
[12:40] <Hobbsee> Lure: ubuntu-archive.  i note that neither Mithrandir or elmo are actually directly subscribed to teh bug though
[12:40] <Hobbsee> and both are on irc
[12:40] <Lure> Hobbsee: will add request to bug and subsribe ubuntu-archive
[12:40] <seb128> Lure: what is your issue?
[12:40] <Hobbsee> seb128: you're volunteering for licencing stuff, are you?
[12:41] <Hobbsee> seb128: see the bug
[12:41] <seb128> Hobbsee: no, that was a reply to dholbach :p
[12:41] <seb128> subscribe ubuntu-archive
[12:41] <Lure> seb128: dcraw.c newer than 8.60 has new license that according to elmo is not free enough
[12:41] <Lure> seb128: this is why digikam stayed with 8.60, but at the same time ufraw was accepted with 8.62 based dcraw code
[12:41] <Hobbsee> seb128: :P
[12:42] <Lure> seb128: so if it is clear that license is not acceptable for main/universe, we need to move ufraw to multiverse for gutsy
[12:42] <Lure> seb128: for gutsy+1, problem will be bigger as some main components (digikam) will also upgrade to newer dcraw
[12:43] <Hobbsee> Lure: ew
[12:44] <Mithrandir> Lure: have you seen debian bug 431883?
[12:44] <ubotu> Debian bug 431883 in dcraw "dcraw license does not give permission to distribute modified versions or source alongside" [Serious,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/431883
[12:44] <Lure> seb128: upstream author considers that license is free enough, but nobody has challenged his position with concerned raised
[12:45] <Lure> Mithrandir: yep, but there is still no conclusion on ubuntu bug
[12:46] <Lure> Mithrandir: from last debian comment I would expect it is ok, but again I am not to guy to make the call here ;-)
[12:46] <Mithrandir> Lure: it's not an ideal text, but I think it's fine when it basically says "this is under GPLv2 or $list_of_other_licences_at_your_option"
[12:47] <Lure> Mithrandir: it would be good to have a official statement, so that packagers know how to handle this
[12:52] <Mithrandir> Lure: commented
[12:54] <Lure> Mithrandir: thanks - so we can leave ufraw for gutsy and upgrade other packages properly in gutsy+1
[12:54] <mneptok> Mithrandir: any idea who's shepherding network-mangler these days?
[12:55] <Mithrandir> mneptok: asac
[12:55] <mneptok> Mithrandir: cool. i'll make a new "friend."  ;)
[12:55] <Hobbsee> mneptok: assuming he consents to be your "friend"
[12:56] <Lure> mneptok: asac has too many "friends" already (n-m is no fun)
[12:56] <mneptok> Hobbsee: seeing that i actually use n-m, he might want to run while te can.
[12:56] <mneptok> *he
[12:58] <Mithrandir> Lure: I'm off sick today, I'd rather not try to make release management decisions. :-P
[12:58] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: sick?  since when can people call in sick?
[12:59] <mneptok> Hobbsee: i'll be doing the same today
[01:00] <mneptok> 7am and i are not on great speaking terms. but today we're reacquainting due to me feeling like doot.
[01:00] <Lure> Mithrandir: ;-) thanks even more and hope you get well soon
[01:01] <Mithrandir> Hobbsee: I didn't call in, I sent an email. :-P
[01:01] <Mithrandir> Lure: I'll be fine tomorrow, I think
[01:01] <Hobbsee> Mithrandir: and that makes it any better?  :P
[01:02] <Mithrandir> heh
[01:02] <Mithrandir> Lure: thanks though. :-)
[01:05] <Lure> cjwatson: any chance to fix bug 93077 for gutsy? not sure if proposed patch is sane, but it seems it works at least for croatian...
[01:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 93077 in console-setup "Non-exsisting layouts" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93077
[01:06] <Keybuk> heh
[01:06] <Keybuk> I like compiz
[01:06] <Lure> Keybuk: more than n-m? ;-)
[01:06] <asac> Lure: i like nm :)
[01:06] <Keybuk> I'm supposed to be taking a break right now, but it can't grab the keyboard, so I can still type into X-Chat even though it's behind the dimmed screne
[01:06] <asac> Lure: but maybe i am a masochist
[01:06] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, how come that change of mind? :)
[01:07] <asac> Lure: any issues?
[01:07] <pitti> asac: if you were, you wouldn't fix bugs in it
[01:07] <asac> oh right ;)
[01:08] <Lure> asac: mneptok wanted you
[01:08] <asac> pitti: do i need UVFe for latest ffox locales?
[01:08] <pitti> asac: as long as you test them all, it's fine for me
[01:08] <Lure> asac: you know about my problem (wired not on in n-m after boot), but I think you are working on it, right
[01:08] <asac> pitti: i tested them with a for loop
[01:08] <asac> :)
[01:08] <asac> pitti: and clicked through preference dialog for all
[01:08] <pitti> asac: right, I did the very same :) (but tested help as well)
[01:08] <mneptok> asac: scream when you have a few minutes? n-m is not ploying nicely here. :)
[01:09] <pitti> asac: fine then, thanks
[01:09] <asac> pitti: help? ok let me do another run (maybe)
[01:09] <cjwatson> Lure: yeah, I'm hoping for a block of time to sit and stare at it
[01:09] <asac> pitti: ku doesn't have a translated security preference tab ... but that isn't a regression from previous lang-pack ... so it should be fine
[01:09] <asac> pitti: btw, the language name detection for nso doesn't work ...i added a template in debian/control/nso/control to fix that.
[01:10] <asac> pitti: nso  == Nothern Sotho Language
[01:10] <Lure> cjwatson: that would be great as this is draging now for couple of releases and it looks proposed solution is near the end of the tunnel ;-)
[01:10] <asac> pitti: if you don't have an idea, i will leave it that way
[01:10] <Lure> cjwatson: btw, it is milestoned as "Ubuntu: later" - what does that mean?
[01:10] <pitti> asac: hm, it's been so long; where does it try to get the name from?
[01:11] <asac> pitti: xpath -q -e "//*[@iso_639_1_code=\"$$CURLANG\"] /@name" /usr/share/xml/iso-codes/iso_639.xml
[01:11] <cjwatson> Lure: it means that it was formerly given a proper milestone, but is now "actual bug, please remember to get round to this"
[01:11] <cjwatson> basically deferred from earlier release
[01:11] <pitti> asac: ah, there
[01:11] <Lure> cjwatson: ok
[01:12] <asac> pitti: there exists language-support-nso though
[01:19] <iwj> mvo: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/dpkg.1
[01:19] <iwj> nroff -man | less +/status-fd
[01:19] <iwj> and tell me that will meet your needs.
[01:20] <iwj> (or not)
[01:20] <iwj> The "processing:" is new and you may want to use it as a substitute for "status:" for detecting unpack/configure, as well.
[01:21] <mneptok> stub: konban-wa :)
[01:21] <stub> gerzuntheit
[01:33] <cjwatson> mvo: could you please do https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GnomeAppInstallDesktopDatabaseUpdate, if you haven't done so recently?
[01:39] <Yoe> Hi -- I've been trying to pull the patches for nbd-server 1:2.9.6-1ubuntu3 into Debian, but patches.ubuntu.com seems outdated
[01:39] <Yoe> any hints as to what I need to do?
[01:39] <ogra> Yoe, debdiff between the debian and the ubuntu package ?
[01:40] <Yoe> ogra: sure, but it'd be nice if the patches site were up-to-date
[01:40] <ogra> indeed
[01:40] <Yoe> perhaps I should've asked "what's going on", rather than "what do I do" :)
[01:41] <geser> Keybuk: ^^
[01:41] <ogra> geser, yeah, was about to ping him :)
[01:41] <Yoe> heh
[01:43] <ogra> hmm, scott didnt attach the patch to bug 134572
[01:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134572 in nbd "Segfault" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134572
[01:44] <ogra> he usually does that ...
[01:46] <mhb> pitti: weren't there any Gtk.py changes that should have been done in KDE as well?
[01:47] <mvo> cjwatson: a update is needed, I will do that now
[01:49] <mvo> iwj: that looks nice, thanks
[01:49] <pitti> mhb: the two bug fixes from Matteo shouldn't affect KDE (unless you managed to forget to connect the same signal)
[01:49] <pitti> mhb: the 'show rationale as a tooltip' could be done in KDE as well, I figure
[01:51] <iwj> mvo: Good.  It's just built and I'll give it a sanity check.
[01:53] <cjwatson> mvo: also, it's time to start https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UpgradeTestingProcess
[01:53] <cjwatson> (I know you do some of that already; the beta process requires me to notify you properly though
[01:53] <cjwatson> )
[01:58] <Hobbsee> oh, damnation.
[01:58] <Hobbsee> the problem with having too many email addresses is that when you end up sending an email from the wrong one to a couple of mailing lists, it all gets moderated.
[01:59] <Spads> that's why I have reply-hooks
[02:00] <Spads> I should work out folder hooks as well
[02:00] <Hobbsee> well, it is supposed to automatically pick
[02:00] <Hobbsee> it seems to just fall over with the @ubuntu/@kubuntu addresses
[02:00] <pitti> those work fine
[02:00] <pitti> folder-hook debian 'my_hdr From: Martin Pitt <mpitt@debian.org>'
[02:01] <Mirv> cjwatson: regarding bug 132157, nothing changed with the new ubiquity upload. ie. on most gtk installer pages everything is untranslated
[02:01] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 132157 in ubiquity "Untranslated strings in gutsy installer" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/132157
[02:01] <Mirv> with all languages
[02:02] <Mirv> for example, choosins Francais as the language, the first step after language selection (Where are you?) is completely untranslated
[02:02] <StevenK> pitti: Which means you need to be in the folder for that list when you write a message to it.
[02:02] <StevenK> pitti: Which is fine for replying, but not for writing something new.
[02:02] <pitti> StevenK: right, but I usually am (call it "mental context" for mail processing)
[02:03] <StevenK> Mmm. I didn't want to be constrainted like that. Wanderlust had templates, so I could switch From addresses easily.
[02:03] <StevenK> has, even
[02:04] <Mirv> cjwatson: it would look like the problem is not in the PO files, since the translations exist already and have now been refreshed. also there's no use for me to file multiple bugs yet, as that there is a bigger problem than just a few untranslated strings.
[02:05] <cjwatson> Mirv: I can't do anything more until unionfs is fixed
[02:05] <cjwatson> Mirv: you may just be suffering from the broken unionfs, and I don't want to make any judgements until after that
[02:05] <iwj> pitti: Thanks, that does seem to DTRT but for some reason the result doesn't work, which I think must be due to this test laptop having been broken somehow or alternatively a kernel change.
[02:06] <iwj> Anyway, nothing to do with r-m I think.
[02:06] <cjwatson> From:> I have vim macros to pick different From: addresses and signatures with three keystrokes, which is good enough for me
[02:06] <pitti> iwj: it did work fine for soren now; thanks for your testing, too!
[02:06] <iwj> Did he get it to dial up ?
[02:06] <iwj> Or did he just test that it installed the packages ?
[02:06] <pitti> iwj: just ATI testing
[02:06] <pitti> iwj: it did respond to AT commands, but I doubt he actually dialed
[02:07] <iwj> Hmmm.
[02:07] <cjwatson> Mirv: thanks for testing though
[02:09] <Mirv> cjwatson: ok. this time I was using an installed gutsy with the updated ubiquity package (launching Install manually from System/Administration), don't know if it matters. but let's see about it later.
[02:10] <iwj> Mine says "no carrier" right away even before waiting for a dialtone.
[02:13] <cjwatson> Mirv: hmm, OK, so unionfs wouldn't be involved
[02:13] <cjwatson> Mirv: OK, I'll see what I can do with a similar setup
[02:14] <seb128> ogra: around?
[02:14] <Mirv> cjwatson: ok, thanks.
[02:14] <ogra> seb128, yup
[02:14] <seb128> ogra: could you package gnome-screensaver and gnome-power-manager 2.20 today? Upstream was frozen so they are likely easy updates and I would like to have the new GNOME available in Ubuntu today
[02:14] <ogra> seb128, i'm on the gpm/gss packages if its about them ... :)
[02:14] <seb128> ogra: cool
[02:14] <ogra> :)
[02:15] <seb128> thanks
[02:15] <ogra> thanks for the ping ... i just got up (worked until 6am last night ... )
[02:16] <Hobbsee> ye nutty people
[02:16] <Hobbsee> please do not file bugs validating what i say on a ML.
[02:16] <seb128> Hobbsee: what did you say?
[02:16] <zul> well it will be fixed faster then :)
[02:17] <Hobbsee> seb128: (it's been moderated), but about the fact that people are filing bugs on PPA's, and in particular, not to expect that people would check where they got the package from, before filing a bug about that package.
[02:17] <Hobbsee> so someone goes and files a bug on google earth.
[02:17] <StevenK> Yay!
[02:18] <lamont> geser: hppa is building in launchpad, still nowhere close to anything to worry about failures from - I'll send mail to -devel or so once it is usable enough to worry about build failures.  until then, I'll be the primary failure-worrier
[02:19] <geser> lamont: ok, I was just curious what's going on with hppa
[02:21] <lamont> geser: that's more of a #ubuntu-ports discussion. :-)  and the topic there has details, too. :-)
[02:21] <lamont> short answer is that it's getting back into the archive after being out for edgy/feisty
[02:22] <lamont> we expect to have main debootstrappable by release, it'll be a race to see if universe gets built or not.
[02:22] <lamont> s/built/finished building/
[02:23] <StevenK> lamont: Why was it out for Edgy and Feisty?
[02:23] <lamont> http://bld-4.mmjgroup.com/~wb/buildLogs/stats/gutsy.hppa.png is the current graph of hppa/gutsy-in-launchpad (feel free to substitute $arch)
[02:23] <lamont> StevenK: lack of NPTL - ubuntu adopted it before hppa was ready
[02:24] <StevenK> Ahhh
[02:24] <lamont> http://bld-4.mmjgroup.com/~wb/buildLogs/stats/gutsy2-short.png doesn't have hppa in it, because that smashes everyone else against the ceiling.
[02:24] <StevenK> Are both buildds sorted out as well?
[02:25] <lamont> we do have a working/debootstrappable archive, it's just not inLP yet...
[02:25] <lamont> both buildds are  running and building
[02:25] <lamont> I still need to drop the new kernel on the 3rd buildd (which builds security et al), but it probably won't be in the rotation to build gutsy unless we get, um, gutsy
[02:26] <lamont> Topic for #ubuntu-ports is hppa, ia64 or new ports discussion goes here | hppa status: Building gutsy in the DC | deb http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/hppa/gutsy-stage0 gutsy main ... is debootstrappable
[02:26] <lamont> for the semi-curious
[02:27] <StevenK> lamont: Or "Oh crap, openoffice.org takes *days* to build" ? :_)
[02:27] <lamont> StevenK: I think there was a new gnome in there too
[02:27] <lamont> hppa doesn't build oo.o, so that speeds things up.
[02:28] <jdong> random question... are PPA's safe for LP servers?
[02:28] <jdong> is it all done virtually and independently of official package builds?
[02:29] <StevenK> jdong: Yes
[02:29] <jdong> ok, cool
[02:29] <geser> they are done inside a xen host
[02:29] <jdong> are there limits against denial-of-services like infinite loops or other absurdly long builds?
[02:31] <lamont> jdong: almost certainly
[02:31] <jdong> ok, that's cool
[02:31] <jdong> I would've figured it'd be well thought out :)
[02:31] <jdong> so can PPA builders access the network or are my evil plans to make portage-for-Ubuntu thwarted?
[02:32] <Hobbsee> !jdong | jdong
[02:32] <ubotu> jdong: jdong is Hobbsee: jdong: yes, but you're FULL OF CRACK!
[02:32] <jdong> lol
[02:32] <jdong> everyone wants gentoo! (tm)
[02:33] <zul> uh no
[02:33] <Hobbsee> jdong: put *down* the crack pipe
[02:33] <jdong> MY CRACK PIPE!
[02:33] <Hobbsee> and stay off those forums, too.
[02:42] <Lure> pitti: did you have time to look into libgphoto2?
[02:44] <cjwatson> jdong: haven't checked, but I'd be surprised if they could, given that normal buildds can't access the network and PPA buildd security is generally tighter than normal buildds
[02:45] <Spads> jdong: ask infinity about GAR
[02:49] <pygi> siretart: around?
[02:55] <siretart> pygi: sort-of, yes
[02:55] <pygi> siretart: you did saw that users are complaining?
[02:56] <siretart> pygi: not yet. references
[02:56] <siretart> ?
[02:57] <pygi> siretart: bug reports and talks with some people, no bug numbers handy now
[02:57] <pygi> but I believe you're getting the same bug reports as I do, so that might fire up an alarm at least
[02:58] <lucas> complaining about what?
[02:58] <siretart> I thought I would get them.. hmmmm
[02:58] <pygi> lucas: how hard is it to guess? :)
[02:59] <lucas> well, they could complain about a small detail, or about something more global, or about the weather, etc :)
[03:00] <pygi> they wouldn't complain in this way about it ;)
[03:01] <siretart> pygi: please send me references to complaints
[03:01] <pygi> siretart: what will you do ? Talking won't bring you any good
[03:02] <pygi> with you know who
[03:02] <siretart> I just had another telefone talk with him.
[03:02] <pygi> well, seems like that isn't helping much :-P
[03:02] <siretart> lol. 'you know how'. we all are harry potter fans, *G*
[03:03] <pygi> s/how/who * :-P
[03:03] <pygi> hehe :D
[03:03] <pygi> ergh, too much bug mail
[03:04] <pygi> siretart: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/6493
[03:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 6493 in cdrtools "cdda2wav - cannot cope with accents in CDDB data" [Wishlist,Invalid] 
[03:04] <pygi> here's one :)
[03:04] <stgraber> mjg59: You are the one who fixed the Badvalue thing right ?
[03:04] <pygi> but trust me, this is just a little thing
[03:05] <stgraber> mjg59: one of my teacher still has even with the latest packages
[03:05] <siretart> ok, I'm aware of that bug, and I agree with him here
[03:05] <pygi> with who?
[03:05] <pygi> Jorg?
[03:05] <siretart> he is a bit harsh, indeed. the user isn't too helpful either ehre
[03:05] <siretart> jupp
[03:06] <pygi> it doesn't matter whetever you, I, or somebody else agree
[03:06] <pygi> it's important how users see that
[03:07] <siretart> pygi: when did you set a contact address for ubuntu-burning
[03:07] <siretart> without telling me that? ;) - I was wondering where that bugmail went...
[03:07] <pygi> siretart:  :D
[03:07] <pygi> thought you knew it :-P
[03:07] <pygi> well, consider yourself lucky :D
[03:08] <siretart> no
[03:08] <siretart> naj, I have to import mail now :/
[03:08] <pygi> mhmh, so you aren't subscribed to the list?
[03:08] <siretart> not yet
[03:08] <pygi> I think contact adress was there from the start? :-P
[03:09] <pygi> not sure I even have the power to do that now, since I've transfered ownership to you, remember? ;)
[03:09] <siretart> waaah
[03:24] <atlas95> hello
[03:25] <atlas95> automount don't work for me and you?
[03:26] <geser> I'm looking on an upload to Debian which should get synced to gutsy. The last upload changed b-d from libdb4.3-dev to libdb4.6-dev. Is this change ok or should it be undone for gutsy?
[03:32] <iwj> mvo: dpkg_1.14.5ubuntu13, just uploaded.
[03:36] <sivang> hmm, I got the gusty deboostrap and still getting "no script" error
[03:40] <cjwatson> sivang: you've probably not installed it right then
[03:40] <sivang> I'll reinstall
[03:40] <cjwatson> if gutsy's debootstrap were broken we *really* would notice ...
[03:41] <iwj> mvo: As an example package for something with triggers, install volumeid.
[03:43] <mvo> iwj: thanks
[03:53] <iwj> mvo: I don't suppose you fancy turning off compiz's crazy windows sliding up and down effect (for raise/lower) ?  (As I request in bug 134234.)  I showed it to a couple of my friends and they all said WTF!
[03:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134234 in compiz "bouncing windows effect for raise/lower" [Low,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134234
[03:54] <StevenK> iwj: The proper name is Focus Effect: Dodge
[03:54] <mvo> iwj: I did that with the upload of yesterday
[03:54] <iwj> mvo: Yay, thanks.
[03:54] <iwj> (not updated yet, here)
[03:55] <ion_> mvo: Oh, i was meaning to congratulate about that choice. :-)
[03:57] <mvo> ion_: heh :)
[03:58] <cjwatson> Mirv: aha, got it. Try applying http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/revision/cjwatson%40canonical.com-20070918135724-iyu7khlincjlbckw?start_revid=cjwatson%40canonical.com-20070918135724-iyu7khlincjlbckw to your local copy
[03:58] <cjwatson> Mirv: works for me now
[04:15] <Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
[04:16] <bddebian> Heya
[04:30] <asac> mneptok: there?
[04:36] <pitti> evand: gobuntu seems to seed linux-image-2.6.22-11-rt; is this deliberate? it's in universe, and traditionally, -rt has been unsupported
[04:36] <evand> gah
[04:36] <evand> pitti: no, I imagine not
[04:37] <pitti> evand: if we need it, we can discuss it, of course
[04:37] <cjwatson> pitti: ... it does?
[04:37] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@sarantium ~/src/ubuntu/seeds/gobuntu.gutsy>$ grep -- -rt *
[04:37] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@sarantium ~/src/ubuntu/seeds/gobuntu.gutsy>$ grep linux-meta *
[04:37] <cjwatson> <cjwatson@sarantium ~/src/ubuntu/seeds/gobuntu.gutsy>$
[04:37] <pitti> hm, then anastacia is lying
[04:37] <cjwatson> pitti: I bet it's a Provides thing
[04:37] <pitti> o linux-image-2.6.22-11-rt linux-image-2.6.22-11-xen    {linux-source-2.6.22}
[04:37] <pitti>    [Reverse-Depends: Gobuntu.Gutsy ship seed] 
[04:37] <pitti> ah, maybe
[04:38] <pitti> evand: sorry for the noise then
[04:38] <evand> no problem, thanks for keeping an eye out for such issues
[04:38] <pitti> cjwatson: probably similar to why libfile-temp-perl appears on the output (provided by perl-modules)
[04:39] <cjwatson> ah, my fault, I assumed that the linux-image metapackage existed just like linux does
[04:39] <cjwatson> maybe it should?
[04:39] <Artemis3> has anyone edited tzdata files to compile with zic?
[04:39] <cjwatson> I think in general linux should have linux-image parallels, since conceptually linux == linux-image + linux-restricted-modules
[04:39] <Keybuk> every time I update today, I get MORE GNOME!
[04:39] <bddebian> Doh
[04:40] <cjwatson> pitti: if you agree, I'll change linux-meta
[04:40] <pitti> Keybuk: feel teh love!
[04:40] <dholbach> Keybuk: it's 2.20.0 :-)
[04:40] <pitti> cjwatson: thanks, please do
[04:41] <soren> I forget... Why are we replacing beagle with tracker?
[04:41] <geser> I'm looking on an upload to Debian which should get synced to gutsy. The last upload changed b-d from libdb4.3-dev to libdb4.6-dev. Is this change ok or should it be undone for gutsy?
[04:41] <soren> Mono?
[04:41] <StevenK> soren: Apparently.
[04:41] <soren> StevenK: I see.
[04:41] <evand> soren: wasn't it a performance issue at the design level?
[04:41] <StevenK> geser: universe or main?
[04:41] <soren> evand: Possibly.
[04:41] <geser> universe, skktools
[04:41] <StevenK> geser: Fine, leave it
[04:42] <jdong> soren: probably because of resource footprint....
[04:42] <jdong> soren: many people report large memory footprint of beagle....
[04:42] <jdong> tracker's significantly smaller, though my personal experience shows terrible IO performance with large home directories
[04:42] <soren> jdong: Sounds sane enough, then.
[04:43] <pochu> jdong: it's a bug, which will be fixed this week :)
[04:43] <jamiemcc> jdong: we are working on the io issue but it means using more meory
[04:43] <jamiemcc> so that we flush less often
[04:43] <jdong> jamiemcc: I'd gladly trade memory for not having 35 minutes of grindy disks at night :)
[04:43] <jamiemcc> me too :)
[04:43] <jdong> but I'm thrilled to see it being fixed :)
[04:43] <jdong> tracker otherwise rocks
[04:44] <ion_> Tracker also offers the whole metadata database thing, which will be freaking awesome in the long run.
[04:44] <jamiemcc> jdong : 30 mb ram is needed to completley eliminate disk io
[04:44] <ion_> That is, when programs begin to use it to its full extent.
[04:44] <jdong> jamiemcc: isn't that still 90MB less than beagle?
[04:44] <jamiemcc> lol
[04:44] <jdong> jamiemcc: I think according to Ubuntu's system recommendations, 30MB can easily be spared
[04:45] <soren> jamiemcc: Uh? By using 30 MB of RAM, you don't have to look at the disk to know what's on it?
[04:45] <jamiemcc> yeah gutsy is for 512mb systems
[04:45] <jamiemcc> soren: by keeping it in cache
[04:45] <jamiemcc> the bottlenect is seeking and saving the word index
[04:46] <jamiemcc> reallocationsa s hit array grows really kills IO
[04:46] <soren> Um, ok.
[04:47] <soren> jamiemcc: Is there some sort of design document for tracker?
[04:47] <jamiemcc> wnope which part are you interested in?
[04:48] <soren> jamiemcc: The cache design for one thing..
[04:48] <jamiemcc> the cache is just a hash table
[04:48] <jamiemcc> when it grow to a certain size we flush it to disk
[04:50] <soren> jamiemcc: Well, that's why we have virtual memory, isn't it?
[04:51] <jamiemcc> no we dont want to swap :)
[04:52] <cjwatson> where does this 512mb thing come from?
[04:53] <cjwatson> we still have lots of people trying to use 256mb and I'd like to cater for them in Ubuntu proper
[04:53] <jamiemcc> cjwatson: we have a low memory mode in tracker for them
[04:53] <jamiemcc> the specs for gutsy machine is 512mb ram minimum
[04:53] <cjwatson> where is that stated?
[04:53] <jamiemcc> in tracker-preferences
[04:53] <cjwatson> huh? that's not gutsy's specifications
[04:54] <ion_> Perhaps tracker should choose the low memory mode automatically if theres less than 512 MiB.
[04:54] <cjwatson> I mean what Ubuntu documentation told you that gutsy's minimum memory requirement is supposed to be 512 MB?
[04:54] <soren> jamiemcc: http://varnish.projects.linpro.no/wiki/ArchitectNotes  explains things pretty well.
[04:55] <jamiemcc> cjwatson: im hunting for it
[04:55] <cjwatson> jamiemcc: because whatever it is I don't remember it going through me, and I'd have expected it to
[05:06] <soren> cjwatson: What would you believe it is? 192
[05:06] <soren> ?
[05:06] <soren> The memory requirment of gutsy, that is.
[05:07] <jamiemcc> cjwatson: I thought the ubuntu release of latest ubuntu is average for a 2 year old computer
[05:08] <mvo> is someone here runing a feist lowlatency kernel? if so, could you please let me know what "uname -r" outputs?
[05:09] <cjwatson> soren: the last figure I have is 256, though I am aware that it won't actually work in that at the moment. However I think that should be considered a bug and not "oh, but those are gutsy's requirements so that's OK".
[05:09] <cjwatson> jamiemcc: that's only Scott's personal opinion, AFAIK
[05:09] <jamiemcc> ok
[05:10] <jamiemcc> would 30mb be excessive for firt time index only (>6mb thereafter)?
[05:10] <cjwatson> I have no real opinion there, the only bit I was arguing with was the invocation of gutsy's specifications
[05:10] <jamiemcc> ok
[05:10] <agoliveira> mvo: 2.6.20-16-lowlatency
[05:11] <mvo> agoliveira: thanks a lot!
[05:11] <agoliveira> mvo: My pleasure ;)
[05:11] <cjwatson> BenC: gah, now I have to dig through opensuse's repository again
[05:11] <cjwatson> the least navigable system on god's earth
[05:11] <StevenK> Haha
[05:12] <cjwatson> iwj: would it be worth turning off the "ldconfig: wrapper deferring update (trigger activated)" message, or making it subject to a debugging environment variable, or something? I find it rather noisy in updates
[05:12] <BenC> cjwatson: glad to be of help :)
[05:14] <cjwatson> BenC: not seeing this patch though, unless it's in the syslinux hooks
[05:15] <BenC> cjwatson: not sure exactly where it is, but there's an off chance this is a bug in kvm...some is checking into it, so maybe hold off today on it
[05:20] <iwj> cjwatson: Yes, it might well.
[05:20] <ogra> seb128, if ./configure says --enable-pam is auto and i depend on libpam0g-dev, shouldnt "ldd /usr/bin/gnome-screensaver|grep pam" return something ?
[05:20] <ogra> (it doesnt )
[05:20] <iwj> cjwatson: I think it's been hammered enough now that it's time to take the message out.
[05:20] <pitti> BenC: will you need kexec-tools in main for gutsy? it wants to go to universe for a long time already
[05:21] <BenC> pitti: it's not required, but it will be in gutsy+1
[05:21] <pitti> mathiaz, keescook: will you upload a new AA with the re-added libterm-readkey-perl/librpc-xml-perl today? or is that obsolete?
[05:21] <pitti> BenC: right; just pondering whether we should explicitly seed it or demote for gutsy
[05:21] <keescook> pitti: I never dropped readkey, but I can re-enable librpc-xml
[05:22] <pitti> BenC: it has an approved MIR, so we can quickly promote it whenever we need to
[05:22] <BenC> pitti: ok
[05:22] <pitti> keescook: hm, readkey appears in http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/component-mismatches.txt, so I guess it was dropped?
[05:22] <pitti> BenC: is it useful on its own for something that we want to support?
[05:23] <pitti> cjwatson: I am not sure about partman-crypto-loop; will that eventually be used in gutsy's d-i?
[05:23] <ion_> soren: Good article. Depending on the purpose, it indeed sounds reasonable to consider disk to be the main storage and RAM to be cache, and let the kernel take care of moving data between them.
[05:24] <BenC> pitti: it could be used for fast reboots on kernel upgrades (avoids hw reset)
[05:24] <pitti> BenC: so if our kernels support it, and you are happy with it, I'll seed it
[05:24] <BenC> pitti: yeah, sounds good to me
[05:25] <geser> keescook: Hi, could you ACK bug #140665? it fixes CVE-2007-4033.
[05:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 140665 in t1lib "[Sync request]  Sync t1lib (5.1.0-3) from Debian unstable main" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140665
[05:25] <pitti> keescook: good morning
[05:26] <pitti> keescook: nothing AppArmorish in apt-cache rdepends libterm-readkey-perl
[05:26] <cjwatson> pitti: I wasn't planning to include partman-crypto-loop. I didn't intentionally promote it, only -dm
[05:26] <cjwatson> pitti: I think Soyuz just hates us
[05:26] <cjwatson> iwj: want a bug?
[05:27] <pitti> cjwatson: might be from the time when change-override was b0rked; I'll demote it, thanks
[05:27] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: news at 11.
[05:27] <cjwatson> I should probably test crypto now that it's supposed to be in
[05:27] <keescook> pitti: perhaps it is missing an automatic perl-depends scan?
[05:27] <keescook> geser: sure, one sec
[05:27] <iwj> cjwatson: If I haven't fixed it by the end of tomorrow, file a bug :-).
[05:27] <pitti> keescook: shouldn't it be a package dependency?
[05:27] <cjwatson> ok :)
[05:28] <keescook> pitti: it should, yes, but it wasn't realized.  are those needed explicitly, or is there some dh magic that can be used?
[05:28] <pitti> Hobbsee: curious, where does this 'news at 11' aphorism come from?
[05:28] <cjwatson> pitti: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_at_eleven
[05:28] <Hobbsee> pitti: unsure exactly.  but the long form is "soyuz hates us, news at 11."
[05:28] <pitti> keescook: dh_perl should actually do it (with ${perl:Depends}
[05:28] <mathiaz> pitti: did you have a look at the UVFe I've filed for apparmor ? (140507)
[05:28] <mathiaz> pitti: I've added the dependency in my branch.
[05:29] <pitti> mathiaz: no, I didn't even see it; did you subscribe ~ubuntu-release? /me looks
[05:29] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: way cool - i didnt know it had a wiki page too
[05:29] <mathiaz> pitti: yop
[05:29] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: everything has a wikipedia page
[05:29] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: i dont have a wiki page, last i checked.
[05:29] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: clearly they dont make wiki pages for green aliens.
[05:29] <cjwatson> I did say every*thing*
[05:30] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: green aliens are not a thing?
[05:30] <soren> ion_: Yeah. It's actually pretty good at doing just that :)
[05:31] <geser> Hobbsee: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_green_men
[05:31] <geser> :)
[05:32] <pitti> mathiaz: ah, only 12 minutes ago; I'm not that fast with syncing mail :)
[05:32] <ion_> soren: It better be. :-)
[05:32] <Hobbsee> geser: they dont mention those of us who turn purple :)
[05:32] <MacSlow> seb128, so the N:M workspace-layout mapping from metacity to compiz works now
[05:32] <dholbach> MacSlow: kickass!
[05:33] <mathiaz> pitti: hum.. I subscribed ubuntu-release yesterday
[05:33] <MacSlow> seb128, as good as it is possible with the sick "design-issue" of num_rows being not a metacity-property but a workspace-switcher-applet
[05:33] <mathiaz> pitti: but I did update the bug about 12 minutes ago
[05:33] <MacSlow> seb128, so you're 3x3 layout will cleanly migrate from metacity to compiz
[05:33] <pitti> mathiaz: oh, does -profiles ship its own cupsd profile now? We need to make sure that they do not conflict
[05:34] <dholbach> pitti: nemiver and glom will build cleanly against the new libgtksourceviewmm
[05:34] <dholbach> pitti: preparing nemiver rebuild upload
[05:34] <pitti> dholbach: yay you
[05:35] <MacSlow> dholbach, the whole issue is really nasty... I'll offer vuntz my help after gutsy release to make the whole issue get a clean solution for gnome 2.22
[05:35] <dholbach> nice
[05:35] <mathiaz> pitti: hum.. It came from upstream. I should remove for the package.
[05:35] <mathiaz> pitti: it's in extra, so it ends in /usr/share/doc
[05:35] <pitti> mathiaz, keescook: bug 140507 approved
[05:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 140507 in apparmor "UVFe - 2.1+993-0ubuntu1" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140507
[05:35] <pitti> mathiaz: ah, that's fine
[05:36] <soren> ion_: pkl also usually knows his stuff.
[05:52] <keescook> mathiaz: cool, your tree is bumped already?  Should I pull it and then undo the RPC::XML changes I made?
[05:54] <hunger> Hmmm... apt-get coredumps now. Same for aptitude.
[05:54] <hunger> dpkg
[05:55] <hunger> seems to work fine, but messes up the terminal.
[05:55] <Hobbsee> hunger: what the heck did you do?
[05:55] <hunger> Hobbsee: Update.
[05:55] <Hobbsee> erk
[05:56] <geser> here too :(
[05:56] <geser> Setting up dpkg (1.14.5ubuntu13) ...
[05:56] <geser> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
[05:56] <pitti> new dpkg with --status-fd update?
[05:56] <hunger> I read that somebody changed the fd related code. I guess it does send some wiered junk on to the apps now.
[05:57] <_MMA_> geser: Me too. :(
[05:57] <pitti> downgrading dpkg helps, I assume?
[05:58] <geser> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
[05:58] <geser> 0x00002b82007e8a51 in _strstrip () from /usr/lib/libapt-pkg-libc6.6-6.so.4.5
[06:00] <hunger> pitti: Downgrading helps.
[06:00] <cjwatson> iwj: awooga
[06:01] <mathiaz> keescook: you can pull my tree. I've already undone the RPC:XML change.
[06:01] <keescook> mathiaz: ah!  fantastic.
[06:01] <geser> pitti: yes, downgrading dpkg to ubuntu12 helps
[06:04] <Keybuk> seb128: you know mlind's freetype/cairo/xft patches to make the font rendering prettier?  Any particular reason we don't use those after than "scary legal issues" ?
[06:06] <cjwatson> perhaps we should nobble dpkg on the mirrors so that people don't download it?
[06:07] <ogra> Keybuk, did you see Yoe's question before ?
[06:07] <Keybuk> ogra: no?
[06:07] <ogra> Keybuk, he wanted to merge patches from us back, seems patches.ubuntu.com is quite outdated atm
[06:08] <ogra> (was abou nbd, for which i can confirm two ubuntu revisions are missing)
[06:08] <Keybuk> IOError: ('http error', 302, 'Found', <httplib.HTTPMessage instance at
[06:08] <Keybuk> +0x2aaaadcc5950>)
[06:08] <Keybuk> weird
[06:09] <ScottK> Note to self: Read IRC before updating, not after. (goes to downgrade dpkg)...
[06:11] <iwj> cjwatson: Oops.
[06:11] <cjwatson> though it sounds like it's apt that's breaking not dpkg ... but still
[06:11] <iwj> mvo: AYT?
[06:11] <mvo> iwj: yes
[06:11] <iwj> mvo: See above.  You told me it would be OK :-).
[06:12] <mvo> geser: do you have a crash file
[06:13] <geser> mvo: yes
[06:13] <mvo> geser: could you file a bug with this ?
[06:13] <mvo> geser: I would like to look at this
[06:13] <geser> sure
[06:14] <iwj> mvo:   Breaks: apt (<= 0.7.6ubuntu9)    ?
[06:14] <mvo> iwj: not sure yet let me see the crash file please
[06:14] <cjwatson> will that help? it's the running apt that segfaults
[06:14] <iwj> cjwatson: That'll stop new people from getting the update.
[06:15] <iwj> And we can fix it later.
[06:15] <cjwatson> if that's the aim, we can ask IS to nobble the mirrors
[06:15] <cjwatson> i.e. chmod 000
[06:15] <ScottK> mvo: Do you want more than one crash file?
[06:15] <iwj> cjwatson: If that's an approved route then yes, we should do that.
[06:15] <mvo> iwj: yes, I think that is the problem, let me fix apt
[06:15] <cjwatson> iwj: if it isn't going to impede you and mvo fixing the problem, I think it's a plan
[06:16] <cjwatson> mvo: confirm?
[06:16] <iwj> cjwatson: Go for it.
[06:16] <mvo> cjwatson: yes
[06:17] <iwj> mvo: When you have an idea what the problem is please let me know and I may be able to make the output something that the old apt won't mind.
[06:17] <iwj> (And test this fact, this time.)
[06:17] <geser> mvo: bug #140737
[06:17] <ubotu> Bug 140737 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/140737 is private
[06:18] <mvo> iwj: the problem is a bug in the parser, if you just send a ":" at the end it should no longer crash
[06:19] <cjwatson> iwj,mvo: <elmo> done
[06:19] <geser> pitti: could you give back nautilus on amd64? thanks
[06:19] <iwj> mvo: Can I send a : between the two words ?
[06:19] <mvo> iwj: yes
[06:19] <iwj> OK, will try that.
[06:19] <Keybuk> ogra: the Debian mirror we're using is broken
[06:20] <ogra> oh, ok
[06:20] <Keybuk> elmo: what's a good mirror?
[06:20] <elmo> Keybuk: err?
[06:20] <elmo> Keybuk: define good?
[06:21] <Keybuk> elmo: one that isn't broken
[06:21] <Keybuk> using ftp.se and it returns 302 found for the first package
[06:23] <keescook> pitti: looking at the source, dh_perl doesn't seem to actually add perl module depends -- it's just for the perl depend itself.
[06:24] <cjwatson> right, that's been known for a long time, you have to do perl module deps yourself
[06:25] <cjwatson> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=49287
[06:25] <ubotu> Debian bug 49287 in debhelper "debhelper: dh_perl should work the same magic lintian does" [Wishlist,Open] 
[06:25] <cjwatson> (tagged wontfix)
[06:25] <keescook> cjwatson: ah, bummer.
[06:25] <iwj> mvo, cjwatson: 1.14.5ubuntu14 on the way
[06:26] <cjwatson> iwj: I'll accelerate the publisher
[06:26] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: does the topic mean that now the new dpkg upload has been pulled?  or just that people should avoid it?
[06:26] <iwj> I tested it the old apt and it obligingly dumped core, and this dpkg fixed it.
[06:27] <iwj> Hobbsee: Both.  The pulling may not take effect instantaneously everywhere.
[06:27] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: $ wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/dpkg/dpkg_1.14.5ubuntu13_i386.deb
[06:27] <cjwatson> 17:27:15 ERROR 403: Forbidden.
[06:27] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: rock on.
[06:27] <cjwatson> it won't affect mirrors that have already mirrored it, but hopefully not many have, and it will prevent further mirroring
[06:27] <Hobbsee> true
[06:28] <cjwatson> it's the thing we use for busted stable updates
[06:28] <Hobbsee> yeah - i just didnt realise what in particular you were doing to it
[06:29] <mvo> iwj: thanks a lot and sorry for this :( I have a fixed apt now that is robust against this
[06:29] <iwj> NP
[06:30] <iwj> OMG 3 bugs already ...
[06:32] <Nafallo> I wonder why...
[06:32] <Nafallo> :-P
[06:34] <dholbach> ogra: will you update gnome-screensaver too?
[06:34] <keescook> pitti, mathiaz: apparmor_2.1+993-0ubuntu1 pushed and published.
[06:34] <pitti> yay
[06:34] <ogra> dholbach, yes, i was just looking into some pam issues with it (ther were non exisiting actually, since i looked at the wrong binary) ... its ready for upload
[06:35] <ogra> s/ther/they/
[06:35] <dholbach> ogra: rock on
[06:35] <ogra> uploading ...
[06:35] <ogra> :)
[06:38] <dholbach> keescook: can you take a look at bug 138247?
[06:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138247 in lirc "Lirc doesn't support Home-brew serial-port driver Igor Cesko's variation" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/138247
[06:38] <cjwatson> iwj: hmm. I do hope that the buildds won't attempt to upgrade dpkg while building dpkg ...
[06:38] <iwj> *snort*
[06:39] <cjwatson> they normally try
[06:39] <cjwatson> bugger
[06:39] <Hobbsee> ....wow
[06:39] <alex-weej> man, APT is buggered
[06:39] <Hobbsee> i would have thought there'd be a check against that now?
[06:39] <Hobbsee> alex-weej: /topic, by any chance?
[06:40] <Hobbsee> it's about time we had segfaulting apt, though.
[06:40] <Hobbsee> seeing as we havent since dapper or so
[06:40] <song> so much people.
[06:40] <alex-weej> ooo
[06:40] <keescook> dholbach: yup, I was waiting on feedback from superman1 about it.
[06:41] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: the buildds upgrade the whole base system before starting, which is normally the right thing to do
[06:41] <Mirv> cjwatson: ber-great! (ubiguity-gtk) works for me with the patch, too! so, it's now as good i18n-wise (maybe little better) as feisty was. I will, though, file bugs of the remaining issues still, namely most of manual partitioning and advanced dialogs (including "advanced" button) plus there's the existing bug about the last step's "Install" button.
[06:41] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: exactly - but you'd have thought there would be a check in there to not try to upgrade what it was about to build.
[06:41] <iwj> I've not had a build fail email yet.
[06:41] <dholbach> keescook: thanks a lot - shall I subscribe you to it?
[06:42] <cjwatson> Mirv: excellent. strange, I thought I'd fixed the partitioning and advanced stuff in my last changes
[06:42] <keescook> dholbach: I'm already a package contact for lirc  :)
[06:42] <cjwatson> iwj: it's not got that far, no build records yet
[06:42] <dholbach> keescook: ok I'll shut up then - just wanted to know if you're on it
[06:42] <cjwatson> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dpkg/1.14.5ubuntu14
[06:42] <keescook> dholbach: I am, yup.  thanks for checking on it.
[06:42] <cjwatson> I've asked infinity on IRC for help
[06:44] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: such a check wouldn't be universally correct
[06:44] <mathiaz> keescook: great ! Thanks.
[06:44] <cjwatson> Hobbsee: in fact I'd guess it's more often correct to upgrade than not
[06:44] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: i was thinking of packages at a particular priority, maybe.  unsure.
[06:44] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: it's gone 2am.  do you expect me to be logical?
[06:44] <cjwatson> :-)
[06:45] <Amaranth> gone 2am?
[06:45] <song> hello everyone
[06:46] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: yes.  i'm australian.
[06:47] <song> i'm Chinese
[06:47] <Hobbsee> Amaranth: (thank goodness for holidays)
[06:47] <desrt> i'm canadian
[06:47] <desrt> a/s/l?
[06:47] <desrt> anyone wanna cyber?
[06:47] <cjwatson> ok (while I know desrt is joking) this is not a chat channel
[06:48] <desrt> cjwatson doesn't want to cyber :(
[06:48] <Hobbsee> poor desrt
[06:49] <song> i'm sorry but this channel have 246 peoples
[06:50] <Mirv> cjwatson: ok, apparently not yet completely. column titles and "New partition table" untranslated, pop-contest + window title + "Install boot loader" in advanced. but if you only now marked them translatable, the new strings should probably be put to Rosetta?
[06:50] <cjwatson> song: which is why it is important that people exercise self-restraint and try to keep discussion to Ubuntu development
[06:51] <cjwatson> Mirv: oh, those are probably just waiting for a cycle through Rosetta - most of them should be automatically translated due to matching strings in the rest of d-i
[06:51] <cjwatson> I'll ask for an updated import
[06:52] <cjwatson> Mirv: popularity-contest is a genuine changed string
[06:53] <cjwatson> (removed question mark)
[06:53] <Mirv> cjwatson: yep, thanks, great. it'll leave the final "Install" button. for those languages I know, it's fine with the string on the desktop / Administration menu, but if it's not sure if the same "Install" string can be used for all languages, I'm not sure how to resolve that problem
[06:54] <cjwatson> I'll have to do the [ ]  po-debconf trick I think
[06:55] <Mirv> okay... anyway, thanks for everything, it's great to have mostly localized installer for the beta
[06:55] <cjwatson> thanks for noticing the breakage and hassling us until it got fixed :)
[06:58] <alex-weej> desrt: 12cybr?
[06:59] <Hobbsee> alex-weej: ...if you hadnt noticed, cjwatson's not in a happy mood today.
[06:59] <desrt> alex-weej; ya.  maybe elsewhere :)
[06:59] <alex-weej> #gnome-hackers, where we can "express" ourselves... hmph!
[07:00] <alex-weej> ok i stfu now
[07:00] <mathiaz> pitti: I've updated cupsys apparmor profile and attached it to bug 139665.
[07:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 139665 in cupsys "apparmor profile error messages" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139665
[07:00] <wolfe> so many bugs :/
[07:01] <bddebian> No kidding :-(
[07:01] <pitti> mathiaz: eek, I was specifically trying to avoid dac_override and dac_read_search
[07:02] <pitti> mathiaz: and I don't see why cupsd would need /dev/tty* access; I simply ignored those messages
[07:02] <mathiaz> pitti: apparently it's needed with cup-pdf
[07:03] <geser> pitti: could you give back nautilus on amd64? thanks
[07:03] <mathiaz> pitti: hum.. I see your point.
[07:03] <mathiaz> pitti: OTOH it will keep showing in the logs.
[07:04] <pitti> mathiaz: I fixed /etc/papersize access yesterday
[07:04] <pitti> +  /etc/password m,
[07:04] <pitti> mathiaz: ^ that's "passwd", I take it?
[07:04] <pitti> geser: done
[07:05] <mathiaz> pitti: at some point, I'd like to package the gnome applet
[07:05] <mathiaz> pitti: yes it's /etc/passwd
[07:05] <pitti> mathiaz: I'd rather patch the cupsys source to not fiddle with /dev/tty in the first place, I think
[07:05] <mathiaz> pitti: so if we ignore messages, they'll keep showing up in the applet
[07:05] <mathiaz> pitti: ok. WFM.
[07:06] <pitti> mathiaz: is there any way to find out which particular file operation triggered the need for DAC overriding?
[07:07] <mathiaz> pitti: hum... Not that I know of.
[07:07] <cjwatson> Mithrandir: re bug 139583, since I'm in linux-meta anyway - do you want linux-lpia to depend on the restricted modules on lpia? they seem to exist at least
[07:07] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 139583 in linux-meta "linux doesn't depend on lum on lpia" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139583
[07:07] <cjwatson> hmm, though empty
[07:07] <cjwatson> I guess I'll do it then, can't hurt
[07:08] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: yes, please.
[07:15] <pitti> keescook, mathiaz: didn't we agree to having a list of 'upstream microreleases are ok' exceptions for SRU?
[07:15] <pitti> keescook, mathiaz: I can't find it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates
[07:16] <pitti> there are new postgresql microreleases I'd like to get to -proposed
[07:16] <mathiaz> pitti: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates/MicroReleaseExceptions
[07:16] <pitti> mathiaz: ah, thanks! I'll link it to the main SRU page
[07:17] <cjwatson> pitti: I'm sure I saw that linked already
[07:18] <cjwatson> 60 2007-08-20 22:02:40 10163 ( )( ) KeesCook            link to microreleaseexceptions                                                     view raw print
[07:18] <pitti> ah, it's in step 2
[07:19] <mathiaz> pitti: yeah.. it's burried in the text.
[07:20] <mathiaz> pitti: maybe linking to it from the When section would help
[07:21] <mathiaz> ajmitch: as you're working on a new samba for gutsy, would you consider fixing bug 133932 ?
[07:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 133932 in samba "Samba is not configured for using CUPS by default" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133932
[07:21] <pitti> mathiaz: I thought about linking from the 'exceptions' section
[07:21] <pitti> mathiaz: but that's good enough
[07:22] <mathiaz> ajmitch: it's milestoned for the beta release.
[07:22] <pitti> mathiaz: I was just looking for a policy to justify my new psql :)
[07:23] <mathiaz> pitti: well... The way I found it is because I was searching StableRelease in the wiki
[07:23] <mathiaz> pitti: and it showed up in the results
[07:23] <pitti> alright
[07:23] <pitti> thanks, bbl
[07:28] <cjwatson> iwj: hmm, I guess we got lucky, dpkg built successfully despite upgrading to the broken version
[07:29] <cjwatson> (which it could get at because it upgrades from the master machine rather than archive.u.c)
[07:30] <cjwatson> publishing new dpkg now
[07:30] <cjwatson> (binaries)
[07:31] <Treenaks> ooh.. I was just going to grep my logs to see why it broke :)
[07:33] <siretart> when is ftp-admin days?
[07:34] <Riddell> siretart: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/ArchiveAdministration
[07:34] <siretart> uuh, kubuntu.org?
[07:34] <siretart> thanks Riddell
[07:35] <Riddell> but it's not necessarily accurate, e.g. I'm on holiday and Mithrandir is usually too busy and admins may not do all of admin tasks on their day
[07:35] <siretart> oh
[07:35] <siretart> I was just about to ask you to remove 'fai-kernels' and 'xine-extracodecs' from gutsy, but not when you're on holyday ;)
[07:37] <Riddell> I've never deleted packages before, I should read up on it
[07:41] <seb128> ogra: not sure about the pam option
[07:41] <seb128> MacSlow: cool
[07:42] <Riddell> siretart: got bug numbers for those requests?
[07:42] <siretart> Riddell: not yet, that's why I wanted ot ask when archive days are first
[07:42] <MacSlow> seb128, and we found a tiny bug in libcompizconfig
[07:42] <seb128> MacSlow: and fixed it? ;)
[07:43] <ogra> seb128, ogra@laptop:~$ ldd /usr/lib/gnome-screensaver/gnome-screensaver-dialog |grep pam        libpam.so.0 => /lib/libpam.so.0 (0xb7b2d000)
[07:43] <ogra> i was just looking at the wrong binary :)
[07:43] <seb128> good
[07:44] <MacSlow> seb128, not yet... but I'll do it... or Dennis
[07:44] <Riddell> siretart: I can delete them now if you tell me why they should go and if it's source and binary which should go
[07:45] <\sh> I think fai-kernels is obsolete, because it works now with the default kernels, right?
[07:52] <siretart> Riddell: fai-kernels is obsolete and not needed anymore with fai 3.2. it contained old, unsupportable ancient kernel versions
[07:53] <siretart> Riddell: xine-extracodecs contained was is now in libxine1-ffmpeg. it is terribly outdated and abandoned. just junk lying around, not usable by anyone
[07:59] <Riddell> siretart: both gone
[07:59] <siretart> yay. thanks! :)
[08:04] <sladen> groovy, NetworkManager *doesn't even start* now
[08:05] <pochu> jdong: could you please take a look at bug 135171? It has tried to backport tracker for 3 times, all of which it has failed because it tries to install old packages...
[08:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135171 in feisty-backports "Please backport tracker 0.6.1-0ubuntu1 from Gutsy to Feisty" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135171
[08:07] <jdong> pochu: ok, pbuilder needs updating love, will deal with it
[08:07] <pochu> jdong: thanks :) and if you can retry the backport... ;)
[08:08] <jdong> k
[08:09] <elmo> ogra: what's the default screensaver for gutsy?
[08:10] <ogra> elmo, should be the floating ubuntu logo
[08:10] <ogra> i didnt change anything vs feisty
[08:11] <elmo> ogra: hmm, seems to be blank in this vanilla gutsy install I did on this laptop
[08:12] <ogra> do you see it in the preview if you select it there explicitly ?
[08:12] <elmo> ogra: yes
[08:13] <ogra> hmm, weird, i`ll inspect that ... thanks for the pointer
[08:15] <ogra> elmo, can you: grep Float /usr/share/gconf/defaults/10_gnome-screensaver ?
[08:16] <elmo> /apps/gnome-screensaver/theme "Floating Ubuntu"
[08:17] <ogra> looks sane ... must be mneptok's fault then, its his patch :P
[08:20] <ogra> elmo, ah, seems gss changed the theme handling internally the name must be screensaver-<basename of .desktop file> now (screensaver-ubuntu_theme in this case), thanks again, will fix now
[08:24] <mlind_> hi, could one of the buildd admins trigger rebuilds of previously FTBFS packages in the archive which are described in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/102037/comments/7. thanks.
[08:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 102037 in debian "[New Package Freeze Upstream]  maven2-2.0.7" [Unknown,Fix released] 
[08:27] <Keybuk> Rejected:
[08:27] <Keybuk> No copyright file found.
[08:27] <Keybuk> ?
[08:28] <Keybuk> Soyuz bug?
[08:29] <evand> Just out of curiosity, what's the plan for nvidia systems with the black windows (memory exhaustion) bug?
[08:31] <seb128> Keybuk: bug #134567
[08:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134567 in soyuz "having a debian/copyright should not be a requirement" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134567
[08:32] <DexterF> hi
[08:32] <elmo> should tracker-utils be installed by default?
[08:33] <seb128> elmo: it's not at the moment no, but it's small enough, do you think that would be nicer for standard desktop users?
[08:34] <seb128> Keybuk: dunno about those better rendering patches but I see that you uploaded a patched cairo, good ;)
[08:34] <DexterF> if anyone cares: feisty comes with xfe 0.88 (file manager). that one compiles against fox 1.4 and doesn't support unicode which is kinda bogus on a utf8 based distro. besides, it regularly complains about /var/shm/run.lock or so not responding. deosn't do that on debian etch or slackware 11/12
[08:34] <Keybuk> seb128: is just the trio of freetype patches that mlind already packaged
[08:35] <elmo> seb128: I dunno maybe not - I was just curious about the 'is tracker still indexing thing?' and the default answer appears to be 'run tracker-status'
[08:35] <elmo> seb128: maybe that's not something a normal desktop user should/would care about
[08:35] <Keybuk> one to cairo, one to freetype (that iirc just changes a #define to use the cairo bits) and one to xft
[08:35] <seb128> elmo: right, ideally tracker-utils should not be required and things should just work, but it can be handy to know what's going on
[08:36] <lamzaks> I hawe one question about ubuntu server eddition
[08:37] <elmo> also, Documents appears in 'Places' twice in this fairly fresh gutsy install
[08:37] <sladen> elmo: and in this upgrade
[08:41] <cjwatson> seb128: though the sorts of things in tracker-utils seem like roughly the kind of thing you'd want in order to implement locate on top of tracker
[08:42] <elmo> should I file a bug about the Places thing?  if, so any hint as to on which package?
[08:44] <seb128> cjwatson: locate on top of tracker doesn't seem easy to do with the current design since tracker only index the files for your user
[08:45] <seb128> elmo: that's a known issue and it's on the gutsy beta list, I'll try to fix it when GNOME 2.20 is fully packaged (which should be soon now)
[08:45] <seb128> elmo: bug #122602
[08:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122602 in gnome-panel "Duplicated entries in Places Menu" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122602
[08:46] <elmo> seb128: ah, ok, thanks
[08:49] <cjwatson> seb128: and also /usr/share/applications and /usr/share/*/applications apparently
[08:49] <cjwatson> but OK, it would be quite a bit of per-user data
[09:03] <hjmills> what do I need to install after debootstrapping to get a normal ubuntu desktop? I already have ubuntu-desktop, grub and a kernel. Is there anything else?
[09:04] <cjwatson> ubuntu-standard as well
[09:04] <EvanCarroll> the lang pack i don't think is included in ubuntu-desktop
[09:04] <cjwatson> and any appropriate language packs (language-pack-* and language-support-*)
[09:04] <cjwatson> otherwise that should be about it
[09:04] <hjmills> cjwatson, thanks
[09:05] <hjmills> EvanCarroll, thanks
[09:06] <hjmills> does ubuntu-standard just get you to a command line system?
[09:06] <EvanCarroll> yep.
[09:07] <EvanCarroll> ubuntu-standard is the new ubuntu-base and ubuntu-minimal iirc
[09:07] <hjmills> my cd drive is on the way out so installs are dodgy so I'm planning to setup a partition with ubuntu so I can get web access and debootstrap the other partitions when I need to upgrade
[09:07] <hjmills> EvanCarroll, thanks
[09:07] <EvanCarroll> which are used as the servers ubuntu-desktop of sort. meta packages that kill the basics
[09:08] <gnomefreak> is there a known problem with dpkg seg faulting on upgrade to gutsy?
[09:08] <ogra> gnomefreak, /topic
[09:09] <gnomefreak> oh god right when i format :(
[09:09] <gnomefreak> ty ogra
[09:09] <ScottK> ubuntu14 is out and fixes it (at least for me) though.
[09:11] <gnomefreak> ScottK: dpkg?
[09:11] <ScottK> Yes
[09:11] <gnomefreak> i still have ubuntu13 here
[09:12] <cjwatson> EvanCarroll: ubuntu-base was split into ubuntu-minimal and ubuntu-standard
[09:12] <ScottK> I guess wait for your mirror to update than.
[09:12] <ScottK> than/then
[09:12] <cjwatson> in order that debootstrap was smaller
[09:12] <cjwatson> gnomefreak: wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/main/d/dpkg/dpkg_1.14.5ubuntu14_i386.deb && sudo dpkg -i dpkg_1.14.5ubuntu14_i386.deb
[09:12] <gnomefreak> cjwatson: ty
[09:13] <soren> wtf...
[09:13] <soren> My sbuild's output is in all uppercase?
[09:13] <soren> UNPACKING ESOUND-COMMON (FROM .../ESOUND-COMMON_0.2.38-0UBUNTU3_ALL.DEB) ...
[09:14] <EvanCarroll> soren: don't log in with caps.
[09:14] <soren> EvanCarroll: I'm not.
[09:14] <ogra> pull out the earplugs ?
[09:14] <soren> ogra: :p
[09:14] <ogra> so your machine doesnt think it needs to shout at you
[09:14] <gnomefreak> cjwatson: ScottK works like a charm ty
[09:15] <ion_> ti110220 < StevenK> SELECTING PREVIOUSLY DESELECTED PACKAGE X11-COMMON.
[09:15] <ion_> Youre not alone.
[09:16] <LaserJock> soren: it *really* wants you to know what it's doing
[09:17] <soren> That is really.. odd.
[09:18] <soren> It's like something "stty olcuc"'ed it.
[09:21] <soren> Hmm.... The build log is in uppercase, too.
[09:21] <soren> Now, *that* is weird.
[09:21] <ogra> kernel i guess then
[09:22] <ogra> we had such things before ... at least on tty consoles
[09:22] <soren> No, that's not right.
[09:23] <soren> sbuild acts normally until it's done fetching packages with apt-get. As soon as it starts installing the first package, it switches to uppercase.
[09:23] <soren> When it leaves sbuild againt, it switches back to lowercase.
[09:24] <soren> No, actually, it goes back to lowercase as soon as apt-get finishes.
[09:25] <mvo> cjwatson: the app-install-data package got updated and upload, thanks for your earlier reminder
[09:27] <soren> StevenK: Did you figure out the odd upper case output stuff from apt-get?
[09:27] <soren> StevenK: Well.. From dpkg, actually.
[09:35] <mako> i tried to make a payment
[09:35] <mako> wrong channel, sorry :)
[09:40] <LaserJock> mako: you can send it to me, it'll work I asure you ;-)
[09:54] <fbond> Hi, I have created a usplash theme, however, my pixmap appears offset down and to the right, rather than displaying flush against the upper-left corner.  Ideas?
[10:07] <fbond> Nevermind, seems to be caused by the presence of a vga= kernel command-line option.
[10:39] <tormod> mjg59: do you have time to look at (or just upload) 127273?
[10:45] <TU> i've most definatly found a bug.
[10:45] <TU> i added a preappend to the bottom of my dhcp3.conf file and it does add them to ALL the /etc/resolv.conf and lookups are STILL slow
[10:46] <tormod> TU: please file a bug report
[10:46] <TU> i don't want  to file a bug report i want a fix.
[10:46] <TU> then i can file a bug report heh
[10:46] <ion_> Huh?
[10:47] <tormod> TU, please ask in #ubuntu instead
[10:51] <TU> No. Look.
[10:51] <TU> this is DEFINATLY a bug.
[10:51] <TU> i've been screwing with this for a week
[10:51] <TU> there is no way to fix it.
[10:51] <TU> there seems to be NO WAY to change the DNS servers ubuntu is using
[10:51] <TU> thats a problem.
[10:52] <seb128> TU: this is not a support channel
[10:52] <seb128> if you found a bug use launchpad to report it
[10:53] <TU> fine.
[11:02] <seb128> calc: do you know why openoffice is not upgradable on powerpc and if that will be fixed?
[11:03] <calc> seb128: no don't know about that problem :(
[11:03] <calc> seb128: i will try to look into it soon if there isn't a detailed bug about it yet
 seb128,  openoffice.org-common: Depends: openoffice.org-core (> 1:2.3.0~rc1) but 1:2.3.0~oog680m1-1ubuntu3 is to be installed
[11:04] <calc> oh
[11:04] <calc> probably rc1 never compiled on powerpc then
[11:06] <calc> seb128: build failed due to timeout at 600min
[11:06] <calc> seb128: not sure why it hung though
[11:06] <calc> seb128: i'll see how it does when i upload 2.3.0 final soonish
[11:07] <seb128> ok, thanks
[11:16] <ogra> seb128, any idea why the gnome menu doesnt use the distributor-logo icon anymore ?
[11:16] <seb128> it does?
[11:16] <ogra> no it doesnt, but it did :)
[11:17] <sbalneav> That's DEFINATLY a bug.
[11:17] <ogra> currently i have the ubuntu logo in it
[11:17] <seb128> the Ubuntu logo is correctly displayed there
[11:17] <ogra> yeah
[11:17] <seb128> which is correct? ;)
[11:17] <ogra> thats my prob :)
[11:17] <ogra> i want the edubuntu logo
[11:17] <ogra> which is fine displayed in about ubuntu and about edubuntu (we wanted to fix that, need to talk about it in boston)
[11:18] <ogra> the menu used to use the logo as well ...
[11:18] <seb128> ogra: it uses the "start-here" icon
[11:18] <ogra> aha
[11:18] <ogra> will it follow links ?
[11:18] <seb128> yes
[11:18] <ogra> good :)
[11:18] <ogra> thanks
[11:18] <seb128> /usr/share/icons/Human/scalable/places/distributor-logo.svg -> start-here.svg
[11:19] <seb128> we could use distributor-logo
[11:19] <seb128> but I think it's better to update your icon theme
[11:19] <ogra> we did that until feisty afaik
[11:19] <seb128> right
[11:19] <seb128> upstream changed
[11:19] <ogra> ah, k
[11:19] <ogra> lets go with upstream then :)
[11:19] <seb128> start-here is probably the new naming spec convention
[11:20] <ogra> ah, gartoon doesnt even have /places
[11:25] <LaserJock> anybody try IBM's new office suite yet?
[11:26] <J-diddy> if it's not openoffice with a different splash screen, let me know
[11:26] <J-diddy> I'd love to give it a shot
[11:26] <ogra> now my panel looks beautiful again :)
[11:27] <LaserJock> J-diddy: the screenshots look a bit different, but I'm not sure how different it actually is
[11:27] <J-diddy> cool
[11:40] <TomaszD> can anyone be of any assistance? I'm really puzzled. Running gutsy current on a SiS630 laptop. When I try to run glxinfo it tells me that (I think) the SiS driver is outdated.
[11:40] <TomaszD> SiS DRI driver expected DDX version 0-0.8.x but got version 0.7.1
[11:41] <Nafallo> bryce
[11:43] <bryce> TomaszD: sounds like you need a newer xserver-xorg-video-sis.
[11:44] <TomaszD> bryce, sounds like it yes. This is a standard ubuntu gutsy distribution, so I guess this is a serious bug
[11:44] <TomaszD> bryce, is there a launchpad group I could assing this bug to?
[11:45] <bryce> xserver-xorg-video-sis
[11:45] <TomaszD> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-sis/+bug/118325
[11:45] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 118325 in xserver-xorg-video-sis "sis dri DDX interface outdated" [Undecided,Confirmed] 
[11:47] <bryce> doesn't look like they've fixed it upstream yet - http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=xorg/driver/xf86-video-sis.git
[11:47] <bryce> so no newer -sis is available
[11:48] <bryce> TomaszD: what version of the -sis driver do you have installed?
[11:48] <bryce> dpkg-query -l xserver-xorg-video-sis
[11:49] <TomaszD> bryce, 1:0.9.3-2
[11:53] <TomaszD> doh, this whole gutsy is a real downgrade for me if dri won't work. Of course it's not gutsy's fault, it's just a shame that not all the drivers have been updated for xorg 1.3 ...
[11:54] <bryce> TomaszD: they have.  There is no newer version of -sis available beyond 0.9.3
[11:55] <TomaszD> bryce, I meant the xorg developers, not you guys :]  You guys do an amazing job, it's not your fault
[11:56] <TomaszD> it doesn't even seem that a current git version of the driver would work
[11:56] <bryce> right
[11:56] <bryce> what version of mesa do you have installed?  7.0.1?
[11:56] <TomaszD> bryce, yes
[11:57] <bryce> hrm
[11:59] <TomaszD> bryce, ?
[12:01] <bryce> oh, just wondering where the "libGL ... 0.7.1 sis" comes from
[12:05] <bryce> TomaszD: sorry, I'm not certain what needs updated to get rid of that error.  If you discover something though, please let me know.
[12:06] <bryce> I suspect something needs updated in mesa, but can't tell for sure
[12:12] <tormod> keescook: remember that bug #127273? I am afraid mjg59 is too busy before beta to upload it, from what it seems. He basically said it was fine now though.
[12:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127273 in laptop-mode-tools "laptop-mode init script links not created" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127273
[12:14] <keescook> tormod: okay, I will get it uploaded in a bit.  Thanks for the reminder!
[12:15] <tormod> keescook: thanks for taking care of it!
[12:20] <keescook> tormod: doesn't dpkg naturally take care of removing those files?
[12:20] <keescook> (or, why is the explicit remove needed?)
[12:20] <mjg59> keescook: Conffiles
[12:20] <tormod> keescook: for some reason they are not. yes conffiles I guess. The whole debian package is not perfect.
[12:20] <keescook> mjg59: ah, so it'll leave them behind due to being in /etc?  Cool.  so mjg59, the new debdiff is okay?
[12:20] <mjg59> Yeah, looks fine
[12:21] <keescook> tormod: uploaded.  :)
[12:21] <tormod> keescook: thanks
[12:22] <tormod> mjg59: I know that shipping laptop-mode-tools as default is controversial, but now the package works more like it is supposed to at least.
[12:22] <mjg59> tormod: Yeah
[12:22] <mjg59> In the future there will be sanity
[12:22] <mjg59> And robots
[12:22] <keescook> though, ironically, the robots will probably be insane.
[12:23] <mjg59> It's ok, they'll be running rtl8180s and we'll have accidently lost the driver