[12:55] <ubotu> New bug: #140818 in launchpad "Reset the socket default timeout in test setup harness" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140818
[01:00] <ubotu> New bug: #140817 in launchpad "The librarian reconnects too often (and takes too long to do so)" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140817
[06:25] <kgoetz> hi all. i just got an oops out of launchpad trying to file a bug. waited a few min and tried again with teh same result.
[06:25] <kgoetz> apart from joining the lp list, any thoughts?
[06:41] <kgoetz> just got the report through
[06:56] <ubotu> New bug: #140864 in ubuntu "Not all Minnesota Team members are on ML" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140864
[06:56] <tonyyarusso> grr
[06:56] <tonyyarusso> wait on that - trying to make something more sane
[07:00] <tonyyarusso> all right, still affects Launchpad due to the bug mentioned within the description, but marked Invalid for Ubuntu; transferred to team-specific project
[08:35] <carlos> morning
[08:51] <elmargol> I try to build a feisty package on PPA. My package need a package from universe. So I added Section: universe/devel do my debian/control file
[08:51] <elmargol> And it still fails :(
[08:52] <elmargol> Do I have to set this on every Package: or only on the Source: section?
[09:40] <TomaszD> carlos, I was guided to have a word with you about an issue. It seems that translations for bluez-gnome and tracker are not loaded at all, apart from the desktop entries. Against what should I report this?
[09:40] <carlos> TomaszD: hi
[09:41] <carlos> it depends on why is that happening
[09:41] <carlos> let me check...
[09:41] <TomaszD> carlos, hi, I have no idea so I don't know whose fault is this
[09:41] <carlos> don't worry, I'm able to discover it
[09:42] <TomaszD> carlos, while we're at it, are there really no daily language packs for gutsy?
[09:42] <carlos> TomaszD: due to technical problems it's done twice per week, Martin Pitt is enabled it again recently (it was turned off for a couple of weeks due to the changes in the new PPA infrastructure)
[09:43] <TomaszD> carlos, so the ppa.dogfood.launchpad something repository is operational again?
[09:44] <carlos> I think the url changed, you will need to check it with pitti directly
[09:44] <TomaszD> carlos, right, thanks. This is not urgent, however the other one (bluez-gnome, tracker) is :] 
[09:45] <carlos> tracker seems like only got translations yesterday
[09:45] <carlos> I'm approving it now and should appear any time between today and tomorrow
[09:46] <TomaszD> carlos, and bluez-gnome? :] 
[09:46] <carlos> working on it...
[09:46] <carlos> I only have one keyboard and a couple of hands! :-P
[09:47] <TomaszD> lol
[09:47] <carlos> ok, this one is our fault, the .pot file has been available for a while but we didn't approve it yet, I'm going to approve it now
[09:48] <TomaszD> carlos, is there still a seven-day backlog of translation uploads? 
[09:48] <carlos> no
[09:48] <TomaszD> my last upload took 6,5 days to get to rosetta
[09:48] <carlos> it's just some hours now
[09:49] <TomaszD> ok
[09:49] <carlos> in concrete, 10 hours
[09:50] <TomaszD> carlos, so it also takes 10 hours between a new version of an application to gutsy (namely, restricted-manager) and an update in Rosetta to reflect new strings?
[09:51] <TomaszD> new version of an application *upload
[09:51] <carlos> I don't expect that it would take 10 hours (restricted-manager is a bad example because it's not updated automatically yet)
[09:51] <carlos> that only means that, right now, we are importing files uploaded 10 hours ago
[09:52] <carlos> but the imports go faster now, so maybe in 15 minutes it would be handling the ones imported 8 hours ago
[09:52] <carlos> until the import queue is empty so it will become mostly real time again
[09:53] <TomaszD> carlos, ah, so I would commend to update restricted-manager as the new 0.31 version has absolutely trashed the previous strings and it needs to be done all over again :P
[09:53] <carlos> hmm, sorry, I did a mistake, for Gutsy we still have a day of backlog (I was looking to Dapper's entries...)
[09:53] <carlos> TomaszD: I did an update on Monday
[09:54] <carlos> TomaszD: is that something that changed since then?
[09:54] <TomaszD> carlos, let me see
[09:54] <TomaszD> carlos, yes, 0.31 has been uploaded 20 hrs ago
[09:54] <TomaszD> so it needs an update
[09:54] <carlos> ok
[09:55] <TomaszD> wow, there surely is a communication or technical problem somewhere on the way, or both. Strange that this is done manually, too much room for an error
[09:56] <carlos> well, the problem is that we only support main packages 
[09:56] <carlos> and that application moved recently to restricted archive
[09:56] <TomaszD> ah, ok
[09:56] <carlos> and we need to do some changes in Launchpad to be able to handle it
[09:56] <carlos> which should be ready with next launchpad update at the end of October
[09:58] <TomaszD> ahm
[10:15] <mrevell> morning all!
[10:28] <TomaszD> carlos, you still there? Could you check xdg-user-dirs? Because this doesn't seem to pick the translations up as well
[10:28] <carlos> yeah, I'm here (I just started my working day a couple of hours ago :-P)
[10:28] <carlos> sure, let me check...
[10:30] <carlos> TomaszD: I don't see anything wrong with that, last update was at the end of August
[10:30] <carlos> TomaszD: just to be sure you are not confused by the behaviour of that package
[10:30] <ubotu> New bug: #140897 in launchpad "launchpad keeps changing domain names and cookie names which logs me out" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140897
[10:30] <carlos> TomaszD: if the translation changes after you initialise your session the first time
[10:30] <carlos> you don't get it updated
[10:31] <carlos> so if you got it untranslated, it will be keep untranslated for that already existing profile
[10:31] <carlos> only new ones will get the new translation
[10:31] <TomaszD> carlos, so the problem lies with ubiquity not getting translation packs during installation
[10:31] <TomaszD> but I heard this will be fixed
[10:32] <carlos> hmm, that's outside the scope of my knowledge
[10:32] <TomaszD> right, nevermind :] 
[10:32] <carlos> it would be that (which sounds like a bug)
[10:32] <TomaszD> yes the bug is known
[10:32] <carlos> or that it was not translated at the time you did the installation
[10:32] <carlos> ok
[11:18] <TomaszD> carlos, when there's a package upload, say 2.19.2 -> 2.20.0, when that new package contains new translations they are not being picked up, but the language pack that will be uploaded later will contain the new translations? is that how this works?
[11:18] <carlos> yes
[11:20] <TomaszD> carlos, alright, could you look up gnome-panel? Fully translated in rosetta but there's something missing in gutsy, namely "Home Folder" string isn't translated
[11:26] <yeager> i guess the latest POTs are not uploaded yet
[11:30] <yeager> i still wait for a feisty -> gutsy translation sync, especially (k)ubuntu-docs
[11:35] <TomaszD> hmm ok
[11:35] <carlos> yeager: the code is done, that's being tested to be sure it will not produce any performance problem in other parts of Launchpad
[11:35] <carlos> so it should happen soon and we will schedule it regularly
[11:36] <yeager> carlos: no worries, mate. i have plenty of other translation work to do in the mean time :)
[11:36] <carlos> TomaszD: about your question, there is a .pot file pending to be imported for gnome-panel
[11:37] <carlos> it was uploaded yesterday and It should be imported later today
[11:37] <TomaszD> carlos, alright
[11:37] <TomaszD> thanks
[12:11] <Emme_NK> Hi!
[12:12] <Emme_NK> which distributions and componentes are allowed for ppa uploads?
[12:13] <laga> Emme_NK: feisty and gutsy. edgy as well, i think
[12:14] <Emme_NK> I just got a reject: "Signer has no upload rights at all to this distribution" for gutsy
[12:14] <laga> Emme_NK: have you seen the quick start guide at help.launchpad.net?
[12:14] <Emme_NK> yes, but I could not find this info
[12:14] <laga> Emme_NK: are you sure you uploaded to your ppa and not to the archive?
[12:14] <Emme_NK> I have "incoming = ~emme/ubuntu/" in my .dput.cf
[12:15] <laga> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net ?
[12:15] <Emme_NK> yes, I cut&pasted the config from the wiki to my config file
[12:15] <Emme_NK> just replaced my nick
[12:15] <laga> and, how do you dput packages? are you specifying your ppa as target?
[12:16] <Emme_NK> oh no, I missed that... 
[12:16] <laga> heh
[12:16] <Emme_NK> thanks
[12:50] <mrevell> intellectronica: ping
[12:51] <intellectronica> mrevell: hi
[01:04] <slytherin> Can anyone please tell me what is expected time for removal of packages in 'Pending Removal' state in PPA?
[01:08] <laga> hey, no need to wait for an answer
[02:41] <ubotu> New bug: #140959 in launchpad "[RFE]  Automatically add keywords to PPA description based on published packages" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140959
[03:00] <ubotu> New bug: #140965 in launchpad "Intermittent import errors when running tests" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140965
[03:20] <ubotu> New bug: #140971 in rosetta "Help translate button link is broken" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140971
[04:00] <barry> avast ye launchpadlubbers!  the eu/us review team meeting be startin' now.  if ye be present, answer ahoy!
[04:00] <statik> ahoy
[04:00] <intellectronica> aye
[04:00] <sinzui> ahoy
[04:01] <flacoste> ahoy!
[04:01] <intellectronica> ehm, ahoy
[04:01] <Hobbsee> ahoy!
[04:01] <flacoste> wow, we now have an external reviewing in the team!
[04:01] <salgado> ahoy
[04:01] <BjornT> ahoy
[04:01] <Hobbsee> hiya flacoste 
[04:01] <barry> == Agenda ==   * Roll call  * Next meeting  * Queue status  * Watch out for global state changes  * Mentoring update 
[04:02] <bac> 'hoy
[04:02] <barry>  * Next meeting
[04:03] <barry> same pirate time, same pirate channel?  does anybody know they cannot make it?
[04:04] <barry> excellent.
[04:04] <barry>  * Queue status
[04:05] <barry> only 5 branches in needs-review, one is unassigned.  jamesh wins the award today with 2 branches over the sla
[04:06] <barry> the general queue looks good, only one .10 branch there
[04:06] <flacoste> Rinchen: ping
[04:06] <barry> how did you all feel about week 3 this cycle?  it seemed to go pretty smoothly from a review standpointtttttttttttt (ignoring pqm insanities)
[04:06] <Rinchen> flacoste, howdy
[04:07] <barry> did anybody have problems, comments, observations about this cycle's reviews?
[04:07] <BjornT> wasn't there some problems with people not getting their branches reviewed early enough?
[04:08] <sinzui> Week 3 was generally pain free, but as a trainee, I think a little unclear...I believe this is a topic for today
[04:08] <barry> BjornT: i think there was a bit of a mixup with some mentoring over the weekend.  i probably dropped a backup mentorship i should have done
[04:09] <barry> sinzui: can you elaborate?
[04:09] <sinzui> Is there a protocol for handing off my review to my mentor?
[04:09] <statik> sinzui: the way I did it before was to CC the mentor on the review
[04:10] <statik> sinzui: but you can hand off to me via any communication method you like
[04:10] <flacoste> we should add a 'Mentoring' section to the wiki
[04:10] <sinzui> I should have coordinated better...I decided to have no one waiting on me so I reviewed on Monday to clear my queue, but I was not mindful that statik had a busy Monday
[04:10] <bac> yes, directly CC the reviewer is good.  intellectronica has a working patch to barry's review submittal script that will cc the mentor
[04:10] <barry> flacoste: https://launchpad.canonical.com/MentorProcess
[04:11] <barry> though it could use improvement
[04:11] <flacoste> barry: cool<
[04:11] <barry> bac: should i put that script in utilities tdo you think?
[04:11] <flacoste> barry: yeah, a noticeable improvement would be to explain how to coordinate with the mentor
[04:12] <bac> barry: sure, after merging the patch.
[04:12] <barry> flacoste: good idea.  i'm not sure we have consensus about that though
[04:12] <intellectronica> i do think that it would be nice to have these scripts in the main tree, but they should probably be configurable then. i don't mind taking care of that
[04:12] <barry> intellectronica: cool, thanks
[04:13] <barry> do we all agree that the review should explicitly CC the mentor?
[04:13] <sinzui> Aye
[04:13] <flacoste> aye
[04:13] <bac> aye
[04:13] <barry> intellectronica: it might be nice if the mentor got a separate copy with [MENTOR!]  in the subject or something
[04:14] <barry> cool.  anything else?
[04:14] <barry> 5
[04:14] <intellectronica> barry: sure, nice idea
[04:14] <barry> 4
[04:14] <barry> 3
[04:15] <sinzui> committing?
[04:15] <sinzui> r=trainee,mentor?
[04:15] <sinzui> ^ is that correct?
[04:15] <bac> sinzui: we just did [r=mentor] 
[04:15] <sinzui> sorry...submitting
[04:15] <barry> sinzui: i think we generally r=trainee
[04:16] <barry> but we don't give that out until the mentor signs off
[04:16] <bac> oops [r=trainee] 
[04:16] <sinzui> thank you
[04:16] <barry> 5
[04:16] <barry> 4
[04:16] <barry> 3
[04:16] <barry> 2
[04:16] <barry> 1
[04:16] <barry>  * Watch out for global state changes
[04:17] <barry> kiko: do you want to say anything about this?  i did add a recommendation to the wiki
[04:18] <flacoste> SteveA put it nicely in his email
[04:18] <barry> flacoste: good point. did everyone read SteveA's email on this subject?
[04:18] <sinzui> pylint is knackered in our lint script though
[04:18] <flacoste> We should add to our reviewer guidelines:
[04:18] <flacoste>     If code changes global state (for example, by monkey-patching
[04:18] <flacoste>     a module's globals) then the test must be sure to restore the
[04:18] <flacoste>     previous state, either in a try:-finally: clause, or at the
[04:18] <flacoste>     end of the doctest, or in the test's tearDown hook.
[04:18] <flacoste> (that's a SteveA quote)
[04:19] <barry> sinzui: yep
[04:19] <barry> any other questions on this topic?
[04:19] <barry> 5
[04:19] <barry> 4
[04:19] <barry> 3
[04:19] <barry> 2
[04:19] <SteveA> gmb made a good point
[04:19] <barry> 1
[04:20] <SteveA> that sometimes, you use an API in the standard library
[04:20] <SteveA> and it's an API that changes global state
[04:20] <kiko> SteveA, such as messing with sys.path.
[04:20] <SteveA> so, it might not look like doing something large and permanent
[04:20] <SteveA> kiko: that's true too, although messing with sys.path looks more suspicious
[04:20] <SteveA> because it is an assignment
[04:21] <SteveA> whereas socket.setDefaultTimeout() is a method call
[04:21] <kiko> sys.path.append("..")
[04:21] <SteveA> yes
[04:21] <SteveA> my point is, it's more obvious that an append() mutates somethint
[04:21] <SteveA> and everyone should know that sys.path is deep python magic ;-)
[04:22] <kiko> "everyone" :)
[04:22] <barry> SteveA: right.  the 'Default' in setDefaultTimeout() should be a clue too though
[04:23] <barry> SteveA: cool thanks.  anything else?
[04:23] <SteveA> that's true.  the other thing there is that, at a glance, 'socket' may not look like a global module thing
[04:23] <SteveA> but more like an object -- the current socket we're dealing with
[04:24] <barry> SteveA: very true
[04:24] <SteveA> although it's weird to set a default timeout on a single socket
[04:24] <SteveA> it's easily overlooked
[04:24] <SteveA> I wrote an email today about improving pylint -- I wonder if that's possible
[04:24] <barry> SteveA: dunno, but it's a good idea
[04:24] <intellectronica> it's nice, in such cases, if you don't import objects out of the module but instead dereference them in every call
[04:24] <SteveA> I like that ruby has a clear convention in the language for flagging operations that mutate things
[04:24] <sinzui> SteveA: I was talking with thumper about this
[04:24] <SteveA> cool
[04:25] <SteveA> that's all from me.  thanks barry!
[04:25] <barry> SteveA: thanks!
[04:25] <sinzui> We need to incorporate a compatible version on pylint into out tree.
[04:25] <flacoste> SteveA: but we are not running pylint regularly on the launchpad tree?
[04:25] <barry> flacoste: no, pylint is effectively disabled in lint.sh
[04:26] <kiko> because it gives so many damned false positives.
[04:26] <statik> SteveA: ruby's bang methods aren't as helpful as they seem http://dablog.rubypal.com/2007/8/15/bang-methods-or-danger-will-rubyist
[04:26] <barry> kiko: is there any hope of making that useful (e.g. would an updated pylint help?)
[04:26] <sinzui> barry: A lot of hope.
[04:27] <kiko> barry, it really gives a lot of false positives. if you look at lint.sh, you know, I spent a long time disabling non-critical problems
[04:27] <proppy> hi
[04:27] <barry> sinzui: sounds like you've decided on your FiF project for this week :)
[04:27] <sinzui> kiko: I know, I've been running it for 6 months. I can put my mods into the script
[04:28] <sinzui> barry: I was going to do it last weakend...I have a cold.
[04:28] <kiko> sinzui, oh, by all means please do
[04:28] <proppy> how do I fill the package name for a bug assigned to Ubuntu ?
[04:28] <barry> sinzui: i think if you could get that working, it would be a huge benefit
[04:28] <kiko> proppy, if you don't know, just leave it empty.
[04:28] <barry> anything else?
[04:29] <barry> 5
[04:29] <barry> 4
[04:29] <barry> 3
[04:29] <barry> 2
[04:29] <barry> 1
[04:29] <barry>  * Mentoring update
[04:29] <barry> i think we kind of covered this already, but if there's anything else that mentors or recruits want to mention, please go4it
[04:30] <sinzui> I guess not
[04:30] <barry> 5
[04:30] <barry> 4
[04:31] <kiko> barry, I think new reviewers really suffer from lack of docs.
[04:31] <barry> 3
[04:31] <kiko> there are many gotchas and hints that experienced reviewers know
[04:31] <kiko> for instance
[04:31] <kiko> careful with config updates
[04:31] <kiko> use team participation
[04:31] <kiko> SQLObject APIs
[04:31] <kiko> I miss a checklist of things that a reviewer should check for
[04:32] <kiko> we have this for mozilla
[04:32] <kiko> jst even wrote an auto-reviewer script
[04:32] <proppy> kiko: I know what package is it, I just don't find the input for filling it
[04:32] <kiko> proppy, what page are you on?
[04:32] <barry> kiko: we have some things like that, but they're really spread out in several wiki pages, and they're often incomplete.  i totally agree with you though.
[04:32] <proppy> kiko: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/140915
[04:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 140915 in ubuntu "Please merge poker-network (1.2.0-1) from debian unstable main" [Undecided,New]  
[04:32] <sinzui> What is the auto review script?
[04:33] <kiko> proppy, click on the down arrow in the status table.
[04:33] <kiko> barry, I wanted just a simple checklist
[04:33] <proppy> kiko: oh thanks
[04:33] <proppy> kiko: thanks thanks thanks
[04:33] <barry> kiko: it's a great idea
[04:33] <flacoste> we should have a CodeReviewChecklist like we have a DesignChecklist
[04:34] <kiko> i.e. "if the code fetches a single object, does it use selectOne()"?
[04:34] <kiko> does the test use BeautifulSoup? could it be converted to use one of the more efficient functions?
[04:34] <barry> kiko, flacoste: could one of you start such a checklist?
[04:34] <kiko> flacoste, if you just read through a few reviewer comments you'll notice that most of the time the comments are the same
[04:35] <kiko> yeah, we should
[04:35] <sinzui> The initials for BeautifulSoup is BS
[04:35] <kiko> flacoste, I'll /msg you some suggestions
[04:35] <flacoste> i can do a first-draft and others can add what I forgot
[04:35] <flacoste> kiko: cool
[04:35] <barry> flacoste: you rock.  thanks.
[04:36] <barry> anything else on mentoring?
[04:36] <barry> 5
[04:36] <barry> 4
[04:36] <barry> 3
[04:36] <barry> 2
[04:36] <barry> 1
[04:37] <barry> that's it for the agenda.  since we have 10 more minutes scheduled, does anybody have a topic not on the agenda?
[04:37] <barry> in honor of talk like a pirate day, y'all should come up here for dinner: http://www.piratztavern.com/home.html
[04:37] <barry> :)
[04:38] <flacoste> barry: is it really 'talk like a pirate day'?
[04:38] <Spads> it's "Punch Everyone Who Talks Like A Pirate Day"
[04:38] <Spads> also, avast means "stop", not hello
[04:38] <barry> flacoste: www.talklikeapirate.com
[04:39] <Spads> barry: wrong continent!
[04:39] <barry> Spads: phew! :)
[04:39] <barry> MEETING ENDS
[04:39] <barry> thanks everyone!
[04:39] <Hobbsee> barry: planes are still in operation, though
[04:40] <Hobbsee> barry: so you may only be safe for some hours.
[04:40] <Spads> Hobbsee: he'd never get here in time
[04:40] <barry> Spads: more true than you know :)
[04:40] <barry> Hobbsee: it's Spads that has to come here though :)
[04:40] <Spads> barry: No.  You will come here.
[04:41] <Hobbsee> barry: exactly.  which makes my comments correct.
[04:41] <Spads> This is how it is going to work.
[04:41] <Hobbsee> barry: Spads' are the ones that are backwards :P
[04:41] <Hobbsee> Spads: try prefacing with sudo?
[04:41] <Spads> All pirate-talking people will come to london for a good shellackin'
[04:41] <Spads> hahaha
[04:41] <Hobbsee> hmm.  might be fun.
[04:41] <Spads> Randall ftw
[04:41] <Spads> Hobbsee: it'll be like thunderdome
[04:41] <barry> walk the plank so to speak?
[04:42] <Hobbsee> Spads: ARRRR!!!!!!!!!!!
[04:42] <Spads> curse you
[04:42] <Spads> and your international dateline
[04:42] <Hobbsee> (no one in their right minds would come all the way to au)
[04:42] <Hobbsee> hehe
[04:42] <Hobbsee> Spads: curse you right back, for living in the past.  Stop being a coward.
[04:43] <Spads> I live on the prime meridian, give or take a bit.  That's why all must come here.
[04:43] <Spads> I'll punch all pirate-talkers at greenwich observatory
[04:43] <Hobbsee> Spads: you're still behind the rest of the world.
[05:34] <seb128> hi
[05:34] <seb128> is there a way to workaround +packages timeouting?
[05:45] <mrevell> seb128: cprov-lunch should be able to answer that when he's back from lunch
[05:46] <seb128> mrevell: good, thanks
[05:48] <Hobbsee> seb128: stop uploading so many packages :P
[05:48] <seb128> Hobbsee: do you feel the GNOME power ;)
[05:48] <Hobbsee> seb128: nope.  
[05:48] <Hobbsee> seb128: it doesnt exist.
[05:48] <Hobbsee> :)
[05:49] <ddaa> No kde-gnome flamewar here ;)
[05:50] <Hobbsee> ddaa: you'll note i didnt mention KDE nor GNOME...
[05:52] <Hobbsee> ddaa: i just mentioned uploading too many packages.
[05:53] <ddaa> Oh, sorry, I misinterpreted your previous message as statement that gnome was weak.
[05:54] <ddaa> (before someone starts misinterpeting me, I am just being playful and good-natured)
[06:07] <kiko> hey ajmitch 
[06:08] <kiko> Hobbsee, has he been active?
[06:09] <Hobbsee> kiko: -ENOCONTEXT.  who?
[06:09] <Hobbsee> ddaa: nah :)
[06:09] <Hobbsee> ddaa: oh, i said that gnome power doesnt exist, yes.  noted.
[06:09] <kiko> Hobbsee, ajmitch.
[06:10] <Hobbsee> kiko: oh right.  he was active earlier, but he'll long be asleep now.  it's 4am there.
[06:10] <kiko> Hobbsee, it's just that it's been a while since I've chatted with him. thanks!
[06:10] <Hobbsee> kiko: ahh.  no, he's still active
[06:11] <kiko> thanks
[06:20] <ubotu> New bug: #141017 in rosetta "Limit "other templates from the same source" on translation status pages" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141017
[06:25] <ubotu> New bug: #141019 in soyuz "sync-source should not compare to ppa versions" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141019
[06:33] <Hobbsee> mrevell: you around?
[06:34] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Yeah, tied up at the moment, but how can I help?
[06:34] <Hobbsee> mrevell: any chance we can add some documentation on the FAQ of ppa about dpkg --compare-versions?  it seems that people need it, more so than a lot of what's already in that FAQ :)
[06:35] <Hobbsee> mrevell: and it seems that people still arent groking components, from what we see on -motu
[06:35] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Sure. Right. Let's start with dpkg --compare-versions.
[06:35] <Hobbsee> mrevell: can i be a pain and do it sometime when it isnt 2.30am in the morning?
[06:36] <Hobbsee> (seeing as you say you're tied up, too)
[06:36] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Oh yeah, absolutely, sorry, I thought you meant now.
[06:36] <Hobbsee> mrevell: no, that was the "i'm putting up the white flag saying "we need to fix this""
[06:36] <Hobbsee> :)
[06:36] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Right, great. Let me make a note. Are you around tomorrow?
[06:37] <Hobbsee> mrevell: unsure.  i may be in the land of no internet.
[06:37] <Hobbsee> mrevell: if not, i'll be around in 2 days.
[06:37] <Hobbsee> mrevell: if you're looking for concept ideas urgently, there are other ways of contacting me
[06:37] <mrevell> Okay, cool. No, that's fine, I'll chat to Celso about it
[06:37] <mrevell> Thanks for raising it
[06:38] <Hobbsee> mrevell: no problem.
[06:39] <Hobbsee> holy cow - there's lots of stuff that hasnt built.
[07:50] <ubotu> New bug: #141029 in launchpad "Translations should have "same as original" option" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141029
[08:04] <yeager> mrevell: had a good dinner? :)
[08:04] <mrevell> yeager: rushed but not bad thanks. :)
[08:05] <yeager> i submitted an updated translation to the CUPS project. they now require that the copyright is Apple Inc. how does that affect cups translations imported into launchpad and relicensed as bsd?
[08:18] <tehk> Hello, Does anyone know if you can find out how many checkouts a launchpad project gets?
[08:19] <kiko> tehk, hmm, interesting question.
[08:19] <kiko> tehk, it's currently not actually possible
[08:19] <kiko> ddaa: fun eh? :)
[08:19] <ddaa> uh
[08:20] <tehk> kiko, ok thanks 
[08:21] <ddaa> I cannot even find an obvious way to map that in term of bzr operations...
[08:22] <ddaa> our safest bet would be to add a specific command to the smart server protocol: CurrentlyDoing(checkout|branch|pull|log|...)
[08:23] <ddaa> lifeless: how does that sound to you?
[08:24] <stgraber> can't you determine that from the http server access logs (if we consider that checkouts are done through http) ?
[08:25] <ddaa> that would not distinguish between "doing a new checkout" and "pulling new changes"
[08:25] <ddaa> or even "checking whether there are any change"
[08:26] <kiko> yeah
[08:26] <kiko> it's a fun problem
[08:41] <ubotu> New bug: #141046 in launchpad "lp-dependencies missing ssh" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141046
[08:46] <ubotu> New bug: #141047 in launchpad "Missing versioned apt dependency for lp-dependencies" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141047
[08:51] <ubuntu-laptop> kiko: can LP admins remove packages from PPA?
[08:51] <ubuntu-laptop> if needed
[08:52] <kiko> ubuntu-laptop, not yet.
[08:52] <ubuntu-laptop> kiko ok ty
[09:15] <ubotu> New bug: #141054 in launchpad ""UserPreferences in the upper right corner" still referenced" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141054
[09:22] <seb128> carlos: could you look at bug #73808? intltool-update is called during the build
[09:22] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 73808 in pessulus "No translation template available" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/73808
[09:24] <seb128> carlos: in fact looks like that's ok, don't bother
[09:40] <ubotu> New bug: #141057 in launchpad "Move Legal items from /legal to help.lp.net" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141057
[09:40] <ajmitch> hi kiko 
[09:42] <lifeless> ddaa: ?
[09:43] <ddaa> lifeless: > Hello, Does anyone know if you can find out how many checkouts a launchpad project gets?
[09:44] <lifeless> lightweight or heavy?
[09:45] <kiko> hey ajmitch 
[09:45] <lifeless> for heavy they are indistinguishable from branches
[09:45] <ddaa> lifeless: I do not think the distinction matters to the user
[09:45] <kiko> ajmitch, who would be interested in updating pylint for gutsy?
[09:45] <lifeless> in terms of what the sm sees
[09:45] <ddaa> lifeless: lightweight, heavy, branch, they are all checkouts as far as counting is concerned IMO
[09:46] <lifeless> oh
[09:46] <lifeless> uhm, you can count tarball-generation occurences; that will give you a lower bound
[09:46] <ajmitch> kiko: to 0.13.2?
[09:47] <lifeless> but really, just count the different ips accessing the .bzr daa
[09:47] <ajmitch> kiko: it'd just require a sync, but also a freeze exception
[09:47] <lifeless> *data*
[09:47] <ddaa> lifeless: thought of this, but I think we need to better capture the user's intent
[09:47] <lifeless> ddaa: you just told me you don't care about intent for counting
[09:47] <ddaa> I did not say that. I say that the way in which the checkout was obtained does not matter.
[09:48] <lifeless> your definition of checkout is so broad that 99.9% of all operations are included
[09:48] <ddaa> updating an existing branch does not count
[09:48] <ddaa> getting the log does not count
[09:49] <ddaa> running "bzr vis" does not count
[09:49] <lifeless> right
[09:49] <lifeless> counting distinct ips will give you a good estimate
[09:49] <ajmitch> kiko: anything in particular that you want from the new version?
[09:49] <ddaa> Would it be possible to have a smart server command that says "I am running this sort of bzr command".
[09:50] <lifeless> My knee jerk reaction is no
[09:50] <ddaa> So it would count the number of discrete "bzr branch" and "bzr checkout" commands that were run for this branch.
[09:50] <lifeless> I'd need to think carefully about why I have that reaction.
[09:51] <ddaa> and not be biased by dynamic ips or masquerading
[09:51] <lifeless> nat
[09:51] <ddaa> right, NAT
[09:51] <kiko> ajmitch, just that the version we currently have in gutsy is pretty old, and almost obsolete
[09:52] <ddaa> lifeless: just think about it
[09:52] <lifeless> thinking about it will get nothing done
[09:52] <ajmitch> kiko: so, "doesn't work well" is probably a good reason, I'll see if I can convince those who decide
[09:53] <lifeless> if you need to answer this question, it neds to be tracked somewere
[09:53] <kiko> ajmitch, it doesn't work well for us at least. :)
[09:55] <ajmitch> right :)
[09:59] <ddaa> lifeless: I do not really need to answer this question. It's an interesting problem and I want some bzr folks to think about how to best do it.
[10:05] <ubotu> New bug: #141062 in launchpad "Please relocate /faq and /feedback to the wiki" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141062
[10:07] <tck> is there a new launchpad version due out today ?
[10:07] <kiko> tck, we're late. see launchpad-users. we've had some trouble testing and will probably roll out early friday
[10:08] <tck> coolio
[10:35] <blueyed> Hi. According to point 1 of the PPAQuickStart it does not appear to be possible to upload an updated package of linux-restricted-modules to me PPA, or is it?
[10:35] <blueyed> s/possible/allowed/
[10:35] <blueyed> s/me/my/ - sorry
[10:42] <stdin> blueyed: no, I don't think that would be allowed if any part isn't licensed under one of the listed OSI licenses, unless you strip those parts out
[10:45] <blueyed> ok. OTOH it says "Please do not publish packages in your PPA which are not redistributable (the basic requirement for packages in Ubuntu)."
[10:45] <blueyed> I wanted to provide l-r-m with the new nvidia drivers for others to test.
[10:45] <blueyed> But I think it (should) get included anyway.
[10:48] <stdin> It's a bit of a mucky area, I should think the PPAs have tighter rules than the ubuntu repos
[10:53] <LaserJock> wow, we've got a nice pendulum swing there :-)
[10:53] <LaserJock> from "OSI licenses" to "anything redistributable"
[10:54] <stdin> well, if it's under an OSI license then it has to be redistributable I guess
[10:55] <LaserJock> yeah, but the original requirement was "open source"
[10:55] <LaserJock> and redistributable is not open source
[10:55] <ubotu> New bug: #141078 in launchpad "Please update the help.lp.net wiki to use the latest theme" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141078
[10:55] <stdin> yeah, that's true
[10:56] <LaserJock> kiko: did Revell do the PPA license requirements?
[11:01] <kiko> LaserJock, license requirements?
[11:03] <LaserJock> kiko: for PPAs
[11:03] <kiko> LaserJock, I don't know what you're talking about. oh. are you talking about the terms of use?
[11:03] <LaserJock> yes, I guess so
[11:03] <kiko> LaserJock, statik did them. they are preliminary
[11:05] <LaserJock> ah, I see it's a bit inconsistent
[11:05] <LaserJock> there's the TOS
[11:06] <LaserJock> and then PPAQuickStart
[11:06] <LaserJock> which has 2 different requirements
[11:06] <kiko> LaserJock, the TOS is authoritative.
[11:07] <LaserJock> ok, then I imgaine there's quite a few people violating the TOS ;-)
[11:09] <LaserJock> I'll let you guys figure it out
[11:09] <LaserJock> blueyed: as the TOS is right now you can't do l-r-m
[11:09] <LaserJock> as far as I can tell
[11:12] <ajmitch> it's been great to be able to put up packages for testing though
[11:13] <LaserJock> CC licenses aren't on the OSI approved list
[11:14] <ajmitch> so no artwork/doc packages?
[11:14] <LaserJock> right
[11:14] <ajmitch> ouch
[11:14] <LaserJock> so the doc team have been violationg TOS ;-)
[11:14] <ajmitch> I think that'll need clarified asap
[11:15] <blueyed> I think so, too. For now, I'll keep the l-r-m package to myself.
[11:16] <LaserJock> kiko: where's the best place for this? launchpad-users or a bug report?
[11:16] <kiko> LaserJock, the former, I think
[11:26] <ubotu> New bug: #141086 in launchpad "Changed status in package translation stats is inaccurate" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141086
[11:32] <LaserJock> alrighty, email sent to launchpad-users
[11:33] <LaserJock> it'll be nice to get that cleared up as I know Doc Team people are unintentionally violating the TOS :(
[11:45] <ubotu> New bug: #141093 in malone "Bug comment's permalink page should link to bug" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141093
[11:53] <Rinchen> LaserJock, I'm going to push to use this  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components
[11:55] <Rinchen> I have to think more though to see if it will work.
[11:59] <Rinchen> uh duh...  wrong page.
[11:59] <Rinchen> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/licensing
[12:00] <ajmitch> so would we be allowed to upload to restricted/multiverse components for PPAs?
[12:03] <kiko> ajmitch, it's a good question. we allow it for Ubuntu itself, but..
[12:04] <Rinchen> yeah, what kiko said.
[12:06] <Rinchen> I'll see what I can do.  I'm off next week (mental health holiday) so it might be two weeks before I resolve this.   
[12:06] <Rinchen> LaserJock, ^^
[12:06] <LaserJock> k
[12:06] <LaserJock> just as long as you guys don't sue us for some minor TOS breakage ;-)
[12:06] <ajmitch> I'm sure they'd only close your launchpad account :)
[12:07] <gnomefreak> ajmitch: everything we do depends on our LP account
[12:07] <ajmitch> gnomefreak: I know that
[12:07] <LaserJock> that'd be lovely
[12:07] <LaserJock> no more work!
[12:07] <ajmitch> I use LP as well :)
[12:07] <gnomefreak> i would like to move some of my bzr to PPA though 
[12:08] <ajmitch> because they're not distributing LP
[12:09] <ajmitch> but stuff in PPA is available for download
[12:09] <gnomefreak> good point
[12:10] <gnomefreak> LaserJock: it was you that started the p.u.c thread? if so there is a point for members/motu/ect.. to have p.u.c address so we can pont non-free to it :)
[12:12] <LaserJock> hmm, I'm not sure that "think of all the closed-source crack we can put up" is a good argument ;-)
[12:13] <ajmitch> I'd say it's a very good argument for not allowing it :)
[12:16] <ajmitch> if you want to distribute w32codecs, do it on your own hosting, not on launchpad or other canonical-sponsored services