[01:07] <Rinchen> at the moment I do not see the argument to keep PPA items different from Ubuntu's requirements.  
[01:08] <Rinchen> so I'll pursue it
[01:08] <LaserJock> Rinchen: well, the problem is that Ubuntu's requirements aren't very clear
[01:08] <LaserJock> we rely on the archive admins to have the final say on what goes in
[01:08] <Rinchen> For that I'd forward you to  dholbach 
[01:09] <LaserJock> I'm just saying that basing it on Ubuntu is a slippery slop
[01:09] <LaserJock> +e
[01:09] <Rinchen> I didn't write the original ppa tos so I need to understand why it was done the way it was.  I contributed to it though so some of the language is mine...just not the licensing part.
[01:10] <LaserJock> because then the question is "what does Ubuntu let in?" "why doesn't Ubuntu let in X?" etc. then it becomes an Ubuntu problem
[01:10] <Rinchen> and not a LP problem :-)   
[01:10] <Rinchen> anyway, I'll figure it out.
[01:10] <LaserJock> yeah
[01:10] <Rinchen> I can promise you it'll be consistent amongst the docs.
[01:11] <Rinchen> and in fact this was a good call from a beta test period
[01:11] <LaserJock> that'd be nice :-)
[01:12] <LaserJock> the Creative Commons license (CC-By-SA normally) is the only one I saw right off that wasn't in the OSI list
[01:12] <stdin> hmm, thinking about it, wouldn't putting "FireFox" in your PPA not be allowed either, as if you patch it then you can't call it "FireFox" anymore 
[01:12] <LaserJock> so maybe it can be OSI+
[01:12] <LaserJock> you'd probably want to do iceweasel or something
[01:13] <stdin> I guess I'm just expressing my confusion over licences in general :p
[01:13] <LaserJock> licenses suck
[01:14] <LaserJock> no doubt about it
[01:14] <Rinchen> yeah
[01:14] <Rinchen> you can blame me for all the stuff going forward   https://help.launchpad.net/Legal
[01:15] <LaserJock> Rinchen: I assume you're going to lock the Legal/TOS pages on the wiki?
[01:15] <Rinchen> you'll note there are some minor formatting differences  and word replacements in the PPA  portion.
[01:15] <Rinchen> they are locked
[01:15] <Rinchen> only myself and mrevell can edit them
[01:16] <Rinchen> I'm moving the document items out of LP ...so, legal, faq, feedback, ppa tos, etc.
[01:16] <LaserJock> k, cool
[01:16] <Rinchen> I find it offensive that I have to do a code change in order to update FAQs.
[01:17] <Rinchen> anyway, it's work in progress.
[01:17] <Rinchen> Legal will redirected this release, the others I hope for next release.
[03:42] <dresman> hello all
[04:08] <kiko-afk> ajmitch, bug 141103 fwiw. :)
[04:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141103 in kubuntu-meta "KDE doesn't display text any more" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141103
[04:08] <kiko-afk> err
[04:08] <kiko-afk> ajmitch, bug 141013.
[04:08] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141013 in pylint "Gutsy should use a new pylint package" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141013
[04:09] <kiko-afk> yay
[04:12] <ajmitch> yeah, I saw it
[04:12] <ajmitch> it requires the upgrade of at least 2 other packages
[04:12] <ajmitch> python-logilab-{common,astng}
[04:12] <ajmitch> maybe python-constraint
[09:52] <mrevell> hi all
[09:53] <Hobbsee> good morning mrevell 
[09:53] <mrevell> hey Hobbsee
[10:01] <carlos> morning
[10:18] <TomaszD> carlos, hi. You said that in gutsy it takes a day for a .po import, however I'm afraid it's again going to be six days or more, can't approved -> imported be sped up manually somehow? I'm talking about this https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/gnome-app-install/+imports?field.filter_status=APPROVED&field.filter_extension=all
[10:19] <carlos> I cannot change the import order, I can change from Needs review to Approved though
[10:19] <carlos> so you will need to wait
[10:19] <carlos> sorry about that
[10:20] <TomaszD> alright, thanks, I just need to know that
[10:20] <TomaszD> :] 
[10:46] <ubotu> New bug: #141177 in launchpad "PPA should send a mail upon successful build" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141177
[11:23] <mrevell> hey Hobbsee, still around?
[11:39] <Hobbsee> mrevell: yeah
[12:11] <ubotu> New bug: #141199 in malone "[RFE]  Malone should email, then close bugs for inactivity" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141199
[12:17] <Fujitsu>  /win 15
[12:17] <Fujitsu> Oops.
[12:21] <ubotu> New bug: #141202 in malone "[RFE]  Email inactive bugs a month after a release" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141202
[12:40] <Fujitsu> z,cb 15
[12:40] <Fujitsu> Bah.
[01:34] <maruscia> hi
[01:34] <maruscia> I've been experiencing many Timeout Errors when translating strings from gutsy's library package libadept from english to italian
[01:34] <maruscia> in Rosetta on edge.launchpad.net
[01:45] <ubotu> New bug: #141215 in malone "Viewing a bug in the wrong context should allow user to jump to one of the right contexts" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141215
[01:45] <carlos> maruscia: do you have OOPs numbers?
[01:46] <maruscia> sure
[01:46] <maruscia> last one: OOPS-628EA27
[01:58] <ignas> whom should i write an email to if i want my translation template file to get reviewed faster?
[01:59] <carlos> maruscia: ok, let me check...
[02:00] <maruscia> take your time :)
[02:00] <carlos> ignas: danilos is doing those reviews today
[02:00] <ignas> carlos: i see, thank you
[02:00] <danilos> carlos: I am not, I was doing them yesterday :)
[02:01] <ignas> carlos: maybe you could point me to some document that explains why all the new templates need to be reviewed?
[02:01] <ignas> danilos: you missed mine then ;)
[02:01] <carlos> oh, right!
[02:01] <carlos> today is Thursday...
[02:01] <danilos> ignas: basically, they need to be reviewed because we have not project registration approvals, and people make many mistakes
[02:02] <carlos> ignas: so tomorrow is my turn to do it
[02:02] <danilos> s/not/no/
[02:02] <ignas> danilos: what kinds of mistakes?
[02:02] <ignas> oh, you mean anyone can upload a pot even if he is not the owner of the project?
[02:03] <danilos> ignas: for instance, we have gotten like 20-30 different wordpress registrations where people only wanted to use launchpad to translate wordpress to a single language, with existing wordpress project there already
[02:03] <ignas> hmm, but if i am uploading a pot file to a project that is in there for quite a lot of time ...
[02:03] <danilos> ignas: no, as an owner of a project, you can also upload multiple templates with the wrong "path" (eg. once you upload 'template.pot', the other time 'messages.pot': how can we tell if these are the same?)
[02:04] <danilos> ignas: hum, then it should be auto-approved after a few hours if it was already being translated
[02:04] <ignas> and there is no way to delete the wrong pot?
[02:04] <ignas> danilos: we are going from monolith codebase to one composed of plugins, so all the plugins are getting their own pot files
[02:05] <danilos> ignas: you can hide a potemplate, or delete a pot in the import queue, yes
[02:05] <ignas> so pot files don't seem so central to our project as they come and go ...
[02:05] <ignas> and even if i will upload the wrong pot - if i can delete it later, why does it need approval?
[02:05] <danilos> ignas: well, that's something we've discussed earlier, but the problem is that we don't have project approval, so we've delayed the approval to template imports
[02:06] <ignas> i see
[02:06] <danilos> ignas: we have considered marking projects as 'approved' once we approve a single template, but we have not yet done that
[02:06] <ignas> oh
[02:06] <ignas> that would be nice
[02:08] <carlos_> sorry, my wireless driver died
[02:13] <ignas> carlos: one more question - what is the ration of wrong vs right templates?
[02:14] <ignas> i mean wouldn't it be easier to delete the wrong templates every 2-3 days instead of approving all the right ones every 2-3 days
[02:14] <carlos> ignas: I didn't see the template you are interested on
[02:14] <ignas> lyceum.pot Schooltool Series: development
[02:14] <carlos> ignas: that's what we plan to do, although for that, we need to add a way to delete things completely from the system
[02:15] <ignas> oh
[02:15] <carlos> ok
[02:28] <carlos> ignas: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/schooltool/development/+pots/lyceum
[02:28] <carlos> ignas: it will be imported soon
[02:28] <ignas> thanks
[03:58] <SteveA> matsubara: hi
[03:58] <matsubara> SteveA: hello
[03:59] <Hobbsee> good morning SteveA!
[03:59] <Hobbsee> morning matsubara 
[03:59] <SteveA> matsubara: I think the TaggingLaunchpadBugs page is out of date.
[03:59] <SteveA> matsubara: iirc, structural-navigation was approved
[03:59] <SteveA> matsubara: would you take a look please?
[03:59] <SteveA> Hobbsee: good morning!
[04:00] <matsubara> Hobbsee: hello!
[04:00] <SteveA> I've just noticed that your nick sounds very australian
[04:00] <kiko> morning!
[04:00] <Hobbsee> SteveA: who's sorry?
[04:00] <Hobbsee> hiya kiko!
[04:00] <salgado> me
[04:00] <SteveA> Hobbsee: "hobbsee", like "poolie", another australian launchpad person
[04:00] <cprov> me
[04:00] <SteveA> Welcome to this week's Launchpad development meeting.  For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be co-ordinating about Launchpad development.
[04:00] <matsubara> SteveA: sure, I usually leave the proposer to update it. I'll read the last meeting notes and update accordingly
[04:00] <SteveA> who is here today?
[04:00] <mrevell> me
[04:00] <jsk> me
[04:00] <SteveA> thanks matsubara 
[04:00] <schwuk> me
[04:00] <bac> me
[04:00] <sinzui> me
[04:00] <Hobbsee> SteveA: interesting.  it's completely separate
[04:00] <intellectronica> me
[04:00] <statik_> me
[04:00] <Hobbsee> me!
[04:00] <barry> me
[04:00] <BjornT> me
[04:00] <gmb> me
[04:00] <kiko> me
[04:01] <matsubara> me
[04:01] <ddaa> me
[04:01] <jtv> me
[04:01] <allenap> me
[04:01] <EdwinGrubbs-_> me
[04:01] <salgado> me
[04:01] <ddaa> mwhudson is on leave
[04:01] <schwuk> adeuring will be here shortly
[04:01] <SteveA> thanks ddaa 
[04:01] <stub> me
[04:01] <SteveA>  * <stub> I'm not available
[04:01] <SteveA>  * <mpt> I won't be here.
[04:01] <carlos> me
[04:01] <SteveA> stub: I guess you're here then :-)
[04:01] <adeuring> me
[04:01] <stub> SteveA: doh!
[04:01] <danilos> me
[04:01] <stub> SteveA: That was last week
[04:02] <Hobbsee> stub: dont admit that, and hide from this week's meeting.
[04:02] <flacoste> me
[04:03] <SteveA> on with the show!
[04:03] <SteveA> == Agenda ==
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Roll call
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Agenda
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Next meeting
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:03] <Rinchen> me
[04:03] <SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[04:03] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:03] <mthaddon> me
[04:03] <SteveA> ----
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Poll: who has read the "critical situations" policy - SteveA
[04:03] <SteveA>  (other items)
[04:03] <SteveA> ----
[04:03] <SteveA>  * Blockers
[04:03] <SteveA> 
[04:03] <SteveA> note the poll that will occur in about 25 minutes :-)  now's your chance to sneak off and read the policy if you haven't done so
[04:04] <SteveA> next meeting: same time next week.  I won't be here, though.
[04:04] <SteveA> various people will be unable to attend next week's meeting also
[04:04] <ddaa> thumper will be on leave next week, but he does not attend the meeting anyway
[04:05] <SteveA> thanks
[04:05] <stub> Given it is 'week 0', shall we skip?
[04:06] <SteveA> kiko: what do you think?
[04:06] <kiko> I will be here; I don't see why we should skip. what is happening next week?
[04:06] <stub> A meeting aparently
[04:07] <SteveA> I'll be at a canonical quarterly review meeting
[04:07] <SteveA> ok, same time next week
[04:07] <SteveA> maybe shorter, if there's less to arrange
[04:07] <SteveA> kiko: would you chair the meeting next week?
[04:07] <kiko> yeah, mpt and I should be able to manage.
[04:08] <SteveA> great
[04:08] <SteveA>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:08] <SteveA>  * matsubara to get feedback from team leads about any security concerns in giving them access to the shared staging mailbox (unfinished from last week)
[04:08] <bigjools> I'm here, sorry for lateness
[04:08] <SteveA> we did that
[04:08] <SteveA> last week I think
[04:08] <SteveA> so, I think the MeetingAgenda page is a bit out of date
[04:08] <matsubara> SteveA: that's old. 
[04:08] <SteveA> probably because mpt is on vacation
[04:08] <SteveA> he normally deals with it
[04:09] <jamesh> I'm late too :(
[04:09] <SteveA>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:10] <matsubara> SteveA: I'm investigating a couple of OOPS yet. Nothing alarming to report today.
[04:11] <Rinchen> That's good news. :-)
[04:11] <SteveA> matsubara: are we getting oopses from edge?
[04:11] <SteveA> that was an issue from last week
[04:11] <matsubara> SteveA: yes.
[04:12] <matsubara> they're synced and oops reports are flowing daily to the list
[04:12] <SteveA> great
[04:12] <SteveA>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[04:12] <Rinchen> Hi, 1 for today
[04:12] <Rinchen> Bug #135730 was merged today and will be delivered in 1.1.9.
[04:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135730 in launchpad "Special background for private bug reports etc should be inside tabs" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135730 - Assigned to Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)
[04:12] <Rinchen> Thanks to matsubara for seeing that one through
[04:12] <SteveA> that was critical?
[04:12] <kiko> how is that a critical bug?
[04:13] <SteveA> I guess it must have been made such
[04:13] <SteveA> before our new policy
[04:13] <Hobbsee> clearly marked by whoever didnt read the new policy
[04:13] <Rinchen> it was influenced from a senior member in our company is what I was told
[04:13] <SteveA> still doesn't make it critical
[04:13] <SteveA> just high
[04:13] <Rinchen> indeed. It was also set prior to the new policy
[04:13] <SteveA> right
[04:13] <SteveA> that I can understand
[04:14] <SteveA> Rinchen: any other critical bugs that should be reviewed to see if they're really critical?
[04:14] <SteveA> according to the new policy?
[04:14] <Rinchen> There are no open Critical Bugs at this time. 
[04:14] <SteveA> great!
[04:14] <SteveA> thanks Rinchen and matsubara 
[04:14] <Rinchen> Thanks. 
[04:14] <SteveA>  * Bug tags
[04:14] <matsubara> thanks
[04:15] <SteveA> we have two bug tags that are in the proposed list
[04:15] <SteveA> 'edge', still with no examples
[04:15] <SteveA> 'api'
[04:15] <Rinchen> we can drop edge and API was approved
[04:15] <mrevell> SteveA: Sorry, I thought edge was rejected.
[04:15] <SteveA> which I believe was approved last week
[04:15] <matsubara> sorry, I'm updating the wiki page
[04:15] <SteveA> I think it's unclear who is responsible for updating bug tag proposals
[04:15] <SteveA> is it the proposer, or is it me, or is it matsubara?
[04:16] <kiko> the proposer.
[04:16] <Rinchen> the proposer.
[04:16] <kiko> ah, updating post-meeting?
[04:16] <mrevell> In which case, sorry for not removing it.
[04:16] <SteveA> ok, let's get that written into the heading "proposing new tags" on that very page
[04:16] <SteveA> matsubara: would you do that please?
[04:16] <Rinchen> matsubara, could you please add that since you are there?
[04:16] <SteveA> seeing as you are editing
[04:16] <matsubara> SteveA: sure
[04:16] <SteveA> thanks matsubara !
[04:16] <SteveA>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:16] <mthaddon> App Server Reconfig complete - all production systems now going through the same web front-end, using the same physical application servers and using Apache's load balancer (3 for edge and beta, 6 for lpnet)
[04:16] <mthaddon> Working on setting up new PQM box and codehosting/codebrowse/importd staging box(es)
[04:16] <mthaddon> That's it from me
[04:17] <SteveA> mthaddon: some questions came up in my weekly bzr-launchpad conf call
[04:17] <SteveA> about wanting to monitor load and processor use and IO use on servers
[04:17] <mthaddon> ok
[04:17] <SteveA> do we collect that information already?  if so, is it graphed somewhere that we can see?
[04:18] <mthaddon> I believe IS does all of that, but not sure if it's publicly available
[04:18] <SteveA> don't want it publicly available
[04:18] <SteveA> that could help miscreants who want to work out how to DOS servers
[04:18] <SteveA> I do want it available to launchpad developers
[04:18] <mthaddon> sorry, I mean outside of IS, not publicly
[04:19] <SteveA> mthaddon: would you find out please, and mail the answer to the launchpad devel list?
[04:19] <mthaddon> SteveA, will do
[04:19] <SteveA> thanks
[04:19] <SteveA>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:19] <stub> There was aparently a DB outage yesterday around 2200UTC. I suspect the usual crash. I'll be testing my chief suspects tomorrow or next week if the Rosetta guys don't mind me possibly crashing the dbs on carbon.
[04:19] <stub> I need to get a move on with read only launchpad and database replication. I expect to start coding the read only launchpad stuff next week whilst testing replication stuff on asuka and carbon. Probably pgpool-II, even though 'most people don't need synchronous replication' is the common wisdom.
[04:19] <stub> Just did a db patch review for Tom B. I assume it has been cleared for landing given it is aparently release critical?
[04:19] <stub> I've got to review the PG setup on the new PQM box for Tom H still.
[04:19] <stub> Nothing else.
[04:20] <carlos> stub: will we get carbon back?
[04:20] <SteveA> stub: sounds great.  I'd like to have a conf call with you and jamesh sometime to talk through the replication strategy.
[04:20] <kiko> stub, yeah, it was cleared for landing.
[04:20] <jamesh> okay
[04:20] <stub> carlos: Yes. If it crashes, it recovers itself immediately. Just kills all the current connections.
[04:20] <carlos> or even better, when will 1.1.9 be released? once that's done, we don't depend so much on carbon
[04:21] <carlos> oh, so we will still have the db available
[04:21] <carlos> but maybe a bit unstable?
[04:21] <carlos> that's fine
[04:21] <SteveA> mthaddon: would you be able to be on this call too?
[04:21] <danilos> stub: we want to have carbon for testing near the end of the 1.1.10 cycle
[04:22] <mthaddon> SteveA, which call is that?
[04:22] <danilos> stub: other than that, we can live without it being stable
[04:22] <stub> SteveA: I'm in a crappy timezone for both you *and* tom until next week.
[04:22] <mthaddon> SteveA, sorry, saw the comment - yes
[04:22] <SteveA> stub, jamesh, mthaddon: I propose a meeting early october about this
[04:22] <SteveA> like, 1st week of october
[04:22] <mthaddon> sounds good to me
[04:22] <stub> SteveA: But we have already discussed this before, haven't we?
[04:23] <SteveA> blame my faulty recollection of the details...
[04:23] <statik_> stevea, mind if i join too?
[04:23] <SteveA> unless there's some minispecs or other docs I can look up that describes the plan
[04:23] <SteveA> statik_: sure
[04:23] <SteveA> statik_: would you organise the meeting?  you're good with timezones :-)  I propose monday oct 1
[04:24] <stub> SteveA: We determined what 'read only launchpad' meant (and possibly specced), and deferred the replication decisions until I can test different things.
[04:24] <SteveA> cool.  so let's catch up on oct 1
[04:24] <SteveA> you'll have had a chance to do some experimentation by then too
[04:24] <statik_> will do
[04:25] <SteveA> stub: also, I was talking with elmo about new DB hardware
[04:25] <SteveA> and newer hardware in general
[04:25] <SteveA> or just how best to use existing hardware
[04:26] <SteveA> thanks stub !
[04:26] <SteveA>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[04:26] <Rinchen> Does anyone (besides matusbara and mpt) have any RT requests that need attention? If you are blocked on any, please speak now. mthaddon and elmo, matsubara is blocked on two RTs which are assigned to you. I'll post them in at the end of the meeting.
[04:26] <mthaddon> Rinchen, thx
[04:26] <Rinchen> going once
[04:26] <SteveA> Rinchen: tim needs to arrange access to a box with a bzr 0.9 on it
[04:27] <SteveA> he submitted an rt request about that, but there's a problem
[04:27] <SteveA> we don't have a backport of bzr 0.9 to dapper just yet
[04:27] <SteveA> (it's trickier than it sounds)
[04:27] <stub> Does it have to be the 0.9 package, or can he just install it in his PYTHONPATH
[04:27] <stub> ?
[04:27] <SteveA> although... perhaps tim could install it in his home dir
[04:27] <SteveA> stub: right
[04:27] <SteveA> and we want to stop staging temporarily on asuka
[04:27] <Rinchen> SteveA, indeed. I saw the RT submitted but haven't looked up the number.  Tim also requested it by tomorrow which doesn't give IS any lead time.
[04:28] <SteveA> and have tim test various operations, while looking at the IO load
[04:28] <stub> Stop staging, or stop staging db updates?
[04:28] <SteveA> both
[04:28] <SteveA> Rinchen: given the insight from stub, let's get tim asuka access
[04:28] <SteveA> and belay getting bzr packaged
[04:29] <SteveA> ('miscreant'... 'belay'... I guess I'm too late for talk like a pirate day)
[04:29] <Rinchen> arrg, I gotcha back Captain!
[04:29] <Rinchen> Back to you SteveA 
[04:30] <SteveA>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:30] <mrevell> MOTU members have contacted both matsubara and me to suggest that the fix to bug 134220 doesn't meet their needs.
[04:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134220 in malone "Bug page has no information about current package version" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134220 - Assigned to Matthew Paul Thomas (mpt)
[04:30] <mrevell> The bug concerns the removal of the package information panel from the
[04:30] <mrevell> left-hand of the page.
[04:30] <mrevell> The bug fix presents the package version
[04:30] <mrevell> information for each context when that context is expanded.
[04:30] <kiko> mrevell, I'll be happy to reconsider in a month's time.
[04:30] <mrevell> Hobbsee reports that the MOTU would be particularly keen to see the
[04:30] <mrevell> return of the panel as it was previously, as it was an easy way to see version, matainer and uploader information.
[04:30] <kiko> for now, let's leave it at this.
[04:30] <mrevell> kiko: Thanks.
[04:30] <SteveA> thanks mrevell 
[04:31] <SteveA>  * Poll: who has read the "critical situations" policy - SteveA
[04:31] <Rinchen> me
[04:31] <kiko> I have
[04:31] <intellectronica> me
[04:31] <SteveA> please say either "I read it.  It was very interesting.  Thrilling even."  or "I didn't read it yet"
[04:31] <gmb> me
[04:31] <matsubara> me
[04:31] <bac> me
[04:31] <BjornT> me
[04:31] <jtv> I read it yadda yadda yadda
[04:31] <jsk> I read it.
[04:31] <Rinchen> "I read it.  It was very interesting.  Thrilling ev
[04:31] <matsubara> I read it
[04:31] <statik_> thrilling even
[04:31] <SteveA> or "me" "not me" if you prefer"
[04:31] <stub> me
[04:31] <gmb> I read it.
[04:31] <bigjools> I read it
[04:31] <ddaa> me
[04:31] <jamesh> me
[04:31] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[04:31] <mrevell> I read it.
[04:31] <salgado> I read it
[04:31] <flacoste> I read it.  It was very interesting.  Thrilling even.
[04:31] <barry> i read it
[04:31] <cprov> I read it
[04:31] <carlos> I read it
[04:31] <schwuk> I read it
[04:31] <adeuring> me
[04:31] <danilos> I read it
[04:32] <sinzui> me
[04:32] <mthaddon> I read it
[04:32] <allenap> I read it
[04:32] <SteveA> great, looks like everyone read it
[04:32] <SteveA> thanks
[04:32] <SteveA>  * Blockers
[04:33] <SteveA> SC: not blocked
[04:33] <Rinchen> Release Team: BLOCKED: 1) Stevea to please reply to bug 88265, 2) mthaddon: RT #28907 (staging outgoing bugmail setup), 3) elmo: RT #28415 (staging incoming email setup)
[04:33] <ubotu> Bug 88265 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/88265 is private
[04:33] <BjornT> Bugs: not blocked
[04:33] <flacoste> Foundations: not blocked
[04:33] <jtv> Translations: not blocked
[04:33] <cprov> Soyuz Team: not blocked
[04:33] <SteveA> flacoste: welcome back!  you're on the ball today.
[04:33] <statik_> collaborative commerce: not blocked
[04:34] <siretart> cprov: are PPA builds in status "Dependency Wait" automatically requeued?
[04:34] <ddaa> Code: not blocked
[04:34] <schwuk> HWDB: not blocked, apart from adeuring's reduced typing ability
[04:34] <Rinchen> ?
[04:34] <cprov> siretart: no, you have to manually 'retry' them.
[04:35] <adeuring> right elbow broken or perhaps not broken...
[04:35] <schwuk> Rinchen: it was kiko's fault
[04:35] <gmb> Schrodinger's elbow
[04:35] <Rinchen> eews, sorry to hear that.
[04:36] <cprov> siretart: follow https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bug/138464 for status updates 
[04:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 138464 in soyuz "MANUALDEPWAIT builds in PPAs are not automatically retried" [Medium,Confirmed]   - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[04:36] <adeuring> well, i hope you don't mean something like the cat....
[04:36] <mrevell> gmb: Presumably looking at it with sort out the ambiguity
[04:36] <mrevell> s/with/would
[04:36] <gmb> mrevell: Exactly.
[04:36] <SteveA> thanks for the blocked items, team
[04:37] <SteveA> we have a few more minutes.  Anything from Rinchen and kiko about our current place in the dev cycle?
[04:37] <carlos> would be interested to know the final date for 1.1.9 release...
[04:37] <carlos> if possible
[04:37] <Rinchen> kiko and I are working on a Friday release.
[04:37] <carlos> tomorrow?
[04:38] <Rinchen> There are some items to sort out though before we can attempt it
[04:38] <Rinchen> Tomorrow.
[04:38] <danilos> Rinchen: that sounds scary
[04:38] <carlos> I thought we don't want Friday releases due to the weekend right after it...
[04:38] <kiko> carlos, danilos: next week is impractical.
[04:38] <carlos> ok
[04:38] <mthaddon> Rinchen, what do you mean by Friday (typically we do it late night my time early stub's time, but on a Friday, that would be Saturday stub's time)
[04:38] <barry> Rinchen: don't release after friday at 3pm of course :)
[04:39] <danilos> barry: we are in too many timezones to be able to avoid that, I think :)
[04:39] <carlos> barry: 3pm which time zone? :-)
[04:39] <Hobbsee> carlos: weekends are a thing of the past.  they no longer exist.
[04:39] <carlos> danilos: you won!
[04:39] <barry> Schrodinger's timezone
[04:39] <Hobbsee> carlos: cancelled due to unpopularity.
[04:39] <carlos> Hobbsee: indeed...
[04:39] <Rinchen> We'll continue plotting and scheming today and will let you all know what we can work out.
[04:40] <carlos> Rinchen: ok, thanks
[04:40] <Rinchen> Please remember to submit your pre-release QA reports.
[04:40] <jtv> When are they due?
[04:41] <Rinchen> As soon as possible. :-)  
[04:41] <flacoste> jtv: two days ago?
[04:41] <flacoste> jtv: that was supposed to be a ;-)
[04:41] <jtv> flacoste: like the branches we're testing?
[04:41] <flacoste> jtv: exactly!
[04:41] <Rinchen> Interim reports are ok. It's a little extra work for matsubara but we'll be able to get a head start on reviewing the notes.
[04:42] <Rinchen> matsubara, can you cut a draft for kiko and I today please with what you have currently?
[04:42] <matsubara> Rinchen: yes
[04:42] <Rinchen> Great, thanks.  SteveA back to you
[04:42] <SteveA> ok, thanks
[04:42] <SteveA> that
[04:42] <SteveA> s all folks
[04:42] <SteveA> MEETING ENDS
[04:43] <mrevell> thanks all
[04:45] <_nand_> hi!
[04:45] <_nand_> Since they are quite a few developpers here
[04:45] <_nand_> I wanted to get some feedback on something :)
[04:45] <_nand_> I have been thinking on a idea around Dell's ideastorm model idea
[04:46] <_nand_> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/launchpad/+spec/better-community-wishes-assessment
[04:46] <_nand_> I strongly feel that it could be very usefull
[04:46] <_nand_> What do you think?
[04:46] <intellectronica> _nand_: i think i read your email about this to the list and wanted to respond but didn't find the time yet
[04:46] <Rinchen> _nand_, have you seen https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IdeaPool ?
[04:47] <intellectronica> basically, i think it's a good idea, and there are some plans already to do something like this for bugs (at least)
[04:47] <intellectronica> it will take a while, though, and until then i think the best recommendation is adding a comment like "+1" or "me too" or something like this when you find something already reported that affects you too
[04:48] <_nand_> Rinchen: yes, but the static nature of it make it not too good
[04:48] <_nand_> and it is not linked to the launchpad framework
[04:49] <_nand_> how does it look like concerning the implementation?
[04:53] <Rinchen> _nand_, if that was for me, I don't have any opinion at the moment. Sorry. 
[04:54] <_nand_> ok!
[04:54] <jsk> _nand_: thanks for getting in touch. do you have any thoughts about how this might link in with blueprint? For instance, there is a tentative blueprint called "vote-for-spec", which would allow users to vote for the blueprints they want to see implemented. (see https://blueprints.launchpad.net/blueprint/+spec/vote-for-spec)
[04:57] <_nand_> hmm... I have started with only wishes in mind, but in fact yes, this could be generalized to bugs, wishes and blueprints
[04:58] <_nand_> while blueprint are more for power users... 
[04:58] <_nand_> i mean, not normal users
[04:59] <_nand_> who just want to vote for simple ideas and wishes
[05:00] <_nand_> jsk: i can't read the spec :/
[05:04] <jsk> _nand_: Your feedback about Blueprint is useful. Do you think blueprints are too heavyweight for ordinary users?
[05:07] <_nand_> jsk: exactly
[05:08] <jsk> _nand_: (btw, That spec link I posted is only an outline - I don't think there's a wiki page for it yet.)
[05:08] <_nand_> jsk: as an ordinary user, it is just too much and cumbersome to follow the format of a blueprint
[05:09] <proppy> Hi
[05:09] <_nand_> jsk: lol sorry, i was blindly clicking on the link :)
[05:09] <jsk> _nand_: :)
[05:09] <proppy> how do I delete things from a ppa ?
[05:09] <_nand_> jsk: and it is too much too read
[05:09] <_nand_> jsk: ideas should be short and quick to read, understand and agree
[05:09] <_nand_> agree/disagree
[05:10] <stdin> proppy: you can't (yet)
[05:11] <_nand_> so that a large part of the user base, who don't have much time, could interact with launchpad
[05:11] <_nand_> I strongly believe it would help to evaluate efficiently and quantitavely the wishes of a large portion of the user base
[05:12] <_nand_> just look at the success of Ideastorm. A success at gathering so much input, and a success at responding quickly at user input
[05:17] <jsk> _nand_: Personally I feel the same way, that raising and voting for ideas should be made as simple as possible. Dell's Ideastorm was simple enough even for first-time visitors to participate.
[05:18] <_nand_> jsk: exactly
[05:18] <_nand_> jsk: thinking of it, we can consider wishes as pre-blueprints or lightweight blueprints... once it gained a lot a support, the idea could be extented into a full blueprint
[05:18] <jsk> _nand_: a different (but related) example was the UK government's petition website: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/
[05:18] <_nand_> a blueprint being mainly for developper audience;;;
[05:19] <jsk> _nand_: I don't know if you saw that, but it became very popular very quickly.
[05:19] <_nand_> jsk: i was not aware of it
[05:19] <_nand_> but then that's another good example :)
[05:20] <_nand_> Simple and easy input
[05:20] <_nand_> Simple way to interact and promote/demote others's idea
[05:20] <_nand_> and that's it!
[05:20] <_nand_> (and a bit of publicity too :) )
[05:25] <_nand_> jsk: i would really like to implementing/help implementing this, but I don't know if this is planned somehow (according to intellectronica) and it doesn't *seem* launchpad dev is so open (but i might be wrong)
[05:26] <intellectronica> _nand_: your help it getting solid ideas on how to do this is already great. don't worry, it wont be long before you have something like this (at least for bugs)
[05:27] <_nand_> intellectronica: thanks, i will look forward to it :)
[05:32] <jsk> _nand_: Just looking through your wiki page, and it mentions having a separate .org domain.  Do you think it would be better or worse to integrate such a website into the current launchpad framework (perhaps as a subsite?).
[05:36] <_nand_> jsk: well, i was thinking the new set of pages as a subsite, like another viewer to the same data (wishes), and the new set of pages should be more focused on easiness for simples users
[05:37] <jsk> _nand_: Perhaps another way of looking at this: Considering that Launchpad is used by thousands of products (growing all the time), do you have any thoughts on how ideas could be linked with products?
[05:37] <_nand_> and a dot org domain should redirect to this subsite, even it is part of launchpad
[05:38] <_nand_> jsk: I was thinking, to keep idea submission simple, to require only title and description
[05:38] <jsk> _nand_: For instance, it might be easier to let users raise an idea (without requiring them to specify a project), but then let others link the idea with individual projects later.
[05:38] <_nand_> no package name, no project
[05:38] <_nand_> jsk: we are on the same wavelength :)
[05:38] <jsk> _nand_: Ok. Personally I agree with you here.
[05:39] <_nand_> having a high degree of freedom so that power users can help by linking, adding comment, marking wishes as duplicate or impossible or already implemented
[05:40] <_nand_> reducing the much hated triage :)
[05:40] <jsk> :).
[05:40] <_nand_> then i was thinking about "official comment", but this need to be discussed
[05:41] <_nand_> taking example on ideastorm experience
[05:42] <_nand_> upstream was giving feedback through the regular flow of comments
[05:42] <_nand_> and it was easily lost in the flow
[05:42] <_nand_> resulting in confused users
[05:42] <_nand_> same things here for big bugs reports
[05:43] <_nand_> so i was thinking of an area on top summarizing the status, and comments of upstream
[05:43] <_nand_> but how to restrict access, that's the pb.
[05:45] <jsk> _nand_: What do you think about ideas pages for individual projects? I can imagine a root "ideas.launchpad.net" or "wishes.launchpad.net", that shows all the ideas (regardless of project). Furthermore, filtered views at ideas.launchpad.net/<project>.
[05:45] <ubotu> New bug: #141275 in launchpad "Staging Website Error 503/403" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141275
[05:46] <_nand_> jsk: well, it would require a simple user to know what package affects its idea... And we can't expect that at all :p
[05:47] <_nand_> But upstream projects could have a link to this, if it is successfull and they don't have a efficient wishes submission system
[05:48] <jsk> _nand_: I see what you mean. I was imagining that "ideas.launchpad.net" could show all the ideas. Power users could navigate to per-project ideas sites.
[05:49] <_nand_> Yes! But i also believe (in a marketing point of view) that a dot org domain redirecting to ideas.launchpad.net with strong words is *much* better
[05:49] <_nand_> let's compare
[05:49] <_nand_> in a simple user point of view
[05:49] <_nand_> ideas.launchpad.net : what the h
[05:49] <_nand_> ** is launchpad about?
[05:50] <_nand_> and that's not a www website, it does not sound cool
[05:50] <jsk> actually, I get asked that all the time. :)
[05:50] <_nand_> but something like www.ubuntu-ideas.com does talk much more!
[05:51] <_nand_> or ubuntustorming
[05:51] <_nand_> well, a name with strong meaning :)
[05:52] <_nand_> ideastorm was a very good one, with the mix of idea and brainstorming :)
[05:53] <jsk> in a way, it's a shame the domain name system was designed back-to-front. :)
[05:53] <_nand_> :)
[05:57] <jsk> _nand_: so, if I understand you correctly, your ".org" site would be Ubuntu specific (such as "www.ubuntu-ideas.org"), and could alias onto a launchpad site (such as "ideas.launchpad.net/ubuntu"), but the user would not need to be aware of it.
[05:57] <_nand_> exactly
[05:57] <jsk> _nand_: then this leaves open the possibility of ideas for other projects.
[05:58] <_nand_> jsk: what do you mean?
[05:58] <jsk> and all ideas appearing at "ideas.launchpad.net". That could be quite open-ended!
[05:59] <jsk> Well, let's say that project X is hosted at launchpad.net/projectx.
[05:59] <jsk> Hypothetically, let's imagine that project X is a free software project not related to Ubuntu.
[06:01] <jsk> Then a user (who isn't a developer) comes along and has an idea about project X. Is there a simple way for them to raise the idea?
[06:02] <jsk> I agree, it might be too much to expect for someone to know to visit launchpad.net/projectx.
[06:02] <jsk> So providing a simple point-of-entry for all ideas (in any project in LP) might be worthwhile.
[06:03] <_nand_> If a user want to post something on ubuntu, it will go to ubuntu-ideas.org. If it want to post something on project X, it will be go to google
[06:03] <_nand_> find the project homepage
[06:03] <_nand_> and here
[06:03] <_nand_> the project homepage should have a link to launchpad.net/projectX
[06:04] <_nand_> Each project link to his launchpad page, and big project could link via a dot org domain
[06:05] <_nand_> yes
[06:05] <_nand_> This will benefit Ubuntu a lot, but also a lot of opensource project which does not have a way to assess they user base demand
[06:06] <_nand_> and i strongly believe this should be a very high priority
[06:06] <_nand_> I was thinking also of a link in the "Help" menu of application
[06:07] <_nand_> When a simple user want to post a wish, he goes to forum, because "Report a bug" in the "Help" menu does not say he can report a wish :)
[06:07] <jsk> _nand_: I personally feel that the idea is solid. I've heard of other people asking for the same thing before. It seems like a "Catch-22" situation - in order to promote the idea for an ideas website, you need an ideas website to do it.
[06:07] <jsk> :)
[06:07] <_nand_> so there should be "Report a bug" and "Post a wish"
[06:08] <_nand_> lol ^^
[06:09] <_nand_> If i can help full-time on this, i'm looking for a six months internship to finish my studies, and i'd be very glad to help :) 
[06:16] <_nand_> jsk: thanks for the brainstorming, this gave a few new ideas, i will complete the blueprint :)
[06:16] <jsk> _nand_: It's good of you to offer. While I'm not involved in that area - it's certainly worth taking a look at http://www.ubuntu.com/employment.
[06:17] <jsk> _nand_: On that page you can find contact details.
[06:17] <_nand_> jsk: thanks and already done :) Waiting for an answer right now...
[06:19] <jsk> _nand_: Thanks again - I appreciate that you've raised these ideas here. I'll be watching your spec :)
[06:20] <_nand_> jsk: ok see ya! getting late here...
[06:20] <_nand_> bye!
[06:21] <jsk> _nand_: cheers!
[06:48] <LaserJock> ok, now what is the difference between "Triaged" and "Confirmed" ?
[06:49] <intellectronica> LaserJock: `Confirmed` means the bug can be reproduced or someone confirms that the bug really exists as reported
[06:50] <LaserJock> and then "Triaged" is it's ready to go
[06:50] <intellectronica> LaserJock: `Triaged` means the development team (or triaging team on bigger projects that have such a team) assigned a milestone, importance, etc'...
[07:20] <ubotu> New bug: #141302 in soyuz "`change-override -S` doesn't cope with inherited binaries" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141302
[08:00] <mayeco> if I change the registrar in a branch why I get this error "Launchpad could not mirror this branch 5 seconds ago.  The error was: Not a branch:"
[08:04] <mayeco> Launchpad could not mirror this branch 4 minutes ago.  The error was: Not a branch:
[08:04] <mayeco> what is that
[08:07] <LarstiQ> mayeco: it doesn't recognise the given location as a branch
[08:17] <mayeco> mmmm why?
[08:17] <mayeco> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch
[08:17] <mayeco> see that
[08:17] <mayeco> I dont know what I did worng
[08:18] <mayeco> I create a branch for the website
[08:18] <mayeco> and then I change the registrant to the ubuntu loco team
[08:18] <mayeco> and I get that error
[08:19] <mayeco> you know what happend LarstiQ
[08:20] <LarstiQ> mayeco: it's trying to mirror from sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mayeco/ubuntu-pa-website/branch, but if you switched the registrant, that location no longer exists aiui
[08:21] <LarstiQ> mayeco: can you still set what location it should mirror from?
[08:22] <mayeco> no that is not in ~mayeco/
[08:22] <mayeco> is in ~ubuntu-pty
[08:22] <mayeco> is in ~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch
[08:23] <mayeco> if I change the registrant why that still seach in ~mayeco?
[08:23] <LarstiQ> mayeco: to that, I don't know the answer, but for a workaround I'd try setting it to ~ubuntu-pty by hand
[08:23] <mayeco> ok thanks
[08:27] <LarstiQ> mayeco: can you confirm you can access sftp://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch ?
[08:27] <mayeco> I can see this -> sftp://mayeco@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch
[08:28] <mayeco> is that right?
[08:28] <LarstiQ> mayeco: what do you mean with 'see'? Can you bzr log it?
[08:32] <mayeco> LarstiQ: bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: sftp://mayeco@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch
[08:32] <mayeco> i cant
[08:33] <LarstiQ> so what did 'see' mean? Using an sftp client to check if the dir exists?
[08:33] <mayeco> yes
[08:33] <mayeco> with konqueror
[08:34] <LarstiQ> mayeco: are there any files in there? Specifically, .bzr/* ?
[08:35] <mayeco> sftp://mayeco@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch is empty
[08:35] <mayeco> nothing...
[08:35] <LarstiQ> mayeco: how did you create it in the first place?
[08:36] <mayeco> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ -> Register branch
[08:37] <mayeco> I have to make more things?
[08:39] <LarstiQ> ah hmm
[08:40] <LarstiQ> mayeco: I usually just directly push a branch, launchpad will pick it up anyway
[08:40] <LarstiQ> so, 'bzr push sftp://mayeco@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/trunk' from an existing branch of the website for example
[08:42] <mayeco> done
[08:43] <mayeco> now there are .bzr files
[08:43] <mayeco> here sftp://mayeco@bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-pty/ubuntu-pa-website/branch/
[08:43] <mayeco> hey
[08:43] <LarstiQ> ok, now we wait
[08:43] <mayeco> the error is gone
[08:43] <LarstiQ> mayeco: yes, now it _actually_ has a branch there :)
[08:44] <mayeco> thank you!
[08:44] <mayeco> sorry i'm a noob
[08:44] <mayeco> LarstiQ: thank your for help!
[08:44] <LarstiQ> np
[08:45] <LarstiQ> mayeco: just one parting tip then, the name 'branch' for a branch isn't very descriptive
[08:45] <mayeco> is becouse I think that will be only that
[08:45] <mayeco> can I change it now?
[08:45] <LarstiQ> mayeco: why not call it 'main' then?
[08:45] <LarstiQ> mayeco: sure
[08:46] <ubotu> New bug: #141317 in launchpad "Add pylint as a make target" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141317
[08:46] <mayeco> done!
[08:46] <mayeco> thanks
[08:46] <LarstiQ> mayeco: next step, commit some stuff and push it :)
[08:46] <mayeco> yeah
[08:46] <mayeco> I'll do it
[08:47] <mayeco> but first we want to create the new website
[10:31] <redondo> hello everybody
[10:33] <redondo> who can i speak to for a question about a launchpad account?
[10:35] <Rinchen> redondo, ask away otherwise you can use Answers to file a question about it
[10:36] <redondo> i was trying to get a launchpad account
[10:36] <redondo> but it tells me that somebody else has already got an account with my email address
[10:36] <redondo> how can this be possible?
[10:38] <lifeless> we may have a record with your email in it because it was part of a bug we imported from another system, when the users of that system migrated, or similarly for packaging details from e.g. debian
[10:38] <lifeless> this isn't really an account, noone else 'has' it or can use it. You can claim it though, at which point it becomes your account and becomes active
[10:39] <redondo> so shall i reset that address?
[10:39] <lifeless> yup
[10:39] <redondo> ok thanks
[10:40] <redondo> bye bye
[10:40] <lifeless> ciao
[10:40] <redondo> ciao :-)
[11:10] <ubotu> New bug: #141360 in launchpad "Include a link from the personal tab to the launchpad domain" [Wishlist,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141360
[11:50] <flacoste> mthaddon: ping