[02:17] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, If possible I would like to work with you on getting moblin-applets into gutsy.
[02:17] <HappyCamp> Probably tomorrow, from the time I am sending this message.  I will be in early tomorrow.
[04:13] <packman86> hey
[04:13] <packman86> anybody there?
[07:32] <dholbach> good morning
[07:39] <Peter_u2> hello kwwii, you around?
[07:40] <dholbach> Peter_u2: he might still be sleeping, it's 7:40 in germany
[07:40] <kwwii> Peter_u2: yepp, got up early today
[07:40] <kwwii> hi dholbach :-)
[07:40] <dholbach> wow... early bird :-)
[07:40] <Peter_u2> Thanks dholbach.:)
[07:40] <Peter_u2> Cool kwwi. 
[07:40] <kwwii> just read your email
[07:41] <Peter_u2> your comments?
[07:41] <kwwii> I missed the arrows and eject icons...they should naturally be in the icon theme under actions
[07:41] <Peter_u2> Yes, I agree.
[07:41] <kwwii> all the other little arrows do belong in it though as they are normally in the widget theme and not in the icon theme
[07:42] <Peter_u2> You mean the arrows belong to icon theme, right?
[07:43] <kwwii> nope, I mean that the little arrows on the scrollbar (for instance) do belong in the widget theme, not in the icon theme
[07:44] <kwwii> basically the ones that DO belong in the icon theme are the back/fore buttons for the browser and the eject symbol
[07:44] <Peter_u2> Ah, yes. 
[07:45] <Peter_u2> Do you agree what I described in item 13?
[07:45] <Peter_u2> on how to figure out pieces.
[07:47] <kwwii> Peter_u2: yes, I agree (that will be the ugly part)
[07:47] <kwwii> Peter_u2: from looking at it I think that we can remove a lot of the pieces
[07:49] <kwwii> Peter_u2: I guess my job is to help create the new png file
[07:53] <kwwii> Peter_u2: my suggestion would be to identify the pieces we do not use...I would then first simply put a bright green piece over those parts in the png file to test that they are not used anywhere
[07:53] <kwwii> Peter_u2: once we know exactly which parts we do need, we can reorder the template layout and png
[07:55] <kwwii> Peter_u2: one question, when you installed the theme, did you install it from the .deb package or did you do it manually by running make install?
[07:55] <Peter_u2> kwwii, sorry for late response. Some network error. I come back now. Kwwi, I will give a list by end of Friday.
[07:56] <kwwii> Peter_u2: excellent, I can start editing the png file as soon as we have that
[08:04] <Peter_u2> Bad wireless. I run from source code. Ah, I know, you install by apt-get install. I believe it's due to incorrect dependency setting in debian control. 
[08:04] <Peter_u2> kwwii, ping, sorry. bad wireless network.
[08:06] <kwwii> Peter_u2: no worries :-)
[08:06] <kwwii> Peter_u2: cool, I'll do it via the makefile then
[08:07] <Peter_u2> kwwii, good.
[08:17] <Peter_u2> kwwii, have a good day
[12:52] <heno> I've written up a UME test case: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEdesktop could someone with mobile experience check it for sanity and fill i a few blanks?
[12:53] <heno> Also, what is the best way to install a test environment on a PC? Is there a wiki page about that?
[12:54] <heno> I'd like to add a guide here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEinstall
[12:56] <amitk> heno: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
[12:56] <heno> amitk: thanks!
[12:56] <amitk> and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/CreatingAnImageForUMEDevice
[12:59] <amitk> heno: the guide looks like a good start
[01:00] <heno> amitk: thanks. I've marked some obvious blanks in [bold] 
[01:01] <amitk> heno: Perhaps there should be a section about configuring 'connectivity'?
[01:01] <heno> amitk: yes, I might leave that for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UMEhardware where I plan to test bluetooth, wireless, etc
[01:02] <heno> although if there is an NM equiv, I should cover that
[01:03] <amitk> ok
[04:34] <kwwii> erm, does anyone know how to change the layout of the keyboard?
[04:35] <kwwii> I am using an external keyboard and it is driving me crazy having to use the english layout
[04:41] <agoliveira> kwwii: You're american, you're supposed to use it :)
[04:41] <kwwii> agoliveira: grrrrr
[04:42] <kwwii> tell that to my keyboard
[04:42] <ian_brasil> kwwii: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-xkb-plugi/
[04:42] <kwwii> I spend half the time typing and half the time poking around to figure out where the right eky is
[04:43] <kwwii> ian_brasil: thanks, I'll check that out
[04:43] <kwwii> dholbach: when you get a chance, I need to talk to you about including the new theme package in our build system and setting it as default, etc
[04:44] <agoliveira> kwwii: Ok, seriously, I didn't try myself but you could try xkbmap or xmodmap
[04:44] <agoliveira> kwwii: ...or the link that Ian just sent :)
[04:44] <kwwii> agoliveira: right, if I only remebered how to edit them :p
[04:45] <dholbach> kwwii: build system?
[04:46] <kwwii> dholbach: well, I have a theme package (taken directly from the nokia stuff) and we need to see that it gets built and that it is set as default for mobile
[04:47] <dholbach> kwwii: *phew* I have no idea how to do that
[04:47] <dholbach> kwwii: I can help you with the packaging, but I don't have a mobile environment or something like that
[04:47] <dholbach> so I wouldn't know which bits to change in which way
[04:47] <kwwii> agoliveira: any idea on that?
[04:48] <kwwii> in any case, we should discuss this tonight at the meeting
[04:48] <Mithrandir> kwwii: just run setxkbmap de in a terminal.
[04:48] <kwwii> Mithrandir: excellent! thanks :-)
[04:49] <kwwii> you just saved me soooo much time
[04:49] <agoliveira> kwwii: Sorry, idea on the keyboard or packaging? I missed the thread.
[04:49] <Mithrandir> (or uk, or jp or whatever you want, of course. :-)
[04:49] <kwwii> agoliveira: on the packaging 
[04:50] <agoliveira> kwwii, dholbach: An lpia chrrot won't help there?
[04:51] <agoliveira> or chroot into the target image created by image-builder
[04:52] <dholbach> I'd prefer to not have to set up image builder or stuff to make changes on that
[04:53] <kwwii> I have no idea...I've pinged Peter_u2 and others per mail...let's see what comes out of it in the meeting tonight
[04:53] <agoliveira> kwwii: Yep. Add that as an agenda item.
[04:55] <kyleN> by the way, I was out on vacation for a week, but I've been thinking about mobile help requirements
[04:56] <kyleN> one thing I've thought is that Yelp switches focus from the app some that could be confusing to the "soccer mom" target user
[04:56] <kyleN> a new help browser that rolls out and takes half screen, maybe with a translucent-to-opaque background, that isn't modal but stays on top would be a nice solution
[04:59] <kyleN> xml content, possibly xslt'd at build time to customize versions...
[04:59] <kyleN> probably no need for xslt transform at run time though.. why bother if its already xhtml?
[05:00] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, ping?
[05:00] <kyleN> so if anyone has thoughts on this matter, please email me.
[05:01] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: hiya
[05:01] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: afk for some food, but I'm generally around
[05:01] <HappyCamp> Hi, good evening.
[05:01] <ian_brasil> kyleN: maybe write a mozilla XPCOM component app?? 
[05:01] <HappyCamp> Okay.  I had a request from one of our guys.  ToddBrandt wants us to get moblin-applets into the repository.  Mithrandir 
[05:02] <HappyCamp> I mean into Gutsy
[05:03] <HappyCamp> Off topic.  Anybody found a cheaper yet close in hotel than Hotel @ MIT?  $229.00 + tax, seems like a lot of money.  I will have to sweet talk my management.
[05:06] <kyleN> ian_brasil, I'm trying to chat with you offline so I can undertand your idea better
[05:06] <HappyCamp> Though I guess for the people from Europe it is no problem.  Dollar at new low against Euro: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/20/dollar.euro.ap/index.html
[05:08] <ian_brasil> kyleN: welcome to the proxy from hell..we are being routed through a machine in argentina so i think personal chats are out ...i will mail you 
[05:09] <kyleN> ian_brasil. OK - thanks
[05:09] <HappyCamp> agoliveira_lunch, When you get back from lunch.  Lets chat about the packages that need to get into Gutsy.
[05:17] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: dollar at a new low against CAD. :-P
[05:18] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, Nice for you, sucks for us, unless I'm selling stuff :(
[05:18] <Mithrandir> indeed.
[05:19] <Mithrandir> 5.62 NOK to a USD, down from 9 less than ten years ago, iirc.
[05:37] <agoliveira> HappyCamp: Hi. About the hotel, maybe our chaps @ Papper can help but IIRC, this is around the usual values around there and about the packages, what can I do to help?
[05:37] <agoliveira> s/Papper/Pepper
[05:38] <agoliveira> need... coffee... fast...
[05:53] <Sciri> agoliveira/HappyCamp: I'm not up on the hotel rates but if you ping Mary Ellen or Len they should be able to point you at some favorites. Although if all else fails there's always Boston Hostel for $27.99 a night. ;) http://www.bostonhostel.org/reservations.shtml
[05:58] <Mithrandir> asac,agoliveira,kwwii,amitk: Present for the meeting?
[05:58] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Indeed.
[05:59] <Charliefjohnson> Charlie & Don from Intel UMG are on.
[06:00] <amitk> Mithrandir: here
[06:00] <Mithrandir> hi Carl
[06:00] <cwong1> hi
[06:01] <ToddBrandtClone> I'm here, still working on my status update, will send in a few minutes
[06:01] <kwwii> hi
[06:02] <HappyCamp> I'm here for the meeting.  Sorry I'm late.
[06:02] <kwwii> I cannot stay for very long though...perhaps we can discuss the themeing earlier rather than later?
[06:02] <Mithrandir> kwwii: sure, we can sneak it in at the beginning?
[06:03] <kwwii> sounds good
[06:03] <HappyCamp> What's the email address to send the status reports to??
[06:03] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Are collecting agenda items ??  I'd like to add a schedule update.
[06:03] <Mithrandir> ubuntu-mobile@lists.ubuntu.com
[06:03] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: yes, I am
[06:03] <HappyCamp> thanks!
[06:03] <Mithrandir> hi Mauri
[06:03] <Mithrandir> is Peter joining us too?
[06:03] <mawahlen> Good Morning
[06:04] <mawahlen> I believe Peter should be here, I'll go see
[06:04] <kwwii> my guess is that it is way too late for Peter_u2
[06:04] <Mithrandir> I was thinking the other Peter
[06:04] <mawahlen> It's a different Peter, Peter Tung who is a manager for our embedded broup
[06:05] <cwong1> peter will be joining shortly
[06:05] <kwwii> well, if we are going to discuss themeing we really would need Peter_u2 and bspencer
[06:05] <mdz> morning folks
[06:05] <Mithrandir> Bob's on a plane today, so he won't be in attendance.
[06:05] <Mithrandir> hiya mdz
[06:06] <kwwii> then I guess I can just give a status report on the themeing and we can work out the other stuff when we talk to everyone
[06:06] <HappyCamp> beginmeeting?? :)
[06:06] <asac> Mithrandir: here
[06:06] <Mithrandir> yeah, we'll start now.
[06:06] <Mithrandir> #startmeeting
[06:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 15:55. The chair is Mithrandir.
[06:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
[06:06] <ptung1> Peter is here
[06:06] <Mithrandir> hiya Peter
[06:06] <mawahlen> Is Rusty around?  He was also travelling
[06:07] <ptung1> Rusty went to Seattle today to meet with a customer
[06:07] <Mithrandir> his IRC client is, but it appears idle.
[06:07] <Mithrandir> kwwii has requested that we start with the theming, since he needs to leave early.
[06:07] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Theming
[06:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Theming 
[06:07] <Mithrandir> kwwii: shoot
[06:07] <kwwii> so...here is where we are:
[06:07] <kwwii> I have put a theme on launchpad based on the existing nokia theme stuff
[06:08] <kwwii> Peter_u2 made a list of the graphics we really need and the ones we do not
[06:08] <kwwii> we need to get his stuff into some kind of package which is selected as default and installable at least at build time so that I can start tweaking and testing
[06:08] <kwwii> for the time being we can use the theme that I have put on launchpad, it is black and orange and at least partially what we want
[06:09] <kwwii> basically it has way too many pic
[06:09] <kwwii> s
[06:09] <Mithrandir> what's the reason we can't use the same build system Nokia uses for their themes?
[06:09] <kwwii> Mithrandir: we can use their stuff, I guess but I really have no idea about that
[06:10] <kwwii> it builds fine, but is uninstallable as a deb because of some dependency
[06:10] <kwwii> so for now doing make and make install will install it
[06:10] <Mithrandir> hm, ok, we need to get it into a package ASAP.
[06:10] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: any chance you could do that?
[06:10] <kwwii> but the themeing that we have in now is just a hack (pics that were simply copied over)
[06:10] <agoliveira> Yes, I can take a look.
[06:11] <Mithrandir> ok
[06:11] <kwwii> if someone takes the stuff that I have on launchpad and sees that it works as default we can start from there
[06:11] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  agoliveira to investigate packaging of Ubuntu theme from what's on Launchpad
[06:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  agoliveira to investigate packaging of Ubuntu theme from what's on Launchpad 
[06:11] <agoliveira> kwwii: Let's talk privately later (or tomorrow) so I can speed it up ok?
[06:11] <kwwii> after that we need to merge Peter_u2's changes so that we reduce the extra work
[06:11] <kwwii> agoliveira: sounds good
[06:11] <agoliveira> Deal.
[06:11] <Mithrandir> absolutely, less work is always good :-)
[06:11] <Mithrandir> moving on?
[06:12] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Action items from last meeting
[06:12] <kwwii> well, aside from that we need to get the icon theme going as well
[06:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action items from last meeting 
[06:12] <kwwii> but that is all from me
[06:12] <Mithrandir> http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20070913_1554.html has the previous set of action items.
[06:12] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20070913_1554.html has the previous set of action items. 
[06:12] <mawahlen> Note - Peter Zhu is on vacation now so please make sure to include Bob on any items related to themes
[06:12] <Mithrandir> mawahlen: ok, thanks.
[06:12] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: you were to follow up with Steve wrt EXA 2.1 patch
[06:13] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: what's the state of that?
[06:13] <Charliefjohnson> We're still discussing. I have a round of emails from Bryce that I have fully digested.
[06:13] <Charliefjohnson> have NOT fully digested!
[06:14] <smagoun> Charliefjohnson, what's the ETA on a decision?
[06:15] <Charliefjohnson> smagoun: Were you on that last Bryce email ??  I didn't check.
[06:15] <Charliefjohnson> Also the problem goes away if we rebase on Hardy Heron.
[06:15] <smagoun> I haven't received any mail from you or Bryce, other than one that said Alan H. had an unspecified problem with the patch.
[06:16] <Charliefjohnson> I'll forward it.  And also put it on the ubuntu-mobile list.
[06:16] <smagoun> thanks
[06:17] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: mind if I give you an action item so we see this through to its conclusion?
[06:17] <Charliefjohnson> That's fine.  
[06:17] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  Charlie to continue following up psb/EXA 2.1 patch with Steve and Bryce
[06:17] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Charlie to continue following up psb/EXA 2.1 patch with Steve and Bryce 
[06:17] <Mithrandir> ToddBrandtClone: you were to investigate dbus for gconf, what do you have to report?
[06:18] <ToddBrandtClone> well, as I understand it, gconf 2.6 and greater has dbus bindings added
[06:18] <ToddBrandtClone> ubuntu gutsy uses 2.1
[06:18] <ToddBrandtClone> so we're still corba based
[06:19] <ToddBrandtClone> So we can try to upgrade to 2.6 but I don't know what the implications are
[06:19] <Mithrandir> libgconf seems to be in sync with the gnome version, which means we're at 2.20
[06:19] <ToddBrandtClone> on gutsy?
[06:20] <ToddBrandtClone> hmm, maybe they just didn't update the version number in the documentation
[06:20] <Mithrandir>     gconf2 | 2.20.0-0ubuntu1 |         gutsy | source, amd64, i386, powerpc
[06:22] <ToddBrandtClone> well there you have it, ok but I don't see any dbus bindings for gconf in the target, as far as I can tell it just uses corba
[06:22] <Mithrandir> but gconftool isn't linked against libdbus, just libORBit, so.
[06:22] <Mithrandir> yes, but you were going to check out the feasability of switching it to using dbus?
[06:22] <ToddBrandtClone> ok, I still must not understand what Bob wanted with this one
[06:23] <ToddBrandtClone> I'll ping him offline and we'll resolve this
[06:23] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  ToddBrandt to talk with bspencer about gconf and dbus and report back
[06:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ToddBrandt to talk with bspencer about gconf and dbus and report back 
[06:23] <Mithrandir> I was to get mobile-application-service removed from the archive, that's done as of today.
[06:24] <Mithrandir> bfiller_,rustyl and bob were to work out the event mechanism in mobile-basic-flash
[06:24] <Mithrandir> bfiller_: you around and can comment on that?
[06:24] <bfiller_> yes
[06:24] <bfiller_> we made some good progress on some of the issues
[06:24] <bfiller_> comments are all posted on ubuntu-mobile list
[06:25] <bfiller_> I'm working on a patch that implements some of the proposed changes and will be sending to Bob within the next couple of days
[06:25] <Mithrandir> ok, sounds good.
[06:25] <bfiller_> Bob made a bunch of changes too and his stuff is checked in
[06:26] <Mithrandir> I was to raise scheduling and freezes on the mailing list, something I failed to do due to a bit of flu.  There's an agenda item for it later on, so I suspect I'll take an action item then.
[06:26] <bfiller_> some of the issues are still ongoing, and we'll need to continue a dialog to come up with a solution
[06:26] <Mithrandir> sure.
[06:27] <Mithrandir> amitk: you were to work out how to work around such problems as we've been having with unionfs
[06:27] <Mithrandir> have you had a chance to talk with the relevant people, etc?
[06:28] <amitk> Mithrandir: yes
[06:28] <amitk> the only solution is testing. I am afraid if that sounds like a cliche
[06:29] <amitk> on the other hand with save/restore functionality in m-i-c, it shouldn't happen too often
[06:29] <Mithrandir> it'll still break dailies, though.
[06:29] <Charliefjohnson> amitk: Is there an update?  FYI - This daily build breakage is very visible.
[06:29] <amitk> Charliefjohnson: the fix is working in internal testing
[06:30] <Charliefjohnson> amitk:Is there an ETA?
[06:30] <amitk> there is a kernel upload going on as we speak.
[06:30] <Mithrandir> I'll be testing (and fixing, if possible) any problems with tomorrow's dailies.
[06:30] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: On your Crown Beach?
[06:30] <amitk> Charliefjohnson: The daily build breakage was unrelated...
[06:31] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: on my crown beach and on my Q1, yes.
[06:31] <Mithrandir> amitk: the dailies have been useless due to the unionfs problem, though.
[06:31] <amitk> Charliefjohnson: same here
[06:31] <Charliefjohnson> amitk:  There's the fact that the daily builds weren't occuring and then the fact that they won't install.  Yes different issues.
[06:32] <Mithrandir> I failed to send Charlie an updated list of licences, so I'll take that as a new action item.
[06:32] <Mithrandir> [ACTION]  tfheen to send CharliefJohnson updated list of licences for UME components.
[06:32] <MootBot> ACTION received:  tfheen to send CharliefJohnson updated list of licences for UME components. 
[06:32] <Charliefjohnson> mdz: sent it to us yesterday.
[06:32] <Mithrandir> oh, the complete list?  Good.
[06:32] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: you were to update the wiki with which applications have been chosen, this is done now, right?
[06:33] <agoliveira> Yes, with Charliefjohnson's help I might add.
[06:33] <Mithrandir> thanks
[06:33] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: I think it was the complete list.  I can't really know.
[06:33] <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: Yes I now know how to do Wiki tables.
[06:33] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: well, we'll be wanting to send it to you periodically, I suspect, so.
[06:33] <Mithrandir> hm, I guess I could extract it as part of the image build process..
[06:34] <Mithrandir> moving on
[06:34] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Status reports
[06:34] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status reports 
[06:34] <Mithrandir> mawahlen: can you give us an update on Bob's specs, or haven't he given anything to you?
[06:35] <mawahlen> I haven't seen anything from Bob, I'll check on it
[06:35] <Mithrandir> ok, he's travelling, but it would then be good if he had sent it out last week.
[06:36] <mawahlen> Mithrandir: just so I make sure, are you talking about the status?
[06:36] <Mithrandir> mawahlen: yes, the current status of the mobile UI and the media player.
[06:36] <mawahlen> I'll chat with him today
[06:36] <Mithrandir> thanks.
[06:36] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: we got the graphics update from you, but I didn't see anything about the USB client or the hardware decode bits, can you give us an update on those?
[06:36] <Charliefjohnson> mawahlen: If Bob knows he's going to miss the IRC meeting, can we make sure that status update occurs or someone is designated to represent?  
[06:37] <mawahlen> Charliefjohnson: yes, that is true
[06:37] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir:  I sent them a reminder yesterday.  But didn't get an update.  Unfortunately - those teams don't actively participate here.  
[06:38] <Mithrandir> ok. :-/  If you could prod them again, that'd be good.
[06:38] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: I'll nag them again.
[06:38] <Mithrandir> thanks
[06:39] <Mithrandir> Peter_u2 isn't around, but do we have anybody present who could give an update on mobile-chat?
[06:41] <Mithrandir> oh well, nobody, it seems.
[06:41] <Mithrandir> Peter_u2: if you could send a status update to the list, that'd be welcome.
[06:42] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  moblin.org -> UME syncing, status?
[06:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  moblin.org -> UME syncing, status? 
[06:42] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: how's the flow of new and updated packages going?
[06:42] <Mithrandir> does the process work for you?
[06:42] <HappyCamp> ToddBrandt wants me to get moblin-applets into UME
[06:42] <mawahlen> For Chat - here is the status Peter left me
[06:42] <mawahlen> For chat, I'll continue working on wireframe UI and EDS and voip integration after vacation. Empathy maintainer is taking a detailed look at my code. But he suggests having this hildon branch hosted in moblin. This is not surprise. Most of applications of hildonization from gnome/gtk are hosted in garage.maemo.org like pidgin-hildon. I'll continue delivering bug fixes and some common...
[06:42] <mawahlen> ...features improvements to Empathy as usual. And I will continue merging upstream Empathy improvements as well. 
[06:42] <HappyCamp> Nobody else has asked.  So I was hoping to work with Mithrandir today to get moblin-applets in.
[06:43] <HappyCamp> I will bug the rest of our guys.
[06:43] <HappyCamp> Question though.  Do you want everything pushed into Gutsy?  Everything that we have on Moblin.org?
[06:43] <ToddBrandtClone> Mithrandir/HappyCamp: let me know if there's anything I can provide to help with this process
[06:43] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: it's probably useful if you go around and nab their code and push it in, so we have a good flow going.
[06:43] <HappyCamp> If so, I will bother more people.
[06:43] <HappyCamp> Okay.  I can just go ahead and take their code and work with you.
[06:43] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: in my ideal world, you would not need to host stuff on moblin.org at all.
[06:43] <Charliefjohnson> mawahlen: I'm confused.  Is UME going to use the MOBLIN chat?  I thought UME had a different chat chosen?  
[06:44] <HappyCamp> Or if there are other MOTUs I can work with, let me know.
[06:44] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: are there particular pieces of code you are concerned about?
[06:44] <HappyCamp> Mithrandir, that would be fine with me personally.  Though I am not in charge and don't know all the great reasons we have for hosting stuff on moblin.org.
[06:44] <asac> Mithrandir: HappyCamp: if you are short of reviewers/sponsors, I could help out i guess.
[06:44] <HappyCamp> I can be the team mushroom at times. 
[06:45] <HappyCamp> Kept in the dark, fed b*#l sh*t ;)
[06:45] <HappyCamp> asac, Okay.  Let me know if there are any particular packages you prefer to approve.  Can do that offline.
[06:45] <Mithrandir> asac: if you could help HappyCamp, that'd be very helpful, yes.
[06:46] <mawahlen> Mithrandir: you'll have to answer the question on what chat application you intend to you.  I know you took Peter's code.  
[06:46] <asac> HappyCamp: i prefer to be a more or less dedicated sponsor for some packages ... instead of random ones ... i suggest to just start and i say stop when i have enough :)
[06:46] <agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: IFIAK, it's the moblin-chat, yes, at least at least for now.
[06:46] <Mithrandir> mawahlen: yes, I'll follow up on that email.
[06:47] <agoliveira> Charliefjohnson: Sorry, I didn't see you ask mawahlen directly.
[06:47] <HappyCamp> asac, okay.
[06:47] <asac> HappyCamp: if you have a package to review/sponsor, just ping me
[06:47] <Charliefjohnson> agoliveira: OK.  The fog is clearing.
[06:47] <Mithrandir> oh, sorry, yes, we're taking moblin-chat, which is basically empathy + hildon patches
[06:48] <Mithrandir> and that's going to be the chat client of choice for UME
[06:48] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: how are your teams doing wrt getting code ready to put into Ubuntu?
[06:49] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir:  I assume you're talking about graphics, video decode, etc ?
[06:49] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: correct.
[06:51] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir:  The way it has been working is that these team drop a "reference" driver then between myself and Mauri's folks and the relavant Canonical maintainer, we package it into Moblin and UME.
[06:53] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir:  One discussion that needs to occur is how to handle the closed source pieces.  Since I had have had a drop any of that yet, I haven't worked it out.  
[06:54] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Who's the right Canonical person to start discussing this with?
[06:54] <Mithrandir> probably the relevant maintainer, again.
[06:55] <Mithrandir> it'll have to go to restricted or multiverse as appropriate, but that's something you know
[06:55] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Bryce for graphics.  It's been helpful that he is in the same timezone.
[06:55] <Mithrandir> I can imagine.
[06:56] <Mithrandir> if you start out by fleshing out a process with Bryce, that's probably good and we can use the same one for other components as appropriate.
[06:56] <Mithrandir> moving on?
[06:56] <Mithrandir> [TOPIC]  Schedule update
[06:56] <MootBot> New Topic:  Schedule update 
[06:57] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: your agenda item
[06:58] <Charliefjohnson> Have you incorrporated the intermediate builds we've requested into the schedule yet?
[06:58] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: When can you re-publish?
[06:58] <jpan_laptop> Charliefjohnson , FYI we had a process between Bryce, Waldo, and Calvin w.r.t. graphics and libva. i will send you a link
[06:59] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: early next week, this week has mostly gone down the drain due to being sick.
[06:59] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir:  Commit to a specific day?
[06:59] <Mithrandir> end of my Tuesday?
[07:00] <Don_Johnson> The current schedule shows a BetaFreeze today (Sept 20th). It does not sound like that is happening.  When do we expect to do that Beta Freeze?
[07:00] <Mithrandir> Don_Johnson: it's Ubuntu Beta Freeze, and that is happening.
[07:00] <Don_Johnson> OK, thankyou
[07:01] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Sep. 20 - Autobuilt images with flash?  (Complete?)
[07:02] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: no, not complete, delayed due to lpia images being late.
[07:03] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Can you send out a marked up schedule ??  So we know where we are?
[07:04] <Mithrandir> yes, I can do that with the updated one on Tuesday.
[07:06] <Don_Johnson> OK, that should take care of it
[07:06] <Mithrandir> any other business?
[07:06] <Mithrandir> adjourned.
[07:06] <Mithrandir> #endmeeting
[07:06] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:56.
[07:07] <asac> thanks
[07:07] <agoliveira> Yeay! Almost 1 hour :)
[07:07] <HappyCamp> Wow, quick meeting.
[07:07] <HappyCamp> I thought I was going to be able to brag about my save/load project feature in MIC ;)
[07:07] <agoliveira> HappyCamp: Too late :)
[07:08] <Mithrandir> HappyCamp: didn't you do that in the status report sent to the list?
[07:08] <HappyCamp> I did 
[07:08] <Mithrandir> good :-)
[07:11] <HappyCamp> asac, I would like to work on getting moblin-applets into Gutsy.  What can I do to help you do that?  "Help me, help you" (Jerry Maguire quote)
[07:16] <asac> HappyCamp: hehe :) ... what timezone are you in?
[07:16] <HappyCamp> PDT, Oregon timezone.  Same timezone as California.
[07:16] <HappyCamp> So it is 10:16 am right now.
[07:17] <asac> HappyCamp: in general the best is to provide me a ready package
[07:17] <asac> HappyCamp: you already have those applets as packages in moblin, right?
[07:17] <HappyCamp> asac, Yep.
[07:17] <HappyCamp> asac, http://www.moblin.org/build-results/projects/moblin-applets/
[07:18] <asac> Mithrandir: whats the idea about bringing moblin packages into gutsy? do we want diff.gz orig.tar.gz?
[07:19] <Mithrandir> asac: we've done .tar.gz so far.
[07:19] <Mithrandir> since they don't do normal upstream releases as such
[07:20] <asac> ok ... but they bump versioning properly?
[07:20] <asac> i look at http://www.moblin.org/build-results/projects/moblin-applets/ ... its versioned 0.5
[07:21] <HappyCamp> asac, is that wrong?  Is there a prefered versioning that we aren't using?
[07:21] <asac> HappyCamp: nono ... its just important that you bump the version whenever you release.
[07:22] <asac> but you probably do that ... otherwise moblin images won't receive an upgrade on dist-upgrade.
[07:22] <HappyCamp> asac, We try to bump the version whenever it goes into Gutsy.  We have been doing that whenever Mithrandir pulls in Image Creator.
[07:23] <HappyCamp> We are also planning on fixing our build system at Moblin.org so that we only build the package and put it into our apt repository when the person bumps the version.  Not yet done yet.  So any time a commit happens it gets built and put into the apt-repository.  Which is bad and we know it.
[07:24] <HappyCamp> Kind of a homebrew build system that we made.
[07:24] <HappyCamp> Or more precisely, that I made.
[07:24] <asac> HappyCamp: ah ok ... that resolves my concerns.
[07:24] <asac> separating debian/ dir and upstream source is not an option for you?
[07:25] <HappyCamp> asac, What upstream source?
[07:26] <HappyCamp> How would I go about separating?
[07:26] <HappyCamp> Moblin applets is our very own package.  Some of the other packages that we have though are temporary (hopefully) forks.
[07:27] <HappyCamp> So if there is something I need to do different, please let me know.  I am not a debian package guru, unfortunately :(
[07:28] <bfiller_> HappyCamp, Mithrandir: can I bother either of you for a git question?
[07:28] <HappyCamp> bfiller_, go ahead, I can try.
[07:29] <bfiller_> I git-cloned mobile-basic-flash from moblin and have made and commited changes to my local clone.
[07:29] <bfiller_> HappyCamp, now I want to diff and make a patch vs. what's upstream
[07:29] <asac> ok ... its not a problem ... just uncommon :) ... usually one develops a software and then someone else builds a package on top of it ... which is why we usually talk about "upstream source" (a source release without debian/ dir) and the debian packaging source (usually shipped in a diff.gz)
[07:29] <HappyCamp> asac, We have made them as native debian packages from the start.
[07:30] <HappyCamp> bfiller_, git diff HEAD^
[07:30] <asac> right
[07:30] <amitk> does anyone know how to change touchscreen sensitivity on the samsung?
[07:30] <bfiller_> HappyCamp, cool, I'll give it a try (thought it would be more complex :)
[07:30] <asac> HappyCamp: we can start this way now. I am now almost done for today, so I can start tomorrow ... if you have more apps that need a sponsor, let me know.
[07:30] <HappyCamp> The ^ means one before.
[07:31] <bfiller_> HappyCamp, one before what?
[07:31] <HappyCamp> asac, Okay.  Whatever I can do to help let me know.  I just bumped the version in our repository.  So it is 0.6 now and says UNRELEASED rather than feisty.
[07:31] <HappyCamp> It should be built soon.
[07:31] <HappyCamp> bfiller_, You can also do HEAD-1 = HEAD^  HEAD^^^ = HEAD-3 and so on.
[07:32] <HappyCamp> bfiller_, one before the HEAD
[07:32] <HappyCamp> That is what I meant by ^ means one before.
[07:33] <bfiller_> HappyCamp, thanks for the help
[07:37] <Mithrandir> bfiller_: git diff $sha1_of_where_you_branched_off..HEAD will give you that delta
[07:42] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: Are we done?
[07:43] <bfiller_> Mithrandir, how do I figure out what the $sha1_of_where_you_branched from?
[07:43] <bfiller_> Mithrandir, and I did a clone, not a branch if that matters
[07:44] <amitk> bfiller_: 'git diff master' is what you want :)
[07:44] <Mithrandir> Charliefjohnson: with the meeting?  About 40 minutes ago.
[07:45] <bfiller_> amitk, ah, sound easy. That will give a diff of my latest vs. upstreams latest?
[07:45] <Charliefjohnson> Mithrandir: I missed the #endmeeting.  Thanks.
[07:47] <amitk> bfiller_: yes... to be precise, it will give you your _local_ changes made on top of _your_ copy of upstream
[07:55] <bfiller_> amitk, I and update my  copy of upstream by doing git fetch, followed by git rebase origin, is that correct?
[07:56] <amitk> bfiller_: that is correct
[07:56] <bfiller_> amitk, great, thanks
[10:27] <HappyCamp> asac, amitk or others.  Does anyone know an easy way to have debuild ignore the .git/ directory when building the source package?
[10:27] <HappyCamp> I assume have to add something into debian/rules
[10:28] <HappyCamp> Oh, on an unrelated note:  Intel announced http://www.lesswatts.org/  Which has info which should be useful to the mobile community.
[10:29] <amitk> HappyCamp: just add it to the .gitignore file in the toplevel directory
[10:29] <amitk> HappyCamp: nevermind... 
[10:29] <HappyCamp> amitk, Huh?  Add the .git/ directory to the .gitignore file?
[10:30] <HappyCamp> Okay, that confused me :)
[10:30] <amitk> my answer was for git to ignore debuild :-p
[10:30] <HappyCamp> LOL
[10:32] <amitk> HappyCamp: I don't know the answer to your question.. 
[10:32] <HappyCamp> amitk, thanks for trying!  I appreciate it.
[10:32] <HappyCamp> Maybe I'll try the scary channel known as #ubuntu  So much traffic there :(
[10:34] <smagoun> Fewer! It should be "fewer watts," less is grammatically incorrect. </pedantry>
[10:38] <asac> HappyCamp: i use dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -i.git ... to ignore .git
[10:38] <HappyCamp> asac, sweet thanks!
[10:39] <asac> maybe -i is available for debuild as well
[10:39] <HappyCamp> thanks.
[11:14] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: FYI: I'm making a temporary fork of the network-manager source on moblin.org in order to try out some changes to nm-applet. I haven't decided if we actually want to create a separate version of nm-applet or maybe just add some changes that could be pushed upstream.
[11:15] <asac> ToddBrandtClone: whats your idea?
[11:15] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: the major change is that nm-applet for moblin needs to call the control panel applet "network configuration" via libosso. Is there any chance that we could make this small change and encapsulate it with a ./configure option and push it back to you?
[11:16] <asac> ToddBrandtClone: you mean for "manual configuration ..." ?
[11:16] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: yea
[11:16] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: also we just want a temporary build environment where we can test out some GUI ideas
[11:16] <asac> how do you invoke network configuration with libosso?
[11:17] <asac> maybe there is a wrapper binary available, so you don't have to link against it?
[11:17] <asac> what other gui ideas do you have?
[11:18] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: there's a function in the hildon include files that calls a control panel applet directly, basically nm-applet would have to sync with libosso and call that function instead of spawning network-admin
[11:19] <ToddBrandtClone> actually for other GUI ideas I don't have any specifically, there just may be some minor tweaks to make things fit on a small form factor
[11:19] <asac> ToddBrandtClone: yes i understand that there is a lib function ... i wondered if there is a wrapper binary ... 
[11:20] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: do you mean some executable that can be called which will spawn a control panel applet?
[11:20] <asac> right ... the point is that allowing nm-applet to spawn other admin frontends is a valid feature that would even be suitable for upstream
[11:21] <asac> while configure tweaks for libosso et al is pretty hacky
[11:21] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: ahhhh, I understand now
[11:21] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: I could create a wrapper binary easy
[11:21] <asac> so basically we could add a test if this or that binary is available and then spawn that
[11:21] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: sounds perfect
[11:21] <asac> so we wouldn't need a configure switch for that
[11:22] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: do you have the bandwidth to make that change in nm-applet? Or would you mind if I tried it?
[11:22] <asac> feel free to try it.
[11:23] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: ok, will do, thanks!
[11:23] <asac> its probably best if the same person does the config launcher and the nm-applet integration
[11:23] <asac> we can then take a look
[11:23] <asac> on the other front ... if you have specific ideas on how to make nm-applet more suitable for small-form-factors let me know
[11:24] <asac> though while looking at it the applet drop-down appears pretty well suited for touch screens et al.
[11:25] <ToddBrandtClone> asac: yea, I honestly don't expect to change it, I just don't want to rule it out
[11:25] <asac> ToddBrandtClone: i am pretty open to patch network-manager applet if you really need it
[11:26] <asac> ToddBrandtClone: but at best thats not needed ;)