[04:55] <ubotu> New bug: #141412 in launchpad "bzr+ssh: branches cannot be attached to bugs" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141412
[07:01] <mthaddon> Launchpad going offline in 15 mins for 1 hour for upgrade
[08:51] <carlos> morning
[09:54] <siretart> any soyuz god around? soyuz is rejecting my uploads to ubutnu containing an orig.tar.gz when that file is already in an ppa
[09:54] <siretart> this is rather critical
[09:57] <BjornT> siretart: bigjools should be around soon, but you might have to wait for cprov (who should come online in a few hours)
[09:58] <siretart> ok
[09:58] <siretart> thanks
[10:00] <BjornT> bigjools: < siretart> any soyuz god around? soyuz is rejecting my uploads to ubutnu containing an orig.tar.gz when that file is already in an ppa
[10:00] <BjornT> bigjools: < siretart> this is rather critical
[10:01] <siretart> hi bigjools 
[10:01] <bigjools> what a nice welcome to the morning :)
[10:01] <bigjools> I'll have a look
[10:01] <siretart> bigjools: I can forward you the reject message if you want - the package was 'live-initramfs' to gutsy
[10:01] <bigjools> siretart: yes please
[10:01] <bigjools> julian@canonical.com
[10:02] <siretart> done
[10:02] <bigjools> thx
[10:02] <siretart> it says that the 'orig.tar.gz' cannot be found, which is a lie, because me dput .upload file confirms that it has been uploaded
[10:04] <bigjools> siretart: what makes you think it's because of the PPA?
[10:05] <siretart> bigjools: this is a specially crafted fakesync, which I'm actually not supposed to do, because ubuntu-archive has hand-crafted scripts for this
[10:05] <siretart> bigjools: in this particular case, seb128 asked me to do it this way, because according to him that script was failing because the orig.tar.gz was in a PPA
[10:05] <siretart> bigjools: I don't know how seb128 comes to this conclusion
[10:05] <bigjools> ok
[10:06] <bigjools> thanks for the background
[10:55] <bigjools> siretart: I tested that theory and it looks wrong
[10:56] <siretart> bigjools: okay. But you could confirm the problem then?
[10:56] <bigjools> siretart: it would be good if you could try uploading the same package to dogfood so we can rule out a packaging error
[10:56] <bigjools> siretart: I've not re-created this yet
[10:56] <siretart> bigjools: sure. which host?
[10:56] <bigjools> mawson.canonical.com
[10:57] <siretart> bigjools: uploaded
[10:57] <bigjools> siretart: thanks I will take a look
[10:59] <siretart> bigjools: just received another reject message from "archive@ubuntu.com"
[10:59] <bigjools> siretart: same error?
[10:59] <siretart> bigjools: no, this time I get this one:
[10:59] <siretart> Rejected:
[10:59] <siretart> Signing key 709F54E4ECF3195623326AE3F82E5CC04B2B2B9E not registered in launchpad.
[10:59] <siretart> Sourceful upload without a .dsc
[11:00] <siretart> Unable to find the dsc file in the sourceful upload?
[11:00] <bigjools> darn it
[11:00] <siretart> oh wait
[11:00] <siretart> there is indeed something fishy here
[11:01] <siretart> the changes file is signed by me, but I kept the signature on the dsc file from the debian maintainer
[11:01] <siretart> maybe this is a problem?
[11:02] <siretart> however it is still strange that I get a different error message for the same upload
[11:03] <bigjools> siretart: yes dogfood is slightly behind production, it's our testing ground
[11:04] <siretart> please tell me if you need another upload, or if I should resign the dsc file
[11:05] <bigjools> can you resign it please
[11:05] <siretart> and upload to dogfood or production?
[11:05] <bigjools> (sorry if I seem vacant, I am addressing another production issue at the same time)
[11:05] <bigjools> upload to dogfood again
[11:05] <bigjools> I want to see if we can reprpoduce the same error there
[11:10] <siretart> reuploaded to dogfood
[11:13] <CoD_FSFE> hello, I have a nooooobish question to ask about launchpad.... :)
[11:14] <bigjools> siretart: thanks, I'll take a look, assuming it didn't get rejected?
[11:15] <evadave> CoD_FSFE: first rule of asking questions - just ask them :P
[11:15] <siretart> bigjools: no idea, becuase I didn't receive any message.
[11:15] <bigjools> siretart: ok it was probably accepted then
[11:15] <CoD_FSFE> lol ok: I'm the itlaina translator of the game scourge, now we have a new contributor but his translations need review before being submitted. 
[11:15] <CoD_FSFE> *italian
[11:16] <CoD_FSFE> I think we should create a group and add me as italian translator and leave him as a contributor... am I right?
[11:18] <CoD_FSFE> I'm not sure about the difference between teams and groups and how to create them: waht we need is a sort of "translator in charge" who should check contirbutions before merging them in the main po file
[11:18] <Kuhrscher> carlos, danilos: I asked you some days ago about the missing kmplayer.mo in the langpacks...
[11:19] <Kuhrscher> carlos, danilos: Even in the latest langpacks it is not included, although it has a template in Rosetta...
[11:19] <carlos> let me see...
[11:20] <Kuhrscher> carlos: Btw. shouldn't there be a translations file for restricted manager and aport in the lanmgpacks for Kubuntu too?
[11:21] <carlos> restricted manager has a problem I need to look into
[11:21] <carlos> about apport... no idea, that's something to discuss with Martin Pitt
[11:21] <carlos> he does the split
[11:23] <CoD_FSFE> so is there anyone who can tell me how to create team/group and if this is what we need to manage contributions?
[11:24] <danilos> 
[11:24] <bigjools> siretart: it was ok in dogfood.  I think we need to wait for cprov to arrive and he'll be able to help further.
[11:24] <Kuhrscher> carlos: Thanks, I'll ask him. And this kmplayer issue?
[11:24] <danilos> CoD_FSFE: file a support ticket at answers.launchpad.net/rosetta/, and we'll help you with that
[11:25] <CoD_FSFE> ok thanks
[11:25] <siretart> bigjools: ok. I see
[11:25] <bigjools> siretart: sorry I can't help further at the moment :(
[11:25] <siretart> bigjools: normally, I woudl file a bug against soyuz, but I'm not sure how to describe the problem in a way that helps you to find the problem
[11:27] <bigjools> siretart: file it as best as you can please so we can track the issue
[11:28] <siretart> I'll paste this irc query
[11:28] <bigjools> thanks
[11:29] <carlos> Kuhrscher: hmm, indeed, there is a problem with it
[11:29] <carlos> Kuhrscher: could you file a bug report? I don't see any reason it's not being exported
[11:29] <Kuhrscher> I already did...
[11:30] <Kuhrscher> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/123544
[11:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 123544 in kmplayer "Kmplayer Package does not contain translations" [Undecided,Confirmed]  
[11:31] <siretart> field as bug #141457
[11:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141457 in soyuz "upload rejected because of appearantly missing orig.tar.gz (which is uploaded)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141457
[11:31] <Kuhrscher> The bug title is a little bit misleading at the moment ...
[11:31] <CoD_FSFE> /part
[11:32] <carlos> Kuhrscher: oh, wait!
[11:33] <carlos> if it was moved from universe to main, the problem will be fixed once we do a new full language pack update for Gutsy
[11:33] <bigjools> thanks siretart
[11:33] <Kuhrscher> carlos: But we have to do this manually, right?
[11:34] <carlos> that's something we will do at some point soon, maybe right before the beta release (to reduce the CD usage)
[11:34] <carlos> I will need to check with Martin Pitt
[11:35] <Kuhrscher> Ok, thanks.
[11:35] <Kuhrscher> carlos: Btw. how long does it usually take until a new template is approved for Rosetta?
[11:35] <carlos> if it was already approved, it's a matter of hours 
[11:36] <carlos> if it's the first time we see it, it depends on us taking a look to the list of templates pending to be approved
[11:36] <carlos> we do that from time to time
[11:36] <Kuhrscher> I'm asking because kdesudo awaits approval for some days now...
[11:36] <Kuhrscher> A I wondered if we just have to wait or if there is any problem...
[11:37] <carlos> no, is just that we didn't manually approve it yet (it's a new one)
[11:37] <Kuhrscher> Ok, so I'll be just patient. Thanks.
[11:40] <ubotu> New bug: #141457 in soyuz "upload rejected because of appearantly missing orig.tar.gz (which is uploaded)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141457
[11:49] <seb128> hi
[11:49] <seb128> can a launchpad product be renamed?
[11:49] <jtv> hi
[11:51] <jtv> I'm pretty sure it can, though I haven't tried
[11:52] <jtv> Is it a product you registered?
[11:52] <mrevell> seb128: If you file a request in Launchpad Answers I think Tom will be able to take a look.
[11:52] <seb128> what is "Launchpad Answers"?
[11:53] <seb128> jtv: no, it's control-center which has been renamed to gnome-control-center upstream and in Ubuntu
[11:53] <jtv> ah, then... what mrevell said
[11:53] <mrevell> seb128: Sorry, I'll get you the URL. The Answer tracker.
[11:54] <seb128> mrevell: I don't want to ask an user question
[11:54] <jtv> "Answers" is one of the apps in Launchpad, just like Bugs or Translations
[11:54] <seb128> right, that used to be called "support tracker" no?
[11:54] <carlos> seb128: that's the ticket system we use for this kind of requests
[11:54] <seb128> that's where we redirect users who file bugs without knowing what they are doing
[11:54] <mrevell> seb128: We use Launchpad Answers to track requests such as that but the general use is for user support.
[11:54] <seb128> hum, k
[11:54] <mrevell> seb128: Our use is, perhaps, atypical.
[11:54] <carlos> seb128: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[11:54] <mrevell> Ah, thanks carlos
[11:55] <carlos> np
[11:55] <seb128> I don't want to "ask a question"
[11:55] <seb128> :p
[11:55] <seb128> k, will use that
[11:55] <mrevell> seb128: If it makes you feel better, you can email help@launchpad.net, but then I'll just file a request in the Answer Tracker :-)
[11:55] <carlos> seb128: 'Pretty please, could you rename control-center to gnome-control-center?'
[11:55] <carlos> seb128: that's a question for me :-P
[11:57] <seb128> carlos: https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/13771
[11:57] <carlos> seb128: thanks ;-)
[11:57] <seb128> carlos, mrevell: thank you guys for pointing me to the right place ;)
[11:58] <mrevell> seb128: I'll put something on the help wiki so other people know what to do. Thanks.
[11:59] <seb128> carlos: how is rosetta handling the GNOME 2.20 massive upload btw? ;)
[11:59] <carlos> seb128: well, we had a day of delay... and we have now three days of delay :-(
[11:59] <carlos> other than that... 
[11:59] <seb128> carlos: do you have an estimation of when the 2.20 translations will be language packs?
[12:00] <carlos> I just planned with Martin a full language pack update for Gutsy's beta
[12:00] <carlos> so either I wait until all files are imported
[12:00] <seb128> right
[12:00] <carlos> or we will generate it later today
[12:00] <seb128> and I would like to get 2.20 translations in this export
[12:01] <seb128> let's move that to #ubuntu-devel
[12:01] <carlos> please, talk with pitti to see whether we have enough time to wait for it
[12:01] <carlos> sure
[12:06] <ubotu> New bug: #141461 in rosetta "Automatic string in translator-credits could not be translate" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141461
[12:13] <pochu> carlos: re: tracker translations... we fixed bug 133555, could you check that the templates are now there, and if yes, accept it? thanks
[12:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 133555 in tracker "Tracker does not include any translations" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/133555 - Assigned to Sebastien Bacher (seb128)
[12:14] <carlos> sure, let me check...
[12:15] <carlos> pochu: I already approved it
[12:15] <carlos> it's just waiting to be imported
[12:15] <carlos> I hope it will be done later today
[12:17] <pochu> carlos: cool, thanks a lot
[12:18] <carlos> np
[01:23] <Etapien> how can I change the email address I get notifications from launchpad? can't find that anywhere
[01:23] <Etapien> meaning.. my launchpad account email address.
[01:24] <pochu> Etapien: launchpad.net/~you/+editmails
[01:25] <Etapien> Thank you.
[01:48] <Kmos> why are 1.1.9 released and we still come to edge ?
[01:49] <kiko> Kmos, you will always come to edge. the redirect is always on -- that way you always enjoy the most recent code.
[01:50] <Kmos> kiko: but when it's released, we don't come back ?
[01:52] <kiko> Kmos, edge is always ahead of tip 
[01:52] <kiko> err
[01:54] <Kmos> kiko: yes.. but I open launchpad.net and it continues to redirect to edge
[01:55] <Kmos> after release, that's disabled right 
[01:55] <Kmos> ?
[01:55] <kiko> no.
[01:55] <kiko> why would it be disabled? work continues on trunk, and edge moves ahead daily.
[01:55] <elmo> bazaar.launchpad.net and codebrowse.launchpad.net are going down for emergency maintenance, ETD is 10 minutes
[01:56] <Kmos> kiko: ok =)
[01:56] <kiko> thanks elmm
[01:56] <kiko> elmo
[02:05] <elmo> bazaar.launchpad.net and codebrowse.launchpad.net are back
[02:13] <pochu> elmo: wow, ten minutes later as estimated :)
[02:58] <Hobbsee> wow, guys!
[02:59] <Hobbsee> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdebase and such looks great!
[03:01] <kiko> sabdfl, ^^^ :)
[03:02] <soren> win 4
[03:02] <soren> gah..
[03:03] <elmo> yeah, that is nice
[03:06] <Hobbsee> kiko: :)
[03:06] <kiko> it was mark's handiwork :)
[03:08] <Hobbsee> kiko: right, then i wont tell sabdfl that there's a guy whining about all the things it lacks, then.
[03:08] <Daviey> Can KDE ever look "great"?
[03:09] <Hobbsee> Daviey: yes.
[03:10] <Kmos> kiko: bug 124298
[03:10] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 124298 in soyuz "Changelog link at (source) to check last modifications" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/124298
[03:10] <ubotu> New bug: #141499 in launchpad "Include top referer along with 404 OOPS items" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141499
[03:11] <Kmos> this one can be closed
[03:11] <Kmos> the new +source was great
[03:12] <kiko> thanks Kmos 
[03:12] <Hobbsee> kiko: i'm told that backports versions look strange in there.
[03:39] <cprov> Hobbsee: hi, do you have an example of "backports are weird in ubuntu/+source" page ?
[03:40] <Hobbsee> cprov: http://rafb.net/p/xha1DF43.html was the full log
[03:41] <cprov> Hobbsee: thanks
[03:45] <ubotu> New bug: #141512 in launchpad "Needing a method to insert URL to the "main" launchpad page for the context" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141512
[03:49] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I'm filing bugs now.
[03:50] <ubotu> New bug: #141513 in launchpad "Publishing History page links to itself and not to main package page" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141513
[03:55] <ubotu> New bug: #141514 in launchpad "New source package page does not show all release pockets" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141514
[04:07] <ScottK> In unrelated news, I'm curious if LP supports (or has plans for) the supporting the Hompage field in debian/control: http://people.debian.org/~terpstra/message/20070920.050504.e67f1303.en.html
[04:09] <kiko> ScottK, hmmm, interesting question.
[04:10] <ScottK> Although it's not policy yet, I've seen that DD's are starting to use the field.
[04:10] <ScottK> FYI.
[04:10] <sabdfl> Hobbsee: i'm happy to get feedback on that page
[04:11] <sabdfl> that first cut was a quick attempt to make the UI vaguely useful, there's plenty of room for improvement and i'd like to get a copy of the whining :-)
[04:13] <ScottK> sabdfl: I'm the whiner.
[04:13] <ScottK> It's in the log that Hobbsee linked to above.
[04:14] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: the log is ^
[04:14] <ScottK> I've also filed bugs.
[04:16] <pochu> ScottK, kiko: that (the homepage thing) has been done in Ubuntu too for some time
[04:17] <slytherin> ScottK: but dpkg will need to be upgraded to 1.14.6, right?
[04:17] <ScottK> pochu: This is (I'm pretty sure) a different one.
[04:17] <ScottK> slytherin: So I understand.  We'll get to that eventually.
[04:18] <ScottK> I thought it worth a mention now so it could be planned for.
[04:18] <pochu> ScottK: oh, not the two-spaces-Homepage: in description?
[04:18] <ScottK> pochu: No.  Any actual field for it in debian/control.
[04:18] <ScottK> Any/an
[04:18] <sabdfl> ScottK: FUBAR would be an exaggeration
[04:19] <ScottK> sabdfl: You're right.  I am prone to exaggeration to make a point.
[04:19] <slytherin> ScottK: I am not a developer but I think it is a good idea.
[04:19] <pochu> ScottK: oh, sorry then
[04:19] <sabdfl> ScottK: the only point that consistently makes is that one is prone to exaggeration ;-)
[04:19] <sabdfl> so, you want to see the per-pocket currently-published version?
[04:19] <ScottK> sabdfl: My initial reaction to page is that it is significantly less useful to me as a MOTU than the old one.
[04:20] <sabdfl> you found the old one, though?
[04:20] <ScottK> sabdfl: It's necessary to understand the state of the archive and what needs to be worked on.
[04:20] <ScottK> Yes.
[04:20] <sabdfl> how would you define "what needs to be worked on"?
[04:20] <ubotu> New bug: #141517 in malone "Version History is often incomplete" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141517
[04:20] <Hobbsee> ScottK: incidently, i found the opposite.
[04:20] <carlos_> danilos: hi, around?
[04:20] <ScottK> Sure.  Opinions will vary.
[04:20] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i supsect hte difference is that you care about the non-development release, whereas i dont.
[04:20] <sabdfl> i'm trying to understand what you are looking for, so i can make sure that info is readily available
[04:21] <sabdfl> *most* folks say they want to see the change history there
[04:21] <sabdfl> but defining the "change history" is tricky, when you look at the distro level
[04:21] <ScottK> First, if a changelog type history is going to be presented, it should be complete and correct.
[04:21] <sabdfl>  - you have changes in different releases, and pockets, interwoven
[04:21] <ScottK> The current instantiation is neither.
[04:21] <sabdfl>  - you also have people revising history (i.e. changing the changelog entries for previous versions in the changelog of later versions)
[04:22] <ScottK> I think that presenting incomplete information is often worse than presenting none.
[04:22] <sabdfl> so, complete and correct would also be totally overwhelming in the usual case
[04:22] <ScottK> People's opinion's will vary on that.
[04:22] <sabdfl> that's of course true
[04:22] <sabdfl> i am happy to evolve that page with tweaks to make it better, but i think most people prefer this as a starting point to the previous version
[04:23] <sabdfl> the detailed publishing history is still there
[04:23] <sabdfl> would you like to see a "what's published NOW" summary at the top of the publishing history page?
[04:23] <sabdfl> i.e.
[04:23] <sabdfl>  edgy-release  4.6.35-0ubuntu5
[04:23] <tgm4883> Would it be possible to get someone to remove a package from my PPA?
[04:24] <sabdfl>  edgy-security 4.6.25-0ubuntu6
[04:24] <sabdfl> tgm4883: definitely, if you can wait a month or so, that someone could be you :-)
[04:24] <ScottK> sabdfl: I think if you could take the old summary and add the new changes stuff under it, it would be much better.
[04:24] <tgm4883> heh, thats whaat I was afraid of
[04:24] <tgm4883> sounds good though if thats my option
[04:25] <ScottK> The new summary at the top with only the most recent version per release is just too much summation.
[04:25] <sabdfl> tgm4883: yes, i think that's best rather than taking DBA time
[04:25] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: i would be of the opinion that you could do a dropdown from the summary of releases or something, starting with the development one at the top
[04:26] <ScottK> sabdfl: Particulary if there is a backports version.  That should be shown separately.
[04:26] <sabdfl> ScottK: the real intent of that is to show linkages to upstream series
[04:26] <tgm4883> ok will do
[04:26] <sabdfl> that is SUPPOSED to show mappings to upstream major version branches
[04:26] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: why, though?  does anyone actually use that?
[04:26] <ScottK> sabdfl: Do you have an example where that's actually filled out and useful?
[04:26] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: i dont think people understand major version branches, so they dont use it.
[04:26] <Hobbsee> i certainly dont.
[04:26] <ScottK> So far I haven't found a package where that had anything?
[04:27] <sabdfl> it's not widely used now, but if we can make it easier to use I think it will help
[04:27] <sabdfl>  - pass translations back
[04:27] <sabdfl>  - pull new translations in directly from upstream VCS
[04:27] <sabdfl>  - map bugs to relevant upstream versions
[04:27] <Hobbsee> ScottK: kdebase does, but the info is wrong.
[04:27] <ScottK> sabdfl: Then I would say it should't be the default U/I until it's actually useful.
[04:27] <Hobbsee> ScottK: and i havent attempted to deal with the great *mess* of upstream bugs, etc.
[04:27] <carlos_> kiko: ping
[04:27] <sabdfl>  - identify packages where upstream has new code and we could update the package
[04:28] <ScottK> As it is, you are hiding the information I use every day as an Ubuntu dev in favor of something that may be useful at some point in the future.
[04:28] <sabdfl> ScottK: hmm.. i'm not hiding it, the old page is (deliberately for this very case) still there
[04:28] <ScottK> sabdfl: Could that be done from watch files?
[04:29] <sabdfl> ScottK: we are hoping it will be done against upstream version control, which is one better
[04:29] <ScottK> sabdfl: It's a link further away than it used to be.
[04:29] <ScottK> sabdfl: I'd say that the one you have is better
[04:29] <ScottK> I think debian/watch is a lot more common.
[04:29] <sabdfl> ScottK: tell me again what you mean by "see what needs to be worked on"
[04:30] <ScottK> I'd suggest use debian/watch where you have no VCS information.
[04:30] <ScottK> sabdfl: It varies, but I do a lot of work with *-backports, *-proposed, *-updates, and *-security in the current releases.
[04:31] <siretart> cprov: hey there!
[04:31] <ScottK> Often it's complex to understand (particularly when one is looking at a security update) which versions need to be addressed.
[04:31] <siretart> cprov: have you seen the problems regarding the live-initramfs upload?
[04:31] <sabdfl> what do you mean by "do work with"? are you for example checking to see which releases need updating when a security issue is identified?
[04:32] <ScottK> I expect that Hobbsee and I will have substantially different perspectives as I spend a lot more time working on the releases.
[04:32] <ScottK> sabdfl: That's one example.  Yes.
[04:32] <sabdfl> by working on the releases, you mean working on things like edgy, feisty?
[04:32] <sabdfl> i.e. adding backports, or proposed, or security?
[04:32] <ScottK> It can get tricky as I've had pending SRU's in proposed that also needed the security fix.
[04:32] <ScottK> Yes
[04:33] <sabdfl> ok
[04:33] <sabdfl> i think what you want is something that shows the every version of a given package published in any pocket
[04:33] <ScottK> Similarly when triaging bugs it can be hard to know exactly what version of a package someone might be using without the full history in front of you.
[04:34] <sabdfl> reading the log, it seems that's what you want
[04:34] <ScottK> sabdfl: Yes.  Which is what I had up until today.
[04:34] <carlos_> kiko: I just sent you an email about the patch you asked me. I really need to go right now
[04:34] <sabdfl> wel, you also had a lot of removed versions to filter through
[04:34] <cprov> siretart: yes, I did, but I'm not sure you understood what is exactly wrong.
[04:34] <ScottK> sabdfl: Yes, but that's trivial to do.
[04:34] <carlos_> kiko: will be back in around 4 hours to handle any review comments and merge that branch
[04:35] <Hobbsee> ScottK: you either have triviality finding the latest versions, as we have now, or you have triviality finding what you want.
[04:35] <sabdfl> ScottK: i could put that on the front page with pleasure, if you promise not to exaggerate when you are giving me constructive feedback in future ;-)
[04:35] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes, but the "latest versions" we have now aren't always the latest.
[04:36] <ScottK> sabdfl: I'll promise to work on that.
[04:36] <sabdfl> okdokey
[04:36] <cprov> siretart: we do have a problem with our sync-source tool (which erroneously consider a PPA orig file as a already published ubuntu file). However, a new upload of the source directly to the primary ubuntu archive (including the orig) should work fine.
[04:36] <Hobbsee> ScottK: they mostly are.  i thnk
[04:36] <sabdfl> i'll try get to it this weekend, and if I do, it will show up on edge.lp.net some time next week
[04:36] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Backports is a big problem in my opinion.  They are not an official Ubuntu release.
[04:37] <Hobbsee> ScottK: so just throw out the backports.  they're full of crack anyway, see !jdong.
[04:37] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I agree there are lots of crackful backports.  I've been working on making them less so.
[04:37] <sabdfl> ScottK: as for the PPA-closing-bugs, that's a bug of course, which the beta program was designed to find
[04:38] <ScottK> sabdfl: The problem is that it was closing live bugs.  
[04:38] <sabdfl> i think backports are very useful indeed
[04:38] <sabdfl> ScottK: yes, that's what happens on a real beta with real data :-)
[04:38] <ScottK> I agree that they are useful (and I am one of the ubuntu-backporters), but they need to be listed separately.
[04:39] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: there are some mighty big beta bugs, though - that should have been picked up long before this point, imo - it's quite public now still.
[04:39] <Hobbsee> (but i'm aware that we cant change this now)
[04:39] <sabdfl> listed separately?
[04:39] <ScottK> sabdfl: As an outsider, that one just seemed so obvious, especially considering there was already an outstanding bug against *-proposed closing bug.
[04:39] <ScottK> sabdfl: In your current U/I if the most recent version is a backports version, that's all that gets listed.
[04:40] <ScottK> Since backports aren't enabled by default (for good reason), that really isn't appropriate IMO.
[04:40] <sabdfl> i didn't realise that -backports was being listed in there too
[04:40] <sabdfl> interesting
[04:40] <ScottK> Here's an example https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyspf
[04:40] <ScottK> Look at Edgy
[04:41] <Fujitsu> Hm, some linkiness might be nice there, too.
[04:43] <ScottK> sabdfl: It is my opinion (and it's an outside users opinion, so it may be completely wrong) that LP is leaning to heavily into getting features out the door and not doing enough really thinking them through first.  It's a balance that I know is hard to get right.
[04:43] <ScottK> Both the -backports issue here and the PPA closing bugs issues are ones that I think additional design and thought could/should have caught.
[04:48] <sabdfl> well, ppa is a huge change, it's expected that it have some bugs, and the beta is designed to catch those before it goes wild
[04:48] <sabdfl> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/soyuz/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=New&field.status%3Alist=Incomplete&field.status%3Alist=Confirmed&field.status%3Alist=Triaged&field.status%3Alist=In+Progress&field.status%3Alist=Fix+Committed&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_contact=&field.bug_commenter=&field.subscriber=&field.omit_dupes.used=&field.omit_dupes=on&field.has_patch.used=&
[04:48] <bigjools> fwiw, that ppa closing bugs bug is fixed now
[04:49] <ScottK> bigjools: That's good to hear.
[04:49] <ScottK> How about *-proposed?
[04:49] <cprov> ScottK: fixed, too
[04:49] <ScottK> Good.
[04:51] <bigjools> it's unfortunate that bugs like that creep in, but us developers are only human and as sabdfl says, the beta phase is designed to catch this sort of thing
[04:51] <Hobbsee> cprov: and the version number bugs?  *g*
[04:53] <cprov> Hobbsee: PPA version consistency depends of sorting auto-overrides properly, as mentioned in the bug report,  it will get fixed during 1.1.10 (or ASAP).
[04:53] <Hobbsee> cprov: yay!  :)
[04:54] <Hobbsee> cprov: FWIW, i think kiko's idea was fairly good - about sending everything to universe by default.
[04:54] <cprov> Hobbsee: I should have said 'we', bigjools is also in this *boat* ;)
[04:54] <ScottK> bigjools: As I said, design effort versus will bugfix it before release is a difficult balance.  I have my opinion on it, but it's not my project.
[04:55] <Hobbsee> cprov: ahhh
[04:57] <Hobbsee> mrevell: that seems to be reproducible, btw (login to edge, and it doesnt show you as logged in the first time)
[04:57] <cprov> Hobbsee: yes, PPAs are very tied to 'universe' component and it should work very well, IMO too.
[04:57] <Hobbsee> second time lucky.
[04:59] <dpm> Could anyone tell me when are the launchpad translations synched with the gnome translations? are there going to be any several syncronisations (i.e. after the 2.20 and 2.20.1 releases)?
[04:59] <dpm> s/any//
[04:59] <pochu> could anybody explain me why bug 134567 is really a bug?
[04:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 134567 in soyuz "having a debian/copyright should not be a requirement" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/134567 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[05:00] <pochu> I mean, why debian/copyright shouldn't be a requirement? If it's going to be downloadable by anyone, it should have the copyright holders in the deb package...
[05:02] <elmo> pochu: sometimes the copyright information is not in debian/copyright in the source package
[05:02] <cprov> pochu: some deb packages generate binary copyrights (this bit is required) dynamically based on a source template.
[05:02] <elmo> pochu: there's already a requirement that it be in /usr/share/doc/$package/copyright for binary  packages
[05:04] <pochu> oh, so basically it has to have a copyright, either from debian/copyright or from another place (e.g. the template) ?
[05:05] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Sorry, gotta read up, was making a cup of tea
[05:05] <Hobbsee> mrevell: you and tea... :)
[05:05] <mrevell> Hobbsee: It powers my working day :)
[05:06] <Hobbsee> mrevell: i pity those of us who dont drink tea then
[05:08] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Every time you log into edge it fails to recognise you the first time?
[05:08] <bigjools> The British Empire was founded on tea.  And look what happened to that.
[05:09] <Hobbsee> mrevell: after iv'e cleared cookies, yes.
[05:09] <Hobbsee> bigjools: yes, you were stupid enough to send your convicts out here.
[05:09] <Hobbsee> bigjools: and just look at who has the better weather!
[05:09] <bigjools> Hobbsee: yeah we screwed that one up, should left the convicts in London and shipped ourselves out there :)
[05:10] <ScottK> The convicts seem to have done rather well on multiple continents.
[05:10] <bigjools> Hobbsee: where do you live?
[05:10] <Hobbsee> bigjools: as in, city or country?
[05:10] <bigjools> city
[05:10] <Hobbsee> ah.  sydney.
[05:11] <Hobbsee> sydney is nice, modulo traffic, and modulo APEC.
[05:11] <bigjools> but, it's what, 1am there?  Don't you ever sleep? :)
[05:11] <Hobbsee> er, and modulo housing prices.
[05:11] <Hobbsee> bigjools: i do.  my sleep cycle is still shot.
[05:11] <Hobbsee> bigjools: i blame ubuntu.
[05:11] <Hobbsee> and work.
[05:11] <bigjools> same thing for me :)
[05:15] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Any chance you could file a bug?
[05:15] <Hobbsee> mrevell: about the edge logins?
[05:16] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Yeah, I could do it if you like but it's gonna be more, erm, authentic if you do it.
[05:16] <Hobbsee> mrevell: authentic how?
[05:16] <ScottK> As in from an actual user, I'd expect.
[05:17] <mrevell> Hobbsee: I haven't been able to replicate the problem, so if I report it I'm just going to ask you, "What happened?" and then use your words :)
[05:17] <Hobbsee> mrevell: ah right
[05:17] <mrevell> Hobbsee: what browser are you using?
[05:17] <Hobbsee> mrevell: so even if you clear your cookies/browsing history, you dont get it?
[05:17] <Hobbsee> mrevell: firefox!
[05:17] <Hobbsee> must...have....firefox.....
[05:19] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Just tried again in Epiphany but still can't reproduce.
[05:19] <Hobbsee> mrevell: odd.
[05:20] <Hobbsee> mrevell: it may be that launchpad just hates me.  it wouldnt be the first time.
[05:20] <ubotu> New bug: #141527 in launchpad-bazaar "branch-puller mirror scripts fails with an InvalidURIError" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141527
[05:20] <sabdfl> kiko: https://edge.launchpad.net/~launchpad/+mugshots
[05:20] <ScottK> sabdfl: Thanks for the discussion.  
[05:20] <ScottK> See you all later.
[05:20] <Hobbsee> oh twitch, the mugshots.
[05:22] <Hobbsee> although i like the way those are put.
[05:31] <bigjools> oy, I really didn't need to see kiko's underarm hair
[05:35] <ubotu> New bug: #141532 in launchpad "Membership approval page doesn't handle plurals correctly" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141532
[06:00] <Hobbsee> bigjools: sleep is overrated, anyway.
[06:02] <bigjools> Hobbsee: 2am and counting
[06:02] <Hobbsee> yup
[06:03] <bigjools> I am going on a stag party tomorrow night, I imagine we'll just be starting at 2am
[06:03] <Hobbsee> haha
[06:06] <bigjools> starting _what_ though.... :)
[06:08] <Hobbsee> bigjools: goodness only knows...
[06:08] <bigjools> let's just say it *won't* be an Ubuntu installation party
[06:09] <Hobbsee> well, duh.
[06:09] <LaserJock> wha? why not? :-)
[06:10] <LaserJock> it can be a case study in drunken computing
[06:10] <LaserJock> the UI insights could be very interesting
[06:10] <ubotu> New bug: #141540 in soyuz "New source page doesn't show in which component a package is" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141540
[06:13] <bersace> Hi
[06:14] <bersace> seems that ppa does not like timezone
[06:14] <bersace> my tarballs are in the future
[06:14] <bersace> :/
[06:14] <Hobbsee> or you're stuck in the past...
[06:15] <bersace> i'm in France
[06:16] <stdin> yeah, the amd64 build?
[06:16] <bersace> stdin: yes
[06:17] <bersace> i just have to wait ?
[06:17] <bersace> i'm wonder also
[06:17] <bersace> if i have a package depending on another package in my ppa
[06:18] <stdin> you can either wait, or use the -t option of touch and re-upload a new version
[06:18] <bersace> does ppa handle installation from current ppa
[06:18] <bersace> i /+retry the build
[06:18] <bersace> it's queued
[06:18] <stdin> yeah, ppa adds your ppas packages to it's sources 
[06:22] <bersace> stdin: nice :)
[06:37] <siretart> cprov: I'm not sure you understand what I did: I did an upload WITH the orig file
[06:37] <siretart> cprov: however, soyuz rejects the upload stateing there wasn't an orig.tar.gz.
[06:39] <cprov> siretart: the rejection message you forward to bigjools did not contain the orig.
[06:39] <bigjools> right
[06:39] <bigjools> dsc was missing the entry in Files
[06:39] <siretart> cprov: but my upload definitly contained an orig.tar.gz. 
[06:39] <siretart> uh?
[06:40] <siretart> wait. I paste my files
[06:40] <bigjools> add the orig.tar.gz to the Files section in your .dsc file
[06:40] <cprov> bigjools: I think the orig was mentioned in dsc but not in the changesfile, in that case.
[06:41] <bigjools> yeah maybe, I get confused easy at my age :)
[06:41] <siretart> cprov: please see http://paste.debian.net/37683 http://paste.debian.net/37684 and http://paste.debian.net/37685
[06:42] <siretart> as you can clearly see, the orig.tar.gz is definitly in the changesfile, and has been been uploaded, which the dput log confirms
[06:43] <bigjools> siretart: in the rejection email you forwarded to me, the changes file is missing the orig.tar.gz
[06:43] <siretart> bigjools: I forwarded you what soyuz sent me
[06:43] <bigjools> ok
[06:43] <bigjools> cprov: ^^^
[06:44] <siretart> I already said that soyuz is lying here ;)
[06:44] <cprov> siretart: re-upload the source again, we will see the results in 5 minutes.
[06:44] <siretart> cprov: to production or dogfood?
[06:45] <Hobbsee> night all
[06:45] <cprov> siretart: production, if you are right it will be rejected, otherwise it's fine to get it into gutsy (isn't it what you want ?)
[06:45] <siretart> gn8 Hobbsee !
[06:46] <cprov> Hobbsee: night
[06:46] <siretart> uploaded
[06:46] <siretart> lets see what happens
[06:46] <cprov> siretart: thanks
[06:50] <Ng> I saw some discussion earlier about changelogs closing bugs - can PPA packages do that? I have a project I'm using PPA to build packages for and it'd save me a few clicks :)
[06:51] <siretart> cprov: rejected again. same result
[06:51] <siretart> Ng: currently they can, however this is a severe bug for ubuntu developers
[06:52] <bigjools> siretart, Ng: this issue is now fixed
[06:52] <Ng> siretart: yeah, I rather got the impression it wasn't going to be allowed
[06:52] <cprov> siretart: it definitely not the same result you forwarded before:
[06:52] <Ng> bigjools: so I can't close any bugs with PPA?
[06:52] <bigjools> Ng: nope
[06:52] <cprov> 16:50:05 DEBUG   Rejected:                                                                                                                                                                              
[06:52] <cprov> 16:50:05 DEBUG   Signing key 709F54E4ECF3195623326AE3F82E5CC04B2B2B9E not registered in launchpad.                                                                                                      
[06:52] <cprov> 16:50:05 DEBUG   Sourceful upload without a .dsc                                                                                                                                                        
[06:52] <cprov> 16:50:05 DEBUG   Unable to find the dsc file in the sourceful upload?                                                                                                                                   
[06:52] <siretart> right. now I'm getting the same reject message as from dogfood
[06:52] <Ng> bigjools: that's a shame, but entirely understandable :)
[06:53] <siretart> cprov: right. because the dsc file is signed by someone else
[06:53] <bigjools> Ng: yeah, it caused a bit of a rumpus :)
[06:53] <siretart> cprov: I'm approving a source package from debian. so the package itself is signed-off by daniel baumann, and I approve it for ubuntu by signing the changes file representing the upload to ubuntu
[06:54] <siretart> cprov: do you want me to resign the dsc and reupload to production?
[06:55] <cprov> siretart:  launchpad doesn't know daniel's key, you have to re-sign the dsc. Yes, please
[06:55] <siretart> ok, reuploaded
[06:55] <siretart> did you update soyuz today?
[06:56] <Ng> bigjools: do you happen to know if there are any plans for allowing non-distribution projects to do that kind of thing in the future?
[06:56] <bigjools> Ng: not that I know of
[06:56] <Ng> mmkay, ta
[06:56] <bigjools> Ng: feel free to propose it though, it sounds useful
[06:57] <bigjools> siretart: a new version of Launchpad was rolled out this morning
[06:57] <Ng> bigjools: I may well do :)
[06:58] <siretart> bigjools: so may be that's why I get different results now
[06:59] <bigjools> siretart: what is happening now?
[06:59] <bigjools> is it working?
[06:59] <siretart> bigjools: I've uploaded a resigned package and I'm waiting for the answer. didn't receive it yet
[07:00] <bigjools> it's probably in the incoming queue now then and wasn't rejected
[07:01] <bigjools> the email that you sent me includes the changes file that you sent, it's not generated from anything, so I guess you must have got it wrong in the first instance
[07:01] <siretart> HA!
[07:01] <siretart> now I've got a mail that it's waiting for approval
[07:01] <siretart> so things work again right now
[07:03] <cprov> siretart: no ... they have always worked as expected  for this matter. I dunno what you have done wrong before ;)
[07:30] <ScottK> When I was filing Bug 141546, I was unable to figure a way to link to the upstream bug tracker.  Since CPAN Is not exactly an obscure source of code, I'm figuring I didn't get it right.  Could someone please help me figure out how to link to the CPAN RT in this bug?
[07:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141546 in libnet-dns-perl "make_query_packet() IP address detection broken" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141546
[07:32] <hexmode> ScottK: the link works for me
[07:32] <ScottK> The link in the bug description works.
[07:32] <ScottK> I'm talking about adding it as an upstream bug that will be status tracked.
[07:32] <hexmode> ah
[07:33] <ScottK> IIRC, before I could click on also affect project and add the URL.  I don't seem to be able to do that anymore.
[07:33] <hexmode> well... Canonical  Python more than Perl... so it may not be a high priority ;)
[07:33] <hexmode> but seriously... I dunno
[07:35] <ScottK> I saw " * When adding a bug watch, if Launchpad doesn't recognise the  external bug tracker it will ask if you want to register the new  tracker at the same time. (Bug 4592)" in the LP 1.1.9 release notes and wonder if what I am experiencing is by design or a bug?
[07:35] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 4592 in malone "Easier bugtracker registration workflow." [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4592 - Assigned to Guilherme Salgado (salgado)
[07:40] <hexmode> ScottK: I've seen the upstream link done (Bug 125650).  On that bug, clicking "Also affects project" lists the gnome bug tracker
[07:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 125650 in deskbar-applet "deskbar-applet crashed: 'module' object has no attribute 'ThumbnailFactory'" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125650
[07:40] <ScottK> It seems to me it used to be possible to just feed it a url if you had one, but no longer.
[07:40] <hexmode> clicking that on your bug lets you add an affected project
[07:41] <ScottK> Right, but in this case CPAN seems not to exist.
[07:41] <hexmode> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/libnet-dns-perl/+edit-packaging
[07:42] <hexmode> that seems to be where to look, but I'm unsure of what to do
[07:42] <ScottK> Well it looks like CPAN doesn't exist and so there's nothing I can do.
[07:42] <ScottK> I guess I'll go look for bugs.
[07:45] <ScottK> Well that's my 4th LP bug written today....
[07:45] <ScottK> hexmode: Thanks for helping.
[07:49] <hexmode> np... wish I knew more
[07:49] <hexmode> what bug did you file?
[07:50] <ubotu> New bug: #141563 in launchpad "CPAN not available as a Package upstream link" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141563
[07:58] <ScottK> hexmode: ^^^ That one.
[08:26] <marseillai> hi
[08:27] <marseillai> if someone have some time i don't understand something. I've got a package wich build properly in my gutsy pbuilder but ppa tell me a dependencie is missing : libgtkglext1-dev but it's in universe. so i don't understand.
[08:31] <marseillai> oki i found the problem
[08:48] <bdmurray> How does that "with response" filter work?
[08:50] <bdmurray> Somehow bug 141355 showed up in a "Incomplete (with response)" filter and I am not sure why.
[08:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141355 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Atheros AR511 not connecting to networks" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141355
[08:51] <synic> I'm getting this 500 error when trying to browse bzr via the web again, if anyone wants to reset it: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~exaile-devel/exaile/main/revision/sasongko%40gmail.com-20070921155855-9veli6b799q1apf2
[08:52] <kiko> synic, hmmm. mwh is away this week, but that wasn't supposed to happen
[08:54] <synic> d'oh
[08:55] <kiko> synic, that pretty much sucks. is it just that revision?
[08:55] <synic> hrmm, looks like it
[09:13] <bersace> Hi all
[09:13] <bersace> i have problem of MD5 checksum
[09:13] <bersace> while uploading to ppa
[09:13] <bersace> i have checked localy just before dput
[09:14] <bersace> and i can't get it uploaded
[09:14] <bersace> launchpad refuses
[09:14] <bersace> even after few retries
[09:14] <bersace> i reach to get one upload sucessful
[09:14] <bersace> no more :/
[09:17] <stdin> bersace: are you making the .changes file with "debuild" ?
[09:17] <bersace> yes
[09:17] <bersace> debuild -S -sa
[09:19] <bersace> I'm wondering if this is due to the previous upload
[09:19] <kiko> bersace, if you can put your upload in a paste it'd be nice.
[09:20] <bersace> kiko: http://bersac.hd.free.fr/~bersace/tmp should contains what you asked
[09:29] <kiko> bersace, I wanted to see your rejection message actually
[09:29] <kiko> merci 
[09:30] <bersace> kiko: voil : http://bersac.hd.free.fr/~bersace/tmp/lp-rejected.msg
[09:31] <kiko> ah oui
[09:32] <kiko> bersace, so that message tells you that a) you have already uploaded an orig with this filename before and b) it doesn't match the file you are uploading now.
[09:33] <bersace> kiko, ok, but i use dput -f, i should override the existing file, isn't it ?
[09:33] <bersace> it should override 
[09:33] <kiko> nope
[09:33] <kiko> once published it's there forever
[09:33] <kiko> you will need to increment the version
[09:33] <kiko> and wait for it to be superseded
[09:34] <bersace> ok
[09:34] <bersace> :/
[09:34] <kiko> c'est pas un probleme grave
[09:36] <bersace> bon, j'ai retlcharg l'archive orig publi depuis ppa et j'ai renvoy  partir de celle l
[09:36] <bersace> gegl  la manie de modifier les fichiers distribu (doc regnr, etc.)
[09:36] <bersace> :/
[09:36] <kiko> c'est horrible
[09:36] <bersace> rsultat, pas de make distcheck
[09:36] <bersace> et puis c'est la poisse  empaqueter
[09:38] <bersace> sinon, je doit attendre la prochaine rvision de gegl pour faire une mj des sources 
[09:52] <bersace> kiko: c'est tout les quart d'heures qu'incoming est relev ?
[09:53] <kiko> bersace, a chaque 5 minutes je crois
[09:54] <kiko> cprov, process-upload runs pretty frequently doesn't it?
[09:54] <cprov> kiko: yes, */5 
[09:54] <bersace> ok
[09:56] <bersace> j'ai upload y'a 20', aucune nouvelle depuis :/
[09:59] <LaserJock> is anybody here familiar at all with the gnome projects on LP?
[10:00] <LaserJock> I'm wanting to have a vcs import of goffice
[10:00] <LaserJock> as I can't seem to find it already
[10:00] <kiko> I am somewhat familiar
[10:01] <kiko> LaserJock, it's not registered.
[10:01] <LaserJock> so I think I'm supposed to create a project for goffice
[10:01] <kiko> yep
[10:01] <kiko> launchpad.net/projects/+new
[10:01] <LaserJock> which I don't like doing, but oh well
[10:01] <LaserJock> now, I saw that it seems that there is a gnome project-group
[10:02] <LaserJock> do I have to do anything special to put goffice in the project-group?
[10:02] <LaserJock> ah, I see a "Part of:" in the registration
[10:03] <LaserJock> and let me once again say that "Name, Display Name, Title, Summary, Description" are all kind vague ;-)
[10:04] <kiko> LaserJock, we're fixing that for .11 I think
[10:08] <kiko> LaserJock, where is it!
[10:08] <LaserJock> where is what?
[10:08] <kiko> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/goffice/+edit-packaging
[10:08] <kiko> the product
[10:08] <LaserJock> ah, I just finished it
[10:08] <LaserJock> it's /goffice
[10:09] <kiko> yes!!!
[10:09] <kiko> one more product!
[10:09] <LaserJock> ok, *now* I can try to get a vcs import
[10:09] <kiko> LaserJock, you make it sound so hard. you rocket scientist you.
[10:10] <LaserJock> too many meetings
[10:10] <LaserJock> my brain is turned to mush
[10:10] <LaserJock> Quantum Mechanincs I get ... Launchpad not so much ;-)
[10:14] <LaserJock> hmm, I see a bit of a typo/confusion in the VCS Import instructions
[10:16] <kiko> LaserJock, that needs to be fixed too.
[10:17] <LaserJock> it says "set the source details" and I see links for "Change details" which I mistakenly went to first and "Edit Source" the right one
[10:18] <kiko> Edit source, yeah.
[10:19] <LaserJock> I had a 50/50 chance of getting it right
[10:19] <LaserJock> and since I saw details first I lost :(
[10:20] <LaserJock> oh geeze
[10:21] <LaserJock> are we gonna get spammed by the janitor? :-)
[10:22] <LaserJock> kiko: bug janitor stuff doesn't show up in +activity
[10:23] <kiko> LaserJock, :-(
[10:23] <LaserJock> and it's closing my bugs?!?!
[10:23] <LaserJock> ah well, less work for me ;-)
[10:24] <kiko> LaserJock, exactly :)
[10:25] <LaserJock> well, I did have them open for a reason
[10:25] <kiko> LaserJock, in Incomplete status for more than 2 months?
[10:26] <LaserJock> yeah
[10:26] <LaserJock> a release takes 6 months
[10:26] <LaserJock> you never know
[10:26] <kiko> la la la
[10:26] <LaserJock> there are bugs for Edgy that I plan on fixing in Hardy
[10:26] <LaserJock> it's the way it goes sometimes
[10:26] <kiko> you can confirm them, though
[10:27] <LaserJock> yeah, but now you're making me work to avoid the janitor :-)
[10:27] <kiko> I'm trying to get you to conform! :)
[10:27] <LaserJock> of course
[10:31] <LaserJock> kiko: hehe, gcompris went from ~17 bugs to 5 via the janitor
[10:36] <bdmurray> kiko: The janitor closes bugs that are a duplicate?
[10:36] <bdmurray> see bug 80502 for an example
[10:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 80502 in linux-source-2.6.20 "soft lockup detected on CPU#0! when booting from feisty-desktop-i386 (dup-of: 63418)" [High,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/80502
[10:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 63418 in linux-source-2.6.17 "CPU soft lockup during boot if ipw3945 kill switch is on" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/63418 - Assigned to Ben Collins (ben-collins)
[10:36] <kiko> bdmurray, sounds like a bug :)
[10:37] <bdmurray> kiko: Should that be filed against malone?
[10:39] <kiko> bdmurray, yes, it should.
[10:39] <kiko> sinzui:
[10:39] <sinzui> yes
 kiko: The janitor closes bugs that are a duplicate?
 see bug 80502 for an example
[10:40] <kiko> sinzui, bdmurray: does it really make sense to invalidate duplicates? for one it generates confusing bugmail. it also violates the "dupes are almost invisible" rule.
[10:40] <sinzui> kiko: That is my oversight. We should not be invalidating dups.
[10:41] <bdmurray> I submitted bug 141597 about it
[10:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141597 in malone "bug janitor expires duplicate bug reports" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141597
[10:43] <sinzui> bdmurray: Thanks. I'll take that issue.
[10:46] <bdmurray> Should we just leave those duplicates as Invalid?
[10:46] <kiko> bdmurray, yeah, it's fine.
[10:47] <bdmurray> Yeah, I don't think it really hurts per se
[10:50] <sinzui> bdmurray: Their status was Incomplete to qualify for expiration--the real bug has a different status.
[10:52] <bdmurray> sinzui: I'm not sure I understand
[10:53] <sinzui> bdmurray: Sorry. I am being obtuse. The duplicate doesn't have the same status as the true bug, they are allowed to be different.
[11:17] <sistpoty> hi folks
[11:18] <bdmurray> Why did bug 76177 expire?
[11:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 76177 in hal "allows mounting of EVMS partitions" [Unknown,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76177
[11:18] <gnomefreak> open for more than 60 days without activity is what i got from the bunch of emails
[11:18] <bdmurray> It has an upstream task and I thought that would block expiration
[11:18] <radix> bdmurray: The most recent comment gives a reason
[11:18] <radix> oh
[11:19] <sistpoty> hm... on the code.lp sites, there used to be a personalized checkout url, which isn't personalized any more...
[11:19] <gnomefreak> bdmurray: good point
[11:19] <gnomefreak> it shouldnt
[11:19] <sistpoty> used to be very convenient for copy'n'paste, should I file a bug?
[11:19] <radix> hmm, so it expires it per task.
[11:20] <gnomefreak> upstream task is kind of useless without ubuntu task
[11:20] <okaratas> hello
[11:21] <kiko> bdmurray, gnomefreak, radix: I'll file a bug, that's undesireable.
[11:21] <gnomefreak> ty kiko 
[11:21] <bdmurray> kiko: Do I understand how it is supposed to work though?  Not expire if upstream exists?
[11:22] <sinzui> bdmurray: gnomefreak: upstream must be blocked. I'm looking into it
[11:22] <gnomefreak> sinzui: if it has upstream task open ubuntu task needs to stay open 
[11:23] <gnomefreak> LP doesnt control upstream tasks so its not that its blocked LP has no control over status
[11:23] <sinzui> bdmurray: gnomefreak: I see.
[11:25] <sinzui> gnomefreak: I think we need to revise the rule and except that we wont be clean up very well...You and I can see 'hal' in the title of the affected code, but they are not related. I believe we should not be expiring any bug that any part of them affect upstream.
[11:26] <kiko> sinzui, not if upstream has a valid status at least.
[11:26] <bdmurray> The two tasks are not related?
[11:27] <kiko> it's tricky though
[11:27] <kiko> why is the bug marked incomplete?
[11:27] <gnomefreak> kiko: i would say anything with upstream status unless closed should stay
[11:28] <gnomefreak> upstream sometimes doesnt get to them right away or with in months (atleast mozilla)
[11:33] <bdmurray> It looks like Martin wanted more information and while expiring it has drawn our attention to it again I'm not sure that is really ideal.
[11:34] <sinzui> I've drawn these notes so far: duplicates are exempt, bugs with any valid upstream bugtasks are exempt, Use comment activity as the date indicator
[11:35] <bdmurray> On another note the HAL task in launchpad shows Confirmed while upstream is New
[11:36] <bdmurray> sinzui: that sounds right
[11:37] <gnomefreak> bdmurray: i guess its not just mozilla upstream than 
[11:37] <sinzui> bdmurray: Not really. I'm looking for rules that would qualify freedesktop-bug New as Confirmed.
[11:38] <bdmurray> sinzui: I meant the notes so far - sorry about that.
[11:39] <RainCT> hi
[11:39] <RainCT> why do duplicated bugs automatically expire? :P
[11:39] <gnomefreak> RainCT: its a bug
[11:39] <gnomefreak> RainCT: we have been talking about it
[11:39] <RainCT> ah ok
[11:42] <kiko> sinzui, the valid upstream bugtasks issue is interesting, because it is somewhat unilateral.
[11:42] <sinzui> kiko: yeah. I'm investigating that now. We have different rules for translating status too.
[11:43] <kiko> sinzui, not bugwatches -- bugtasks. :)
[11:47] <ubotu> New bug: #141591 in soyuz "PPA package counters and size estimation erroneously consider  REMOVED packages" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141591
[11:48] <sinzui> kiko: we use bugwatches to translate upstream status. I'm asking myself why bug 76177 is confirmed upstream when I can see that it is new upstream.
[11:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 76177 in hal "allows mounting of EVMS partitions" [Unknown,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76177
[11:50] <kiko> sinzui, because, confusingly, bugzilla uses UNCONFIRMED and NEW where we use New and Confirmed.
[11:50] <kiko> sinzui, I was against the renaming! nobody listened!
[11:51] <sinzui> kiko: I will remember that. I was looking through code to look that distraction up
[11:55] <radix> whoah! a bug on one of my projects expired. That's so exciting.
[11:58] <kiko> radix, so did 5 of mine!
[11:59] <seb128> kiko: around?
[11:59] <gnomefreak> seb128: they are working on the bug cleaner thing atm i think
[11:59] <gnomefreak> still even
[12:00] <seb128> "bug cleaner"?
[12:00] <kiko> seb128, yeah, how's it going
[12:00] <seb128> kiko: just got like on hundred mails from "Launchpad Janitor" which closed valid bugs because nobody replied to those
[12:00] <gnomefreak> that would be the one
[12:00] <kiko> seb128, tis life on the edge. :)
[12:00] <seb128> I'm wondering what's going on
[12:00] <seb128> kiko: "on the edge"?
[12:01] <seb128> kiko: you mean they are not been closed in production?
[12:01] <gnomefreak> new LP name i thought was edge.lp.whatever
[12:01] <gnomefreak> or is that just testing team?
[12:01] <seb128> gnomefreak: I know what edge is
[12:02] <kiko> I was just joking seb128 
[12:02] <kiko> it's because we just rolled out.
[12:02] <gnomefreak> my point was i didnt know if it was new final or testing team only
[12:02] <seb128> kiko: how come that you did roll such change without any notice to bugsquad nor distro team before?
[12:02] <kiko> seb128, there was notice, but you didn't notice. :)
[12:03] <seb128> where?
[12:03] <kiko> to launchpad-users and all the other channels where we pre-announce coming features.
[12:03] <kiko> seb128, there was actually a thread on launchpad-users and ubuntu-devel I believe
[12:03] <seb128> launchpad-users is that a joke?
[12:03] <seb128> do you expect the distro team to read launchpad-users?
[12:03] <kiko> yes I do
[12:03] <seb128> k, so sorry to disapoint you
[12:04] <seb128> but I don't think many people read user list
[12:04] <seb128> we don't manage to read ubuntu-users
[12:04] <kiko> seb128, it's okay, I will still be your friend. :)
[12:04] <kiko> as for the expiration
[12:04] <kiko> it'll run this once and then we'll see how it went. 
[12:04] <seb128> well, looks like you just create lot of extra work for me by closing hundred of bugs I will have to check manually and reopen
[12:04] <kiko> sinzui and I are collecting notes on it
[12:05] <seb128> and beta is next week
[12:05] <seb128> that's really a not nice screwing from you
[12:05] <kiko> seb128, that's unfortunate. sinzui and I will pay you beers in boston
[12:05] <seb128> and I'm quite disapointed
[12:05] <sinzui> seb128: I wrote the bug-expiration process that has run amok though your bug. How can I help fix this? We have been discussing the criteria that exempt bugs from expiration
[12:05] <seb128> where did you write about that?
[12:05] <kiko> heh
[12:05] <seb128> kiko: undo it?
[12:06] <seb128> or I'll have to spend the gutsy beta week to undo it
[12:06] <seb128> and that will impact on gutsy
[12:06] <kiko> seb128, just leave the bugs as is
[12:06] <seb128> no
[12:06] <kiko> seb128, they were expired because nothing happened for 60 days
[12:06] <seb128> yes, because I'm overworked
[12:06] <kiko> (well, mostly)
[12:06] <seb128> that's nothing the users should be blamed for
[12:06] <kiko> seb128, trust me. the will reopen the bugs if they are still relevant.
[12:06] <seb128> who will?
[12:06] <kiko> the reporter.
[12:07] <sinzui> seb128: To the 60 days and not assigned or bugwatch rules I have three new rules to add: 1. Duplicates are exempt. 2. Bugs with any valid upstream bugtasks are exempt. 3. Use comment activity as the date indicator.
[12:07] <seb128> no they wont
[12:07] <seb128> they will scream about how ubuntu treat users
[12:07] <seb128> and I'll agree with them
[12:07] <seb128> if they send a bug, we don't reply and we close who is to blame?
[12:07] <bdmurray> seb128: aren't a fair bit of bugs assigned to the desktop team?
[12:07] <seb128> the ubuntu team for sure
[12:07] <RainCT> kiko: what's about adding a "If you think this bug was closed by mistake, or you are now able to provide more information, please feel free to reopen it." ?
[12:07] <RainCT> ..to the message that it leaves when closing the bugs
[12:08] <bdmurray> I thought assigned bugs were not supposed to expire.
[12:08] <seb128> sinzui: bugs which have not got reply from the Ubuntu team should never be closed
[12:08] <seb128> we should not close bugs because we suck at replying
[12:08] <kiko> RainCT, replying to the message should also reopen the bug, which is indeed a problem.
[12:09] <seb128> I would like to know where the mails about that has been sent
[12:09] <seb128> I don't think it's acceptable to do that without proper notice to the distro team which is the mean user of the bug tracker
[12:10] <RainCT> seb128: we should not close bugs because we suck at replying if a bug is incomplete isn't it in most cases because the reported needs to provide more information?
[12:11] <sinzui> seb128: Am I right in understanding that bugs are being marked as Incomplete, and in another session request additional information is requested?
[12:12] <sinzui> bdmurray: you are right, assigned bug are not supposed to be expired. do you have an example of such a one?
[12:13] <bdmurray> sinzui: no
[12:13] <sinzui> Oh goody.
[12:13] <bdmurray> I don't think bug 77647 should have been closed either as it has an upstream task too
[12:13] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 77647 in linux-source-2.6.17 "Lexicon Omega USB audio card not working in EDGY EFT" [Wishlist,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/77647
[12:14] <bdmurray> Well, it has a task but not a watch so I guess that makes sense.
[12:15] <RainCT> kiko: uh.. shouldn't this be stopped before it invalidates half of the duplicated bugs? :P
[12:16] <sinzui> bdmurray: I have that point: if aspect of the bug is valid upstream, no area that the bug affects should be expired.
[12:16] <seb128> sinzui: I would like to know where that has been discussed
[12:17] <seb128> sinzui: there is lot of bugs with a reply from the submitter which have not been replied because nobody from the distro team read the new comment, those should not be closed
[12:17] <RainCT> seb128: launchpad-users I think. (or at least there was some discussion about closing or not closing bugs)
[12:17] <seb128> s/replied/reopened
[12:17] <sinzui> seb128: https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/91925
[12:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 91925 in malone "Automatically expire old unassigned Incomplete bug reports" [High,Fix released]   - Assigned to Curtis Hovey (sinzui-is)
[12:17] <seb128> RainCT: I don't think that's a good media to have a discussion with the distro
[12:18] <seb128> sinzui: do you expect everybody to read every launchpad bugs to know about changes?
[12:19] <RainCT> seb128: I can't say anything about that, I'm just a motu contributor ;)
[12:20] <sinzui> seb128: certainly not. People who thought this was an issue found the bug and participated in the discussion. And the discussion did pick up when I set it's status to in progress,
[12:20] <seb128> I don't think you are being realistic there
[12:20] <seb128> how people will "found the bug" if they don't know the action is going on?
[12:20] <seb128> that's a non-sense
[12:21] <seb128> do you expect people to read every bug title to know what they might be interested in?
[12:21] <kiko> seb128, this isn't really the best way to voice your upset. 
[12:21] <sinzui> I'm not saying that to be flippant.
[12:21] <mthaddon> Launchpad is going down in 15 mins for a code update. Estimated downtime is approx 1 hour
[12:21] <seb128> kiko: what is the best way?
[12:21] <kiko> seb128, write to launchpad-users, or talk to mdz.
[12:22] <seb128> I'll talk to mdz next week
[12:22] <kiko> very well
[12:22] <seb128> you just gave a good slap in the face of Ubuntu users thanks
[12:22] <seb128> I can't even tell them the topic has been raised on a distro list
[12:22] <seb128> everything happened on the launchpad side apparently
[12:23] <sinzui> seb128: What I mean is that I changed what I was doing when I got input. We all struggle to be informed, and we all make choices about were to focus our attention. I did not want to upset anyone with this feature. And I did not want to make more work for anyone.
[12:24] <ubotu> New bug: #58024 in rosetta "Move Norwegian locale to "nb" instead of "no"" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/58024
[12:24] <seb128> sinzui: I think such changes should be discussed with the distro team before being rolled
[12:24] <jbailey> Is this a good place to comment that the auto-expire magic is broken?
[12:24] <jbailey> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cryptsetup/+bug/90914
[12:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 90914 in cryptsetup "initramfs cryptroot usplash support" [Undecided,Invalid]  
[12:24] <Laibsch> jbailey: ;-)
[12:24] <kiko> jbailey, yeah, there are some corner cases we missed
[12:25] <ubotu> New bug: #56538 in soyuz "soyuz status messages should not use the submitters email address" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/56538
[12:25] <kiko> jbailey, sinzui's collecting notes 
[12:25] <Laibsch> Came  here for the same reason ;-)
[12:25] <ubotu> New bug: #57503 in malone "Request: Assign bug to branch" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/57503
[12:25] <seb128> jbailey: I was just discussing it
[12:25] <Laibsch> 60 days is a tad short isn't it?
[12:25] <sinzui> seb128: I'll make an effort to do that. I think I can do better by coordinating my changes with mrevell and Rinchen.
[12:25] <seb128> but looks like it you don't read launchpad-users you are faulty
[12:25] <jbailey> Laibsch: Maybe, but in this case it closed a bug after 5 =)
[12:26] <Laibsch> Oh shit!
[12:26] <kiko> jbailey, it should have used date_last_commented. 
[12:26] <seb128> kiko: "corner cases" ... like every bugs where an user replied but the maintainer didn't reopen?
[12:26] <Laibsch> What is the point in closing bugs that have already been marked as dupes?
[12:26] <kiko> seb128, yes, corner cases like those. are you trying to get banned from this channel? :)
[12:26] <Laibsch> And instead of 60 it should be at least 180
[12:26] <kiko> Laibsch, another bug.
[12:26] <sinzui> Laibsch: The note is taken.
[12:26] <seb128> kiko: feel free to ban me if you think that's the way to deal with complains
[12:26] <jbailey> kiko: I don't think I kept my ubuntu freenode ops, or I'd offer.
[12:27] <Laibsch> Unless you can require all devs to act promptly on all bugs.
[12:27] <jbailey> seb128's just a slack-jawed hippy anyway =)
[12:27] <ubotu> New bug: #55832 in malone "Should have "reported by me" as well as "assigned to me" (dup-of: 50805)" [Low,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/55832
[12:27] <kiko> seb128, I've heard your complaints, they are valid, now stop harassing us.
[12:27] <kiko> i.e. yes, you are right, some bugs were expired and shouldn't have been.
[12:27] <seb128> kiko: nobody replied to it out of "you should read launchpad-users and launchpad bugs" which I don't think it's an appropriate reply
[12:27] <jbailey> Will some maintenance pass catch all of those corner cases, or should I look through and reopen those ones?
[12:28] <kiko> jbailey, we will probably do a maintenence run early next week.
[12:28] <sinzui> Laibsch: The date is configurable. 60 was the consensus for bug 91925. We can extend the period if that is what the community wants.
[12:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 91925 in malone "Automatically expire old unassigned Incomplete bug reports" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/91925 - Assigned to Curtis Hovey (sinzui-is)
[12:28] <jbailey> kiko: Fabulous, thanks!
[12:28] <sinzui> Laibsch: I means days, not date.
[12:29] <Laibsch> oh, this is only for "Needsinfo" bugs?
[12:29] <jbailey> sinzui: Interesting thought for that.  I wonder if failure to assign a bug to someone in 60 days then becomes a TB issue?
[12:29] <Laibsch> 60 days is OK, then
[12:29] <LaserJock> hehe, now I need an email janitor to clean up after the LP Janitor :-)
[12:29] <jbailey> (for packages in main)
[12:29] <LaserJock> hi jbailey
[12:30] <jbailey> LaserJock: Hi =)
[12:30] <LaserJock> jbailey: what city are you in now?
[12:30] <jbailey> LaserJock: Mountain View, California.
[12:30] <LaserJock> oh, sweet
[12:30] <LaserJock> doh, I should have gathered from the Google references
[12:31] <jbailey> =)
[12:31] <LaserJock> my wife's aunt lives ~1mile from the googleplex
[12:31] <LaserJock> and we're about 5hrs drive
[12:31] <RainCT> gonna go, good night
[12:35] <bdmurray> sinzui: I've seen some bugs with milestones expire and I don't think that should happen either.
[12:36] <sinzui> bdmurray: I'm not aware of that. I'll add that to the list.
[12:36] <Fujitsu> Didn't we have a code update yesterday?
[12:36] <sinzui> Fujitsu: yes
[12:36] <bdmurray> sinzui: I think the hal bug I mentioned earlier had a milestone.
[12:36] <kalon33> hello all, some maintenance scheduled with launchpad ?
[12:38] <kalon33> edge tells me it's in maintenance... :/
[12:38] <sinzui> yeah, damn
[12:38] <mthaddon> sorry for not announcing - LP is down for maintenance
[12:38] <mdz> mthaddon: problem with the 1.1.9 release?
[12:38] <Nafallo> mthaddon: *hint* topic :-)
[12:39] <Fujitsu> Are we notified of the maintenance before the 15 minutes before? I didn't see it either of the last twice.
[12:39] <sinzui> bdmurray: You are correct, It had a milestone
[12:39] <mdz> I'm being flooded by bug expiry, not all of which I'm certain is valid.  many of them are duplicate bugs, which I don't think make sense to expire
[12:40] <LaserJock> I've only gotten 57 so far :-)
[12:41] <LaserJock> although that's got dholbach's mass MOTU wiki edit beat
[12:41] <sinzui> mdz: 1. Duplicates are exempt. 2. Bugs with any valid upstream bugtasks are exempt. 3. Use comment activity as the date indicator. 4 bugs with milestones are exempt. 5. Bug that have never had a reply.
[12:41] <sinzui> mdz: ^ These are the proposed rules to fix the expiration process.
[12:42] <seb128> mdz: I've just complained about it
[12:42] <seb128> mdz: they closed hundred of bugs without discussion with the distro team which is a slap in the face :/
[12:42] <tarheelcoxn> if there's a maintenance window going on right now, could someone please add the expected end time to the topic?
[12:43] <Fujitsu>  /me checks through his 140 closures.
[12:43] <seb128> mdz: some of the bugs are also Needs Info where the submitter replied and where we didn't replied yet nor reopened
[12:43] <kiko> mdz, we'll run a cleanup next week and revert what was incorrectly expired, there were a few corner cases missed.
[12:43] <kalon33> mthaddon: please add the maintenance schedule in news.launchpad.net
[12:43] <kalon33> thanks :)
[12:43] <mdz> kiko: is there anything I can do to help?
[12:44] <seb128> mdz: for the record I don't consider bugs were the submitter replied and that we didn't reopen because we lack manpower as corner cases
[12:44] <kiko> mdz, I think we've got all the input we can handle right now :)
[12:44] <mthaddon> kalon33, check with Rinchen on that one
[12:44] <seb128> mdz: and I think such changes should be discussed with the distro team before
[12:44] <mdz> seb128: there was a lot of discussion about this, though I don't recall which mailing list it was on
[12:44] <Rinchen> I'm logging in to do that now
[12:45] <mdz> bug 91925 e.g.
[12:45] <kalon33> Rinchen: thank you ;)
[12:45] <seb128> mdz: launchpad-users apparently, are we supposed to read this one to know what will change?
[12:45] <tarheelcoxn> Hi. can anybody tell me roughly when launchpad.net will be back? I'm getting a "down for scheduled maintenance" message.
[12:46] <Balaams_Miracle> tarheelcoxn: it gets even worse. http://news.launchpad.net/maintenance says that there is no planned maintenance....
[12:46] <mdz> seb128: it might be a good idea, but no, that shouldn't have been required in order to hear about this change
[12:46] <tarheelcoxn> oh. ugh
[12:47] <tarheelcoxn> Balaams_Miracle: thanks. I see that now. time to go get food and worry about things other than my bug, then. :)
[12:47] <mdz> seb128: I make a point of cross-posting things like that to ubuntu-devel where I think they should be
[12:47] <seb128> mdz: ok, thanks, I think sending such mails to ubuntu-devel is a good idea
[12:47] <Balaams_Miracle> tarheelcoxn: Don't let that worry you, i did see a warning about LP going down for maintenance about 20 minutes before it actually happened
[12:47] <mdz> seb128: I don't always see them, though
[12:48] <gmb> tarheelcoxn: It's going to be down for approx 1 hour.
[12:48] <tarheelcoxn> gmb: thanks much!
[12:48] <kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: refresh the news.launchpad.net page now :p
[12:48] <Balaams_Miracle> kalon33: ok
[12:48] <seb128> mdz: reading ubuntu lists is already quite some work and I'm not sure I want to read launchpad ones only to know about changes that will impact on the distro workflow
[12:48] <kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: Rinchen just update it now, that's why you didn't saw it
[12:49] <mdz> seb128: I'm certain it was discussed with the QA team, but I agree that it's a good idea to involve more developers in the discussion
[12:49] <Balaams_Miracle> kalon33: heh, just wanted to make sure it wasn't an oversight
[12:49] <seb128> mdz: I'm subscribed to ubuntu-bugsquad and it wasn't discussed there neither
[12:49] <kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: No problem ;)
[12:50] <mdz> seb128: ok, once the smoke has cleared, let's talk about how this should work in the future so that nobody is surprised
[12:50] <seb128> mdz: ok, thanks
[12:50] <Balaams_Miracle> The current patch round will probably not fix the numerous timeouts i've grown to expect, will it?
[12:51] <kiko> Balaams_Miracle, timeouts in what pages?
[12:51] <kiko> Balaams_Miracle, we did some spectacular work on +translate for this cycle, thanks to jtv
[12:51] <kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: I did the same thing 5 minutes before, and I got a reply from the developers, so I explain it to you ^^ It seems that they forgot to mark it in news
[12:51] <Balaams_Miracle> kalon33: Rosetta, which i use mostly
[12:52] <kiko> Balaams_Miracle, it should improve significantly (though not be fixed 100%)
[12:52] <kiko> Balaams_Miracle, we have been working round the clock to fix those for a few months now, but they are /hard/
[12:52] <kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: For the maintenance itself
[12:52] <Balaams_Miracle> kiko: Kewl! (btw, sorry about my previous error, forgot to tab twice)
[12:52] <kalon33> Balaams_Miracle: lol no problem ^^
[12:53] <kiko> Balaams_Miracle, no worries!
[12:53] <Balaams_Miracle> YAY! I'm forgiven! :-)
[12:54] <kalon33> I've to go sleeping, it's about 1 AM here ^^ See you later, goodbye !
[12:57] <Balaams_Miracle> I've just got an idea (it's probably not an original one, but still...) Wouldn't it be cool if there was some kind of app that would directly interface with LP translations that would automagically download all the translatable strings (including fuzzies and suggestions!) so that a translator would not have to wait for the page to load. This would especially be useful for people who have low bandwidth
[12:58] <laga> Balaams_Miracle: or who don't like rosetta.
[12:58] <Balaams_Miracle> laga: those too, i wasn't even thinking of them