[09:50] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: So I should probably format this drive and add a tiny os x partition?
[09:50] <nalioth> Red-Sox: are you following me?  :D
[09:50] <Jordan_U> If you have the OSx install disk
[09:50] <Jordan_U> nalioth, I told him to come here
[09:51] <Red-Sox> nalioth: No actually Jordan_U invited me in :P
[09:51] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: Would a MacBook one be okay?
[09:51] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Possibly, try it :)
[09:51] <Red-Sox> Maaan
[09:51] <Red-Sox> I don't wanna install OS X again
[09:52] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, It's not that hard
[09:52] <Red-Sox> I know
[09:52] <Red-Sox> But it's pretty time consuming right?
[09:53] <nalioth> Red-Sox: no, it's not.
[09:54] <Red-Sox> Hmm
[09:54] <Red-Sox> Okay let's look for this disk....
[09:54] <Red-Sox> What if I don't have one...then what Jordan_U?
[09:55] <Red-Sox> yay! I found them
[09:57] <Red-Sox> So pretty much, Jordan_U, I need to put the disk in, format the drive and install os x on a small partition?
[09:57] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Yes
[09:57] <nalioth> Red-Sox: no.
[09:57] <Red-Sox> Uh oh
[09:58] <Red-Sox> nalioth: ?
[09:58] <Jordan_U> nalioth, ? :)
[09:58] <nalioth> Red-Sox: you'll need to create a small partition (10gb will do) and THEN format it
[09:58] <Red-Sox> Okay.
[09:58] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, You may need to use Disk Utility to make the partition before installing, I don't know if the Installer itself has "Advanced" features like partitioning :)
[09:58] <Red-Sox> I barely have that much free space
[09:58] <Red-Sox> isn't that what nalioth just said?
[09:58] <nalioth> Jordan_U: it does not.
[09:59] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Yes, but I entered that before reading what he said :)
[10:00] <Red-Sox> Oh righto.
[10:00] <Red-Sox> Let's see...now how do I create a new partition?
[10:00] <Jordan_U> nalioth, I don't think he wants OS x at all ( I said to keep it for firmware upgrades ) is 10 GB really necessary ?
[10:00] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Are you in Utilities -> Disk Utility ?
[10:01] <nalioth> 10gb is a comfortable figure.  OSX can be installed on 4gb if one desires
[10:01] <Red-Sox> I'll go with 5
[10:01] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: yes
[10:01] <Red-Sox> I've selected my drive and gone to the partition tab, in the drop down menu gone to 2 partitions, but I'm not sure how to resize it
[10:02] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Drag it up and down?
[10:03] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: Yeah but that won't work..............and they are both untitled O.o
[10:03] <Red-Sox> what the heck... nalioth?
[10:05] <nalioth> how many OS do you have on the machine, Red-Sox ?
[10:07] <Red-Sox> nalioth: Three, two in parallels
[10:09] <nalioth> deletion of the partition(s) is usually the best way to start.  not knowing how Apple (or you) has the drive set up makes me advise 'finding out before deletion'
[10:14] <Red-Sox> nalioth: okay
[10:16] <Red-Sox> nalioth: How necessary is OS X?
[10:16] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, There is a hidden EFI partition which I don't think Disk Utility will let you delete anyways, other than that you can safely whipe it clean] 
[10:17] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Only for Frimware upgrades
[10:17] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: Hmm well how necessary are firmware upgrades if I'm just using ubuntu?
[10:17] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Knowing Apple... possibly very important :)
[10:17] <Red-Sox> Awww man
[10:18] <Red-Sox> So I need to whipe this HD clean and then create a 5GB partition?
[10:18] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Firmware upgrades have meant keeping macbooks from melting and added Wireless N capabilities for instance :)
[10:18] <Red-Sox> and then another partition for ubuntu
[10:18] <Red-Sox> Oh that's not too important ;)
[10:18] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, You don't "need" too, but that is the easiest way IMHO
[10:19] <Red-Sox> Okay, well
[10:31] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Have you figured out disk utility yet?
[10:32] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: Well maybe
[10:32] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, And I guess you can always just use an install on an external drive if you ever need to do a firmware upgrade
[10:32] <Red-Sox> I don't want to format yet because I'm doing something elseon this computer, besides how will I format it if I'm _using_ this drive
[10:32] <Red-Sox> Oh dude good idea!
[10:32] <Red-Sox> I don't even have to install it yet...I can wait for the next firmware update and see if it's necessary
[10:33] <nalioth> Red-Sox: um, you're supposed to use disk utility from the OSX install cd
[10:34] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, And OSx is really amazing in that any intel mac install will boot any other intel mac, with no configuration needed, so you can even borrow from someone else
[10:34] <Red-Sox> Oh great
[10:35] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, To add to that any mac can be booted holding T making it act exactly like an external Firewire drive, so you can just borrow any intel mac :)
[10:35] <Red-Sox> SO I should just pop in the i386 alt install
[10:35] <Red-Sox> and it will boot?
[10:35] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Yup, and nuke the whole drive :)
[10:35] <Red-Sox> Great
[10:35] <Red-Sox> I've backed up everything and consolidated my itunes library to my external drive sooo
[10:36] <Red-Sox> well it's a little nerve racking but I'll go do it LOL
[10:36] <nalioth> Red-Sox: huh? alt install?
[10:36] <Red-Sox> nalioth: Uh I mean the alt. disk
[10:36] <Red-Sox> I don't like the live cd junk
[10:36] <nalioth> Red-Sox: you're not listening
[10:36] <Jordan_U> nalioth, ?
[10:36] <nalioth> Red-Sox: Disk Utility comes on the OSX Install disc
[10:36] <Red-Sox> que?
[10:36] <Red-Sox> Right...
[10:37] <Jordan_U> nalioth, We have decided to go completely without OSx
[10:37] <Red-Sox> Yes, and if I need new firmware to install OS X on my external drive
[10:37] <nalioth> ah, then go for it
[10:37] <Red-Sox> mk
[10:38] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, The nice thing about not having OSx is that you don't have to deal with the oddities of having two partition tables ( BIOS and GPT )
[10:39] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: I don't even know what that means...hahaha
[10:39] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Dual booting with OSx can let you do strange things, like I currently have 5 *primary* partitions ;)
[10:39] <Red-Sox> Mk
[10:41] <nalioth> Jordan_U: that's not strange.  That is "Progress"
[10:42] <Jordan_U> nalioth, It's not strange if you only have a GPT partition table, when you also have an MBR it gets strange
[10:45] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: How am I supposed to boot the CD Jordan_U?
[10:45] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Hold down option or "C"
[10:46] <Red-Sox> wow im dumb
[10:46] <nalioth> Red-Sox: dumb isn't 'ignorant'
[10:47] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, No, just used to PC's :)
[10:47] <Red-Sox> For some reason the Ubuntu disk showed up as "windows"
[10:47] <Red-Sox> weird lol
[10:48] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, That is because according to Apple there are only two operating system in the world, so if it isn't OSx it must be Windows :)
[10:48] <Red-Sox> haha nice!
[10:50] <Red-Sox> and flash works with intel macs right nalioth?
[10:50] <Red-Sox> or Jordan_U
[10:51] <nalioth> Red-Sox: yes
[10:51] <Red-Sox> great.
[10:51] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Yup, intel macs are basically just x86 PC with some oddities here and there
[10:51] <Red-Sox> like what?
[10:52] <nalioth> Red-Sox: don't listen to Jordan_U
[10:52] <nalioth> the 'oddities' he speaks of have no meaning for users
[10:53] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, True, you will probably never encounter any differences
[10:55] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, One example is that fan speed settings are changed by talking to the firmware, and they are lost when you suspend or reboot, but unless you are trying to manually control fan speed you won't notice
[10:55] <Red-Sox> Okay
[10:57] <Red-Sox> all right, and if I want, can I install kubuntu-desktop and only see gnome apps in gnome and only see kde apps in kde?
[10:57] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Yes, let me grab a link...
[10:58] <Red-Sox> great
[10:59] <Red-Sox> man this installer has been at 6% 'please wait' forever
[11:00] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, I thought there was one @ http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/index.php but I'm not finding it
[11:00] <Red-Sox> Okay, well I'll figure it out when I get there
[11:00] <Red-Sox> I've been undecided about which WM I like best for years
[11:01] <Red-Sox> well I've only been using linux since I was...11? so it's not like years years
[11:02] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, How old are you ?
[11:02] <Red-Sox> uh 14....
[11:05] <Red-Sox> haha um ok
[11:07] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: did you ever try XFCE?
[11:08] <nalioth> tis approved by rodentia
[11:08] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Yes
[11:08] <Red-Sox> what's that nalioth?
[11:08] <Red-Sox> oh I get it
[11:09] <Red-Sox> haha...not
[11:09] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: What do you think?
[11:09] <nalioth> Red-Sox: the XFCE emblem is a rat
[11:09] <Red-Sox> no yeah I get it now
[11:09] <Red-Sox> I always laughed at ratpoison because of that
[11:09] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, It's nice but missing a few features that I like ( that I could get working but I am to lazy )
[11:10] <Red-Sox> What about e17?
[11:10] <Red-Sox> all right here comes first boot....
[11:10] <Red-Sox> GRUB is working....
[11:10] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, I havn't personally seen an e17 setup that I didn't think looked ugly, but all this is personal preference
[11:10] <Red-Sox> It's booting....
[11:11] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: Yeah it's a bit bloated I guess
[11:11] <Red-Sox> oh snap X started!
[11:11] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Of course, intel provides open source drivers :)
[11:12] <nalioth> e17 is great
[11:12] <Red-Sox> haha just saying
[11:12] <Red-Sox> nalioth: how often?
[11:12] <Red-Sox> Oh and is there any way to sync two ubuntu desktops to one another (bookmarks...shortcuts, etc)
[11:12] <nalioth> Red-Sox: um, every nanosecond the computer is on?
[11:13] <Jordan_U> nalioth, It has a lot of features yet is still pretty light weight which I like, mind giving a screenshot ( given that my only problem with it is getting it to look good ) ?
[11:16] <Jordan_U> That and backlight controls don't work on my machine by default with e17
[11:19] <Red-Sox> jeeze these updates are taking FOREVER
[11:20] <Red-Sox> nalioth: how can you use it every nanosecond the computer is on...it's gotta boot doesn't it ;)
[11:22] <Red-Sox> yao Jordan_U http://www.desktopian.org/e17/screenshots/e17-theme2.jpg
[11:26] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Yea, I am not particularly fond of it, I don't like anything flashy but the lack of anti-ailiasing and gradients where applicable is a little jarring for me. Thats why I like clearlooks
[11:28] <Red-Sox> eh?
[11:28] <Red-Sox> ooh that looks nice
[11:29] <Red-Sox> but it doesn't really look that different from regular gnome, Jordan_U
[11:31] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, Which, clearlooks?
[11:33] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: Yes.
[11:33] <Red-Sox> is ubuntuguide.org down?
[11:38] <nalioth> did you ping it?
[11:39] <Red-Sox> nope but it won't load on either computer which is realistically what matters to me
[11:40] <Jordan_U> nalioth, Red-Sox It is not responding to pings
[11:40] <Jordan_U> Red-Sox, What did you need from it?
[11:43] <Red-Sox> Jordan_U: um the guide
[11:43] <Red-Sox> hahaha
[11:43] <Red-Sox> Seriously though, I need to know how to install flash and whatever else I may be forgetting that you're supposed to do as soon as you install ubuntu
[11:44] <nalioth> Red-Sox: !flash
[11:44] <nalioth> Red-Sox: !dvd
[11:45] <nalioth> Red-Sox: and you've obviously been away a while, because after flash and dvd, everything else is install-on-deman
[11:45] <nalioth> d
[11:46] <Red-Sox> oh baby
[11:46] <Red-Sox> that's pretty sweet
[11:46] <Red-Sox> no codecs, nalioth?
[11:46] <nalioth> Red-Sox: intall on demand
[11:46] <nalioth> Red-Sox: you click "whatever.mp3" and you'll be asked if you want to isntall the codecs
[11:52] <Red-Sox> nalioth: NICE
[11:54] <jrib> flash gets installed when you visit a page that needs it too
[11:54] <jrib> in firefox
[11:56] <Red-Sox> DANG everything seems to be easier than even in OS X
[11:56] <Red-Sox> what's the package for ms cleartype
[11:56] <Red-Sox> er
[11:56] <Red-Sox> truetype*
[11:56] <Red-Sox> but I found it
[12:06] <Red-Sox> ooooooh banshee looks nice