[12:56] <elmo> sorry,wasdavplease try again now
[12:56] <elmo> meh
[12:56] <elmo> DaveMorris: please try again now
[12:58] <DaveMorris> worked then thanks
[02:56] <poolie> i'm getting "sorry, there was a problem connecting to the launchpad severs" on staging...
[02:56] <poolie> and again
[03:00] <poolie> i really hope this bulk expiration will be undone...
[03:05] <ubotu> New bug: #144329 in launchpad "launchpad says to mail feedback@ to change official bug tracker, but I can do it myself..." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144329
[03:07] <jamesh> yep
[03:08] <jamesh> it is the kind of thing that should not have been done on a weekend
[03:08] <poolie> particularly because we have sometimes been using needsinfo for 'needs discussion/decision', not 'give the user an ultimatum'
[03:09] <poolie> what kind of message does it send when someone has spent probably 30 minutes giving a good description and it just gets rejected

[03:10] <LaserJock> it's fairly easy to re-status them
[03:10] <jamesh> LaserJock: it is fairly easy to restatus one of them, yes
[03:10] <poolie> manually?
[03:10] <LaserJock> yes
[03:10] <poolie> yeah, if i didn't want to do anything else today...
[03:10] <LaserJock> well, I've used it as a chance to clean up all the old junk bugs I had laying around
[03:10] <poolie> about 70 were closed
[03:10] <poolie> for us
[03:10] <LaserJock> I had 138 total
[03:11] <poolie> very likely some of them should have been closed, but 
[03:11] <LaserJock> but most of those were from Launchpad itself
[03:11] <poolie> closing valid bugs is worse than leaving dead bugs open, much worse
[03:12] <jamesh> a reminder without a status change wouldn't have been too bad
[03:12] <poolie> that would be quite nice
[03:13] <ajmitch> a lot of the problem was projects using statuses to mean different things
[03:13] <poolie> although maybe with some kind of ramp up for bugs already in that state, rather than sending them all in one flood
[03:25] <ScottK> LaserJock: I have yet to look at a closure that was correct that couldn't have also been done automatically based on the status of a bug that is was duped to.
[03:26] <ScottK> poolie: I agree.
[03:26] <jamesh> ScottK: the fact that duplicates were hit was a bug
[03:26] <poolie> jamesh, do you know if this will be reverted?
[03:26] <ScottK> ajmitch: I would say that's not the problem.  That's another reason why this change is a bad idea.
[03:27] <ScottK> jamesh: OK.  Well that moves it up to totally useless in my experience.
[03:27] <ScottK> Gah.
[03:28] <jamesh> poolie: according to Curtis's mail to launchpad-users, they are planning on reverting the changes to a bunch of the bugs
[03:28] <poolie> k
[03:28] <jamesh> poolie: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/launchpad-users/2007-September/002282.html
[03:29] <poolie> thanks
[03:29] <poolie> actually i think that's not enough, but i'll reply on the list
[03:35] <ubotu> New bug: #144332 in launchpad-bazaar "there are two launchpad code faqs" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144332
[03:43] <ScottK> jamesh: That looks like a small step in the right direction, but doesn't commit to revert the entire mess.
[03:45] <pkern> It's a pity that one can't see where packages uploaded to ppa disappear.
[03:48] <LaserJock> I personally think the Janitor idea is not a bad one
[03:48] <LaserJock> I think if they clean up the rules it should be pretty ok
[03:48] <LaserJock> but I do think they need to give been documentation on how to use the statuses properly
[03:49] <jamesh> I agree that this wasn't handled as well as it should have been.
[03:49] <jamesh> people get very attached to their bug reports (for good reason)
[03:52] <ScottK> jamesh: I seriously resent having to sort through over 100 bugmails looking for ones that shouldn't be closed.  As a volunteer Ubuntu developer, it was a serious imposition on my time for working on Ubuntu.
[03:53] <ScottK> BTW, none of which were one's I wrote.
[03:53] <LaserJock> ScottK: please, try to give them some time to rework it
[03:53] <LaserJock> obviously it didn't quite go as planned
[03:53] <ScottK> LaserJock: That's what's supposed to happen BEFORE release.
[03:53] <kiko> ScottK, well, things don't always go exactly as planned.
[03:54] <ScottK> Fundamentally the concept is flawed IMO anyway.
[03:54] <LaserJock> ScottK: right, but that is not your decision
[03:54] <LaserJock> it's not mine either
[03:54] <kiko> I think that's hard to establish without experience; I think most people are having knee-jerk reactions
[03:54] <ScottK> LaserJock: That's true.
[03:54] <LaserJock> we can help the LP guys get it the best we can
[03:54] <kiko> if it turns out to be a bad idea, we of course will give up on it.
[03:55] <kiko> despite common belief, I do care deeply if people are unhappy with something in Launchpad
[03:55] <kiko> but there are steps to getting a feature right and sometimes the first one is a bit awkward
[03:55] <ScottK> Well I'm about to give up on being an Ubuntu developer (except for a few packages key to my business needs) and the (from my perspective) steady deterioration in LP is one of the three main reasons.
[03:56] <kiko> I resent your broad statement, ScottK, but it's sunday and I'm going to bed.
[03:56] <ScottK> Others will have different opinions (which is why I said from my perspective).  But that's mine.
[04:08] <LaserJock> ScottK: I honestly don't want to see you go and appreciate your dedicated work on Universe, but if you feel like you time is better spent elsewhere then maybe that's the right thing to do
[04:09] <ScottK> LaserJock: It's not that I feel it would be better spent elsewhere, it's that doing this work is getting more frustrating, so the reward is less.
[04:09] <ScottK> I've gotten to the point of wondering why I'm doing something for "fun" that is so stressing.
[04:09] <LaserJock> sure
[04:10] <ScottK> I made some specific committments for Gutsy and so I won't go anywhere before the release.  Maybe I'll change my mind before then.
[06:35] <ubotu> New bug: #144353 in launchpad-bazaar "Tests for recordActivity in branch puller" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144353
[07:53] <ubotu> New bug: #144358 in launchpad "No notification of team ownership change" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144358
[08:40] <carlos> morning
[10:09] <dholbach> heya - can somebody take a look at  http://daniel.holba.ch/temp/bzr.crash ?
[10:09] <dholbach> is there something wrong with LP?
[10:11] <mwh> dholbach: well
[10:11] <mwh> usually you would pull from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-gutsy
[10:12] <dholbach> mwh: true - thanks :)
[10:12] <mwh> though i think you can pull from http://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-doc/gnome-user-docs/ubuntu-gutsy too
[10:12] <mwh> (it redirects to the former)
[10:13] <mwh> if you can, and can't pull from edge, that sounds like a bug
[10:13] <mwh> (probably in some apache config somewhere)
[10:24] <mrevell> Morning all
[10:30] <DaveMorris> elmo You fixed the uploading problem yesterday with ppa, however now I'm not getting any accepted/rejected mails nor is it appearing in my upload section.  I uploaded last night and again a couple of hours ago.  Is this related to the upgrade that took place?
[11:07] <DaveMorris> sorry if I missed a reply, gaim seg faulted on me
[11:17] <gnomefreak> im guessing the LP janitor is fixed?
[11:22] <pkern> Same problem here as DaveMorris, I uploaded multiple times to ppa around midnight UTC, and there were no mails at all, nor entries on LP about the package.
[11:36] <DaveMorris> bug #144392, I'm not sure what package it should be reported against, however I tagged it the same as the other bug I found with the uploader which was Bug #139420
[11:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 144392 in ubuntu "PPA uploads don't appear in LP nor have accepted/reject emails sent" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144392
[11:36] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 139420 in soyuz "PPA upload versions are not being verified" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139420 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[11:39] <elmo> DaveMorris: it should be fixed now, the next cron.daily should start processing PPA again
[11:39] <elmo> DaveMorris: but for future reference, please file such PPA bugs against the 'soyuz' project, rather than 'ubuntu'
[11:40] <DaveMorris> thanks elmo, I always struggle to find projects/packages to file bugs against
[11:41] <pkern> cron.`daily'... o_O
[11:42] <pkern> elmo: Are the uploaded packages lost, i.e. do we need to re-upload?
[11:42] <elmo> pkern: it's not really daily, the naming is just hysterical
[11:42] <elmo> pkern: no packages should be lost, the cron job to process them just wasn't able to run, it'll pick them up now
[11:43] <pkern> `at least' once a day? ;)
[11:43] <pkern> Ok, thanks.
[11:43] <elmo> no, 'daily' is either every hour or every half hour, I forget which for PPA
[11:44] <elmo> (it's called cron.daily because that's what the script was called in dak)
[11:45] <ubotu> New bug: #144392 in soyuz "cron.daily dies after poppy restart because of permission problems with queue dot-lock file" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144392
[11:46] <pkern> Ah ok, thanks. Even there it's run (at least?) twice daily now, so I get the point.
[11:49] <pwnguin> did i anger the ppa gods?
[11:50] <pwnguin> none of my uploads are hitting =/
[11:50] <DaveMorris> are they uploading?
[11:50] <pwnguin> yes
[11:51] <DaveMorris> then it's caused by bug #144392
[11:51] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 144392 in soyuz "cron.daily dies after poppy restart because of permission problems with queue dot-lock file" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144392
[11:51] <pwnguin> heh
[11:51] <pwnguin> ok
[11:52] <pwnguin> i noticed it earlier than this, but figured it'd take a few hours and hit or something =/
[11:52] <pwnguin> i hate reporting bugs that wind up being user error =(
[11:53] <DaveMorris> yeah I noticed last night, but confirmed with someone else earlier that I wasn't the only person affected
[11:54] <pwnguin> well
[11:54] <pwnguin> not much i can do then
[11:55] <pkern> Are person (autocreated due to package upload) -> team conversions possible?
[12:00] <jamesh> pkern: not through the web UI
[12:00] <jamesh> pkern: file a ticket at https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
[12:01] <pkern> Ok, did so.
[12:01] <pkern> (I asked about a week ago.)
[12:05] <sabdfl> elmo: can we rename cron.daily, please?
[12:05] <sabdfl> cron.processuploads or somesuch?
[12:09] <pwnguin> i noticed ppas remove old versions finally -- am I missing the way to unpublish something?
[12:12] <pwnguin> i dont think anyone's interested in debhelper, but they might care about thinkfinger
[12:12] <pwnguin> er
[12:12] <pwnguin> hello-debhelper
[12:18] <gnomefreak> pwnguin: ppa removes it if its superseeded but there still isnt a way for the person to do it
[12:18] <gnomefreak> afaik
[12:18] <pwnguin> ok
[12:19] <pwnguin> heh, maybe i should try getting it into ubuntu proper
[12:19] <gnomefreak> once im done with these uploads ill look but i dont think it was added yet
[12:21] <gnomefreak> it doesnt look like any of mozillateam packages were removed
[12:22] <gnomefreak> i need to get my own running now that i got the teams running
[12:40] <ubotu> New bug: #144399 in rosetta "Translations copy uses temp tables across transactions" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144399
[12:54] <elmo> sabdfl: err, I can file a bug about it, sure
[01:04] <sabdfl> elmo: would you object to calling it something else, is really what i meant
[01:05] <ubotu> New bug: #144400 in soyuz "pleas rename cron.daily to something less confusing" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144400
[01:09] <elmo> sabdfl: no, I don't object at all.  I suspect it'll take a year or two for the distro folks to stop referring to it as cron.daily though, old habits etc.
[01:12] <pwnguin> if it's a daily, that makes sense. but somehow i gather processuploads runs more often than that
[01:12] <Fujitsu> It has always been cron.daily :( It can't change now!
[01:18] <Daviey> Doesn't cron.daily default to running ~6:00am?
[01:25] <elmo> Daviey: this is launchpad's cron.daily, it doesn't run daily, it's a misnamed script
[01:25] <Daviey> ah.. /me hides again
[01:49] <gnomefreak> anyone else notice tags are no longer shown?
[01:49] <gnomefreak> on Lp bugs
[01:49] <gnomefreak> example bug without tags showing bug 130629
[01:49] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 130629 in firefox ""dropdown option selected with mouse is not the actual selection made". Using arrow keys works fine." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/130629 - Assigned to Mozilla Bugs (mozilla-bugs)
[01:52] <sabdfl> gnomefreak: i see the tags there, at least on bugs.edge.lp.net
[01:52] <gnomefreak> sabdfl: i dont see them using edge, were they moved from bottom of orig. post?
[01:52] <gnomefreak> oh damn im blind
[01:52] <gnomefreak> sorry they were moved
[03:00] <ubotu> New bug: #144428 in rosetta "language pack export scripts needs to connect as a specific database user" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144428
[03:09] <Hobbsee> what was in the weekend downtime?  do we have a list of changes?
[03:10] <Hobbsee> (in particular, the one about security bugs for packages only being shown to the security team, and the original reporter - not the team contacts AND/OR ~ubuntu-dev.
[03:10] <elmo> Hobbsee: the downtime over the weekend wasn't about making changes to launchpad itself
[03:10] <Hobbsee> elmo: damn.
[03:11] <sabdfl> howdy Hobbsee
[03:12] <Hobbsee> hi sabdfl, how's it going?
[03:12] <sabdfl> zuuupa, thanks :-)
[03:13] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: Um, that's the point of security bugs.
[03:13] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: i'm sure we used to be able to see them?
[03:13] <Fujitsu> No...
[03:13] <Fujitsu> Not until pitti or keescook subscribed us, or unprivatised them.
[03:14] <Hobbsee> how useful.
[03:14] <elmo> Hobbsee: there has to be a way to have private bugs, for embargoed issues
[03:15] <Hobbsee> elmo: even private, non-security are visible to MOTU and core devs...
[03:15] <Fujitsu> That being the entire point of securityness.
[03:15] <Hobbsee> elmo: oh, you mean private-private, as in, canonical partner private?
[03:15] <Fujitsu> Or embargoed security flaws...
[03:15] <elmo> Hobbsee: no, I mean private-private, as in Ubuntu security team private
[03:15] <Fujitsu> Hobbsee: We can only see private bugs if we're subscribed.
[03:16] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: is the subscription via manual subscription, or by bug contact?
[03:16] <Fujitsu> Manual.
[03:16] <Fujitsu> No implicit subscriptions in private bugs.
[03:17] <Hobbsee> elmo: hm.
[03:18] <Fujitsu> I don't think it's actually documented anywhere, but that's normal with LP.
[03:18] <Hobbsee> no, documentation is for the weak.
[03:19] <Hobbsee> 4 people.  wow.
[03:19] <Fujitsu> ?
[03:19] <Hobbsee> on the security team.
[03:19] <Fujitsu> I'm surprised it's that many.
[03:19] <Fujitsu> They do have embargoes to keep.
[03:20] <Hobbsee> Fujitsu: well, they're all employees, so...it wouldnt surprise me.
[03:50] <ubotu> New bug: #144435 in launchpad "cannot import gpg v2/v3 RSA key" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144435
[04:12] <mwh> hmm
[04:13] <mwh> usually that means there's a keyserver somewhere that needs kicking
[04:21] <ubotu> New bug: #144444 in malone "No obvious route to an Ubuntu source package from the project it corresponds with" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144444
[04:21] <elmo> mwh: no
[04:21] <mwh> oh, ok
[04:21] <elmo> mwh: v2/v3 RSA keys aren't supported by the gnupg package in ubuntu main for patent reasons
[04:22] <mwh> fun
[04:37] <hexmode> lp gurus: where do I look to link my hosted project to the lp bugtracker?
[04:37] <hexmode> https://edge.launchpad.net/ihris-suite/ -- my project
[04:37] <hexmode> (if this is in the docs somewhere, just give me a url)
[04:39] <mwh> hexmode: i'm not sure what you're asking for
[04:40] <mwh> hexmode: you don't just mean https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ihris-suite/ do you?
[04:40] <hexmode> well, it says we don't use lp for our bug tracker when you try to submit a bug
[04:41] <hexmode> or so I'm told
[04:41] <hexmode> checking
[04:41] <kiko> hexmode, visit your project's +edit page, and select the appropriate option. ask me if you can't find it.
[04:42] <hexmode> k
[04:44] <hexmode> kiko: I see a list of bugtrackers.  lp isn't one of them.  i have to have a seperate bugtracker that lp links to?
[04:45] <kiko> hexmode, no, you select the option "< > In Launchpad". :)
[04:45] <kiko> hexmode, what page are you on.
[04:45] <kiko> ?
[04:45] <hexmode> https://edge.launchpad.net/ihris-suite/+edit
[04:46] <hexmode> I don't see "<> in launchpad"
[04:46] <ddaa> kiko: I'd bet it's correct... the dropdown attracts the attention much more than the radio buttons just above
[04:46] <hexmode> ah
[04:46] <ddaa> Me think this could use some javascript...
[04:46] <hexmode> no, no button to click
[04:46] <hexmode> lemme try non-beta version
[04:47] <kiko> hexmode, (( Change ))
[04:47] <kiko> what button are you looking for?
[04:48] <ddaa> "( ) In Launchpad ( ) Somewhere else", then when the second radio is selected, it shows the dropdown and "[ ]  None of the above"
[04:49] <hexmode> kiko: I have no clue what I'm looking for.  I don't see anything that says "in launchpad".  All I see is a dropdown for "Bug Tracker" with "(no value)" currently selected
[04:50] <ddaa> kiko: ihris-suite is a project group
[04:50] <kiko> ah.
[04:50] <ddaa> Right the forms are inconsistent for project and project group :(
[04:50] <hexmode> gotcha
[04:50] <kiko> hexmode, you need to do it for the individual products. that you need to do it is a bug, but at least you can work around it this way until we fix it.
[04:51] <hexmode> excellent
[04:51] <hexmode> I see now. tyvm
[04:52] <kiko> sorry bout that!
[04:52] <hexmode> np.  I'm just now figuring out lp
[04:54] <kiko> me too 8)
[05:09] <iwj> I (well, a script of mine) just sent mail to new@bugs.launchpad.net but it seems to have vanished.
[05:10] <iwj> Sent nearly 15 mins ago now.
[06:03] <iwj> Is there anyone here who might be able to help me with my lost email ?
[06:05] <ddaa> you feeling okay Ian?
[06:05] <ddaa> BTW, why do you not have a fancy ubuntu cloak?
[06:06] <iwj> ddaa: Yes, I'm fine, thanks.
[06:06] <ddaa> what kind of help do you require?
[06:06] <iwj> 16:09 <iwj> I (well, a script of mine) just sent mail to new@bugs.launchpad.net but it seems to have vanished.
[06:06] <iwj> 16:10 <iwj> Sent nearly 15 mins ago now.
[06:06] <iwj> So err, 1h10 ago now.
[06:07] <iwj> Sorry for sounding tetchy.  I just wondered if I was speaking to an empty room :-).
[06:07] <ddaa> BjornT: any clue?
[06:07] <iwj> It may well be my fault somehow.
[06:07] <kiko> iwj, I don't /see/ anything in the error logs
[06:07] <pochu> iwj: did you signed it?
[06:08] <iwj> gpg: Good signature from "Ian Jackson (autopkgtest bug submitter - do not use) <iwj@ubuntu.com>"
[06:08] <iwj> Sent at 14:55 Z today.
[06:08] <pochu> (that happened to me once, and the issue was I hadn't signed it).
[06:09] <iwj> Well, yes, I did have some problem earlier with mails getting corrupted making the signature check fail, but that was fixed last week.
[06:09] <iwj> From: Ian Jackson <ian+ubuntu-autopkgtest@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
[06:09] <iwj> To: new@bugs.launchpad.net
[06:09] <iwj> Subject: autopkgtest gutsy ltsp-client-core amd64: erroneous package!
[06:10] <iwj> My system doesn't make up its own message-id but I can probably get the sysadmins to produce MTA log entries if necessary.
[06:15] <ubotu> New bug: #144485 in launchpad "FTI update trigger should not be invoked when modifying a non-indexed column" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144485
[06:15] <elmo> iwj: oh, this is our fault, hang on
[06:16] <iwj> elmo: Oh, really ?
[06:18] <elmo> iwj: yeah, sorry, I was doing some emergency maintenance of the buildd network on friday night and it broke outgoing mail
[06:18] <kiko_> account add msn kiko_async@hotmail.com n8t1ve
[06:18] <kiko_> gar.
[06:18] <iwj> elmo: Blimey.  Strange, though, since I got a mail I sent to myself from cadmium.
[06:19] <iwj> Err, I thought.
[06:19] <iwj> But I can't find it now.
[06:19] <iwj> Well, err, let me know when it's fixed and whether I should resend.
[06:21] <elmo> iwj: I'm fixing it now, the mail was queued, should no need to resend
[06:21] <iwj> elmo: OK, thanks.
[06:33] <iwj> Yay, bug flood.
[06:57] <jjesse> good afternoon, when i access my page through edge.launchpad.net/~jjesse in ie7 all i get no information below my name 
[06:58] <jjesse> works fine under firefox under windows
[06:58] <jjesse> same for all bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~jjesse, code.edge.launchpad.net/~jjesse ,etc
[06:58] <kiko-fud> jjesse, please file a bug with a screenshot!
[07:05] <jjesse> kiko-fud: will do
[07:05] <jjesse> was just curious, i'm probablly the only ie user for launchpad
[07:41] <jjesse> ok reported as bug #144514
[07:41] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 144514 in launchpad "Problems with current beta version of launchpad" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144514
[07:42] <jjesse> changed the title of the bug, sorry bout that
[07:50] <ubotu> New bug: #144514 in launchpad "Problems with current beta version of launchpad and IE7" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144514
[08:28] <filip89> hi i need your help with bug
[08:28] <ddaa> what kind of help do you need?
[08:42] <filip89> ddaa
[08:42] <filip89> i have no sound on my laptop
[08:42] <ddaa> You should probably ask on #ubuntu then
[08:43] <filip89> wait
[08:43] <filip89> i try solve my problem with ubuntu forum
[08:44] <filip89> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.20/+bug/120302 here is bu
[08:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120302 in linux-source-2.6.20 "Feisty Sound not working at all on a toshiba a200 satellite has intel HDA" [Medium,Fix committed]   - Assigned to Ubuntu Audio Team (ubuntu-audio)
[08:44] <filip89> bug
[08:44] <ddaa> Right that's an ubuntu bug.
[08:45] <filip89> and i have 2.6.22 kernel
[08:45] <ddaa> you should ask on #ubuntu about it.
[08:45] <filip89> also i have realtek id 268
[08:45] <ddaa> #launchpad is about issues with launchpad itself
[08:46] <filip89> i would ask if I should also report it as a bug
[08:46] <ddaa> if you have a problem with your network card, you should probably use the answer tracker, or file a bug
[08:47] <kiko> filip89, answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[08:47] <ddaa> kiko: thanks
[08:47] <filip89> i`m new here, so I don`t now, what to do
[08:47] <filip89> thx
[08:48] <kiko> filip89, no worries. ask a question -- they are normally answered quite swiftly.
[08:48] <filip89> ok, so I should ask at answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu?
[08:49] <kiko> filip89, yes, exactly.
[08:49] <filip89> ok, i will try it
[08:58] <ScottK> kiko: I'm sorry I upset you last night.  My perspective may well be a small enough minority that it can be safely ignored.  If you care to discuss it, I'm willing to do so.
[09:25] <kiko> ScottK, thanks for saying that. I really was taken aback by your statement!
[09:26] <ScottK> Looking at all the things that LP does, I probably only see 10% of it and I know everyone is working hard trying to do the right thing.
[09:27] <kiko> ScottK, we really, honestly, truthfully want to produce the best tool possibly. sometimes we mess it up royally. but the intention is there
[09:27] <ScottK> I accept the intention, but have personally been dissappointed with the result.
[09:27] <kiko> ScottK, in this instance, or always?
[09:28] <kiko> in this instance, I'd be disappointed too
[09:28] <ScottK> Particularly in this instance, but since what I think was called the upgrade to the beta U/I.
[09:28] <kiko> ScottK, ah, you don't like the 1.0 UI?
[09:29] <ScottK> No.
[09:29] <ScottK> I find it more complex and confusing than the earlier one.
[09:29] <kiko> ScottK, you preferred the old one, or you hate both equally?
[09:29] <ScottK> It is definitely prettier, but less useable.
[09:29] <ScottK> I preferred the old one.
[09:30] <kiko> interesting.
[09:30] <kiko> the old one had horribly inconsistent navigation; but I guess you might not have noticed it
[09:30] <ubotu> New bug: #144540 in launchpad "Change subjects of team membership change notifications sent to admins to be shorter while still containing all necessary details" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144540
[09:30] <kiko> is there anything specific and simple that could be done to make it less unusable?
[09:31] <ScottK> Make it work on my Treo would be a simple request, but probably hard to implement.
[09:31] <ScottK> The old one worked.
[09:31] <ScottK> I can read bugs now, but not change status.
[09:31] <ScottK> There are a couple of key things that would help, I think:
[09:31] <ScottK> Let me pull up a specific example.
[09:32] <ScottK> I'm currently looking at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/127772
[09:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127772 in linux-source-2.6.22 "CPU fan no longer runs after upgrade to Gutsy" [Medium,Triaged]   - Assigned to Ubuntu Kernel ACPI Team (ubuntu-kernel-acpi)
[09:33] <ScottK> When I look at the line below "Affects  	Status  	Importance  	Assigned to"
[09:33] <ScottK> To change Status or Importance, I click on the listed staus or importance.  
[09:33] <kiko> man
[09:34] <kiko> if you are complaining about the product link..
[09:34] <ScottK> To change Affects or Assigned to, I click on Affects or Assigned to.
[09:34] <ScottK> That's been that way for some time, but I still get it wrong routinely.
[09:35] <kiko> it was changed in 1.1.9
[09:36] <kiko> I hate that change; we should revert it
[09:36] <ScottK> For U/I consistency, all those links should take you to the menu that lets you change them.
[09:37] <kiko> yeah, they really should.
[09:38] <ScottK> I filed a bug about that a while ago.  I'm looking for it.
[09:40] <ScottK> kiko: It's Bug #137448
[09:40] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137448 in launchpad "New UI is confusing and counter inuitive for changing affected package" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137448
[09:40] <ubotu> New bug: #144542 in launchpad "no obvious way to get from a source package to its translations" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144542
[09:42] <ScottK> Another thing I'll just mention (I'm pretty certain you aren't going to change it) is I was asked (I think it was you, but it may have been someone else) to give the new fonts a few weeks.  I still don't particularly like them.
[09:43] <ScottK> The new package page is still driving me batty.  I'd like the old one back as I'm almost always going to it and it's now one link deeper.
[09:45] <ScottK> The old package information at the top with the changelog information below (if it were complete/correct) would be better than either the old or new pages.
[09:48] <kiko> ScottK, what was the "old package information"?
[09:48] <kiko> the history?
[09:49] <ScottK> kiko: Yes.  What's now behind "Show publishing history"
[09:50] <kiko> ScottK, you must realize that most other users rejoiced at this change?
[09:50] <kiko> that's a hard one.
[09:50] <ScottK> I've heard that and I can't imagine why.
[09:51] <ScottK> kiko: Is there an example of a package where the upstream information is filled out?
[09:52] <ScottK> Perhaps since I haven't hit one of those, I don't see the utility of it.
[09:52] <kiko> ScottK, having the complete package information would be nice -- that page in part is trying to drive people to complete it.
[09:53] <ScottK> kiko: In Universe we deal with thousands of packages.  This just isn't feasible.
[09:54] <kiko> I guess part of it is nobody knows why packaging information is good. :)
[09:54] <ScottK> This ties in, I guess, to my troubles with the new way of linking to upstream bugs.
[09:55] <ScottK> If I have to register a package to do it, I'm just not going to do it.  It's too much trouble.
[09:56] <kiko> ScottK, that isn't "the new way" -- it has always been required.
[09:56] <ScottK> OK.
[09:56] <kiko> ScottK, we are working on making the registration one-shot, pulling information externally
[09:57] <kiko> and it'll also be part of the same add-a-watch workflow
[09:57] <kiko> so it should be a lot easier
[09:57] <kiko> I guess you're not one to be excited by the prospect of a good tool. :)
[09:57] <ScottK> Maybe I've just been lucky before, but I could have sworn I could just put a link to the bug in before.
[09:58] <ScottK> kiko: I like good tools.  I do not like it if the tool demands to much of me for little return.
[09:58] <ScottK> That's why I asked for a package that has the upstream information so I could see what it's supposed to look like/be useful for.
[09:59] <kiko> ScottK, one sec.
[10:02] <kiko> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox
[10:03] <kiko> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal\
[10:04] <kiko> etc
[10:04] <ScottK> OK.
[10:04] <kiko> there are a few that have complete information
[10:04] <kiko> in fact, a lot more than there used to be.
[10:04] <kiko> with packaging information we know:
[10:04] <kiko> - what product the ubuntu task is downstream to
[10:04] <kiko> - what bugtracker the product uses
[10:05] <ScottK> What is the value of text saying "Mozilla Firefox Series: 2.0"?  I'm not getting it.
[10:05] <kiko> we've got work in this cycle to allow tracking upstreams which don't use real bugtrackers -- email addresses and mailing lists
[10:05] <kiko> bbias
[10:19] <LaserJock> danilos: around?
[10:20] <LaserJock> anybody familiar with translations/Rosetta around?
[12:37] <poolie> hi
[12:38] <poolie> is staging permanently offline? it's been saying 'please try again' for >24h