=== Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log === ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@ubuntu/bot/ubuntulog] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Topic for #ubuntu-meeting: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 24 Sep 19:00 UTC: Screencast Team | 25 Sep 15:00 UTC: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00 UTC: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00 UTC: Desktop Team Development === Topic (#ubuntu-meeting): set by ubotu at Fri Sep 21 15:30:18 2007 === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mayeco [n=mayeco@201.218.105.31] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Zic [n=Zic@ubuntu/member/zic] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@external-1.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:49] moin === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@external-1.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F74067.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:07] MootBot: [09:07] #help [09:07] #startmeeting [09:07] hmmm [09:09] siretart: according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot #startmeeting sould work [09:09] #endmeeting [09:10] dholbach: in other meetings I've seen MootBot actually doing some answers [09:10] yeah [09:10] so there seems to be a bit more magic behind it [09:10] or it's broken === ytojack [n=ytojack@59.35.241.188] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bryce_ [n=bryce@c-67-169-207-142.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@p54A640B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-121-166.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === nixternal_ 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[n=lure@212.103.157.87] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Shely [n=Sea@60.20.50.116] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === luka74 [n=lure@external-1.hermes.si] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === avoine [n=avoine@69.70.0.36] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [03:57] @schedule [03:57] Schedule for Etc/UTC: 24 Sep 19:00: Screencast Team | 25 Sep 15:00: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 16:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00: Desktop Team Development [04:01] !UTC [04:01] Sorry, I don't know anything about utc - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi === hoora [i=hoora@gateway/tor/x-3d6c42e3f136a8c1] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Lure [n=lure@89-212-18-142.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === astro76 [n=james@unaffiliated/astro76] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freeflying [n=freeflyi@123.116.99.213] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Zic [n=Zic@ubuntu/member/zic] has joined 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#ubuntu-meeting === hoora [i=hoora@gateway/tor/x-3975abba6a4797ac] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Paddy_EIRE [n=patrick@89.240.241.165] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tehk_ [n=tehk@c-69-249-157-157.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tehk [n=tehk@c-69-249-157-157.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === avoine [n=avoine@193.231-ppp.3menatwork.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === iGadget [n=matthijs@h36214.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:03] hi [08:03] so the meeting is in 1 hr? === iGadget thought he was living in the GMT+1 area === iGadget looks at the clock [08:04] 20:00 [08:04] ohwell :) [08:05] guess I'll just stick around === Lure_ [n=lure@89-212-18-142.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === tonyyarusso [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ian_brasil [n=ian@dasasob.nokia.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:25] :) [08:25] yes iGadget, it's 20:00 for the screencast meeting [08:25] 20:00 UK time [08:25] gah @ timezones [08:26] popey: np, I'll stick around ;) [08:28] I guess it's the daylight-saving-time-stuff that's making global coordination troublesome again ;) [08:28] Here ya go: [08:28] http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=900,24,136,195,438 [08:29] You can customize it for whatever timezones you want to look at. [08:31] popey: date --utc also works === tehk [n=tehk@c-69-249-157-157.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:32] Vaelen, zul: perhaps those are nice tips for the meeting page... === Mez_ [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:36] Sorry for a very newbie question, but which meeting is going to take place at 20:00 UTC? I'm supposed to attend the next Kubuntu meeting, but I'm having a hard time figuring out when that is going to be, exactly. === spd106 [n=stephen@host86-137-228-1.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:38] Vaelen: next meeting is about screencasts [08:38] Oh hey, maybe I should read the channel topic next time. :P [08:38] Vaelen: there is no meeting at 20:00 today [08:38] Vaelen: the next kubuntu meeting should be on the first wednesday of next month [08:38] Riddell: yes there is [08:38] Riddell: Ok, cool. What time do you normally have them? [08:38] just not about kubuntu ;) [08:38] Vaelen: what are you attending for? [08:39] Vaelen: whenever is most convenient for people [08:39] I added something to the agenda after talking about it in #kubuntu-devel for a while. === bryce_ [n=bryce@c-67-169-207-142.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === iGadget will be right back === bryce_ [n=bryce@c-67-169-207-142.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bryce_ [n=bryce@c-67-169-207-142.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:00] Bong! [09:00] Screencast Team meeting starts [09:00] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Meeting20070924 [09:00] short agenda for today :) [09:01] anyone here for the meeting? [09:01] I'm here again === bryce_ [n=bryce@c-67-169-207-142.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:01] yay === iGadget here :) [09:02] * Action points from last meeting [09:02] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Meeting20070910 [09:02] hmm, most of that will become part of the next item, so will just jump to it [09:02] * Current status [09:02] We are behind again :( [09:03] I blame 3 things:- [09:03] 1. Having two children whose birthdays are in september [09:03] 2. Having a week holiday [09:03] 3. Me being lazy ;) [09:04] So it looks like I won't be able to make 20 more screencasts before the end of the month to take us from the last one (10) to the 30th [09:04] So I suggest that instead I will carry on making them, numbering them 11-30 but releasing them when they're ready [09:04] Which means the month of screencasts lasts for about 2 months [09:04] which is of course disappointing [09:05] but it was a mad plan anyway [09:05] I would rather continue to make high quality screencasts than churn out 20 small ones of low quality [09:05] I agree [09:05] how does that sound? [09:05] should I put an announcement on the site? [09:06] we have already had people asking in comments about when the next ones will be out, where they are, what has happened.. [09:06] I have one that I made today that I will upload tomorrow, I propose uloading then posting a comment afterwards detailing the revised plan [09:06] sounds like a plan [09:06] we have also lost Andrew Gee which is a resource less for making screencasts [09:06] which doesn't help === iGadget coughs === hoora [i=hoora@gateway/tor/x-0fc3ba3afaa5395c] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:07] Ok, I will publish this next one "Updates & Upgrades" tomorrow and put an announcement in [09:07] yeah, I also need to upload some of the queue that built up [09:07] Alan, there's a chance I'll have to step down as well :( [09:07] oh dear [09:07] Allthough I haven't contributed that much yet [09:08] heh :) [09:08] Hey, I'm happy to get any contributions at all, no pressure on anyone [09:08] It's not like the screencasts are going to delay the release of Ubuntu :) [09:08] (not this release anyway ;) [09:08] I am pragmatic if nothing else [09:09] I need to also look at revising the plan now I am back from holiday [09:09] I shall mail the list with the plan I had and see if we can get a discussion going on what screencasts people want [09:09] or maybe ask on the site? [09:09] Perhaps both? [09:09] Post a message asking for requests as comments? [09:09] yeah, good idea [09:10] Are we going to use 7.10 for all screencasts? [09:10] good question [09:10] yes and no [09:10] the updates & upgrades one I did today uses dapper, edgy, feisty and gutsy :) [09:10] for the most part 7.10 would seem like a good target [09:10] It's just the background in Gutsy changed recently [09:10] as it will soon be released, so it means the screencasts are "relavent" [09:10] yeah, i noticed that today :) [09:10] these things will happen [09:11] it's an improvement, though [09:11] on all screencasts that feature gutsy I do try to mention that its based on a development release [09:11] And I don't expect gutsy to change _that_ much between now and oct 19th [09:11] 18th [09:11] a few cosmetic things isn't a major deal [09:12] maybe it's a bit far off, but should we focus on moving to 8.04 as soon as it's usable, since it'll be an LTS? [09:12] heheh [09:12] it won't be usable until the end of the year :) [09:12] at least [09:12] okay, too far off then ;) [09:12] in my experience the delta between one release and the next is actually pretty small [09:13] if you compare dapper and gutsy there's quite a difference, but compare edgy and feisty and the difference is much less [09:13] there are changes of course, and we should be aware of them [09:13] It's not like we'll be using KDE 4 [09:13] but I don't think we should fret about it too much [09:13] no, indeed [09:13] ok, that's current status [09:13] what about (I'm brainstorming here)... 'scripting' the screencasts so they can be redone easily in another version? [09:13] they are _kinda_ scripted === bryce_ [n=bryce@c-67-169-207-142.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:14] but not too much [09:14] you mean a storyboard type thing? [09:14] no, I mean an automated kind of thing [09:14] oh [09:14] I don't know if it's possible [09:14] me neither [09:14] would it be worth investigating? [09:14] worth a thought, yes [09:15] sorry, i was thinking then :) [09:15] np, I'm a slow reader ;) [09:15] will note that and we could have a chat on the list about it [09:15] g o o d [09:15] any questions/comments about the curent status? [09:16] * Month Of Screencasts 2007 progress [09:16] 10 of 30 complete, to be 11 of 30 tomorrow [09:16] more ideas needed - as mentioned [09:17] will mail the list and canvas opinion on the site [09:17] blimey, that's it [09:17] fastest meeting ever [09:17] any further questions, comments or points you guys want to talk about [09:17] geez... and it's my first :) [09:17] we have some time [09:18] ok === iGadget thinks [09:18] Where's the MoS schedule again? I've lost it [09:19] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MonthOfScreencasts [09:19] Oh yeah [09:19] :) [09:19] i should be uploading two tomorrow [09:20] assuming I get a nice quiet house to work in :S [09:20] (which is a big issue here - screaming babies in the background of a screencast don't sound good) :) [09:20] Matthew Rossi asked if we could have a meeting that was at a time when he could attend - he is in Aus [09:21] so he ideally wanted one on a weekend [09:21] just a suggestion about meeting on IRC... you guys know mebeam.com? [09:21] I didn't, but I do now [09:22] thing about irc is that it has a very low barrier to entry [09:22] many of the web conferencing systems require flash, a webcam, a mic etc [09:22] true, if you're a good typist ;) [09:22] Do you need a camera? [09:22] looks like it [09:22] for mebeam.com, you do yes [09:22] That'll be tricky then [09:23] it reduces the potential people who could join I guess? [09:23] given every other team meets on irc.. [09:23] okay, perhaps that's too much then. But what about audio converencing? [09:23] iGadget: interesting point [09:23] the Ubuntu-UK loco team are looking at using asterisk [09:23] to do call conferencing via SIP or something [09:24] I figure most people involved in screencasts would have a mic... ;) [09:24] needs a mic and a reasonable net connection === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:24] heh :) [09:24] the problem with all the video/audio conferences is logging though [09:24] i can easily copy/paste this log into the wiki, job done [09:24] true, true [09:24] with the audio/video ones someone has to transcribe it [09:24] SIP: ^ anybody wanna help test? [09:24] heh :) [09:25] I will test with you another time yes Daviey :) [09:25] for those that don't know, Daviey is the expert on Asterisk around here [09:25] and voip in general [09:25] cool [09:25] 'expert' hmm :P === iGadget should get his audio setup working first ;) [09:25] What about a SIP screencast Davey? [09:26] heh [09:26] hehe :) [09:26] we have that scheduled actually [09:26] Isn't there already an ekiga screencast? [09:26] one all about voip [09:26] not one of ours no Daviey [09:26] i was thinking something more general, not necessarily just ekiga [09:26] ekiga would be nice... since it's already shipping with ubuntu [09:26] agreed [09:26] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MonthOfScreencasts [09:26] (never got it working, though) [09:26] ^ look at the bottom of that page :) [09:26] okay, will do [09:26] "ekiga" :) [09:27] just needs someone to make it :) === iGadget should check the page more often [09:27] you could subscribe to it :) [09:27] Well i'm not sure how much you could cover.. Would either need to be reallly high level - or pretty lowlevel (technical and ~20mins) [09:28] 30 mins isn't unreasonable [09:28] i made a 40 min one today :) [09:28] eager beaver [09:28] anyway, can I just get the next meeting date out of the way [09:28] I propose the weekend of the 13th october [09:28] to allow the aussies to join in [09:28] thats over 2 weeks away [09:29] but with our slim agenda I don't think that's an issue? [09:29] I have one proposal about subtitles, if we're done with the SIP thing :) [09:29] go ahead [09:29] there are a lot of subs now that are on screen for less than 2 secs now [09:29] thats _really_ fast [09:30] most people I checked can't read that fast [09:30] hmm, I talk too fast? [09:30] maybe [09:30] yep [09:30] but what I usually do is merge two subs together [09:30] in most cases, that's enough [09:30] It's either short time or they take up too much screen space [09:30] indeed, that does occur [09:30] so it would be better if I talk slower, say less? [09:30] leave big gaps :) [09:31] especially in languages that need 'more space' :) [09:31] heh [09:31] like Deutsch? [09:31] Did you guys find a solution to multi-audio track? [09:31] like nederlands ;) [09:31] ahhh [09:31] deutsch probably as well [09:31] Daviey: ogg does support multiple audio tracks [09:31] but the problem is we would have to keep remastering every time someone made a new audio track [09:31] and re-encode [09:32] and they would bloat up with multiple languages on board [09:32] it would be very sweet if we could figure out a way to do that smoothly [09:32] likely easier to keep them separate [09:32] mmmkay... true [09:32] ok iGadget and spd106 I will endeavour to speak slower [09:32] and leave some pauses for text [09:32] sorry about that [09:32] no prob, we all live and learn ;) [09:32] indeed [09:32] The applications screencast was particularly bad [09:32] this is exactly why we have these meetings :) [09:33] precisely :) [09:33] because there is a lot in it done very quickly? [09:33] yes, too much really [09:33] ok [09:33] I will bear that in mind for future screencasts [09:33] one problem I worry about is that if I go to slow it might get boring [09:33] It was still very good [09:33] people might nod off [09:34] it's okay spd106 I can take it ;) [09:34] Well it's quite easy to see - if you're making english subtitles which are on screen less that 2 seconds, that's suspicious [09:34] haha [09:35] usually that's too fast [09:35] like small print on a tv advert [09:35] ghehe... something like that ;) [09:35] "Warning, the value of your house may go down as well as up,..." [09:35] ok, point taken, will fix that in future ones [09:35] * toll free number, only connection charges apply ($10,-) [09:35] lucky we're only 1/3rd the way through then :) [09:35] :) [09:36] Did you get the flash streaming working? [09:36] the subtitles in the flash streaming? [09:36] yes [09:36] no, not yet [09:36] but I haven't spent much time on that [09:36] ok [09:36] will do though [09:37] Don't spend too much on that, it can be sorted out later [09:37] sure [09:37] I spent too long on it the week before holiday [09:37] will concentrate on making the screencasts for now [09:37] so... what about the long term - how are we going to keep track on screencasts that are no longer acurate and need to be updated? [09:38] well iGadget that's a very good point# [09:38] the one I made today in effect replaces one I made a year ago [09:38] and the installing one supplements the installation one I did a year ago too [09:38] deja vu [09:38] I guess I could put a note on the old ones "obsolete - please see this screencast" with a link to the newer ones [09:38] perhaps it would be a good idea to mention which ubuntu versions are affected by the screencast? [09:38] the ones this year are more comprehensive though [09:39] in the screencast itself? [09:39] i try to tag them on the site [09:39] http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/43 <- only gutsy ones [09:39] Tag them with Ubuntu release or just the date? [09:39] maybe both :) [09:39] http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/35 only dapper [09:39] there might be screencasts which can last for ages [09:40] like the one about free software [09:40] yeah [09:40] other ones can become obsolete in the next version, there's no way to be sure in advance I guess [09:40] indeed [09:40] New ones every six months [09:40] although to be fair the ones about dapper are still accurate [09:40] dapper is a current supported release === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:41] there is a wider plan here [09:41] don't know if I explained previously did I? [09:41] to put screencasts directly in ubuntu [09:41] On the DVD? [09:41] not sure yet, probably online, streamed [09:41] so you can go to Help --> Videos in any app [09:42] sweet! [09:42] and get a window come up with a selection of videos [09:42] that would need some major management [09:42] that would surely beat the crap out of MS online support [09:42] and all the stuff we are learning about during MoS can feed into this [09:42] so the feedback I get from you guys is great [09:42] it's still an early plan [09:43] but... that will require massive amounts of work [09:43] yup :) [09:43] do we have enough manpower to do this? [09:43] they would be short videos [09:43] seconds or minutes long [09:43] It's more online integration too [09:43] showing how to do specific tasks === airjump [n=MZ@p508AC547.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:43] yeah, needs a lot of work [09:43] which... can be combined to create entire screencasts? === asac_ [n=asac@debian/developer/asac] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:43] yeah, watch them all back to back [09:43] :) [09:44] a 'lego' sort of screencast-building? nice :) [09:44] yeah, I like the building blocks analogy [09:44] they could be tagged and rated [09:44] Going back to the scripting thought... would festival be any use? [09:44] festival the text to speech thing? [09:44] yeah [09:44] useful for? [09:45] automating screencast [09:45] I don't know. how do you mean? [09:45] my idea about scripting was about the visual part only, but if festival is good? [09:45] I haven't played with it yet [09:45] It cuts the work down a little [09:46] yes, but if it cuts down the quality too much, I'm not sure if it's an improvement... [09:46] the audiotrack is key to getting the user involved IMHO [09:46] you mean, get festival to "read" the script? [09:46] Yes [09:46] ahhh [09:46] is festival any good? :) [09:47] i haven't tried it for some time [09:47] No idea, just read about it recently [09:47] to be honest the audio part is not that time consuming [09:47] do you know radiohead's 'OK computer'? ;) [09:47] its prep, recording the video and editing it that takes the time [09:47] the audio takes about as long as the video is in length [09:47] if I make a 40 min video the audio takes 40 mins to make (roughly) [09:48] but it takes 2+hours to make a 30 min video [09:48] so I guess we'd gain much more time in getting the video part smoothed out.. right? [09:49] yeah, and that's not easy [09:49] some of it is planning - figuring out what I am going to video.. [09:49] besides of automated scripting making re-recording a lot easier, could it help save time in the initial recording process? [09:49] some of it is videoing [09:50] i doubt it would help much to be honest [09:50] one day I will create the "how to make a screencast, screencast" that people keep asking me for [09:50] You could then run a competition for the final screencast [09:50] well, if you really want users to assist you, I suppose that one has a top priority... [09:51] iGadget: i have written it up on the wiki :) [09:51] I am not sure this is the thing that stops people [09:51] people know how to create them [09:51] eh... [09:51] I am not sure that "knowing how to create a screencast" is what stops people making them [09:51] they know how to make them, but they don't have the time to do it? [09:51] I don't, but I'm just plain lazy besides having way to little time, so nevermind me ;) [09:51] it's quicker/easier to make a wiki page then a screencast [09:52] exactly :) [09:52] nothing wrong with that, that's just the problem we have [09:52] people don't have time to commit to something like this [09:52] Would you accept lower res screencasts? [09:52] 1024x768 is all I have [09:52] which I why I am glad that I can get on and make them and you guys can transcribe/translate them [09:52] I thought 1024x768 was okay? [09:52] for non-mos2007, yes, definately [09:53] we already have some at 1024x768 [09:53] eh... what's mos2007? [09:53] Month Of Screencast 2007 [09:53] :) === iGadget bangs himself on the head [09:53] darn... stupid :) [09:53] sorry [09:53] i.e. if it's "just" a screencast, not specifically for MoS, then yes, 1024x768 is great [09:53] np [09:53] silly acronym [09:54] the only reason is that I specifically wanted 30 high quality, high res ones [09:54] That's what I thought [09:54] if you see the front page of the site there are 3 that are 1024x768 :) === mayeco [n=mayeco@mayeco-kubuntu.cpe.cableonda.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:54] what's important is consistent quality [09:55] but... If we are going to start with this building-block thing, then we should agree on one res only, right? [09:55] oh that's not coming for a while :) [09:55] i wouldn't start thinking too seriously about that until about November :) [09:55] (after UDS Boston) :) [09:55] okay... so what about smoothing the creation process, would that be doable? [09:56] working with the istanbul team for example? [09:56] I mean, making the creating process much simpler and less time consuming? [09:56] yeah, I had a meeting with jono about this.. he had some ideas about this subject [09:56] he suggested a screencasting application [09:57] ghehe... his Next Big Thing after Jokosher? :D [09:57] one that gave you a window inside which you have a nested session or something [09:57] heh [09:57] and recorded it [09:57] iGadget: oi! :) [09:57] there are already tools that can do this but they are non free [09:57] jono! :D [09:57] and anyway I don't think this would shave massive amounts off the time [09:57] it would make it easier, thats for sure [09:58] one sec, brb [09:58] we're running out of time [09:58] I will bring all these things up on the list for further discussion [09:58] so we can get the ideas fleshed out [09:58]