[03:29] <rjian> hello beuno
[04:01] <melare1> Hello?
[04:02] <melare1> I'm looking for some feedback on an idea
[04:06] <rjian> melare1: idea on what?
[04:06] <melare1> Ok, I was just waiting to see if anyone was going to respond.
[04:07] <melare1> Well I was just talking to some people on the artwork IRC channel...
[04:07] <melare1> Ok, so I've been following the artwork discussion for a while (regarding the much disputed wallpaper)...
[04:07] <melare1> I understand the argument that the people on the forums (and members of the Digg community) may not be representative of the whole.  ...or at least they may not be Ubuntu's target market.  
[04:07] <melare1> However I also think that it is very important that we do not upset these people.  ...many of these are very loyal Ubuntu followers.
[04:07] <melare1> Anyway, I guess the question is, who is our target market?  Are we working to get any feedback\input from them?
[04:08] <melare1> So I fee that the artwork team needs some direction.  ...and the people making the decisions don't seem too keen on listening to the people on the forums.
[04:10] <melare1> So what if we did a focus group thing...
[04:10] <melare1> or we could go to a university campus and poll.
[04:11] <melare1> These would be people that aren't a part of the project, and would have no reason to be biased.
[04:15] <melare1> For example, let's say the artwork team started collaborating with the marketing team (I know this might be wishful thinking).  ...so the artwork team creates some wallpaper.  The marketing team takes these prototypes, add a couple of controls, and ask people to rate each piece.  We do this in several geographic regions to get a good mix and then we pass on the results to the higher-ups.
[04:16] <melare1> Is anyone there?
[04:41] <BHSPitMonkey> melare1, I am?
[04:41] <BHSPitMonkey> oh, wait, you mean somebody with a say.  :)
[04:41] <melare1> Hello :)
[04:41] <melare1> yes..
[04:42] <BHSPitMonkey> ping jenda or someone :)
[04:42] <BHSPitMonkey> or MenZa perhaps?
[04:42] <melare1> you mean open up a private chat message or what?
[04:43] <BHSPitMonkey> no, I mean do what I just did and highlight them ;)
[04:43] <BHSPitMonkey> melare1, I'm with a university lug, by the way
[04:44] <melare1> BHSPitMonkey, hehe
[04:44] <melare1> Did that work?
[04:44] <BHSPitMonkey> did what work?
[04:45] <melare1> How do you direct a conversation to a person?  Sorry, I'm new at this...
[04:46] <BHSPitMonkey> melare1, saying someone's nick causes a highlight, yes
[04:46] <melare1> BHSPitMonkey, Hehe, ok.
[04:47] <melare1> jenda, I was wondering if I could get your feedback on an idea I posted here on the IRC channel.
[04:49] <BHSPitMonkey> the idea doesn't really account for the fact that the higher-ups will just throw out the results
[04:49] <BHSPitMonkey> they really don't care
[04:50] <melare1> Yeah, I thought about that.  We would have to get them to cooperate, which sounds...  ...difficult.
[04:50] <BHSPitMonkey> reasoning has been tried
[04:51] <melare1> Has it always been like this?  And is it like this with every issue, or are they just stubborn with the artwork?
[04:51] <BHSPitMonkey> sabdfl is just really, really not interested in the community opinion on artwork
[04:52] <melare1> But it is better in the other areas?
[04:53] <BHSPitMonkey> such as?
[04:53] <melare1> People submitting ideas for UI changes or feature additions.
[04:54] <BHSPitMonkey> well, most of that comes from upstream anyway...
[04:54] <BHSPitMonkey> gnome
[04:54] <melare1> ahh
[04:56] <melare1> What about the guy Mark hired for the artwork, how much say does he have?  Does he listen to suggestions?
[04:59] <melare1> MenZa, You there?
[05:22] <nothlit> kwwii doesn't have any control really either
[05:33] <KurtKraut> Where can I find OO Presentation templates with Ubuntu logo ? There used to be some templates in wiki.ubuntu.com but I can't find it anymore.
[06:19] <tonyyarusso> Any of y'all awake to give some feedback on a LoCo-related e-mail text?
[06:32] <BHSPitMonkey> hmm?
[06:32] <BHSPitMonkey> tonyyarusso, what does that imply? :)
[06:33] <tonyyarusso> BHSPitMonkey: just let me know what you think of this / any improvements to it: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38518/
[06:34] <BHSPitMonkey> that's a lot of text
[06:34] <tonyyarusso> yeah well
[06:34] <BHSPitMonkey> s/each other/one another/
[06:35] <BHSPitMonkey> there's two periods ending that sentence too
[06:35] <BHSPitMonkey> s/collecting/the collection of/
[06:36] <tonyyarusso> changed and changed
[06:38] <BHSPitMonkey> s/this hardware/these donations/
[06:39] <BHSPitMonkey> also, you switch tense while describing the "scheme"
[06:40] <tonyyarusso> grr - I do that a lot
[06:41] <tonyyarusso> BHSPitMonkey: um, how do I fix that intelligently?
[06:42] <BHSPitMonkey> "With this hardware, we intend to..."
[06:42] <BHSPitMonkey> "The computers would then be..."
[06:43] <tonyyarusso> got those
[06:43] <BHSPitMonkey> s/paying for expensive/paying expensive/
[06:44] <tonyyarusso> Madpilot: we're talking about http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38518/ btw
[06:44] <Madpilot> looking for editing advice?
[06:44] <BHSPitMonkey> s/being assured of the security of your data without paying for that either/ensure the security of your discarded data/
[06:45] <BHSPitMonkey> s/knowing/know/
[06:45] <tonyyarusso> Madpilot: yup
[06:45] <Madpilot> I'm good at that. Ruthless, though.
[06:45] <tonyyarusso> hehe
[06:45] <Madpilot> line 15 - "One of the projects..." should be the start of a new paragraph.
[06:45] <BHSPitMonkey> s/as the respective/as well as their respective/
[06:46] <Madpilot> line 19 & onward - first you talk about data destruction, then the actual point - switch those around
[06:46] <BHSPitMonkey> I'll let Madpilot take it from here
[06:47] <tonyyarusso> BHSPitMonkey: that ones not "and their licenses", as another item, but more "IFF their licenses allow you to - did you bother to read them?"
[06:48] <Madpilot> Nobody reads clickthru EULAs, and nobody but geeks reads software licences, so the answer is "No."
[06:48] <tonyyarusso> exactly
[06:48] <tonyyarusso> Which is why I thought I'd hilight the fact that they can't keep software that has an OEM license only.
[06:49] <Madpilot> don't bother. It's a distraction from your actual point, which is "Give us hardware!"
[06:50] <tonyyarusso> ok
[06:50] <tonyyarusso> The legality is their responsibility anyway
[06:50] <Madpilot> that too
[06:52] <Madpilot> that huge opening paragraph needs to be at least three paragraphs, really.
[06:52] <Madpilot> break it at ln15, "One of the..." and again around 19. 
[06:52] <Madpilot> 1st para: who we are & give us stuff
[06:53] <Madpilot> 2nd: what we want to do with your stuff
[06:53] <Madpilot> 3rd: why giving us your stuff is a great idea
[06:54] <Madpilot> basic rule of writing: one idea per paragraph.
[06:55] <rjian> helo everyone hehe
[06:55] <tonyyarusso> right - although with the way my sentences go, and the kind of paragraph length that makes sense for e-mail, it ends up being one idea per sentence and one sentence per paragraph.  My writing is better suited for essay-style paragraph lengths, that are between 1/3 and 1/2 of the page.
[06:56] <tonyyarusso> (printed)
[06:56] <Madpilot> nothing wrong with single-sentence paragraphs, esp, (as you point out) in email.
[06:57] <tonyyarusso> all right - I'll just cringe a little and do that then
[06:58] <melare1> Can I get some feedback on an idea?  ...I tried earlier, but there really wasn't a response.
[07:06] <tonyyarusso> Madpilot: How about this now?  http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/38519/
[07:07] <Madpilot> good. I'd ditch the "for your peace of mind" bit on 45 as excess verbiage, but leave it if you like it.
[07:09] <tonyyarusso> makes sense
[07:12] <melare1> BHSPitMonkey, is there anyone else I could try talking to?
[07:19] <BHSPitMonkey> melare1, just start up a forum thread
[07:24] <melare1> BHSPitMonkey, ...doesn't seem like a forum thread would attract any worthwhile attention.  This is just my impression, having viewed the process for a while.
[07:28] <BHSPitMonkey> melare1, forum threads are the means of process here
[01:43] <juliux> jenda, ping
[01:43] <popey> katkin: ping
[01:46] <katkin> popey: pong
[01:46] <popey> hi
[01:46] <juliux> hi katkin popey 
[01:46] <popey> how do you want me to get this popup stand thing back to you?
[01:47] <popey> I say "this" it's actually still at Alan Cox's house right now, I'll have to go and pick it up
[01:47] <popey> er, not Alan Cox, Alan Cocks
[01:47] <popey> d'oh
[01:48] <katkin> popey: it needs to go to Pepper
[01:48] <popey> Pepper?
[03:26] <jenda> juliux: pong
[03:27] <juliux> hey jenda 
[03:27] <juliux> how are you?
[03:27] <jenda> busy :)
[03:27] <jenda> writing a general introduction to a book about Ubuntu that's about to be released here.
[03:28] <juliux> cool
[03:28] <juliux> do you have any news about lanyards?
[03:46] <jenda> juliux: nope, none
[03:47] <juliux> ok
[03:47] <jenda> juliux: my printer has been less than perfect wrt communication.
[03:47] <juliux> i think we will make them then in germany
[03:47] <jenda> ok
[05:06] <johnc4510> @schedule Phoenix
[11:31] <boredandblogging> please digg: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Weekly_Newsletter_58