[02:07] <zul> evening
[02:45] <bddebian> Heya gang
[03:20] <bddebian> Gads, we need python-gammu synced from Debian but I'm way to over UVFe requests.. :-(
[03:23] <StevenK> bddebian: Rationale?
[03:23] <StevenK> bddebian: And are there any Ubuntu changes?
[03:24] <bddebian> StevenK: wammu was brought in but needs python-gammu >= 0.21 and we currently have 0.20
[03:24] <bddebian> No, no changes, straight sync
[03:25] <bddebian> Though I haven't test built it yet
[03:25] <StevenK> bddebian: Test build and install it, and I'll talk to pitti about it.
[03:25] <bddebian> OK
[03:31] <bddebian> Fruck, it needs libgammu-dev >= 1.12.. Grrr
[04:29] <begert> anyone here use kubuntu?
[04:31] <begert> can you use the swarm screensaver?
[04:31] <nixternal> dunno, let me try
[04:32] <begert> I have fiesty on my desktop and gutsy on my laptop
[04:32] <begert> I can select swarm and Test it in both, but it doesn't seem to actually work in either
[04:32] <nixternal> yes I can...but I am on gutsy
[04:33] <begert> I have that no my laptop, does the screensaver actually start for you though?
[04:33] <nixternal> yes
[04:33] <begert> *on
[04:34] <begert> hmmm, strange....its odd that that is the only screensaver broke on both my installs
[05:17] <RAOF> LongPointyStick: Prod
[05:17] <ajmitch> dangerous move
[05:17] <RAOF> Heh.
[05:18] <RAOF> Anyway, today's alternate CD very nearly works :)
[05:18] <Fujitsu> RAOF: What of it doesn't work?
[05:18] <RAOF> LVM-on-crypt
[05:19] <RAOF> pitti's bug is not restricted to auto-partition :)
[05:19] <Fujitsu> Ah, well, I'm using yesterday's... it's not particularly difficult to stick break=mount at the end.
[05:20] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: does gutsy support encrypted partitions from the installer?
[05:20] <RAOF> Yes.
[05:20] <tonyyarusso> yay
[05:20] <tonyyarusso> I wonder why the spec for that didn't show any activity or status.
[05:20] <RAOF> This laptop is running such a setup right now.
[05:21] <tonyyarusso> I guess it wasn't necessary since upstream d-i had it?
[05:24] <StevenK> tonyyarusso: It still required promotion of stuff from universe to main and other fun things
[05:24] <tonyyarusso> StevenK: hmm, odd then
[05:28] <pwnguin> ScottK: any work on desmume uve?
[05:28] <pwnguin> err
[05:28] <pwnguin> word
[05:28] <pwnguin> freudian slip
[05:29] <ScottK> Anything in the bug?
[05:32] <pwnguin> is it waiting on siertart?
[05:35] <ScottK> From my perspective yes, but there are other motu-uvf that might feel differently.
[05:35] <ScottK> He was on earlier and I mentioned your interest.
[05:35] <pwnguin> I saw that. He also said he was unqualified to answer =/
[05:36] <ScottK> I'm inclined not to approve it then.  It's a big jump to make this late.  Others may feel differntly.
[05:36] <pwnguin> fair enough
[05:37] <pwnguin> what exactly is the worry though?
[05:37] <pwnguin> neither version is close to perfect
[05:38] <ScottK> It's a big version jump late in the game, so I worry about bugs causing regression from what Feisty had.
[05:39] <pwnguin> the activity in the bug tracker is near empty, likely because nobody expects this to work.
[05:39] <pwnguin> what feisty has barely works. what's in my ppa barely works better -- its sort of the start of emulators
[05:40] <ScottK> OK.
[05:40] <ScottK> That's good to know.
[05:40] <ScottK> Please put that in the bug and then let me know.
[05:40] <pwnguin> that it works better, or that console emulators are often buggy?
[05:41] <ScottK> That it works better, but is still an early release that's not expected to be fully functional either, so regression shouldn't be a big worry.
[05:41] <ScottK> That sort of thing.
[05:42] <pwnguin> i see
[05:51] <bddebian> Gnight folks
[05:51] <RAOF> Night bddebian
[05:52] <pwnguin> is popcon reliable at all?
[05:54] <RAOF> Not as far as I've heard.
[05:55] <pwnguin> in what way is it unreliable?
[06:02] <pwnguin> actually, the changelog in the debian package has siretart mentioned as recently as september 4th
[06:02] <minghua> It's voluntary, and not installed/enabled by default, so it's by no means representative.
[06:02] <pwnguin> so its working as intended
[06:02] <pwnguin> but people often use the results in unintended ways
[06:03] <minghua> So we are talking about the reliability of the software instead of the data gathered?
[06:05] <pwnguin> well, ive heard people tell me its _broken_
[06:08] <pwnguin> i agree the data collected currently would be biased
[06:12] <minghua> It won't surprise me if the package in ubuntu is broken.
[06:12] <minghua> At least the website, popcon.ubuntu.com, is still half broken.
[06:13] <pwnguin> orly?
[06:14] <minghua> It surprises me that ubuntu's popcon site claims more than three times larger installation base than debian's, though.
[06:14] <minghua> pwnguin: Yeah, click the README and FAQ link, for example.
[06:14] <pwnguin> cute
[06:14] <pwnguin> well, i recall one release asking people if they wanted to participate in popcon
[06:14] <pwnguin> i dont think debian does that
[06:15] <minghua> Debian does since etch.
[06:16] <pwnguin> i havent installed debian since woody
[06:16] <pwnguin> =/
[06:16] <pwnguin> longest stable evar
[06:24] <pwnguin> near the end people started making debian shirts that said "good things come to those who wait" -- I'll never know as i tried out ubuntu and never looked back about six months before sarge released
[06:28] <minghua> pwnguin: Interesting story.  I think I started using Ubuntu roughly the same time as you did, but my main distro is Debian now.
[06:28] <pwnguin> it was wierd, seeing xorg and gnome move quickly
[06:30] <tonyyarusso> pwnguin: did you run stable releases or dev?
[06:30] <pwnguin> heh
[06:30] <pwnguin> i ran stable for a couple months
[06:30] <pwnguin> then my friend enlightened me
[06:31] <pwnguin> hellish upgrade though
[06:31] <pwnguin> 1.4 -> 2.0 i think
[06:31] <pwnguin> still, even unstable ran behind
[06:38] <pwnguin> also, it's pretty nice to be able to run a relatively modern desktop without worrying who screwed up an upload to unstable
[06:40] <pwnguin> now i run gutsy voluntarily, so it couldnt have been all that bad ;)
[06:41] <StevenK> Where is KDE's Prefered Applications settings done?
[06:41] <StevenK> I'm sick of Thunderbird opening Konquerer when I click on a link, when I have a perfectly good Firefox running.
[06:42] <minghua> Why would thunderbird observe KDE's preferred applications setting?
[06:42] <minghua> I would expect thunderbird can set that by itself.
[06:43] <StevenK> I just thought that.
[06:50] <RAOF> Oh.  There's a trap for the incautious (ie: me).  The rsync command I used to backup my $HOME didn't include any hidden directories.  Arse.
[06:50] <TheMuso> RAOF: heh
[06:51] <StevenK> IE: The ones that start with '.'? :-)
[06:55] <jdong> RAOF: what kind of rsync command didn't?
[06:55] <jdong> rsync -avx --progress ~/. /destination/. is what I always use
[06:58] <RAOF> jdong: rsync -avxP * destination:Backup/
[06:58] <jdong> oh.
[06:58] <jdong> the * does you in.
[06:58] <jdong> doesn't match dotfiles
[06:58] <jdong> you should've used . instead
[06:58] <jdong> that would've recursively did everything :(
[06:58] <RAOF> Indeed.
[06:58] <jdong> sorry you had to suffer through that
[06:59] <RAOF> Eh, not much of a biggie.
[06:59] <RAOF> Where's mr telepathy?  Is he aware that telepathy-butterfly just doesn't work?
[06:59] <Amaranth> hrm, i think i messed up my finger
[07:00] <RAOF> It's no longer scanning correctly?
[07:00] <Amaranth> it was stiff so i popped it, now it's all tingly
[07:00] <Amaranth> makes it weird to type
[07:00] <RAOF> That's not a good prize.
[07:16] <TheMuso> Wow. I seem to be getting a few timeout errors today with LP.
[07:17] <superm1> me too.
[07:17] <superm1> TheMuso, on edge?
[07:17] <superm1> or production
[07:17] <TheMuso> superm1: Edge, I am a beta tester.
[07:17] <superm1> okay me too.
[07:17] <superm1> perhaps just a lot of beta users right now then :)
[07:55] <wintermu1e> can anyone offer some help as to how I would go about submitting a patch to the right people for the network-manager-vpnc package?
[07:55] <superm1> hi wintermu1e file a bug against the source package
[07:55] <superm1> and attach the patch to it
[07:56] <wintermu1e> do I need an account to file a bug?
[07:56] <superm1> yeah
[07:56] <superm1> its a pretty quick and painless process to do though
[08:14] <wintermu1e> where would the svn/cvs be for network-manager-vpnc?
[08:15] <superm1> http://svn.gnome.org/svn/NetworkManager/branches/NETWORKMANAGER_0_6_0_RELEASE/vpn-daemons/vpnc
[08:15] <superm1> according to debian/copyright, that is where its obtained from
[08:15] <wintermu1e> oh nice, didn't think it would be in the copright
[08:16] <lifeless> debian/copyright is really debian/metadata
[08:16] <superm1> soren is the main person to talk about network-manager-vpnc i would gander though if you want someone experienced with its packaging to look over your patch
[08:17] <wintermu1e> well, actually I haven't written the patch yet.  I wanted to see if its already been fixed in svn first and find out who to talk to
[08:18] <superm1> oh okay
[08:18] <superm1> well if its fixed in svn, file a bug still and note that its fixed in svn
[08:18] <superm1> and one of us motu folk will be glad to pull the patch in
[08:18] <pwnguin> but do make sure you look at the main branch
[08:18] <pwnguin> and not the release tag we pulled for the current version
[08:19] <superm1> yeah, that is just the branch we pulled from
[08:19] <superm1> hi asisak
[08:19] <pwnguin> "hmm, they havent done a damn thing in six months!"
[08:19] <asisak> Good morning
[08:19] <wintermu1e> not sure what you mean by "the branch we pulled from"
[08:20] <superm1> hi asisak
[08:20] <pwnguin> svn is often used to keep "branches" of code
[08:20] <asisak> Hey superm1
[08:20] <pwnguin> you branch the current development tree, and call it like version 0.6.0
[08:21] <pwnguin> thats what the current version probably used
[08:21] <wintermu1e> yeah, usually svn calls those tags
[08:21] <pwnguin> ah yea
[08:21] <pwnguin> well i noticed branches in the url
[08:21] <wintermu1e> ahh, right
[08:23] <wintermu1e> the version I have installed on my local system is 0.6.4svn2422-0ubuntu
[08:23] <pwnguin> well if you're interested in finding patches, you should probably look for their main development branch / tags
[08:23] <wintermu1e> hmm, so you're saying that ubuntu uses a branch of the 6_0_0 branch in gnome svn
[08:26] <pwnguin> thats what id surmise from the url superm1 dropped
[08:27] <superm1> well unless the person updating the package didn't update debian/copyright
[08:27] <superm1> which is very possible
[08:29] <superm1> reading the Changelog shipped with it, i see a Bump version to 0.6.4
[08:29] <superm1> so it probably following the 6_4_0 tag instead in gnome svn
[08:29] <superm1> and debian/copyright just needs to be updated
[08:31] <wintermu1e> hmm, yeah, so if its fixed in the head of gnome svn what are the chances of it getting into ubuntu?
[08:31] <pwnguin> depends on the severity of the bug, the size and quality of the patch,
[08:31] <superm1> if its a fairly uninvasive patch, its still possible
[08:31] <superm1> yeah and what pwnguin said :)
[08:32] <superm1> mornin dholbach
[08:32] <dholbach> good morning
[08:32] <dholbach> hey superm1!
[08:33] <pwnguin> and whether its in main or universe
[08:33] <superm1> it is in universe
[08:34] <dholbach> how are y'all doing?
[08:36] <superm1> i'm a wee bit tired, but still trying to work on coursework for tomorrow, so sleep can wait :)
[08:36] <ScottK> Good morning dholbach
[08:36] <dholbach> hey ScottK
[08:37] <dholbach> superm1: good luck with that :)
[08:37] <ScottK> dholbach: I hope you considered my reply to your Wiki reorg mail yesterday constructive.
[08:39] <dholbach> ScottK: yes, I do - thanks a lot for that; I'll reply to it later
[08:39] <ScottK> No rush.  With any luck I'm going to be soon.
[08:39] <asisak> Hey ScottK
[08:40] <StevenK> ScottK: Would you mind replying to the UVFe for that emulator?
[08:40] <dholbach> ScottK: you're going to be soon?
[08:40] <StevenK> ScottK: The "What do I do now" mail.
[08:40] <pwnguin> did i do it wrong?
[08:41] <ScottK> pwnguin: What was the bug # again?
[08:42] <ScottK> dholbach: I had some SSL certificates expire yesterday and the various CA cert signing options I currently beating me badly.  When I bend them to my will, I get to sleep.
[08:42] <pwnguin> bug #144389
[08:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 144389 in desmume "Upstream version 0.7.3 available" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144389
[08:42] <dholbach> ScottK: ah ok... good luck with that then
[08:43] <StevenK> openssl is a pain in the bum.
[08:44] <ScottK> pwnguin: Did you see my question in the bug?
[08:45] <pwnguin> I hadn't yet
[08:46] <pwnguin> I assume it does
[08:46] <ScottK> Why?
[08:46] <pwnguin> i didnt touch rules
[08:46] <pwnguin> just brought straight from debian
[08:46] <ScottK> What did you touch?
[08:46] <pwnguin> changelog and control
[08:46] <pwnguin> specifically Maintianters and Section
[08:46] <ScottK> OK.
[08:47] <ScottK> Looks like it's a straight sync.
[08:48] <pwnguin> was there a script i could have used to do that?
[08:49] <ScottK> If you knew it was a sync, you could have used requestsync -s to ask for it and have all the needed info.  You'd have still needed to add the UVFe stuff manually.  dholbach has a ppaput script that I think might have simplified it for you.  These are in the ubuntu-dev-tools package.
[08:58] <soren> wintermu1e: What's the patch (for n-m-vpnc)?
[08:59] <wintermu1e> soren: well, I was checking to see if the issue was fixed in gnome, cvs but it doesn't look like it has
[09:00] <wintermu1e> there's actually a couple issues I'm dealing with here, and it looks like I'll have to write my own patch
[09:06] <wintermu1e> but I'm getting an odd log message which is making me think I don't have the write source
[09:07] <soren> wintermu1e: Alright. I used to be fairly familiar with the code, so just ask if you need any pointers.
[09:11] <wintermu1e> soren: perhaps you've seen in deamon.log the log message "NetworkManager: file nm-vpn-service.c: line 459 (nm_vpn_se
[09:11] <wintermu1e> rvice_stage3_connect_cb): assertion failed: (service != NULL)"
[09:12] <wintermu1e> the problem is that line 459 has no assertion
[09:12] <wintermu1e> and ha nothing to do with the service code
[09:14] <wintermu1e> ahh, nm, its in NetworkManager, they have the exact same file names, so I got confused
[09:15] <soren> wintermu1e: :)
[09:31] <wintermu1e> soren: how do I find what compile time options were used in the ubuntu/debian builds?
[09:31] <soren> wintermu1e: You could look at the build logs on launchpad?
[09:32] <proppy> hiya
[09:33] <wintermu1e> hmm, where are the build logs?
[09:34] <minghua> wintermu1e: click "show publishing history", then click the version number you want.
[09:35] <asisak> See you later
[09:39] <wintermu1e> hmm, don't see "show publishing history", I'm looking at the project page
[09:39] <soren> wintermu1e: Don't. Look at the package page.
[09:39] <soren> wintermu1e: Which package is it?
[09:39] <wintermu1e> NetworkManager
[09:39] <soren> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager
[09:42] <wintermu1e> hmm, ok I'm there, but I don't see where the logs are
[09:43] <pwnguin> cuz that would make sennse
[09:43] <pwnguin> click on show publishing history
[09:43] <wintermu1e> yeah, did that and selected the version I wanted
[09:43] <pwnguin> you now see a list of packages built and platforms
[09:43] <pwnguin> click on your platform to retrieve the logs
[09:44] <wintermu1e> yeah, selected the one I wanted from there too
[09:44] <pwnguin> gutsy i386?
[09:44] <wintermu1e> feisty, don't see anything about arch though
[09:45] <wintermu1e> ahh, got it
[09:48] <wintermu1e> thanks pwnguin, soren, and superm1.  I'll probably be coming back tomorrow, gotta get some sleep.
[09:48] <superm1> night wintermu1e
[10:33] <ScottK> I finally beat openssl into submission and got the certs tested/deployed, so I'm going to bed.
[10:33] <ScottK> Good night all.
[10:36] <pwnguin> good night and thanks!
[10:39] <dholbach> night ScottK
[10:42] <huats> night ScottK
[10:52] <norsetto> morning all
[10:53] <proppy> 'ning
[11:02] <pwnguin> interesting. im not sure, but i think fedora's technical committee decided to drop all kernel modules not in the tree
[11:03] <TheMuso> pwnguin: Do you mean the tree as in mainline kernel
[11:04] <pwnguin> yea
[11:04] <TheMuso> Interesting decision.
[11:05] <pwnguin> im trying to find the discussion
[11:05] <pwnguin> it was apparently voted 8-1
[11:05] <TheMuso> I like what the Ubuntu kernel guys do. Stay close to mainline for the kernel itself, and have another package with extra drivers.
[11:05] <pwnguin> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-September/msg01949.html
[11:06] <pwnguin> well
[11:06] <pwnguin> the extra drivers package is pain and a half
[11:06] <pwnguin> esp if you need it
[11:07] <TheMuso> pwnguin: Yeah I am sure it could be annoying for some.
[11:07] <pwnguin> they use the phrase "add-on"
[11:08] <pwnguin> but im not sure if they mean "not installed by default" or "maintained out of linus' tree"
[11:08] <pwnguin> likely the latter
[11:09] <TheMuso> Getting it all into the mainline kernel certainly does make sense however.
[11:09] <pwnguin> maybe
[11:10] <pwnguin> their basic theory is that if mainline wont accept it then clearly fedora has no business shipping it
[11:10] <TheMuso> Right.
[11:10] <pwnguin> the impression i get is that they wont be pushing things into mainline as much as kicking things out of fedora
[11:11] <Fujitsu> Has Canonical adopted enough DDs lately?
[11:12] <pwnguin> they havent run out yet?
[11:12] <TheMuso> Fujitsu: heh
[11:12] <pwnguin> i figured by now they're down to people in "fuck ubuntu" shirts
[11:12] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: Mhm.
[11:14] <pwnguin> its a bit silly though
[11:14] <Fujitsu> pwnguin: How?
[11:14] <pwnguin> when linus rejects a patch
[11:14] <Fujitsu> Oh, not related, I see...
[11:15] <pwnguin> his rationale is "go find a distro willing to nuture it for a while"
[11:15] <Fujitsu> Not Fedora any more, I guess.
[11:16] <pwnguin> maybe they'll fix tifm
[11:16] <pwnguin> and i can write to SD again
[11:16] <pwnguin> how does something like that work in edgy, but not feisty or gutsy?
[11:16] <Fujitsu> Mine has worked since Edgy, died for a while in Feisty, but came back fairly soon.
[11:21] <pwnguin> I wonder if wacom is in the kernel
[11:21] <minghua> gettext tools are PITA.
[11:22] <minghua> Apparently VCS won't save you if you don't check in.  :-(
[11:23] <lifeless> so RH used to have the -ac atree
[11:23] <minghua> Hah.  At least gettext tools don't have connection problems.  ;-)
[11:23] <lifeless> *tree*
[11:23] <huats> norsetto: Hey
[11:23] <huats> norsetto: How are you ?
[11:25] <huats> norsetto: LOL
[11:25] <proppy> norsetto: ack my new mail ?
[11:25] <norsetto> huats: so, how many bugs did you squash today?
[11:25] <norsetto> proppy: yes, lets wait unitl the mentor is back from holidays
[11:26] <huats> norsetto: unfortunatly none... I am ashamed... I had/still have to be the plumber in the appartement where we are moving on sunday :-(
[11:27] <norsetto> huats: ah, a nice apartment with view on the Garonne I hope ....
[11:27] <huats> norsetto: I see you know my place :-) but you know I know yours too
[11:27] <norsetto> huats: or one in Ramonville .....
[11:28] <huats> norsetto: amazing
[11:28] <proppy> norsetto: thanks
[11:28] <proppy> norsetto: Was afraid of your spam filter
[11:28] <huats> norsetto: how many times did you went in Toulouse ??? In fact I was living near ramonville right now, and we are moving to a place next to the garonne (but without the view :-()
[11:28] <norsetto> proppy: np, I think it got triggered by the lenght of the email
[11:29] <norsetto> huats: quite a lot :-)
[11:29] <huats> norsetto: I can imagine that... (ok I had a look at your wiki page)
[11:30] <norsetto> huats: infact, we even thought about moving there once
[11:30] <proppy> norsetto: hope the later one provide the information you expected
[11:30] <huats> norsetto: oh really ? that is really a nice place to live
[11:30] <norsetto> proppy: yes, spot on
[11:31] <norsetto> huats: it is indeed, who knows, maybe one day
[11:31] <huats> norsetto: :-)
[11:31] <huats> norsetto: but you are lucky, Rome is also very nice (at least for holidays)
[11:32] <norsetto> huats: yes, for holidays
[11:32] <norsetto> huats: we are lucky to live in the outskirts, 20 km from downtown ;-)
[11:32] <Nafallo> Fujitsu, \sh: are any of you working on gajim?
[11:33] <Fujitsu> Nafallo: I was presuming you would.
[11:33] <huats> norsetto: ok... it is true that the downtime is a little messy :-) but it is also so beautiful....
[11:33] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: I got a new and damn fast laptop know :-)
[11:34] <Fujitsu> Nafallo: Yay! What kind?
[11:34] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: I think thats answer enough ;-)
[11:34] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: Lenovo R61i (NA01FUK)
[11:34] <Nafallo> Fujitsu: I auth sudo with my fingerprint :-)
[11:35] <norsetto> huats: we go there quite often actually, so for us is like if we are on a permanent holiday, but to live there is next to impossible
[11:35] <huats> norsetto: I can understand that... It is true that we also found it very noisy
[11:36] <norsetto> huats: and then there are all the bloody french tourists going around and making a lot of noise complaining about the noise :-)
[11:37] <Fujitsu> Nafallo: Ah, nice, I like the R series.
[11:37] <huats> norsetto: and I was not complaining, I was noticing :-)
[11:38] <norsetto> huats: you see, my wife is french so she hates to see french tourists while in Rome (she talks in Roman to me then ...)
[11:38] <huats> norsetto: to be honnest, I hate to see French people abroad too...
[11:40] <norsetto> huats: the funny thing is that she complains because she says French are always complaining when abroad (but I think they complain too when at home....)
[11:40] <norsetto> huats: the exact word she uses is "raleurs" ;-)
[11:40] <huats> norsetto: she is absolutely right....
[11:41] <huats> but you are also right....
[11:41] <norsetto> huats: its certainly true about her father :-)
[11:42] <huats> :-)
[11:48] <proppy> norsetto: is you wife "raleuse" as well ?
[11:49] <proppy> s/you/your
[11:50] <norsetto> proppy: not at all actually
[11:50] <proppy> norsetto: she must be half french then :)
[11:51] <norsetto> proppy: he, I'm not entirely Italian either (I hate football ....)
[11:56] <norsetto> huats: just read your answer in bug 108746
[11:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 108746 in efax-gtk "no icon in kde menu" [Wishlist,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/108746
[11:56] <norsetto> huats: the entry in the menu should be Applications/Network/File Transfer
[11:57] <huats> norsetto: ok that was my idea... but I'd rather have a confirmation
[11:57] <norsetto> huats: "having it patched offline" means with a patch system, I think you are just patching inline (ie. the source directly)?
[11:58] <huats> norsetto: yep, I've patch the source directly... So you would prefer that I use debian/patches ?
[11:59] <norsetto> huats: I prefer it, its much cleaner and traceable yes, and its a good exercise for you too :-)
[11:59] <huats> norsetto: ok
[11:59] <huats> norsetto: I will redo it so
[12:00] <norsetto> huats: the comment about ~ppa3 wasn't that ~ppa2 is missing, but rather that we should publish it without the ~ppa
[12:00] <huats> oh ok
[12:01] <huats> still the same pb
[12:01] <huats> I haven't understood the correct way of using the ~ppa for publishing ....
[12:02] <huats> once I am happy with my ~ppa, I should create one without the ~ppa ?
[12:03] <norsetto> huats: or just correct the debdiff
[12:03] <huats> norsetto: ok
[12:27] <TheMuso> c
[12:27] <TheMuso> oops
[12:29] <dholbach> how are y'all doing?
[12:30] <TheMuso> So there is nobody here who has a MOTU meeting time suggestion? I can't believe nobody really cares.
[12:30] <norsetto> dholbach: great!
[12:30] <TheMuso> dholbach: Well thanks. Just doing some UbuntuStudio bug hunting. :p
[12:30] <dholbach> TheMuso: I'd like something that's not too late in the european friday; as I'll be on the road on the WE
[12:30] <TheMuso> Or should I say, bug fixing.
[12:30] <dholbach> TheMuso: but I did not want to get the MOTU Meeting blocked on me
[12:31] <dholbach> TheMuso: neat-o - saw a bunch of your uploads
[12:31] <TheMuso> dholbach: I can understand.
[12:31] <dholbach> TheMuso: if you want, I can mention that in a reply to stimulate discussion?
[12:31] <dholbach> TheMuso: how are the ubuntustudio people shaping up when it comes to packaging?
[12:31] <dholbach> TheMuso: do you think we can recruit a bunch of them? :-)
[12:32] <TheMuso> dholbach: Well I have two of them as my pupils, one of which I've been working with already. I am trying to encourage them to start diving into the TODO and fixing bugs.
[12:33] <TheMuso> dholbach: Eventually, our plan is to get all ubuntustudio packagers as MOTUs. (our, being the ubuntustudio team leaders.)
[12:33] <TheMuso> I've just been appointed packaging lead, so theres a lot of things I want to get sorted out, particularly pushign them towards the MOTU community in general, so that they get more well known.
[12:34] <dholbach> TheMuso: they should try to follow the SponsorshipProcess on their own
[12:35] <TheMuso> dholbach: I'm actually being sponsored to attend UDS in October, and so are some others from the group, so we hope to participate in MOTU discussions, as well as planning of our own.
[12:35] <dholbach> TheMuso: that way they get in contact with other MOTUs who will ask them to fix their stuff and they'll benefit from that
[12:35] <TheMuso> dholbach: Yeah I know, but I'm just encouraging them to do so.
[12:35] <dholbach> TheMuso: thanks a lot for that
[12:35] <dholbach> TheMuso: if I can help with anything or you have any other ideas, let me know
[12:35] <TheMuso> dholbach: np. I am well aware that the more wide-spread sponsorship they get, the better their chances.
[12:35] <dholbach> it'd be nice to have the full ubuntustudio crew as MOTUs :)
[12:36] <dholbach> also: the better their contacts into the ubuntu team and the better the more diverse their packaging knowledge
[12:36] <TheMuso> Yep, no argument from me there.
[12:36] <ajmitch> TheMuso: yes I do care about the MOTU meeting time
[12:37] <TheMuso> ajmitch: I know you do. Recent regulars are excused.
[12:37] <ajmitch> ok :)
[12:37] <TheMuso> :p
[12:37] <ajmitch> and you know that I support the time you suggested
[12:37] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Yup.
[12:37] <ajmitch> I was in the middle of replying to that email earlier when I got distracted by something
[12:37] <TheMuso> heh I know the feeling.
[12:39] <TheMuso> back in a bit
[01:51] <ScottK> Good morning all.
[01:52] <TheMuso> Hey ScottK.
[01:53] <ScottK> Heya TheMuso
[01:55] <geser> Hi ScottK
[01:56] <ScottK> heya geser.
[01:56] <ScottK> geser: You're pretty good with GTK stuff, right?
[01:57] <ScottK> In interest in seeing if you can figure out https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/120569
[01:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 120569 in gtkspell "[gutsy]  gtkspell segfaults when trying to set the language on gtk.TextView" [High,Confirmed] 
[02:00] <geser> ScottK: rather not, all I know is how to fix the build failures with gtk 2.11
[02:00] <geser> but I can look if I find the problem nonetheless
[02:01] <ScottK> geser: OK.  I'm completely hopeless on GTK.  If someone doesn't get it figured soon, we'll have to patch spelling support out of Gramps before the release.  It'd be good to avoid that if we can.
[02:02] <StevenK> What's the stack trace?
[02:05] <pkern> Time for -dbgsym
[02:07] <AnAnt> Hello, I'm creating a package which includes a python module
[02:07] <AnAnt> this module is for use with apache, where should this module be installed ?
[02:08] <pkern> soren: ping
[02:09] <soren> pkern: Oui?
[02:12] <pkern> soren: Si tu as temps pour une vrification... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=300
[02:13] <soren> I have no idea what that means, but I'll take a look at that link, shall I?
[02:13] <ajmitch> heh :)
[02:13] <pkern> soren: Jep :-P
[02:13] <soren> Nghh....
[02:13] <soren> I *really* don't like quilt :)
[02:13] <ajmitch> quilt is fun
[02:13] <pkern> quilt was nice to edit those patches. Really.
[02:13] <ajmitch> I didn't like it much either, until I looked at it a little more
[02:13] <pkern> I was glad to have it.
[02:14] <soren> What was wrong with cdbs' own patch system?
[02:14] <ajmitch> simple-patchsys?
[02:15] <soren> Yeah.
[02:15] <pkern> soren: I needed to edit the patches. Which is easier if they are known to quilt. It doesn't matter much which one is used.
[02:15] <ajmitch> it was intended as a demo of a patch system in cdbs :)
[02:15] <pkern> But if you have to wander through the patch stack and edit here and there... simple-patchsys only applies them for the build.
[02:15] <ajmitch> being able to push the patches needed & edit in place really is quite good
[02:16] <soren> I suppose I can suck it up. quilt and I just have a sort of a hate-hate relationship going on.
[02:16] <ajmitch> dpatch is nice like that, too (even though it unpacks elsewhere)
[02:16] <ajmitch> hehe
[02:16] <soren> Then use dpatch :)
[02:16] <ajmitch> what do you hate about quilt?
[02:16] <soren> Its existence.
[02:16] <soren> and proximity.
[02:16] <soren> More the latter, actually.
[02:17] <ajmitch> more details needed
[02:17] <norsetto> hi scottk
[02:17] <ajmitch> that doesn't tell me *why* :)
[02:17] <soren> Simple: It's evil and never does what I expect it to.
[02:17] <soren> I expect it to bloody work. Instead it gets in my way.
[02:19] <ScottK> hi norsetto.
[02:19] <pkern> I never touched quilt before this package. I was able to take it up within minutes and it worked fine for me. YMMV
[02:23] <soren> pkern: As I said. It's ok. I just don't like it very much.
[02:25] <Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
[02:25] <pkern> soren: So do you have time to review this and to judge if this may still be suitable for release? (Apart from the timeout patch the fixes would be nice to have).
[02:26] <soren> pkern: Maybe tonight. I've got at dentist appointment in half an hour and I need to get a few things done first.
[02:26] <pkern> soren: Ok, thanks. (:
[02:34] <fernando> moin all
[03:01] <dfiloni> ciao a tutti
[03:44] <pkern> ScottK: That's fun. The memory gets corrupted somehow.
[03:47] <pkern> Does anyone know how to add a second source path to gdb?
[03:47] <pkern> (From gdbs cmdline)
[03:48] <pkern> Hm dir <dirname>
[03:53] <pkern> It looks like delete_aspell_config is the culprit.
[03:56] <geser> pkern: I guess it somewhere in gtkspell as I got now #0  0x00002b5081c0a500 in ?? () from /usr/lib/libcrypto.so.0.9.8
[03:58] <geser> if I do "gtkspell.Spell(gtk.TextView()).set_language('en_GB')" it crashes in libaspell
[03:59] <pkern> geser: The point is that `spell' gets corrupted through libaspell somehow.
[03:59] <pkern> geser: http://paste.debian.net/37959
[04:06] <pkern> Bah, where does gsynaptics store its settings.
[04:07] <geser> pkern: I don't know if the backtrace is reliable
[04:08] <geser> if I do "s = gtkspell.Spell(gtk.TextView())" and then "s.set_languange('en_GB')" I get an other crash
[04:08] <pkern> geser: I'm stepping through.
[04:08] <pkern> That's the same problem.
[04:08] <geser> either in libgtk or libcrypto
[04:08] <ogra> pkern, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/20070925/ gobby liveCD :)
[04:08] <pkern> Somehow set_language_internal  fails.
[04:08] <pkern> ogra: Yay :D
[04:09] <pkern> ogra: So you got the size problem fixed without sacrifising Gobby?
[04:09] <ogra> sure
[04:09] <ogra> i'd never drop gobby now that we have it in
[04:12] <pkern> geser: I suggest you installing the ddebs.
[04:13] <pkern> But I also got a problem with an optimized gtkspell, so that probably needs to be recompiled anyway.
[04:14] <geser> I have installed the -dbgsym packages for libaspell and libgtkspell but not the others ones
[04:16] <pkern> Bah, the input to _set_language is already invalid.
[04:16] <pkern> A pity I can't debug the python adapter.
[04:20] <LongPointyStick> RAOF: prod back
[04:21] <geser> pkern: python-gnome2-extras-dbg is currently broken
[04:22] <pkern> Looks like it, yes.
[04:22] <geser> seb128 wants to upload a fixed one soon
[04:23] <pkern> Wah that depends on apache.
[04:23] <geser> how did you found out that the input to _set_language is already broken
[04:23] <geser> ?
[04:23] <pkern> And tk. What a crap.
[04:23] <geser> ah, I already had apache installed so I didn't notice
[04:24] <pkern> http://paste.debian.net/37962
[04:24] <pkern> new_attach creates a GtkSpell at 0xb050b0
[04:24] <pkern> set_language receives 0x8f6f00
[04:25] <pkern> There were other indicators in case this one looks corrupt. Like view in spell being 0x0
[04:25] <geser> I want to build locally python-gnome2-extras with fixed debugging
[04:25] <geser> are amd64 debs useful to you?
[04:26] <pkern> I'm currently downloading the build-deps. ;) And yes, I am on amd64.
[04:26] <pkern> Hey 38M of build-deps, that's crap.
[04:27] <geser> I'm just updateing my pbuilder and will rebuild gnome-python-extras soon
[04:43] <pkern> One should put up a testcase in plain C Gtk.
[04:47] <\sh> dholbach, someone forgot to mention that we have now wine 32bit packages on amd64 arch ;)
[04:47] <\sh> dholbach, in the motu team report
[04:48] <dholbach> \sh: add it for next months report
[04:48] <dholbach> everybody: add MOTU facts to it :-)
[04:49] <Hobbsee> what reports where?
[04:50] <pkern> geser: http://paste.debian.net/37967 works as expected.
[04:51] <pkern> geser: ((PyObject*)self)->spell gets modified somewhere. I couldn't see where, though.
[04:51] <dholbach> \sh, Hobbsee: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReportingPage
[04:51] <zul> dholbach: can I add "I like cheese" to the report? ;)
[04:51] <dholbach> \sh, Hobbsee: got rolled into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TeamReports/September2007
[04:52] <dholbach> zul: if you feel it's in a similar spirit as above: ^
[04:53] <Hobbsee> dholbach: ah yes, what's happening to those?
[04:53] <dholbach> Hobbsee: we add stuff to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/ReportingPage and it gets rolled into monthly team reports
[04:53] <dholbach> that way we don't have to write our own motu report
[04:53] <Hobbsee> dholbach: sorry, i meant to ask what was happening with the monthly team reports?
[04:54] <dholbach> and it's a good overview over what happens inside various teams
[04:54] <dholbach> Hobbsee: we'll keep them around and I'm sure they'll get syndicated in other places at some stage
[04:57] <Hobbsee> dholbach: hm, OK.
[04:58] <dholbach> Hobbsee: hm?
[04:58] <Hobbsee> dholbach: just wondering where you'd syndicate it
[04:58] <Hobbsee> unless the UWN or something
[04:59] <dholbach> I think it's a good thing to have it on the wiki and to have it regularly and to have all teams' information in one place
[04:59] <pkern> geser: Oh no.
[04:59] <dholbach> editing the motu wiki should be easy enough for everybody working in the motu team
[05:00] <pkern> geser: Found it. \:
[05:00] <pkern> geser: The test case is bogus.
[05:00] <pkern> geser: gtkspell.Spell is not enough to keep the TextView alive.
[05:01] <pkern> geser: (i.e. it does not bump the refcnt which causes the textview to be destroyed after the attachment)
[05:03] <pkern> So what does this bloody program do here.
[05:03] <pkern> gramps is like... 17M big. \:
[05:05] <\sh> now...end of business for today...looking for a new job ,)
[05:05] <pkern> geser: Bah.
[05:05] <pkern> geser: gramps just checks if a spell checker is available.
[05:08] <pkern> geser: I'll do a patch.
[05:16] <geser> pkern: good
[05:17] <pkern> geser: Well, now I moved the crash into Python's GC. o_O
[05:17] <pkern> geser: But at least the pointers are all correct now.
[05:17] <geser> it still crashes?
[05:18] <pkern> Py_Finalize() -> PyGC_collect() -> collect -> Objects/tupleobject.c, yeah
[05:19] <geser> I'm still trying to build the python module with debug symbols
[05:19] <pkern> geser: I did some CFLAGS="-ggdb -O0" ./configure --prefix=/usr and copied the resulting gtkspell.so over the one in usr
[05:20] <pkern> Which is dirty, but dpkg won't notify that when I later uninstall it.
[05:20] <geser> I'll see if I can fix the package, so one has a working package for the next time
[05:23] <pkern> Well I don't know how to fix *this* crash.
[05:24] <Hobbsee> mruiz: you havent mentioned all the reverse deps of the libraries that you're wanting to sync.  neither have you mentioned if the packages work flawlessly in gutsy.  pleasefix.
[05:24] <Hobbsee> mruiz: and is it really necessary to update libs, when we release in undera  month?
[05:24] <mruiz> Hobbsee, I was thinking about that...
[05:25] <Hobbsee> mruiz: also, libxml2 is not in universe.
[05:25] <mruiz> Hobbsee, yes is main
[05:25] <Hobbsee> mruiz: dude.  "No Fucking Way".
[05:25] <Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ rdepends  libxml2 | wc -l
[05:25] <Hobbsee> 887
[05:26] <mruiz> :-)
[05:26] <Hobbsee> sarah@LongPointyStick:~$ rdepends libxslt1.1 | wc -l
[05:26] <Hobbsee> 103
[05:26] <Hobbsee> i think not
[05:27] <Hobbsee> mruiz: do you want to mark them as wontfix now, or do you want a tongue lashing on teh bugs?
[05:30] <pkern> o_O
[05:31] <pkern> geser: It's possible that gtkspell's type table is busted, but I don't even see which object it acts upon.
[05:31] <pkern> Anyone here familiar with Python debugging?
[05:32] <mruiz> Hobbsee, no worries. I just *asked* about them as part of desktop-team weekly todo. I understood that isn't the correct moment to go ahead.
[05:32] <Hobbsee> mruiz: right...
[05:32] <mruiz> Hobbsee, thanks for your advices
[05:33] <Hobbsee> mruiz: dont know when the correct moment will be - they'll automatically be synced/merged for hardy
[05:33] <geser> pkern: doko perhaps
[05:33] <ogra> Hobbsee, oh, come on, youre taking all the fun out of making beta releases :P
[05:33] <Hobbsee> ogra: :P
[05:33] <Hobbsee> ogra: i havent actually been doing much with the beta, actually
[05:33] <ogra> so much fun to update an essential lib at dawn of beta :)
[05:33] <Hobbsee> ogra: and i think we still want people like pitti and cjwatson to have hair at teh end
[05:33] <ogra> yeah
[05:34] <ogra> well, there is slangasek ...
[05:35] <Hobbsee> ogra: yeah, but you want him to stay as RM, not run and hide.
[05:36] <Hobbsee> ogra: otherwise you'[ll have to find another RM.
[05:36] <ogra> heh
[05:36] <Hobbsee> mruiz: btw, i dont know how you mutilated the debdiff...
[05:37] <mruiz> Hobbsee, mutilated ?
[05:37] <Hobbsee> mruiz: look at teh bottom o fit
[05:38] <pkern> geser: I hardly want to bother doko.
[05:38] <Hobbsee> mruiz: and usually, there are paragraphs in it
[05:38] <pkern> geser: I don't think it's a bug in Python itself.
[05:39] <mruiz> Hobbsee, strange ... I did it as always
[05:40] <Hobbsee> yeah, i've got no idea what's actually happened
[05:44] <mruiz> anyway, I'lll find out about it. Cya Hobbsee
[05:44] <Hobbsee> cya mruiz
[05:46] <ScottK> Hobbsee: I'm just reading the scrollback and I'm afraid you are being to subtle for me.  How do you really feel about the libxml2 and libxslt1.1 UVFe's?
[05:46] <ScottK> ;-)
[05:46] <Hobbsee> ScottK: *grin*
[05:46] <pkern> geser: I attached a solution for gramps to the bug report. I lost too much time with this and won't put up a patch now. (If somebody wants to, it's documented in the report what to do.)
[05:47] <pkern> ScottK: ^
[05:47] <ScottK> pkern: Thanks for looking into it.
[05:51] <ScottK> pkern: Would you at least pastebin a diff of what worked for you and I'll look into it from there?
[05:54] <pkern> ScottK: For gramps or for the Python module?
[05:54] <ScottK> pkern: Gramps
[05:54] <pkern> ScottK: gramps would be along the lines of tv = gtk.TextView() gtkspell.Spell(tv).set_language(...)
[05:55] <ScottK> If I can make that work, as a MOTU my caring about gtk spelling issues goes way down.
[05:55] <geser> ScottK: if you change "gtkspell.Spell(gtk.TextView()).set_language(lang)" to "t = gtk.TextView()" and later "gtkspell.Spell(t).set_language(lang)" it doesn't crash
[05:55] <geser> that's for the example in the bug report for how to reproduce it
[05:56] <geser> I haven't looked into gramps how it does it
[05:56] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[05:56] <pkern> geser: Exactly like that.
[05:56] <ScottK> If I can get enough brain cells rubbing together I'll take a look.
[05:56] <pkern> geser: It just does that to test if the spell checker is available.
[05:56] <pkern> ScottK: Oh well, should I prepare a debdiff or what?
[05:56] <pkern> ScottK: If YOU do the install check
[05:56] <ScottK> pkern: If you would do a debdiff that would be wonderful.
[05:57] <ScottK> I'll do the install check.
[05:57] <ScottK> I've got a 2nd hard drive for my laptop I use just for stuff like this.
[05:58] <DarkSun88> Hi all
[05:59] <geser> pkern: would you say that using gtkspell.Spell() like in the bug is ok and should be reported upstream?
[06:00] <pkern> geser: It looks bogus. Maybe gtkspell should provide a way of looking up that information.
[06:01] <pkern> geser: It probably shouldn't segfault on this, but it's still bogus at how it is called.
[06:02] <geser> I'll file a bug upstream
[06:02] <pkern> ScottK: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9503542/gramps_2.2.8-1ubuntu1_2.2.8-1ubuntu2.debdiff
[06:02] <ScottK> pkern: Thanks.
[06:03] <ScottK> pkern: Looks splendid.  If it tests OK I'll upload it.
[06:05] <pkern> ScottK: Are you sure that `high' importance is really justified?
[06:05] <ScottK> pkern: Not now that I understand it better.  I don't think I set it that way to start with.
[06:10] <ScottK> pkern: I just redid the status/importance in the bug.  What do you think?
[06:12] <pkern> ScottK: I would say it's low for the core apps (i.e. gtkspell and gnome-python-extras) and medium for gramps. Because you could easily work around that issue.
[06:12] <ScottK> pkern: I can see that, but I have a hard time seeing anything that causes a crash as low.
[06:13] <ScottK> The only exception I tend to make for that is crash on exit bugs since you wanted out anyway.
[06:13] <pkern> Hm ok, point taken.
[06:31] <geser> pkern: reported upstream as http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480281
[06:31] <ubotu> Gnome bug 480281 in gtkspell "Segfault when gtkspell.Spell() is called with a temporary object" [Critical,Resolved: notgnome] 
[06:41] <ScottK> pkern: One small issue with your debdiff (I fixed it): It's XSBC-Original-Maintainer, not X-Original-Maintainer.
[06:41] <ScottK> pkern: Nevermind.  That wasn't you.
[06:53] <pkern> ScottK: (:
[06:53] <ScottK> pkern: Not your fault.  I'm cleaning up a couple of other things in the package while I'm there.
[06:54] <pkern> geser: Hm I believe paste.debian.net pastes expire...
[06:54] <pkern> ScottK: It would be nice if we were more strict as MOTUs when it comes to initial packaging.
[06:55] <ScottK> pkern: That was just someone's typo and that sort of thing happens.  Most of the stuff I'm cleaning up is just because the Debian Maintainer hasn't updated for changes in how things are done.
[06:56] <ScottK> It's not a matter of the initial packaging being wrong.
[06:57] <pkern> It was more a general observation. I did not look into this package's packaging at all.
[06:58] <ScottK> Ah. OK.  Actually we are stricter than Debian on some things and less strict on others.
[06:59] <ScottK> In my experience packaging for both.
[07:00] <pkern> Stricter than Debian? In which way?
[07:02] <ScottK> pkern: We tend to push harder on having stuff fully, fully documented in debian/copyright.
[07:02] <ScottK> And having a full copy of the license in the upstream tarball.
[07:03] <ScottK> I've had New packages I synced from Debian get rejected by the Ubuntu archive for those kinds of reasons.
[07:04] <geser> pkern: you are right: (expires Thu 27th Sep 16:50)
[07:04] <pkern> Fun, as I happen to know how strict Joerg usually is.
[07:05] <ScottK> What expires?
[07:05] <geser> http://paste.debian.net/37967
[07:06] <Baby> you're stricter than Ganneff? :P
[07:07] <pkern> Baby: I can't believe it, unless somebody bribed him with milk.
[07:07] <Baby> hmm yep... in that case, that could be :)
[07:08] <ScottK> It could just be someone had a bad day, but I've seen a number of perl modules and such come from Debian with no license copy in the upstream tarball.
[07:10] <Baby> hmm that might be, if upstream hasn't put it there
[07:10] <Baby> as long as everything's well documented in debian/copyright
[07:11] <pkern> .oO( Do never ever confuse Baby with mruiz... )
[07:11] <zul> crud i have mc hammer stuck in my head
[07:11] <ScottK> Well Ubuntu archive will insist you either get upstream to add it or repack the tarball to add it yourself.
[07:12] <ScottK> zul: Argh.  My ears.  Me too now.
[07:13] <Baby> pkern: yup, when I saw mruiz's  nick I also went :O
[07:13] <pkern> geser: severity:critical sounds exagerated(+spelling)
[07:13] <Baby> I have a clone :P
[07:16] <pkern> s/clone/twin/
[07:16] <Baby> yup :)
[07:18] <ScottK> pkern: It didn't catch my laptop on fire, so I uploaded it.  Thanks for your contribution.
[07:20] <geser> pkern: I used the guided bug reporting and selected it was a crash
[07:22] <pkern> geser: Ok.
[07:28] <Nightrose> pkern: wrt Bug #121386 - i know - just didn't yet get to fixing the problems the last upload torevu had and didn't want to upload the package again before fixing these
[07:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121386 in ubuntu "[needs-packaging]  krdm" [Wishlist,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121386
[07:29] <pkern> Nightrose: Ok (:
[07:30] <Nightrose> ;-)
[07:30] <pkern> Nightrose: Maybe for Hardy. :-P
[07:31] <Nightrose> jep probably
[07:33] <Kopfgeldjaeger> can i use "Categories=Application;AudioVideo" although desktop-file-validate says that the "application" category does not exist?
[07:36] <geser> any reason not to remove Application from the Categories?
[07:43] <Kopfgeldjaeger> i do not know any.
[07:54] <ScottK> pkern: It's published now.  Thanks again.
[07:55] <Kopfgeldjaeger> do i just have to add this #DEBHELPER# line into my (post|pre)(rm|inst) script to mute lintian?
[08:15] <asisak> Good morning
[08:16] <geser> Hi asisak
[08:16] <asisak> Hey geser
[08:31] <Kopfgeldjaeger> i suddenly dont have a .diff.gz anymore! i guess this is because my orig.tar.gz is somehow wrong... how should i create the orig.tar.gz ( should it be *.orig.tar.gz/Makefile or *.orig.tar.gz/pkg-version...)? the version of my package is 1:2.4~svnFFFFFF, the source root directory is pkg-2.4
[08:34] <ScottK> norsetto_limbo: The python-milter setup.py patch you helped me with has been incorporated upstream.  Thanks again.
[08:38] <asisak> hey ScottK
[08:38] <ScottK> heya asisak
[08:39] <ScottK> asisak: If you have some time, there are a bunch of .desktop related uploades waiting for UUS attention.
[08:39] <asisak> Cool
[08:39] <asisak> If not right now, later this week.
[08:39] <asisak> Do we have some list somewhere?
[08:39] <asisak> Or a tag I can find these packages
[08:40] <asisak> (in an easier way)
[08:41] <ScottK> asisak: Getting you a link
[08:41] <ScottK> asisak: https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-universe-sponsors/ is the best I know of.
[08:41] <asisak> So I should look for desktop-related packages
[08:42] <asisak> Thanks, ScottK.
[08:42] <alvinc> siretart here?
[08:42] <ScottK> asisak: You can look at any of those, but I thought the desktop ones in particular because that fits your focus.
[08:42] <siretart> alvinc: in #ubuntu-meeting
[08:42] <asisak> Sure. "Fix committed" is what I should look at?
[08:43] <alvinc> siretart:  k
[08:43] <ScottK> No.  I think those have been uploaded.
[08:43] <asisak> Oh, I see
[08:43] <ScottK> Anything on UUS should be ready for upload.
[08:43] <asisak> I'll look into their contents then.
[08:43] <ScottK> If you look at it and it's not, unsub it and comment that they should resub UUS when it's ready.
[08:43] <asisak> Sure.
[08:49] <asisak> If something has been fixed in Ubuntu but not yet in Debian, should I unsubscribe UUS?
[08:50] <asisak> There is a Debian BTS bug associated to it
[08:50] <asisak> So I guess we cannot help any more
[08:56] <norsetto> scottk: no need to thanks, it was a pleasure
[08:57] <asisak> Hey norsetto!
[08:58] <norsetto> asisak: hmmm, master is better than emperor, so there
[08:58] <asisak> 
[08:59] <asisak> I am quite convinced Ceasare means Emperor :)
[08:59] <Kopfgeldjaeger> geser: i think i fixed what you told me. i you have time, a little look at http://xeve.de/down/demux/ (again *g) would be really nice
[09:00] <norsetto> asisaK; heck thats where kaizer and tzar are coming too ;-)
[09:00] <asisak> Sure, I know.
[09:00] <asisak> This means, you rule.
[09:02] <norsetto> asisak: I wish I could at least debian/rules
[09:09] <asisak> ScottK: sorry, can you answer if I should unsubscribe these bugs,
[09:09] <asisak> ?
[09:09] <asisak> OTOH I guess I have to join UUS first
[09:09] <ScottK> Yes, you do.
[09:10] <asisak> So I can ping ajmitch | slomo | StevenK :)
[09:11] <pwnguin> arg. why does gnome authentication suck so much?
[09:14] <sistpoty> hi folks
[09:15] <asisak> hey sistpoty
[09:16] <sistpoty> hi asisak
[09:18] <slomo> asisak: about?
[09:19] <asisak> slomo: I want to join UUS so that I can (un)subscribe their bugs
[09:19] <asisak> OTOH I also want to clear the queue, of course :)
[09:21] <sistpoty> hey slomo, haven't seen you around for a while
[09:22] <sistpoty> slomo: how are you?
[09:22] <slomo> sistpoty: good but rather busy :) atm i'm learning for a test, well... i should at least as it's tomorrow :/
[09:23] <sistpoty> hehe
[09:24] <sistpoty> good luck then slomo!
[09:25] <slomo> sistpoty: thanks :)
[09:30] <asisak> So may I ask you to approve me, slomo?
[09:31] <slomo> asisak: isn't that team unused nowadays anyway? but sure, if i can i'll do it ;
[09:31] <slomo> ;)
[09:31] <asisak> Unused? :)
[09:31] <ScottK> soren: (from #ubuntu-meeting) I think that's a function of the dichotomy between is Universe a place for the latest crack or is this stuff actually supposed to work.
[09:31] <ScottK> slomo: It's motu-sru that's unused.
[09:32] <ScottK> UUS is definitely used.
[09:36] <norsetto> slomo: hi sebastian, did you get my last email?
[09:42] <sistpoty> whoa, slangasek is now employed by canonical?
[09:42] <sistpoty> i.e. vorlon, right?
[09:45] <alvinc> vorlon?  lol.
[09:45] <alvinc> you don't mean the encounter suited vorlons, do you?
[09:45] <sistpoty> alvinc: no, rather the encounter suited ftp-master of debian :P
[09:46] <sistpoty> (or RM or both? not too sure right now)
[09:50] <pkern> sistpoty: He wasn't ftp-master at all.
[09:50] <pkern> sistpoty: "just" RM and wanna-build lord
[09:52] <sistpoty> pkern: ok, seems like I need to learn the difference between wanna-build and ftp-master before applying for NM then ;)
[09:53] <pkern> sistpoty: I don't think you *need* to do that before NM, depends on your AM. ;)
[09:54] <sistpoty> hehe
[09:54] <pkern> sistpoty: And most ftp-master work is done by "FTP assistants" anyway.
[09:55] <sistpoty> right
[09:55] <pkern> But that's nothing you *need* to now. What you need to care about is NEW, p-a-s and givebacks via d-release.
[09:55] <pkern> (And requesting BinNMUs by mailing d-release.)
[09:57] <sistpoty> pkern: hehe, and siretart showed me the NM questions today... interestingly I had asked at least one to the MC list w.o. knowing *g*
[09:57] <pkern> MC?
[09:57] <sistpoty> pkern: motu council, taking care to ack/rej new MOTUs
[09:57] <pkern> Bah, doing the questions beforehand because there is the CVS repo. You should not know that one. :-P
[09:58] <pkern> sistpoty: I want to apply as a MOTU, heh. ;)
[09:58] <sistpoty> pkern: go ahead, you'll get DD bonus anyways ;)
[09:59] <siretart> sistpoty: spooky up and running :)
[09:59] <siretart> sistpoty: I'll create an account for you tomorrow
[09:59] <pwnguin> what's the best way to push patches into debian?
[10:00] <sistpoty> siretart: hooray!
[10:00] <siretart> pwnguin: via 'reportbug -B debian'
[10:00] <pwnguin> aha
[10:00] <pwnguin> thats how to get reportbug to touch debian
[10:01] <siretart> pwnguin: you can also edit /etc/reportbug.conf
[10:02] <pkern> sistpoty: I should mail motu-council or what? ;)
[10:03] <sistpoty> pkern: yes, including your LP id, what you contributed to ubuntu (or inderictly via debian) so far, and what plans you have for universe
[10:05] <pwnguin> siretart: when exactly do i throw in the patch during the reportbug process?
[10:05] <sistpoty> pwnguin: attach a file
[10:06] <pkern> sistpoty: Will do, thanks.
[10:06] <siretart> see the manpage
[10:07] <pwnguin> ah. i didnt think it'd be a command line option
[10:07] <sistpoty> pkern: np... you'll get grilled by my questions anyways (at least as long I'm still a member) *g*
[10:08] <pkern> sistpoty: Are those mailed or realtime questions? :-P
[10:08] <pkern> sistpoty: I should reactivate my AM account and request you, then, if you ever apply. :-P
[10:09] <sistpoty> pkern: mailed. any yes, though that's not gonna happen before december (no vac until then), and yes, I take bribes ;)
[10:09] <sistpoty> s/any/and/
[10:11] <sistpoty> bigon: btw: did you recieve my last mail to the MC-list? (asking, because I might have sent it via local SMTP which is usually flagged as spam or not even accepted by the peer STMP)
[10:11] <bigon> sistpoty: yep I do
[10:12] <sistpoty> great :)
[10:12] <bigon> :)
[10:13] <pkern> sistpoty: I only need to skim the archives for answers? ;)
[10:14] <geser> pwnguin: you can also add it to your .reportbugrc so you don't need to remember it
[10:14] <pwnguin> geser: probably a good idea
[10:15] <sistpoty> pkern: no, the questions I ask solely depend on my mood and on my level of drunkness (though the archives might give some clue)
[10:15] <sistpoty> *g*
[10:17] <erable> Hi, I have made 2 packages. Can somebody test them ?
[10:17] <joejaxx> anyone else running kde4 beta 2? :P
[10:18] <ScottK> joejaxx: #kubuntu-devel will find you several people doing it.
[10:18] <pwnguin> hmm
[10:19] <pwnguin> it seems i need to set up smtp rules to do this... =/
[10:19] <joejaxx> ScottK: thanks :P
[10:19] <joejaxx> :)
[10:21] <pwnguin> hmm. the reportbug manpage suggests one can use an http proxy to submit. is this often used?
[10:24] <norsetto> riddel: looks like slomo is in pre-testing frenzy .....
[10:25] <pkern> sistpoty: Oh well. One needs to be goals! That's not the case when you join Debian!
[10:25] <pkern> sistpoty: Almost nobody is asking you why you join. ;)
[10:28] <erable> Hi, I have made 2 packages (qextserialport and qtsmbstatus). Can somebody check them ?
[10:28] <sistpoty> pkern: hehe
[10:30] <norsetto> erable: are they in revu?
[10:30] <erable> yes
[10:30] <pkern> sistpoty: "Why do you join Ubuntu?" "Fun!?"
[10:31] <norsetto> erable: just paste the links and somebody will have a look at them
[10:31] <pkern> Someone hand me a MOTU Council mail template. It can't be that you got no template for that! :-P
[10:31] <sistpoty> pkern: that doesn't answer your goals for ubuntu (universe) until that's fun as well :P
[10:32] <pkern> sistpoty: To put the fun back into ubfuntu... bah. Bad one.
[10:32] <pkern> *cough* ):
[10:32] <erable> norsetto: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=295 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=286
[10:32] <erable> thanks
[10:32] <pwnguin> "because i hate life, i work on universe"
[10:33] <sistpoty> pkern: check the archives. unfortunately almost each application has the subject "MOTU application" which gave me great deals of pain looking for outstanding applications a few weeks ago
[10:33] <pkern> pwnguin: That would be multiverse.
[10:33] <pwnguin> pkern: paraphrased from mjg
[10:33] <pwnguin> who hates life and makes linux work on laptops
[10:33] <pkern> sistpoty: I saw that, yeah ;)
[10:33] <pwnguin> i daresay its worse than multiverse
[10:34] <pkern> sistpoty: The main point why I am hesitant is because I may not have contributed enough yet.
[10:35] <sistpoty> pkern: but you contributed a lot to debian, did you? others than that merely knowing the community and motu processes is required
[10:35] <sistpoty> (at least that's my POV)
[10:40] <norsetto> erable: before we do anything else, can you make your packages lintian/linda clean?
[10:42] <erable> lintian package.deb return no error. Why this question ?
[10:42] <asisak> norsetto: the new Master "who you should better be frightened"(TM) of the universe
[10:43] <norsetto> erable: they are not clean, check changes and dsc too
[10:43] <norsetto> asisak: can't even frighten my 4 months old kitten ....
[10:44] <geser> norsetto: kittens != MOTU Hopefuls :)
[10:45] <erable> norsetto: OK. I test them (excuse me, I'm a newbies)
[10:45] <norsetto> geser: yes, contributor's fangs are more scary :-)
[10:47] <norsetto> come on guys, am I really scary? Now you scare me ....
[10:47] <ScottK> norsetto: Old guys are scary.
[10:48] <sistpoty> ScottK, norsetto: he, then I'm not scary yet *g*
[10:49] <ScottK> sistpoty: AFAIK you are a genuine youngster.
[10:49] <sistpoty> ScottK: as in 28, but I guess, yes :P
[10:50] <ScottK> Yes.  Definite youngster.
[10:50] <ScottK> I have a vague recollection of being 28.
[10:50] <asisak> Hmm, define "old", please.
[10:50] <_MMA_> ScottK: And you are? :)
[10:50] <ScottK> _MMA_: 44
[10:51] <_MMA_> pffttt..
[10:51] <norsetto> _MMA_: he cheats ;-)
[10:51] <_MMA_> Com on man. Im looking forward to 40s. :)
[10:51] <_MMA_> My kids will be gone then. (hopefully)
[10:53] <ScottK> Well I messed that one up.
[10:53] <ScottK> I have a 4 year old.
[10:54] <Kopfgeldjaeger> good night
[10:54] <ScottK> good night Kopfgeldjaeger
[10:54] <ScottK> Thank goodness for tab completion.
[10:55] <_MMA_> ScottK: Well a docs scissors took care of that problem for me after my 2. ;) Boy=3 Girl=5. Im 31.
[10:55] <sistpoty> gn8 Kopfgeldjaeger
[10:55] <pkern> ScottK: Kopfgeldjger would have been hard I guess. :-P
[10:55] <sistpoty> not for me, unless I'm at uni (american keyboards *g*)
[10:55] <pkern> Those Umlauts still look strange on Gutsy and the standard font in gnome-terminal.
[10:56] <pkern> sistpoty: Compose FTW
[10:56] <pkern> sistpoty: US English keyboard with Compose here. ;)
[10:56] <sistpoty> pkern: I'm used to tex, so I'd rather/faster write "a
[10:57] <asisak> \"a ?
[10:57] <pkern> asisak: Not needed with german package.
[10:57] <ajmitch> morning all
[10:57] <asisak> Hey ajmitch
[10:57] <geser> Hi ajmitch
[10:58] <pkern> Evening ajmitch ;)
[10:58] <ScottK> Good morning ajmitch.
[10:58] <sistpoty> asisak: "{a}, uless you've got some package loaded which I always copy from other tech sources
[10:58] <norsetto> morning ajmitch
[10:58] <sistpoty> hi ajmitch
[10:58] <ajmitch> yay, new server seems to be working well enough
[10:58] <asisak> ajmitch: Can I ask you to approve my UUS application?
[10:58] <imbrandon> hrm anyone familiar with a console picture viewer like LxPic for {DR-,MS-,*}DOS ?
[10:58] <ajmitch> asisak: if you ask nicely
[10:58] <asisak> ajmitch: please to so :)
[10:59] <ajmitch> nicely with $$ helps ;)
[10:59] <ScottK> ajmitch: Please.  He's going to upload the seventy four hundred and two bugs sitting there with .desktop files so the rest of us don't have to feel guilty.
[11:00] <ajmitch> oh alright
[11:00] <norsetto> asisak: nz$ possibly .....
[11:00] <pkern> sistpoty: I'm sure I did everything wrong with that mail, but well.
[11:00] <ajmitch> norsetto: hey they're not that worthless
[11:00] <asisak> ajmitch: are you from New Zealand?
[11:00] <pkern> ajmitch: Gotcha. :-P
[11:00] <sistpoty> pkern: well, might take a while 'till it hits me (-> ubuntu address, -> university server with big delay -> home */10)
[11:01] <ajmitch> asisak: sure
[11:01] <asisak> Wow.
[11:01] <norsetto> ajmitch: don't think I ever seen one actually, and don't tell me they have a picture of a kiwi on it?
[11:01] <asisak> I have never met a guy from New Zealand.
[11:01] <ajmitch> norsetto: of course
[11:01] <ajmitch> asisak: I have
[11:01] <sistpoty> ajmitch: btw.: are you coming to UDS?
[11:01] <ajmitch> sistpoty: no
[11:01] <sistpoty> :(... as this time I'll be around
[11:02] <asisak> ajmitch: thanks :)
[11:02] <pkern> Erlangen... the home of J.B.O... o_O
[11:02] <sistpoty> pkern: ha, used to hear that when I was young (nothing compared to other ppl. in here though :P)
[11:03] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I went last time, and there was no way they'd sponsor me
[11:03] <pkern> sistpoty: /me too. When I was young (about... uh... 14? 15?), too. :-P
[11:04] <sistpoty> ajmitch: I guess I was lucky twice (and unlucky once, since I didn't have the time)
[11:04] <ajmitch> sistpoty: and you've been doing work :)
[11:04] <asisak> Should I unsubscribe Ubuntu-fixed Debian-outstanding bugs from UUS?
[11:04] <ajmitch> (unlike me)
[11:04] <asisak> I asked this before but got not clear answer
[11:04] <sistpoty> pkern: hehe, i guess I still listened to it until 18 or so, but my excuse is that I'm coming from the country originally *g*
[11:05] <sistpoty> ajmitch: work != asking a few questions on MC list :P
[11:05] <ajmitch> sistpoty: far more than I've done
[11:05] <ajmitch> though I'll probably have to pick up on asking questions now
[11:05] <sistpoty> ajmitch: probably, especially for pkern's application :P
[11:06] <ajmitch> yeah...
[11:06] <asisak> ScottK, ajmitch, sistpoty: any ideas?
[11:06] <ajmitch> asisak: if you feel like it
[11:06] <ajmitch> pkern probably knows far more than I do :)
[11:06] <asisak> So you say I should not
[11:06] <asisak> in general, at least
[11:06] <pkern> ajmitch: Doubt that one.
[11:06] <pkern> My mail awaits moderation, heh.
[11:07] <sistpoty> asisak: having not looked at the sponsorship queue for at least 6 month, no idea
[11:07] <ScottK> asisak: Yes.
[11:07] <asisak> sistpoty: sorry :)
[11:07] <ScottK> There's no UUS action, so there's no point in UUS subscribed.
[11:07] <asisak> Okay. I'll do so, since we cannot fix Debian
[11:07] <pkern> And my mail filter munged it into =.debian.motu-council. I guess I have to adapt that one finally. ;)
[11:09] <sistpoty> lol pkern, my debian bugs are in .ubuntu/debian-bugs *g*
[11:10] <Lutin> bigon: ping
[11:10] <bigon> Lutin: pong
[11:12] <Lutin> bigon: I'm a little confused by bug #141015 .. isn't the --path option what you're looking for ?
[11:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141015 in ubuntu-dev-tools "Correctly pass path to dch" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141015
[11:13] <bigon> Lutin: what's the problem?
[11:14] <ScottK> pkern: Why did you joing the IPv6 team and what do you hope to accomplish with that?
[11:14] <Lutin> bigon: what is *your* problem ? :) I don't really understand the issue
[11:15] <pkern> ScottK: I'm also the Debian maintainer of aiccu and I am actively pushing for IPv6.
[11:16] <pkern> ScottK: i.e. I connected networks at university to IPv6, have it at home etc.
[11:16] <pkern> ScottK: I did not yet actively work on IPv6 on Ubuntu apart from having aiccu synced from Debian.
[11:16] <pkern> (I probably should have mentioned that, hm.)
[11:17] <ScottK> You could still put it on your wiki page.
[11:17] <bigon> Lutin: Well running the update-maintainer script in a directory that contains the control file and the changelog will not work unless the directory is named "debian"
[11:17] <pkern> ScottK: Aye.
[11:18] <ScottK> bigon: That's pretty well how it's supposed to work.
[11:19] <bigon> ScottK: well the update-maintainer script correctly update the maintainer field, but failed on adding a changelog entry because dch is looking for debian/changelog
[11:19] <norsetto> asisak: you should see it, its a LION ....
[11:21] <sistpoty> ScottK: btw.: could you forward those direct questions to the MC list if possible? (as we're imho too short of input there, that's why I'm asking questions there all the time *g*)
[11:21] <Lutin> bigon: oh, ok
[11:21] <bigon> Lutin: I'm pretty sure my patch doesn't break anything
[11:22] <mlind_> does syncing a native package from Debian need a UVF exception ?
[11:22] <ScottK> mlind_: Technically no as it's not an upstream version.  Don't do anything insane though.
[11:23] <mlind_> ScottK: okay, thanks. I've been eyeballing cowdancer as it doesn't work as expected in currently in Gutsy
[11:23] <Lutin> bigon: yeah, looks sane. however I can't catch why Hobbsee said it was working even if it wasn't named debian/
[11:23] <Lutin> shouldn't actually
[11:24] <norsetto> lutin: I tried it also and indeed it doesn't
[11:24] <mlind_> ScottK: but is fixed in Debina sid
[11:24] <bigon> Lutin: I don't know
[11:24] <ScottK> mlind_: Sounds like a good sync then.
[11:24] <mlind_> s/Debina/Debian
[11:25] <mlind_> ScottK: right, i'll file a bug about it then
[11:25] <pkern> ScottK: Debian packages which are native are normally upstream versions. Either Debian is upstream directly or upstream maintains it in Debian.
[11:26] <geser> or are mispackaged
[11:26] <norsetto> geser: lol
[11:26] <pkern> geser: ...
[11:26] <ScottK> pkern: I guess it's a matter of perspective.  We don't consider Debian revisions of non-native packages as upstream versions.
[11:26] <pkern> geser: Always looking for the bad? ;)
[11:26] <Lutin> bigon: go for the change if you want, or I'll commit tomorrow. I'm perfectly fine it
[11:26] <Lutin> and thanks :)
[11:26] <pkern> ScottK: Exactly, I didn't say s.th. else.
[11:27] <ScottK> So it's kind of hard to then say every single native package update needs a UVFe.
[11:27] <bigon> Lutin: do it yourself, I'm not a MOTU (yet :)
[11:27] <Lutin> bigon: ok :)
[11:27] <pkern> ScottK: If it's a simple packaging change, then not, yes. ;)
[11:28] <ScottK> So we don't have a hard and fast rule for native packages.
[11:28] <pkern> ScottK: Ok.
[11:29] <pwnguin> is there a definition for native packages?
[11:30] <geser> pwnguin: yes, consists only of a .dsc and .orig.tar.gz (no .diff.gz and no Debian revision)
[11:30] <mlind_> ScottK: I should have asked "UVFe's for native packages where Debian is upstream".
[11:31] <pwnguin> so its a package thats entirely within debian/
[11:31] <geser> pwnguin: no, more like apt and dpkg
[11:32] <pwnguin> i see
[11:32] <geser> software which doesn't have much use outside Debian
[11:32] <ScottK> pkern: Any chance you could take a look at vmware-player and see if you can convince it to use openssl 0.9.8 instead of 0.9.7.  It's the last remaining openssl 0.9.7 rdepend.  It'd be nice to kill that off if we could.
[11:32] <pwnguin> packages that debian is the only sensible upstream for ;)
[11:34] <pkern> ScottK: Well it's multiverse.
[11:34] <pkern>   vmware-player-kernel-modules: Depends: vmware-player-kernel-modules-2.6.20-15 which is a virtual package.
[11:35] <pkern> ScottK: Broken in Gutsy.
[11:35] <pkern> ScottK: i.e. unmetdeps
[11:35] <ScottK> Hmm
[11:35] <pkern> Will go over -source now.
[11:35] <ScottK> What should we do with it then?
[11:35] <ScottK> Thanks
[11:39] <bigon> sistpoty: answered your mail :)
[11:39] <pkern> ScottK: m-a breaks on the -kernel-source.
[11:39] <pkern> ScottK: With `missing debian/control'.
[11:39] <ScottK> That doesn't sound pleasant.
[11:40] <sistpoty> bigon: :)... (might take a while untiul it hits me, and maybe I'll answer it tomorrow then)
[11:40] <bigon> k
[11:40] <sistpoty> s/untiul/until
[11:40] <pkern> ScottK: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vmware-player/
[11:42] <pkern> ScottK: I am not familiar with m-a yet. There are debian/control*in, but I don't know what would trigger a conversion to a debian/control.
[11:43] <pkern> ScottK: Hm... Funny enough it installs module-assistant but README.Debian contains instructions which do not use it.
[11:44] <pkern> ScottK: The 2nd point mentioned in README.Debian only won't work (no Makefile) and kernel-package as suggested in 1 with make-kpkg is no dependency.
[11:44] <pkern> ScottK: That package is just broken.
[11:45] <ScottK> It looks like it's a long time since it was touched in Debian too.
[11:46] <pkern> Same in Ubuntu.
[11:46] <pkern> http://packages.qa.debian.org/v/vmware-package.html is pretty current.
[11:46] <pkern> And supports vmware player.
[11:48] <ScottK> At a glance it looks like the source package for vmware player shifted.
[11:48] <ScottK> Hmmm
[11:48] <ScottK> I need to go play Daddy for a while.  Back later.
[11:48] <ScottK> pkern: I'm curious what you'd recommend to straighten out the mess.
[11:51] <pkern> ScottK: I don't know if Canonical's interests are involved here.
[11:51] <pkern> http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/pool/main/v/vmware-server/
[11:52] <ScottK> pkern: We should just try to "do the right thing" and let them sort it out later if they have to.
[11:53] <pkern> Hm, vmware-package says Please note that the resulting packages files are non-free and non-distributable.
[11:54] <pkern> Did VMware change the licence from player 1.0 to 2.0?
[11:54] <pkern> On a download I need to register.
[11:54] <pkern> ScottK: Personally I would drop it and import vmware-package for those who need it.
[11:55] <pkern> ScottK: The package is outdated and broken.
[11:56] <pkern> Yay, there are even security issues with the version currently in the archives.
[11:57] <tristanbob> who was the community member that was hired by canonical?
[11:57] <tristanbob> recently... trying to find a post about it
[11:58] <erable> I don't understand where is the problem : qextserialport source: substvar-source-version-is-deprecated libqextserialport-dev
[11:58] <pkern> tristanbob: dholbach?
[12:00] <RAOF> erable: That sounds like you've got the -dev package depending on libq...port (= $source-version), which isn't BinNMU safe.
[12:01] <erable> RAOF: OK. Thanks
[12:01] <RAOF> erable: You can check out the Banshee package for an example of a package that does this correctly (although with plugins, not -dev), I believe.
[12:02] <erable> RAOF:  Ok
[12:04] <ScottK> clamav is another one that does it correctly.
[12:05] <RAOF> Ok.  Where is our udev policy?
[12:05] <RAOF> Because it's different from Debian's.
[12:06] <pwnguin> is it?
[12:07] <pkern> ScottK: Will you file a remove request or does your opinion on this differ?
[12:07] <norsetto> time flies ... good night all
[12:07] <pwnguin> RAOF: i think our policy is crimsun must be pleased with offerings
[12:08] <ScottK> pkern: I haven't had time to look at it in detail.
[12:08] <ScottK> Sounds reasonable though.
[12:08] <RAOF> pwnguin: Yes.  For example, packages are expected to install udev rules which set permissions, which is verboten in Debian.
[12:09] <pwnguin> are they?
[12:09] <pwnguin> because i got shot down on that
[12:09] <pwnguin> by quoting debian policy
[12:09] <RAOF> pwnguin: bug #127704
[12:09] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 127704 in kvm "kvm: access to /dev/kvm should have a different group-ownership" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/127704
[12:10] <RAOF> keybuk's comments, particularly.
[12:10] <pwnguin> err
[12:10] <pwnguin> huh
[12:10] <pwnguin> who the heck is crimsun then
[12:11] <RAOF> The (ex) ALSA god?
[12:11] <pwnguin> Remnent is the one i meant =/
[12:11] <Adri2000> pkern: dholbach has been working for canonical for a long time now :) tristanbob: Soren Hansen ?
[12:11] <imbrandon> pwnguin: Scott
[12:11] <imbrandon> ?
[12:11] <pwnguin> i say we double team the guy and ask for a written policy :)
[12:11] <pwnguin> imbrandon: yea
[12:11] <pwnguin> sjr
[12:11] <pkern> ScottK: Should I file it on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/vmware-player/ ?
[12:12] <imbrandon> Scott is Keybuk not crimsun
[12:12] <imbrandon> pwnguin ^
[12:12] <pwnguin> imbrandon: this i have figured out
[12:12] <pwnguin> just now
[12:12] <imbrandon> lol kk
[12:12] <ScottK> pkern: Let me have a look at this.
[12:12] <pwnguin> heh
[12:12] <pwnguin> dont use that either
[12:12] <RAOF> Well, not in Debian.  But how about Ubuntu? :P
[12:13] <pwnguin> this might be something to put on the tech committee agenda =/
[12:14] <ScottK> pkern: I don't see that we have vmware-package in Ubuntu.
[12:14] <RAOF> pwnguin: You know what?  #ubuntu-devel :)
[12:15] <ScottK> RAOF: Maybe so if it crashes in the middle you don't end up with no file at all?
[12:15] <pwnguin> what does directory editing entail?
[12:15] <RAOF> Maybe.  Surely you can do that with directory editing, too?
[12:15] <pwnguin> opening a directory file and editing that?
[12:16] <RAOF> pwnguin: What "mv" does.  You just add a directory entry to the target, pointing at the file, then remove the existing directory entry.
[12:16] <pwnguin> ok
[12:16] <pwnguin> pretty scary to screw that up though
[12:17] <pwnguin> more importantly
[12:17] <pwnguin> cant always do that
[12:17] <RAOF> Tru.
[12:18] <pwnguin> as far as i can tell, it does use mv when it can
[12:18] <RAOF> But it should be just as safe when it's possible (ie: target and dest are on the same filesystem)
[12:18] <RAOF> Not for my Music directory, apparently.
[12:18] <RAOF> Actually, it should be *safer*, since you'll never end up with half-files.
[12:19] <pwnguin> moving between filesystems takes significant time, but at least for me, moving on the same filesystem is very snappy
[12:19] <RAOF> Yeah, that's the behaviour I expected.
[12:20] <pwnguin> thats what i get in feisty
[12:20] <pwnguin> havent checked gutsy
[12:20] <pwnguin> what's more aggrevating is
[12:20] <pwnguin> move is copy and delete if it's within one FS
[12:20] <pwnguin> otherwise, it's just copy
[12:20] <pkern> ScottK: That's why I said `and import it'. It's a bad point of time indeed, but I don't see a point in keeping vmware-player neither.
[12:21] <ScottK> RIght.
[12:21] <ScottK> Missed that.
[12:21] <pwnguin> RAOF: did you want me to look at something in ubuntu-devel?
[12:21] <RAOF> pwnguin: No, just suggesting that we might want to hit that channel for this conversation.
[12:25] <imbrandon> jez i'm fskin bored
[12:26] <imbrandon> arg now i'm blind and bored
[12:26] <imbrandon> but i guess its better than /.
[12:26] <pwnguin> ive got some games in my ppa you can try :P
[12:26] <pwnguin> they basically all came from debian-games though
[12:27] <imbrandon> heh, well i guess i could turn that laptop into a picture frame tonight
[12:28] <ScottK> imbrandon: You could pull boswars from NEW.  I heard it's a pretty good game.
[12:30] <pkern> sistpoty: You didn't copy me, right?
[12:31] <pwnguin> imbrandon: if you're still a motu, you could help me figure out this udev stuff
[12:31] <ajmitch> 'if'
[12:31] <ajmitch> of course he's a MOTU
[12:31] <imbrandon> yea i'm still MOTU and core-dev
[12:31] <imbrandon> heh
[12:32] <pwnguin> i figure some people resign when they hit core
[12:32] <imbrandon> what about udev?
[12:32] <ScottK> pwnguin: That's not how it works.
[12:32] <imbrandon> core is incluseive
[12:32] <imbrandon> of MOTU
[12:32] <ScottK> what imbrandon said
[12:32] <pwnguin> ah
[12:32] <imbrandon> so core is both motu is only motu
[12:32] <pwnguin> i figured they were seperate teams, so core could up and walk away from problems ;)
[12:32] <imbrandon> if that makes since
[12:33] <pwnguin> anyways
[12:33] <imbrandon> nah there are quite a few that are active in both
[12:33] <ajmitch> pwnguin: some people may do that
[12:33] <pwnguin> lets say ive got two packages that want uinput
[12:34] <pkern> ajmitch: Could you redirect me sistpoty's mail? I'll sign up to motu-council in the meantime.
[12:34] <DarkSun88> Night
[12:34] <pwnguin> one is a fingerprint reader, and the other is used to make a wiimote connected via bluetooth into a mouse
[12:34] <pwnguin> is one able to seperate permissions on that?
[12:34] <imbrandon> into a mouse? or via bluetooth as a mouse
[12:35] <ScottK> pkern: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/motu-council/2007-September/000408.html
[12:35] <pkern> ScottK: I don't want to break threading.
[12:35] <pkern> ScottK: I read that one.
[12:35] <ScottK> OK
[12:35] <pwnguin> imbrandon: im not sure as i dont have a bluetooth mouse
[12:35] <imbrandon> seperate permissions how ? as in who can connect/disconnect them ?
[12:35] <pwnguin> but i think they're different
[12:36] <pwnguin> imbrandon: as in, make one owned by root only, and the other owned by a group
[12:36] <imbrandon> hrm never tried that personaly but i'm sure your right a udev rule would do it
[12:36] <pkern> Heh, downloading the mbox works, downloading the gzip version from September did not.
[12:37] <pwnguin> the fingerprint reader is authentication stuff, so i think you dont want to give people control over it =/
[12:37] <ScottK> Ooh. And he's considerate of ML threading.  Another point in his favor.