[12:35] <lassegul> ok i just wasted 20 minuits of my life trying to make an mockup of the gallery thing, just ending up with changing the logo and title of art.gnome.org
[12:37] <lassegul> but I think art.gnome.org thing would suite us very well. Its a gallery with comment function, userlogin, space to write at the top of the page, we just need to change the categories and remove the voting system.
[12:38] <Misosaki> Hi terlmann
[12:38] <andreasn> lassegul: did you see any of the art.gnome.org-redesign-stuff that some soc student was working on?
[12:38] <terlmann> hello
[12:38] <lassegul> andreasn: no, you have a link?
[12:39] <andreasn> lassegul: let me ask thos
[12:39] <terlmann> kwwii : I wanna flame you :-P
[12:39] <kwwii> terlmann: as if you haven't already? :D
[12:39] <terlmann> yea
[12:41] <Misosaki> Hi melaren
[12:41] <terlmann> First of all , that artist you picked was good at real-life imagery. The same does not go for digital art. I would have liked to see a sunset or better yet a sunrise with the morning star visible... A good landscape and a high-res camera would make such a thing breathtaking, and this guy would be good at it.
[12:41] <terlmann> However
[12:41] <terlmann> alll of the slashy picks you uploaded looked like a 8th graders work
[12:42] <kwwii> terlmann: the best way to discuss artwork is to not insult people
[12:42] <terlmann> slashy this and shashes on that and all pretty much the same thing >_<
[12:43] <nothlit> joseph takes a lot of 'light painting' imagery
[12:43] <kwwii> the picture that was included by default was chosen by sabdfl and others, I have little to no say in the matter
[12:43] <nothlit> terlmann: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jciv/322205551/in/set-72157594417940191/
[12:43] <kwwii> people accuse me of doing this and that...they even accuse me of including my own pic
[12:43] <kwwii> silliness really
[12:44] <kwwii> look at the pics at the top of the wiki page and then tell me which pic on the page best represents that
[12:44] <kwwii> troys pics come really close
[12:45] <kwwii> he is in second place, as far as recreating the pics at the top of the wiki page
[12:45] <Misosaki> Hi BHSPitMonkey
[12:45] <kwwii> everyone loved the elephant pic  (myself included) so is also in the default package
[12:45] <kwwii> s/is/it
[12:45] <terlmann> Well I have this to say if nothing else : the definition of quality has gone down since hoary , arguably IMHO the best ever. And we seem set apron erasing all the classical work from long ago and replacing it. as for http://www.flickr.com/photos/jciv/322205551/in/set-72157594417940191/ , it looks like something from a sketchbook, not any kind of truly inspiring art.
[12:45] <BHSPitMonkey> hi
[12:46] <BHSPitMonkey> kwwii, what page?
[12:46] <terlmann> kwwii
[12:46] <kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas
[12:46] <kwwii> the idea that I can somehow change what I was told by my boss to do is just silly
[12:46] <kwwii> we will change things, the next time around
[12:47] <terlmann> I want to dcc you a file that is what I think the work of joeseph and troy should look like, or at least aspire to the same level of detail.
[12:47] <terlmann> give it to your boss
[12:47] <kwwii> but for this release the point was to create something very close and similar to what is at the top of that page
[12:47] <kwwii> terlmann: please do, although that almost never works on my network for some reason
[12:48] <terlmann> it is called plus infinite
[12:48] <andreasn> lassegul: the code is in gnome svn apparently
[12:48] <terlmann> as for creating something that looks like what we had before... I say that is just silly >_<
[12:48] <kwwii> [DCC]  Download of "Plus_Infinite.jpg" from terlmann failed. Reason: Connection failure: timed operation timed out.
[12:48] <terlmann> crap
[12:48] <kwwii> please send me it per email
[12:48] <terlmann> ok
[12:49] <lassegul> andreasn: ok, but I was only using it as an example of what kind of system that would suite or needs.
[12:49] <kwwii> terlmann: it is not my job to question what I have to do, but rather to do it
[12:49] <terlmann> I wanna kick your boss in the rumpus and take his job away :-P
[12:49] <kwwii> terlmann: the next release will be very different but I doubt you will like that either as the rules will be very specific
[12:50] <kwwii> terlmann: earn a few hundred million, buy the company and perhaps you'll have a chance
[12:50] <andreasn> lassegul: apparently the new art.gnome.org isn't ready yet, but anyway, I think it should be fairly easy to just use the art.gnome.org code and adapt it to your own needs
[12:50] <terlmann> the big man controls this personally ?
[12:50] <kwwii> terlmann: yepp
[12:50] <kwwii> him and a few others
[12:51] <terlmann> he is sabfdl or something like that ?
[12:51] <kwwii> until a couple of months ago there was going to be no big changes in anything
[12:51] <andreasn> lassegul: svn.gnome.org/svn/art-web/branches/art-web-3 <- the new art.gnome-stuff
[12:51] <kwwii> I spent most of my time working on the mobile project
[12:51] <kwwii> terlmann: exactly
[12:51] <terlmann> as for his ideas having any merit , I refer his blushing mug to the ubuntu calender
[12:52] <kwwii> terlmann: I intend to start the calender again on a private basis
[12:52] <kwwii> just to piss everyone off
[12:52] <kwwii> :p
[12:52] <kwwii> I liked it
[12:52] <terlmann> well I say get him in here
[12:52] <terlmann> or try to
[12:52] <kwwii> no chance
[12:52] <terlmann> I would like to speak person to person .... no more wandering off into space ( pun intended )
[12:53] <kwwii> he knows what he wants, the fact that certain people do not like that is simply the way the world works
[12:53] <kwwii> after all, he did make one of the most popular linux distris with his own ideas
[12:54] <kwwii> I would rather work for someone who knows exactly what he wants and makes a few mistakes from time to time than a huge company that restricts anyone from doing anything really new and interesting again and again
[12:54] <kwwii> that was how it felt to work for novell
[12:55] <terlmann> Well I like ubuntu , but ol mark there is a bit eccentric.. and that makes for some hard fighting when it comes to the small details...
[12:55] <kwwii> working for canonical reminds me of working for suse when it was only 50 people (the good old days)
[12:55] <kwwii> terlmann: yes, it does but nobody ever said that it was a democracy
[12:55] <terlmann> Suse is great... RPM's are something I would expect to see in hell though...
[12:56] <terlmann> .deb for heaven , .rpm for hell.... .ebuild for purgatory.. lol
[12:56] <kwwii> SuSE was great, in the meantime it is no longer what it once was
[12:56] <kwwii> now it is simply a small part of a big company
[12:56] <kwwii> novell sucks
[12:56] <kwwii> I spent weeks at novell defending suse
[12:56] <kwwii> they wanted to kill the name and logo
[12:56] <melaren> Hi Misosaki :)
[12:57] <kwwii> leaving SuSE when I did was one of the best things that I did, career-wise
[12:57] <kwwii> and I spent 7 years giving my heart and soul to suse
[12:57] <kwwii> anyway
[12:58] <terlmann> kwwii : I say ubuntu revise the debian policies
[12:58] <terlmann> like packaging formats
[12:58] <terlmann> and tools
[12:58] <terlmann> those things are years old
[12:58] <terlmann> the new millenia needs new things
[12:58] <terlmann> I agree debian based packaging is the current best in the world , but I think it could use improvement
[12:59] <terlmann> and I would like to shoot the guy who implemented installing from a live enviroment
[12:59] <terlmann> My system hates him
[12:59] <terlmann> live disks are just evil
[01:00] <terlmann> I wants my install disk back... looking something like the fedora core dvd did...
[01:00] <kwwii> hehe, that is one of the things I like the most
[01:00] <terlmann> email sent
[01:00] <terlmann> check it out
[01:00] <kwwii> being able to know exactly what will work and what will not work in advance
[01:01] <terlmann> well for a i686 machine with ide and hardware from 2002 ... my system is rather simple
[01:02] <terlmann> I bought a gig of ram from newegg today but the purchase won't go through.. I am going to give my bank a headache tommarow for this...
[01:02] <kwwii> terlmann: that pic has way too much contrast to put icons on top of
[01:02] <kwwii> and it does not fit at all with the oolor scheme
[01:02] <kwwii> color
[01:03] <kwwii> I admit that many people would love it for their desktop
[01:03] <kwwii> it does look pretty nifty
[01:03] <kwwii> but that is not default install material
[01:03] <kwwii> sorry
[01:03] <kwwii> not to be mean or rude
[01:03] <terlmann> I did not reccomend the picture itself
[01:04] <terlmann> the color is not at all the point
[01:04] <terlmann> the use of the depth in the picture to draw something...
[01:04] <terlmann> that is important.
[01:05] <terlmann> look at all the art we have produced so far (officially) . every release has futured a picture that serves almost as a BLUEPRINT or fingerprint of Ubuntu
[01:05] <terlmann> simple curves do not hint of unique quality
[01:07] <nothlit> andreasn: the art.gnome. backend code is available?
[01:08] <nothlit> andreasn: is it homebrewed or modified?
[01:08] <kwwii> terlmann: I promise that we will go in a totally different direction for hardy if that helps
[01:08] <andreasn> nothlit: yeah, it's there in svn, um, don't know how it's made exactly
[01:08] <BHSPitMonkey> I still want to code my idea for a dynamic wallpaper
[01:08] <kwwii> terlmann: also, you have to know that the plan is not to change drastically from release to release
[01:09] <kwwii> we want to keep a general idea between LTS releases
[01:09] <kwwii> so that one feels a natural evolution
[01:09] <terlmann> well I wanna tell him to let me make the plan :-P .. I will make a whiz-bang release !!
[01:10] <kwwii> this is my second release working on ubuntu so nobody can blame me for not making things perfect
[01:10] <nothlit> i wonder if that will lead to staleness in between LTS
[01:10] <terlmann> stale yes. unspicy no.
[01:10] <kwwii> nothlit: some will see it that way but if we define that as part of the plan there is no way around it
[01:10] <terlmann> I plan to argue my way into oblivion
[01:10] <kwwii> I think it is a good idea
[01:11] <kwwii> there is no reason to completely reinvent things every time
[01:11] <kwwii> but the idea of completely recreating the wheel every time is silly as well
[01:11] <kwwii> evolution is the key
[01:11] <kwwii> not stagnation
[01:11] <kwwii> but for that we need really good artists
[01:12] <terlmann> well to make the wheel over so it looks the same is important... but the quality of anything degrades as time goes on.
[01:12] <kwwii> we are only talking about a couple of releases before things change again
[01:12] <terlmann> I am a really good artist.. well sorta.. I am a master at gimping at least
[01:12] <BHSPitMonkey> it'd be better if you were a master at inkscaping
[01:13] <terlmann> actually inkscape is not my fave
[01:13] <terlmann> I prefer the gimp
[01:13] <kwwii> being able to edit artwork and being able to create new artwork are two different things
[01:13] <BHSPitMonkey> <3 inkscape
[01:13] <terlmann> you wanna see some of my work
[01:13] <BHSPitMonkey> <3 <3 <3
[01:13] <terlmann> original mind you
[01:13] <terlmann> gimping is not all about alteration
[01:13] <kwwii> gimp is ok, if you can create something nice with it
[01:13] <nothlit> gimp is perfectly fine for concepts, wallpapers etc
[01:13] <terlmann> I can make art in it too
[01:13] <kwwii> I make no limits as to the tools ones use
[01:14] <kwwii> I prefer svgs as it is more flexible but that is not a rule
[01:14] <nothlit> inkscape is not the end-all and be all of everything, it is a great, if slow app, but it isn't supposed to be used <everywhere>
[01:14] <BHSPitMonkey> the world needs more svg wizards
[01:14] <kwwii> heck, make the perfect pic with MS paint and I will still accept it
[01:15] <alex-weej> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntulooks/+bug/145004
[01:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145004 in ubuntulooks "Implement GtkExpander styling (Code, Screenshot)" [Undecided,New] 
[01:15] <alex-weej> for gutsy!
[01:15] <BHSPitMonkey> alex-weej, uh huh
[01:15] <BHSPitMonkey> alex-weej, find a calendar
[01:15] <nothlit> are there even any coders in here lol
[01:15] <alex-weej> BHSPitMonkey: ?
[01:16] <alex-weej> i'm sorry i don't understand what you mean, BHSPitMonkey
[01:16] <BHSPitMonkey> alex-weej, more like "for hardy"
[01:17] <nothlit> beta freeze has passed
[01:17] <kwwii> elephant in my eyes is one of the best pieces of artwork that has happened for ubuntu in a long time but one does have to admit that it looks quite dirty by nature and does not reflect what we are trying to create for gutsy
[01:17] <alex-weej> there's a hard code freeze now?
[01:17] <terlmann> sabdfl@ubuntu.com ? is that where I should send a self-dampened flame ?
[01:17] <dmccal1> nothlit: Coders, eh? I can code, but whether you would want me to depends on what it is ;)
[01:17] <terlmann> kwwii : what about lionmane ?
[01:18] <kwwii> terlmann: does that reflect the pics at the top of the wiki page to you? (honestly?)
[01:18] <terlmann> sorta
[01:18] <BHSPitMonkey> kwwii, "Linux for Elephants" :)
[01:18] <terlmann> to me
[01:18] <terlmann> yes
[01:18] <terlmann> more so than the other one
[01:18] <terlmann> elephant
[01:18] <terlmann> wayy more so
[01:18] <kwwii> looking at the forum and wiki page elephant has clearly won
[01:18] <terlmann> you said you might include my art :-)
[01:18] <dmccal1> One thing I know is we really need a post-install script to let us rename those wallpapers. The stuck name problem is ridiculous and needs a fix, pronto!
[01:18] <terlmann> I put it up on it's own page
[01:18] <kwwii> terlmann: it will be included in the community package
[01:18] <dmccal1> Elephant may win, but I don't think it would do to call it "SimpleUbuntu"
[01:19] <kwwii> dmccal1: definitely
[01:19] <terlmann> kwii : and about the toolbars.. someone said something about polishing it up... it would be simple to implement such a hing
[01:19] <kwwii> dmccal1: if i had known about this in advance I would have had it changed
[01:19] <kwwii> it just came up this morning
[01:19] <terlmann> transparency in a sense
[01:19] <kwwii> and believe me, I screamed
[01:19] <dmccal1> Should be possible to pop it in as a bug report
[01:19] <terlmann> the glasspanel page was good
[01:19] <BHSPitMonkey> I think the ubuntu logo on elephant needs to be closer to white
[01:19] <dmccal1> And not hard to fix
[01:20] <dmccal1> Just a script that runs for a user then disables itself
[01:20] <kwwii> there should be no logo in the wallpaper at all
[01:20] <terlmann> the elephant theme is good. what about branding it :-P
[01:20] <kwwii> unless it is part of the design
[01:20] <terlmann> well the branding like I did ? where it is burn-in ?
[01:20] <terlmann> is that ok ?
[01:21] <BHSPitMonkey> the animal wallpapers struck me as really nice login screens
[01:21] <terlmann> or is that going to drive the animal crazies up their trees ?
[01:21] <terlmann> pitmonkey : we need something like the avio theme
[01:21] <terlmann> for gdm
[01:21] <dmccal1> I preferred the lion background, myself. The elephant's brown is sort of artificial, whereas lions really are naturally brown
[01:22] <dmccal1> On the other hand, there is a better chance of that elephant skin still being attached to a living elephant, since elephants are huge
[01:22] <lassegul> dmccal1: elephants usually are pretty brown because of the mud :)
[01:22] <terlmann> I will get the elephant skin and make it into a gdm theme . is that ok ?
[01:22] <BHSPitMonkey> terlmann, use tab-completion and full IRC nicks when addressing somebody please
[01:23] <nothlit> terlmann: i think damian sent the source images to troy to work on a complete theme
[01:23] <nothlit> don't quote me on that though
[01:23] <terlmann> I'm going to beat him to it
[01:23] <terlmann> gimme a sec
[01:23] <BHSPitMonkey> "<nothlit> terlmann: i think damian sent the source images to troy to work on a complete theme"
[01:23] <lassegul> terlmann: thats the spirit
[01:24] <nothlit> darkmatter: heyas
[01:24] <nothlit> darkmatter: any further on glory-simplex? :P
[01:24] <kwwii> I have the source images as well if anyone wants them
[01:24] <kwwii> send me an email
[01:24] <kwwii> for now, I am going to bed
[01:24] <kwwii> 1:24 am here
[01:24] <lassegul> same here. ill see you guys tomorrow.
[01:24] <darkmatter> nothlit : been a bit busy of late, so no, nothing official yet
[01:25] <nothlit> wait, UDS?
[01:25] <nothlit> have you invited damian or anything?
[01:25] <Misosaki> Laters kwwii and lassegul
[01:25] <nothlit> darkmatter: ah ok
[01:25] <terlmann> sleep well and shot
[01:25] <terlmann> short
[01:26] <kwwii> :-)
[01:26] <terlmann> long nights are the worst
[01:26] <nothlit> darkmatter: i look forward to any progress you may make in the future :)
[01:26] <lassegul> yeah see you Misosaki. terlmann take it easy
[01:26] <kwwii> I have to get up at 6:30 to make sure my son goes to school
[01:26] <kwwii> I get about 4 hours of sleep a night
[01:26] <terlmann> I finished this year :_)
[01:26] <darkmatter> nothlit : :)
[01:26] <Misosaki> :)
[01:26] <kwwii> so no worries on me sleeping too much
[01:26] <kwwii> night all
[01:28] <darkmatter> welp, time to play some WoW xD
[01:31] <dmccall> Kind of off topic, but does anyone here have an opinion on those Wacom Bamboo tablets? They're a tad simplified, but very sleek and inexpensive. I'm looking forward to where they go with them :)
[01:33] <Misosaki> Bamboo tablets? Haven't seen them for sale here :(
[01:33] <Misosaki> At least not in the reg retail chains
[01:37] <swj> so what does everyone think of the brown fluid update?
[01:37] <kwwii_away> dmccall: I have two tablets, I suggest getting the biggest one possible
[01:37] <Misosaki> Hi swj
[01:37] <kwwii_away> swj: I would be interested in that as well
[01:37] <swj> hi
[01:37] <nothlit> Bamboo?
[01:38] <kwwii_away> not the one that was included in the beta though
[01:38] <nothlit> I have a 9x12 intuos2, but I mostly use my tabletpc
[01:38] <kwwii_away> it was messed up (not my fault)
[01:38] <terlmann> done
[01:38] <nothlit> I've found the supposed doubling in pressure sensitivity doesn't make a difference at all, or at least with the sampling rate
[01:38] <terlmann> transformation complete
[01:39] <terlmann> gdm theme done
[01:39] <swj> it is lighter, but I can see a green tone through in lighter areas.  1280x1024 Samsung LCD 50 Hz
[01:39] <terlmann> will upload it to your email at once ,and if anyone wants a dcc...
[01:41] <swj> in fact a lot of green
[01:42] <kwwii_away> swj: in which version?
[01:43] <kwwii_away> the beta version or the one I posted this evening to the mailing list?
[01:43] <terlmann> hey does anyone here want me to dcc them a copy of my submission for the new gdm theme?
[01:43] <terlmann> it is the elephant on a Avio inteface
[01:43] <swj> kwwii the newest update
[01:44] <nothlit> swj: do you see green on this one? http://sinecera.de/warty-final-ubuntu.png
[01:45] <terlmann> uploading my gz'd tar file now...
[01:45] <terlmann> kwwii_away : get some sleep man. It will save your life someday.
[01:46] <terlmann> http://www.mediafire.com/?12wmssldhwy
[01:46] <terlmann> is where my file is at
[01:46] <terlmann> 500 kilobytes
[01:46] <terlmann> don't everyone rush and get it now
[01:46] <swj> kwii a lot less but it is still there...also in that version there are added artifacts...it almost seemed that someone colored the image and as a result its not looking just right...well at least that the same look I get when I try to color an image ;)
[01:46] <terlmann> you might strain a muscle
[01:47] <terlmann> does anyone here package for gutsy ?
[01:48] <kwwii_away> all the artwork packaging was done by me...but don't ask me for help on this
[01:48] <kwwii_away> anyway, I am sleeping now
[01:48] <kwwii_away> swj: I do not see any green in that pic
[01:48] <terlmann> crap
[01:48] <kwwii_away> time for me to buy another external monitor
[01:48] <terlmann> my gdm theme is broken
[01:49] <kwwii_away> terlmann: just check out another gdm theme and edit is as you need
[01:49] <swj> the green exists more to the bottom right
[01:49] <kwwii_away> ask dholbach or someone to help you as needed
[01:49] <kwwii_away> -devel is your friend
[01:49] <terlmann> kwii
[01:50] <terlmann> go to sleep
[01:50] <terlmann> brb guys
[01:50] <terlmann> gonna go test my theme :-)
[01:50] <swj> it was dark brown but in the process of making lighter...I guess is what did it...I have seen it before
[01:50] <kwwii_away> swj: the point of posting that pic was to avoid problems, so if anyone else mentions that I will try and fix it
[01:51] <kwwii_away> yeah, sleep now
[01:51] <swj> mind if I post it to the forums or have you already?
[01:52] <kwwii_away> swj: please post it, I am not active on the forum -  I am sure that lots of people will still complain though
[01:52] <terlmann> I did it !
[01:52] <swj> thanks
[01:52] <terlmann> it works
[01:52] <terlmann> now just to tweek it a little
[01:53] <kwwii_away> I do want to make as many people happy as possible so post it in a good way
[01:53] <kwwii_away> not "kwwii is telling us that this is what he wants" or such
[01:53] <kwwii_away> anyway
[01:53] <kwwii_away> I am out now
[01:53] <kwwii_away> for good
[02:04] <swj> has everyone seen the original "brown" fluid
[02:04] <swj> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jciv/322205551/in/set-72157594417940191/
[02:04] <swj> or I should call it blue fluid
[02:05] <terlmann> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas now contains a gdm section !!
[02:05] <terlmann> enjoy
[02:05] <terlmann> and this time it work
[02:05] <terlmann> works
[02:05] <terlmann> so get your copy right now. It is only 200kb.
[02:06] <terlmann> as a matter of fact.. I should put a screenshot up..
[02:06] <swj> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jciv/sets/72157594417940191/
[02:07] <dmccall> terlmann: That there is a nice GDM theme. Icons seem a tad inconsistent with the rest of the desktop, though. (They're prettier icons, actually :b)
[02:08] <dmccall> It may rekindle the "elephant for president" debate, however
[02:08] <dmccall> err, default*
[02:12] <nothlit> terlmann: your download link: Description: Ubuntu Gutsy GDM Theme
[02:12] <nothlit> to download this file use "Internet Explorer"
[02:12] <nothlit> ADSTechnology
[02:12] <nothlit> Please open this link in "Internet Explorer"
[02:12] <terlmann> not at all
[02:13] <_MMA_> Just a little FYI. Updates have been made: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming
[02:13] <nothlit> i'm using opera btw
[02:13] <terlmann> my latest link ( the one on the gutsy page) is a clean file linl
[02:13] <terlmann> link
[02:13] <terlmann> MMA
[02:13] <terlmann> I had a hardy page up weeks ago :-P
[02:13] <terlmann> but its not for studio
[02:13] <terlmann> :_)
[02:14] <_MMA_> ;)
[02:14] <nothlit> terlmann: thats what i'm getting from http://fileho.com/download/8e4a67948335/Ubuntu-fresh.tar.gz.html , even masking as FF
[02:15] <nothlit> masking as ie asks me to install a .exe
[02:27] <terlmann> hmmmmm
[02:37] <terlmann> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HardyIdeas is complete and fully ready. please view.
[02:37] <nothlit> terlmann: uhh
[02:37] <nothlit> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy
[02:39] <terlmann> it was GutsyIdeas
[02:39] <terlmann> it is HardyIdeas
[02:39] <terlmann> nuff said
[02:39] <terlmann> o nothit
[02:39] <terlmann> you lose
[02:39] <terlmann> Mine is better :-)
[02:39] <nothlit> theres nothing to lose
[02:39] <Misosaki> terlmann: Er ... some of the WallpaperRules might have changed.
[02:40] <terlmann> nothit
[02:40] <nothlit> anyways, thats the one on the front page and set out in mail
[02:40] <_MMA_> terlmann: How old are you?
[02:40] <terlmann> please feel free to alter the page i made..
[02:40] <terlmann> and please merge them
[02:40] <Misosaki> nothlit was originally doing some of the documentation, but kwwii did advise waiting until the Tues meeting when we get the process down
[02:40] <terlmann> MMA
[02:40] <terlmann> 22
[02:40] <Misosaki> To avoid hasty or cause confusion
[02:41] <terlmann> nothit : you can see mine is more well formed , but you do have some semblence of what the rules will be...
[02:41] <_MMA_> Ok. That just looked a little "preteen" there. ;)
[02:41] <Misosaki> Maybe at the Tues meeting you can suggest to kwwii and let him and everyone else know you'd like to help cover documentation
[02:41] <nothlit> there is some hidden stuff
[02:41] <nothlit> but i hope you are aware that people have already contributed to the linked pages
[02:42] <terlmann> please update the emails and front page to point to whichever adress you like , but please merge them.. the one I made you can clearly see is pretty good
[02:42] <Misosaki> terlmann: Please, kwwii advised waiting until Tues or when we get the process straightened out and clear with everyone.
[02:42] <masta> evening
[02:42] <Misosaki> Hi masta
[02:43] <masta> can anyone update me on if anythings being done with the default wallpaper for gutsy?
[02:43] <terlmann> Misosaki : read the page I made.. I say clearly that the rules will be specified by kwwii at a later date..
[02:43] <Misosaki> terlmann, if you would like to do the documentation, you'd probably be most welcomed to it ... but we should get the info down and clear first.
[02:44] <Misosaki> terlmann: There's a link to the WallpaperRules ... and some of the items there might no longer apply.
[02:44] <Misosaki> masta: There are improvements underway for the default wallpaper.
[02:44] <terlmann> yea I know
[02:44] <terlmann> I will alter those tonight
[02:45] <terlmann> I got some pointers
[02:45] <masta> sweet. thanks Misosaki
[02:45] <Misosaki> masta: Or rather, there have been already, so if you think it could be improved, please drop by again and let kwwii know. He's away at the moment.
[02:45] <Misosaki> masta: Np.
[02:46] <masta> alright, i was hoping more along the lines of it would be changing, but suggestions is a step. thanks again.
[02:46] <Misosaki> terlmann: Please do. If others see this and already start on things thinking that this is what it's going to be, then efforts will be wasted if things changed.
[02:46] <Misosaki> (As things are almost certainly bound to change)
[02:47] <terlmann> http://myfreefilehosting.com/f/f599867d19_0.25MB
[02:47] <terlmann> there is the gdm theme
[02:47] <terlmann> for anyone who wants it
[02:48] <Misosaki> terlmann: Will take a look. Thanks for sharing.
[02:48] <terlmann> nothit : I leave the alteration of the /artwork/wallpaperrules file to you. the only thing I can do to improve them at this moment is to most nearly copy the contents of your page :-P
[02:50] <terlmann> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/ConceptArt is one to merge with hardyincoming
[02:50] <terlmann> so you do it how you want
[02:50] <terlmann> just don't let my time go to waste please , this stuff isn't randomly generated :-P
[02:56] <nothlit> Yeah, working on merging some of it now
[02:56] <nothlit> i'll see about more of it after the meeting and things have been discusses such as resolutions etc
[02:57] <terlmann> hey nothit
[02:57] <terlmann> you have ddc on?
[02:57] <nothlit> i can accept files yes
[02:57] <terlmann> do you like landscape art or digital?
[02:57] <nothlit> as long as you're not using the passive type
[02:57] <nothlit> sure
[02:57] <nothlit> i don't mind looking at anybody's art
[02:58] <terlmann> this is the best , IMHO
[02:59] <terlmann> its not sending
[02:59] <terlmann> would you please take this and share it around to your friends ?
[03:00] <terlmann> or just keep it to yourself
[03:01] <nothlit> sorry, i'm using an irssi proxy, forget to check the actual irc
[03:02] <nothlit> i can distribute the images as appropriate if you want
[03:02] <terlmann> if you like night-time art I have the best picture of that kind ever too, but it is pitch black in parts :-)
[03:02] <terlmann> no I am just sharing with fellow artists
[03:02] <terlmann> these are royalty free works but not mine
[03:03] <Misosaki> Whose are they, if you don't mind the asking?
[03:03] <terlmann> various artists
[03:03] <terlmann> I forget the names , but the pictures should have something in the tags or file name
[03:04] <terlmann> I get them off various sites
[03:04] <terlmann> I am always in the mood to surf looking for good art :-)
[03:05] <terlmann> Misosaki : ever hear of worth1000 ?
[03:05] <Misosaki> Yeah
[03:05] <terlmann> well these are far better than you will find ther
[03:05] <terlmann> for example
[03:05] <Misosaki> Heheh
[03:06] <terlmann> here
[03:06] <terlmann> here is the example and the only one of it's speciality to be worth keeping , IMHO
[03:06] <nothlit> hmm one place we could look for artists
[03:06] <nothlit> is cgsociety, especially matte painters, and search for ubuntu users
[03:06] <terlmann> well google the artist names
[03:07] <terlmann> and look specially at deviantart
[03:07] <terlmann> you boneheada
[03:07] <terlmann> look at this for me
[03:07] <terlmann> this is a special artist
[03:07] <terlmann> here
[03:07] <terlmann> take a file
[03:08] <terlmann> Misosaki I am sending you a diff file for looking at
[03:08] <terlmann> please take :-)
[03:08] <terlmann> <3
[03:08] <Misosaki> Can you link to it instead of dcc? Thx
[03:08] <terlmann> (+)
[03:08] <terlmann> um.. ok
[03:08] <Misosaki> Just easier, thanks
[03:08] <terlmann> not really
[03:09] <terlmann> I dont have the original link
[03:09] <Misosaki> Well, is the artist on dA?
[03:09] <Misosaki> aiRaGe?
[03:09] <terlmann> found him
[03:09] <terlmann> yea
[03:09] <terlmann> airage
[03:09] <terlmann> he has one I see
[03:09] <Misosaki> Okay ...
[03:09] <terlmann> as a matter of fact i think I found it there...
[03:10] <terlmann> isobolax.deviantart.com is where you must go
[03:10] <terlmann> for the ubuntu best artist
[03:10] <terlmann> I have seen
[03:10] <terlmann> at least at making landscapes
[03:11] <terlmann> deviantart is where the real artists and the crappy ones all have homes
[03:12] <terlmann> ratio of crappy to good is 1000 to 1
[03:12] <terlmann> but you can find the better art linked to elsewhere
[03:12] <nothlit> No page exists at your destination address, http://isobolax.deviantart.com/, but the deviantART home page should help you to find what you need.
[03:12] <terlmann> hold on
[03:13] <terlmann> http://djust.deviantart.com/art/Ubuntu-33902317 omg
[03:13] <terlmann> found this while searching for iso
[03:14] <terlmann> take a peek
[03:18] <terlmann> slaps head again
[03:18] <terlmann> izobalax
[03:20] <terlmann> nothlit : go here http://izobalax.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=24
[03:20] <terlmann> some very good stuff
[03:21] <terlmann> good enough for official release
[03:21] <terlmann> good enough to be payed for it
[03:21] <nothlit> lol, aqua human
[03:22] <nothlit> ok, i'll bookmark them and ask them when i have a chance
[03:25] <terlmann> I was thinking about something
[03:26] <terlmann> what about trying some .gif animation in the future ?
[03:26] <terlmann> or including a reduced set of enlightenment libs and apps to draw the background ( also animated )
[03:26] <terlmann> what would you guys think ?
[03:27] <terlmann> what if the clock was part of the background and so was the calander ?
[03:27] <terlmann> we could do it with enlightenment
[03:27] <terlmann> bit difficult,,,, but think of the coolness !!
[03:27] <terlmann> we would 1-up every other os out there
[03:28] <terlmann> every single one
[03:28] <nothlit> lol, enlightenment
[03:28] <nothlit> if were were to do it it would have to be with widgets
[03:29] <nothlit> since compiz-fusion is the default (unfortunately)
[03:29] <nothlit> you could probably push for some screenlets
[03:30] <_MMA_> The clean desktop policy would most likely nix that idea.
[03:31] <terlmann> well the enlightenment would only paint the root window
[03:31] <terlmann> not really be running
[03:31] <terlmann> in a interactive sense
[03:32] <terlmann> screenlets and widgets , in all varieties , are currently brocken
[03:32] <terlmann> broken
[03:32] <nothlit> ubuntu is not going to move away from metacity themes
[03:32] <terlmann> nothlit : did you hear me ? I said only painting the root window~
[03:32] <terlmann> gnome and metacity can be layered on top
[03:33] <nothlit> enlightenment can coexist with a seperate window manager?
[03:33] <terlmann> yea
[03:33] <nothlit> this is an e16 desktop management application?
[03:33] <terlmann> actually it is an ingergal component of e17
[03:33] <terlmann> and it is very cool
[03:33] <terlmann> google howto e17 feisty
[03:33] <terlmann> it works
[03:33] <terlmann> I have used it many times
[03:34] <terlmann> enlightenment as a gnome replacement is worthless.... but to use it only to do root window painting would still be a worthy task ... and give a great deal of animating power to the artista
[03:34] <terlmann> you can make realtime stuff
[03:34] <terlmann> films even
[03:35] <terlmann> and interactive elements like a logo that sends out waves when you pass the cursor over
[03:41] <dmccall> Clock hard-coded onto the background would be a bit fugly, I think. I have been playing with a Gnome Panel that gives desklet-like behaviour simply by staying below other windows, and that could get the job done just as well under a single already existing infrastructure
[03:42] <dmccall> instead of wasting resources, time, stability and sanity by having a whole other program doing desktop decorations
[03:42] <_MMA_> SLEDs new International Clock is all the clock I need. ;)
[03:43] <dmccall> Although, what would be really cool is some way to have file previews of stuff inside a directory drawn onto that directory's icon
[03:44] <nothlit> what we really need is for nautilus not to be slow, and lock up for no reason first
[03:44] <nothlit> for no good reason*
[03:45] <dmccall> Unfortunately, that happens to be a feature in Vista, so may not be worth it to be accused of copying them unless it's a miraculously uncomplicated thing to achieve. I'm not well versed on SVGs, but it seems that text can be sent for them dynamically... can images be passed, too?
[03:45] <nothlit> two seperate projects lol
[03:46] <nothlit> with two seperate things integrated in
[03:46] <terlmann> Nautilus rules
[03:46] <terlmann> rules man
[03:46] <terlmann> RULES
[03:46] <terlmann> at least on my system
[03:48] <dmccall> Although even Thunar is pretty imperfect now, too, aside from its speed. We need integration between file choosers and the file manager, for example. There needs to be a centralized "Places" system in Gnome, including bookmarks and tagging
[03:48] <dmccall> (Tagging being also a replacement to Emblems)
[03:48] <nothlit> whats really annoying me is that theres no place that i can find
[03:48] <nothlit> that defines where ~/.gtk-bookmarks are opened
[03:49] <dmccall> As it is, every Places menu lists different places, and no two bookmarks menus are the same unless they have been set up to be that way in a horrible manner
[03:49] <nothlit> so if it leave it as is, it opens it in pcmanfm, if i uninstall that, it opens it in thunar, if i uninstall that, it opens it in nautilus
[03:49] <nothlit> and i've grepped through config files like mad
[03:55] <nothlit> wow
[03:55] <nothlit> they've started a petition, and put it on digg
[03:55] <_MMA_> Who is "they"?
[03:55] <nothlit> the angry forum people
[03:56] <nothlit> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=555477&page=31
[03:57] <_MMA_> lol. Wow. With _ALL_ the things wrong in the world. I just dont see how its worth the energy. :)
[04:04] <terlmann> I think xfce is just a stripped down gnome
[04:04] <terlmann> gnome rules
[04:04] <terlmann> nuff said
[04:05] <terlmann> and nautilus is soo much more powerful than thunar
[04:05] <terlmann> I cannot number the diffs
[04:05] <dmccall> Nautilus is pretty cool for a lot of things. Gnome VFS is under-rated :)
[04:06] <terlmann> in any case the only thing I would like to see is reduced memory usage
[04:06] <terlmann> especially the gnome panel
[04:06] <terlmann> had it using 20 mb one time
[04:06] <nothlit> gnome-vfs is sort of broken
[04:06] <nothlit> any non-normal fs, gets stuck or slows down to bytes after 24 megs
[04:08] <terlmann> (:)
[04:08] <terlmann> .nick terl_away
[04:09] <terl_away> O I O I O just go my way!!
[04:11] <`23meg> gnomevfs is being phased out btw
[04:11] <dmccall> Indeed :(
[04:11] <dmccall> They keep phasing stuff out, but not phasing anything in
[04:11] <dmccall> Kinda weird
[04:11] <dmccall> Confuses me
[04:11] <`23meg> how can they not phase in anything in place of gnomevfs?
[04:11] <`23meg> gvfs is on the way
[09:05] <troy_s> Wow... who did the 'orange' on the wiki?
[09:09] <nothlit> troy_s: misosaki attached them
[09:09] <Madpilot> link?
[09:09] <troy_s> Did misosaki do them?>
[09:10] <nothlit> i have to assume so
[09:12] <troy_s> It is unfortunate that the page has now turned into a 'hey let's completely ignore what kwwii posted at the top in terms of tone and content'
[10:31] <kwwii> hi troy_s
[10:31] <kwwii> yeah, too bad
[10:32] <kwwii> moin all
[10:32] <nothlit> kwwii: hey how open is this meeting? should i publicise it? or just leave it to those who bother to read the mailing list/irc
[10:33] <nothlit> morning
[10:33] <kwwii> nothlit: sending an email with agenda in a bit, after I dig the sand out of my eyes
[10:33] <kwwii> nothlit: totally open, it is on the fridge (I think it is already there at least) and it will be in ubuntu-meeting
[10:34] <nothlit> kwwii: so we can invite the forumers etc?
[10:34] <nothlit> cool, you got a spot
[10:35] <kwwii> nothlit: we can post it on the forum but we need to make very clear that it is not about gutsy
[10:35] <nothlit> ok, great
[10:35] <nothlit> i sent you an email about uds btw
[10:36] <kwwii> I have about 50 some emails to read up on from last night
[10:36] <nothlit> np
[10:45] <nothlit> kwwii: do you know whos in charge of art.u.c? i spoke to troy, he says hes not in charge and redirected me to a possible lead who hasn't responded yet
[10:46] <kwwii> andreasn: nope, I have no idea who is responsible for that
[10:49] <nothlit> ok, anyways, this looks like a nice simple open source gallery application we could configure and repurpose http://www.plogger.org/demo/
[10:54] <kwwii> lol, I am too tired
[11:09] <kwwii> hrm, where should I put the topics for the meeting on the wiki?
[11:10] <lassegul> Good morning peeps
[11:11] <nothlit> Incoming/Hardy/Meeting == Meeting 1 == ?
[11:13] <titanix88> hi kwwii
[11:13] <kwwii> hi titanix88
[11:14] <kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Meetings
[11:15] <kwwii> lol, forgot the time
[11:18] <kwwii> anyone see anything that I left out there?
[11:19] <nothlit> explanation of sabdfl wants and likes? dunno
[11:19] <nothlit> i'm going to add some time zones in
[11:20] <kwwii> cool
[11:20] <lassegul> no it looks nice. time zones are good.
[11:20] <kwwii> I think it is enought to explain that he is in charge for now
[11:28] <`23meg> hi all
[11:28] <`23meg> just posted to the forum thread about the meeting
[11:30] <kwwii> :p
[11:32] <artnay> `23meg: maybe it should be posted to appropriate part of forum, let's say art and design. now it's in a thread that is supposed to focus on totally different topic.
[11:33] <nothlit> ok, updated time zones
[11:33] <`23meg> artnay, I did state that it's not about the gutsy wallpaper
[11:34] <nothlit> i just put all the european countries that i know people are from, don't know the time zones, sorry
[11:36] <nothlit> time zone codes*
[11:38] <artnay> `23meg: yes, I did read your post. many people have already given up on that thread and probably the targeted audience is browsing art & design forum. just a guess :-)
[11:39] <artnay> when was the last artwork meeting? can anybody recall?
[11:39] <nothlit> LOL, i just read the comment where somebody wants everything to be done on the forums
[11:40] <artnay> nothlit: care to give the address?
[11:40] <kwwii> link?
[11:41] <nothlit> `23meg: not about the Gutsy wallpaper and its artwork selection process*
[11:41] <nothlit> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3428513&postcount=304
[11:43] <nothlit> artnay: i'm don't there has been one, perhaps during edgy
[11:44] <nothlit> i don't know if there*
[11:44] <artnay> well there's a point after all. there needs to be a clear distinction (rules) between wiki, launchpad, mailing list and forums
[11:46] <artnay> as always, I'd concentrate on wiki and launchpad when it comes down to workflows & progress and mailing list/forums for normal user discussion
[11:47] <artnay> nothlit: there was, we (a few active people like AndyFitz, klepas, bvc) arranged a meeting but people didn't follow the given agenda
[11:48] <artnay> people went offtopic and started to show up their own mock-ups etc. plain terrible
[11:49] <artnay> power of @ should be present in case of everything is about to fall apart :-)
[11:49] <lassegul> nothlit: did you think any more about solving the problem with spreading content and work over too many platforms last night? About the gallery I mean
[11:49] <lassegul> artnay: i agree
[11:49] <nothlit> lassegul: yeah i pmed you
[11:49] <lassegul> nothlit: thats right :)
[11:50] <nothlit> i'm still trying to see about the server
[11:51] <nothlit> lassegul: if you want to try to get the art.gnome.org system instead, i can email them, i left a quick message on the gnomeart channel, but no response
[11:52] <lassegul> nothlit: but you dont say anything about the problem with seperating the work in too many platforms. When we both have ml, forums, wiki, irc AND GALLERY, this might end up create more confusion than it was supposed to do.
[11:52] <artnay> nothlit: please, no, don't.
[11:52] <lassegul> nothlit: no, i like the suggestions for systems
[11:52] <nothlit> well, of course ideas should be written on the wiki
[11:52] <artnay> it requires a lot of input. once there was AUC (art.ubuntu.com) but it simply didn't work well enough
[11:52] <nothlit> but the way i see it, all visual work, mockups and themes included would do well to be put on a gallery
[11:53] <artnay> the system requires lots of manual work, it didn't support imagemagick etc.
[11:53] <nothlit> its cleaner, more accessible, and people can comment just the same
[11:53] <artnay> lassegul: you mean forum gallery?
[11:53] <artnay> that's just terrible /me thinks
[11:54] <lassegul> artnay: no we were talking about getting something with the same functionality as art.gnome.org
[11:54] <nothlit> artnay: do you know who's in charge of the a.u.c?
[11:54] <nothlit> artnay: and its its a homebrew system
[11:54] <nothlit> if its*
[11:54] <artnay> nothlit: it was hosted by canonical and as far as I recall jeff was in charge of that
[11:54] <lassegul> artnay: instead of using the wiki to submit contributions and comments.
[11:55] <artnay> lassegul: yes, but you can't speak of functionality in case of AUC
[11:55] <lassegul> artnay: I see
[11:55] <nothlit> artnay: jeff?
[11:55] <artnay> nothlit: klepas might be able to enlighten you more than I can
[11:55] <nothlit> artnay: oh ok
[11:56] <artnay> nothlit: jdub
[11:56] <artnay> I might be very wrong about that since it's been a long time already
[11:59] <lassegul> kwwii: you still dont think the gallery thing is such a good idea, is that right?
[12:02] <kwwii> lassegul: I am not sure if spreading things out even further is a good idea
[12:02] <artnay> it all comes down to functionality and requirements. which system to use is not the question, first we have to gather a QA list for artwork process
[12:03] <kwwii> we already have a problem that people do not look at all the places for information
[12:03] <kwwii> adding another place would only confuse things more
[12:03] <artnay> because it's not clearly told where to look for what information
[12:03] <artnay> that should be told at /ArtWork
[12:03] <artnay> it once was *g*
[12:04] <artnay> then those pages got completely overhauled
[12:05] <kwwii> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/GetInvolved
[12:05] <kwwii> guess we need to improve that
[12:06] <artnay> yes, it contains some topics but still after reading the whole page it leaves the reader confused
[12:07] <nothlit> kwwii: if we made a gallery system the one place that "outsiders" would look for progress it might work better though
[12:07] <nothlit> and i still assert that the wiki is a bad place to put such a thing
[12:07] <artnay> for example we could raise wiki and launchpad to be on top and then lower both mailing and irc not to forget forums
[12:08] <nothlit> is launchpad used at all for the artwork process rather than package submission/bug tracking etc?
[12:08] <kwwii> suggest adding that as a topic for the meeting on the mailing list then
[12:08] <artnay> nothlit: yes, who would keep the gallery up-to-date? that's just duplication of work for what?
[12:08] <nothlit> artnay: no duplication of work
[12:08] <nothlit> artnay: artists could submit their visual work to the gallery system directly
[12:08] <lassegul> artnay: if this is what we want to do, we move all that work to gallery. no doublework
[12:09] <nothlit> and keep the ideas and guidelines on the wiki, where written work is best placed
[12:09] <artnay> well this should be discussed very througly before the 2nd of oct
[12:10] <lassegul> yep. you coming to uds nothlit?
[12:11] <nothlit> lassegul: i sent kwwii an email, indicating my interest. if i know there is a spot available i'll for permission to go and see from there
[12:11] <nothlit> i'll ask for*
[12:11] <lassegul> nothlit: great
[02:42] <terlmann> hey troy
[02:43] <terlmann> troy_s : yours were the best , IMHO , of the category we were creating for. Keep up the good work and make more details in future ;-P
[02:52] <terlmann> kwwii... I know this sounds silly.... but what about just using this ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/OranSun is a very good theme... and I think parts of it should be considered for gutsy and even hardy... I recall dapper also having a bright , shiny theme that seemed to sparkle.
[02:56] <terlmann> kwwii , is nothlit the defacto documenter of the art process ? because I have made a page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HardyIdeas that totally outdoes https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/ConceptArt in terms of clarity and definition
[02:56] <kwwii> terlmann: actually, i like that wallpaper a lot - but does that look like the pics at the top of the wiki page?
[02:56] <terlmann> kwwii , I did not mean the wallpaper :-)
[02:56] <terlmann> to be more specific , the gtk , icons....
[02:56] <terlmann> login and splach
[02:57] <terlmann> would make a great presentation for the LTS
[02:57] <terlmann> just like dapper
[02:57] <terlmann> they would then look similar
[02:57] <kwwii> terlmann: we can look into something like that for the future but I think that we are going in a much darker direction in the future
[02:57] <kwwii> more like black and orange
[02:57] <terlmann> darker ? I was hoping lighter.
[02:58] <terlmann> this stinks. we should call ourself the UPS os
[02:58] <kwwii> to answer your other question: nobody is the official documenter of the art process as we are still working out exactly what the process is
[02:58] <terlmann> as a matter of fact we should approach UPS to use our os :-)
[02:58] <kwwii> terlmann: you should attend the meeting where we will discuss the topics I posted to the wiki and the mailing list
[02:58] <terlmann> kwwii : please at some point examine the pages mentioned.
[02:58] <terlmann> the meeting will be here I presume ?
[02:59] <kwwii> nope, it will be in ubuntu-meeting
[02:59] <kwwii> read the mail or check the wiki
[02:59] <kwwii> in fact, let me change the topic
[03:00] <lassegul> terlmann: theres no problem with merging the best from both wiki pages. Yours has some more stuff on it, nothlits one is cleaner. we'll fix em both after the meeting.
[03:01] <terlmann> well whatever happens I want to be in charge of it. I consider myself the resident grammar nazi :-)
[03:01] <terlmann> ok so at the beginning of next month
[03:02] <kwwii> next tuesday
[03:02] <lassegul> werent you the gimp wizard?
[03:02] <terlmann> I am that too
[03:02] <terlmann> gimp is special to me
[03:02] <terlmann> wanna see some of my work ?
[03:02] <kwwii> I would like to seperate the rules from the submissions
[03:02] <terlmann> kwwii : it shall be done
[03:02] <kwwii> and edit the main page to point to most important stuff
[03:02] <kwwii> and edit the GettingInvolved so that it is actually usefull
[03:03] <lassegul> kwwii: the main page must link to the other pages and fuction as a starting point.
[03:03] <lassegul> *function
[03:03] <terlmann> It shall be also done. Anything you mark as particularily important among the submissions will be given it's own page if a fullsize version is uploadfed
[03:03] <kwwii> lassegul: exactly
[03:04] <kwwii> another very important thing is that we mark any pages with rules as "works in progress" to prevent someone reading something that is only halfway done taking it as the final rules
[03:05] <terlmann> hey lasse
[03:05] <terlmann> lassegul
[03:05] <terlmann> I wanna show you my gimping
[03:07] <terlmann> kwwii : some rules are just common sense. And I recommend we phase out png entirely. why not .jpg and .svg ?
[03:07] <kwwii> terlmann: as wallpaper you mean
[03:07] <kwwii> 
[03:07] <kwwii> erm
[03:07] <kwwii> ?
[03:07] <terlmann> just because .jpg is lossy doesnt mean it is a bad format
[03:07] <nothlit> because PNG is more open, and lossless
[03:07] <terlmann> and we keep loading massive .png files to our pages
[03:08] <kwwii> png often leads to much larger files I think that we will need to use jpgs in the future for most of the wallpapers
[03:08] <terlmann> true waste of bandwidth. you could specify final submissions be made in .png
[03:08] <terlmann> And I heard something about that dammed patent on .gif files running out ?
[03:08] <terlmann> isn't that another format we have never used ?
[03:09] <terlmann> it could come into play soon.
[03:09] <kwwii> png is a thousand times better than gif
[03:09] <terlmann> for animation ?
[03:09] <kwwii> well, thousands of colors better
[03:09] <kwwii> mng works great
[03:09] <nothlit> gif is fine for certain web work, otherwise i don't see the point
[03:09] <terlmann> we could do a simple animated picture for the GDM
[03:10] <terlmann> gotta go
[03:10] <terlmann> /n terl_away
[03:11] <lassegul> terl_away\: sorry, I was answering som mails, didnt see the dcc.
[03:11] <nothlit> kwwii: is the iso becoming a tighter fit? or is it the resolutions that are increasing
[03:11] <kwwii> nothlit: can you send me an email with your name, address, age, and what you've worked on in ubuntu
[03:12] <kwwii> nothlit: as things stand now we are exactly at the limit
[03:12] <nothlit> kwwii: sure, can i send fluxbuntu stuff as well?
[03:12] <kwwii> but because of a stupid file name that we cannot change we have to use png this time around
[03:12] <kwwii> nothlit: definitely
[03:12] <lassegul> kwwii: thats the coolest reason ever.
[03:13] <kwwii> lassegul: that will be the first thing that we change for hardy, trust me
[03:13] <nothlit> kwwii: do i send attachments or links in terms of artwork
[03:14] <nothlit> kwwii: or just descriptions of everything
[03:17] <lassegul> i gotta do some work. and then go pick up my new laptop. see you guys later tonight.
[03:18] <nothlit> lassegul: congrats on a new laptop :)
[03:18] <nothlit> lassegul: for your birthday?
[03:18] <lassegul> no, for UDS :)
[03:19] <lassegul> bought a 12 inch Amilo Pro 3250
[03:19] <nothlit> nice
[03:19] <kwwii> nothlit: descriptions would be enough
[03:19] <nothlit> on the UDS part, i have to google the laptop model
[03:19] <kwwii> lassegul: cool
[03:20] <lassegul> yeah i think maybe i wrote the wrong model number
[03:20] <lassegul> why dont the call the laptop "Frank"
[03:20] <lassegul> instead of "xucy23132wd"
[03:21] <lassegul> its Fujitsu Siemens Amilo Pro V3205 DualC
[03:21] <lassegul> T5200, 1GB, 120GB
[03:22] <_MMA_> kwwii: The Fluxbuntu stuff is impressive. :)
[03:22] <lassegul> _MMA_: i agree.
[03:22] <lassegul> im off
[03:22] <_MMA_> nothlit: Joe gave me a peak. ;)
[03:23] <kwwii> I love fluxbox - used it for a long time
[03:24] <nothlit> _MMA_: its on troy's blog as well
[03:24] <_MMA_> nothlit: Oh really? I didnt know. :)
[03:25] <nothlit> lemme show you some of the stuff that was <not> selected as default lol, warning, not mine https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/otherfluxart
[03:25] <nothlit> thats a peek at how much (fantastic work) has gone into the flux release :)
[03:45] <terl_away\> /name terlmann
[03:49] <terlmann> hey kwwii , you seem to want nothlit's resume, but I will beat up his artwork with my Ultimate series I just thought up...
[03:58] <nothlit> kwwii: Email Sent
[04:01] <nothlit> joejaxx: finally
[04:01] <joejaxx> lol
[04:01] <joejaxx> yeah
[04:07] <terlmann> any of you ever get to level 11 in gnometris ?
[04:07] <terlmann> :-D
[04:08] <terlmann> yea , my gnometris mastery should get me a job.. or not...
[04:10] <joejaxx> gnometris?
[04:25] <joejaxx> lol ?
[04:31] <terlmann> brb
[07:15] <terlmann> am back
[07:44] <luisbg> hello all
[07:45] <terlmann> hello
[07:45] <terlmann> so nothlit : you code on the fluxbuntu release ?
[07:45] <joejaxx> luisbg: hi
[07:46] <luisbg> hey joejaxx
[07:46] <luisbg> hey terlmann
[07:46] <joejaxx> :)
[09:21] <kwwii> oh man, he is finally asleep - nobody chat too loud or he will wake up
[09:40] <joejaxx> kwwii: lol
[09:41] <kwwii> my wife left on a business trip today - I have been running around like a chicken with it's head cut off
[09:44] <joejaxx> :\
[09:44] <joejaxx> has your hectic day died down yet?
[09:51] <_MMA_> kwwii: Mine just got up from a nap. :)
[09:57] <kwwii> whew...time for a bloody mary
[09:57] <kwwii> it is soo wierd that the apartment is soo quite and dark
[09:59] <kwwii> joejaxx: yeah, finally
[10:10] <joejaxx> kwwii: oh ok :)
[10:35] <nothlit`alpha> Misosaki: heyas
[10:37] <Misosaki> Hey nothlit
[10:37] <nothlit`alpha> Misosaki: some people were wondering if you did the Orange set
[10:38] <Misosaki> nothlit: Guilty as charged. There were lots of better works though, so it was a learning experience for what it was worth.
[10:41] <nothlit`alpha> Misosaki: the last two are quite nice :) no wonder you were a staunch defender of inkscape :)
[10:43] <Misosaki> nothlit: Thanks, heheh. Not really satisfied with the set in retrospect, but that's normal, lol.
[10:44] <Misosaki> Inkscape can do quite a bit, it just has its own quirks that one should get used to, like other apps.
[10:45] <Misosaki> nothlit: Anything new on your end?
[10:46] <nothlit> artwork wise no
[10:46] <nothlit> you can see i've suggested a topic be added to the agenda
[10:47] <nothlit> and i've been talking to matthew nuzum about art.ubuntu.com and drupal etc
[10:47] <nothlit> hes told me that he will be attending the meeting
[10:47] <Misosaki> nods ... a good one. Not sure why we haven't had something in place like this before.
[10:47] <nothlit> but otherwise, i have his concerns down and how drupal will work
[10:48] <nothlit> Misosaki: well there was, i think it was just more of a showcase
[10:49] <kwwii> art.ubuntu.com was removed because it was really out of date
[10:50] <nothlit`alpha> he said they shut it down after the intrusions into the community run servers
[10:50] <Misosaki> nothlit: Ah ... it's just that things like this will (hopefully) lead to things being better organised ... makes things easier in the long run
[10:51] <nothlit`alpha> and that it got 30000 visits per week with no new content for months
[10:53] <Misosaki> nods
[10:56] <Misosaki> So basically people can register and comment there while the artists post their work there? Will comments on the artwork in general stick to the wiki or...?
[10:58] <nothlit`alpha> no, no comments on the wiki for bypassers
[10:58] <nothlit`alpha> the wiki will be used for written work, and published pages like guidelines and style
[10:59] <nothlit`alpha> but that way people don't have to care about the wiki/irc/mailing list
[10:59] <nothlit`alpha> in the end all the bypassers want to see is pretty pictures, while also being demonstrated the progress of hardy
[11:00] <nothlit`alpha> art.ubuntu.com would seem like and obvious place then, considering its previous traffic
[11:00] <nothlit`alpha> an*
[11:01] <Misosaki> nods
[11:01] <Misosaki> Hi andreasn
[11:01] <andreasn> Misosaki: hi!
[11:03] <Misosaki> So all bypasser comments on art.ubuntu.com, or none?
[11:05] <nothlit`alpha> could you rephrase that?
[11:08] <Misosaki> Well, since there won't be comments on the wiki, just confirming if comments will be directed to art.ubuntu.com, seeing there might be mixed feelings about having (lots of) feedback
[11:11] <nothlit`alpha> yeah
[11:11] <nothlit`alpha> well thats why its on the agenda
[11:11] <lassegul> Hi people
[11:11] <nothlit`alpha> so if people feel uncomfortable about that, we can use the wiki, and the ambassador system
[11:11] <nothlit`alpha> heyas lassegul
[11:12] <lassegul> Misosaki: but by bypasser comments you dont mean comments from people who arent registered?
[11:12] <Misosaki> Hi lassegul
[11:13] <lassegul> hi to you too.
[11:13] <Misosaki> Hi Skiessi
[11:13] <Skiessi> hi
[11:14] <Misosaki> lassegul: Well ... registered with art.ubuntu.com?
[11:14] <Misosaki> Will the system allow anonymous posting too?
[11:15] <lassegul> Misosaki: the optimal solution would be that you could log on with your forum or launchpad ID, but that might be hard work.
[11:15] <lassegul> hard work = bad
[11:15] <Misosaki> :)
[11:15] <lassegul> Misosaki: but I wouldnt think anonymous postings will do us much good.
[11:15] <nothlit`alpha> lassegul: by bypasser i mean those not actively involved in the proccess
[11:16] <lassegul> nothlit`alpha: ok.
[11:16] <Misosaki> nothlit and lassegul: Okay
[11:16] <Misosaki> So people would register if they want to leave a comment
[11:17] <lassegul> Misosaki: I think that is a must.
[11:18] <Misosaki> lassegul: nods
[11:19] <lassegul> i just saw Pablo Fransisco live. He's so funny.
[11:19] <nothlit`alpha> one thing that matthew was concerned about was that it would need to be actively monitored
[11:19] <nothlit`alpha> so porn isn't uploaded to a community site, etc
[11:20] <lassegul> ok. then we need to put some manpower there.
[11:20] <lassegul> we should map where we need to put manpower, so we can make realistic plans
[11:21] <Misosaki> Was anyone monitoring the wiki before?
[11:22] <Misosaki> Or was it small enough that it didn't need it?
[11:22] <lassegul> how many do we expect being on this continiously for the coming six months?
[11:23] <Misosaki> That would depend on how much time people are willing to volunteer on average/week
[11:23] <lassegul> I wouldnt say we should depend on too many.
[11:23] <nothlit`alpha> i think
[11:23] <nothlit`alpha> all we would need is automatic emails to a few responsible people
[11:24] <lassegul> yeah for this task, but there might be more work that needs to be done.
[11:24] <nothlit`alpha> unless you want to do it the other way, an approve things that are uploaded
[11:24] <lassegul> on a regular basis.
[11:24] <lassegul> nothlit`alpha: taht also takes some work
[11:25] <nothlit`alpha> 21:39:11 <newz2000> The reason I suggested drupal is because the sysadmins host many of the loco teams now and the list of software packages they're willing to support is short.
[11:25] <nothlit`alpha> 21:39:17 <newz2000> drupal being one of the preferred
[11:25] <nothlit`alpha> 21:41:08 <nothlit> Ahh
[11:25] <nothlit`alpha> 21:41:52 <nothlit> I assumed that the teams themselves would still do some managing, so I suggested something that I could easily manage myself.
[11:25] <nothlit`alpha> 21:42:17 <nothlit> if Drupal would work better with the sysadmins, and it works with what the team is trying to accomplish that would be great too
[11:25] <nothlit`alpha> 21:42:22 <newz2000> well, you would still manage the site, however the server side is managed by them
[11:26] <nothlit`alpha> so afaik, it looks like the sysadmins would manage security etc
[11:26] <nothlit`alpha> and all we would do is use the system itself
[11:26] <lassegul> nothlit`alpha: thats a relief
[11:40] <kwwii> night all
[11:41] <lassegul> gnight
[11:41] <nothlit`alpha> cyas
[11:46] <lassegul> nothlit`alpha: i wanna do something soon. get started some way.
[11:47] <lassegul> nothlit`alpha: any ideas?
[11:53] <nothlit`alpha> lassegul: you can start writing ideas concerning the two meeting agendas
[11:56] <lassegul> nothlit`alpha: yeah.
[12:05] <terlmann> It's a pity I cannot take some pictures of the mornings here
[12:05] <terlmann> all orange and red
[12:05] <terlmann> and the morning star around here is beautiful
[12:06] <Misosaki> Heh, hello terlmann
[12:07] <terlmann> hello
[12:08] <Misosaki> And where can one see this lovely sight of which you speak?
[12:09] <terlmann> In eastern kansas
[12:09] <Misosaki> Ah. And with nice temps to go with it too, probably
[12:10] <terlmann> Now actually these last few days , just this week , it is getting frosty around the edges..
[12:10] <terlmann> In the morning
[12:10] <terlmann> before the sun comes up
[12:10] <terlmann> and my allergies get me sneezing about that time , so I get up
[12:12] <terlmann> I tried it on a camera belonging to a family member but the resolution is rustic
[12:15] <Misosaki> Rustic can be expressive
[12:16] <Misosaki> Maybe also wallpaper material ;)
[12:16] <terlmann> rustic as in very grainy and low-res
[12:16] <terlmann> very low res
[12:17] <terlmann> lower than web cam
[12:18] <Misosaki> Noise can be good thing, just depends on how it's used
[12:18] <terlmann> I mean really low res as in you can barely make out what is in the picture
[12:18] <terlmann> man
[12:18] <terlmann> don't you get it ?
[12:19] <Misosaki> Well, if you just want the subject matter then sure, it's horrible
[12:20] <terlmann> you are becoming annoying. The possibility of the camera mentioned being capable or worthy of taking anything for the Ubuntu art contests is impossible.
[12:20] <Misosaki> ?
[12:20] <Misosaki> Didn't mention anything about art contests ... just wallpaper
[12:20] <terlmann> wallpaper
[12:20] <terlmann> same thing to me
[12:20] <terlmann> it's a contest with myself to see how high of a standard I can set
[12:20] <Misosaki> Have seen artists use noise as texture, with even a simple distort filter to it
[12:21] <Misosaki> There are also professional photographers who take images with disposable cameras
[12:21] <terlmann> at this point wallpapers of real-life settings need to be a high enough res and quality you cannot tell whether you are looking at a desktop or through a window.
[12:22] <Misosaki> The outcome blown up is grainy, but can add certain effects if that's what they're looking to do
[12:22] <Misosaki> Sometimes part of the creativity is finding new ways to use what is at first glance junk
[12:23] <terlmann> well that is true if the final user can see the creativity :-P
[12:23] <terlmann> but what if he knows nothing of that ?
[12:23] <Misosaki> Well, some can, some can't ... it happens
[12:24] <Misosaki> First, if the artist wants, he or someone can explain that. If the person still doesn't like it, then that's fine too.
[12:24] <Misosaki> Can't please everyone.
[12:25] <Misosaki> As long as you're happy with what you do.
[12:25] <terlmann> sorry , I cannot be happy :-)
[12:25] <Misosaki> lol
[12:25] <terlmann> not at the moment
[12:25] <Misosaki> Heh. Then get a better camera.
[12:25] <Misosaki> :)
[12:28] <terlmann> Can't
[12:28] <nothlit`alpha> if you don't have the budget, nothing wrong with using a film camera and getting scans
[12:28] <terlmann> no money
[12:28] <terlmann> can't do that either mano
[12:28] <terlmann> life in the boonies is sucky
[12:28] <terlmann> I get some funding from grandparents every 6 months though