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| ubotu | New bug: #145055 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Group descriptions missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145055 | 04:55 |
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| kyleN | Hi, is there anyone here who is knowledgeable about the underlying software used on Ubuntu for Help: Yelp, scrollkeeper, etc? | 03:18 |
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| kyleN | I am thinking about Help requirements for Ubuntu Mobile and would like to chat a bit with anyone who knows something about how Ubuntu Gutsy help software works | 03:20 |
| jjesse | kyleN: i think mdke knows the most, but he is on vacation this week | 03:21 |
| kyleN | jjesse, thanks. Is that Matthew East? | 03:21 |
| jjesse | kyleN: yeah that is | 03:22 |
| kyleN | Is there anyone else you know of that I could ping? | 03:22 |
| jjesse | kyleN: nixternal might also be able to help out? | 03:22 |
| kyleN | nixternal, are you here? | 03:22 |
| kyleN | Thanks again jjesse. Do you happen to know what happens under the covers? | 03:23 |
| jjesse | kyleN: if i recall correctly yelp converts the xml on the fly to html? but not qwuite sure | 03:24 |
| kyleN | Yes, that is so. I do know that Yelp takes docbook xml and converts is with xslt into html for display | 03:24 |
| kyleN | One question I have in that area is how does Yelp know which xslt stylesheet to use for conversion? | 03:25 |
| jjesse | unfortnately i know very little about yelp, i do a lot w/ kubuntu docs which uses KHelpCenter | 03:25 |
| kyleN | Does KHelpCenter support context sensitive help? | 03:25 |
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| jjesse | nixterna1_: PING | 03:26 |
| kyleN | hello nixternal, may I ask you a couple questions? | 03:26 |
| kyleN | jjesse, do you know whether KHelpCenter provides context sensitive help? | 03:26 |
| jjesse | i think it does | 03:26 |
| kyleN | jjesse, could you please (I hate to ask) check? Yelp does not, and that's a real problem. I'll owe you one! | 03:28 |
| jjesse | kyleN: yeah i can check, migth be a bit as i'm at work right now :) | 03:28 |
| kyleN | can you email me: kyle@pepper.com? I would really appreciate it | 03:28 |
| jjesse | sure will do | 03:28 |
| kyleN | nixternal does not seem to be solidly here ;) | 03:29 |
| jjesse | yeah, but i'll follow up w/ him and verify | 03:29 |
| jjesse | made a note to email you | 03:29 |
| kyleN | thx a lot | 03:29 |
| jjesse | np | 03:29 |
| kyleN | there are quite a few pieces to the help system on ubuntu, including: | 03:30 |
| kyleN | scrollkeeper to maintain a list of currently installed docs | 03:30 |
| kyleN | yelp to display the docs | 03:30 |
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| kyleN | translation, i18n | 03:31 |
| kyleN | etc. | 03:31 |
| kyleN | nixternal, are you here? | 03:31 |
| jjesse | nixternal: you around or still having internet connection issues? | 03:35 |
| kyleN | jjesse, are kbuntu docs written in docbook? | 03:35 |
| jjesse | kyleN: yes, we use the same toolchain as ubuntu-docs | 03:35 |
| jjesse | so we write in docbook and the build into html | 03:35 |
| jjesse | and apply the stylesheet there | 03:35 |
| kyleN | do you create the html at build time or is it done on the fly at runtime? | 03:36 |
| jjesse | at build time | 03:36 |
| kyleN | that makes sense, much faster for the user | 03:36 |
| jjesse | khelpcenter can't or doesn't build on the fly | 03:36 |
| kyleN | I see | 03:36 |
| kyleN | I think ubuntu transforms docbook to html on the fly. Does anyone know why this was the approach taken with Ubuntu? | 03:37 |
| jjesse | as far as i know that is how yelp works? | 03:37 |
| kyleN | I think Yelp could display html without doing the transform... I'll check on that | 03:38 |
| jjesse | kyleN: i feel bad that i can't you better | 03:38 |
| kyleN | That's OK - I appreciate the help you are giving. With respect to Ubuntu mobile, the lack of context sensitive help from Yelp makes it a bad choice because the target audience is the "soccer mom/dad" | 03:39 |
| kyleN | who doesn't want to read a book, just get help when they need it | 03:39 |
| jjesse | totally agreed | 03:39 |
| kyleN | So if KHelpCenter could do that, it would be the better choice, I think | 03:40 |
| jjesse | i wonder if there would then be too many dependices by adding khelpcenter? | 03:41 |
| kyleN | You mean too many other packages it requires? | 03:42 |
| jjesse | yeah thats what i meant | 03:42 |
| kyleN | is khelpcenter somehow linked in many ways to the kde desktop, so it couldn't be used in a different context? | 03:42 |
| kyleN | Ubuntu mobile is not a KDE desktop, so maybe it's not even a possible choice... | 03:43 |
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| kyleN | jjesse, when you say you use the same toolchain, could you expand a bit on what you mean by that? | 03:44 |
| jjesse | well we create the docs w/ docbook, use the same subversion repository, use the same validation tools and use the same tools to create the .pot files | 03:45 |
| kyleN | I see | 03:45 |
| kyleN | perhaps you can help me understand the .pot files. | 03:45 |
| jjesse | i can try | 03:45 |
| kyleN | I imagine when the doc is finished, you run a tool and it outputs the .pot file | 03:45 |
| jjesse | the .pot files are what are uploaded to rossetta to get translated | 03:45 |
| kyleN | this is somehoe loaded to rosetta | 03:46 |
| kyleN | do you know how the .pot file is created? | 03:46 |
| kyleN | and is the .pot file what is sometimes called the "template"? | 03:47 |
| jjesse | as far as i know that is correct the .pot file is the template | 03:47 |
| kyleN | in a running system, one has .po files, I guess | 03:47 |
| kyleN | these are the translations | 03:47 |
| jjesse | i assume that is correct | 03:48 |
| kyleN | I think I came across a script somewhere once that creates the .pot file. Maybe it was called "translate.sh". I am goinig to search for that now | 03:49 |
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| kyleN | yes, it is in ubuntu_docs/trunk/ubuntu | 03:52 |
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| ubotu | New bug: #145375 in ubuntu-docs (main) "The requested page was not found in the document /usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-doc-make/C/gnome-doc-make.xml." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145375 | 11:25 |
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