=== WorkingMoses [i=ssos@gateway/tor/x-c397141acfd660ec] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@ubuntu/member/dsas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === merriam_ [n=merriam@85-211-21-215.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@adsl-76-212-64-183.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:55] New bug: #145055 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Group descriptions missing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145055 === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-130-17.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === glatzor [n=renate@p57AEF424.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WorkingMoses [i=ssos@gateway/tor/x-0c92dfba5e3421c5] has joined #ubuntu-doc === j1mc|afk is now known as j1mc === dorto [n=dorto@220.226.151.16] has joined #ubuntu-doc === RobV [n=robert@89.100.132.29] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TLE [n=kenneth@77.75.167.190] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dsas [n=dean@ubuntu/member/dsas] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WorkingMoses [i=ssos@gateway/tor/x-3dfc670091e010d2] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === TeTeT [n=spindler@modemcable178.77-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WorkingMoses [i=ssos@gateway/tor/x-49188871bfee2f6e] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === seisen [n=seisen@cpe-65-189-220-158.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kyleN [n=kyle@fw.pepper.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:18] Hi, is there anyone here who is knowledgeable about the underlying software used on Ubuntu for Help: Yelp, scrollkeeper, etc? === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:20] I am thinking about Help requirements for Ubuntu Mobile and would like to chat a bit with anyone who knows something about how Ubuntu Gutsy help software works [03:21] kyleN: i think mdke knows the most, but he is on vacation this week [03:21] jjesse, thanks. Is that Matthew East? [03:22] kyleN: yeah that is [03:22] Is there anyone else you know of that I could ping? [03:22] kyleN: nixternal might also be able to help out? [03:22] nixternal, are you here? [03:23] Thanks again jjesse. Do you happen to know what happens under the covers? [03:24] kyleN: if i recall correctly yelp converts the xml on the fly to html? but not qwuite sure [03:24] Yes, that is so. I do know that Yelp takes docbook xml and converts is with xslt into html for display [03:25] One question I have in that area is how does Yelp know which xslt stylesheet to use for conversion? [03:25] unfortnately i know very little about yelp, i do a lot w/ kubuntu docs which uses KHelpCenter [03:25] Does KHelpCenter support context sensitive help? === nixterna1_ [n=nixterna@c-67-167-13-198.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:26] nixterna1_: PING [03:26] hello nixternal, may I ask you a couple questions? [03:26] jjesse, do you know whether KHelpCenter provides context sensitive help? [03:26] i think it does [03:28] jjesse, could you please (I hate to ask) check? Yelp does not, and that's a real problem. I'll owe you one! [03:28] kyleN: yeah i can check, migth be a bit as i'm at work right now :) [03:28] can you email me: kyle@pepper.com? I would really appreciate it [03:28] sure will do [03:29] nixternal does not seem to be solidly here ;) [03:29] yeah, but i'll follow up w/ him and verify [03:29] made a note to email you [03:29] thx a lot [03:29] np [03:30] there are quite a few pieces to the help system on ubuntu, including: [03:30] scrollkeeper to maintain a list of currently installed docs [03:30] yelp to display the docs === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:31] translation, i18n [03:31] etc. [03:31] nixternal, are you here? [03:35] nixternal: you around or still having internet connection issues? [03:35] jjesse, are kbuntu docs written in docbook? [03:35] kyleN: yes, we use the same toolchain as ubuntu-docs [03:35] so we write in docbook and the build into html [03:35] and apply the stylesheet there [03:36] do you create the html at build time or is it done on the fly at runtime? [03:36] at build time [03:36] that makes sense, much faster for the user [03:36] khelpcenter can't or doesn't build on the fly [03:36] I see [03:37] I think ubuntu transforms docbook to html on the fly. Does anyone know why this was the approach taken with Ubuntu? [03:37] as far as i know that is how yelp works? [03:38] I think Yelp could display html without doing the transform... I'll check on that [03:38] kyleN: i feel bad that i can't you better [03:39] That's OK - I appreciate the help you are giving. With respect to Ubuntu mobile, the lack of context sensitive help from Yelp makes it a bad choice because the target audience is the "soccer mom/dad" [03:39] who doesn't want to read a book, just get help when they need it [03:39] totally agreed [03:40] So if KHelpCenter could do that, it would be the better choice, I think [03:41] i wonder if there would then be too many dependices by adding khelpcenter? [03:42] You mean too many other packages it requires? [03:42] yeah thats what i meant [03:42] is khelpcenter somehow linked in many ways to the kde desktop, so it couldn't be used in a different context? [03:43] Ubuntu mobile is not a KDE desktop, so maybe it's not even a possible choice... === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:44] jjesse, when you say you use the same toolchain, could you expand a bit on what you mean by that? [03:45] well we create the docs w/ docbook, use the same subversion repository, use the same validation tools and use the same tools to create the .pot files [03:45] I see [03:45] perhaps you can help me understand the .pot files. [03:45] i can try [03:45] I imagine when the doc is finished, you run a tool and it outputs the .pot file [03:45] the .pot files are what are uploaded to rossetta to get translated [03:46] this is somehoe loaded to rosetta [03:46] do you know how the .pot file is created? [03:47] and is the .pot file what is sometimes called the "template"? [03:47] as far as i know that is correct the .pot file is the template [03:47] in a running system, one has .po files, I guess [03:47] these are the translations [03:48] i assume that is correct [03:49] I think I came across a script somewhere once that creates the .pot file. Maybe it was called "translate.sh". I am goinig to search for that now === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:52] yes, it is in ubuntu_docs/trunk/ubuntu === nixternal_ [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse_ [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sacater [n=sacater@ubuntu/member/colchester-lug.sacater] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bluekuja [n=andrea@ubuntu/member/bluekuja] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sacater [n=sacater@ubuntu/member/colchester-lug.sacater] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bluekuja [n=andrea@ubuntu/member/bluekuja] has joined #ubuntu-doc === glatzor [n=renate@p54976D44.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse_ [n=jjesse@64.186.55.234] has joined #ubuntu-doc === kylewilliams [n=kinus@196.209.242.144] has joined #ubuntu-doc === dappermuis [n=kinus@196.209.242.144] has joined #ubuntu-doc === seisen [n=seisen@cpe-65-189-220-158.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-doc === seisen [n=seisen@cpe-65-189-220-158.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jgoguen [n=jgoguen@131.202.145.167] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@pool-71-115-208-222.spknwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === seisen [n=seisen@cpe-65-189-220-158.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [11:25] New bug: #145375 in ubuntu-docs (main) "The requested page was not found in the document /usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-doc-make/C/gnome-doc-make.xml." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145375 === Gwaihir [n=Gwaihir@ubuntu/member/gwaihir] has joined #ubuntu-doc