[04:55] <ubotu> New bug: #145055 in ubuntu-docs (main) "Group descriptions missing" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145055
[03:18] <kyleN> Hi, is there anyone here who is knowledgeable about the underlying software used on Ubuntu for Help: Yelp, scrollkeeper, etc?
[03:20] <kyleN> I am thinking about Help requirements for Ubuntu Mobile and would like to chat a bit with anyone who knows something about how Ubuntu Gutsy help software works
[03:21] <jjesse> kyleN: i think mdke knows the most, but he is on vacation this week
[03:21] <kyleN> jjesse, thanks. Is that Matthew East?
[03:22] <jjesse> kyleN: yeah that is
[03:22] <kyleN> Is there anyone else you know of that I could ping?
[03:22] <jjesse> kyleN: nixternal might also be able to help out?
[03:22] <kyleN> nixternal, are you here?
[03:23] <kyleN> Thanks again jjesse. Do you happen to know what happens under the covers?
[03:24] <jjesse> kyleN: if i recall correctly yelp converts the xml on the fly to html?  but not qwuite sure
[03:24] <kyleN> Yes, that is so. I do know that Yelp takes docbook xml and converts is with xslt into html for display
[03:25] <kyleN> One question I have in that area is how does Yelp know which xslt stylesheet to use for conversion?
[03:25] <jjesse> unfortnately i know very little about yelp, i do a lot w/ kubuntu docs which uses KHelpCenter
[03:25] <kyleN> Does KHelpCenter support context sensitive help?
[03:26] <jjesse> nixterna1_: PING
[03:26] <kyleN> hello nixternal, may I ask you a couple questions?
[03:26] <kyleN> jjesse, do you know whether KHelpCenter provides context sensitive help?
[03:26] <jjesse> i think it does
[03:28] <kyleN> jjesse, could you please (I hate to ask) check? Yelp does not, and that's a real problem. I'll owe you one!
[03:28] <jjesse> kyleN: yeah i can check, migth be a bit as i'm at work right now :)
[03:28] <kyleN> can you email me: kyle@pepper.com? I would really appreciate it
[03:28] <jjesse> sure will do
[03:29] <kyleN> nixternal does not seem to be solidly here ;)
[03:29] <jjesse> yeah, but i'll follow up w/ him and verify
[03:29] <jjesse> made a note to email you
[03:29] <kyleN> thx a lot
[03:29] <jjesse> np
[03:30] <kyleN> there are quite a few pieces to the help system on ubuntu, including:
[03:30] <kyleN> scrollkeeper to maintain a list of currently installed docs
[03:30] <kyleN> yelp to display the docs
[03:31] <kyleN> translation, i18n
[03:31] <kyleN> etc.
[03:31] <kyleN> nixternal, are you here?
[03:35] <jjesse> nixternal: you around or still having internet connection issues?
[03:35] <kyleN> jjesse, are kbuntu docs written in docbook?
[03:35] <jjesse> kyleN: yes, we use the same toolchain as ubuntu-docs
[03:35] <jjesse> so we write in docbook and the build into html
[03:35] <jjesse> and apply the stylesheet there
[03:36] <kyleN> do you create the html at build time or is it done on the fly at runtime?
[03:36] <jjesse> at build time
[03:36] <kyleN> that makes sense, much faster for the user
[03:36] <jjesse> khelpcenter can't or doesn't build on the fly
[03:36] <kyleN> I see
[03:37] <kyleN> I think ubuntu transforms docbook to html on the fly. Does anyone know why this was the approach taken with Ubuntu?
[03:37] <jjesse> as far as i know that is how yelp works?
[03:38] <kyleN> I think Yelp could display html without doing the transform... I'll check on that
[03:38] <jjesse> kyleN: i feel bad that i can't you better
[03:39] <kyleN> That's OK - I appreciate the help you are giving. With respect to Ubuntu mobile, the lack of context sensitive help from Yelp makes it a bad choice because the target audience is the "soccer mom/dad"
[03:39] <kyleN> who doesn't want to read a book, just get help when they need it
[03:39] <jjesse> totally agreed
[03:40] <kyleN> So if KHelpCenter could do that, it would be the better choice, I think
[03:41] <jjesse> i wonder if there would then be too many dependices by adding khelpcenter?
[03:42] <kyleN> You mean too many other packages it requires?
[03:42] <jjesse> yeah thats what i meant
[03:42] <kyleN> is khelpcenter somehow linked in many ways to the kde desktop, so it couldn't be used in a different context?
[03:43] <kyleN> Ubuntu mobile is not a KDE desktop, so maybe it's not even a possible choice...
[03:44] <kyleN> jjesse, when you say you use the same toolchain, could you expand a bit on what you mean by that?
[03:45] <jjesse> well we create the docs w/ docbook, use the same subversion repository, use the same validation tools and use the same tools to create the .pot files
[03:45] <kyleN> I see
[03:45] <kyleN> perhaps you can help me understand the .pot files.
[03:45] <jjesse> i can try
[03:45] <kyleN> I imagine when the doc is finished, you run a tool and it outputs the .pot file
[03:45] <jjesse> the .pot files are what are uploaded to rossetta to get translated
[03:46] <kyleN> this is somehoe loaded to rosetta
[03:46] <kyleN> do you know how the .pot file is created?
[03:47] <kyleN> and is the .pot file what is sometimes called the "template"?
[03:47] <jjesse> as far as i know that is correct the .pot file is the template
[03:47] <kyleN> in a running system, one has .po files, I guess
[03:47] <kyleN> these are the translations
[03:48] <jjesse> i assume that is correct
[03:49] <kyleN> I think I came across a script somewhere once that creates the .pot file. Maybe it was called "translate.sh". I am goinig to search for that now
[03:52] <kyleN> yes, it is in ubuntu_docs/trunk/ubuntu
[11:25] <ubotu> New bug: #145375 in ubuntu-docs (main) "The requested page was not found in the document /usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-doc-make/C/gnome-doc-make.xml." [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145375