[01:05] <Daviey> Hey...
[01:05] <Daviey> "Poll" - how should the date & time be added?
[01:27] <popey> any lp admins about, we need a poll deleting 
[02:07] <Daviey> kiko: ping
[02:14] <poolie__> can anyone tell me: who is allowed to add download files for a project?
[02:17] <kiko> Daviey, pong
[02:17] <kiko> poolie__, only project owners, I believe.
[02:17] <Daviey> kiko: Can you remove a poll from a team?
[02:17] <kiko> Daviey, you'll need to ask for support, above, because that needs DBA intervention.
[02:17] <poolie> kiko, i think this person (bialix) is a member of the ~bzr
[02:18] <poolie> group
[02:18] <kiko> poolie, and he can't see the link, or..?
[02:18] <Daviey> kiko: raise a Q @ https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad ?
[02:20] <poolie> kiko, he gets https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/145416
[02:20] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145416 in launchpad "Who's allowed to add download files?" [Undecided,New]  
[02:21] <kiko> Daviey, yes, exactly.
[02:21] <kiko> poolie, that sounds like a question, not a bug?
[02:23] <poolie> i can change it to an assertion
[02:23] <poolie> doen
[02:23] <Daviey> kiko: done, thanks
[02:25] <poolie> kiko, the bug is "it's not clear who's allowed to download files"
[02:25] <poolie> but i guess i should also file a question
[02:25] <kiko> Daviey, thanks.
[02:26] <kiko> poolie, ah, one thing.
[02:26] <kiko> poolie, it is actually possible that the registrant of the series or release is the one allowed.
[02:28] <poolie> ok
[02:28] <poolie> that might explain it
[02:28] <poolie> i'm not sure that's the best behaviour though
[02:29] <poolie> i'd like to let port maintainers upload their work directly
[02:29] <poolie> is fix-it-friday still running?
[02:30] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooood afternoon Launchpadders!
[02:30] <ubotu> New bug: #145416 in launchpad "It is not clear who is allowed to add download files" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145416
[02:30] <kiko> poolie, it sounds like an ugly bug in fact
[02:30] <kiko> but I am pulling a branch to find out.
[02:30] <poolie> kiko, it's not super urgent
[02:30] <poolie> just surprising
[02:31] <poolie> i can upload for him
[02:31] <poolie> hello mpt!
[02:31] <kiko> hey mpt 
[02:45] <poolie> i'm trying to add a comment on https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/14071
[02:45] <poolie> and it just stalls - no timeout error
[02:46] <kiko> poolie, can you leave it to timeout?
[02:46] <kiko> I have seen this happen before 
[02:46] <kiko> but it was a backend crash
[02:46] <poolie> sorry, i closed the window
[02:46] <poolie> it was stalled for more than 2 minutes
[02:55] <ubotu> New bug: #145420 in launchpad "Final batches of 1~2 items are annoying" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145420
[03:01] <ubotu> New bug: #145423 in launchpad "fmt:link shouldn't link to the same page" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145423
[03:20] <ubotu> New bug: #145428 in soyuz "Source package page looks like a discussion" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145428
[03:26] <poolie> thanks kiko!
[03:26] <kiko> you're welcome poolie 
[03:54] <pwnguin> should i be concerned if uploading a .dsc is taking forever?
[04:21] <poolie> how do i make a team?
[04:26] <gnomefreak> same way you made your personal account iirc
[04:31] <poolie> gnomefreak, i have it, it's  in the dropdown menu from the top bar
[04:31] <poolie> gnomefreak, i made my account through the login/register window
[04:31] <poolie> which is much more easily reached
[04:31] <poolie> anyhow it's bug 102361
[04:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 102361 in launchpad "It's not obvious how to register a team" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/102361
[04:37] <gnomefreak> i see, we did lose the teams/people page or atleast there is no link for it 
[04:37] <gnomefreak> goes to read bug
[04:38] <gnomefreak> problem is the way to get dropdown from home is to click on home than it just reloads launchpad.net so you cant click on the menu items (atleast here)
[04:42] <poolie> gnomefreak, if i hover the mouse over it for a couple of seconds then the menu pops down and i can click things
[04:42] <poolie> but it's a bit tricky
[04:43] <spiv> It is very hard to find https://help.launchpad.net/UsingMaloneEmail on help.launchpad.net
[04:50] <lifeless> spiv: easy via google
[08:15] <ubotu> New bug: #145472 in launchpad "Acer Aspire 5050 - Sound doesn't work" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145472
[08:22] <pwnguin> hey uh, do ppas actually have source repos?
[08:23] <pwnguin> http://ppa.launchpad.net/jldugger/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/restricted/source/
[08:24] <pwnguin> hah, wrong repo
[09:25] <mpt> I will give a chocolate fish to the person who figures out why so many people ask Ubuntu-related questions at http://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad instead of http://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[09:26] <Hobbsee> mpt: because launchpad is the ubuntu bugtracker.
[09:26] <Hobbsee> mpt: that's what's on all the information
[09:26] <Hobbsee> mpt: ie, so the bugtracker must be called "launchpad" - they dont get projects.
[09:27] <Hobbsee> "oh, i have to ask my question on launchpad.  this says launchpad.  this must be right"
[09:27] <stdin> same reason they report Ubuntu bugs as Launchpad bugs, like bug #145472
[09:27] <mpt> Hobbsee, that's just the thing. We worked hard to eliminate old links to <http://launchpad.net/malone>, and now people *don't* report Ubuntu bugs against the Launchpad project(s) any more.
[09:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145472 in launchpad "Acer Aspire 5050 - Sound doesn't work" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145472
[09:28] <mpt> but they *do* ask Ubuntu questions, and that's what baffles me.
[09:28] <mpt> Where by "don't" I mean "hardly ever" :-P
[09:28] <Hobbsee> mpt: the documentation probably points them without the ubuntu on the end?
[09:28] <Hobbsee> and probably because LP is still difficult to use, if you've not seen it before
[09:29] <mpt> What documentation? Something in Ubuntu Help? Something on the wiki? Something in Launchpad itself?
[09:29] <mpt> Sure, I know Launchpad is difficult to use. I mean, specifically.
[09:29] <Hobbsee> i'd guess ubuntu help & wiki
[09:29] <mpt> There is some misleading link, or misleading field, somewhere
[09:29] <Hobbsee> mpt: we're still getting people going "oh, i cant find package X in launcphad - it says it doesnt use this to track it's bugs.  this cant be right.  help, i'm lost!"
[09:29] <Hobbsee> probably
[09:30] <pwnguin> as hard to use as launchpad may or may not be
[09:30] <mpt> Yes, (I'm almost certain) I know why *that* problem exists -- it's because we have something that looks like a search field that searches only projects, not packages
[09:30] <pwnguin> its better than the alternatives =/
[09:30] <mpt> But that's a separate problem.
[09:30] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: that's true.  although i like kde's bugzilla in some ways
[09:31] <pwnguin> ultimately i think its a branding issue
[09:31] <Hobbsee> ubuntu.com is pointing to the right page
[09:32] <Hobbsee> might be from the forums
[09:32] <pwnguin> if people start using say bugs.ubuntu.com instead of "launchpad"
[09:32] <pwnguin> in ubuntu
[09:34] <mpt> Hmm, our refer[r] er logs might contain the answer
[09:35] <Hobbsee> mpt: uh, yeah.
[09:35] <Hobbsee> mpt: i thougth you'd have checked that, before asking :)
[09:36] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: on the release notes and such, it's "The ubuntu bugtracker"
[09:37] <pwnguin> how the heck DO they do that?
[09:38] <pwnguin> it takes some effort to report against LP itself =/
[09:39] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: never underestimate the power of clueless people.
[09:39] <Hobbsee> AHEM.  did i say that?
[09:39] <Hobbsee> i must have been working too much
[09:40] <pwnguin> mpt: considered asking him when you close the bug?
[09:44] <mpt> This is not about bugs
[09:44] <mpt> The equivalent problem for bugs is now (almost completely) solved
[09:44] <mpt> This is about questions.
[09:44] <mpt> urgh, I can't open source package pages any more
[09:47] <mpt> Ah, it's an edge-only problem
[09:55] <ubotu> New bug: #145493 in soyuz "Source package page oopses on edge" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145493
[09:59] <Hobbsee> mpt: oh yay, you saw my bug :)
[09:59] <mpt> hmm?
[10:01] <Hobbsee> mpt: the versions/maintainer/etc panel on launchpad
[10:03] <mpt> oh, in bug pages
[10:03] <mpt> yes
[10:03] <mpt> It's awkward, because we're also trying to make the bug pages less context-specific
[10:04] <mpt> (so that the same bug doesn't end up in Google umpteen times)
[10:05] <mpt> And that box was the one big context-specific thing.
[10:05] <mpt> The one big thing about the bug page (apart from the headings) that was different from context to context.
[10:11] <Daviey> Hey, are you LP admins around with DB acess?
[10:22] <Daviey> schwuk: Do you have DB access to LP?
[10:23] <schwuk> Daviey: Not directly.
[10:23] <Daviey> poop... i need a Poll removed :(
[10:28] <mwh> file a Question, i think
[10:28] <Daviey> mwh: done :)
[10:28] <mwh> k
[01:08] <TomaszD> carlos, 9 days for rosetta .po import. Will it make it before the final langpack is created? :P
[01:09] <carlos> I hope it :-(
[01:09] <carlos> we are planning a workaround to get this complete as soon as possible
[01:10] <TomaszD> oh man, I wish I just used the batch option and translated this in rosetta instead of uploading the po file
[01:14] <TomaszD> carlos, still no langpack this week :(
[01:15] <carlos> well, it's planned to be done today or tomorrow
[01:15] <carlos> with beta release, the archive was closed
[01:16] <TomaszD> yeah
[02:03] <Ng> what is implied by marking a LP project as inactive? does it disappear?
[02:35] <hexmode> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~hexmode/+junk/i2ce-debian ... Doesn't seem to be mirroring
[02:35] <hexmode> the problem was fixed
[03:35] <ubotu> New bug: #145624 in malone "Malone footer text partly non-clickable" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145624
[03:41] <ubotu> New bug: #145626 in malone "Malone milestone lists shows last bug twice" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145626
[03:58] <statik> me
[03:59] <statik> hey there stub, what's the weather like this time of year?
[04:00] <bigjools-afk> me
[04:00] <cprov> me
[04:00] <salgado> SteveA is not going to be around today, right?
[04:00] <statik> right
[04:01] <salgado> is mpt going to chair the meeting, then?
[04:01] <bac> isn't kiko our leader today?
[04:01] <salgado> maybe. I don't remember
[04:01] <gmb> That's the idea, yes.
[04:02] <mpt> kiko?
[04:02] <flacoste> me
[04:03] <salgado> we're calling him. he's not working from the office today
[04:03] <SteveA> salgado: I'm not around today
[04:03] <statik> sweet fancy moses I just saw a ghost
[04:04] <SteveA> mpt: would you chair today's meeting please?
[04:04] <mpt> ok
[04:04] <mpt> MEETING TIME
[04:04] <mpt> For the next I-don't-know-how-many minutes, we'll be discussing Launchpad development.
[04:04] <gmb> allenap just said "me" out loud.
[04:04] <mpt> Who is here today?
[04:04] <statik> me
[04:04] <sinzui> me
[04:04] <allenap> me
[04:04] <flacoste> me
[04:04] <bigjools> me
[04:04] <gmb> me
[04:04] <jtv> me
[04:04] <intellectronica> me
[04:04] <bac> me
[04:04] <jsk> me
[04:04] <adeuring> me
[04:04] <ddaa> me
[04:04] <BjornT> me
[04:04] <barry> me
[04:04] <salgado> me
[04:04] <stub> me
[04:04] <jsk> gmb: lol
[04:05] <cprov> me
[04:05] <jamesh> me
[04:05] <matsubara> me
[04:05] <mrevell> meme
[04:05] <mrevell> er, me
[04:05] <mpt> We're spreading memes
[04:05] <danilos> me
[04:05] <ddaa> mwh seems to be late, he went out to collect his fixed laptop
[04:06] <mpt> ok
[04:06] <mpt> team leads, please check the presence of your colleagues
[04:06] <mpt> == Agenda ==
[04:06] <jtv> Trying to get to carlos...
[04:06] <mpt>  * Next meeting
[04:06] <mpt>  * Actions from last meeting
[04:06] <mpt>  * Oops report (Matsubara)
[04:06] <mpt>  * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)
[04:06] <mpt>  * Bug tags
[04:06] <mpt>  * Operations report (mthaddon)
[04:06] <mpt>  * DBA report (stub)
[04:06] <mpt>  * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)
[04:06] <schwuk> a belated me
[04:06] <mpt>  * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)
[04:06] <mpt>  * Poll: who has read the "critical situations" policy - SteveA
[04:07] <mpt>  * Importance for bugs related to missing/failing tests - flacoste
[04:07] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[04:07] <mpt>  * Blockers
[04:07] <matsubara> mpt: I think the poll is from the last week meeting
[04:07] <mpt> At this point I should apologize for not having published the notes from the last two weeks' meetings yet
[04:07] <mwh> here now
[04:07] <mpt> so the agenda is probably out of date
[04:07] <mpt> If you have any subtractions or additions to make, please /msg me
[04:08] <Hobbsee> mpt: poll was done last week, iirc.
[04:08] <mpt> ok.
[04:08] <mpt> == Apologies ==
[04:08] <SteveA> me
[04:08] <Hobbsee> "yes, i read it, and it was interesting, thrilling even." or something
[04:08] <jtv> gripping, I believe
[04:08] <SteveA> as in "I apologise for not being here today"
[04:08] <Hobbsee> ah, gripping.  that's it.
[04:08] <intellectronica> still is thrilling. i read it daily
[04:08] <mpt> It appears that most of the apologies are out of date
[04:09] <mpt> ah, and mwh is here now
[04:09] <mpt> so, all the apologies are from previous weeks
[04:09] <mpt> ok, moving on
[04:09] <mpt> == Actions from last meeting ==
[04:09] <flacoste> Rinchen and thumper are on vacation this week
[04:09] <mpt>  * matsubara to get feedback from team leads about any security concerns in giving them access to the shared staging mailbox (unfinished from last week)
[04:09] <mpt> That smells old. Is it?
[04:09] <flacoste> that's also old stuff
[04:09] <mpt> ok
[04:09] <jtv> we've done that *twice*
[04:09] <mpt> no others
[04:09] <statik> that is so 2007
[04:09] <matsubara> it's old mpt
[04:09] <mpt> == Oops report ==
[04:10] <mpt> (matsubara)
[04:10] <matsubara> Today's oops report is about bugs 132270
[04:10] <ubotu> Bug 132270 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/132270 is private
[04:10] <matsubara> jamesh, news about #132270? It's been happening for quite some time now.
[04:10] <lamont> dear launchpad: I want to have https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/postfix/+latest go to the right place
[04:10] <danilos> mpt: that's old, we've had an OOPS report last week
[04:10] <mpt> danilos, nice try
[04:11] <iwj> BjornT: Any news on my vanishing emails ?
[04:11] <matsubara> jamesh: ?
[04:11] <jamesh> matsubara: I haven't done a fix for that.  Has it been happening in production?
[04:11] <cprov> lamont: yes, please.
[04:11] <matsubara> jamesh: yes
[04:11] <jamesh> (sorry, was waiting for the bug page to load)
[04:11] <BjornT> iwj: no, not yet
[04:12] <iwj> BjornT: Hmm.  There doesn't seem to be much point me turning the package tester back on until the emails are going to have some effect ...
[04:13] <matsubara> jamesh: it's been triggered 6 times since last week.
[04:13] <jamesh> matsubara: I'll have a look into it -- I think we've can handle that case with a failed assertion response rather than an OOPS
[04:13] <jamesh> (I wonder if that bug needs to be private still?)
[04:14] <matsubara> jamesh: it's private because it deals with the SSO stuff. up to you to make it public
[04:14] <carlos> me
[04:14] <BjornT> iwj: oh, i didn't realize it was blocking you. i'll take a look at it later today/tonight
[04:14] <carlos> sorry, I was distracted...
[04:14] <mpt> ok, is that all for the oops report?
[04:14] <matsubara> jamesh: thanks for handling that.
[04:14] <iwj> BjornT: Thanks.
[04:15] <matsubara> mpt: I'm done with oops report. I'll follow on with Critical bugs
[04:15] <mpt> == Critical bugs (matsubara filling in for Rinchen) ==
[04:15] <matsubara> We have 3 not in progress critical bugs 129942, 141614, 141652.
[04:15] <ubotu> Bug 129942 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/129942 is private
[04:15] <matsubara> mpt, what's the status of #129942 (btw, that bug doesn't seem critical by DefinitionofCriticalPolicy)
[04:15] <matsubara> #141614 is another one for you mpt.
[04:15] <matsubara> sinzui can you check #141652? It looks like a janitor issue.
[04:15] <matsubara> cprov, have an ETA for bug 144392?
[04:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 144392 in soyuz "cron.daily dies after poppy restart because of permission problems with queue dot-lock file" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144392 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)
[04:16] <cprov> matsubara: it's pending review, isn't it ?
[04:16] <ubotu> New bug: #145640 in launchpad "Got an oops looking for openoffice.org2" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145640
[04:16] <lamont> OOPS-635EA140  
[04:16] <lamont> hrm... is that supposed to happen?
[04:16] <mpt> matsubara, 129942 is critical because Mark needs it. I'll do it tomorrow.
[04:16] <mpt> 141614 I don't know how to fix, except that reverting 2007-09-privates probably would do it
[04:17] <matsubara> cprov: thank you
[04:17] <mpt> so I'll get Brilliant onto it if I can get in touch with them in the next day, otherwise I will revert
[04:17] <sinzui> salgado: it is a duplicate of bug 141597
[04:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141597 in malone "bug janitor expires bug reports that should remain open." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141597 - Assigned to Curtis Hovey (sinzui-is)
[04:17] <salgado> sinzui, s/salgado/matsubara/?
[04:18] <sinzui> my applogies
[04:18] <matsubara> hello ddaa 
[04:18] <matsubara> sinzui: please mark it as a dupe then
[04:18] <ddaa> matsubara: ?
[04:18] <matsubara> ddaa: just joking. it seems that sinzui can tell me and salgado apart
[04:19] <matsubara> ddaa: like you :-)
[04:19] <matsubara> thanks mpt.
[04:19] <matsubara> I'm done.
[04:19] <mpt> ok, thanks matsubara 
[04:19] <mpt> == Bug tags ==
[04:19] <ddaa> I can tell you apart IRL, it's just that I be confused by the nicknames somehow.
[04:19] <mpt> There are four proposed tags: oops-tools, librarian, foaf, and another one
[04:20] <mpt> Are these all from this week?
[04:20] <cprov> matsubara: sorry, I was distracted with a soyuz issue ... uhm, yes that fix is pending-review from kiko, I will poke him later.
[04:20] <mpt> Or have they already been discussed?
[04:20] <mrevell> mpt: I believe they're new this week.
[04:20] <flacoste> they are current
[04:20] <matsubara> cprov: that's all right. if it's in the queue everything is fine. thanks
[04:20] <mpt> ok
[04:21] <mpt>  * oops-tools, proposed by matsubara
[04:21] <flacoste> +1
[04:21] <mpt> Bugs related to the scripts used to generate oops reports, oops.cgi and the processes related to oops in general
[04:21] <mpt> There are 7 examples that have the tag already
[04:22] <mpt> Actually, since neither SteveA, nor kiko, nor Rinchen are here, we're not really in a position to decide on any of these
[04:22] <flacoste> then defer
[04:22] <mpt> right
[04:22] <mpt> Tags deferred to next week.
[04:23] <mpt> == Operations report (mthaddon) ==
[04:23] <mpt> ... Isn't here.
[04:23] <flacoste> tom is also on vacation this week
[04:23] <mpt> stub, do you have anything to say about operations?
[04:23] <stub> staging is screwed atm due to unusable backups.
[04:23] <stub> friday rollouts suck
[04:24] <stub> erm...
[04:24] <salgado> stub, do we have an ETA for staging to be updated again?
[04:24] <stub> Hopefully tomorrow
[04:24] <mpt> ok, thanks stub
[04:24] <mpt> and now for an encore
[04:24] <mpt> == DBA report (stub) ==
[04:24] <stub> If it doesn't come back tomorrow, then it is blocked on other issues being sorted.
[04:24] <stub> My email is only trickling in at the moment I think due to blockage at one of my providers.
[04:24] <stub> The postgresql crasher we had has been reported upstream and a fix apparently landed to upstream CVS. We need to get this fix onto our production systems as the current work around only makes it less likely to strike us.
[04:24] <stub> We still have the 'syntax error' issue with the full text indexes to track down and deal with.
[04:24] <stub> staging is dead due to unusable backups, again tsearch2 seems to be the trigger and it is possibly related to the syntax error problem.
[04:24] <stub> The corruption I discovered on the bug table has been repaired.
[04:24] <stub> Load is now becoming a problem, particularly noticible with the Rosetta imports and exports, so sorting out our replication is my priority now when not firefighting. Hopefully the fires will die out enough for this to happen before things fall over.
[04:25] <stub> Waiting on a go ahead to unexpire the expired bugs using sinzui's script.
[04:25] <ubotu> New bug: #145642 in launchpad "please add +latest support to source URL" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145642
[04:25] <sinzui> Kiko wanted to review a sample of the changes. I waiting for a two-thumbs-up-thunderbirds-are-go-but-I-will-accept-a-simple-go from kiko.
[04:26] <stub> sounds like all
[04:26] <mpt> marvellous
[04:26] <carlos> stub: we are working on performance improvements to reduce the load caused by import/export scripts
[04:27] <mpt> == Sysadmin requests (mrevell filling in for Rinchen) ==
[04:27] <matsubara> I thought that would be me
[04:27] <carlos> and the phase2 db changes that we are starting this cycle should also reduce that problem a bit (just to make sure you don't need to do work that maybe we fix improving our model/code)
[04:27] <mrevell> matsubara: Please go ahead, following our earlier conversation.
[04:27] <matsubara> anyway, if anyone has any pending RT please speak
[04:27] <matsubara> I'll pass them on to joey.
[04:27] <mpt> 28993, fixing brilliant.launchpad.net
[04:28] <mpt> It's kinda urgent now
[04:28] <matsubara> if it needs to be solved this week, I'll try to contact elmo or kiko
[04:28] <matsubara> noted mpt 
[04:28] <matsubara> I'll follow up on that with kiko after the meeting.
[04:28] <mpt> thanks
[04:28] <matsubara> anyone else?
[04:28] <matsubara> 5
[04:28] <matsubara> 4
[04:28] <matsubara> 3
[04:28] <matsubara> 2
[04:28] <matsubara> 1
[04:29] <matsubara> ok, back to you mpt 
[04:29] <mpt> thanks
[04:29] <stub> carlos: We still need replication to be scalable - the imports and exports will never be free.
[04:29] <mpt> == A top user-affecting issue (mrevell) ==
[04:29] <mrevell> With the release of Launchpad 1.1.9, I came to realise that we need a more robust way to pre-announce changes that we plan to introduce to the way Launchpad works.
[04:29] <mrevell> I'm working on a new process for announcing coming changes and, in particular, highlighting any major changes. 
[04:30] <carlos> stub: ok
[04:30] <mrevell> Today, I've posted to the launchpad-users list with my ideas for the process (subject "Announcing Coming Changes in Launchpad").
[04:30] <Hobbsee> mrevell: like the mess of auto-closing bugs?
[04:30] <mrevell> Please reply if you have a suggestion or question regarding the way I/we announce coming changes in Launchpad.
[04:30] <mpt> Hobbsee, exactly.
[04:30] <ubotu> New bug: #145647 in launchpad "OOPS-635EC98 on https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/util-linux" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145647
[04:30] <danilos> Hobbsee: you are making sinzui hurt
[04:30] <mrevell> Hobbsee: Well, that's certainly a feature that would get special attention under the new process
[04:30] <stub> carlos: And your changes if they improve throughput might increase load, making replication more of an issue
[04:31] <mrevell> Sorry, I shouldn't say I've posted with my ideas for the process, I've posted to start discussiokn
[04:31] <sinzui> danilos: Hobbsee: my self-esteem is so low right now I'm living on sarcasm.
[04:31] <Hobbsee> mrevell: although sometimes, even though we knew about the auto-bug closing, we didnt know that it would do it for bugs that had been commented on in the last 60 days too.
[04:31] <mrevell> anyway, looking forward to hearing what people have to say
[04:31] <mrevell> Hobbsee: I see, right. Well, there are definitely lessons to be learned and we will learn them :)
[04:31] <mpt> Hobbsee, to be fair, nobody knew that. That was a bug.
[04:31] <Hobbsee> mpt: ah right
[04:31] <mrevell> mpt thanks, back to you boss.
[04:31] <mpt> Wait, I'm your boss now? You're confusing me
[04:32] <Hobbsee> oh, and related to that....please do *NOT* release on a friday!!!!  Especially when we're not in hte middle of a ubuntu freeze!!!
[04:32] <carlos> stub: maybe :-)
[04:32] <mpt> == Importance for bugs related to missing/failing tests - flacoste ==
[04:32] <jsk> Hobbsee: +1
[04:32] <mrevell> mpt: boss of the meeting
[04:32] <flacoste> While triaging bugs I found many bugs for "missing/disabled" tests.
[04:32] <flacoste> Most of these bugs didn't have a priority set or it was Low/Medium.
[04:32] <flacoste> This doesn't seem right to me and I'd like us to define a policy for such
[04:32] <flacoste> bugs.
[04:32] <flacoste> I'll take it to the list for further discussion.
[04:32] <sinzui> Hobbsee: yes, we voilated warsaws laws, and paid the pentality
[04:32] <Hobbsee> please do not introduce the possibility of screwing over ubuntu work, unless you are willing to stick around on teh weekend and fix any breakage.
[04:32] <flacoste> back to our host, mpt
[04:33] <Hobbsee> or phear the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :P
[04:33] <mpt> thanks flacoste 
[04:33] <Hobbsee> sinzui: yes...
[04:33] <mpt> Which, I think, leaves us only with
[04:33] <mpt> == Blockers ==
[04:34] <mpt> Team leads, please report
[04:34] <flacoste> Foundations Team: not blocked
[04:34] <mrevell> RELEASES TEAM: mpt blocked on RT request 28993 regarding replacing brilliant.launchpad.net. Matsubara to chase IS.
[04:34] <barry> sinzui: warsaw's 2nd law to be precise :)
[04:34] <jtv> Translations Team: not blocked
[04:34] <bigjools> Soyuz Team: not blocked
[04:34] <adeuring> HWDB Team: not blocked
[04:34] <BjornT> Bugs: kiko to give sinzui the go-ahead to revert the expiring of bugs
[04:35] <ddaa> Code Team: not blocked
[04:35] <statik> collaborative commerce: not blocked
[04:36] <mpt> That everyone?
[04:36] <flacoste> missing the swat team
[04:36] <mpt> looks like it
[04:36] <mpt> ah yes
[04:36] <mpt> Special Ops team, come in please
[04:37] <flacoste> SteveA is not here
[04:37] <mpt> jamesh?
[04:37] <flacoste> jamesh, stub?
[04:37] <stub> Not blocked
[04:37] <jamesh> not blocked either
[04:37] <stub> SC: not blocked
[04:37] <mpt> ok, excellent
[04:38] <mpt> And that brings another Launchpad development meeting to a close
[04:38] <mpt> MEETING ENDS
[04:38] <flacoste> thanks mpt!
[04:38] <mpt> thank you everyone
[04:38] <barry> thanks mpt
[04:38] <mwh> thanks mpt
[04:38] <mrevell> thanks mpt
[04:38] <jsk> mpt: cheers ;)
[04:38] <statik> thanks mpt
[04:39] <gmb> thanks mpt
[04:39] <gmb> Someone get him some flowers or something...
[04:39] <mrevell> :)
[04:41] <stub> Anyone send me anything urgent since I haven't seen your emails?
[04:45] <Hobbsee> sinzui: you're the auto-closing bug man, i take it?
[04:47] <sinzui> Hobbsee: I am cause of the conflagration.
[04:48] <Hobbsee> sinzui: i wasnt going to particularly roast you over it, dont worry
[04:49] <Hobbsee> sinzui: i've had a thought, though.  we often get users who will give us the required information, yet wont reset the status of the bug.  when the auto-closing was put in, i'd expected it to become more like the answers section - a button for "i've provided the required info" which resets the status, and another for "i'm adding a comment which isnt the info which is being asked for".
[04:49] <Hobbsee> (in proper LPesque)
[04:49] <Hobbsee> sinzui: were there plans to implement that?
[04:50] <sinzui> Hobbsee: that has been discussed in more than one bug
[04:51] <Hobbsee> sinzui: right.  i havent looked it up.
[04:51] <Hobbsee> what was the outcome?
[04:52] <sinzui> Hobbsee: I believe the general issue with is is that bug status are meant to be a forward path to Fix Released, Wont Fix, or Invalid. Bug statuses should not go backwards.
[04:52] <sinzui> Hobbsee: So the button is really a worflow operation. 
[04:52] <Hobbsee> sinzui: which requires that a developer, or someone else, actually gets to the bug to mark it as confirmed, by the required time.
[04:53] <Hobbsee> sinzui: my problem basically is bugs that we ask for info on, they respond, but we dont get back to in time - and they die.
[04:53] <Hobbsee> sinzui: really, i'd like to split the bugs into "they've given us the required info - set it back to the previous until i set it something else", or "they havent provided info.  kill it."
[04:54] <sinzui> Hobbsee: It is clear that many, (I'd guess 20%) of users believe that Incomplete can mean 'I'm blocked, I need more information'. That is a separate, and I think valid issue.
[04:54] <Hobbsee> what's incomplete supposed to mean then?
[04:54] <Hobbsee> "this is missing information"
[04:54] <Hobbsee> "i dont have enough info to solve your problem.  i need x,y, and z"
[04:55] <sinzui> Hobbsee: The path is New -> (Incomplete) -> Confirmed. Incomplete is an extra step to get it to confirmed.
[04:55] <Hobbsee> sinzui: indeed, but the problme is, the reporters arent marking them as confirmed when they get the info.
[04:55] <sinzui> Incomplete meas that their is not enough information to identify the report as a bug
[04:56] <lamont> Hobbsee: the reporter shouldn't be marking it confirmed
[04:56] <Hobbsee> sinzui: they put the info, and dont change the status (and the fact that the LP UI is horrid (sorry, mpt) for those who havent seen it before, to attempt to change statuses doesnt help with that)
[04:56] <Hobbsee> lamont: then it relies on a triager, or a dev to get back to it within 60 days - and that's dangerous.
[04:56] <lamont> or should they?
[04:56] <lamont> could they move it back to 'New'?
[04:56] <Hobbsee> lamont: because a whole subset of the packages with large bugs in main dont really have paid devs to deal with them, and so they move very slowly.
[04:57] <Hobbsee> lamont: i'm thinking they should move back to new, or whatever they were before.
[04:57] <lamont> I like that answer
[04:57] <Hobbsee> lamont: this is talking about hte real world - not the ideal case.
[04:58] <Hobbsee> i think sinzui is dealing with the ideal case here - that someone will always look at the bugs quickly, when more info has been provided.
[04:58] <sinzui> Hobbsee: That does happen, I found a few examples in my review. But comment activity will alleviate much of that. I think we should start this feature at 60 days without comments...send a warning. 30 days later expire it
[04:58] <Hobbsee> sinzui: the other problem is that people tend to ignore needsinfo bugs, as they still need info.
[04:59] <Hobbsee> although i think this may have been helped with the new 1.1.9, with the new statuses
[04:59] <Hobbsee> in the search
[04:59] <sinzui> Hobbsee: that is why the warning will be helpful. bug 141604
[04:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 141604 in malone "Expiration janitor should put an expiration notice on bug page" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/141604 - Assigned to Curtis Hovey (sinzui-is)
[04:59] <charliecb> hi
[04:59] <Hobbsee> sinzui: perhaps.  so we effectively get 90 days to respond, instead of 60.
[05:00] <charliecb> i have a question: when i create a new project on launchpad and upload some sourcecode, which license has this code? i didn't find an option to choose for the registered project on launchpad...
[05:01] <sinzui> Hobbsee: yep. Just sending a follow up message asking if the user is still having the problem will add 60 more days before another warning.
[05:01] <Hobbsee> sinzui: works fine, assuming someone gets to it.
[05:02] <Hobbsee> sinzui: seeing sa in some of the source packages i've seen, we've got bugs from *breezy* there....
[05:46] <asac> hmm ... https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox <- broken ... while https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/thunderbird works
[05:46] <asac> any maintenance work going on? but why would that be for firefox?
[05:47] <gmb> asac: It's not a maintenance thing. It looks like a bug.
[05:47] <asac> :( ... let me see if it still works if i disable beta
[05:47] <Ubulette> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox works
[05:47] <Ubulette> so it's edge
[05:47] <gmb> Oh, joy.
[05:48] <asac> maybe its because firefox has too many bugs :-D
[05:48] <gmb> I'll file a bug report for this. Thanks for the heads-up asac, Ubulette.
[05:48] <asac> gmb: thanks for taking over ... its essential for me to work on my main package ;)
[05:49] <asac> for now i can do 2 hour batches then ;)
[05:49] <radix> when you start getting an error page, you know it's time to rest your eyes and wrists ;-)
[05:57] <gmb> asac: Filed as bug 145679.
[05:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145679 in launchpad "OOPS when viewing Ubuntu Firefox Source Package on Edge" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145679
[05:57] <gmb> asac: If you come across any more instances of this, please feel free to add a comment to the bug.
[05:59] <pochu> asac: it isn't blocked in the NEW queue, is it?
[06:00] <matsubara> gmb, asac: I'm duping all of them against bug 145493. Please, use that one as the master bug
[06:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145493 in soyuz "Source package page oopses on edge" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145493
[06:00] <gmb> Thanks matsubara.
[06:01] <ubotu> New bug: #145679 in launchpad "OOPS when viewing Ubuntu Firefox Source Package on Edge (dup-of: 145493)" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145679
[06:01] <asac> gmb: ok ... let me subscribe
[06:01] <matsubara> asac, gmb: I believe Mark fixed it in r4934
[06:02] <asac> any eta for roll-out?
[06:03] <matsubara> asac: the issue seems to affect only edge. next rollout will be tomorrow morning (~5utc)
[06:03] <asac> great
[06:04] <matsubara> workaround is to use launchpad.net
[06:04] <asac> today 2 hours are enough for ffox work
[06:31] <norsetto> cprov: you may know. what should I do to get my ubuntu.com address working?
[06:32] <cprov> norsetto: I don't know what's the current procedure to do so, maybe talk to elmo.
[06:32] <norsetto> elmo: James? Do you know?
[06:33] <elmo> norsetto: what's your LP ID?
[06:33] <norsetto> elmo: norsetto
[07:00] <norsetto> * cough * 
[07:01] <norsetto> anyone has a fisherman?
[07:15] <elmo> norsetto: should be fixed now
[07:15] <norsetto> elmo: much obliged
[07:46] <ubotu> New bug: #145719 in soyuz "please strip signature from ppa changes announce mail to prevent uploads to real archive" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145719
[08:07] <jnthnjng> I'm curious -- can I satisfy dependencies in my PPA builds from the backports repositories?  or is it only possible to satisfy dependencies from main, universe and multiverse?
[08:07] <kiko> jnthnjng, currently, only from main, universe and multiverse
[08:08] <jnthnjng> kiko: thanks.  Is there any plan to allow backports in the future, or not?
[08:08] <kiko> jnthnjng, there's a plan to allow depending on other archives, yes.
[08:09] <jnthnjng> ok, cool.  Thanks.
[08:11] <pwnguin> do build depends often make it into -backports?
[08:13] <jnthnjng> pwnguin: good point.  I was thinking about backporting git-buildpackage which has a dependency on a git from feisty backports, but it's not a build-dep now that I think about it.
[08:15] <pwnguin> i think you CAN build dep on other packages in your ppa
[08:16] <kiko> right -- only in your own PPA.
[08:17] <jnthnjng> yeah
[09:01] <ubotu> New bug: #145746 in launchpad "Upgrade to zope 3.3.1" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145746
[09:59] <statik> EdwinGrubbs: hi
[09:59] <EdwinGrubbs> statik: hey
[10:00] <statik> EdwinGrubbs: oh sorry, wrong channel/server
[10:25] <Arkard> Hi to everyone
[10:26] <Arkard> is someone here?
[10:26] <glatzor> hello how often are the ppa's upload queues refreshed?
[10:27] <Arkard> Dunno, daily suppose
[10:27] <glatzor> I uploaded a source package some hours ago and haven't yet recieved a failure or success note
[10:27] <Arkard> i there any admin here, i need to ask him something
[10:27] <kiko> glatzor, that's very unusual. 
[10:28] <kiko> Arkard, I'm an admin!
[10:28] <Arkard> Hi, how are you?
[10:28] <Arkard> is just that i need some information
[10:28] <kiko> I'm suffering from DNS timeouts. apart from that I'm okay.
[10:28] <kiko> sure, ask away.
[10:28] <Arkard> i want to be an Ambassador of Kubuntu in Nicaragua
[10:28] <Arkard> how can i do that?
[10:29] <kiko> Arkard, I'm curious: why do you think #launchpad is the right place to ask about that?
[10:30] <Arkard> because i jsut registered in launchpad as part of the Ubuntu Ambassadors team
[10:30] <glatzor> Arkard: you have to set up a l10n team for Nicaraua and the community council will make it an official team
[10:31] <Arkard> what is a |10n?
[10:31] <Arkard> can you help me glatzor?
[10:31] <Arkard> Sorry my bad English im not perfect T_T
[10:32] <pwnguin> Arkard: l10n is "localization"
[10:32] <kiko> Arkard, launchpad just hosts the team for kubuntu. we don't have anything to do with kubuntu's structure itself :)
[10:32] <pwnguin> Arkard: it's translating strings and related work for a regional group of people
[10:33] <Arkard> i see
[10:33] <glatzor> Arkard: sorry, I meant loco team
[10:33] <kiko> Riddell, where should Arkard ask about that?
[10:33] <Arkard> yeah, all help is welcome :D
[10:33] <glatzor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto
[10:34] <Arkard> let me see glatzor :D
[10:34] <glatzor> kiko: could you check where my uploads ended? I uploaded a displayconfig-gtk 0.3 package into my ppa (glatzor) and the one of the displayconfig-gtk team
[10:34] <Arkard> i really wish to be the oficial representant of Kubuntu in Nicaragua :D
[10:36] <kiko> glatzor, not really. did your source package at least show up?
[10:36] <glatzor> ppa.launchpad.net/glatzor does not even exist
[10:37] <Arkard> glatzor, there is an Ubuntu team in Nicaragua, is there a problem?
[10:37] <glatzor> Arkard: if you are not involved in yet, I would say yes :)
[10:38] <Arkard> why?
[10:42] <pwnguin> Arkard: there's already a team you can join...
[10:45] <Arkard> but they are Ubuntu, and i want to cover exactly Kubuntu, will be that a Problem?
[10:49] <pwnguin> you know, i havent thought about it, but id wager the LoCo teams cover both ubuntu and kubuntu interested people
[10:50] <pwnguin> anyways, the most important thing to take from this is that launchpad is seperate from Ubuntu. there are more appropriate places to ask ubuntu related questions
[10:55] <glatzor> kiko: who could help me with the ppa issue?
[11:03] <kiko> glatzor, uhh, have you activated your PPA?
[11:03] <glatzor> kiko: for sure
[11:03] <glatzor> [my-ppa] 
[11:03] <glatzor> fqdn = ppa.launchpad.net
[11:03] <glatzor> method = ftp
[11:03] <glatzor> incoming = ~glatzor/ubuntu/
[11:03] <glatzor> login = anonymous
[11:03] <glatzor> allow_unsigned_uploads = 0
[11:04] <glatzor> this is my dput configuration
[11:04] <kiko> that is strange.
[11:04] <kiko> cprov-afk, any clue?
[11:04] <kiko> glatzor, it's very likely that you are uploading a package with a broken .dsc or .changes file.
[11:05] <kiko> and in broken I mean "non-conforming"
[11:05] <kiko> glatzor, is your GPG key uploaded to launchpad? is it the same GPG key you used to sign your upload?
[11:05] <kiko> glatzor, and are you sure? :)
[11:07] <glatzor> kiko: ok, I am a fool. The gnupg key was outdated :/
[11:07] <glatzor> thanks
[11:07] <kiko> glatzor, the reason you don't get email is that we have no way of knowing what your email address is from the missing key :)
[11:18] <Kmos> OOPS-635EC168
[11:18] <Kmos> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pbuilder
[11:18] <Kmos> i'm getting an OOPS here
[11:19] <kiko> Kmos, it's a bug.
[11:19] <kiko> I'll report it 
[11:21] <Kmos> kiko: ok, thx
[11:24] <matsubara> it's already reported and fix committed
[11:25] <matsubara> Kmos, kiko: bug 145493
[11:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145493 in soyuz "Source package page oopses on edge" [Critical,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145493 - Assigned to Mark Shuttleworth (sabdfl)
[11:26] <kiko> ah
[11:27] <Kmos> :-)
[11:27] <Kmos> matsubara: thx
[11:28] <matsubara> Kmos: np
[11:30] <kiko> Kmos, doh.
[11:31] <Kmos> kiko: ?
[11:32] <cprov-afk> glatzor: is this your key "Signing key 1005044E895638A095B2B0047AE8E8AC934C22D5 not registered in launchpad." ?
[11:32] <kiko> it was already reported!
[11:32] <Kmos> kiko :)
[11:32] <glatzor> cprov-afk: yes
[11:32] <kiko> cprov-afk, could we perchance look the key up in the keyserver and if there is an email address, email the failure to that person?
[11:33] <cprov-afk> kiko: in this case, it's not even in the keyserver. 
[11:34] <cprov-afk> kiko: but we could.
[11:34] <kiko> cprov-afk, is there anything in his upload that could suggest to us he owned it? maintainer, changed-by, etc?
[11:35] <cprov-afk> kiko: don't know, nascentupload gives up very early when it can't verify the key using insecure policy
[11:35] <kiko> yeah I know
[11:35] <kiko> but it's annoying that we don't give /any/ feedback.
[11:35] <kiko> cprov-afk, hmmm. could we get /poppy/ to look the key up and fail?
[11:35] <kiko> i.e. the user's upload would fail if the key wasn't in LP.
[11:36] <kiko> that way he'd get notified immediately.
[11:36] <cprov-afk> kiko: FTP doesn't seem to be a good transport to implement it, don't you think ?
[11:36] <glatzor> kiko: how long does an average build take before it gets performed?
[11:37] <cprov-afk> kiko: I have to go now, I will call you tonight to chat more about this idea.
[11:37] <cprov-afk> glatzor: not more than 20 minutes.
[11:39] <kiko> cprov-out, can we not give failure to upload somehow in FTP?
[11:42] <elmo> kiko: you can, but I'm not sure it's a good idea
[11:42] <elmo> kiko: it's a massive change in API for rejections
[11:43] <kiko> elmo, the problem is that we have no other way of giving the user feedback in the case of an invalid or unregistered key, AFAICS.
[11:43] <elmo> kiko: and I'd bet large sums of money there'll be tools (dput, dupload, or higher level) not expecting it that'll break
[11:43] <elmo> kiko: hmm
[11:43] <kiko> elmo, do you have any ideas on how we could solve this? it's tricky
[11:44] <kiko> the user signs a package and uploads it. I don't think there's anything in .changes or the .dsc which necessarily identifies him 
[11:44] <elmo> maybe you're right - I don't see a good alternative in this one specific case
[11:44] <kiko> (for instance, a sponsored upload)
[11:44] <elmo> kiko: well the reason we don't mail them is because we can't trust an unsigned upload, so it's anti-abuse mechanism
[11:44] <kiko> so the only thing we have going for us here is the key
[11:44] <elmo> (at least that's why I did it that way in DAK)
[11:44] <kiko> elmo, who could we mail even if we ignored the abuse angle? is it guaranteed that he'd be identified in one of the files?
[11:45] <elmo> not reliably no, especially not for PPA
[11:45] <pwnguin> the uploader?
[11:45] <kiko> right.
[11:45] <elmo> you could use the primary uid of the key, but that's problematic in other ways
[11:45] <pwnguin> not with login=anonymous
[11:46] <kiko> elmo, and in some cases the key doesn't even exist in a public keyserver
[11:46] <kiko> elmo, and then the user comes in to #launchpad and says "waaah". at which point we have to look at the server logs. :)
[11:46] <elmo> kiko: heh, right, so that makes it pretty useless
[11:46] <kiko> elmo, crazy idea: maybe we could make part of the upload logs public?
[11:47] <elmo> kiko: yeah, ok, so ignore me, unfortunately you're right, it's really the only way to deal with it
[11:47] <elmo> kiko: that'll break as soon as we try to do security-in-soyuz
[11:47] <elmo> or commercial PPAs or whatever.  well it'll either break or you'll need a second queue, and that's vulnerable to people getting the wrong queue and more overhead etc.
[11:47] <kiko> elmo, well, just a log of failures, i.e. "Upload at 2009-02-01 12:11:22.011 UTC failed: public key XXX not found"
[11:48] <elmo> kiko: oh, yeah, that'd be fine
[11:48] <elmo> kiko: TBH, I think you'd be best off doing both
[11:48] <kiko> I'm thinking how we'd do that, though
[11:48] <elmo> then if users are using tools which are too fire and forget and don't expose the ftp error to them, they can still find out if they ask without the need for an admin
[11:49] <kiko> elmo, well, how do we advertise the existence of said log? :)
[11:49] <kiko> we'd still get support overhead I think
[11:49] <elmo> PPA FAQ and other similar docs?
[11:49] <kiko> yeah.
[11:49] <kiko> yeah, I guess you're right.
[11:49] <kiko> I'll file a pair of bugs. thanks for the discussion, elmo.
[12:45] <ubotu> New bug: #145849 in soyuz "Uploads with unrecognized keys should be publically logged" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145849