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gnomefreakill deal with it more in dtail whne i get hone/11:34
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ziroday@schedule Singapore01:42
ubotuSchedule for Asia/Singapore: 27 Sep 20:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 23:00: Community Council meeting | 03 Oct 00:00: Kernel Team | 03 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 07 Oct 01:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 20:00: Forum Council01:42
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ubotuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: September 27 2007, 11:42:53 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 17 minutes01:42
bordyAh thats better. Mornin folks!01:42
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=== mvo waves
pittiapology in advance; we are in the midst of the final Beta release steps, so please mention "pitti" if you need an answer quickly01:58
Keybukkwwii, MacSlow: here?02:02
MacSlowsorry was on the loo before the meeting :)02:04
Keybukno problem02:05
Keybuklet's get going then02:05
MootBotMeeting started at 13:05. The chair is Keybuk.02:05
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 02:05
Mithrandirwoo, it has its clock adjusted now!02:06
Keybuk[TOPIC]  apturl support for PPAs02:06
MootBotNew Topic:  apturl support for PPAs02:06
MacSlowwhat's the help-option for these commands?02:06
mvothe Spec (and the current implementation) have a02:06
mvo   apt+http://foo.bar?package=baz syntax that allows adding02:06
mvo   new repositories if the repository is signed with a key02:06
mvo   we have in the apt keyring. The use-case for this was PPA.02:06
mvo   It turns out that PPAs are not signed currently and that it is02:06
mvo   uncertain when they will and with what key. I would like to disable02:06
mvo   this feature in apturl therefore for gutsy and come back to it when02:07
mvo   the situation with the PPAs is more clear. Any objections?02:07
mvoi may add that the feature is currently buggy and that I would prefer to disable it given that the main use-case is currently gone and that there are more things to attack02:07
pittimvo: did you see my q on the ML?02:07
pittiah, buggy in what way? that wasn't mentioned in your initial topic02:08
mvopitti: yes, you said its not worse than gdebi (I agree)02:08
pittiI haven't seen the feature 'live' yet, I have to admin02:08
pittiadmit, even02:08
mvopitti: not well tested as there is notthing really to test against and probably not very useful as the spec requires signed repsoitores02:09
mvothat make it currently a bit mood02:09
pittiI see02:09
mvobecause the only default repositories in the apt keyring are archive.u.c and archive.canonical.com (the later is not enabled by default)02:09
mvothe remainaing bit (easy way to install pkgs via: e.g. apt:2vcard) will remain of course02:10
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pittimvo: what are the bugs why we should disable it?02:10
MacSlowbut isn't the PPA also meant for the broader community and 3rd-parties to have an easy mean to provide easy to install .deb for Ubuntu-users?02:11
pittibut they are not signed, noone knows what's in them, so we shouldn't make it too easy to accidentally ruin your system with them02:11
mvopitti: the code that prevents unsigned repos currently just gives a huge warning, but let the user proceed , that needs to be fixed and it needs to be ensured that its properly rolled back. not a big deal, bu02:12
pittibut that's independent from the reason why we should disable it now02:12
MacSlowand also to help MOTUs a bit with packaging-work... I'm just wondering if the signing (with key in the offical key-ring) is meant to be mandatory02:12
mvobut its something I would have to attend to02:12
pittimvo: I agree, that *is* a problem02:12
Keybukwhat does signing guarantee you in this case/02:13
mvogiven the main use-case is not ready I propose postponing it02:13
Keybukapt signing guarantees repository integrity02:13
Keybuknot trustworthy code02:13
mvobut we don't open the floodgates with it, only to a certain degree (launchpad)02:13
pittiwell, it guarantees that you don't get packages from people or projects for which you haven't made an educated decision to trust them02:13
pittiI wouldn't like to install all PPAs out there02:14
MacSlowbut PPA will not allow binary-only packages... or will it?02:14
pittiMacSlow: doesn't matter02:14
mvowe have some control over LP and PPA, but none over externally hosted repos02:14
pittiMacSlow: arbitrary source packages with buildds are fully enough to hijack your system :)02:14
mvoat least we could stop bad stuff happening02:14
MacSlowpitti, yeah... probably02:14
mvothe idea was to have the ppa signing key in the whitelist for apturl (not enabled by default, but possible to add)02:15
Keybukpitti: anyone can have a PPA though?02:15
pittiKeybuk: right, that's my point02:16
Mithrandirif we open it for PPAs, signed or not, we might just as well open it to the world.02:16
Keybukpitti: so I don't see where the trust is02:16
pittiKeybuk: I might decide to import mvo's gpg key into my apt keyring02:16
KeybukPPAs end up a bit like hotmail accounts02:16
MacSlowbtw... afaik SuSE02:16
pittiKeybuk: so that I can use mvo's PPA with apturl, but not everyone's02:16
MacSlows buildservice allows nearly everything to be build... as long as it builds02:17
Keybukpitti: I thought the original PPA spec was to use a single key for them02:17
pittiKeybuk: erm, I am reasoning under the assumption that PPAs are not signed with the Ubuntu key, but with the uploader's, of course02:17
Mithrandirpitti: how would they be?02:17
pittiKeybuk: eww; that would make them fairly useless02:17
Keybukpitti: I wouldn't get LP my gpg private key :p02:17
MacSlowappearing to "picky" to the outside-world might shed a bad light on Ubuntu02:17
mvoin what way it will be signed is unclear currently02:17
MithrandirLP doesn't (and can't) have my GPG private key.02:17
pittiKeybuk: not my personal one, but certainly I'd create a 'ppa key', sign it with mine, and give it to LP02:18
Keybuksimple fact is that if a user is determined to install something, they will go through whatever steps to install it they need to02:18
pittiKeybuk: hm, it seems we have a more basic problem here then, which needs to be solved before we can even think about apturl02:18
iwjWhen you add a PPA to your configuration you're deciding to trust it.  At that point the relevant key should be added.02:18
iwjAnd when you take it out again it should be removed.02:19
pittiKeybuk: right, but with apturl it gets so easy that you can do  it accidentally02:19
Keybukpitti: I don't agree that it should be hard02:19
iwjAnd obviously PPAs ought to have a key per PPA.02:19
mvoit would be the same amount of work as with gdebi (big warning + password entry)02:19
pittiKeybuk: it should be hard enough so that you have to make an educated decision about it (not hard to discover)02:19
MacSlowwhat about haveing a "rating system" for PPAs... like the main, universe, multiverse repos... to give uneducated users a kind of guideline regarding "trustworthyness"?02:20
pittimvo: warnings don't work with security02:20
Keybukpitti: the only thing I can think of is that when adding an apturl, it gets the public key for it automatically and shows you a "do you trust software signed by this key?" kind of dialog02:20
iwjMacSlow: Who would decide ?  Anyone useful enough to decide that would never want all of the hideous politics.02:20
Keybukthose are whack-a-mole dialogs though02:20
MithrandirKeybuk: and we've all seen how well they work in the windows world.02:20
mvopitti: right, its the "I want to get my work done" thing. but people will try to get their work done anyway and they may use bad scripts if we don't provide something better02:20
Mithrandirit's a typical "do you want me to do what I just told you to?" dialog.02:21
KeybukMithrandir: exactly; "I want this software, stop trying to tell me I don't" is the usual reaction02:21
pittimvo: right, so we have to make sure that we can create per-user trust in PPAs themselves02:21
pittisigning *all* PPAs with the same GPG key is worse than not signing them at all02:21
Keybukusers will jump any fence in the way of them installing the shiny app02:21
pittibecause it implies trust where no trust can be02:21
Keybukand will blame us for having the fence there in the first place02:21
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iwjPersonally I think giving people the expectation that they should be trusting software obtained from URLs is a bad thing.02:22
pittiKeybuk: better than blaming us for getting hacked without even knowing what they had done02:22
iwjSo I suppose I mean that I disapprove of the whole principle of apturl.02:22
Keybukpitti: they'll blame us anyway02:22
pittiKeybuk: I agree02:22
Keybuklook at all of the people who blame windows for being buggy due to the software that they have installed02:22
pittibut at least for the right reason02:22
mvoiwj: the trouble here is that people are used to it (think firefox extensions or tucows and stuff liket his)02:22
Mithrandirpitti: it seems you think the signing of the Packages file implies any guarantee of quality.  I don't think it does, I only think it implies "this is what you intended to download", which a single key is fine for.02:22
iwjThe typical way to deal with these problems is, in the cases where we don't want the user to "just install it dammit" without thinking: make the UI where trust is extended separate, and make it impossible for a website to bring it up.02:23
pittiMithrandir: but contrary to PPAs, uploading to archive.u.c. is restricted to a small number of people which we established trust to02:23
Keybukiwj: so when you click the [Install]  button on the website, what would happen?02:23
iwjFirefox extensions are different because there's at least some kind of quality control by mozilla on the autoinstallation site.02:23
iwjKeybuk: There shouldn't be [Install]  buttons on websites.02:24
Keybukiwj: the autoinstall site is just one site02:24
Keybukanyone can add a firefox installer to their own02:24
iwjKeybuk: Yes, and I think that's EBW too.02:24
Keybukfirefox asks you whether you trust the site02:24
Keybukeveryone clicks Yes without ever reading that dialog02:24
iwjI'm swimming upstream on this one but we're just making a rod for our own backs.02:24
Keybukholy double metaphor!02:24
MacSlowKeybuk, I read them... always...but click "Yes" anyway in the end :)02:24
iwjWhen we're as popular as 'doze, all of our users will be having all of the same problems that 'doze users have now.02:24
Mithrandirpitti: I don't see why that's relevant.  When you add a PPA key to your keyring, you're not saying "plz install everything you can find signed with this key", you're saying "I trust this key to provide packages which are as the author intended them".02:25
Keybuks/author/key holder/02:25
iwjI don't disapprove of things like the codec installation, where an untrusted entity gets to trigger the installation of software which is trusted by us in some sense but happens not to be installed.02:25
MithrandirKeybuk: yes02:25
pittiKeybuk: no, if ther is just a single key for all PPAa02:25
Keybuksigning PPAs doesn't make much sense to me ...02:25
Keybukwe sign the archive so that the software knows that the archive hasn't been tampered with02:26
iwjSigning PPAs is obviously essential, surely ?02:26
Keybuk(ie. versions or packages replaced with others)02:26
Mithrandirsigning PPAs is nice against MITM attacks, or if we ever end up having any kinds of mirrors.02:26
pittiMithrandir: for me it is a difference whether I take all packages from an organization I trust, or all packages from a random person I have never heard of02:26
KeybukPPAs are inherently "provide alternate versions of packages" archives02:26
iwjOtherwise someone who decides they want some PPA (eg, the PPA's own uploaders!) can't even know they're getting the packages they meant.02:26
Mithrandirpitti: I think that by extending your argument, we should use different keys for universe and main?02:26
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Keybukpitti: if you don't trust them, don't add the url? :)02:27
pittiMithrandir: that's something we might consider, yes02:27
iwjHow about we take the extended discussion to email ?  I don't think we're going to get anywhere with all of these issues in this meeting.02:27
Mithrandirpitti: if you think that's sensible, I see your argument, I just disagree with you.02:27
Keybukiwj: agree, we're not coming to any kind of consensus here02:27
iwjIn the meantime we need to make a decision about apturl and I would vote to disable it.02:27
MacSlowiwj, sounds reasonable02:27
Keybuk[VOTE]  disable apturl?02:28
pittiMithrandir: I'm just much less concerned about the main/universe difference than archive.u.c./random PPA02:28
MootBotPlease vote on:  disable apturl?.02:28
Keybuk(use +1 to disable, -1 to keep)02:28
MootBot+1 received from pitti. 1 for, 0 against. Count is now 102:28
MithrandirI think we should take the discussion to UDS, since it's not at all clear we're on common ground here in any way.02:28
MootBot+1 received from iwj. 2 for, 0 against. Count is now 202:28
mvoiwj: you mean the "repostiroy add feature surely", not the general thing to be able to install package from our repositoreis via a click on a website?02:28
MootBot-1 received from Keybuk. 2 for, 1 against. Count is now 102:28
MootBot+1 received from MacSlow. 3 for, 1 against. Count is now 202:28
iwjmvo: Yes, it's OK to be able to add a package from existing repos.02:28
mvook, just wanted to clarify this :)02:28
MootBotFinal result is 3 for, 1 against. Total: 202:28
iwjWe just mean the thing you wanted to disable :-).02:28
iwj[ACTION]  iwj to start conversation on ubuntu-devel about automatic software installation etc.02:29
mvothanks everybody!02:29
Keybukmvo: disable the apt+http form for now, and we'll rediscuss at UDS02:29
iwjHrm, it won't even let me action myself.02:29
Keybuk(so everyone who cares should watch out for it on the schedule and bring foam weaponry)02:29
pittiand asbesto pants02:29
Keybuk[ACTION]  iwj to start conversation on ubuntu-devel about automatic software installation etc.02:29
MootBotACTION received:  iwj to start conversation on ubuntu-devel about automatic software installation etc.02:29
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Keybukiwj: yeah, we've asked for some changes02:29
DarkSun88Hi all.02:30
Keybuk[TOPIC]  buildds don't have debconf accept02:30
MootBotNew Topic:  buildds don't have debconf accept02:30
Riddellsomeone please poke infinity02:30
Riddellhe's not responding to my pokes02:30
Keybukinfinity has wandered off again02:30
Keybukhe hasn't responded to mine or colin's either02:30
pittineither to my mails I sent a few days ago02:30
iwjAre we sure he's OK ?02:31
pittiis he on vac?02:31
MithrandirI was in touch with him yesterday02:31
Keybukin cases where you can't get hold of people for a sustained amount of time, and it's blocking your work, it's ok to ping their team leader instead02:32
DarkSun88@schedule roma02:32
DarkSun88@schedule rome02:32
Riddellwhen I asked on #canonical-sysadmin elmo told me to ping infinity02:33
Keybukping elmo again and he won't :)02:34
Keybukthough you'll have to justify why you wan tthat02:34
Keybukso it's better to start off with a rationale02:34
Riddelljustify why I want the debconf value set?  so my package can build02:35
iwjRiddell: If you get some change made to the way the buildds are set up for building, my autopkgtest will perhaps barf on your packages anyway.  So can you keep me in the loop ?02:35
KeybukRiddell: elmo might not know why the package won't build without it02:36
Keybukhe's not as familiar as infinity02:36
Keybukso an extra paragraph of rationale in the RT ticket can mean that anyone in his team can make the change, because it's obvious why02:36
Keybukwhere if it's just "do X plz" it'll get blocked on one person who might know why X needs to be done02:36
iwjRiddell: Do you think we need to argue it through here, or can it be done by email ?02:36
Mithrandirchanging the chroots is not something most people in the IS team can do, though.02:37
Riddellno, I'll poke elmo more, topic done02:37
KeybukMithrandir: if it became urgent, they could quite easily do it02:37
iwjRiddell: As I say, send rationale to me.02:37
iwj(as well)(02:37
Keybuk(even if it meant giving the tarball to me, or you, etc.)02:37
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Keybukthanks to those of you who sent in 8.04 experience amendments02:39
MacSlowah... I thought my net was flaky02:40
Keybuk(if you haven't done, please mail them by the end of today!)02:40
Keybuksee my 8.04 Planning mail if you're confused as to what I mean02:40
pittiKeybuk: I apologize; release will be done soon, then I'll think about it02:40
Keybukpitti: that's ok :)02:40
Keybukotherwise, do we have any other business?02:40
MithrandirKeybuk: when was that sent out?02:40
pitti24.09.07 16:56 Scott James Remna More 8.04 Planning02:41
Keybukoh, Mithrandir and Riddell - don't worry that you didn't get that one02:41
Mithrandiroh, ok.02:41
MacSlowKeybuk, I've a more fundamental thing I'll send you after this meeting... which is better discussed on the distro or devel list (I left it out of my 8.04 suggestions I sent before)02:41
Keybuksince you're working on mobile and KDE respectively, I'll send different mails to you later :)02:41
KeybukMacSlow: sure, chat to me after the meeting and we'll debate where it should go02:41
MithrandirKeybuk: ok, thanks.02:42
MacSlowKeybuk, ok02:42
KeybukMithrandir: in your case, mdz will probably be asking you for feature plans anyway02:42
MootBotMeeting finished at 13:42.02:42
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mvo_sorry, disconnected02:44
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dendrobates@schedule newyork02:52
dendrobates@schedule new york02:52
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zul@schedule ottawa03:19
zul@schedule montreal03:19
ubotuSchedule for America/Montreal: 27 Sep 08:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 11:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council03:19
juliux@schedule berlin03:20
ubotuSchedule for Europe/Berlin: 27 Sep 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council03:20
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 27 Sep 15:00 UTC: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team
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arualavi@schedule andorra03:54
ubotuSchedule for Europe/Andorra: 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 17:00: Community Development Team03:54
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nixternal@schedule chicago04:23
ubotuSchedule for America/Chicago: 27 Sep 10:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 11:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 07:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 10:00: Community Development Team04:23
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seisen@schedule new york04:27
ubotuSchedule for America/New_York: 27 Sep 11:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team04:27
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kagou@schedule paris04:31
ubotuSchedule for Europe/Paris: 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 17:00: Community Development Team04:31
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makogreetings all04:57
juliuxhi mako04:57
effie_jayxhey mako04:57
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BugMaNhi all04:57
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effie_jayxhey BugMaN04:57
MikeBmorning all04:58
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mhzmorning all04:58
=== nealmcb waves
jonoheya folks04:58
effie_jayxhello all04:59
jonobtw, I am available now to discuss the LoCo Council - I was going to be on a call04:59
Hattoryhi all04:59
totopalmahi :)04:59
=== nixternal waves to everyone
kjcoleGood or Morning.  (Like "Bright and Early", the terms are mutually exclusive.) ;-)04:59
=== bordy waves at nixternal
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dendrobateshey all.05:00
Seveashmpf, bot is broken05:00
BugMaNhi dholbach !05:00
Hobbseehi spam05:00
Hobbseehi everyone05:00
macdHi everyone05:00
kagouhi everyone05:01
peanutbi everyone05:01
=== bordy is scared.
=== pleia2 hugs bordy
=== peanutb just woke up
MikeBsabdfl is not going to be able to make it, unknown about elmo05:01
jsgotangcoi can't stay long, only for an hour - have a plane to catch in 5 hours05:01
dholbachMikeB: I just pined elmo05:01
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MikeBmako was planning to come05:02
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=== peanutb is glad that there happened to be a teacher strike today
bordywho struck a teacher?05:02
yann2effie_jayx > around?05:02
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dholbachMikeB: <mako> greetings all05:02
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effie_jayxyann2,  yep05:02
peanutbas in the teachers arent going to work to prove a point05:02
jonomay I schedule the LoCo Council as the first item? I have a call in 30 mins05:02
OgMacielhowdy jsgotangco05:02
dholbachok, let's get started05:02
makoMikeB: yes, i'm here05:02
mhzjono: +105:02
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MikeBneed new glasses05:03
smurfjono: do it05:03
dholbachjono: your stage, first item on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda05:03
jonook, I would like to propose the creation of a LoCo council05:03
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jonoit inspires heavily from other council governance, so much of it is not all that new05:03
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jonothe LoCo project has grown large enough that it needs some of this governance05:04
jonoand I am keen to not be a bottleneck :)05:04
=== smurf agrees
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nixternalheh, bottledance!05:04
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jononixternal: haha05:04
jonoI would like to get approval today and to then suggest an initial board for the council at the next CC meeting05:05
jonoor for the CC to appoint directly05:05
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jonobut I am keen to get the brightest and best in the loco community on the council05:05
=== dholbach reads up what kind of decisions the LC will make
nixternalthat's actually not a bad idea seeing how large the LoCo's have gotten05:06
OgMacieljono: so this new council would be running part of today's meeting, correct?05:06
jonoOgMaciel: no, the council would have its own meetingsa05:06
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jonoOgMaciel: just like the forums/irc/motu councils05:06
OgMacieljono: meaning, the approvals and etc05:06
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jonoOgMaciel: it could effectively take over loco approvals05:06
jonoOgMaciel: so the CC does not get burdened with them05:07
makojono: what are the single points of failure you are trying to remove?05:07
OgMacieljono: understood... that's what I meant to say too ;)05:07
smurfjono: that's what he meant ;-)05:07
jonomako: me :)05:07
dholbachjono: it seems that loco approvals is not part of the initial proposal yet, right?05:07
jonomako: I am also concious to provide a more objective council with a better knowledge of the community - one that lives in loco land every day05:07
jonoand knows more about the cases05:08
jonodholbach: oh, isnt it?05:08
jsgotangcodo you see an ideal geographical spread of council members?05:08
makothat makes sense05:08
kjcoleI'm not very active in IRC, but speaking as a LoCo leader, I know we'd like to know which channels to go through for various resources.  We've had good support, but don't want to wear out our welcome anywhere.05:08
makojono: so you need to fix the fixme05:08
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jonolet me fix this now05:08
makojono: and you need to come up with a list of members to start with05:08
makobut the document looks great05:08
jonomako: like I say, I was going to suggest the members at the next CC meeting05:08
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jonoI wanted to get the core doc looked over first05:09
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=== mako nods
makoso this looks great and i'm happy to have a loco council.. in fact, i think i suggested it to some loco folks a year go but consensus was that it was better to wait05:09
nixternalmako: that you did05:10
makoso if the loco community feels that they're in a good position to do this, it's thumbs up by me05:10
kjcoleAt the same time, although politically left of center, I like the mantra of "smaller government".  So, be careful not to codify too many layers of bureaucracy into things.05:10
juliuxjono, will be there a realy election for the council members?05:10
MikeBjono, should there be something on geographical diversity for Loco Council member if possible05:10
musashi1as a very activie member and education lead for the colorado loco i think something like this is needed05:10
jonoI just added:05:10
makojuliux: absolutely, that's why i didn't push :)05:10
jono * The LoCo Council will also make decisions about the approval of LoCo teams, providing the primary means of approving teams instead of the Community Council. The Community Council will still retain the ability to approve teams where required though.05:10
jonojuliux: the initial council will be nominated and approved by the CC05:10
MikeBone representative per continental area or something05:10
juliuxjono, why?05:11
jonoMikeB: I think it would make sense to have wide geographical membership on the council where it makes sense05:11
juliuxi think if there is something that is called "loco council" it should be elected by the locos05:11
jonojuliux: that is how previous councils have been formed05:11
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bordysorry to stick my nose in, but should there really be any geographical limitations? What if there are more qualified candidates on one continent than another, for example if australia has 2 awesome members but is limited to one in favor of a necessary member from another continent?05:11
yann2MikeB > that sucks, fuck australia :D05:11
yann2(sorry folks :P)05:11
juliuxjono, sorry but we allways did is this way is no valid reason for me05:11
jonojuliux: and a popularity contest is not the best way of bringng in a council05:12
juliuxjono, if there is no election, who nominates the council?05:12
jonojuliux: we always did it because after much discussion that is the best way to form the basis for a council05:12
smurfbordy: all other things being equal, though, geo diversity makes sense05:12
=== nixternal thinks this last CC was actually nominated by the community with a poll
jonojuliux: I would recommend that I nominate a council based on feedback from key community members, but ultimately, the CC decided and approves05:12
bordysmurf: true05:12
juliuxnixternal, that wasn't an election there was no difference in saying yes or no05:13
dholbachwe just decided something similar for the MOTU Council: the old MC debates over new MC members, which after TB/CC approval are voted for publically05:13
dantalizingit'll be tough getting a geographically diverse council together..not a deal killer, but something to consider05:13
smurfwe need the CC's approval because it's the CC's responsibility *now*, we can't just take over ;-)05:13
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makoi just jono to come up with a good list05:13
jonojuliux: this is about grandfathering in an initial council05:13
yann2jono > make a list of proposed people, and ask the loco-contacts if they agree or have some better people to propose05:13
makoand see no reason to restrict it to proportional representation or by continental area05:13
juliuxyann2, +105:13
jsgotangcoi agree with mako05:13
effie_jayxjono,  why not also have people put their names up and the CC and Jono have a look at people05:13
makothe most important issues is that we have a group of people who are active and involved and who the loco community respects05:13
jonooh of course I will solicit feedback for the proposed list from loco-contacts :)05:13
jonomako: indeed05:14
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jonojuliux: so if I propose a list, get feedback from the loco-contacts list and submit to the CC, would you happy with that?05:14
kjcoleGeodiversity makes sense in that someone will always be awake. ;-)  As long as there's some recognition of differences in government, economy, etc.  One size won't fit all.05:14
juliuxjono, it is better then without any election05:14
yann2jono > a +1 for me05:14
jonook cool05:15
jonoso given the current text of the LoCo Council Proposal and the process I just outlined for getting an initial council board, are the CC happy with this?05:15
makojono: i am05:15
makojono: thanks for bringing this by first05:15
nealmcbjono: I'd suggest asking for feedback before proposing a list05:15
MikeBfine with me05:15
mhzjono: and the LoCo people are also happy, so everyone is hapy now05:16
dholbachI'm happy with it too; I'd maybe just add a note about how the process of loco approval between the CC and LC works out05:16
juliuxjono, i also think it is a good idea to have a locoteams meeting about the loco council05:16
jonodholbach: I added a small bullet point to outline that the LC performs approval but the CC can stiull approve if required05:17
jonojuliux: I agree05:17
jsgotangcoi like the resource planning part though05:17
jonojuliux: I will set up a meeting05:17
jsgotangcoso i am in full support05:17
juliuxjono, thxs05:17
jonoother CC members?05:17
yann2+1 for juliux, would be nice to explain to locos what the council is and what it is for05:17
jonoyann2: indeed :)05:17
dholbachin the MC, we send mails to the TB on membership approval to let them do the final ACK on it05:17
dholbachnot sure if you intend something like this?05:17
yann2well, I got thoughts, i explained them by mail to loco-contacts and by phone, and I think they may get solved :)05:18
jonodholbach: that could be useful05:18
dholbachall the other points are quite clear in the document05:18
yann2so definitely a +1 for the loco council05:18
jonodholbach: so the LC perform analysis of the approval, but the CC finally ACK it05:18
jonodholbach: I think that makes sense05:18
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juliuxi think we need more specs what the taks are for the conucl and what are the responsibilites for the council05:18
dholbachjono: that would be an idea: a short mail with links to the application would suffice, I think - what do other CC members think?05:18
makojono: don't feel held to the text you have05:18
makojono: if folks suggest changes that you think are reasonable, please go ahead05:19
jonomako: will do - I think the most recent suggestion by dholbach makes sense05:19
jonoI will modify that05:19
makoi don't want this tentative approval to do anything to prevent a better structure05:19
jsgotangcoapprovals can be definitely done via email once its available, and that way other council members can give ther opinion (those not present at the moment)05:19
jonohow many more votes do we need to approve?05:19
dholbachI agree05:19
yann2mako > i made propositions on the mailing list for a better structure05:19
makojono: most of quorate meeting05:20
yann2but it  may take some more time to set up05:20
yann2it's a very close but a bit different view of what the LC should be05:20
OgMacieljono: a system like this: http://blogs.gnome.org/ovitters/2007/09/26/sneak-preview-of-mango/ ?05:20
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jonoOgMaciel: I think thats a bit down the line :)05:21
yann2basically I would love to see it have a legal existence, to be able to receive donations, and to have a process to spend the donations to help the locos05:21
dholbachif I counted correctly, mako, dholbach, MikeB and jsgotangco were in favor of it05:21
dholbachI'm not sure if elmo is with us?05:21
jononot sure05:21
jonoand sabdfl is not present05:21
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jonoany CC members not voted?05:21
dholbachmdke and Burgundavia neither05:21
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jsgotangcoheh split05:22
jonoso I guess we have quorum for the attended CC members?05:22
MikeBburgundavia has not05:22
jsgotangcobut i am confident of the votes :)05:22
dholbachMikeB: Burgundavia is not with us, it seems05:23
makoright, i05:24
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makoi'm sure we're fine, but it doesn'a matter for the moment05:24
makothis isn't binding anyway :)05:24
jonook, I will consider this pretty much approved05:24
jonoI will get the last bits sorted, and get a board recommended for the next meeting05:25
makoeveryone here liked it, it will be approved when it's complete05:25
jonothen we will be good to go :)05:25
jonoI thank my CC overlords :)05:25
dholbachthanks jono05:25
jonoright, I am off to do a call - any queries, mail me folks :)05:25
elmosorry, was AFK05:25
dholbachshall we move on to the Florida team for now?05:26
=== bordy ducks
=== johnc4510 is here to cheer on Florida Team Approval Florida Team exemplifiies the Ubuntu Spirit and advocates effectively!! I highly recommned their approval
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=== nixternal chears on Florida!!! GO BORDY!
=== peanutb also cheers for Florida
=== statik is here to support florida
pak33mhooray for Florida and sunshine too05:28
H264I met pak33m... seems like a worthy state :)05:28
bordyH264: be fair, any state with pak33m is a worthwhile place to be05:28
nixternalCC: I can actually say that I am totally impressed by the rapid growth that the Florida team has gone through in the past months. They have taken on quite a bit and ran right through it nicely. Definitely a functional and outstanding LoCo team05:28
dholbachthe wiki pages look very good05:28
bordythanks nixternal05:28
dholbachwhat are the projects in the past you are most proud of? which went best?05:29
nixternaleven though bordy switched back to Gnome from KDE, I still kind of like him and the team :p05:29
dholbachhow long does the team exist now?05:29
bordyTeam started March 3rd I believe. Maybe the 1st.05:29
bordyearly march05:29
jsgotangco"BBS updates"05:29
statikI joined the team in early march and have been surprised to see it grow to 98 members by now05:30
bordyI think I personally am most proud of helping with BarCamp, I helped set it up even though I ended up not going, but we had a strong presence there, with at least one presentation (statik would know better), and definitely got the word out on Ubuntu within the Central Florida corridor05:30
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kjcolenixternal: I think they're a Mickey Mouse operation and a little Goofy. ;-)  (And I don't even know any of them.)05:30
makoyour upcoming events page seems to be quite out of date05:30
MikeBFlorida is a big state, what area are you active and have meetings? how are you expanding to the rest of the state05:30
bordyMako: the person who was doing that left, and we are trying to restructure that05:30
pak33mwe have a just started a projects page as well05:31
bordyMikeB: we are most active in central florida, with tampa/orlando area... have a few outliers in Tallahassee and Miami, but mostly central.05:31
statikI see people active in jacksonville, ft lauderdale, tampa, orlando, and the space coast05:31
statikbecause the state is so distributed it is hard to have in person meetups05:31
bordyit is a very long state05:31
jsgotangcoi can imagine that05:31
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nixternalbordy: global warming will fix that eventually :p05:32
jsgotangcohow did SFD turn out in the area05:33
kjcolebordy, I can sympathize.  (Back when LoCo's were entire countries, I thought the word "local" to be a bit odd.)05:33
bordyjsgotangco: our gainesville members organized something at UF, but had very poor turnout from what I hear05:33
dholbachhow many people show up to your IRC meetings? how do you organise things as a team?05:34
makodholbach: dude! i was SO typing that question05:34
nixternalya, one thing I learned, is never attempt to measure success by turnout....Chicago has seen its poor turnout as well05:34
dholbachmako: sorry for that :)05:34
DoctorMOIt's dificult to include people from an entire state, even smaller ones like MA. we've taken to holding a once every 3 month meeting in central MA just for this problem05:34
statikthe irc channel is pretty active all week, from 10-20 users normally05:35
bordydholbach: our IRC meetings usually around 25ish, pak33m runs the meetings (because he's the hammer)05:35
makosounds great05:35
bordymeetings pull in some of the other active members who tend not to idle with us05:35
statikI always skip the weekly meetings, but we get a lot of people on IRC during the week asking questions and getting assistance05:35
makowell i'd love to see more attempts at the IRL projects05:35
makobecause they are very effective and help build community05:35
makoeven if not all in the past have been successful05:35
makobut i'm thrilled with the online communit you've built and am happy with a +105:35
makoyou should clean up the vents page.. even blank it05:36
makoit looks real05:36
jsgotangcodude, they have a BBS!05:36
makoout of date :)05:36
bordymako: thinking about dropping it altogether05:36
nixternalno way05:36
bordyoh yeah a bbs05:36
bordyone of our youngins made it for us05:36
makobordy: that's better than keeping it out of date like that05:36
DoctorMOwhatis BBS?05:36
makobordy: it makes you look inactive05:36
statikmako: one of the brevard members is planning an in person meeting after the gutsy release, presenting to a couple of other user groups05:36
bordymako: indeed. I think there are better ways of organizing it anyway05:36
kjcoleDoctorMO: Bulletin Board System05:37
macogwi'm with DoctorMO....what's...oh ok05:37
macogwkjcole: you type too fast05:37
nixternalthat is funny, a youngin made a BBS....05:37
statikit's not a real BBS, it's just a server with SSH enabled05:37
=== nixternal reflects the BBS days now
=== macd hugs vbbs
jsgotangcoyeah i just looked at the forum pages05:37
statikbut it's neat that he set it up despite being so young05:37
bordyhe teaches me stuff. I'm not ashamed. lol05:38
dholbachhow do you think your POA is coming along?05:38
nixternalya, usually BBS's today are created by old people :p05:38
jelkneris there a scheduled time for the membership approval part of this meeting?05:38
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dholbachwhat kind of activity are most people involved in?05:38
jelkneri fear i'll need to leave before it starts05:38
dholbachjelkner: this is the last agenda point before we do membership approval05:38
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dholbachjelkner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda05:38
macogwjelkner: got a class to teach?05:39
bordydholbach I think its coming along nicely, we are getting more organized, more directed, and the subteam leaders are really coming through for us05:39
statikdholbach: I'd guess most folks are doing advocacy stuff, I'm trying to learn more about packaging (got several in-process right now)05:39
dholbachstatik: that's great to hear - if you have questions or can get people interested in MOTU, let me know05:40
dholbachI'm happy with +1 too, seems some healthy action and good structure in the team05:40
bordydholbach: once I learn something at all I would love to learn about packaging05:40
statikdholbach: will do, thanks for the help in #ubuntu-motu so far.05:40
dholbachstatik: de rien :)05:40
dholbachbordy: rock on, let me know when you want to get started on that05:40
dholbachMikeB, jsgotangco: any more questions?05:41
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MikeBdholbach: none here05:41
jsgotangcoi'm fine, giving my +1, please just update some of your pages (Events, etc)05:41
bordyyeah that events page might be sayin bye bye05:41
dholbachit might be worth looking into: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting05:42
jsgotangcoits alright to start virtual teams for now for such a big state05:42
makoi turn into a pumpkin in 45 minutes, so lets get through as much as we can :)05:42
MikeB+1 here also05:42
dholbachcongratulations florida!05:42
makoare we waiting on anyone?05:42
=== johnc4510 w00t congrats to the Florida Team nice job!!
jsgotangcowhat really needs to be nurtured is the activities that you guys take part of, even tough not as a big group05:42
pak33mdholbach: i will be looking at the reporting page and reporting in general for Florida05:42
dholbachpak33m: great :)05:42
bordyjsgotangco: we're trying to branch, not getting too much interaction with local lugs, but we'll get there.05:43
nixternalj1mc isn't around, so you can skip him05:43
dholbachok, let's move on; I think jelkner has to leave in a bit; shall we get him first?05:43
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dholbachjelkner: your stage05:43
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dholbachit's been quite a while since we met in Sydney - what happened since then? :)05:44
elmo(that was to the florida team, sorry - tho it may be moot)05:44
jelknerdholbach: my stage?05:44
dholbachfor membership approval?05:44
dholbachI thought you had to leave soon05:44
macogwjelkner: your turn at membership approval because you need to go teach soon05:44
jelknerwhat would you like to know?05:44
jelkneri do05:44
jelknerhow does this work05:44
jelknerare you asking what i've done lately?05:45
Joe_CoTjelker: briefly explain who you are, what you've done, then link to your application05:45
jelkneri'm a high school cs teacher05:45
jelknerin arlington va05:45
jelkneri've setup edubuntu and ubuntu labs throughout the dc metro area05:46
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dholbacha shame none of the Edubuntu folks are here05:46
makoit is a shame05:47
jelkneri've taught hundreds of cs students using ubuntu05:47
=== musashi1 pays some attention to the edubuntu lists
jelkneri'm a founding member of the dc loco05:47
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dholbachthat sounds great, do you still dress as santa claus with flint_? :)05:47
jsgotangcojelker, its been a while since we did that original BoF in Sydney for Edubuntu, how do you feel about the project 2 years after :)05:48
jelkneronly flint can be credited with that ;-)05:48
kjcolejelkner's just an oversized elf.05:48
jsgotangcoand what do you plan on int as well :)05:48
nixternaljelkner: I will join your loco in a few months, cool? I am moving back out to DC in the spring it looks like05:48
jelkneredubuntu gets better with each release05:48
jelkneri'm now using the share desktop features at one of the schools05:48
Specnixternal, awesome!05:48
=== musashi1 is itching to put gutsy in his edubuntu lab
jelkneranything else?05:49
jsgotangcoas part of the DC loco, what activities have you been part of, and planning to, with regards to your affiliation with ubuntu?05:49
musashi1as a teacher myself, i think we need more teachers advocating for ubuntu and open source in general.05:50
jelknersoftware freedom day for the last 3 years05:50
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jelknertable at the takoma park folk festival05:50
=== mhz has known jelkner for quite some long, esp. since his help on Edubuntu (more than a year ago, IIRC).
dholbachthat sounds great05:50
jelkner(where general awareness of and enthusiasm for ubuntu was *really* high)05:50
nixternalman, this membership process is making me reminisce big time05:51
jelknerour loco is very active05:51
dholbachMikeB, jsgotangco, mako: any more questions?05:51
kjcolejelkner helped draft me as the DC LoCo team leader.  I tried to get a deferral but it didn't work. ;-)05:51
jelknerwe are all friends at this point and do a lot of things together05:51
makoi've been familiar wiht jelkner's work for a long time05:51
=== DoctorMO isn't a member and his LoCo is rouge right now
jelknertomorrow Spec turns 2105:51
jelknerso we are taking him out for beer!05:52
Specno, that was the 25th05:52
makoin any case, i'm happy with a +1 for jelkner05:52
macogwjelkner: he turned 21 two days ago!05:52
MikeBdholbach: none here, definite +105:52
kjcolehe's been instrumental in organizing transportation, rallying students and others, providing meeting space, etc.05:52
dholbach+1 from me, good work05:52
Specjust i'm busy w/ school/work until then05:52
mhzSpec: then at least 1 beer per day missing :)05:52
jsgotangcoI am fine, I believe jelkner as an ubuntu member has been long overdue, +1, I've been aware of his activities ever since05:52
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dholbachso that 4 +1, elmo?05:53
Specso whose votes count, current members or just those on the council?05:53
jsgotangco"rallying students"05:53
mhzSpec: councils05:53
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=== nealmcb hopes we go in order for the rest
dholbachmako, MikeB, jsgotangco, elmo: I'll be away for just a few minutes in the mobile meeting, which starts in 5, just to let you know05:54
makoSpec: just the council05:54
macogwmako: you're late :P05:54
dholbachok, let's move on then, we're good with +4 already?05:54
makodholbach: just a few?05:54
makoyes, lets move on05:55
jelkneri apologize for going out of order05:55
dholbachmako: yes, one agenda item05:55
jelknerthe problem for me (and mattva01 too)05:55
jelkneris that we are in a school setting05:55
mhzjelkner: \o/  congrats!05:55
jelknerbell will ring we need to leave05:55
macogwmattva01 is his student05:55
jsgotangcoi have to go too in a while, i have a plane to catch in 4 hours but i can still sit on 3 memberships05:55
H264 |05:55
bordygrats jelkner!05:55
jsgotangcojelkner: congrats, btw, what happened to colin applegate05:55
dholbachj1mc seems not to be here. peanutb?05:55
kjcolejelkner and mattva01 are playing hookey, and on school grounds, which sort of defeats the purpose.05:55
peanutbe can read it beforehand. Come well prepared, otherwise the meetings will take too much time.05:56
peanutbe can read it beforehand. Come well prepared, otherwise the meetings will take too much time.05:56
peanutbim trying to copy/paste my speach05:56
jelknerjsgotangco: still around, but not active05:56
peanutbHello, My name is Paul. I am also known as peanutb or Peanut butter. I have been using Linux since Suse 9.0 and Ubuntu since Hory. Last year I joined the Ubuntu PNW team and I have helped plan all of the major events in Washington and some of the events in Oregon. I am currently trying to get the Ubuntu Washington loco up and kicking, and have also helped05:56
peanutbrevive the local lug GSLUG. I have been the webmaster of http://pnw.ubuntu-us.org for a while now, and I am also a moderator on the mailing list. I have helped many people on ubuntu forums, #ubuntu, and over the 6 months or so. My wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulBartell . I was featured in an article in the Seattle PI last april, commenting05:56
peanutbon the Dell Ubuntu deal.. See my wiki page for a link. I apologise for the semi-out-datedness of my wikipage, as i wasent planning on showing up. An unexpected teacher strike changed that.05:56
jsgotangcopeanutb: FTW :)05:57
Specwere you at ubuntu-live?05:57
peanutbno. i was in europe05:57
peanutbI wanted to be though05:57
=== nixternal cheers on peanutb! especially with his stripper name "Peanut Butter"
H264I drove 7 hours just to meet him at an event in Washington05:58
makopeanutb: i like the article in the pi :)05:58
H264ok, well maybe not *Just* to meet him05:58
peanutbmako, thanks05:58
dholbachpeanutb: what did you like doing best in Ubuntu? which of your contributions are you proud of?05:58
nixternalCC: peanutb is a pretty big part of the US LoCo team scene and is a great assett, so I am throwing in my support for his membership!05:59
peanutbI am most proud of the Linux Fest northwest ubuntu booth05:59
nixternalstrip that t will ya05:59
makopeanutb: great wiki page, also creative05:59
makoyou seem to have been extremely active and passionate05:59
kjcoleI dunno... I expected so much more from a 14-year-old. ;-)05:59
makopeanutb: any plans for the future with ubuntu and your project?05:59
H264peanutb: yeah the linux fest northwest way way fun :)05:59
dholbachaway for a just few minutes now06:00
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peanutbI guess Continue spreading ubuntu and work twords becoming a MOTU06:00
dholbachpeanutb: great, let me know how that goes06:00
peanutbwill do.06:00
dholbachpeanutb: seems you have been working on some specs too?06:00
peanutbnot really.06:00
dholbachoh, you mentioned some on your wiki page06:01
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makoi don't need to spend any more time, i'm happy with a +106:02
makogood work, well documented06:02
MikeB+1 for mw06:02
jsgotangco+1 from mine too06:02
dholbach+1 from me too06:02
=== dantalizing is now known as dantalizing_away
peanutbThanks everyone06:02
bordyhooray for peanutb!06:03
H264WooHoo for peanutb :D06:03
=== peanutb does a victory dance
mayecocan I go?06:03
nealmcbI"m ready06:03
kjcoleCongrats peanutb06:03
jsgotangcoi have to go after nealmcb06:03
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nealmcbHi, I'm Neal McBurnett.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NealMcBurnett   I've been an Ubuntu user, promoter, contributor and distributor since the first release in 2004, on servers and desktops, for myself and several non-profit organizations. I've been active with *nix since 1977 (at Bell Labs) and have never had Windoze on my desktop :-)06:04
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nealmcbI've been active in the Colorado LoCo, having helped Joey start it in 2006.  I organized a little Ubucon at Google in Boulder last June and helped out with a Colorado education conference where Jim Hutchinson et al. presented an Ubuntu demo: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/TIEColorado.  I've edited a bunch of wiki pages, authored the identity-selector spec and commented on others.  Some examples are linked to from my wiki page.06:04
nealmcbI'm now working on another local Ubucon this fall, and  continuing to get my feet wet with code contributions via bzr in Launchpad. I'd like to also use my enterprise Linux/Solaris experience from Internet2 and Bell Labs to contribute to the NetworkAuthentication efforts.06:04
sorenI just have to say that we're very happy to have nealmcb working with us on the Server Team. He gets two thumbs  up from me.06:04
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nealmcbI'm not the biggest or fastest contributor, but I try to provide a broad perspective when I do contribute, and help bring Ubuntu together with other local user groups.  For lots more than you wanted, see also my home page - http://mcburnett.org/neal/06:05
nealmcbthat's all I'll paste06:05
nealmcbthanks, soren!!06:05
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H264woah, no windows... :)06:05
dholbachnealmcb: do you plan to become a MOTU too? :-)06:05
=== musashi1 cheers for nealmcb
musashi1he has done a lot to help the colorado team06:05
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nealmcbdholbach: If I can find time I'll do some packaging - I tested ppas06:06
jsgotangconice comeback wiki page!06:06
musashi1ubucon, help at the tie conference, helping organize meetings and events, etc06:06
makonealmcb: how did ubucon-boulder go?06:06
nealmcbbut I don't find lots of spare time in my life :-)06:06
dholbachnealmcb: nice06:06
nealmcbmako: it was small (15 or so) but we got press in LWN about it, and had a good time and shared lots of cool stuff06:07
=== musashi1 attended ubucon and thought it was great. even if i didn't understand it all :)
nealmcbWe didn't have much time since we planned it to precede the TIES conf.  next one will be bigger.06:07
nealmcbgoogle is moving to a bigger office in boulder :-)06:08
musashi1and maybe google won't forget the shirts next time :)06:08
jsgotangcoanything more for nealmcb?06:10
nealmcbjsgotangco: you want me to say more? or asking for questions?06:10
dholbachI'm happy with the testimonials of everybody, I'm happy to +106:10
jsgotangcoquestions :)06:10
makoyes, i'm happy to +1 as well06:10
makoit's really come together06:11
jsgotangco+1 as well06:11
MikeB+1 for me06:11
makogood documentation and a nice long-term committment06:11
=== nealmcb jumps for joy
nealmcbmako: yeah - long-term committment you've got from me :-)06:11
bordyhooray nealmcb!06:11
=== peanutb congratulated nealmcb
dantalizingwtg nealmcb06:11
nealmcbthanks all!!06:11
nixternalhrmm, congrats nealmcb...I would have given a cheer, but the meeting moved to quickly it seems and I missed it by blinking06:11
=== bordy cowers
jsgotangcoi'm happy to see smeone getting involved in the server stuff too06:11
nealmcbnixternal: :-)06:11
dendrobatesnealmcb: congrats!06:11
kjcolenealmcb welcome aboard06:12
jsgotangcoi have to exit now, thanks everyone and congratulations to those approved and goodluck to the rest06:12
nixternallater jsgotangco06:13
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=== nealmcb 's grin gets bigger - thanks again
=== mattva01 has to leave at 12:30 ... class
mattva01gratz neal06:13
sacaterCongrats to peanutb06:14
kjcole(mattva01 is also applying for membership, in case that wasn't clear.)06:14
nixternalCC: I need to roll, but before I go, I am cheering on bordy and OgMaciel(ummm, thought you were a member, silly me I guess)06:14
dholbachbordy seems to be up next on the agenda?06:14
OgMacielnixternal: renewing06:14
nixternalooh, I will stick around for this06:14
MikeBdholbach and mako, how long do you have06:14
nixternalOgMaciel: ahhh....I was like wth is going on :)06:14
bordyIf mattva01 has to leave, I wouldnt mind waiting for him06:14
dholbachI still have some time left06:15
macogwnixternal: until i found out otherwise on SFD, i thought jelkner was already one as well06:15
OgMacielnixternal: but thanks for the support :)06:15
dholbachelmo: are you still there or busy?06:15
dholbachmattva01: your stage06:15
mattva01I'm Matthew Gallagher, I work with Jeff Elkner to admininster the ubuntu computers he mentioned previously.I'm very active in the DC LoCo team, but my main role at the moment is just publicity06:15
nixternalwhat happened with bordy?06:16
mattva01My goal is to eventually become a MOTU.06:16
bordynixternal: wanted mattva01 to get his say in before me, he has to leave06:16
nixternalahh, gotcha06:16
kjcole(mattva01's page is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MatthewGallagher)06:16
Speci can attest mattva01 spends available time supporting/promoting ubuntu06:17
jelknermatt has become a great help as a package builder06:17
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dholbachmattva01: how's the packaging coming along? you packaged python-pygame?06:17
makoMikeB: another 10m06:18
dholbachah no, python-gasp it is06:18
mattva01no , I  have packaged python-gasp and schooltool-cando ( which are not in repos yet)06:18
dholbachmattva01: when do you plan to propose them for inclusion in ubuntu?06:18
kjcoleIn addition to doing the LoCo stuff, mattva01's helped revive the YHSLUG, and he helped out with the forensics re the recent issue with our server in August.06:18
Specand you're an LP beta tester as well, yes?06:18
mattva01hardy heron06:19
dholbachmattva01: be sure to let me know how that goes06:19
dholbachthose packages sound useful06:19
Specand are currently testing ppa, right?06:19
mattva01yes I am06:19
jelkneri use matt's ppa for gasp06:19
jelkner(graphics api for students of python)06:20
mattva01still confused about a couple things, but I like the system06:20
mattva01for ppa I mean06:20
makomattva01: your wikipage is a little bit thin06:20
mattva01I can work on it06:21
makoright, not bad06:21
kjcolemako: He's not a big talker. ;-)06:21
kjcolemore of a do-er.06:22
mattva01Well, most of the things I have done with Jeff06:22
=== mako nods
makoyou have great testimonials from a variety of people06:22
makoso i'm happy with a +106:22
makobut you should spend more time updating your wiki page to help document that contribution06:23
makocall it a condition :)06:23
MikeB+1 here06:23
mattva01yep, will do :)06:23
dholbach+1 from me too06:23
kjcolemako: I'm guilty of the same, I fear.06:23
makobetter than having a great wiki page and doing nothing, i suppose :)06:24
=== nealmcb nods
dholbachok, great - shall we move on?06:24
=== bordy bounces
kjcolebordy: Down boy.  Good doggie.06:25
dholbachcongratulations mattva01, bordy: your stage06:25
=== johnc4510 w00t for bordy, one of the best. Active with the Florida Team and an advocate of Ubuntu. Follows the C of C and would be a great addition to Ubuntu Membership!!
bordyalright i have a couple small paragraphs... bear with me plz06:25
bordyHello all, my name is Chris Rohde, and I am a 25 year old junior accountant and full-time student at University of South Florida. I have only been using Ubuntu since Dapper, but fell in love with it as soon as I started using it, and made it my personal mission to help others see the light that is Ubuntu.06:26
=== statik is here to support bordy
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bordyI started the Ubuntu Florida LoCo Team in March 07, and since have spent all my time working on spreading and improving that team and its influence within Florida, as well as learning as much as the team members would teach me about Ubuntu. As I was never the most technically proficient user in the world and depended heavily on community documentation as well as support from the Florida Team to get anything done, I have tried to pass on what I kno06:26
bordyI helped plan Orlando's first BarCamp, even though I was ultimately unable to attend (my stupid father in law wanted to turn 50 that day), and right now we are planning Gutsy release parties in Florida, and I mean to see to it that a few more Florida members are here in front of you in the next few months, as there are some outstanding people in there.06:26
bordyHere is my wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisRohde06:26
bordyand here is my application/testimonials page: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisRohde/Accomplishments06:26
bordythere we go06:26
dholbach"... pass on what I kn" <- something was truncated06:26
nixternalbordy: tell them how you really started :)06:27
=== pak33m cheering for bordy
bordyAlright fine, I started begging Nixternal for help06:27
pak33mbeg he does06:27
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bordyBut I am almost (almost) self-sufficient now. Only ask the complicated questions now06:27
makook, i'm about to disappear06:27
=== nixternal definitely gives a huge thumbs up to bordy for president...err I mean membership
makothis will be my last one for the day06:27
=== Burgundavia appears
nixternalman, talk about perfect timing06:28
makojust in time to replace the rapidly disappearing mako06:28
dholbachwhat's the 'ubuntu diy team'?06:28
dantalizingbordys done a lot to get the fl loco going06:28
=== mako highfives Burgundavia
makotag, you're in06:28
nixternaltag team!06:28
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bordydholbach: I havent actually heard anything from it in a while, I believe I was working with funnylookinhat, but truthfully been too busy to chase after it recently06:28
dholbachok, because you listed it in your application06:29
nixternaldholbach: diy is a marketing team project that just provides a bunch of stuff to the do it yourself advocators06:29
dholbachah ok06:29
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Burgundaviathere was also an attempt to create a webpage to post marketing projects to06:29
=== nixternal needs to upload some presentations to it yet
makogreat, talk to you later06:29
dholbachyou're in the screenshots team too?06:29
makomail me if there are any open questions06:29
dholbachsee you mako06:30
Specsee ya, mako06:30
bordyvaya con dios mako06:30
macogwoh bye mako06:31
dholbachbordy: what do you want to work on in the next months? what would you like to see happening in the Ubuntu world?06:31
bordydholbach: I have never been the most technical of people, I am trying to learn python and ruby right now, trying to learn by doing with some scripts and trying to understand bots. In the next few months I am going to try to work on getting Florida Team's subteams more self-sufficient, and then increase cooperation between them to delegate responsibility06:33
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bordyAlso, (and this is in *very* beginning stages) I am working with crane and boredandblogging (of AL and GA, respectively) to try to set up some sort of linuxfest SouthEast... but thats a gigantic undertaking, and will most likely be a year or more in the works06:33
dholbachthat sounds great06:33
dholbachBurgundavia, MikeB: any more questions?06:34
bordyideally, I want to learn some programming because I would like to see an increase in proper accounting software for ubuntu so I can more easily convince small businesses of its worth06:34
Burgundavianot from me06:34
bordybecause, speaking as an accountant, the current programs dont really cut it :(06:34
MikeBdholbach: none here +1 for me06:34
nixternaltrue dat06:34
seisenbordy we need to talk some time about accounting06:34
Burgundavia+1 from me06:34
dholbach+1 from me too, great work, good testimonials06:34
bordyseisen: will do, lookin forward to it06:35
=== nealmcb appreciates bordy's offers of accounting help to small groups like locos (if we ever need to go down that perilous path) :-)
dholbachcongratulations bordy06:35
=== johnc4510 w00t congrats bordy
dholbachdendrobates: you here?06:35
bordyWoohoo! thanks guys!06:35
nixternalcongrats bordy! I feel like I have accomplished something today06:35
bluekujacongrats bordy06:35
=== nixternal goes out shopping before heading out of town
seisenthat would be a project i would be interested in nealmcb06:35
bluekujacya nixternal06:35
=== dendrobates yea my turn!
dantalizingcongrats bordy!06:36
pak33mgood job bordy!!06:36
macdcould I get on the stage sometime in the next 45mins?06:36
nealmcbbordy: congrats!!06:36
dendrobatesHi I'm Rick Clark.  I work for Canonical as the manager of the Ubuntu server team.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/dendrobates  I'm fairly new to Ubuntu, but I am a long time Linux user.  Currently my main community focus is growing the Server community particularly with people that work in corporate environments.  I am as acitve as I can be in the Georgia US Loco, I can't always attend the IRC meetings, but I make an06:36
dendrobateseffort to attend any face to face meetings.06:36
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dendrobatesMany of the things I work on are currently not public, but UDS planning, Hardy planning take up a large part of my time these days.  My most recent sucess was getting re worked libpam-ldap and lib-nss-ldap packages in main, as well as ldap-auth-config and ldap-auth-client, which I created.06:36
dholbachHow's the ubuntu server community shaping up?06:37
=== mathiaz cheers at dendrobates excellent work on getting ldap well supported in ubuntu.
dendrobatesIt is starting to look better06:37
dendrobateswe have a few good active people like nealmcb.06:38
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dendrobatesIt is more challenging to attract people with the right knowledge to the server team.06:38
dholbachWhat could new contributors do in the server team?06:38
=== statik is curious what kind of help the server team needs
=== nealmcb cheers for dendrobates service to the server team
dendrobateswe need testers badly06:39
kjcolemake nice to the man with the inside track on things. ;-)06:40
dendrobatespeople who have access to server grase hardware.06:40
sorenI'm going to dinner, so I'll just throw in my two thumbs up for dendrobates as well. He's going a great job in managing the server team, and I trust he'll be a critical part of making Ubuntu Server rock even harder.06:40
dendrobatessoren: thanks and cheers06:41
mralphabetdendrobates: Or hardware companies providing server grade hardware to test on for the server team ;)06:41
dholbachMikeB, Burgundavia: any more questions from you?06:41
dendrobatesmralphabet: that is correct, but we charge for that, so it is tricky.06:41
mralphabetdendrobates: ahh06:41
Burgundaviathe server team has been rocking, thanks dendrobates +1 from me06:41
nealmcbdendrobates: canonical charges for it?06:41
statikdendrobates: what qualifies as server grade hardware for the type of testing you need? currently the only thing listed on the testing page is AppArmor06:41
MikeBdholbach: +1 here06:42
dendrobateswe want things to work, and then we want hw mfgs to pay us to certify06:42
macddendrobates, you should contact me later, we have labs full of newer dell server (upto blades too) we can test with06:42
dendrobatesmacd: I will, thanks.06:42
statikdendrobates: actually, I can ask you later, don't want to get too offtopic06:42
dholbach+1 from me too; I met dendrobates personally, know how dedicated he is and know that he does good work06:42
mralphabetSorry, didn't mean to muddy the waters06:43
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dholbachrock on06:44
dholbachcongratulations dendrobates06:45
dholbachdeadwill does not seem to be around06:45
=== dendrobates woo hoo!
dendrobatesthanks guys.06:45
dholbachviridari neither06:45
jelknerplease excuse my out of turn comment here yet again, but i need to vouch for macogw before i go06:45
=== macd is here!
dholbachdemrit neither06:45
jelkneri have to sign off06:45
dholbachpaulliu neither06:45
DktrKranzDear CC members, I have to leave now. I left my cheers for totopalma, Hattory and BugMan in their wiki pages, I hope you will take this into account. Thank you.06:45
dendrobatesPlease go to the wiki and help the server team out06:45
jelknermacogw has been a great contributor to our loco06:45
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dholbachseisen: you're here - your stage :)06:46
seisenMy name is Michael Price and I am a college student majoring in Accounting. I am a member of the Beginner's Team, Ubuntu Wiki Team and the Ohio Loco Team among other teams . I am very active on the Ubuntu Forums and I have helped cleaned up the wiki pages and created a few new pages on the Wiki.  I am also look at starting a FreeGeek where I live at since we don't have anything like that near me and I planned on using Ubuntu as06:46
seisenthe OS.06:46
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seisenwhat did I do scare people away06:46
seisenalmost forgot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Seisen06:47
dholbachwhat kind of documentation do you like writing?06:47
macogwseisen: jelkner had to go teach a class, it wasnt you :)06:47
seiseni was just joking06:47
seisenThe ones I wrote where for printers it doesn't matter really06:48
dholbachwow, that looks like quite an amount of work you put into the wiki06:48
dholbachI saw you are hanging out in the doc team channel - are you working with the doc team too?06:48
seisenyes and there is still a whole bunch left06:48
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seisenI am going to try help with the documentation with the next release06:49
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Belutzam I too late?06:49
dholbachseisen: what are the biggest challenges, when cleaning up docs?06:49
OgMacieldo I have 30 minutes before I'm up?06:50
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OgMacielor 406:51
macogwOgMaciel: depends if everyone's here06:51
seisentrying to find links for outdated pages06:51
dholbachI will have to go in like half an hour06:51
macogwOgMaciel: a bunch of people were just *poof*06:51
dholbachI hope mdke turns up before that06:51
BurgundaviaI have to go in about 10 minutes, off to class06:52
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dholbachI'm pretty happy with seisen's contributions; it would be nice to see you working more closely with the doc team, but that's on your agenda, so that's cool06:53
dholbachBurgundavia, MikeB, elmo?06:53
elmosorry, two secs to catch up06:54
Burgundavia+1 from me. More doc contributors are always good06:54
elmo(beta is a bad day for CC meetings for me ...)06:54
MikeB+1  here, great work on docs06:54
dholbach+1 fomr me too06:54
dholbachelmo: I can imagine06:54
MikeBelmo: I will remember that in the future:)06:54
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bluekujaheya ScottK06:55
dholbachmacogw: your turn06:55
bluekujagrats seisen06:55
macogwI'm Mackenzie Morgan, and I've been using Ubuntu for a year.  One of my friends suggested Ubuntu when I said I was thinking about Mandriva.  For 3/4 of the year, I'm a member of the DC LoCo and help with the events here, like Software Freedom Day and Takoma Park.  I also help with installfests as a board member of my school's chapter of the ACM, and with demo-ing FOSS with the school's OSI chapter.  The other 1/4 of the year, I'm home in Pittsb06:55
macogwurgh where I defenstrate my family's and friends' computers.  I have a blog where I post news about Linux & FOSS and tips & tricks for making Ubuntu (and often Linux in general) do different things, http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com (long URL, I know) and a Google Calendar where I put big events in the FOSS world (like UDS, release dates, etc).  My wiki page can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MacoMorgan06:55
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kjcolejelkner's already listed his support for macogw (scroll back to before he split).06:57
macogwoh well spec has lovely timing06:57
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kjcoleMy turn.  I ment macogw last year and since then she's been very visible online and at events.06:58
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elmoI like the pwgen-inspired AIM handle06:58
kjcoleShe's one providing for providing answers to all.06:59
BurgundaviaI have to run, but based on the recommendations and a quick scan of her page/blog, +1 from me06:59
macogwit's inspired by my lyrics from my favorite band (AFI), elmo06:59
elmomacogw: ah, fair enough, was just kidding07:00
kjcoleShe was one of our four tablers for the two SFD events we had.07:00
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macogwthere's a photo of us all tabling on the most recent post on my blog07:00
macogwi shouldve told jeff that07:00
kjcolespec, nice timeing on the split. ;-)  Speak up man.07:00
macogwSpec: it's my turn and you timed out as soon as they called my name07:01
kjcolespec, macogw's up.07:01
Speci fully support maco's induction to ubuntu membership07:01
dholbachsounds great, what part do you like best about the forums?07:02
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macogwdholbach: they're a great resource for "works for me" advice...very useful when in "why doesnt it work?!?" mode07:02
Specextremely helpful helping out local ubuntu users and helping w/ our LoCo07:02
dholbachwhich sections do you spend most time on?07:02
macogwCommunity Cafe and Absolute Beginners07:03
dholbachwhat are your plans for the next months? what would you like to see happening in the ubuntu world?07:03
macogwsometimes i go through absolute beginners and try to get debugging info out of the 0-replies threads to boost them along07:03
MikeBI see macogw on the forums, she does get work07:04
macogwWell, next month I intend to help DC LoCo with an installfest and I'm in the process of helping plan the post-Gutsy-release installfest for my school07:04
pleia2macogw has been active in the #ubuntu-pennsylvania - we're getting the pittsburgh end of the state going but based on what I've seen I have no doubt she'll be a valuable help to the project once we do :)07:04
dholbachnice... that's all from me; I'm happy to give +1 based on all the good feedback07:04
kjcoledholbach: There's an effort to start up a "Free Software for Non-Geeks" class in the area, and I believe macogw's on board for that as one of the teachers.07:05
dholbachMikeB, elmo?07:05
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kjcoleOuch.  What timing you two have. ;-)07:06
macogwsorry, school's wifi is rather bad07:06
macogwpleia2 just filled me in on what i missed07:07
dholbachcongratulations macogw07:08
dholbachI think we're short of CC members now07:08
dholbachwith just MikeB, elmo and me around07:08
kjcoleDo CC members mail in votes late after skimming the logs?07:08
dholbachit seems we have to handle all the other applications next time.07:08
Specquick, make me a CC member *innocent*07:09
=== macogw pokes Spec
dholbachkjcole: I think we approved all the member applications we got around to this time07:09
kjcoleSo, did macogw make it or not?07:09
ScottKmacogw: Just saying Hi since I live in the DC area and your wiki pages asks people to...07:10
elmoI'm happy for us to proceed with just us 3, if you 2 want to and are happy to07:10
macddo people who didnt get on the block need todo anything or just wait till the next time? (i.e. need to add back to the wiki?)07:10
dholbachkjcole: yes, 4 +107:10
macogwScottK: oh ok hello :)07:10
elmowe were doing it with just me + Mark last time, so this would be better than that ;-)07:10
dholbachelmo: I'll need to leave in a bit too07:10
elmo(at least numerically)07:10
macogwScottK: we're meeting on friday if you'd like to come.  Spec's 21st birthday and all that07:10
kjcoledholbach: Oops.  Sorry.  Missed the congrats line.  I see it now.07:10
ScottKmacogw: Sorry, I'll be out of town.07:10
macogwScottK: oh ok.  well there's an installfest in the works, so maybe you can come see us all then07:11
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dholbachOk... I'll make sure we get the next CC meeting announced ASAP, will mail the members tomorrow07:11
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MikeBdholbach: thanks07:11
=== OgMaciel heads to the microwave oven
macogwOgMaciel: yes, do break for lunch.  you have to wait until the next meeting because too many CC members popped out07:11
elmosorry about the people we didn't get to :(07:11
ScottKmacogw: Only if I get to install Kubuntu ;-)07:11
macdjust more time to keep on doing what were doing :)07:12
OgMacielmacogw: no worries... I'm only trying to renew :)07:12
dholbachhave a nice day everybody07:12
OgMaciellater dholbach07:12
bluekujadholbach: you too daniel07:12
kagoulater dholbach07:12
elmoOgMaciel: you should be able to just renew yourself?07:12
MikeBlater all07:12
macogwScottK: if you're willing to burn the necessary cds07:13
OgMacielelmo: not sure... figured I'd give you guys the chance to ask me questions again  ;)07:13
seisenlater everybody07:13
pochuOgMaciel: lol :)07:13
macdtake it easy people, maybe next meeting you'll get to interrogate me07:13
Belutzelmo, was there a discussion about loco council in this meeting?07:13
OgMacielpochu: :)07:13
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macogwwell i should go to my internship so i can play with python and get annoyed at the government for not using proper XHTML and making it hard to parse the Supreme Court's website07:13
elmoBelutz: yep, you can check the logs in /topic07:13
Belutzelmo, ok thanks :)07:14
pochuOgMaciel: can I deactivate myself to be interrogated too? ;)07:14
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OgMacielpochu: hehehehe07:14
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Specyeap...i need to study for test :/07:14
dfilonihave a nice day men07:14
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OgMacielwell, I better go before it's too late07:14
kjcoleI gotta make up two hours of lost time as well.07:14
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Speccongrats, macogw07:14
OgMaciellater guys07:14
BugMaNhave a nice day, bye07:14
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macogwSpec: thanks *hug* (no kissing in public, remember?)07:15
kjcolebye stepmom. ;-)07:15
macogwbye stepson07:15
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=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 02 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 17:00 UTC: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
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