[11:34] <gnomefreak> ill deal with it more in dtail whne i get hone/
[01:42] <ziroday> @schedule Singapore
[01:42] <ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 27 Sep 20:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 23:00: Community Council meeting | 03 Oct 00:00: Kernel Team | 03 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 07 Oct 01:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 20:00: Forum Council
[01:42] <ziroday> @now
[01:42] <ubotu> Current time in Etc/UTC: September 27 2007, 11:42:53 - Next meeting: Desktop Team Development in 17 minutes
[01:42] <bordy> Ah thats better. Mornin folks!
[01:43] <ziroday> Evening
[01:58] <pitti> Hi
[01:58] <Keybuk> hiya
[01:58] <iwj> Hello.
[01:58] <pitti> apology in advance; we are in the midst of the final Beta release steps, so please mention "pitti" if you need an answer quickly
[01:58] <Riddell> hi
[02:00] <Mithrandir> morning
[02:02] <Keybuk> kwwii, MacSlow: here?
[02:03] <kwwii> yepp
[02:04] <MacSlow> sure
[02:04] <MacSlow> sorry was on the loo before the meeting :)
[02:05] <Keybuk> lol
[02:05] <Keybuk> no problem
[02:05] <Keybuk> let's get going then
[02:05] <Keybuk> #startmeeting
[02:05] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:05. The chair is Keybuk.
[02:05] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 
[02:06] <Mithrandir> woo, it has its clock adjusted now!
[02:06] <Mithrandir> amazing
[02:06] <Keybuk> [TOPIC]  apturl support for PPAs
[02:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  apturl support for PPAs
[02:06] <Keybuk> mvo?
[02:06] <MacSlow> what's the help-option for these commands?
[02:06] <mvo> yes
[02:06] <mvo> the Spec (and the current implementation) have a
[02:06] <mvo>    apt+http://foo.bar?package=baz syntax that allows adding
[02:06] <mvo>    new repositories if the repository is signed with a key
[02:06] <mvo>    we have in the apt keyring. The use-case for this was PPA.
[02:06] <mvo>    It turns out that PPAs are not signed currently and that it is
[02:06] <mvo>    uncertain when they will and with what key. I would like to disable
[02:07] <mvo>    this feature in apturl therefore for gutsy and come back to it when
[02:07] <mvo>    the situation with the PPAs is more clear. Any objections?
[02:07] <mvo> i may add that the feature is currently buggy and that I would prefer to disable it given that the main use-case is currently gone and that there are more things to attack
[02:07] <pitti> mvo: did you see my q on the ML?
[02:08] <pitti> ah, buggy in what way? that wasn't mentioned in your initial topic
[02:08] <mvo> pitti: yes, you said its not worse than gdebi (I agree)
[02:08] <pitti> I haven't seen the feature 'live' yet, I have to admin
[02:08] <pitti> admit, even
[02:09] <mvo> pitti: not well tested as there is notthing really to test against and probably not very useful as the spec requires signed repsoitores
[02:09] <mvo> that make it currently a bit mood
[02:09] <pitti> I see
[02:09] <mvo> because the only default repositories in the apt keyring are archive.u.c and archive.canonical.com (the later is not enabled by default)
[02:10] <mvo> the remainaing bit (easy way to install pkgs via: e.g. apt:2vcard) will remain of course
[02:10] <pitti> mvo: what are the bugs why we should disable it?
[02:11] <MacSlow> but isn't the PPA also meant for the broader community and 3rd-parties to have an easy mean to provide easy to install .deb for Ubuntu-users?
[02:11] <pitti> but they are not signed, noone knows what's in them, so we shouldn't make it too easy to accidentally ruin your system with them
[02:12] <mvo> pitti: the code that prevents unsigned repos currently just gives a huge warning, but let the user proceed , that needs to be fixed and it needs to be ensured that its properly rolled back. not a big deal, bu
[02:12] <pitti> but that's independent from the reason why we should disable it now
[02:12] <MacSlow> and also to help MOTUs a bit with packaging-work... I'm just wondering if the signing (with key in the offical key-ring) is meant to be mandatory
[02:12] <mvo> but its something I would have to attend to
[02:12] <pitti> mvo: I agree, that *is* a problem
[02:13] <Keybuk> what does signing guarantee you in this case/
[02:13] <mvo> given the main use-case is not ready I propose postponing it
[02:13] <Keybuk> apt signing guarantees repository integrity
[02:13] <Keybuk> not trustworthy code
[02:13] <mvo> sure
[02:13] <mvo> but we don't open the floodgates with it, only to a certain degree (launchpad)
[02:13] <pitti> well, it guarantees that you don't get packages from people or projects for which you haven't made an educated decision to trust them
[02:14] <pitti> I wouldn't like to install all PPAs out there
[02:14] <MacSlow> but PPA will not allow binary-only packages... or will it?
[02:14] <pitti> MacSlow: doesn't matter
[02:14] <mvo> we have some control over LP and PPA, but none over externally hosted repos
[02:14] <pitti> MacSlow: arbitrary source packages with buildds are fully enough to hijack your system :)
[02:14] <mvo> at least we could stop bad stuff happening
[02:14] <MacSlow> pitti, yeah... probably
[02:15] <mvo> the idea was to have the ppa signing key in the whitelist for apturl (not enabled by default, but possible to add)
[02:15] <Keybuk> pitti: anyone can have a PPA though?
[02:16] <pitti> Keybuk: right, that's my point
[02:16] <Mithrandir> if we open it for PPAs, signed or not, we might just as well open it to the world.
[02:16] <Keybuk> pitti: so I don't see where the trust is
[02:16] <pitti> Keybuk: I might decide to import mvo's gpg key into my apt keyring
[02:16] <Keybuk> PPAs end up a bit like hotmail accounts
[02:16] <MacSlow> btw... afaik SuSE
[02:16] <pitti> Keybuk: so that I can use mvo's PPA with apturl, but not everyone's
[02:17] <MacSlow> s buildservice allows nearly everything to be build... as long as it builds
[02:17] <Keybuk> pitti: I thought the original PPA spec was to use a single key for them
[02:17] <pitti> Keybuk: erm, I am reasoning under the assumption that PPAs are not signed with the Ubuntu key, but with the uploader's, of course
[02:17] <Mithrandir> pitti: how would they be?
[02:17] <pitti> Keybuk: eww; that would make them fairly useless
[02:17] <Keybuk> pitti: I wouldn't get LP my gpg private key :p
[02:17] <MacSlow> appearing to "picky" to the outside-world might shed a bad light on Ubuntu
[02:17] <mvo> in what way it will be signed is unclear currently
[02:17] <Mithrandir> LP doesn't (and can't) have my GPG private key.
[02:18] <pitti> Keybuk: not my personal one, but certainly I'd create a 'ppa key', sign it with mine, and give it to LP
[02:18] <Keybuk> simple fact is that if a user is determined to install something, they will go through whatever steps to install it they need to
[02:18] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, it seems we have a more basic problem here then, which needs to be solved before we can even think about apturl
[02:18] <iwj> When you add a PPA to your configuration you're deciding to trust it.  At that point the relevant key should be added.
[02:19] <iwj> And when you take it out again it should be removed.
[02:19] <pitti> Keybuk: right, but with apturl it gets so easy that you can do  it accidentally
[02:19] <Keybuk> pitti: I don't agree that it should be hard
[02:19] <iwj> And obviously PPAs ought to have a key per PPA.
[02:19] <mvo> it would be the same amount of work as with gdebi (big warning + password entry)
[02:19] <pitti> Keybuk: it should be hard enough so that you have to make an educated decision about it (not hard to discover)
[02:20] <MacSlow> what about haveing a "rating system" for PPAs... like the main, universe, multiverse repos... to give uneducated users a kind of guideline regarding "trustworthyness"?
[02:20] <pitti> mvo: warnings don't work with security
[02:20] <Keybuk> pitti: the only thing I can think of is that when adding an apturl, it gets the public key for it automatically and shows you a "do you trust software signed by this key?" kind of dialog
[02:20] <iwj> MacSlow: Who would decide ?  Anyone useful enough to decide that would never want all of the hideous politics.
[02:20] <Keybuk> those are whack-a-mole dialogs though
[02:20] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: and we've all seen how well they work in the windows world.
[02:20] <mvo> pitti: right, its the "I want to get my work done" thing. but people will try to get their work done anyway and they may use bad scripts if we don't provide something better
[02:21] <Mithrandir> it's a typical "do you want me to do what I just told you to?" dialog.
[02:21] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: exactly; "I want this software, stop trying to tell me I don't" is the usual reaction
[02:21] <pitti> mvo: right, so we have to make sure that we can create per-user trust in PPAs themselves
[02:21] <pitti> signing *all* PPAs with the same GPG key is worse than not signing them at all
[02:21] <Keybuk> users will jump any fence in the way of them installing the shiny app
[02:21] <pitti> because it implies trust where no trust can be
[02:21] <Keybuk> and will blame us for having the fence there in the first place
[02:22] <iwj> Personally I think giving people the expectation that they should be trusting software obtained from URLs is a bad thing.
[02:22] <pitti> Keybuk: better than blaming us for getting hacked without even knowing what they had done
[02:22] <iwj> So I suppose I mean that I disapprove of the whole principle of apturl.
[02:22] <Keybuk> pitti: they'll blame us anyway
[02:22] <pitti> Keybuk: I agree
[02:22] <Keybuk> look at all of the people who blame windows for being buggy due to the software that they have installed
[02:22] <pitti> but at least for the right reason
[02:22] <mvo> iwj: the trouble here is that people are used to it (think firefox extensions or tucows and stuff liket his)
[02:22] <Mithrandir> pitti: it seems you think the signing of the Packages file implies any guarantee of quality.  I don't think it does, I only think it implies "this is what you intended to download", which a single key is fine for.
[02:23] <iwj> The typical way to deal with these problems is, in the cases where we don't want the user to "just install it dammit" without thinking: make the UI where trust is extended separate, and make it impossible for a website to bring it up.
[02:23] <pitti> Mithrandir: but contrary to PPAs, uploading to archive.u.c. is restricted to a small number of people which we established trust to
[02:23] <Keybuk> iwj: so when you click the [Install]  button on the website, what would happen?
[02:23] <iwj> Firefox extensions are different because there's at least some kind of quality control by mozilla on the autoinstallation site.
[02:24] <iwj> Keybuk: There shouldn't be [Install]  buttons on websites.
[02:24] <Keybuk> iwj: the autoinstall site is just one site
[02:24] <Keybuk> anyone can add a firefox installer to their own
[02:24] <iwj> Keybuk: Yes, and I think that's EBW too.
[02:24] <Keybuk> firefox asks you whether you trust the site
[02:24] <Keybuk> everyone clicks Yes without ever reading that dialog
[02:24] <iwj> I'm swimming upstream on this one but we're just making a rod for our own backs.
[02:24] <Keybuk> holy double metaphor!
[02:24] <MacSlow> Keybuk, I read them... always...but click "Yes" anyway in the end :)
[02:24] <iwj> When we're as popular as 'doze, all of our users will be having all of the same problems that 'doze users have now.
[02:25] <Mithrandir> pitti: I don't see why that's relevant.  When you add a PPA key to your keyring, you're not saying "plz install everything you can find signed with this key", you're saying "I trust this key to provide packages which are as the author intended them".
[02:25] <Keybuk> s/author/key holder/
[02:25] <iwj> I don't disapprove of things like the codec installation, where an untrusted entity gets to trigger the installation of software which is trusted by us in some sense but happens not to be installed.
[02:25] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: yes
[02:25] <pitti> Keybuk: no, if ther is just a single key for all PPAa
[02:25] <pitti> PPAs
[02:25] <Keybuk> signing PPAs doesn't make much sense to me ...
[02:26] <Keybuk> we sign the archive so that the software knows that the archive hasn't been tampered with
[02:26] <iwj> Signing PPAs is obviously essential, surely ?
[02:26] <Keybuk> (ie. versions or packages replaced with others)
[02:26] <Mithrandir> signing PPAs is nice against MITM attacks, or if we ever end up having any kinds of mirrors.
[02:26] <pitti> Mithrandir: for me it is a difference whether I take all packages from an organization I trust, or all packages from a random person I have never heard of
[02:26] <Keybuk> PPAs are inherently "provide alternate versions of packages" archives
[02:26] <iwj> Otherwise someone who decides they want some PPA (eg, the PPA's own uploaders!) can't even know they're getting the packages they meant.
[02:26] <Mithrandir> pitti: I think that by extending your argument, we should use different keys for universe and main?
[02:27] <Keybuk> pitti: if you don't trust them, don't add the url? :)
[02:27] <pitti> Mithrandir: that's something we might consider, yes
[02:27] <iwj> How about we take the extended discussion to email ?  I don't think we're going to get anywhere with all of these issues in this meeting.
[02:27] <Mithrandir> pitti: if you think that's sensible, I see your argument, I just disagree with you.
[02:27] <Keybuk> iwj: agree, we're not coming to any kind of consensus here
[02:27] <iwj> In the meantime we need to make a decision about apturl and I would vote to disable it.
[02:27] <MacSlow> iwj, sounds reasonable
[02:28] <Keybuk> [VOTE]  disable apturl?
[02:28] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'm just much less concerned about the main/universe difference than archive.u.c./random PPA
[02:28] <MootBot> Please vote on:  disable apturl?.
[02:28] <Keybuk> (use +1 to disable, -1 to keep)
[02:28] <pitti> +1
[02:28] <MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 1 for, 0 against. Count is now 1
[02:28] <Mithrandir> I think we should take the discussion to UDS, since it's not at all clear we're on common ground here in any way.
[02:28] <iwj> +1
[02:28] <MootBot> +1 received from iwj. 2 for, 0 against. Count is now 2
[02:28] <mvo> iwj: you mean the "repostiroy add feature surely", not the general thing to be able to install package from our repositoreis via a click on a website?
[02:28] <kwwii> 0
[02:28] <Keybuk> -1
[02:28] <MacSlow> +1
[02:28] <MootBot> -1 received from Keybuk. 2 for, 1 against. Count is now 1
[02:28] <MootBot> +1 received from MacSlow. 3 for, 1 against. Count is now 2
[02:28] <Mithrandir> +0
[02:28] <iwj> mvo: Yes, it's OK to be able to add a package from existing repos.
[02:28] <mvo> ok, just wanted to clarify this :)
[02:28] <Keybuk> #endvote
[02:28] <MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 1 against. Total: 2
[02:28] <iwj> We just mean the thing you wanted to disable :-).
[02:29] <iwj> [ACTION]  iwj to start conversation on ubuntu-devel about automatic software installation etc.
[02:29] <mvo> thanks everybody!
[02:29] <Keybuk> mvo: disable the apt+http form for now, and we'll rediscuss at UDS
[02:29] <iwj> Hrm, it won't even let me action myself.
[02:29] <Keybuk> (so everyone who cares should watch out for it on the schedule and bring foam weaponry)
[02:29] <pitti> and asbesto pants
[02:29] <Keybuk> [ACTION]  iwj to start conversation on ubuntu-devel about automatic software installation etc.
[02:29] <MootBot> ACTION received:  iwj to start conversation on ubuntu-devel about automatic software installation etc.
[02:29] <MacSlow> :)
[02:29] <Keybuk> iwj: yeah, we've asked for some changes
[02:30] <DarkSun88> Hi all.
[02:30] <Keybuk> [TOPIC]  buildds don't have debconf accept
[02:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  buildds don't have debconf accept
[02:30] <Riddell> someone please poke infinity
[02:30] <Riddell> he's not responding to my pokes
[02:30] <Keybuk> infinity has wandered off again
[02:30] <Keybuk> he hasn't responded to mine or colin's either
[02:30] <pitti> neither to my mails I sent a few days ago
[02:31] <iwj> Are we sure he's OK ?
[02:31] <pitti> is he on vac?
[02:31] <Mithrandir> I was in touch with him yesterday
[02:32] <Keybuk> in cases where you can't get hold of people for a sustained amount of time, and it's blocking your work, it's ok to ping their team leader instead
[02:32] <DarkSun88> @schedule roma
[02:32] <DarkSun88> @schedule rome
[02:33] <Riddell> when I asked on #canonical-sysadmin elmo told me to ping infinity
[02:34] <Keybuk> ping elmo again and he won't :)
[02:34] <Keybuk> though you'll have to justify why you wan tthat
[02:34] <Keybuk> so it's better to start off with a rationale
[02:35] <Riddell> justify why I want the debconf value set?  so my package can build
[02:35] <iwj> Riddell: If you get some change made to the way the buildds are set up for building, my autopkgtest will perhaps barf on your packages anyway.  So can you keep me in the loop ?
[02:35] <Riddell> sure
[02:36] <Keybuk> Riddell: elmo might not know why the package won't build without it
[02:36] <Keybuk> he's not as familiar as infinity
[02:36] <Keybuk> so an extra paragraph of rationale in the RT ticket can mean that anyone in his team can make the change, because it's obvious why
[02:36] <Keybuk> where if it's just "do X plz" it'll get blocked on one person who might know why X needs to be done
[02:36] <iwj> Riddell: Do you think we need to argue it through here, or can it be done by email ?
[02:37] <Mithrandir> changing the chroots is not something most people in the IS team can do, though.
[02:37] <Riddell> no, I'll poke elmo more, topic done
[02:37] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: if it became urgent, they could quite easily do it
[02:37] <iwj> Riddell: As I say, send rationale to me.
[02:37] <iwj> (as well)(
[02:37] <Keybuk> (even if it meant giving the tarball to me, or you, etc.)
[02:39] <Keybuk> right
[02:39] <Keybuk> thanks to those of you who sent in 8.04 experience amendments
[02:40] <MacSlow> ah... I thought my net was flaky
[02:40] <Keybuk> (if you haven't done, please mail them by the end of today!)
[02:40] <Keybuk> see my 8.04 Planning mail if you're confused as to what I mean
[02:40] <pitti> Keybuk: I apologize; release will be done soon, then I'll think about it
[02:40] <Keybuk> pitti: that's ok :)
[02:40] <Keybuk> otherwise, do we have any other business?
[02:40] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: when was that sent out?
[02:41] <pitti> 24.09.07 16:56 Scott James Remna More 8.04 Planning
[02:41] <Keybuk> oh, Mithrandir and Riddell - don't worry that you didn't get that one
[02:41] <Mithrandir> oh, ok.
[02:41] <MacSlow> Keybuk, I've a more fundamental thing I'll send you after this meeting... which is better discussed on the distro or devel list (I left it out of my 8.04 suggestions I sent before)
[02:41] <Keybuk> since you're working on mobile and KDE respectively, I'll send different mails to you later :)
[02:41] <Keybuk> MacSlow: sure, chat to me after the meeting and we'll debate where it should go
[02:42] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: ok, thanks.
[02:42] <MacSlow> Keybuk, ok
[02:42] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: in your case, mdz will probably be asking you for feature plans anyway
[02:42] <Keybuk> #endmeeting
[02:42] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:42.
[02:44] <mvo_> sorry, disconnected
[02:44] <pitti> thanks
[02:45] <kwwii> thanks
[02:52] <dendrobates> @schedule newyork
[02:52] <dendrobates> @schedule new york
[03:19] <zul> @schedule ottawa
[03:19] <zul> @schedule montreal
[03:19] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 27 Sep 08:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 11:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council
[03:20] <juliux> @schedule berlin
[03:20] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 27 Sep 14:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council
[03:54] <arualavi> @schedule andorra
[03:54] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Andorra: 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 17:00: Community Development Team
[04:23] <nixternal> @schedule chicago
[04:23] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 27 Sep 10:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 11:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 12:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 07:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 10:00: Community Development Team
[04:27] <seisen> @schedule new york
[04:27] <ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 27 Sep 11:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 13:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team
[04:31] <kagou> @schedule paris
[04:31] <ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 27 Sep 17:00: Community Council meeting | 02 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 02 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Artwork Team | 06 Oct 19:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 14:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 17:00: Community Development Team
[04:57] <mako> greetings all
[04:57] <juliux> hi mako
[04:57] <effie_jayx> hey mako
[04:57] <BugMaN> hi all
[04:57] <effie_jayx> hey BugMaN
[04:58] <MikeB> morning all
[04:58] <mhz> morning all
[04:58] <Seveas> evenin'
[04:58] <jono> heya folks
[04:59] <effie_jayx> hello all
[04:59] <jono> btw, I am available now to discuss the LoCo Council - I was going to be on a call
[04:59] <greeneggsnospam> hi
[04:59] <Hattory> hi all
[04:59] <totopalma> hi :)
[04:59] <Pici> Hi
[04:59] <kjcole> Good or Morning.  (Like "Bright and Early", the terms are mutually exclusive.) ;-)
[05:00] <Seveas> @now
[05:00] <seisen> hello
[05:00] <dendrobates> hey all.
[05:00] <Seveas> hmpf, bot is broken
[05:00] <dholbach> heya
[05:00] <smurf> hi
[05:00] <BugMaN> hi dholbach !
[05:00] <Hobbsee> hi spam
[05:00] <Hobbsee> hi everyone
[05:00] <macd> Hi everyone
[05:01] <kagou> hi everyone
[05:01] <peanutb> i everyone
[05:01] <bordy> heyo!
[05:01] <statik> hi
[05:01] <dantalizing> afternoon
[05:01] <MikeB> sabdfl is not going to be able to make it, unknown about elmo
[05:01] <jsgotangco> i can't stay long, only for an hour - have a plane to catch in 5 hours
[05:01] <dholbach> MikeB: I just pined elmo
[05:01] <dholbach> pinged
[05:02] <MikeB> mako was planning to come
[05:02] <bordy> who struck a teacher?
[05:02] <yann2> effie_jayx > around?
[05:02] <dholbach> MikeB: <mako> greetings all
[05:02] <effie_jayx> yann2,  yep
[05:02] <seisen> seriously?
[05:02] <peanutb> as in the teachers arent going to work to prove a point
[05:02] <jono> may I schedule the LoCo Council as the first item? I have a call in 30 mins
[05:02] <OgMaciel> howdy jsgotangco
[05:02] <dholbach> ok, let's get started
[05:02] <mako> MikeB: yes, i'm here
[05:02] <mhz> jono: +1
[05:03] <MikeB> need new glasses
[05:03] <MikeB> :)
[05:03] <smurf> jono: do it
[05:03] <dholbach> jono: your stage, first item on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[05:03] <jono> ok, I would like to propose the creation of a LoCo council
[05:03] <jono> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeams/LoCoCouncil
[05:03] <jono> it inspires heavily from other council governance, so much of it is not all that new
[05:04] <jono> the LoCo project has grown large enough that it needs some of this governance
[05:04] <jono> and I am keen to not be a bottleneck :)
[05:04] <nixternal> heh, bottledance!
[05:04] <jono> nixternal: haha
[05:05] <jono> I would like to get approval today and to then suggest an initial board for the council at the next CC meeting
[05:05] <jono> or for the CC to appoint directly
[05:05] <jono> but I am keen to get the brightest and best in the loco community on the council
[05:05] <jsgotangco> reading
[05:06] <nixternal> that's actually not a bad idea seeing how large the LoCo's have gotten
[05:06] <OgMaciel> jono: so this new council would be running part of today's meeting, correct?
[05:06] <jono> OgMaciel: no, the council would have its own meetingsa
[05:06] <jono> OgMaciel: just like the forums/irc/motu councils
[05:06] <OgMaciel> jono: meaning, the approvals and etc
[05:06] <jono> OgMaciel: it could effectively take over loco approvals
[05:07] <jono> OgMaciel: so the CC does not get burdened with them
[05:07] <mako> jono: what are the single points of failure you are trying to remove?
[05:07] <OgMaciel> jono: understood... that's what I meant to say too ;)
[05:07] <smurf> jono: that's what he meant ;-)
[05:07] <jono> :)
[05:07] <jono> mako: me :)
[05:07] <OgMaciel> hehe
[05:07] <dholbach> jono: it seems that loco approvals is not part of the initial proposal yet, right?
[05:07] <jono> mako: I am also concious to provide a more objective council with a better knowledge of the community - one that lives in loco land every day
[05:08] <jono> and knows more about the cases
[05:08] <jono> dholbach: oh, isnt it?
[05:08] <jsgotangco> do you see an ideal geographical spread of council members?
[05:08] <mako> that makes sense
[05:08] <kjcole> I'm not very active in IRC, but speaking as a LoCo leader, I know we'd like to know which channels to go through for various resources.  We've had good support, but don't want to wear out our welcome anywhere.
[05:08] <mako> jono: so you need to fix the fixme
[05:08] <jono> let me fix this now
[05:08] <mako> jono: and you need to come up with a list of members to start with
[05:08] <mako> but the document looks great
[05:08] <jono> mako: like I say, I was going to suggest the members at the next CC meeting
[05:09] <jono> I wanted to get the core doc looked over first
[05:09] <mako> so this looks great and i'm happy to have a loco council.. in fact, i think i suggested it to some loco folks a year go but consensus was that it was better to wait
[05:10] <nixternal> mako: that you did
[05:10] <mako> so if the loco community feels that they're in a good position to do this, it's thumbs up by me
[05:10] <kjcole> At the same time, although politically left of center, I like the mantra of "smaller government".  So, be careful not to codify too many layers of bureaucracy into things.
[05:10] <juliux> jono, will be there a realy election for the council members?
[05:10] <MikeB> jono, should there be something on geographical diversity for Loco Council member if possible
[05:10] <musashi1> as a very activie member and education lead for the colorado loco i think something like this is needed
[05:10] <jono> I just added:
[05:10] <mako> juliux: absolutely, that's why i didn't push :)
[05:10] <jono>  * The LoCo Council will also make decisions about the approval of LoCo teams, providing the primary means of approving teams instead of the Community Council. The Community Council will still retain the ability to approve teams where required though.
[05:10] <jono> juliux: the initial council will be nominated and approved by the CC
[05:10] <MikeB> one representative per continental area or something
[05:11] <juliux> jono, why?
[05:11] <jono> MikeB: I think it would make sense to have wide geographical membership on the council where it makes sense
[05:11] <juliux> i think if there is something that is called "loco council" it should be elected by the locos
[05:11] <jono> juliux: that is how previous councils have been formed
[05:11] <bordy> sorry to stick my nose in, but should there really be any geographical limitations? What if there are more qualified candidates on one continent than another, for example if australia has 2 awesome members but is limited to one in favor of a necessary member from another continent?
[05:11] <yann2> MikeB > that sucks, fuck australia :D
[05:11] <yann2> (sorry folks :P)
[05:11] <juliux> jono, sorry but we allways did is this way is no valid reason for me
[05:12] <jono> juliux: and a popularity contest is not the best way of bringng in a council
[05:12] <juliux> jono, if there is no election, who nominates the council?
[05:12] <jono> juliux: we always did it because after much discussion that is the best way to form the basis for a council
[05:12] <smurf> bordy: all other things being equal, though, geo diversity makes sense
[05:12] <jono> juliux: I would recommend that I nominate a council based on feedback from key community members, but ultimately, the CC decided and approves
[05:12] <bordy> smurf: true
[05:13] <juliux> nixternal, that wasn't an election there was no difference in saying yes or no
[05:13] <dholbach> we just decided something similar for the MOTU Council: the old MC debates over new MC members, which after TB/CC approval are voted for publically
[05:13] <dantalizing> it'll be tough getting a geographically diverse council together..not a deal killer, but something to consider
[05:13] <smurf> we need the CC's approval because it's the CC's responsibility *now*, we can't just take over ;-)
[05:13] <mako> i just jono to come up with a good list
[05:13] <jono> juliux: this is about grandfathering in an initial council
[05:13] <yann2> jono > make a list of proposed people, and ask the loco-contacts if they agree or have some better people to propose
[05:13] <mako> and see no reason to restrict it to proportional representation or by continental area
[05:13] <juliux> yann2, +1
[05:13] <jsgotangco> i agree with mako
[05:13] <effie_jayx> jono,  why not also have people put their names up and the CC and Jono have a look at people
[05:13] <mako> the most important issues is that we have a group of people who are active and involved and who the loco community respects
[05:13] <jono> oh of course I will solicit feedback for the proposed list from loco-contacts :)
[05:14] <jono> mako: indeed
[05:14] <jono> juliux: so if I propose a list, get feedback from the loco-contacts list and submit to the CC, would you happy with that?
[05:14] <kjcole> Geodiversity makes sense in that someone will always be awake. ;-)  As long as there's some recognition of differences in government, economy, etc.  One size won't fit all.
[05:14] <juliux> jono, it is better then without any election
[05:14] <yann2> jono > a +1 for me
[05:15] <jono> ok cool
[05:15] <jono> so given the current text of the LoCo Council Proposal and the process I just outlined for getting an initial council board, are the CC happy with this?
[05:15] <mako> jono: i am
[05:15] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:15] <mako> jono: thanks for bringing this by first
[05:15] <nealmcb> jono: I'd suggest asking for feedback before proposing a list
[05:15] <MikeB> fine with me
[05:16] <mhz> jono: and the LoCo people are also happy, so everyone is hapy now
[05:16] <dholbach> I'm happy with it too; I'd maybe just add a note about how the process of loco approval between the CC and LC works out
[05:16] <juliux> jono, i also think it is a good idea to have a locoteams meeting about the loco council
[05:17] <jono> dholbach: I added a small bullet point to outline that the LC performs approval but the CC can stiull approve if required
[05:17] <jono> juliux: I agree
[05:17] <jsgotangco> i like the resource planning part though
[05:17] <jono> juliux: I will set up a meeting
[05:17] <jsgotangco> so i am in full support
[05:17] <juliux> jono, thxs
[05:17] <jono> other CC members?
[05:17] <jono> thoughts?
[05:17] <yann2> +1 for juliux, would be nice to explain to locos what the council is and what it is for
[05:17] <jono> yann2: indeed :)
[05:17] <dholbach> in the MC, we send mails to the TB on membership approval to let them do the final ACK on it
[05:17] <dholbach> not sure if you intend something like this?
[05:18] <yann2> well, I got thoughts, i explained them by mail to loco-contacts and by phone, and I think they may get solved :)
[05:18] <jono> dholbach: that could be useful
[05:18] <dholbach> all the other points are quite clear in the document
[05:18] <yann2> so definitely a +1 for the loco council
[05:18] <jono> dholbach: so the LC perform analysis of the approval, but the CC finally ACK it
[05:18] <jono> dholbach: I think that makes sense
[05:18] <juliux> i think we need more specs what the taks are for the conucl and what are the responsibilites for the council
[05:18] <dholbach> jono: that would be an idea: a short mail with links to the application would suffice, I think - what do other CC members think?
[05:18] <mako> jono: don't feel held to the text you have
[05:19] <mako> jono: if folks suggest changes that you think are reasonable, please go ahead
[05:19] <jono> mako: will do - I think the most recent suggestion by dholbach makes sense
[05:19] <jono> I will modify that
[05:19] <dholbach> great
[05:19] <mako> i don't want this tentative approval to do anything to prevent a better structure
[05:19] <jsgotangco> approvals can be definitely done via email once its available, and that way other council members can give ther opinion (those not present at the moment)
[05:19] <jono> how many more votes do we need to approve?
[05:19] <dholbach> I agree
[05:19] <yann2> mako > i made propositions on the mailing list for a better structure
[05:20] <mako> jono: most of quorate meeting
[05:20] <yann2> but it  may take some more time to set up
[05:20] <yann2> it's a very close but a bit different view of what the LC should be
[05:20] <OgMaciel> jono: a system like this: http://blogs.gnome.org/ovitters/2007/09/26/sneak-preview-of-mango/ ?
[05:21] <jono> OgMaciel: I think thats a bit down the line :)
[05:21] <OgMaciel> :)
[05:21] <yann2> basically I would love to see it have a legal existence, to be able to receive donations, and to have a process to spend the donations to help the locos
[05:21] <dholbach> if I counted correctly, mako, dholbach, MikeB and jsgotangco were in favor of it
[05:21] <dholbach> I'm not sure if elmo is with us?
[05:21] <jono> not sure
[05:21] <jono> and sabdfl is not present
[05:21] <jono> any CC members not voted?
[05:21] <dholbach> mdke and Burgundavia neither
[05:22] <jsgotangco> heh split
[05:22] <jono> so I guess we have quorum for the attended CC members?
[05:22] <jsgotangco> yes
[05:22] <MikeB> burgundavia has not
[05:22] <jsgotangco> but i am confident of the votes :)
[05:23] <dholbach> MikeB: Burgundavia is not with us, it seems
[05:24] <mako> right, i
[05:24] <mako> i'm sure we're fine, but it doesn'a matter for the moment
[05:24] <mako> this isn't binding anyway :)
[05:24] <jono> ok, I will consider this pretty much approved
[05:25] <jono> I will get the last bits sorted, and get a board recommended for the next meeting
[05:25] <mako> everyone here liked it, it will be approved when it's complete
[05:25] <jono> then we will be good to go :)
[05:25] <jono> I thank my CC overlords :)
[05:25] <dholbach> super
[05:25] <mako> awesome
[05:25] <dholbach> thanks jono
[05:25] <jono> right, I am off to do a call - any queries, mail me folks :)
[05:25] <elmo> sorry, was AFK
[05:25] <jsgotangco> thanks
[05:26] <dholbach> shall we move on to the Florida team for now?
[05:27] <bordy> hooray!
[05:27] <DoctorMO> heya
[05:27] <bordy> :)
[05:28] <pak33m> hooray for Florida and sunshine too
[05:28] <H264> I met pak33m... seems like a worthy state :)
[05:28] <bordy> H264: be fair, any state with pak33m is a worthwhile place to be
[05:28] <nixternal> CC: I can actually say that I am totally impressed by the rapid growth that the Florida team has gone through in the past months. They have taken on quite a bit and ran right through it nicely. Definitely a functional and outstanding LoCo team
[05:28] <dholbach> the wiki pages look very good
[05:28] <bordy> thanks nixternal
[05:29] <dholbach> what are the projects in the past you are most proud of? which went best?
[05:29] <nixternal> even though bordy switched back to Gnome from KDE, I still kind of like him and the team :p
[05:29] <dholbach> how long does the team exist now?
[05:29] <bordy> Team started March 3rd I believe. Maybe the 1st.
[05:29] <bordy> early march
[05:29] <jsgotangco> "BBS updates"
[05:29] <jsgotangco> :)
[05:30] <statik> I joined the team in early march and have been surprised to see it grow to 98 members by now
[05:30] <bordy> I think I personally am most proud of helping with BarCamp, I helped set it up even though I ended up not going, but we had a strong presence there, with at least one presentation (statik would know better), and definitely got the word out on Ubuntu within the Central Florida corridor
[05:30] <kjcole> nixternal: I think they're a Mickey Mouse operation and a little Goofy. ;-)  (And I don't even know any of them.)
[05:30] <nixternal> lol
[05:30] <mako> your upcoming events page seems to be quite out of date
[05:30] <MikeB> Florida is a big state, what area are you active and have meetings? how are you expanding to the rest of the state
[05:30] <bordy> Mako: the person who was doing that left, and we are trying to restructure that
[05:31] <pak33m> we have a just started a projects page as well
[05:31] <bordy> MikeB: we are most active in central florida, with tampa/orlando area... have a few outliers in Tallahassee and Miami, but mostly central.
[05:31] <statik> I see people active in jacksonville, ft lauderdale, tampa, orlando, and the space coast
[05:31] <statik> because the state is so distributed it is hard to have in person meetups
[05:31] <bordy> it is a very long state
[05:31] <jsgotangco> i can imagine that
[05:32] <nixternal> bordy: global warming will fix that eventually :p
[05:32] <seisen> lol
[05:33] <jsgotangco> how did SFD turn out in the area
[05:33] <OgMaciel> hahaha
[05:33] <kjcole> bordy, I can sympathize.  (Back when LoCo's were entire countries, I thought the word "local" to be a bit odd.)
[05:33] <bordy> jsgotangco: our gainesville members organized something at UF, but had very poor turnout from what I hear
[05:34] <dholbach> how many people show up to your IRC meetings? how do you organise things as a team?
[05:34] <mako> dholbach: dude! i was SO typing that question
[05:34] <nixternal> ya, one thing I learned, is never attempt to measure success by turnout....Chicago has seen its poor turnout as well
[05:34] <dholbach> mako: sorry for that :)
[05:34] <DoctorMO> It's dificult to include people from an entire state, even smaller ones like MA. we've taken to holding a once every 3 month meeting in central MA just for this problem
[05:35] <statik> the irc channel is pretty active all week, from 10-20 users normally
[05:35] <bordy> dholbach: our IRC meetings usually around 25ish, pak33m runs the meetings (because he's the hammer)
[05:35] <mako> sounds great
[05:35] <bordy> meetings pull in some of the other active members who tend not to idle with us
[05:35] <statik> I always skip the weekly meetings, but we get a lot of people on IRC during the week asking questions and getting assistance
[05:35] <mako> well i'd love to see more attempts at the IRL projects
[05:35] <mako> because they are very effective and help build community
[05:35] <mako> even if not all in the past have been successful
[05:35] <mako> but i'm thrilled with the online communit you've built and am happy with a +1
[05:36] <mako> you should clean up the vents page.. even blank it
[05:36] <mako> it looks real
[05:36] <nixternal> groovy
[05:36] <jsgotangco> dude, they have a BBS!
[05:36] <mako> out of date :)
[05:36] <bordy> mako: thinking about dropping it altogether
[05:36] <nixternal> BBS?
[05:36] <nixternal> no way
[05:36] <bordy> oh yeah a bbs
[05:36] <bordy> one of our youngins made it for us
[05:36] <mako> bordy: that's better than keeping it out of date like that
[05:36] <DoctorMO> whatis BBS?
[05:36] <mako> bordy: it makes you look inactive
[05:36] <statik> mako: one of the brevard members is planning an in person meeting after the gutsy release, presenting to a couple of other user groups
[05:36] <bordy> mako: indeed. I think there are better ways of organizing it anyway
[05:37] <kjcole> DoctorMO: Bulletin Board System
[05:37] <macogw> i'm with DoctorMO....what's...oh ok
[05:37] <macogw> kjcole: you type too fast
[05:37] <nixternal> that is funny, a youngin made a BBS....
[05:37] <statik> it's not a real BBS, it's just a server with SSH enabled
[05:37] <jsgotangco> yeah i just looked at the forum pages
[05:37] <statik> but it's neat that he set it up despite being so young
[05:38] <bordy> he teaches me stuff. I'm not ashamed. lol
[05:38] <dholbach> how do you think your POA is coming along?
[05:38] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FloridaTeam/POA
[05:38] <nixternal> ya, usually BBS's today are created by old people :p
[05:38] <jelkner> is there a scheduled time for the membership approval part of this meeting?
[05:38] <dholbach> what kind of activity are most people involved in?
[05:38] <jelkner> i fear i'll need to leave before it starts
[05:38] <dholbach> jelkner: this is the last agenda point before we do membership approval
[05:38] <dholbach> jelkner: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[05:39] <macogw> jelkner: got a class to teach?
[05:39] <bordy> dholbach I think its coming along nicely, we are getting more organized, more directed, and the subteam leaders are really coming through for us
[05:39] <statik> dholbach: I'd guess most folks are doing advocacy stuff, I'm trying to learn more about packaging (got several in-process right now)
[05:40] <dholbach> statik: that's great to hear - if you have questions or can get people interested in MOTU, let me know
[05:40] <dholbach> I'm happy with +1 too, seems some healthy action and good structure in the team
[05:40] <bordy> dholbach: once I learn something at all I would love to learn about packaging
[05:40] <statik> dholbach: will do, thanks for the help in #ubuntu-motu so far.
[05:40] <bordy> lol
[05:40] <dholbach> statik: de rien :)
[05:40] <dholbach> bordy: rock on, let me know when you want to get started on that
[05:41] <dholbach> MikeB, jsgotangco: any more questions?
[05:41] <MikeB> dholbach: none here
[05:41] <jsgotangco> i'm fine, giving my +1, please just update some of your pages (Events, etc)
[05:41] <bordy> yeah that events page might be sayin bye bye
[05:42] <dholbach> it might be worth looking into: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BuildingCommunity/TeamReporting
[05:42] <jsgotangco> its alright to start virtual teams for now for such a big state
[05:42] <mako> i turn into a pumpkin in 45 minutes, so lets get through as much as we can :)
[05:42] <MikeB> +1 here also
[05:42] <dholbach> congratulations florida!
[05:42] <mako> are we waiting on anyone?
[05:42] <jsgotangco> what really needs to be nurtured is the activities that you guys take part of, even tough not as a big group
[05:42] <bordy> hooray!
[05:42] <pak33m> dholbach: i will be looking at the reporting page and reporting in general for Florida
[05:42] <dholbach> pak33m: great :)
[05:43] <bordy> jsgotangco: we're trying to branch, not getting too much interaction with local lugs, but we'll get there.
[05:43] <nixternal> j1mc isn't around, so you can skip him
[05:43] <dholbach> ok, let's move on; I think jelkner has to leave in a bit; shall we get him first?
[05:43] <elmo> +1
[05:43] <kjcole> +1
[05:43] <dholbach> jelkner: your stage
[05:44] <dholbach> it's been quite a while since we met in Sydney - what happened since then? :)
[05:44] <elmo> (that was to the florida team, sorry - tho it may be moot)
[05:44] <jelkner> dholbach: my stage?
[05:44] <dholbach> for membership approval?
[05:44] <dholbach> I thought you had to leave soon
[05:44] <macogw> jelkner: your turn at membership approval because you need to go teach soon
[05:44] <jelkner> what would you like to know?
[05:44] <jelkner> i do
[05:44] <jelkner> how does this work
[05:45] <jelkner> are you asking what i've done lately?
[05:45] <Joe_CoT> jelker: briefly explain who you are, what you've done, then link to your application
[05:45] <jelkner> ahh
[05:45] <jsgotangco> :)
[05:45] <jelkner> i'm a high school cs teacher
[05:45] <jelkner> in arlington va
[05:46] <jelkner> i've setup edubuntu and ubuntu labs throughout the dc metro area
[05:46] <jelkner> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JeffreyElkner
[05:46] <dholbach> a shame none of the Edubuntu folks are here
[05:47] <mako> it is a shame
[05:47] <jelkner> i've taught hundreds of cs students using ubuntu
[05:47] <jelkner> i'm a founding member of the dc loco
[05:47] <dholbach> that sounds great, do you still dress as santa claus with flint_? :)
[05:48] <Spec> hah!
[05:48] <jsgotangco> jelker, its been a while since we did that original BoF in Sydney for Edubuntu, how do you feel about the project 2 years after :)
[05:48] <jelkner> only flint can be credited with that ;-)
[05:48] <kjcole> jelkner's just an oversized elf.
[05:48] <jsgotangco> and what do you plan on int as well :)
[05:48] <nixternal> jelkner: I will join your loco in a few months, cool? I am moving back out to DC in the spring it looks like
[05:48] <jelkner> edubuntu gets better with each release
[05:48] <jelkner> i'm now using the share desktop features at one of the schools
[05:48] <Spec> nixternal, awesome!
[05:49] <jelkner> anything else?
[05:49] <jsgotangco> as part of the DC loco, what activities have you been part of, and planning to, with regards to your affiliation with ubuntu?
[05:50] <musashi1> as a teacher myself, i think we need more teachers advocating for ubuntu and open source in general.
[05:50] <jelkner> software freedom day for the last 3 years
[05:50] <jelkner> table at the takoma park folk festival
[05:50] <dholbach> that sounds great
[05:50] <jelkner> (where general awareness of and enthusiasm for ubuntu was *really* high)
[05:51] <nixternal> man, this membership process is making me reminisce big time
[05:51] <jelkner> our loco is very active
[05:51] <dholbach> MikeB, jsgotangco, mako: any more questions?
[05:51] <kjcole> jelkner helped draft me as the DC LoCo team leader.  I tried to get a deferral but it didn't work. ;-)
[05:51] <jelkner> we are all friends at this point and do a lot of things together
[05:51] <mako> i've been familiar wiht jelkner's work for a long time
[05:51] <jelkner> tomorrow Spec turns 21
[05:52] <jelkner> so we are taking him out for beer!
[05:52] <Spec> no, that was the 25th
[05:52] <mako> in any case, i'm happy with a +1 for jelkner
[05:52] <macogw> jelkner: he turned 21 two days ago!
[05:52] <MikeB> dholbach: none here, definite +1
[05:52] <kjcole> he's been instrumental in organizing transportation, rallying students and others, providing meeting space, etc.
[05:52] <dholbach> +1 from me, good work
[05:52] <Spec> just i'm busy w/ school/work until then
[05:52] <mhz> Spec: then at least 1 beer per day missing :)
[05:52] <jsgotangco> I am fine, I believe jelkner as an ubuntu member has been long overdue, +1, I've been aware of his activities ever since
[05:53] <dholbach> so that 4 +1, elmo?
[05:53] <Spec> so whose votes count, current members or just those on the council?
[05:53] <jsgotangco> "rallying students"
[05:53] <mhz> Spec: councils
[05:54] <dholbach> mako, MikeB, jsgotangco, elmo: I'll be away for just a few minutes in the mobile meeting, which starts in 5, just to let you know
[05:54] <mako> Spec: just the council
[05:54] <macogw> mako: you're late :P
[05:54] <dholbach> ok, let's move on then, we're good with +4 already?
[05:54] <mako> dholbach: just a few?
[05:55] <mako> yes, lets move on
[05:55] <jelkner> i apologize for going out of order
[05:55] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:55] <dholbach> mako: yes, one agenda item
[05:55] <jelkner> the problem for me (and mattva01 too)
[05:55] <jelkner> is that we are in a school setting
[05:55] <mhz> jelkner: \o/  congrats!
[05:55] <jelkner> bell will ring we need to leave
[05:55] <macogw> mattva01 is his student
[05:55] <jsgotangco> i have to go too in a while, i have a plane to catch in 4 hours but i can still sit on 3 memberships
[05:55] <jelkner> thanks!
[05:55] <dholbach> congratulations
[05:55] <seisen> \0/
[05:55] <H264>  |
[05:55] <bordy> grats jelkner!
[05:55] <jsgotangco> jelkner: congrats, btw, what happened to colin applegate
[05:55] <dholbach> j1mc seems not to be here. peanutb?
[05:55] <kjcole> jelkner and mattva01 are playing hookey, and on school grounds, which sort of defeats the purpose.
[05:56] <peanutb> e can read it beforehand. Come well prepared, otherwise the meetings will take too much time.
[05:56] <peanutb> e can read it beforehand. Come well prepared, otherwise the meetings will take too much time.
[05:56] <peanutb> rawr
[05:56] <peanutb> im trying to copy/paste my speach
[05:56] <jelkner> jsgotangco: still around, but not active
[05:56] <peanutb> Hello, My name is Paul. I am also known as peanutb or Peanut butter. I have been using Linux since Suse 9.0 and Ubuntu since Hory. Last year I joined the Ubuntu PNW team and I have helped plan all of the major events in Washington and some of the events in Oregon. I am currently trying to get the Ubuntu Washington loco up and kicking, and have also helped
[05:56] <peanutb> revive the local lug GSLUG. I have been the webmaster of http://pnw.ubuntu-us.org for a while now, and I am also a moderator on the mailing list. I have helped many people on ubuntu forums, #ubuntu, and over the 6 months or so. My wiki page is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulBartell . I was featured in an article in the Seattle PI last april, commenting
[05:56] <peanutb> on the Dell Ubuntu deal.. See my wiki page for a link. I apologise for the semi-out-datedness of my wikipage, as i wasent planning on showing up. An unexpected teacher strike changed that.
[05:57] <jsgotangco> peanutb: FTW :)
[05:57] <Spec> were you at ubuntu-live?
[05:57] <peanutb> no. i was in europe
[05:57] <peanutb> I wanted to be though
[05:58] <seisen> omg
[05:58] <H264> I drove 7 hours just to meet him at an event in Washington
[05:58] <mako> peanutb: i like the article in the pi :)
[05:58] <H264> ok, well maybe not *Just* to meet him
[05:58] <peanutb> mako, thanks
[05:58] <dholbach> peanutb: what did you like doing best in Ubuntu? which of your contributions are you proud of?
[05:59] <nixternal> CC: peanutb is a pretty big part of the US LoCo team scene and is a great assett, so I am throwing in my support for his membership!
[05:59] <peanutb> I am most proud of the Linux Fest northwest ubuntu booth
[05:59] <nixternal> strip that t will ya
[05:59] <mako> peanutb: great wiki page, also creative
[05:59] <mako> you seem to have been extremely active and passionate
[05:59] <kjcole> I dunno... I expected so much more from a 14-year-old. ;-)
[05:59] <mako> peanutb: any plans for the future with ubuntu and your project?
[05:59] <H264> peanutb: yeah the linux fest northwest way way fun :)
[06:00] <dholbach> away for a just few minutes now
[06:00] <peanutb> I guess Continue spreading ubuntu and work twords becoming a MOTU
[06:00] <dholbach> peanutb: great, let me know how that goes
[06:00] <peanutb> will do.
[06:00] <dholbach> peanutb: seems you have been working on some specs too?
[06:00] <peanutb> not really.
[06:01] <dholbach> oh, you mentioned some on your wiki page
[06:01] <mako> awesme
[06:02] <mako> i don't need to spend any more time, i'm happy with a +1
[06:02] <mako> good work, well documented
[06:02] <MikeB> +1 for mw
[06:02] <jsgotangco> +1 from mine too
[06:02] <MikeB> me
[06:02] <dholbach> +1 from me too
[06:02] <peanutb> Thanks everyone
[06:03] <bordy> hooray for peanutb!
[06:03] <mattva01> gratz
[06:03] <H264> WooHoo for peanutb :D
[06:03] <mayeco> hahahahaa
[06:03] <mayeco> can I go?
[06:03] <nealmcb> I"m ready
[06:03] <kjcole> Congrats peanutb
[06:03] <jsgotangco> i have to go after nealmcb
[06:04] <nealmcb> Hi, I'm Neal McBurnett.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NealMcBurnett   I've been an Ubuntu user, promoter, contributor and distributor since the first release in 2004, on servers and desktops, for myself and several non-profit organizations. I've been active with *nix since 1977 (at Bell Labs) and have never had Windoze on my desktop :-)
[06:04] <nealmcb> I've been active in the Colorado LoCo, having helped Joey start it in 2006.  I organized a little Ubucon at Google in Boulder last June and helped out with a Colorado education conference where Jim Hutchinson et al. presented an Ubuntu demo: https://wiki.edubuntu.org/TIEColorado.  I've edited a bunch of wiki pages, authored the identity-selector spec and commented on others.  Some examples are linked to from my wiki page.
[06:04] <nealmcb> I'm now working on another local Ubucon this fall, and  continuing to get my feet wet with code contributions via bzr in Launchpad. I'd like to also use my enterprise Linux/Solaris experience from Internet2 and Bell Labs to contribute to the NetworkAuthentication efforts.
[06:04] <soren> I just have to say that we're very happy to have nealmcb working with us on the Server Team. He gets two thumbs  up from me.
[06:05] <nealmcb> I'm not the biggest or fastest contributor, but I try to provide a broad perspective when I do contribute, and help bring Ubuntu together with other local user groups.  For lots more than you wanted, see also my home page - http://mcburnett.org/neal/
[06:05] <nealmcb> that's all I'll paste
[06:05] <nealmcb> thanks, soren!!
[06:05] <H264> woah, no windows... :)
[06:05] <dholbach> nealmcb: do you plan to become a MOTU too? :-)
[06:05] <musashi1> he has done a lot to help the colorado team
[06:06] <nealmcb> dholbach: If I can find time I'll do some packaging - I tested ppas
[06:06] <jsgotangco> nice comeback wiki page!
[06:06] <musashi1> ubucon, help at the tie conference, helping organize meetings and events, etc
[06:06] <mako> nealmcb: how did ubucon-boulder go?
[06:06] <nealmcb> but I don't find lots of spare time in my life :-)
[06:06] <dholbach> nealmcb: nice
[06:07] <nealmcb> mako: it was small (15 or so) but we got press in LWN about it, and had a good time and shared lots of cool stuff
[06:07] <mako> awesome
[06:07] <nealmcb> We didn't have much time since we planned it to precede the TIES conf.  next one will be bigger.
[06:08] <nealmcb> google is moving to a bigger office in boulder :-)
[06:08] <musashi1> and maybe google won't forget the shirts next time :)
[06:10] <jsgotangco> hmm
[06:10] <jsgotangco> anything more for nealmcb?
[06:10] <nealmcb> jsgotangco: you want me to say more? or asking for questions?
[06:10] <dholbach> I'm happy with the testimonials of everybody, I'm happy to +1
[06:10] <jsgotangco> questions :)
[06:10] <mako> yes, i'm happy to +1 as well
[06:11] <mako> it's really come together
[06:11] <jsgotangco> +1 as well
[06:11] <MikeB> +1 for me
[06:11] <mako> good documentation and a nice long-term committment
[06:11] <musashi1> congrats
[06:11] <nealmcb> mako: yeah - long-term committment you've got from me :-)
[06:11] <bordy> hooray nealmcb!
[06:11] <dantalizing> wtg nealmcb
[06:11] <nealmcb> thanks all!!
[06:11] <nixternal> hrmm, congrats nealmcb...I would have given a cheer, but the meeting moved to quickly it seems and I missed it by blinking
[06:11] <jsgotangco> i'm happy to see smeone getting involved in the server stuff too
[06:11] <nealmcb> nixternal: :-)
[06:11] <dendrobates> nealmcb: congrats!
[06:12] <kjcole> nealmcb welcome aboard
[06:12] <jsgotangco> i have to exit now, thanks everyone and congratulations to those approved and goodluck to the rest
[06:13] <nixternal> later jsgotangco
[06:13] <mattva01> gratz neal
[06:14] <sacater> Congrats to peanutb
[06:14] <kjcole> (mattva01 is also applying for membership, in case that wasn't clear.)
[06:14] <nixternal> CC: I need to roll, but before I go, I am cheering on bordy and OgMaciel(ummm, thought you were a member, silly me I guess)
[06:14] <dholbach> bordy seems to be up next on the agenda?
[06:14] <OgMaciel> nixternal: renewing
[06:14] <nixternal> ooh, I will stick around for this
[06:14] <OgMaciel> :)
[06:14] <MikeB> dholbach and mako, how long do you have
[06:14] <nixternal> OgMaciel: ahhh....I was like wth is going on :)
[06:14] <bordy> If mattva01 has to leave, I wouldnt mind waiting for him
[06:15] <dholbach> I still have some time left
[06:15] <macogw> nixternal: until i found out otherwise on SFD, i thought jelkner was already one as well
[06:15] <OgMaciel> nixternal: but thanks for the support :)
[06:15] <dholbach> elmo: are you still there or busy?
[06:15] <dholbach> mattva01: your stage
[06:15] <mattva01> I'm Matthew Gallagher, I work with Jeff Elkner to admininster the ubuntu computers he mentioned previously.I'm very active in the DC LoCo team, but my main role at the moment is just publicity
[06:16] <nixternal> what happened with bordy?
[06:16] <mattva01> My goal is to eventually become a MOTU.
[06:16] <bordy> nixternal: wanted mattva01 to get his say in before me, he has to leave
[06:16] <nixternal> ahh, gotcha
[06:16] <kjcole> (mattva01's page is up at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MatthewGallagher)
[06:17] <Spec> i can attest mattva01 spends available time supporting/promoting ubuntu
[06:17] <jelkner> matt has become a great help as a package builder
[06:17] <dholbach> mattva01: how's the packaging coming along? you packaged python-pygame?
[06:18] <mako> MikeB: another 10m
[06:18] <dholbach> ah no, python-gasp it is
[06:18] <mattva01> no , I  have packaged python-gasp and schooltool-cando ( which are not in repos yet)
[06:18] <dholbach> mattva01: when do you plan to propose them for inclusion in ubuntu?
[06:18] <kjcole> In addition to doing the LoCo stuff, mattva01's helped revive the YHSLUG, and he helped out with the forensics re the recent issue with our server in August.
[06:18] <Spec> and you're an LP beta tester as well, yes?
[06:19] <mattva01> yes
[06:19] <mattva01> hardy heron
[06:19] <dholbach> mattva01: be sure to let me know how that goes
[06:19] <dholbach> those packages sound useful
[06:19] <Spec> and are currently testing ppa, right?
[06:19] <mattva01> yes I am
[06:19] <jelkner> i use matt's ppa for gasp
[06:20] <jelkner> (graphics api for students of python)
[06:20] <mattva01> still confused about a couple things, but I like the system
[06:20] <mattva01> for ppa I mean
[06:20] <mako> mattva01: your wikipage is a little bit thin
[06:21] <mattva01> I can work on it
[06:21] <mako> right, not bad
[06:21] <kjcole> mako: He's not a big talker. ;-)
[06:22] <kjcole> more of a do-er.
[06:22] <mattva01> Well, most of the things I have done with Jeff
[06:22] <mako> you have great testimonials from a variety of people
[06:22] <mako> so i'm happy with a +1
[06:23] <mako> but you should spend more time updating your wiki page to help document that contribution
[06:23] <mako> call it a condition :)
[06:23] <MikeB> +1 here
[06:23] <mattva01> yep, will do :)
[06:23] <dholbach> +1 from me too
[06:23] <kjcole> mako: I'm guilty of the same, I fear.
[06:24] <mako> better than having a great wiki page and doing nothing, i suppose :)
[06:24] <dholbach> ok, great - shall we move on?
[06:25] <loserboy> lol
[06:25] <elmo> +1
[06:25] <kjcole> bordy: Down boy.  Good doggie.
[06:25] <bordy> lol
[06:25] <dholbach> congratulations mattva01, bordy: your stage
[06:25] <bordy> alright i have a couple small paragraphs... bear with me plz
[06:26] <bordy> Hello all, my name is Chris Rohde, and I am a 25 year old junior accountant and full-time student at University of South Florida. I have only been using Ubuntu since Dapper, but fell in love with it as soon as I started using it, and made it my personal mission to help others see the light that is Ubuntu.
[06:26] <bordy> I started the Ubuntu Florida LoCo Team in March 07, and since have spent all my time working on spreading and improving that team and its influence within Florida, as well as learning as much as the team members would teach me about Ubuntu. As I was never the most technically proficient user in the world and depended heavily on community documentation as well as support from the Florida Team to get anything done, I have tried to pass on what I kno
[06:26] <bordy> I helped plan Orlando's first BarCamp, even though I was ultimately unable to attend (my stupid father in law wanted to turn 50 that day), and right now we are planning Gutsy release parties in Florida, and I mean to see to it that a few more Florida members are here in front of you in the next few months, as there are some outstanding people in there.
[06:26] <bordy> Here is my wiki: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisRohde
[06:26] <bordy> and here is my application/testimonials page: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChrisRohde/Accomplishments
[06:26] <bordy> there we go
[06:26] <dholbach> "... pass on what I kn" <- something was truncated
[06:27] <nixternal> bordy: tell them how you really started :)
[06:27] <bordy> Alright fine, I started begging Nixternal for help
[06:27] <bordy> lol
[06:27] <nixternal> haha
[06:27] <pak33m> beg he does
[06:27] <bordy> But I am almost (almost) self-sufficient now. Only ask the complicated questions now
[06:27] <mako> ok, i'm about to disappear
[06:27] <mako> this will be my last one for the day
[06:28] <nixternal> man, talk about perfect timing
[06:28] <mako> just in time to replace the rapidly disappearing mako
[06:28] <dholbach> what's the 'ubuntu diy team'?
[06:28] <dantalizing> bordys done a lot to get the fl loco going
[06:28] <mako> tag, you're in
[06:28] <nixternal> tag team!
[06:28] <nixternal> haha
[06:28] <bordy> dholbach: I havent actually heard anything from it in a while, I believe I was working with funnylookinhat, but truthfully been too busy to chase after it recently
[06:29] <dholbach> ok, because you listed it in your application
[06:29] <nixternal> dholbach: diy is a marketing team project that just provides a bunch of stuff to the do it yourself advocators
[06:29] <dholbach> ah ok
[06:29] <dholbach> nice
[06:29] <Burgundavia> there was also an attempt to create a webpage to post marketing projects to
[06:29] <mako> great, talk to you later
[06:29] <dholbach> you're in the screenshots team too?
[06:29] <mako> mail me if there are any open questions
[06:30] <dholbach> see you mako
[06:30] <Spec> see ya, mako
[06:30] <bordy> vaya con dios mako
[06:31] <macogw> oh bye mako
[06:31] <dholbach> bordy: what do you want to work on in the next months? what would you like to see happening in the Ubuntu world?
[06:33] <bordy> dholbach: I have never been the most technical of people, I am trying to learn python and ruby right now, trying to learn by doing with some scripts and trying to understand bots. In the next few months I am going to try to work on getting Florida Team's subteams more self-sufficient, and then increase cooperation between them to delegate responsibility
[06:33] <bordy> Also, (and this is in *very* beginning stages) I am working with crane and boredandblogging (of AL and GA, respectively) to try to set up some sort of linuxfest SouthEast... but thats a gigantic undertaking, and will most likely be a year or more in the works
[06:33] <dholbach> that sounds great
[06:34] <dholbach> Burgundavia, MikeB: any more questions?
[06:34] <bordy> ideally, I want to learn some programming because I would like to see an increase in proper accounting software for ubuntu so I can more easily convince small businesses of its worth
[06:34] <Burgundavia> not from me
[06:34] <bordy> because, speaking as an accountant, the current programs dont really cut it :(
[06:34] <MikeB> dholbach: none here +1 for me
[06:34] <nixternal> true dat
[06:34] <seisen> bordy we need to talk some time about accounting
[06:34] <Burgundavia> +1 from me
[06:34] <dholbach> +1 from me too, great work, good testimonials
[06:35] <bordy> seisen: will do, lookin forward to it
[06:35] <dholbach> elmo?
[06:35] <loserboy> *highfive*
[06:35] <elmo> +1
[06:35] <dholbach> congratulations bordy
[06:35] <dholbach> dendrobates: you here?
[06:35] <dendrobates> yep
[06:35] <bordy> Woohoo! thanks guys!
[06:35] <nixternal> congrats bordy! I feel like I have accomplished something today
[06:35] <bluekuja> congrats bordy
[06:35] <seisen> that would be a project i would be interested in nealmcb
[06:35] <bluekuja> cya nixternal
[06:36] <dantalizing> congrats bordy!
[06:36] <bordy> thankee!
[06:36] <pak33m> good job bordy!!
[06:36] <macd> could I get on the stage sometime in the next 45mins?
[06:36] <nealmcb> bordy: congrats!!
[06:36] <dendrobates> Hi I'm Rick Clark.  I work for Canonical as the manager of the Ubuntu server team.  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/dendrobates  I'm fairly new to Ubuntu, but I am a long time Linux user.  Currently my main community focus is growing the Server community particularly with people that work in corporate environments.  I am as acitve as I can be in the Georgia US Loco, I can't always attend the IRC meetings, but I make an
[06:36] <dendrobates> effort to attend any face to face meetings.
[06:36] <dendrobates> Many of the things I work on are currently not public, but UDS planning, Hardy planning take up a large part of my time these days.  My most recent sucess was getting re worked libpam-ldap and lib-nss-ldap packages in main, as well as ldap-auth-config and ldap-auth-client, which I created.
[06:37] <dholbach> How's the ubuntu server community shaping up?
[06:37] <dendrobates> It is starting to look better
[06:38] <dendrobates> we have a few good active people like nealmcb.
[06:38] <dendrobates> It is more challenging to attract people with the right knowledge to the server team.
[06:38] <dholbach> What could new contributors do in the server team?
[06:39] <dendrobates> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/GettingInvolved
[06:39] <dendrobates> we need testers badly
[06:40] <kjcole> make nice to the man with the inside track on things. ;-)
[06:40] <dendrobates> people who have access to server grase hardware.
[06:40] <kjcole> s/grase/grade/
[06:40] <soren> I'm going to dinner, so I'll just throw in my two thumbs up for dendrobates as well. He's going a great job in managing the server team, and I trust he'll be a critical part of making Ubuntu Server rock even harder.
[06:41] <dendrobates> soren: thanks and cheers
[06:41] <soren> cheerio
[06:41] <mralphabet> dendrobates: Or hardware companies providing server grade hardware to test on for the server team ;)
[06:41] <dholbach> MikeB, Burgundavia: any more questions from you?
[06:41] <dendrobates> mralphabet: that is correct, but we charge for that, so it is tricky.
[06:41] <mralphabet> dendrobates: ahh
[06:41] <Burgundavia> the server team has been rocking, thanks dendrobates +1 from me
[06:41] <nealmcb> dendrobates: canonical charges for it?
[06:41] <statik> dendrobates: what qualifies as server grade hardware for the type of testing you need? currently the only thing listed on the testing page is AppArmor
[06:42] <MikeB> dholbach: +1 here
[06:42] <dendrobates> we want things to work, and then we want hw mfgs to pay us to certify
[06:42] <macd> dendrobates, you should contact me later, we have labs full of newer dell server (upto blades too) we can test with
[06:42] <dendrobates> macd: I will, thanks.
[06:42] <statik> dendrobates: actually, I can ask you later, don't want to get too offtopic
[06:42] <dholbach> +1 from me too; I met dendrobates personally, know how dedicated he is and know that he does good work
[06:43] <mralphabet> Sorry, didn't mean to muddy the waters
[06:44] <elmo> +1
[06:44] <dholbach> rock on
[06:45] <dholbach> congratulations dendrobates
[06:45] <dholbach> deadwill does not seem to be around
[06:45] <dendrobates> thanks guys.
[06:45] <dholbach> viridari neither
[06:45] <jelkner> please excuse my out of turn comment here yet again, but i need to vouch for macogw before i go
[06:45] <dholbach> demrit neither
[06:45] <jelkner> i have to sign off
[06:45] <dholbach> paulliu neither
[06:45] <DktrKranz> Dear CC members, I have to leave now. I left my cheers for totopalma, Hattory and BugMan in their wiki pages, I hope you will take this into account. Thank you.
[06:45] <dendrobates> Please go to the wiki and help the server team out
[06:45] <jelkner> macogw has been a great contributor to our loco
[06:46] <dholbach> seisen: you're here - your stage :)
[06:46] <seisen> ok
[06:46] <seisen> My name is Michael Price and I am a college student majoring in Accounting. I am a member of the Beginner's Team, Ubuntu Wiki Team and the Ohio Loco Team among other teams . I am very active on the Ubuntu Forums and I have helped cleaned up the wiki pages and created a few new pages on the Wiki.  I am also look at starting a FreeGeek where I live at since we don't have anything like that near me and I planned on using Ubuntu as
[06:46] <seisen> the OS.
[06:46] <seisen> what did I do scare people away
[06:47] <seisen> almost forgot https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Seisen
[06:47] <dholbach> what kind of documentation do you like writing?
[06:47] <macogw> seisen: jelkner had to go teach a class, it wasnt you :)
[06:47] <seisen> i was just joking
[06:48] <seisen> The ones I wrote where for printers it doesn't matter really
[06:48] <dholbach> wow, that looks like quite an amount of work you put into the wiki
[06:48] <dholbach> I saw you are hanging out in the doc team channel - are you working with the doc team too?
[06:48] <seisen> yes and there is still a whole bunch left
[06:49] <seisen> I am going to try help with the documentation with the next release
[06:49] <Belutz> am I too late?
[06:49] <dholbach> seisen: what are the biggest challenges, when cleaning up docs?
[06:50] <OgMaciel> do I have 30 minutes before I'm up?
[06:51] <OgMaciel> or 4
[06:51] <macogw> OgMaciel: depends if everyone's here
[06:51] <seisen> trying to find links for outdated pages
[06:51] <dholbach> I will have to go in like half an hour
[06:51] <macogw> OgMaciel: a bunch of people were just *poof*
[06:51] <dholbach> I hope mdke turns up before that
[06:51] <OgMaciel> hmmmm
[06:52] <Burgundavia> I have to go in about 10 minutes, off to class
[06:53] <dholbach> I'm pretty happy with seisen's contributions; it would be nice to see you working more closely with the doc team, but that's on your agenda, so that's cool
[06:53] <dholbach> Burgundavia, MikeB, elmo?
[06:54] <elmo> sorry, two secs to catch up
[06:54] <Burgundavia> +1 from me. More doc contributors are always good
[06:54] <elmo> (beta is a bad day for CC meetings for me ...)
[06:54] <MikeB> +1  here, great work on docs
[06:54] <dholbach> +1 fomr me too
[06:54] <dholbach> elmo: I can imagine
[06:54] <MikeB> elmo: I will remember that in the future:)
[06:55] <bluekuja> heya ScottK
[06:55] <elmo> +1
[06:55] <dholbach> neat-o
[06:55] <dholbach> congrats
[06:55] <dholbach> macogw: your turn
[06:55] <seisen> thanks
[06:55] <bluekuja> grats seisen
[06:55] <macogw> I'm Mackenzie Morgan, and I've been using Ubuntu for a year.  One of my friends suggested Ubuntu when I said I was thinking about Mandriva.  For 3/4 of the year, I'm a member of the DC LoCo and help with the events here, like Software Freedom Day and Takoma Park.  I also help with installfests as a board member of my school's chapter of the ACM, and with demo-ing FOSS with the school's OSI chapter.  The other 1/4 of the year, I'm home in Pittsb
[06:55] <macogw> urgh where I defenstrate my family's and friends' computers.  I have a blog where I post news about Linux & FOSS and tips & tricks for making Ubuntu (and often Linux in general) do different things, http://ubuntulinuxtipstricks.blogspot.com (long URL, I know) and a Google Calendar where I put big events in the FOSS world (like UDS, release dates, etc).  My wiki page can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MacoMorgan
[06:57] <kjcole> jelkner's already listed his support for macogw (scroll back to before he split).
[06:57] <macogw> oh well spec has lovely timing
[06:58] <kjcole> My turn.  I ment macogw last year and since then she's been very visible online and at events.
[06:58] <elmo> I like the pwgen-inspired AIM handle
[06:59] <kjcole> She's one providing for providing answers to all.
[06:59] <macogw> pwgen?
[06:59] <Burgundavia> I have to run, but based on the recommendations and a quick scan of her page/blog, +1 from me
[06:59] <macogw> it's inspired by my lyrics from my favorite band (AFI), elmo
[06:59] <macogw> s/my//
[07:00] <elmo> macogw: ah, fair enough, was just kidding
[07:00] <kjcole> She was one of our four tablers for the two SFD events we had.
[07:00] <macogw> there's a photo of us all tabling on the most recent post on my blog
[07:00] <macogw> i shouldve told jeff that
[07:00] <kjcole> spec, nice timeing on the split. ;-)  Speak up man.
[07:01] <Spec> hmm?
[07:01] <macogw> Spec: it's my turn and you timed out as soon as they called my name
[07:01] <kjcole> spec, macogw's up.
[07:01] <Spec> oi
[07:01] <Spec> i fully support maco's induction to ubuntu membership
[07:02] <dholbach> sounds great, what part do you like best about the forums?
[07:02] <macogw> dholbach: they're a great resource for "works for me" advice...very useful when in "why doesnt it work?!?" mode
[07:02] <Spec> extremely helpful helping out local ubuntu users and helping w/ our LoCo
[07:02] <dholbach> which sections do you spend most time on?
[07:03] <macogw> Community Cafe and Absolute Beginners
[07:03] <dholbach> what are your plans for the next months? what would you like to see happening in the ubuntu world?
[07:03] <macogw> sometimes i go through absolute beginners and try to get debugging info out of the 0-replies threads to boost them along
[07:04] <MikeB> I see macogw on the forums, she does get work
[07:04] <macogw> Well, next month I intend to help DC LoCo with an installfest and I'm in the process of helping plan the post-Gutsy-release installfest for my school
[07:04] <pleia2> macogw has been active in the #ubuntu-pennsylvania - we're getting the pittsburgh end of the state going but based on what I've seen I have no doubt she'll be a valuable help to the project once we do :)
[07:04] <dholbach> nice... that's all from me; I'm happy to give +1 based on all the good feedback
[07:05] <kjcole> dholbach: There's an effort to start up a "Free Software for Non-Geeks" class in the area, and I believe macogw's on board for that as one of the teachers.
[07:05] <dholbach> MikeB, elmo?
[07:06] <MikeB> +1
[07:06] <elmo> +1
[07:06] <kjcole> Ouch.  What timing you two have. ;-)
[07:06] <macogw> sorry, school's wifi is rather bad
[07:07] <macogw> pleia2 just filled me in on what i missed
[07:08] <dholbach> congratulations macogw
[07:08] <macogw> thanks
[07:08] <dholbach> I think we're short of CC members now
[07:08] <macogw> heh
[07:08] <dholbach> with just MikeB, elmo and me around
[07:08] <dholbach> :-/
[07:08] <kjcole> Do CC members mail in votes late after skimming the logs?
[07:08] <dholbach> it seems we have to handle all the other applications next time.
[07:09] <Spec> quick, make me a CC member *innocent*
[07:09] <macd> :/
[07:09] <dholbach> kjcole: I think we approved all the member applications we got around to this time
[07:09] <kjcole> So, did macogw make it or not?
[07:10] <ScottK> macogw: Just saying Hi since I live in the DC area and your wiki pages asks people to...
[07:10] <elmo> I'm happy for us to proceed with just us 3, if you 2 want to and are happy to
[07:10] <macd> do people who didnt get on the block need todo anything or just wait till the next time? (i.e. need to add back to the wiki?)
[07:10] <dholbach> kjcole: yes, 4 +1
[07:10] <macogw> ScottK: oh ok hello :)
[07:10] <elmo> we were doing it with just me + Mark last time, so this would be better than that ;-)
[07:10] <dholbach> elmo: I'll need to leave in a bit too
[07:10] <elmo> (at least numerically)
[07:10] <macogw> ScottK: we're meeting on friday if you'd like to come.  Spec's 21st birthday and all that
[07:10] <kjcole> dholbach: Oops.  Sorry.  Missed the congrats line.  I see it now.
[07:10] <ScottK> macogw: Sorry, I'll be out of town.
[07:11] <macogw> ScottK: oh ok.  well there's an installfest in the works, so maybe you can come see us all then
[07:11] <dholbach> Ok... I'll make sure we get the next CC meeting announced ASAP, will mail the members tomorrow
[07:11] <MikeB> dholbach: thanks
[07:11] <macogw> OgMaciel: yes, do break for lunch.  you have to wait until the next meeting because too many CC members popped out
[07:11] <elmo> sorry about the people we didn't get to :(
[07:11] <ScottK> macogw: Only if I get to install Kubuntu ;-)
[07:12] <macd> just more time to keep on doing what were doing :)
[07:12] <OgMaciel> macogw: no worries... I'm only trying to renew :)
[07:12] <dholbach> have a nice day everybody
[07:12] <OgMaciel> later dholbach
[07:12] <bluekuja> dholbach: you too daniel
[07:12] <kagou> later dholbach
[07:12] <elmo> OgMaciel: you should be able to just renew yourself?
[07:12] <MikeB> later all
[07:13] <macogw> ScottK: if you're willing to burn the necessary cds
[07:13] <OgMaciel> elmo: not sure... figured I'd give you guys the chance to ask me questions again  ;)
[07:13] <seisen> later everybody
[07:13] <pochu> OgMaciel: lol :)
[07:13] <macd> take it easy people, maybe next meeting you'll get to interrogate me
[07:13] <Belutz> elmo, was there a discussion about loco council in this meeting?
[07:13] <OgMaciel> pochu: :)
[07:13] <macogw> well i should go to my internship so i can play with python and get annoyed at the government for not using proper XHTML and making it hard to parse the Supreme Court's website
[07:13] <elmo> Belutz: yep, you can check the logs in /topic
[07:14] <Belutz> elmo, ok thanks :)
[07:14] <pochu> OgMaciel: can I deactivate myself to be interrogated too? ;)
[07:14] <OgMaciel> pochu: hehehehe
[07:14] <Spec> yeap...i need to study for test :/
[07:14] <dfiloni> have a nice day men
[07:14] <OgMaciel> well, I better go before it's too late
[07:14] <dfiloni> bye
[07:14] <kjcole> I gotta make up two hours of lost time as well.
[07:14] <Spec> congrats, macogw
[07:14] <OgMaciel> later guys
[07:14] <BugMaN> have a nice day, bye
[07:15] <macogw> Spec: thanks *hug* (no kissing in public, remember?)
[07:15] <kjcole> bye stepmom. ;-)
[07:15] <macogw> haha
[07:15] <macogw> bye stepson
[07:15] <macogw> :P