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pkernScottK: RCPT TO:<obby-announce@list.0x539.de>01:10
pkernScottK: Oops. \:01:10
pkernScottK: http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/09/26/how-to-install-vmware-server-on-ubuntu-710/01:10
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bsniderwhen exactly is gutsy beta 1 being released? is it laster tonight or some time tomorrow?02:39
therethinkerThey will release it as soon as you leave town for a week ;-)02:41
gnomefreakbsnider: thursday or friday UTC02:41
therethinkerAway from the internets02:41
bsniderhow stable is it right now?02:41
gnomefreakbsnider: its not hence the work alpha/beta02:42
gnomefreakits more stable than the tribes before now02:42
bsniderthe livecd seemed ok as of a couple of days ago02:43
TheMusoI haven't seen an announce for it yet.02:43
TheMusoHey imbrandon.02:52
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bddebianHeya gang02:55
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ScottKheya bddebian.03:08
bddebianHi ScottK03:08
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bddebianFrick', I'm so demotivated03:22
=== StevenK rips bddebian a new one.
StevenKDoes that help?03:22
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bddebianStevenK: Sure, thanks :-)03:35
bddebianStevenK: Now, how to get me a brain?03:35
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bddebianWhy Wizard of Oz?  "If I only had a brain.." type of thing?03:46
StevenKbddebian: Yes.03:47
bddebianOh, did you have any luck with the libapache-asp-foo thing last night?03:47
StevenKI stopped looking. I was going to dig again this afternoon.03:55
StevenKIt's still in my todo list.03:55
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meteormananyone see me?04:02
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meteormanoh, good, thought the cloaking device stopped functiong..04:04
meteormanso, does everyone here have private chats going?04:06
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ajmitchhello jml04:09
jmlajmitch: hi ho04:09
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bddebianajmitch: !04:10
ajmitchbddebian: yes?04:12
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bddebianajmitch: Just an enthusiastic Hi :-)04:18
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bddebianajmitch: SHould Bug #104616 be fix released?  You said you uploaded it to debian but I don't see any updates in Debian or Ubuntu04:34
ubotuLaunchpad bug 104616 in gnue-appserver "[apport]  gnue-appserver crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10461604:34
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bddebianGah, who the hell keeps marking all these bugs as Fix Comitted when they aren't..05:04
RAOFbddebian: Any in particular?  Tracker seems to be a mass of "fix comitted, because it's fixed in SVN" bugs.05:05
pwnguincommitted isnt released05:05
bddebianThe fixes are not committed if it's not in the repos afai am concerned05:05
pwnguinbut id always figured it meant fix uploaded05:05
pwnguinif its apt-gettable its released05:06
RAOFYes, that's my understanign of what it means too.05:06
bddebianUbuntu repositories.  If its in svn but not Ubuntu it ain't fix committed to me05:06
TheMusoIMO fix released means built successfully, but it seems others think otherwise, i.e when using a bug number in a changelog.05:06
bddebianWell that's a whole different issue :-)05:07
TheMusocauses a bug to have a fix released change.05:07
bddebianOMFG I give up05:09
RAOFbddebian: if it's any consolation, I don't think anyone likes that fix comitted meaning.05:09
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bddebianIt was fine when it meant it was uploaded to Ubuntu.  I don't know who keeps moving the meanings of everything anymore05:10
RAOFAFAIK, that usage is actively incorrect, and it doesn't mean what the changer thinks it means.05:12
pwnguini thought lp autoupdated that stuff05:12
RAOFLike "inconcievable"05:12
pwnguini guess05:12
RAOF</princess bride>05:12
StevenKRAOF: :-)05:15
AmaranthRAOF: did laserjock ask you for an interview right after you joined too?05:16
RAOFAmaranth: No, he hasn't.  Not yet, at least.05:16
=== RAOF considers filling bigon's RFP for libgnome-keyring-cil
AmaranthRAOF: huh05:16
RAOFAmaranth: You're just special.05:16
=== ajmitch hasn't been asked
AmaranthNow that is surprising05:16
RAOFAmaranth: Possibly as the person most likely to be thought to be already a MOTU.05:17
=== TheMuso hasn't been asked either.
=== TheMuso remembers when he fronted the tech board to become a MOTU, and Amaranth thought I was already a MOTU.
RAOF.au & .nz just aren't interesting, apparently.05:18
AmaranthTheMuso: Hey, that reminds me, you're an a11y guy, right?05:18
=== bddebian shouldn't be one
RAOFbddebian: Shush!05:18
TheMusoAmaranth: Yes indeed. If I am not mistaken, you dropped into #orca on gimpnet the other day did you not?05:19
AmaranthTheMuso: I did05:20
AmaranthTheMuso: I need to make compiz talk05:20
TheMusoAmaranth: As in the window manager part of things?05:20
AmaranthTheMuso: apparently just using pango is not enough and i really don't want to subclass atk05:21
TheMusoAmaranth: The only thing I can suggest is to see how metacity does it.05:21
AmaranthTheMuso: alt-tab and such05:21
AmaranthTheMuso: I think they use a GtkLabel05:21
TheMusoAmaranth: Well unfortunately I am not entirely up on how the infrastructure works within GNOME.05:21
TheMusoI am more an integration/end-user perspecitve person at this point.05:21
AmaranthWe use pango, snag the cairo context from pango, render it into a texture, and paint that on the screen05:21
AmaranthTheMuso: does orca crash and take the app it's speaking with it on gutsy for you too? :)05:22
Amaranthwell, not crash, freeze05:22
TheMusoAmaranth: Occasionally, yes. This is with metacity.05:22
AmaranthDoes it every 5-15 minutes here05:22
Amaranthkilling orca unfreezes the app05:23
TheMusoYep, same here.05:23
TheMusoI don't think it happens that often for me, but it does happen.05:23
TheMusoUsually close to the beginning of my session. Once its been started another time, it doesn't usually happen till I next log out/in.05:24
TheMusoAnd today at least, its only been once, and that was early this morning. My session has been running for almost 5 hours now.05:24
StevenKYay, Amaranth might fix my bug05:25
Amaranthit's funny, everyone always complains about metacity's code05:25
TheMusoAmaranth: Is it a metacity problem?05:25
Amaranthno no05:25
Amaranthi just like reading metacity's code05:25
Amaranthwell, the recent additions to it, anyway05:25
TheMusoI've never tried compiz + orca actually.05:26
Amaranththe core window management stuff is a mess, the alt-tab popup, window placement algorithm, edge detection, etc code is all very nice and easy to follow05:26
TheMusoThe window titles/alt tab doesn't speak more than likely however.05:26
AmaranthTheMuso: window titles are fine, that's libmetacity05:26
TheMusoAmaranth: Right.05:26
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TheMusoAmaranth: As it is, it would be nice to actually get this fixed at some point, as Orca may end up using the new ezoom plugin that was done as a soc project.05:27
TheMusoat some point in the future.05:27
TheMusofor magnification.05:27
Amaranthright metacity uses a GtkLabel and pulls the Atk context out of it to do further tweaking05:28
=== Amaranth cries
=== StevenK kills Kmos.
Amaranthi wonder if i can fake it05:28
Amaranthput a GtkLabel somewhere invisible05:28
ajmitchStevenK: why would you do that?05:31
StevenKAmaranth: Does compiz already link against libgtk? Because adding a GtkLabel would make you grow one.05:31
TheMusoAmaranth: I gather that thats a bad way to code it?05:31
AmaranthStevenK: gtk-window-decorator draws the switcher05:31
TheMusoAmaranth: as in what you said about what metacity does05:31
AmaranthTheMuso: indeed05:31
StevenKajmitch: We are just about to release beta, and he privately mailed me asking me to put the RC of gimp in.05:32
ajmitchah, why would he mail you?05:32
StevenKAmaranth: Ah, that's alright then.05:32
ajmitchthat's just a bit mad05:32
StevenKajmitch: Because I did the upload of rc105:32
TheMusoAmaranth: fun.05:32
ajmitchhe was promising someone in here earlier that the final release of the gimp would make it into gutsy05:33
Amaranthuh, ha?05:33
ajmitch08:40 < so1> will gimp stay at rc2 or will it be updated when the final will be released?05:33
StevenKThat's very interesting, because I don't think it will.05:33
TheMusoI think kmos has ruffled the feathers of all who are present. :)05:33
ajmitch08:53 < Kmos> so1: it will be updated05:33
ajmitch08:54 < Kmos> until gutsy final version05:33
ajmitch08:54 < Kmos> i'm pretty sure =)05:33
ajmitchTheMuso: nah, he couldn't do that :)05:34
ajmitch09:08 < ScottK> so1: Just in case you can't tell, Kmos really has no idea if it'll be updated or not.  Neither do I.05:34
TheMusoajmitch: Oh I forgot, of course he couldn't. He reads all docs and processes, and follows the rules. :)05:34
=== StevenK will ask seb128 about rc3 when he surfaces.
ScottKRuffled feathers is a VERY mild way of putting it.05:36
Amaranthcan probably get another release of gimp in, along with the general desktop exception for 2.20.105:37
Amaranthbut if the final isn't out when gnome 2.20.1 is...05:38
StevenKAmaranth: That's what I'm guessing - I'm happy to jump to rc3 if seb128 is okay with it05:38
ScottKSpeaking of GIMP, I'd like a 2nd opinion on if I was correct to attribute this bug to gimp-python?05:45
ScottKBug 14537605:45
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145376 in gimp "[apport]  sphere.py crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14537605:45
TheMusoOh lovely. Examining a package from the rc bugs list, which generates its debian/packagename.install file at build time.05:50
bddebianLucky you :-)05:52
TheMusoOh yeah.05:54
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TheMusoScottK: You might want to take a look at codespeak-lib on the rc bugs list. The Debian bug is resolved by commenting out a command that seems to work on i386, but not on ppc, and the builds reflect that for the Ubuntu version. I'm wondering if the issue can be fixed a better way...06:12
TheMusoI could apply the fix from Debian, but it doesn't seem logical to me, commenting out something that clearly includes useful material in the package.06:12
ScottKCan you make the call arch specific?06:18
TheMusoScottK: Yes, I was thinking of that, but thought a better solution may be possible, and since as far as I know, you are good with python, I'd thought I would ask you.06:23
ScottKTheMuso: I didn't realize it was python from the name.06:24
RAOFIs there any *particular* reason we have a clearlooks-engine package, last touched in hoary, in Universe?06:24
ScottKNo one cared enough to write the removal bug?06:25
TheMusoScottK: Yeah it creates a python- binary package name.06:25
ScottKIs it hurting anything?06:25
ScottKTheMuso: Is codespeak-lib the source package name then?06:25
RAOFScottK: Not really, as far as I can tell.06:25
bddebianGnight folks06:27
AmaranthRAOF: I can't find that06:27
RAOFAmaranth: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clearlooks-engine/06:28
AmaranthRAOF: apparently it doesn't (never) built?06:29
TheMusoScottK: yes06:29
RAOFAmaranth: No, builds successfully on all but lpia according to LP06:29
AmaranthRAOF: but the binary was overrided by the gtk2-engines source package06:31
Amaranthso there is no binary package for clearlooks-engine in Ubuntu06:31
AmaranthNo wonder no one noticed it :P06:31
ScottKSounds like a good candidate for removal then.06:32
ScottKTheMuso: I'll have a look in a minute.06:32
RAOFYeah.  Filing the removal bug now.06:33
RAOFIn fact, it's doubly obsolete; there was a clearlooks package, too, that got removed in dapper.06:34
TheMusoScottK: No hurry, but I thought you may be able to work out a better solution.06:35
ScottKIt's after midnight here.  I'll look at it tonight if I get this package I'm working on done before I run out of steam.  Otherwise I'll probably forget.06:36
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TheMusoScottK: It only FTBFS on powerpc, for the reason I explained above, so if not, I just might make it arch specific on top of how it was fixed in Debian.06:38
ScottKTheMuso: Have a look at Debian bug 439400.  Is it worth it?06:44
ubotuDebian bug 439400 in wnpp "RFA: codespeak-lib -- The pylib library containing py.test, greenlets and other niceties" [Normal,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/43940006:44
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TheMusoScottK: Thats the bug I was referring to...06:45
ScottKThe request for adoption?06:45
TheMusoScottK: Well it FTBFS on powerpc only, and since I have that arch, I can look at it.06:46
TheMusoI didn't see that.06:46
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ScottKIs it a package you are interested in generally?06:46
ScottKMaybe you want to adopt it?06:46
=== Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie
TheMusoScottK: No, I was just going through the rc list.06:47
TheMusoMeh probably worth leaving it. It will be synced next cycle, and only ppc misses out.06:48
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ScottKTheMuso: WIthout the details of what it died on in the build (which aren't in the bug), there's really no way for me to come up with a better solution.06:50
TheMusoScottK: As I said, it will be synced next cycle.06:51
=== TheMuso moves on.
ScottKI made a new package, built, tested it and added it to the Debian Python Modules Team repo for sponsorship in an hour.  That's kind of cool.06:56
ScottKhe says to himself idly ...06:56
=== RAOF thinks that's cool.
TheMusoIs it just me, or is the rc bugs list not showing comments fields for all packages?06:58
ScottKIt's a python datatype for CIDR matching.  Which, if you need to do CIDR matching seem like it would be handy.07:00
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ScottKTheMuso: If it's got a comment field under Serious, it won't have it again under Grave if it's in both.07:00
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TheMusoah ok07:00
ScottKIf that's what you are seeing, I believe it's by design.07:01
ajmitchdue to incompetence of author07:02
TheMusoajmitch: It makes sense actually.07:03
ajmitchI've had requests to change it to comments per bug07:04
TheMusoajmitch: I can understand people's thoughts on that, but still seems fine to me now I know how its set up.07:06
ajmitchwhat needs fixed on it?07:07
ScottKajmitch: If you were going to change it, I'd put the grave bugs at the top so comments go next to those.07:07
ScottKStevenK: If you are going to look at updating GIMP, I'd appreciate it if you consider Bug 145376 when you do so.07:09
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145376 in gimp "[apport]  sphere.py crashed with ImportError in <module>()" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14537607:09
ajmitchScottK: ok, done07:10
ScottKajmitch: Cool.  Thanks.07:10
ScottKI see we lost the URL to that page out of /topic.07:11
ScottKajmitch: What's the URL again?07:11
ScottKbddebian's gone to bed so I have to be hopeless now.07:12
TheMusoIts on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO07:12
ajmitchinitially setup just as a test, but then it stuck07:12
ajmitchso I can't easily change URL now07:12
ajmitchafternoon lifeless07:17
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RAOFGood afternoon lifeless07:18
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lifelesshi guys07:19
ajmitchmaybe I can get something like motu.ubuntu.org.nz07:19
=== ajmitch finds the loco person
ajmitchwell I see that catalyst registered ubuntu.org.nz a couple of years ago07:20
ajmitchand the current loco coordinators happen to work at catalyst...07:21
ScottKAnyone doinb websvn off the RC list?07:22
ScottKIf not, I'll get it....07:22
ajmitchmaybe I can convince them for server space as well07:22
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ScottKIf a package depends on php5 | php4 do I need to merge it or can I leave it?07:31
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ScottKajmitch: ^^^?07:32
sorenScottK: As in what? Remove php4?07:34
ScottKsoren: Yes.  Do I need to remove the option to depend on php4 or can I leave it (it's a sync otherwise)?07:34
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sorenScottK: Just leave it.07:34
ScottKOK.  THanks07:34
TheMusoHey dholbach.07:35
dholbachgood morning07:35
dholbachhey TheMuso07:35
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ScottKwebsvn is done.07:38
ScottKGood morning dholbach07:38
=== ScottK is going to head to bed now.
dholbachhey ScottK07:40
dholbachScottK: good night :)07:40
ScottKHey even07:40
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ScottKHobbsee: If you are wanting to raise your blood pressure you might grep through LongPointyStick's logs and see what fun Kmos has been up to while you were away.07:42
ScottKGood afternoon too Hobbsee.07:43
=== ScottK found out long enough ago that he can probably sleep.
HobbseeScottK: urgh.07:43
HobbseeScottK: what's he done?07:43
=== Hobbsee notes that the sponsorship queue hasnt exploded.
ScottKNo, the problem isn't volume this time07:44
ScottKJust promising people that the final GIMP would make Gutsy and then emailing StevenK to ask him to make sure it did.07:44
Hobbseeoh yay...07:44
ScottKThe only progress I'm noticing is the reduction in volume.  I'm still not detecting and increased (or extant) clue factor.07:45
dholbachhe shouldn't have promised it, but the release team should at least review the upgrade to rc307:45
Hobbseedholbach: i'm sure we will, but him peskering about will only make it slower, not quicker07:45
ScottKdholbach: Agreed, but he's raising people's expectation on stuff he's no idea about and distracting people from getting work done.07:46
HobbseeScottK: well, then everyone will know that he's on crack.  which may not be bad.07:46
ScottKWell the person in question was someone I don't recall seeing active here before.  He's not the first impression we want to make.07:47
dholbachI'll talk to him07:47
HobbseeScottK: true, but until people like dholbach and jono feel like chucking him out, rather than speaking to him and attempting to make him more clueful, we're stuck with his misinformation.07:47
ScottKRight.  On my list of reasons for spending less time on Ubuntu after Gutsy releases.07:48
dholbachcome on now07:48
StevenKI'm happy to look at rc3, I'd just prefer not to get Kmos mailing me saying "Debian already has it =)"07:48
dholbachhe's not wreaking havoc07:48
dholbachand we had people badger us about new versions of *whatever* before07:48
ScottKdholbach: I think the entire situation with him has been very poorly handled from the perspective of allowing us to get actual work done.07:48
dholbachwhat do you think how many mails seb128 got about the newest pidgin etc?07:49
ScottKdholbach: I don't mean today, I mean in general.07:49
StevenKdholbach: The fact he mailed me isn't the problem - the fact that he told someone that GIMP 2.4 final would be in Gutsy is.07:49
dholbachI'll talk to him07:49
dholbachso you're saying is: remove him from the community, else I'll do less for Ubuntu?07:50
Hobbseedholbach: yes, but it's kmos.07:51
dholbachhow many people that have trouble understanding what we do will we face when MOTU gets more mainstream?07:51
Hobbseedholbach: sorry?07:51
StevenKYeah, parse error07:52
dholbachI have concerns, when it comes to the point that this is 'the kmos problem'07:52
dholbachall I'm saying is: this is not the last time that somebody misunderstands what we do and how we do it07:52
dholbachand removing those people from the community is not what I call the standard way to deal with people07:53
ScottKdholbach: I understand it very clearly which is why I despair that in a case as clear as this abusive/destructive behavior is tolerated.  It's only going to get worse.07:53
minghuaIsn't gimp in main?07:53
Hobbseeminghua: oh yes.07:53
StevenKdholbach: Of course. But other people tend to listen.07:53
ScottKdholbach: There's a point where it's the only answer.07:53
dholbachwouldn't you agree that things have changed?07:53
ajmitchhey Hobbsee, dholbach07:53
StevenKOr better, *actually ask questions*07:53
Hobbseemy problem with this isnt the fact taht someone's misunderstood.  my problem with this is that the someone has *continually* misunderstood, and seems to be making little to no effort in actually attempting to undersatnd.07:53
Hobbseehi ajmitch07:53
ScottKdholbach: Only the volume.07:53
dholbachI mean I'm not saying that the gimp was the right thing to do07:54
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Hobbseedholbach: sure, he's changed. he's ogne from random closing of bugs, to sync floods, to removal floods, to saying things that he has no right to promise.  he keeps changing, but it doesnt seem to be an *improvement*07:54
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ajmitchHobbsee: it wasn't a firm promise, just a 'yes' followed by "I'm pretty sure =)"07:55
ScottKEach time we say don't do X he either does X anyway or picks Y and causes more trouble.07:55
Hobbseeajmitch: right.  i havent looked at the logs yet.07:55
dholbachdo you have the bug number for that?07:55
dholbachI'll talk to him.07:55
ScottKajmitch: He had no way to be pretty sure.07:55
ScottKdholbach: It was here on IRC.07:55
dholbachoh ok07:55
dholbachI'm not saying he did not cause a lot of trouble, but this gimp case is not really worth being outraged about it.07:57
dholbachas I said, I'll talk to him07:57
ScottKdholbach: Remember all the confusion he caused over the ddclient UVFe.  His presence just seems to make everything harder.  How much harder is a function of his activity level.07:57
ajmitchI think it's more of a cumulative thing07:57
ScottKajmitch: Yes.07:57
ScottKdholbach: He's way past out of 2nd chances in my book.07:57
StevenK6th, 7th ...07:57
dholbachI'll talk to him and propose to him talking me through his changes before he does stuff07:59
ScottKSo, back to my earlier point, the fact that Ubuntu appears to be willing to tolerate an effectively inifinite (I'd imagine there is a limit, but it's undiscovered as of yet) degree of destructive behavior makes it a less fun environement for me to volunteer my time in.07:59
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Hobbseedholbach: good luck.  iirc, you said that last time.07:59
dholbachHobbsee: he's been asking me much more since then07:59
Hobbseedholbach: still not enough, it seems.  but OK.07:59
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=== Hobbsee wonders if dholbach has looked at the ddclient stuff yet
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dholbachHobbsee: I looked at it and am waiting for an update on it08:01
Hobbseedholbach: in all honesty, if it's a choice between using time to fix processes, and to help out other people, and to get more people into MOTU, with the mentoring, etc, vs going with kmos, and fixing every hairbrained thing that he does...i know which i'd pick.  But really, it's your call - because you'll be the one doing it.  And, of course, you'll be the one answering to Canonical about what's happened, and whether it was a good decision or08:02
pwnguinwho is this kmos person?08:05
dholbachright, if you don't want to deal with him because you've spent a lot of time on his mistakes already, that's perfectly ok08:05
Hobbseedholbach: so you're offering to deal with all his bugs on the sponsorship queue, and fix all the messes he does in here?08:06
ScottKpwnguin: You don't want to know.08:06
Hobbseepwnguin: he's a guy who attempts to "help out" - but has a weird idea of what helping out is08:07
pwnguinwell, i might want to at least know how to avoid him :)08:07
pwnguin"he helps all the time. people just misunderstand his help and end up running... or burning... or dying"08:07
dholbachHobbsee: there's nothing in the sponsoring queue of him right now08:07
Hobbseepwnguin: he's gone from random closing of bugs, to sync floods, to removal floods, to saying things that he has no right to promise.08:07
Hobbseedholbach: yes, for good reason.08:07
Hobbseedholbach: he's kept his promise to not sync-flood, at least for the moment08:08
dholbachHobbsee: but yeah, I'll ask him to work with me as a mentor08:08
Hobbseedholbach: OK.  so we'll shunt any bugs to you, presumably?08:08
=== TheMuso feels that kmos hasn't annoyed hi too much.
TheMusoI just deal with whatever he does as it comes.08:08
TheMusoAs much as he is frustratig, I don't let it annoy me.08:09
dholbachHobbsee: works for me08:09
TheMusoBecause if I do, then I'll get more frustrated, and then it adversly affects my work.08:09
=== dholbach hugs TheMuso
HobbseeTheMuso: unfortunately, at some level, i know i'm the co-head of the sponsorship queue - so i do have to make sure that people are happy with the way it works, and fix it when it doesnt.  i cant just ignore it forever.08:10
HobbseeTheMuso: and even more unfortunately, some of that involves kmos.08:10
ajmitchHobbsee: fine then, shunt some off to me as well if you want08:10
Hobbseeajmitch: great!  :)08:10
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TheMusoHobbsee: I understand, and I'm sure if things from kmos get too much, I'll make suggestions where necessary, but I am doing my best to take the bad with the good.08:11
ajmitchthough I'd still have to pass any UVF-related ones to you08:11
dholbachok, I think we've talked about most points now - I'll catch him as soon as I can and keep you informed of how that goes08:11
Hobbseeajmitch: i'm happy to delegate them too - or at least, make sure a MOTU has gone thru and checked if the changes are sane.08:12
TheMusodholbach: I'm happy to help where I can, as I always try to give him a chance, but there are limits.08:12
TheMusoIt could be that I'm not around enough to clean up after him or something. :p08:13
=== ajmitch wonders if we can try & avoid as many NEW packages as possible for hardy
TheMusoajmitch: Sounds sane to me.08:13
ajmitchwe're going to have our hands full making sure you can upgrade from dapper or gutsy08:13
StevenKThat's going to make for some fun discussions in Boston08:14
ajmitchbug 145467 looks interesting08:14
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145467 in ubuntu "compaq v3428 " [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14546708:14
StevenKA what now? :-)08:14
=== RAOF wonders idly what changed his /dev/mapper symlinks so that Storage-gutsy_chroot -> Storage-gutsy_chroot . No wonder sbuild isn't working.
StevenKRAOF: Way cool.08:15
RAOFStevenK: Totally!08:15
RAOFI suspect the devmapper upgrade that just got installed.08:16
StevenKThat's like having /dev/sda1 -> / and then wondering why your machine panics at boot.08:16
=== StevenK is still pondering how to destroy his work machine tomorrow
ajmitchwhy would you want to?08:17
StevenKBecause it's my last day. :-)08:17
ajmitchI see08:17
pwnguinwhy destroy what you can subtly own?08:18
minghuaajmitch: Which part is interesting?  The Chinese part? ;-)08:20
ajmitchminghua: yes, I can't quite make sense of it08:20
minghuaajmitch: I can.  But what should I do?  seb has said before that we should just outright close non-English bugs.08:21
minghuaAnd if we close the bug, where should we point him to?08:22
ajmitchI thought there were (overworked) people who were translating some bugs08:22
minghuaIt's a pretty poor bug report anyway...08:23
ajmitchI assumed so, from the brevity of it08:23
ScottKMark it incomplete and LP will take care of it in time....08:23
minghuaOkay, let me phrase something.08:23
=== minghua is in a good mood today.
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=== StevenK updates bug 145467
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145467 in ubuntu "compaq v3428 " [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14546708:26
ajmitchthanks :)08:28
pwnguinyou gonna play translator the whole time?08:28
StevenKActually, a workmate just threw the text into Google, and it dealt.08:28
StevenKHe's about to paste it into the bug.08:28
minghuaDoes people really want to deal with that bug?  I can translate the report - but I honestly don't think it's worth the effort.08:30
ajmitchnot enough info to be very useful there08:31
minghuaI just put some words there to ask him not to submit bug reports in Chinese.08:31
pwnguindo the locos have answers queues?08:31
StevenKI saw that. I'm amused by the fact that I've managed to get 2 other people in the office looking at this bug.08:32
pwnguinits no more unique than the random spanish language bugs08:32
minghuaIMHO Spanish speaking bug triagers should do the same thing to those bugs.08:34
pwnguini'd be comfortable with an answers queue for other langages08:35
minghua(and then, if the bug is clear, maybe do a translation for the developers to look at)08:35
=== minghua would volunteer to monitor and deal with Chinese answers queue, too. But we probably don't have that, do we?
pwnguinive got your password now!08:37
TheMusoI'm not that careless08:39
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=== TheMuso shakes his head at one of Debian's weird odoties, not moving a package into testing, just because it doesn't build on two obscure arches, that nobody is likely to use the package on anyway. :)
TheMusoTry running ardour on mips or mipsel.08:41
pwnguini thought they decided to move mips to a lesser priority08:42
pwnguinwhat runs mips anymore?08:42
TheMusopwnguin: I don't know. I'm just ona debian list where a question was raised about a package not being in testing, and an answer was given, with the mips/mipsel FTBFS as the reason.08:43
minghuaTheMuso: It's not oddity.  An arch is either supported or unsupported.  And if it is, a package can't entering testing if it's not up-to-date on that arch.08:43
ScottKAny other way would lead to insanity.08:43
TheMusominghua: I know its not an oddity, but it seems odd for the package in question.08:43
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minghuaTheMuso: Why?  If it's blocked from going into testing, it must have been built on mips/mipsel before.08:44
TheMusominghua: Yeah, I know.08:44
minghuaTheMuso: So it's a good argument that the FTBFS should be properly dealt with.08:44
TheMusominghua: Well from the message, it seems that ardour's deps need to be fixed, before ardour itself can be built.08:45
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minghuaThen ardour is just a victim.  But such things happen all the time.08:47
pwnguinstill, im surprised mips is supported08:47
minghuaSometime you don't even need the new features in the libraries you depend on, but since the shlibs version is bumped, you have to stay in unstable with the library and can't enter testing.08:48
pwnguini really should have started my ppa with fiesty and then uploaded to gutsy08:50
pwnguininstead of trying to backport stuff08:51
RAOFWhy must xgl crashes invariably fail to retrace?08:52
RAOFMaybe?  I'm not actually sure what can cause a retrace to fail, actually.08:53
pwnguinim not sure what a retrace is08:53
pwnguinsounds like a debugging stack thing08:53
RAOFYeah, apport automatically (tries) to re-backtrace the crash with debugging symbols installed, if I understand it right.08:54
pwnguinall you'd have to do is mess with the stack08:55
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pwnguinuser space threading libraries do that08:56
pwnguinas do those super efficient nerds08:56
RAOFStupid darn Xgl.  It also lies about accepting the +xinerama option.08:57
pwnguinthe fun part is when people ask to attach an strace to authentication failures08:59
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dholbachwe should go through another round of unmetdeps bugs - only ScottK suggested that we might be better off without bug lists, as people tend to block each other out by assigning bugs to themselves - hrm09:04
dholbachI feel we should better try to block as minimally as possible09:04
TheMusodholbach: How else do we do it if not bugs?09:05
Hobbseedholbach: dont we usually do that with a bugflood, then just tag?09:05
HobbseeTheMuso: generate our lists ourselves, and keep uploading them09:05
dholbachTheMuso: yeah09:05
Hobbseedholbach: if we do it via apt-cache unmet -i, then a) we may be doing stuff that others have found break, and b) it's dependant on our mirror09:06
TheMusoYeah that is an option.09:06
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dholbachHobbsee: I could modify the old 'massfile' script to use py-lpbugs, check if the bug is already filed (?field.tag=unmetdeps) then file it09:06
Hobbseeso i suspect bugs may still be the way to go there.09:06
Hobbseedholbach: that would be useful09:06
Hobbseedholbach: link in the topic, etc.09:06
dholbachI'm writing a blog post, when I just had this idea09:06
Hobbseedholbach: the other thing is then - to make sure that people are sponsoring from non-MOTU's.09:07
Hobbseewe had a few cases of MOTU's doing the work without checking for bugs, where the hopeful had already done it too09:07
dholbachah ok yeah09:07
dholbachbut that's a more general process thing09:07
dholbachif we can codify that somewhere, we should do it09:07
dholbachGOD, we need a merged wiki :-)09:07
Hobbseea merged wiki?09:07
dholbachyeah, not a mess of 13967146 motu wiki pages that are in random places09:08
dholbachyou'd end up adding a "please, when you're dealing with bugs, do 1), then 2) then 3)" to at least five pages09:08
StevenKdholbach: I'll remove all of them leaving /MOTU, would that do? :-P09:08
dholbachStevenK: haha... welll - that's not what I proposed in the wiki clean up spec ;-)09:08
\shoh unmet deps..now where even the suggests and recommends are checked09:08
dholbachI'll modify massfile to use pylpbugs instead of mailing, make it operate on a 'config file' that has a lookup-bug-url (?field.tag=unmetdeps in our case) and a standard text for description and title of the bug (also you need to give it a list of source packages)09:10
dholbachdoes that make sense?09:10
=== dholbach should take the dog for a walk before that
StevenKdholbach: Does to me.09:10
StevenKI've been looking for unmetdeps work to do.09:10
dholbachrock and roll09:10
Hobbsee\sh: not if you use -i09:10
dholbachI'll get working on that script later09:10
=== TheMuso keeps on going through general universe bugs.
\shHobbsee, yeah, but we should fix the suggests etc. as well...it's bad when someone tries to install some suggests and it's not in the archives anymore or with another name09:11
dholbachwhen you're all triaging universe bugs, please tag as 'bitesize', 'packaging' and so on :)09:11
Hobbsee\sh: true09:11
=== Hobbsee tags all the bugs as bitesize.
Hobbseethe unmet deps should tend to be bitesize09:11
=== dholbach hugs Hobbsee and TheMuso
dholbachwe have 'unmetdeps' too09:12
=== TheMuso just tends to fix them.
\shwell, in the upcoming months until end of december I think I have to have other responsibilites...searching new jobs ;)09:12
Hobbseeyes, and they should be easy to fix09:12
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Hobbseeby the time we find the solution - as to whether it's easy or nto, i find it's easier to upload it09:12
=== dholbach -> dogwalk
TheMusoHobbsee: I'm kinda the same.09:12
TheMusoBTW, do we have good documentation to explain to hopefuls about bashisms?09:13
Hobbseeask persia.  he read the entire wiki.09:13
\shTheMuso: any idea how to fix them really...I mean setting /bin/bash is not a real solution ;)09:13
TheMuso\sh: Depends on what the bashism is.09:14
TheMusoTHe most common one is using {} and putting comma separated strings between them.09:14
TheMusoWell from what I've seen anyway.09:14
\shTheMuso, yepp...09:14
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TheMusoI can't think of any others atm.09:14
StevenKSome of the unmetdeps I've seen are not bitesize09:15
\shand using == for "is equal" checks09:15
\shwe need to fix tomcat5.5 btw09:15
\shit's old...09:15
\shbut tomcat5.5 5.0.35 FTBFS because of a different eclipse version09:15
HobbseeStevenK: true that.09:15
TheMusoStevenK: Agreed. Take sear for example.09:15
TheMusoI was looking at that the other day. Fixing the deps is the easy part, but it also needs some c++ hacking love to get it to build.09:16
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TheMusoYet to get it work with the deps in ubuntu, you need to edit configure.ac, and run autoreconf09:16
TheMusoThat certainly isn't bytesize.09:17
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pwnguini love source code written in english by guys who cant bother to translate their website09:22
minghuaMaybe it's just English-speaking programmers and non-English-speaking web designers. :-P09:24
pwnguinits clearly a one guy affair09:25
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\shHobbsee, do you have a linkedin account or something like that09:43
Hobbsee \sh i dont, no.09:44
Hobbsee\sh: should i?  :)09:44
\shHobbsee, good for job hunters to find you ;)09:45
SWATand spammers...09:45
Hobbsee\sh: good point.09:45
HobbseeSWAT: my email is very public - it wouldnt matter, i dont think09:45
Hobbsee\sh: i havent previously, with the whole point about using an alias, etc.09:45
Hobbseebut i should perhaps rethink that09:46
pwnguini donno about linked in09:46
pwnguinit sounds about as great as facebook09:46
pwnguinor dice09:46
TheMusoThere is also OpenSkills.09:47
SWATsocial networking 'can' be addictive and 'can' be useful. Unfortunately most people just go bonkers over it09:47
\shSWAT, I don't get spam on linkedin or xing09:47
\shpwnguin, facebook is childrens stuff...linkedin or xing is business09:47
HobbseeSWAT: my myspace page finally got deleted.  that's the only social networking i was doing.09:47
StevenKHurray! Now my eyes won't bleed any more!09:48
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HobbseeStevenK: i can recreate it.09:48
Hobbseeand it was a *lovely* background!09:49
TheMusoOh sure it was.09:49
SWATHobbsee, you said a bad word (myspace)09:49
pwnguinspeaking of lovely colors09:49
HobbseeSWAT: yeah, but you never saw it.09:49
=== StevenK is going anywhere near myspace
HobbseeSWAT: i had a page pretty much saying how myspace is evil.  it was the only reasonable page on the entire myspace09:50
pwnguinyou know what would be neat? a set of filters to the color filter to SIMULATE being colorblind09:50
HobbseeSWAT: to give you an idea of what it looked like, it looked something like this...09:50
Hobbseewith a fridge on it09:50
pwnguinit's one thing to use color filter to make things potentially better for the colorblind09:50
HobbseeSWAT: http://www.klickibunti.org/buntibunti.php09:50
Hobbseepwnguin: i think there is, iirc.09:50
pwnguinHobbsee: not that ive seen09:51
pwnguinjust grayscale09:51
\shI'm blind now09:51
Hobbseeit bothers you less the longer you look at it.09:51
tonyyarussoIt's Hobbsee's MySpace reincarnated!09:51
Hobbseetonyyarusso: that was the original09:52
SWATHobbsee, no brains no headache :)09:52
=== TheMuso ponders responding to the fsck thread on -discuss.
HobbseeSWAT: :)09:53
pwnguinis -discuss worth subscribing to?09:54
TheMusopwnguin: Theres not a lot of traffic if thats what you're worried about.09:54
pwnguinwell lets call it noise:signal09:55
Hobbseethere's very occasionally useful stuff on -discuss09:56
TheMusoThere are some interesting threads on there, not stuff I always find interesting, but yeah the vast majority of what I've seen has been intelligent.09:56
Hobbseebut it's usually on -devel too09:56
TheMusoHobbsee: Not very useful, I agree, but certainly not crap09:56
HobbseeSWAT: i suspect someone reported it.  eventually.  i dont think it would have been good for epileptics09:57
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TheMusoHobbsee: Although seeing one of the latest posts to the list, it seems that people think tha developers will listen to their requests on that list.10:06
HobbseeTheMuso: probably forums users.10:06
HobbseeTheMuso: who are learning that the developers are not on the forums.10:06
TheMusoHobbsee: Oh right, the forums.10:06
RAOFHobbsee: And thank the lord for that.10:06
=== TheMuso used to love forums, but now stays away whereever possible, as they are terribly inifficient.
HobbseeRAOF: indeed.10:07
HobbseeTheMuso: yes, them10:07
TheMusoThe only forum I don't mind visiting is whirlpool.net.au10:07
HobbseeTheMuso: still, the users believe that we're having trouble finding ideas, and so want all of theirs.10:07
RAOFHobbsee: Yes, the "idea pool" forum isn't really functioning usefully.10:08
HobbseeRAOF: it's only ever a place to shove all the requests10:08
TheMusoI'm sure there are many users that say "I shouldn't have to file a bug"10:08
HobbseeRAOF: a black hole would be more effective, though.10:08
HobbseeTheMuso: oh, indeed.10:08
RAOFHobbsee: Even better would be to try and use it to synthesise open source hackers from forum-goers, but that's a low-yield reaction.10:09
HobbseeRAOF: they're trying.10:10
RAOFMaybe if we accelerated them to .99c, and collided them we could collect useful fragments :)10:10
pwnguinwhen i was a novice10:11
pwnguinone thing i liked about gentoo over debian was the forums10:11
RAOFHobbsee: Yeah, there actually seems to be some good stuff in there, along with the n+1 "please break everything by dropping the FHS" threads.10:11
pwnguinirc was quite mean and difficult to pace with10:12
HobbseeRAOF: fhs?10:12
RAOF"Let's put all application files in /Applications"!!!!!11111110:12
pwnguinwhich works, if you have NeXT style fat binaries10:13
RAOFpwnguin: AKA static linking?10:13
pwnguinand brutal requirements on linking10:13
pwnguinRAOF: im not sure. i hear next uses fat binaries, but then theres these frameworks10:14
pwnguinand a heard a developer say on a podcast that apple would require you to not ship different framework versions10:15
TheMusoSO much stuff on OS X is statically linked, its crazy.10:15
RAOFTheMuso: Because they don't have a package manager.10:15
TheMusoRAOF: Yeah, but believe it or not, there are dynamic libs on the system, known as .dylib files.10:15
RAOFDynamic linking *requires* a package manager to be remotely useful.10:15
RAOFTheMuso: Oh, I know.  It's just that each application will ship its own .dylibs, right?10:16
TheMusoRAOF: Either that, or its statically linked. I think.10:16
TheMusoIts a wonder that windows manages, as there is dynamic linking for that.10:16
RAOFAnd shipping it's own libraries is static linking in all but name.10:16
RAOFTheMuso: Windows apps by and large do the same.10:17
TheMusoRAOF: Yeah, but they throw them in windows/system3210:17
RAOFNot all the time.  Also, "dll hell" :)10:17
RAOFTheMuso: Most games, for example, will ship any dlls they rely on in $bin_dir10:18
TheMusoRAOF: I'm guessing thats usually "program files/programname"?10:18
RAOFYeah.  Which is why you end up with 50,000 copies of msvcrt_7.foo.bar lying around.10:19
pwnguinthats not so bad10:19
pwnguinits like 12K10:19
RAOFBasically, thank Debian for the ability to not suck at dynamic linkin.10:19
pwnguinits the 50 copies IN MEMORY that kill10:19
TheMusoLinux does rock in that regard.10:19
TheMusoAnd the funny thing is, other OSs could do it to, given a bit of thought.10:19
pwnguinnot really10:20
pwnguin"you cant ship a new version of that, it'd break our app!"10:20
TheMusopwnguin: If it was done right from the first go, and was given thought, it wouldn.10:20
pwnguinMS bends over backwards to make sure ancient crap runs i hear10:20
RAOFThey could, if you trusted people not to break ABI.  Which you can't, basically.10:21
TheMusoI know it wouldn't work now.10:21
TheMusopwnguin: Which IMO is the biggest problem with Windows.10:21
TheMusoAnd a big security risk.10:21
RAOFTheMuso: If it was done right & was given thought, they'd end up with something very similar to APT, I think :)10:21
TheMusoRAOF: Agreed.10:21
pwnguinvista has something like a software marketplace10:22
TheMusoBut that will never happen now.10:22
pwnguinbut dpkg and debian-policy is what counts, not apt10:22
RAOFpwnguin: True.10:22
pwnguinspeaking of tight integration10:23
pwnguindebian refused a patch i reported10:23
RAOFI'm not sure how much the CLI helps, but that at least allows multiple libraries to be sanely installed.10:23
pwnguinon the grounds that its not a bug in upstream and they refuse to accept workarounds10:23
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=== TheMuso has found two packages that have a file conflict with bash-doc.
pwnguingksudo makes some assumptions about the prompt it seems10:24
pwnguinand pam modules do not10:24
RAOFRight.  So, there's a gksudo bug lying around in there?  Possibly wishlist?10:25
pwnguinlibpam_thinkfinger prompts you at console to scan a finger10:25
pwnguingksudo wraps sudo10:25
pwnguinand displays a popup when you get the Password: prompt im told10:26
RAOFUrgh, really?10:26
pwnguinits been confirmed by upstream10:26
pwnguinin another bug, mvo tried pushing a bit on sudo itself10:26
pwnguinim not sure why10:27
pwnguinbut basically, gdm, gnome-screensaver and gksudo all work differently10:27
pwnguingdm happens to work fine10:27
pwnguinas far as i know10:27
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RAOFAh, so it's kindof a meta-bug?10:28
pwnguinbasically, pam, sudo, and gksudo need to sit down and figure this out10:28
TheMusoUsing a fingerprint reader would be really really handy for lots of sudo work. :)10:29
pwnguinyes and no10:29
pwnguinsudo already has a timeout10:29
pwnguinbut if its not at the keyboard, its almost faster to just type the password10:30
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=== RAOF sighs at -devel-discuss. Can we please not have any option to turn compiz on or off as a part of install?
TheMusoRAOF: Hense my point earlier re users thinking they can make requests via discuss to developers.10:35
=== lifeless is glad not to be on devel-discuss
RAOFTheMuso: Ah, I mised the context.10:36
pwnguinsounds like no, im not missing much on -discuss10:36
=== TheMuso wonders why he decided to subscribe.
RAOFBecause discussion is fun.10:37
TheMusoProbably because I was missing interesting discussions relating to posts to -devel as well as to -devel-discuss from core devs.10:38
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=== TheMuso decides to respond to the fsck thread.
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RAOFAaah, a Gnome user has responded to the compiz thread.10:43
=== ajmitch returns
TheMusoEvening ajmitch.10:44
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ajmitchhi TheMuso10:47
=== ajmitch isn't exactly understanding what that mail about 'predict' is about
TheMusoYou and me both.10:49
ajmitchI'm glad10:49
RAOFI *think* he's complaining that the version number of the package doesn't correspond to the version of his binary.  Why he cares is still a mystery.10:51
=== ajmitch shrugs
RAOFWe should probably bump the version to 3.2.23, just to mess with him.10:54
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=== ajmitch needs to find something to work on
dholbachStevenK: massfile committed to ubuntu-dev-tools - wanna try and file a few unmetdeps bugs? :)11:10
=== RAOF contributes something hopefully useful to -devel-discus
ajmitchif only I had something useful to contribute :)11:16
dholbachtry the massfile script11:18
dholbachthis time it shouldn't even file duplicates11:18
=== ajmitch will need to find out what is uninstallable
dholbachif you run massfile, it will give you a sample instructions file into cwd11:22
dholbachthat has the unmetdeps instructions :)11:22
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ajmitchyes, I may need to change sources.list11:24
dholbachoh, you're still on feisty?11:25
ajmitchbut I have my local debmirror stuff in there\11:25
dholbachah right11:25
dholbachmaybe somebody else should try to use it then; it worked OK for me11:26
ajmitchI should just do it in a chroot again, worked for me in feisty11:26
=== ajmitch hunts for ubuntu-dev-tools
dholbachI uploaded it but it hangs in beta freeze11:27
dholbachit should be in bzr though11:27
ajmitchjust getting the bzr branch11:27
ajmitchbefore my hands freeze up completely11:27
dholbachis it that cold?11:28
ajmitchI have no heater in here11:29
=== ajmitch is making many typos :)
dholbachugh :-/11:29
ajmitchhm, I already had  http://daniel.holba.ch/bzr/massfile/11:30
dholbachyeah, but this does not use email any more11:30
dholbachand it's cleverer not to file dups11:30
ajmitchI'll need the latest package of that?11:30
ajmitchpython-launchpad-bugs is already the newest version.11:31
dholbachrock and roll11:31
=== ajmitch wonders how much hate mail he'll get for massfiling
ajmitchbzr+ssh is so much faster...11:31
ajmitch:0:> ./massfile11:32
ajmitchcp: cannot stat `/usr/share/doc/ubuntu-dev-tools/examples/massfile.instructions': No such file or directory11:32
ajmitchit really expects to be installed, doesn't it?11:32
=== ajmitch builds
=== dholbach adds to todo list
=== ajmitch is going to try & see if he can move the rc bugs page off his hoome box
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ajmitchor at least onto a more memorable url :)11:33
ajmitchhaving a full mirror of main makes making a chroot so much faster as well11:34
ajmitchdholbach: do we need to subscribe motu?11:38
dholbachajmitch: I talked to a mailman person to help us fix the universe-bugs thing, it's still on his todo list :-/11:39
dholbachso for now, I guess we should do it11:39
=== ajmitch whistles
ajmitchneed deb-src lines in chroot :)11:40
ajmitchhow does it file bugs?11:40
dholbachusing pylpbugs11:40
ajmitchyeah, but how does that work? https login?11:40
dholbachah, it uses your lpcookie in ~/.lpcookie :)11:41
ajmitchwhich I don't have11:41
dholbachman ppaput      tells you where to find it11:41
ajmitchall these new things :)11:41
dholbachexcusez-moi :)11:41
ajmitchhah, no man in chroot :)11:41
dholbachah ok, sorry :)11:42
dholbachI can paste it to you, han ong11:42
ajmitchdpkg: considering removing devscripts in favour of ubuntu-dev-tools ...11:42
ajmitchI need newer devscripts, obviously11:42
dholbachah ok, that was because requestsync moved from one to the other11:43
dholbachajmitch: example files bug fixed11:44
ajmitch:0:> wc -l list11:45
ajmitch84 list11:45
ajmitchnot too many11:45
dholbachand some are already filed, I guess11:46
dholbachwhich $arch are you on?11:46
dholbachgreat :)11:46
ajmitchso I won't change the instructions file11:46
dholbachso you can leave it as that :)11:46
ajmitchyay, fail11:46
ajmitch  File "/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/launchpadbugs/html_buglist.py", line 146, in __init__11:46
ajmitch    assert self.baseurl, "Invalid launchpad url %s" %baseurl11:47
ajmitchAssertionError: Invalid launchpad url None11:47
ajmitchwill it matter that I'm in the beta-testers team?11:47
dholbachno, it shouldn't11:47
dholbachwhich URL do you have in the instructions file?11:47
ajmitchthen there's other breakage11:47
ajmitchurl? :)11:48
=== dholbach makes that a bit safer
=== ajmitch sees no usage of an URL in there
dholbachhang on11:49
ajmitchok, just saw the code for it11:49
ajmitchso I need buglist-url11:50
ajmitch<3 bzr11:51
dholbach"ajmitch is now part of the dholbach-beta-testers team."11:51
dholbachhopefully I'll stop embarassing myself soon :)11:51
ajmitchall software has bugs, including those to deal with bugs ;)11:52
dholbachyeah, I think thekorn knows what you mean :)11:52
ajmitchok, running now11:52
ajmitchand it hates my cookie file, I'll just copy it11:53
=== ajmitch retries
=== dholbach hugs super-ajmitch
ajmitchI'm just running scripts, you did all the hard work11:54
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ajmitch1 down...11:54
dholbachnah, I just copied bits and pieces from scripts I had written before :)11:54
dholbachand used thekorn's good work11:54
dholbachwhich bug number is it?11:54
ajmitchbug 14551911:54
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145519 in libapache-filter-perl "[UNMETDEPS]  libapache-filter-perl has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14551911:54
=== TheMuso should see if there are any ppc specific unmet deps, but doubts it.
dholbachTheMuso: that's going to be easy once ajmitch has filed those bugs11:55
ajmitchbug 14552011:55
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145520 in khalkhi "[UNMETDEPS]  libapache-filter-perl has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14552011:55
ajmitchuh oh11:55
dholbachTheMuso: you'll just have to re-generate the 'list' file with packages, then re-run the script on ppc11:55
ajmitchdholbach: your old bug is back!11:55
dholbachinteresting :)11:55
=== ajmitch ctrl-c
dholbachcan you stop the script?11:55
TheMusodholbach: Right.11:55
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=== ajmitch doesn't see anything obviously wrong in the massfile script
ajmitchexcept that config isn't reset to the starting value each time11:58
ajmitchso $pack is no longer there11:59
ajmitchyou could have     config = read_config()11:59
ajmitchin the loop each time, which is ugly11:59
ajmitchor just work on a copy of config each time11:59
dholbachajmitch: hum - the file should not change11:59
dholbachah ARG11:59
dholbachyeah, I know11:59
ajmitchno, the file won't change, but the object will :)11:59
dholbachah, I know how to do it12:00
dholbachI'll compose the strings in file_bug()12:00
ajmitchfor pack in pack_list: # refresh the subject & mailtext read_config() # generate bug report12:00
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ajmitchok, that didn't paste well, but you used to read_config() for every bug12:00
ajmitchyeah, doing it in file_bug will work, it should operate on a copy of config12:01
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ajmitchif it doesn't, pass in config[:] 12:03
=== StevenK appears
ajmitchhello StevenK12:03
=== StevenK waves
dholbachajmitch: pushed - let me know if it makes sense now ;-)12:03
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StevenKconfig is a array, I'm guessing, why would you need to pass in config[:] ?12:05
=== StevenK sighs.
StevenKLet me log on, WoW!12:10
ajmitchpass by ref?12:10
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ajmitchif file_bug is mangling config on every bug and replacing the text that I want to use, it makes it a lot harder to replace next time round12:11
dholbachajmitch: um... string.replace should replace a copy, no?12:12
dholbachajmitch: is it still wrong?12:12
ajmitchtrying to get it to file any bugs now12:12
dholbachit doesn't any more?12:13
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ajmitchif it is, it's doing it rather faster than expected12:13
ajmitch& never printing out "Successfully filed" nor "Bug for '%s' was not filed"12:14
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dholbachfound the bug12:15
ajmitchwhat is it?12:15
dholbachpack -> config["sourcepackage"] 12:15
ajmitchyes, I see it now :)12:17
=== StevenK sighs.
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StevenKWhy WoW 2.2.0 seems to only give me 2 fps.... :-/12:18
ajmitchworks for me12:18
StevenKYes, but that doesn't help me. :-)12:18
ajmitchbug 14552812:18
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145528 in libapache-mod-layout "[UNMETDEPS]  libapache-mod-layout has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14552812:18
ajmitchyay, seems to have the right name & all12:18
dholbachajmitch: THANKS so much12:19
TheMusoStevenK: I think ajmitch is talking about something else.12:19
ajmitchTheMuso: no, I was talking about WoW :)12:19
ajmitchit's still quite playable for me, even on my cheap hardware12:19
TheMusoStevenK: I know that, and I think ajmitch is talking about the bug stuff he's doing with dholbach.12:19
=== ajmitch is talking about both
TheMusoajmitch: Ok, you are talking about the same thing. :)12:19
ajmitchdholbach: it's about the only thing I can do right now12:20
=== dholbach hugs ajmitch
=== ajmitch waits patiently & fades away
=== proppy hugs dholbach
proppysoren: hi12:27
=== dholbach hugs proppy
TheMusoHas anybody thought of working out if packages have file conflicts with each other, other than packages that actually do conflict?12:28
ajmitchTheMuso: yes, lifeless has12:28
TheMusoI wouldn't be surprised if there are a few.12:28
TheMusoajmitch: Ah thats what conflict resolution or whatever its called is for.12:28
ajmitchlast update seems to be in june12:29
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TheMusohmmm ok.12:29
ajmitchI was going to try & process it into something readable, maybe I could do it this weekend12:29
ajmitchbug #14552712:30
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145527 in hello "[UNMETDEPS]  hello has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14552712:30
=== ajmitch chuckles
dholbachtestbug ;)12:30
StevenK% uptime12:34
StevenK 20:35:31 up 40 days,  4:08,  6 users,  load average: 5.69, 4.55, 3.0112:34
StevenKMaybe I get my load average down, WoW would actually perform12:34
ajmitchreboot time?12:34
=== ajmitch should reboot soon
StevenKYeah, but that seems like a Windows solution. :-)12:36
ajmitchit seems like a good idea when there's a security issue on amd64 :)12:36
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StevenKMeh, I have a firewall. :-)12:38
=== ajmitch will get around to rebooting sooner or later
ajmitchso inconvenient though12:39
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ajmitchok, massfile finished12:53
dholbachajmitch: blogged about our TODO list :)12:55
=== ajmitch looks
ajmitchok, rc bugs list not up there12:55
ajmitchprobably a good thing if I want to change url :)12:56
dholbachyou could file them into LP too, we'd just need to modify massfile to read from a csv file12:57
ajmitchproblem si the number of false positives there12:58
ajmitch& it's not a csv file, really :)12:59
dholbachyeah, we'd need to change other bits too :)12:59
ajmitchpython file generates a txt file to be processed12:59
dholbachdon't you think we could try it and try to optimise the process from there? :-)))01:00
dholbachthat way it'd be off your page :)01:00
ajmitchconsidering that I have to update it nightly01:00
ajmitchbased on the latest bug data from debian01:00
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dholbachbut at least the webpage thing would be off your site01:01
ajmitchright, though the webpage isn't terribly large01:01
ajmitchI'd have to get the whole list, file bugs if they weren't already filed, and attach a debian bug task01:02
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dholbachajmitch: in an optimal world, yes :)01:07
ajmitchin a non-optimal world, we get shot down before that happens01:07
dholbachwe could check if a bug is already open, then add a new comment01:10
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StevenKGah. Still slow, after reboot.01:13
StevenKAnd WoW *really really* doesn't like being strace'd01:13
ajmitchI know that they changed the sound code01:14
ajmitchand many people are complaining that it royally sucks01:14
ajmitchbut I still get a reasonable framerate01:14
StevenKAre you using ALSA or OSS?01:14
ajmitchprobably OSS01:15
ajmitchyep, OSS, I'd had a number of problems with alsa01:15
StevenKHow do I switch to OSS?01:16
StevenK(Or check?)01:16
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StevenKDuh, of course01:17
StevenKRight, switched to OSS01:17
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TheMusoOk, seems that there are some unmet deps bugs that are only on amd64, like dasher.01:17
ajmitchthat's usual01:17
ajmitcharch:all vs arch:any01:18
ajmitchamd64 is always treated 2nd best :)01:18
StevenK42 fps01:18
ajmitchmuch better01:18
TheMusoajmitch: Yeah I know, it just means that only people with amd64 can actually resolve those bugs.01:18
StevenKajmitch: $beers_owed++; Thanks01:18
ajmitchStevenK: meh, I doubt I'll see you around to collect them anytime soon :)01:19
ajmitchI don't know if I'll get time away for LCA01:19
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StevenKYeah, I'm not sure either01:23
ajmitchit'd be worth it01:23
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fernandomoin all02:10
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norsettoSilly question of the day: anyone can tell me how to set your @ubuntu.com address?03:40
Hobbseenorsetto: it's to the LP primary address03:41
norsettoHobbsee: ok, so there is no need to do anything?03:41
Hobbseenorsetto: email <lpid>@ubuntu.com and see if it works yet.03:42
norsettoHobbsee: not even changing your gpg keys, etc.?03:42
Hobbseenorsetto: nope03:42
Hobbseenorsetto: although you can add that to your current gpg key if you wish03:42
norsettoHobbsee: ok, good to know :-)03:42
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bddebianHeya gang03:56
fernandohey bddebian03:56
bddebianHello fernando03:56
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norsettoHobbsee: my kitten thanks you VERY MUCH04:48
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Hobbseenorsetto: :D04:49
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Kopfgeldjaegercould a revu reviewer have a little look at my avidemux package? http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=30305:12
whiteanyone familiar with qt by any chance and knows, how I could easily iterate over a QButtonGroup and check the state of each QCheckBox?05:15
Hobbseewhite: try #kde-devel?05:15
HobbseeKopfgeldjaeger: you know that we're in upstream version freeze?05:15
KopfgeldjaegerHobbsee: i do05:18
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: I can give you some comments but, as Hobbsee said, this will be for hardy05:18
Kopfgeldjaegeri know that universe is frozen ;) and stated that 2 times before *g05:19
HobbseeKopfgeldjaeger: oh cool, right :)05:20
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: then why you have feisty in your changelog .....05:20
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Kopfgeldjaegernorsetto: because im running feisty at the moment :-) i do not think that dependencies cant be resolved in gutsy/hardy anymore, but i will check05:21
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norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: you have to change that, and for the time being just make sure that your dependancies are in-line with gutsy and that it builds in a gutsy chroot05:22
Kopfgeldjaegeri now some things are not absolutely correct to upload it (e.g., I am the maintainer, not ubuntu)05:22
Kopfgeldjaegerok, i will05:23
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: which, for the time being, it doesn't :-(05:23
Kopfgeldjaegerdamn. what does fail?05:23
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norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: E: Couldn't find package libsmjs-dev05:24
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Kopfgeldjaegerhmm. i will (try to) resolve that05:24
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: also, you may look into using libsdl1.2-dev now05:25
Kopfgeldjaegerthe old avidemux version cannot be built for gutsy. it also has libsmjd-dev as dependency05:26
Kopfgeldjaegeri think that this is not needed anymore (because the source for this is in avidemux)05:26
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: btw, since there is already an avidemux, this is not a new package, but an update05:28
Kopfgeldjaegerim currently pbuilding it with feisty while reading how to create multiple pbuilders05:29
Kopfgeldjaegernorsetto: its not based on the old package, and there are some things that are not so good in the ATM-package05:29
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: I don't think that matters much for the archivers05:30
Kopfgeldjaegerok. did i something wrong with uploading it to revu? i also firstly thought revu's only for new packages, but $(name here in 2 minutes) told me its not05:31
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: the old one is in multiverse, btw, and you have a GPL in copyright. Was there such a change?05:31
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: no, you did well, but in principle, since there is a package already, you should base your work on that package (with the new tarball of course)05:31
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Kopfgeldjaegerit is GPL! and there are gpl v2 statements in the c/c++ files (but not in the header files)05:32
Kopfgeldjaegeri will check if maybe something is not gpl (codec for example)05:32
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Kopfgeldjaegerlibmjpegtools-dev is in multiverse05:35
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: ok, and that is a depend of avidemux? I can see that most sources are GPL. Two scripts are LGPL .....05:36
Kopfgeldjaegeras liblame-dev is05:36
Kopfgeldjaegerat least it gives avidemux more features (mp3 in case of lame)05:37
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: no, they are not Lesser GPL, but Library GPL :/05:37
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: I think you have a hell of work to do as well to collect all copyrigthers05:39
Kopfgeldjaegerdoesnt sound good :/ i wanted to fill bug reports yesterday (because of missing gpl statements in header files), but the bug tracker crashes when trying to register05:42
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: take it easy, we have quite some months ahead of us :-)05:42
Kopfgeldjaegeryeah :D05:43
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Kopfgeldjaegerdoes build without libsmjs-dev and with libsdl1.2-dev instead of just libsdl-dev (on feisty)05:45
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norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: I must admit I don't understand this link business with avidemux2_gtk and avidemux.05:45
Kopfgeldjaegernorsetto: avidemux does only create the avidemux2_gtk file, and my first try would be just "avidemux"... shall i change it (well, ill just remove the (pre|post)install scripts and change avidemux.desktop05:47
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: if the ELF is avidemux2_gtk, why changing it....05:47
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: just make sure the man page list the right ELF and the .desktop has it05:48
Kopfgeldjaegeri did not write a man page yet05:49
Kopfgeldjaegerand upstream avidemux does not have one05:49
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: np, we have enough time to make one05:50
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Kopfgeldjaegeryes, thats rhight05:50
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: do you install something in /usr/sbin?05:50
Kopfgeldjaegernorsetto: i know05:50
Kopfgeldjaegernorsetto: i changed that yesterday in my local environment, but didnt upload it yet (wanted some more changes, to keep the history a bit concise)05:51
Kopfgeldjaegeri think dh_make added this itself. and i changed the "mkdir -p"  thing in debian/rules, too05:52
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: sure, also, since you are using the dirs file, you should use that for /usr/share/applications and /usr/share/pixmaps and remove the mkdir from rules05:52
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: dh_make is evil ....05:52
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: while you are at it you can also remove the cp from rules and use an install file05:53
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: but if you change the name of the icon I don't think you can05:54
Kopfgeldjaegernorsetto: in the manpage of dh_install its not described how to copy extra files into the package. do you have a word to search for? or just an example :)05:54
Kopfgeldjaeger@icon: this was also my argument against *.install yesterday05:55
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: yes, I don't think you can do that with an install file05:55
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: do you have examples? Because you are using dh_installexamples05:57
Kopfgeldjaegernope, will remove that. and comment out dh_installdocs for now05:57
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: you define CFLAGS but I don't think you are using it05:58
Kopfgeldjaegeryou mean line 17 to 21?05:59
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norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: I'm looking at the diff; usually you pass them to configure with CFLAGS="$(CFLAGS)"06:00
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Kopfgeldjaegeri will replace it with that06:00
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: a couple of easy ones as I have to go (wife is back)06:01
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: Encoding=UTF-8 is deprecated06:01
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: Icon=avidemux.png no need to add the extension06:02
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: Categories=AudioVideo need to add a final ;06:02
Kopfgeldjaegerfixed in local version06:02
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: Comment=A Simple Visual Video Editor should be changed to imperative (like, Edit your Videos)06:03
proppysoren: ping06:04
sorenproppy: pong06:04
Kopfgeldjaegeri'll also add the german translation with *[de] 06:04
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: can you add an homepage entry to the description in control?06:07
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: a watch file could be nice to have too06:07
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: the Maintainer field also need to be changed06:08
Kopfgeldjaegeri do not think that would really work @watch-file, the files are mirrored on berlios and sf and are labeled unusually (avidemux-2.4-preview1.tar.gz for example)06:09
proppysoren: I thought about what you told me yesterday06:11
proppysoren: about the autoconf bloat vs a simple Makefile project06:11
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: it may need some work then06:12
proppysoren: I checked against the upstream Makefile, but it lacks an install: target06:12
proppysoren: Is it fine to add it in a cdbs patch ?06:12
sorenproppy: It's much easier to just install it directly from debian/rules06:14
proppysoren: the upstream also lacks ChangeLog and News file06:16
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: btw, you do have a manpage already, its just a matter of installing it06:16
proppysoren: directly override the install rules and cpying by hand ? or using dh_install and .install file06:16
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: no wait, you commented that out06:16
Kopfgeldjaegeryoure right, shame on me06:16
proppysoren: I see06:16
ScottKnorsetto: Why was the old one in Multiverse?06:16
sorenproppy: Alright.06:17
norsettoscottk: dependancies06:17
sorenproppy: You might want to look at the post-install stuff in the cdbs docs.06:17
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Kopfgeldjaegerhm, do i have to tell dh_installman where the file is?06:18
ScottKnorsetto: I was scrolled back and didn't realize it.  Sorry for the noise.06:18
proppysoren: ok thanks06:18
norsettoscottk: don't be sorry, I'm glad you check it out too06:19
norsettoScottK: btw, do you know if I have to do something to activate my ubuntu.com address? It seems it is not working yet06:22
ScottKnorsetto: I had to go bug someone, but I don't recall who.06:23
ScottKIIRC I did it with a LP question.06:23
norsettoScottK: ok, maybe they know in #launchpad06:23
Hobbseenorsetto: how long since you became a member?06:23
norsettoHobbsee: good question, I actually don't know, let me check06:24
norsettoHobbsee: 21/906:25
proppysoren: thanks for the hint06:25
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Hobbseenorsetto: if you get my email, give me a yell06:25
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Hobbseeok, it got rejected06:26
Hobbseenorsetto: iirc, the email is somewhat botched.06:26
norsettoHobbsee: ok, let me ask in #launchpad (hoping there is somebody alive there)06:29
Kopfgeldjaegerbuilds without problems in gutsy, i will try to get dh_installman working and then upload it06:30
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simuhello, trying to print with a laserjet using the recommended ppd driver but the printer doenst print and cups doesnt show an error06:32
Kopfgeldjaegersimu: better try #ubuntu06:32
ubotuthe official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org06:32
simuusing pxlmono works so far that some garbage comes out of the printer06:32
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simubut sing the reccomended drivers nothing happens06:33
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LaserJockdholbach: ping06:35
dholbachLaserJock: in the CC meeting atm06:35
dholbachLaserJock: can you PM me, so I get back to you later on?06:35
LaserJockdholbach: yep06:36
bddebianHeya LaserJock06:37
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norsettoLaserJock: hi .... was that email real or a laserjoke?06:48
LaserJocknorsetto: real06:49
LaserJocknorsetto: please reply ASAP ;-)06:49
norsettoLaserJock: oh :-(06:49
LaserJocknorsetto: you don't want to do it?06:50
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norsettoLaserJock: its just that I must be the most boring person here ....06:51
LaserJocknorsetto: no way, you've got such and interesting story06:51
norsettoLaserJock: wait, I need to copy this and show it to my wife06:52
bddebiannorsetto: Nope, that'd be me :)06:52
bddebianStevenK: You still around?06:52
norsettobddebian: boring de debian ;-)06:53
bddebianExactly :-)06:53
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Kopfgeldjaegernorsetto: so, just uploaded it to REVU. the manpage is now added correctly07:05
norsettoKopfgeldjaeger: cool07:05
StevenKbddebian: Not for long07:06
bddebianStevenK: Just a quickie.  libapache-asp-perl also depends libapache-ssi-perl but apache2 has mod_include.  Totally different?07:07
StevenKNot sure.07:07
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mertikiHi, I created a source package for Gnucash 2.2.1 based on the Debian one to fix the bug #129759 and wanted to see if my work has any chances to be OK for Gutsy07:26
ubotuLaunchpad bug 129759 in gnucash "new upstream release 2.2.0" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12975907:26
mertikiI came speaking about it here because I know that the final Gutsy release is in few weeks07:27
mertikiAnd if Gnucash isn't upgraded to version 2.2.1, there's risks that people will have incompatible gnucash files with the future releases07:28
mertikiDoes anyone can look at this?07:29
Hobbseeplease follow the instructions at !uvf07:29
ubotuuvf is Upstream Version Freeze.  For an exception, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-9523bc4076ff011324d67cddc97969ec609618d607:29
mertikiHobbsee : thanks, I will07:29
zulyou might or might not get one though07:30
mertikiHobbsee : I wasn't sure that I should use this method because I'm not the actual maintainer of the package07:30
Hobbseeit's group maintainership07:30
mertikiof course, because it's late in the Gutsy development phase07:30
mertikiOk good, thanks for these informations07:31
Hobbseethen your chances are somewhat slim07:31
mertikiat worst, it will be for Gutsy + 107:31
ScottKmertiki: 2.2.1 is in Debian, so it's possible.  I'd do the UVFe if you think it's important.07:45
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mertikiScottK : I just did a Debian merged package, I just had to fix two little things, and I use the 2.2.1 version now, it's stable and all working07:46
ScottKmertiki: Then include the debdiff from the debian version in your UVFe.  That'll improve your chances signficantly.07:47
mertikiScottK : When doing a UVF, it's asked to provide diffstats for the tarballs, should I do a diffstats of the orig.tar.gz AND the diff.gz tarballs?07:47
ScottKJust the orig.tar.gz07:47
mertikiOK, so I attach diffstats and debdiff?07:47
ScottKchangelog diff07:48
ScottKbuild log07:48
ScottKinstall log07:48
ScottKAll the stuff that's in the link Hobsee gave you.07:48
ScottKPlus the debdiff since you have that.07:48
mertikiScottK : Ok, one last question, it's specified that the needed changelog aren't the debian/changelog one, so where do I find the needed changelogs?07:50
ScottKIt's the upstream changelog.07:50
ScottKOften called CHANGES07:50
ScottKIn the orig.tar.gz07:50
mertikiScottK : Okay, I understand! I wasn't totally sure, thanks07:51
ScottKNo problem.07:51
mertikiScottK : It will take some time before I add the needed files to the bug report because it's the first time that I provide these files and I want to do a good job07:52
ScottKDon't forget to subscribe motu-uvf to the bug when you are done.07:52
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mertikiScottK : I won't forget :)07:53
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Kopfgeldjaegeris there a (not thaaaat big) application that needs packaging and i could try my luck on?07:59
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bddebianla la la la08:23
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sorenbddebian: hear head08:25
sorenhear hear, even.08:25
soren"hear head"... gah...08:25
ScottKWell I got my package I made last night uploaded to Debian.08:26
sorenWhich one was that?08:27
ScottK1 hour to make the package and ~30 minutes with a DD to get it reviewed and uploaded.  Who says it's hard to get stuff into Debian?08:27
sorenI do.08:27
sorenWell, gotta run.08:27
ScottKsoren: http://ftp-master.debian.org/~ajt/new/pysubnettree_0.1-1_i386.html08:27
bddebiangads this apache and perl shit is confusing08:29
ScottKAhh. MY EYES!08:30
ScottKApache and Perl in the same line.  Arghh!!!08:30
DktrKranzblueyed, around?08:33
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geserbddebian: cleaning up the apache modules?08:34
bddebiangeser: Trying but making an idiot out of myself in the process as usual :-(08:35
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ScottKBut also getting it cleaned up too.  Keep at it.08:36
enycwidelands build-11 would be nice in gutsy but its a bit late now I think ;-)08:40
blueyedyes, DktrKranz.08:41
DktrKranzblueyed, any news on bug 135695 ?08:41
ubotuLaunchpad bug 135695 in php-interbase "FTBFS: depends on php4-dev, which has been removed" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13569508:41
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bddebianThat's an ugly bug08:42
bddebianI was looking at that last night08:42
blueyedHave you tested the debdiff, DktrKranz?08:42
DktrKranznot yet, but since I was after a similar bug (bug 110637), I would like to mark mine as dupe08:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 110637 in php-interbase "php5-interbase missing in feisty" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11063708:43
DktrKranzbddebian, that package requires *a lot* of love08:43
DktrKranz(or firebird in main...)08:44
blueyedCan you test the debdiff, please?08:44
DktrKranzblueyed, sure08:44
DktrKranzit's huge, so it has to be reviewed carefully08:44
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DktrKranzbut, at a first look, it seems identical to a package I uploaded to REVU some time ago08:45
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blueyedA new package?08:46
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blueyedAnyway, the most differences are because of removal of the php4 files.08:46
blueyedI'll subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors, ok?08:46
bddebianI still don't get why we are keeping it just for packages broken with the php-interbase from PHP508:46
blueyedWould be great, if you could test and confirm the bug, DktrKranz.08:47
Kopfgeldjaegershould i just create a patch to change some little things in the avidemux (upstream) manpage or should i copy it to under debian/ and edit that file?08:47
DktrKranzbddebian, B-D on a software in universe, doesn't fit good with PHP in main08:47
bddebianDktrKranz: That doesn't make it any less stupid to me :)08:47
blueyedbddebian: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php-interbase/+bug/135716/comments/108:48
DktrKranzwell, it has a rdepends, so we can't just drop it08:48
ubotuLaunchpad bug 135716 in php-interbase "Please remove php-interbase from Gutsy" [Undecided,Invalid] 08:48
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ScottKKopfgeldjaeger: Make a patch with a debdiff.08:57
KopfgeldjaegerScottK: what do you mean with debdiff? i do not want to patch the now-in-the-repos version, im creating a new package (for hardy)08:58
ScottKKopfgeldjaeger: Are you wanting to change the current package with the same upstream version or package a new upstream version?08:59
ScottKFor the former, a debdiff is what you want.09:00
ScottKFor that latter, add the patch and then upload to REVU.09:00
KopfgeldjaegerScottK: new upstream version (im working with the svn version, but i think till hardy a new version will be out)09:00
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ScottKOK.  Then once you have it ready, upload it to REVU.09:01
Kopfgeldjaegeri already uploaded it to REVU. so, just create the patch for the manpage and handle this as you usually do... hum, i will need a manual. ;)09:01
Kopfgeldjaegerdo you have a link that describes how to use patches (with debhelper)? i cant find anything :/09:06
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ScottKKopfgeldjaeger: Look on the Ubuntu wiki in the MOTU School pages.  There's one there.09:07
Kopfgeldjaegeraah :-)09:08
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Kopfgeldjaegeris it bad style to just call "patch -FoObAr < debian/patches/001_fix_raboff.patch" in debian/rules ?09:16
geserwhy not use a patch system?09:17
geserif you do it manually don't forget to undo the patching in the clean target09:17
Kopfgeldjaegeri do not really look through it yet...09:17
Kopfgeldjaegerit's just a 2 lines patch (ok, as patch it maybe would be 5 lines or so)09:18
DktrKranzblueyed, debdiff seems good. I post a comment on the bug09:20
geserKopfgeldjaeger: what about not using patch, and patching the file directly and using the file in /debian/patches for documentation only?09:27
geserthis way you don't have the problem with patch/unpatch09:28
ScottKSomeone who cares may want to look into an evolution-python UVFe.  I new version was just uploaded to Debian.09:28
Kopfgeldjaegergeser: so, do the change outside of debian/ ?09:30
geseryes, it's not forbidden09:31
geserif the package doesn't use a patch system and the change is small patch directly is an option09:31
Kopfgeldjaegerok, i will do it this way.09:32
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pkernsoren: ping09:50
ScottKI'll be AFK from now until Sunday night, so have a nice rest of your week everyone.09:51
_MMA_You to Scott.09:52
geserScottK: did you upload websvn or was it synced?09:53
ScottKIt was a sync that I did.09:53
ScottKI uploaded it after using syncpackage.09:54
ScottKDid I mess up?09:54
geserno, I only filed a bug for it, bug #13998509:54
ubotuLaunchpad bug 139985 in websvn "[Sync request]  Sync websvn (1.61-23) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13998509:54
ScottKBah.  Sorry about that.09:54
geserare we now supposed to use syncpackage to sync a package09:55
ScottKNot really most of the time.09:55
ScottKI probably shouldn't have.09:55
ScottKThere's an issue if an orig.tar.gz is in a PPA where you have to, but other than that, no.09:55
ScottKGotta run.09:55
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geserScottK: have fun09:56
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pkernsoren: What I wanted to say everytime I pinged you: I could also subscribe u-u-s if you don't have time, no problem.10:23
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ajmitchgood morning10:43
geserHi ajmitch10:44
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norsettoajmitch: hi10:55
norsettogeser: hi 2 u too :-)10:56
gesernorsetto: Hi10:56
norsettoanyone has any idea where this libcairo2 version can come from? 1.4.10-1turner3~feisty0.110:57
DktrKranznorsetto, where is it?10:58
norsettoDktrKranz: yes, thats the question :-)10:58
DktrKranzah, I imagined it was on LP somewhere10:59
DktrKranzanyway, ask apt-cache policy10:59
DktrKranz(if you got it through updates, of course)10:59
norsettoDktrKranz: I don't think its from an ubuntu repository, thats why I'm asking (can't find it in archive.ubuntu.com)11:00
geserhave you some 3rd-party repos?11:00
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norsettogeser: no, its not a problem of mine, its bug 14578611:01
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145786 in gtk+2.0 "libgtk2.0-dev needs dependencies fails to install" [Medium,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14578611:01
DktrKranz"3rd-party repos", I'm starting to hate that. on italian forums some people completely destroyed python infrastructure for these kind of NON-repositories11:01
norsettoin the changelog is this: Matti Lindell <mlind@cs.joensuu.fi>11:02
norsettoapparently is some kind of font fix ......11:02
pwnguinDktrKranz: maybe someone should write a "how to use open source" within the context of ubuntu and put it as part of Examples11:03
pwnguinor rather, record11:03
norsettohere is the archive: http://myy.helia.fi/~karte/feisty-font-fix/11:03
DktrKranznorsetto, you are quicker than me :)11:04
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DktrKranzjust for a couple of seconds...11:04
norsettoDktrKranz: indeed he has these at the end of his sources.lst ......11:04
norsettoDktrKranz: oh well, anybody wants the pleasure to answer to that bug report :-)11:05
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gesernorsetto: seb128 already did11:06
DktrKranzand, please, gift him with a huge, red poster saying "use 3rd-party repos at your own risk"11:06
geserDktrKranz: that was already tried with a wallpaper11:07
DktrKranzwho should I bother to have it on a default installation?11:08
DktrKranzto have it shown by default11:08
geserthe story was: there was an infamous list of 3rd party repos and someone who ended on this list put a package inside his repo which overwrote the wallpaper for everybody installing his package11:10
gesersoon some people complained about it and tried to get him out of the Ubuntu community11:10
Kopfgeldjaegerso, uploaded new revision of avidemux... http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=312 feel free to test ;) for me, it builds without problems on feisty and gutsy11:14
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pwnguinhmm. it'd be neat if zoom triggered an xrandr setting11:19
pwnguinso things like pdf rerender at high res11:19
norsettogeser: hmmm, he is not by any chance portoguese?11:23
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norsettoDktrKranz: he, that was a nice solution you found for bug 14558411:24
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145584 in gambas2 "[UNMETDEPS]  gambas2 has unmet dependencies" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14558411:24
DktrKranznorsetto, I asked a user if it was supported in other archs11:25
DktrKranzhe told me not, so I dropped them completely11:25
DktrKranzas much as gambas 1 did11:25
DktrKranzporting to other architecture is targeted in gambas 3, so it could be ok for now11:26
norsettoDktrKranz: thats what they say in their home page about 64 bits: Gambas cannot work with 64 bits pointers at the moment..11:31
DktrKranzbut they should have said "Gambas cannot work with nothing than a i386 dusty box"11:31
DktrKranzsince debian ftbfs too...11:32
norsettoajmitch: looks acceptable to me, what do you think?11:33
norsettoDktrKranz: even though we could spare the doc package :-)11:34
DktrKranznorsetto, let me see...11:34
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DktrKranznorsetto, it does not depends on other packages, but it looks strange to me have gambas2-doc on all ports without no binary packages available11:35
norsettoDktrKranz: it depends on what is in the rules, most probably they have a binary-indep target which is specific to that package11:36
DktrKranzno deps at all: http://packages.ubuntu.com/gutsy/doc/gambas2-doc11:37
norsettoDktrKranz: beside, I could want (I'm strange, I know) to install it on my system just to read the docs11:37
DktrKranzIf you think so, it's quite easy to revert the change :)11:39
norsettoDktrKranz: and we really don't save any compilation btw, is architecture: all11:39
DktrKranzanyway, it looks weird to me, but I am surely wrok11:39
DktrKranzyep, it will be compiled using the same buildd :)11:39
DktrKranzlooking at lintian...11:39
DktrKranzno, it doesn't report "too big for a binary target" error11:41
DktrKranz(or similar, I don't remember the exact error...)11:41
norsettoDktrKranz: here is the complete list of lintian tags: http://lintian.debian.org/reports/tags.html11:49
TheMusoHey folks.11:51
DktrKranznorsetto, is this a full list or simply the ones recorded in debian packages? I'm unable to find that error...11:51
norsettoDktrKranz: perhaps is only for current debian packages11:51
DktrKranznp, I'm going to dig lintian to find it11:52
DktrKranznorsetto, found: "arch-dep-package-has-big-usr-share"11:55
norsettoDktrKranz: never seen that before ... what is the expanded version?11:55
DktrKranznorsetto, http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/483/11:56
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norsettoDktrKranz: ok, so its in line with our discussion11:58
DktrKranzI was worried not to issue that warning (an error, actually...)12:00
DktrKranzand it didn't12:00
RAOFMorning TheMuso12:00
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blueyedDo you expect "apt-get build-dep foo" to also do an "upgrade"?12:15
crimsunno, and it shouldn't unless there are actually updated binary packages since last time update was executed12:15
blueyedyes, there new/upgradable packages, of course. It does not matter, if I run apt-get update just before.12:19
blueyedcrimsun: see http://pastebin.com/m245fed6012:19
blueyedThis is annoying, because it causes apt-build to fail, when installing build dependencies.12:20
blueyed(and is confusing anyway IMHO)12:20
blueyedI'm about to file about it. Does this sound reasonable?12:27
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crimsunit's related to debian 35873012:31
ubotuDebian bug 358730 in apt-build "apt-build: Builds anyway if builddeps aren't satisfied" [Important,Open]  http://bugs.debian.org/35873012:31
crimsunyou may wish to add commentary there12:31
proppysomeone know a package using makefile.mk cdbs rules ?12:34
crimsunproppy: apg12:35
proppyHope it will help me to figure out why I get dpkg-genchanges: failure: cannot read files list file: No such file or directory12:36

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