=== Nightrose [n=lydia@amarok/rokymotion/nightrose] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jml [n=jml@ppp121-44-213-76.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === cprov [n=cprov@canonical/launchpad/cprov] has joined #ubuntu-motu === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === imbrandon [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-motu === pkern [n=pkern@debian/developer/pkern] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:10] ScottK: RCPT TO: [01:10] ScottK: Oops. \: [01:10] ScottK: http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/09/26/how-to-install-vmware-server-on-ubuntu-710/ === bigon [n=bigon@ubuntu/member/bigon] has joined #ubuntu-motu === albert23 [n=albert@86.81.99.204] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-motu === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-117-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jml [n=jml@203-113-250-169-static.TAS.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jml [n=jml@203-113-250-169-static.TAS.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=chuck@mail.edgewater.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === khermans [i=khermans@nat/cisco/x-6f260e9d26637c5e] has joined #ubuntu-motu === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _czessi [n=Czessi@dslb-088-073-009-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RobinD_ [n=robind@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mwolson [i=mwolson@host-212-116.inlacol.clients.pavlovmedia.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === gnomefreak [n=gnomefre@ubuntu/member/gnomefreak] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul_ [n=chuck@mail.edgewater.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zul [n=ubuntu@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bsnider [n=brandon@bas7-ottawa23-1088834056.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:39] when exactly is gutsy beta 1 being released? is it laster tonight or some time tomorrow? [02:41] They will release it as soon as you leave town for a week ;-) [02:41] bsnider: thursday or friday UTC [02:41] Away from the internets [02:41] how stable is it right now? [02:42] bsnider: its not hence the work alpha/beta [02:42] s/work/word [02:42] its more stable than the tribes before now [02:43] the livecd seemed ok as of a couple of days ago [02:43] I haven't seen an announce for it yet. [02:51] moins [02:52] Hey imbrandon. === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-175-179.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Toadstool [n=jcorbier@cl-266.bru-01.be.sixxs.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:55] Heya gang === pfein_ [n=pfein@41.sub-75-194-43.myvzw.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === effie_jayx [n=valles@ubuntu/member/effie-jayx] has joined #ubuntu-motu === apachelogger__ [n=me@N929P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:08] heya bddebian. [03:08] Hi ScottK === eck [n=foo@unaffiliated/eck] has joined #ubuntu-motu === freeflying [n=freeflyi@211.94.35.200] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jwendell [n=wendell@ubuntu/member/wendell] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:22] Frick', I'm so demotivated === StevenK rips bddebian a new one. [03:22] Does that help? === Amaranth_ [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Frogzoo [n=Frogzoo@202.155.165.25] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:35] StevenK: Sure, thanks :-) [03:35] StevenK: Now, how to get me a brain? === leonel [n=leonel@189.155.127.50] has joined #ubuntu-motu === StevenK has a flashback to the Wizard of Oz === jml_ [n=jml@ppp108-61.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:46] Why Wizard of Oz? "If I only had a brain.." type of thing? [03:47] bddebian: Yes. [03:47] Heh [03:47] Oh, did you have any luck with the libapache-asp-foo thing last night? [03:55] I stopped looking. I was going to dig again this afternoon. [03:55] It's still in my todo list. === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === meteorman [n=hardy@206.183.116.1] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:02] anyone see me? [04:03] <_MMA_> no === Zenton [n=vicente@212.166.192.134] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:04] oh, good, thought the cloaking device stopped functiong.. [04:04] lol [04:06] so, does everyone here have private chats going? === meteorman [n=hardy@206.183.116.1] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [04:08] impatient [04:09] hello jml [04:09] ajmitch: hi ho === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:10] ajmitch: ! [04:12] bddebian: yes? === Pici [n=Pici@unaffiliated/pici] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:18] ajmitch: Just an enthusiastic Hi :-) [04:20] ok [04:20] hello === pfein_ [n=pfein@41.sub-75-194-43.myvzw.com] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Konversation] === Whoopie_ [n=Whoopie@unaffiliated/whoopie] has joined #ubuntu-motu === asantoni [n=alb@CPE00095be80fce-CM001868e2c60e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === effie_jayx [n=valles@ubuntu/member/effie-jayx] has joined #ubuntu-motu === EliasAmaral [n=dark@unaffiliated/EliasAmaral] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:34] ajmitch: SHould Bug #104616 be fix released? You said you uploaded it to debian but I don't see any updates in Debian or Ubuntu [04:34] Launchpad bug 104616 in gnue-appserver "[apport] gnue-appserver crashed with ImportError in ()" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/104616 === zakame [i=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-motu === ogra1 [n=ogra@p548AC093.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mdomsch [n=mdomsch@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === jml [n=jml@ppp108-61.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === mayeco [n=mayeco@201.218.105.31] has joined #ubuntu-motu === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:04] Gah, who the hell keeps marking all these bugs as Fix Comitted when they aren't.. [05:05] bddebian: Any in particular? Tracker seems to be a mass of "fix comitted, because it's fixed in SVN" bugs. [05:05] committed isnt released [05:05] The fixes are not committed if it's not in the repos afai am concerned [05:05] but id always figured it meant fix uploaded [05:06] Right [05:06] repos? [05:06] if its apt-gettable its released [05:06] Yes, that's my understanign of what it means too. [05:06] Ubuntu repositories. If its in svn but not Ubuntu it ain't fix committed to me [05:06] IMO fix released means built successfully, but it seems others think otherwise, i.e when using a bug number in a changelog. [05:07] Well that's a whole different issue :-) [05:07] causes a bug to have a fix released change. [05:09] OMFG I give up [05:09] bddebian: if it's any consolation, I don't think anyone likes that fix comitted meaning. === cprov [n=cprov@canonical/launchpad/cprov] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:10] It was fine when it meant it was uploaded to Ubuntu. I don't know who keeps moving the meanings of everything anymore [05:12] AFAIK, that usage is actively incorrect, and it doesn't mean what the changer thinks it means. [05:12] i thought lp autoupdated that stuff [05:12] Like "inconcievable" [05:12] what? [05:12] i guess [05:12] [05:15] RAOF: :-) [05:16] RAOF: did laserjock ask you for an interview right after you joined too? [05:16] Amaranth: No, he hasn't. Not yet, at least. === RAOF considers filling bigon's RFP for libgnome-keyring-cil [05:16] RAOF: huh [05:16] Amaranth: You're just special. === ajmitch hasn't been asked [05:16] Now that is surprising [05:17] Amaranth: Possibly as the person most likely to be thought to be already a MOTU. === TheMuso hasn't been asked either. === TheMuso remembers when he fronted the tech board to become a MOTU, and Amaranth thought I was already a MOTU. [05:18] .au & .nz just aren't interesting, apparently. [05:18] TheMuso: Hey, that reminds me, you're an a11y guy, right? === bddebian shouldn't be one [05:18] bddebian: Shush! [05:19] Amaranth: Yes indeed. If I am not mistaken, you dropped into #orca on gimpnet the other day did you not? [05:20] TheMuso: I did [05:20] TheMuso: I need to make compiz talk [05:20] Amaranth: As in the window manager part of things? [05:21] TheMuso: apparently just using pango is not enough and i really don't want to subclass atk [05:21] Amaranth: The only thing I can suggest is to see how metacity does it. [05:21] TheMuso: alt-tab and such [05:21] TheMuso: I think they use a GtkLabel [05:21] Amaranth: Well unfortunately I am not entirely up on how the infrastructure works within GNOME. [05:21] I am more an integration/end-user perspecitve person at this point. [05:21] We use pango, snag the cairo context from pango, render it into a texture, and paint that on the screen [05:22] TheMuso: does orca crash and take the app it's speaking with it on gutsy for you too? :) [05:22] well, not crash, freeze [05:22] Amaranth: Occasionally, yes. This is with metacity. [05:22] Does it every 5-15 minutes here [05:23] killing orca unfreezes the app [05:23] Yep, same here. [05:23] I don't think it happens that often for me, but it does happen. [05:24] Usually close to the beginning of my session. Once its been started another time, it doesn't usually happen till I next log out/in. [05:24] And today at least, its only been once, and that was early this morning. My session has been running for almost 5 hours now. [05:25] Yay, Amaranth might fix my bug [05:25] it's funny, everyone always complains about metacity's code [05:25] Amaranth: Is it a metacity problem? [05:25] no no [05:25] i just like reading metacity's code [05:25] well, the recent additions to it, anyway [05:26] right [05:26] I've never tried compiz + orca actually. [05:26] the core window management stuff is a mess, the alt-tab popup, window placement algorithm, edge detection, etc code is all very nice and easy to follow [05:26] The window titles/alt tab doesn't speak more than likely however. [05:26] TheMuso: window titles are fine, that's libmetacity [05:26] Amaranth: Right. === Knightlust [n=dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:27] Amaranth: As it is, it would be nice to actually get this fixed at some point, as Orca may end up using the new ezoom plugin that was done as a soc project. [05:27] at some point in the future. [05:27] for magnification. [05:28] right metacity uses a GtkLabel and pulls the Atk context out of it to do further tweaking === Amaranth cries === StevenK kills Kmos. [05:28] i wonder if i can fake it [05:28] put a GtkLabel somewhere invisible [05:31] StevenK: why would you do that? [05:31] Amaranth: Does compiz already link against libgtk? Because adding a GtkLabel would make you grow one. [05:31] Amaranth: I gather that thats a bad way to code it? [05:31] StevenK: gtk-window-decorator draws the switcher [05:31] Amaranth: as in what you said about what metacity does [05:31] TheMuso: indeed [05:32] ajmitch: We are just about to release beta, and he privately mailed me asking me to put the RC of gimp in. [05:32] ah, why would he mail you? [05:32] Amaranth: Ah, that's alright then. [05:32] that's just a bit mad [05:32] ajmitch: Because I did the upload of rc1 [05:32] Amaranth: fun. [05:33] he was promising someone in here earlier that the final release of the gimp would make it into gutsy [05:33] uh, ha? [05:33] Heh [05:33] Really? [05:33] 08:40 < so1> will gimp stay at rc2 or will it be updated when the final will be released? [05:33] That's very interesting, because I don't think it will. [05:33] I think kmos has ruffled the feathers of all who are present. :) [05:33] 08:53 < Kmos> so1: it will be updated [05:33] 08:54 < Kmos> until gutsy final version [05:33] 08:54 < Kmos> i'm pretty sure =) [05:34] TheMuso: nah, he couldn't do that :) [05:34] 09:08 < ScottK> so1: Just in case you can't tell, Kmos really has no idea if it'll be updated or not. Neither do I. [05:34] ajmitch: Oh I forgot, of course he couldn't. He reads all docs and processes, and follows the rules. :) === StevenK will ask seb128 about rc3 when he surfaces. [05:35] heh [05:36] Ruffled feathers is a VERY mild way of putting it. [05:37] can probably get another release of gimp in, along with the general desktop exception for 2.20.1 [05:38] but if the final isn't out when gnome 2.20.1 is... [05:38] Amaranth: That's what I'm guessing - I'm happy to jump to rc3 if seb128 is okay with it [05:45] Speaking of GIMP, I'd like a 2nd opinion on if I was correct to attribute this bug to gimp-python? [05:45] Bug 145376 [05:45] Launchpad bug 145376 in gimp "[apport] sphere.py crashed with ImportError in ()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145376 [05:50] Oh lovely. Examining a package from the rc bugs list, which generates its debian/packagename.install file at build time. [05:52] Lucky you :-) [05:54] Oh yeah. === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === radamantis [n=radamant@201.137.25.241] has joined #ubuntu-motu === XSource [n=XSource@41.201.243.2] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:12] ScottK: You might want to take a look at codespeak-lib on the rc bugs list. The Debian bug is resolved by commenting out a command that seems to work on i386, but not on ppc, and the builds reflect that for the Ubuntu version. I'm wondering if the issue can be fixed a better way... [06:12] I could apply the fix from Debian, but it doesn't seem logical to me, commenting out something that clearly includes useful material in the package. [06:18] Can you make the call arch specific? [06:23] ScottK: Yes, I was thinking of that, but thought a better solution may be possible, and since as far as I know, you are good with python, I'd thought I would ask you. [06:24] TheMuso: I didn't realize it was python from the name. [06:24] Is there any *particular* reason we have a clearlooks-engine package, last touched in hoary, in Universe? [06:25] No one cared enough to write the removal bug? [06:25] ScottK: Yeah it creates a python- binary package name. [06:25] Is it hurting anything? [06:25] TheMuso: Is codespeak-lib the source package name then? [06:25] ScottK: Not really, as far as I can tell. [06:27] Gnight folks [06:27] RAOF: I can't find that [06:28] Amaranth: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clearlooks-engine/ [06:29] RAOF: apparently it doesn't (never) built? [06:29] ScottK: yes [06:29] Amaranth: No, builds successfully on all but lpia according to LP [06:31] RAOF: but the binary was overrided by the gtk2-engines source package [06:31] Yes. [06:31] so there is no binary package for clearlooks-engine in Ubuntu [06:31] No wonder no one noticed it :P [06:32] Sounds like a good candidate for removal then. [06:32] TheMuso: I'll have a look in a minute. [06:33] Yeah. Filing the removal bug now. [06:34] In fact, it's doubly obsolete; there was a clearlooks package, too, that got removed in dapper. [06:35] wow [06:35] ScottK: No hurry, but I thought you may be able to work out a better solution. [06:36] It's after midnight here. I'll look at it tonight if I get this package I'm working on done before I run out of steam. Otherwise I'll probably forget. === porthose [n=charliej@67.60.186.55] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:38] ScottK: It only FTBFS on powerpc, for the reason I explained above, so if not, I just might make it arch specific on top of how it was fixed in Debian. [06:44] Theq [06:44] TheMuso: Have a look at Debian bug 439400. Is it worth it? [06:44] Debian bug 439400 in wnpp "RFA: codespeak-lib -- The pylib library containing py.test, greenlets and other niceties" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/439400 === jml_ [n=jml@ppp108-61.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:45] ScottK: Thats the bug I was referring to... [06:45] The request for adoption? [06:46] ScottK: Well it FTBFS on powerpc only, and since I have that arch, I can look at it. [06:46] I didn't see that. === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:46] Is it a package you are interested in generally? [06:46] Maybe you want to adopt it? === Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie [06:47] ScottK: No, I was just going through the rc list. [06:47] OK [06:48] Meh probably worth leaving it. It will be synced next cycle, and only ppc misses out. === perher [n=per@c-51f872d5.1316-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:50] TheMuso: WIthout the details of what it died on in the build (which aren't in the bug), there's really no way for me to come up with a better solution. [06:51] ScottK: As I said, it will be synced next cycle. === TheMuso moves on. [06:56] I made a new package, built, tested it and added it to the Debian Python Modules Team repo for sponsorship in an hour. That's kind of cool. [06:56] he says to himself idly ... === RAOF thinks that's cool. [06:58] Is it just me, or is the rc bugs list not showing comments fields for all packages? [07:00] It's a python datatype for CIDR matching. Which, if you need to do CIDR matching seem like it would be handy. === hoora [i=hoora@gateway/tor/x-17b6802899165f5d] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:00] TheMuso: If it's got a comment field under Serious, it won't have it again under Grave if it's in both. === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:00] ah ok [07:01] If that's what you are seeing, I believe it's by design. [07:02] due to incompetence of author [07:03] ajmitch: It makes sense actually. [07:04] I've had requests to change it to comments per bug [07:06] ajmitch: I can understand people's thoughts on that, but still seems fine to me now I know how its set up. [07:07] what needs fixed on it? [07:07] ajmitch: If you were going to change it, I'd put the grave bugs at the top so comments go next to those. [07:09] StevenK: If you are going to look at updating GIMP, I'd appreciate it if you consider Bug 145376 when you do so. [07:09] Launchpad bug 145376 in gimp "[apport] sphere.py crashed with ImportError in ()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145376 [07:10] ScottK: ok, done [07:10] ajmitch: Cool. Thanks. [07:11] I see we lost the URL to that page out of /topic. [07:11] ajmitch: What's the URL again? [07:11] Sorry. [07:12] bddebian's gone to bed so I have to be hopeless now. [07:12] django.ajmitch.net.nz/rcbugs [07:12] Its on wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO [07:12] Thanks. [07:12] initially setup just as a test, but then it stuck [07:12] so I can't easily change URL now [07:15] lol [07:17] afternoon lifeless === viviersf [n=cain@gw.impilinux.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:18] Good afternoon lifeless === viviersf [n=cain@gw.impilinux.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:19] hi guys [07:19] maybe I can get something like motu.ubuntu.org.nz === ajmitch finds the loco person [07:20] heh [07:20] well I see that catalyst registered ubuntu.org.nz a couple of years ago [07:21] and the current loco coordinators happen to work at catalyst... [07:22] Anyone doinb websvn off the RC list? [07:22] doind/doing [07:22] If not, I'll get it.... [07:22] maybe I can convince them for server space as well === minghua [i=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:31] If a package depends on php5 | php4 do I need to merge it or can I leave it? === Martinp23 [n=martinp2@wikimedia/Martinp23] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:32] ajmitch: ^^^? [07:34] ScottK: As in what? Remove php4? [07:34] soren: Yes. Do I need to remove the option to depend on php4 or can I leave it (it's a sync otherwise)? === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F72F07.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:34] ScottK: Just leave it. [07:34] OK. THanks [07:35] :) [07:35] Hey dholbach. [07:35] good morning [07:35] hey TheMuso === zakame [i=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:38] websvn is done. [07:38] Good morning dholbach === ScottK is going to head to bed now. [07:40] hey ScottK [07:40] ScottK: good night :) [07:40] Hy. [07:40] Hey even === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:42] Hobbsee: If you are wanting to raise your blood pressure you might grep through LongPointyStick's logs and see what fun Kmos has been up to while you were away. [07:43] Good afternoon too Hobbsee. === ScottK found out long enough ago that he can probably sleep. [07:43] ScottK: urgh. [07:43] ScottK: what's he done? === Hobbsee notes that the sponsorship queue hasnt exploded. [07:44] No, the problem isn't volume this time [07:44] Just promising people that the final GIMP would make Gutsy and then emailing StevenK to ask him to make sure it did. [07:44] oh yay... [07:45] The only progress I'm noticing is the reduction in volume. I'm still not detecting and increased (or extant) clue factor. [07:45] he shouldn't have promised it, but the release team should at least review the upgrade to rc3 [07:45] dholbach: i'm sure we will, but him peskering about will only make it slower, not quicker [07:46] dholbach: Agreed, but he's raising people's expectation on stuff he's no idea about and distracting people from getting work done. [07:46] right [07:46] ScottK: well, then everyone will know that he's on crack. which may not be bad. [07:47] Well the person in question was someone I don't recall seeing active here before. He's not the first impression we want to make. [07:47] I'll talk to him [07:47] ScottK: true, but until people like dholbach and jono feel like chucking him out, rather than speaking to him and attempting to make him more clueful, we're stuck with his misinformation. [07:48] Right. On my list of reasons for spending less time on Ubuntu after Gutsy releases. [07:48] come on now [07:48] I'm happy to look at rc3, I'd just prefer not to get Kmos mailing me saying "Debian already has it =)" [07:48] he's not wreaking havoc [07:48] and we had people badger us about new versions of *whatever* before [07:48] dholbach: I think the entire situation with him has been very poorly handled from the perspective of allowing us to get actual work done. [07:49] what do you think how many mails seb128 got about the newest pidgin etc? [07:49] dholbach: I don't mean today, I mean in general. [07:49] dholbach: The fact he mailed me isn't the problem - the fact that he told someone that GIMP 2.4 final would be in Gutsy is. [07:49] I'll talk to him [07:50] so you're saying is: remove him from the community, else I'll do less for Ubuntu? [07:51] dholbach: yes, but it's kmos. [07:51] how many people that have trouble understanding what we do will we face when MOTU gets more mainstream? [07:51] dholbach: sorry? [07:52] Yeah, parse error [07:52] I have concerns, when it comes to the point that this is 'the kmos problem' [07:52] all I'm saying is: this is not the last time that somebody misunderstands what we do and how we do it [07:53] and removing those people from the community is not what I call the standard way to deal with people [07:53] dholbach: I understand it very clearly which is why I despair that in a case as clear as this abusive/destructive behavior is tolerated. It's only going to get worse. [07:53] Isn't gimp in main? [07:53] Yes [07:53] minghua: oh yes. [07:53] dholbach: Of course. But other people tend to listen. [07:53] dholbach: There's a point where it's the only answer. [07:53] wouldn't you agree that things have changed? [07:53] hey Hobbsee, dholbach [07:53] Or better, *actually ask questions* [07:53] my problem with this isnt the fact taht someone's misunderstood. my problem with this is that the someone has *continually* misunderstood, and seems to be making little to no effort in actually attempting to undersatnd. [07:53] hi ajmitch [07:53] dholbach: Only the volume. [07:54] I mean I'm not saying that the gimp was the right thing to do === Zic [n=Zic@ubuntu/member/zic] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:54] dholbach: sure, he's changed. he's ogne from random closing of bugs, to sync floods, to removal floods, to saying things that he has no right to promise. he keeps changing, but it doesnt seem to be an *improvement* === zakame [i=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:55] Hobbsee: it wasn't a firm promise, just a 'yes' followed by "I'm pretty sure =)" [07:55] Each time we say don't do X he either does X anyway or picks Y and causes more trouble. [07:55] ajmitch: right. i havent looked at the logs yet. [07:55] do you have the bug number for that? [07:55] I'll talk to him. [07:55] ajmitch: He had no way to be pretty sure. [07:55] dholbach: It was here on IRC. [07:55] oh ok [07:57] I'm not saying he did not cause a lot of trouble, but this gimp case is not really worth being outraged about it. [07:57] as I said, I'll talk to him [07:57] dholbach: Remember all the confusion he caused over the ddclient UVFe. His presence just seems to make everything harder. How much harder is a function of his activity level. [07:57] I think it's more of a cumulative thing [07:57] ajmitch: Yes. [07:57] Agreed. [07:57] dholbach: He's way past out of 2nd chances in my book. [07:57] 6th, 7th ... [07:59] I'll talk to him and propose to him talking me through his changes before he does stuff [07:59] So, back to my earlier point, the fact that Ubuntu appears to be willing to tolerate an effectively inifinite (I'd imagine there is a limit, but it's undiscovered as of yet) degree of destructive behavior makes it a less fun environement for me to volunteer my time in. === tonyy [n=anthony@ubuntu/member/tonyyarusso] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:59] dholbach: good luck. iirc, you said that last time. [07:59] Hobbsee: he's been asking me much more since then [07:59] dholbach: still not enough, it seems. but OK. === khermans [i=khermans@nat/cisco/x-8221f10933cc48ef] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee wonders if dholbach has looked at the ddclient stuff yet === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:01] Hobbsee: I looked at it and am waiting for an update on it [08:02] dholbach: in all honesty, if it's a choice between using time to fix processes, and to help out other people, and to get more people into MOTU, with the mentoring, etc, vs going with kmos, and fixing every hairbrained thing that he does...i know which i'd pick. But really, it's your call - because you'll be the one doing it. And, of course, you'll be the one answering to Canonical about what's happened, and whether it was a good decision or [08:02] not. [08:05] who is this kmos person? [08:05] right, if you don't want to deal with him because you've spent a lot of time on his mistakes already, that's perfectly ok [08:06] dholbach: so you're offering to deal with all his bugs on the sponsorship queue, and fix all the messes he does in here? [08:06] pwnguin: You don't want to know. [08:07] pwnguin: he's a guy who attempts to "help out" - but has a weird idea of what helping out is [08:07] well, i might want to at least know how to avoid him :) [08:07] heh [08:07] "he helps all the time. people just misunderstand his help and end up running... or burning... or dying" [08:07] Hobbsee: there's nothing in the sponsoring queue of him right now [08:07] pwnguin: he's gone from random closing of bugs, to sync floods, to removal floods, to saying things that he has no right to promise. [08:07] dholbach: yes, for good reason. [08:08] dholbach: he's kept his promise to not sync-flood, at least for the moment [08:08] Hobbsee: but yeah, I'll ask him to work with me as a mentor [08:08] dholbach: OK. so we'll shunt any bugs to you, presumably? === TheMuso feels that kmos hasn't annoyed hi too much. [08:08] I just deal with whatever he does as it comes. [08:09] As much as he is frustratig, I don't let it annoy me. [08:09] frustrating [08:09] Hobbsee: works for me [08:09] Because if I do, then I'll get more frustrated, and then it adversly affects my work. === dholbach hugs TheMuso [08:10] TheMuso: unfortunately, at some level, i know i'm the co-head of the sponsorship queue - so i do have to make sure that people are happy with the way it works, and fix it when it doesnt. i cant just ignore it forever. [08:10] TheMuso: and even more unfortunately, some of that involves kmos. [08:10] Hobbsee: fine then, shunt some off to me as well if you want [08:10] ajmitch: great! :) === vil [n=vladimir@ubuntu/member/vil] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:11] Hobbsee: I understand, and I'm sure if things from kmos get too much, I'll make suggestions where necessary, but I am doing my best to take the bad with the good. [08:11] though I'd still have to pass any UVF-related ones to you [08:11] ok, I think we've talked about most points now - I'll catch him as soon as I can and keep you informed of how that goes [08:12] ajmitch: i'm happy to delegate them too - or at least, make sure a MOTU has gone thru and checked if the changes are sane. [08:12] dholbach: I'm happy to help where I can, as I always try to give him a chance, but there are limits. [08:12] yes [08:13] It could be that I'm not around enough to clean up after him or something. :p === ajmitch wonders if we can try & avoid as many NEW packages as possible for hardy [08:13] ajmitch: Sounds sane to me. [08:13] we're going to have our hands full making sure you can upgrade from dapper or gutsy [08:14] That's going to make for some fun discussions in Boston [08:14] Aye. [08:14] bug 145467 looks interesting [08:14] Launchpad bug 145467 in ubuntu "compaq v3428 " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145467 [08:14] A what now? :-) === RAOF wonders idly what changed his /dev/mapper symlinks so that Storage-gutsy_chroot -> Storage-gutsy_chroot . No wonder sbuild isn't working. [08:15] RAOF: Way cool. [08:15] StevenK: Totally! [08:16] I suspect the devmapper upgrade that just got installed. [08:16] That's like having /dev/sda1 -> / and then wondering why your machine panics at boot. [08:16] unpossible === StevenK is still pondering how to destroy his work machine tomorrow [08:17] why would you want to? [08:17] Because it's my last day. :-) [08:17] I see [08:18] why destroy what you can subtly own? [08:20] ajmitch: Which part is interesting? The Chinese part? ;-) [08:20] minghua: yes, I can't quite make sense of it [08:21] ajmitch: I can. But what should I do? seb has said before that we should just outright close non-English bugs. [08:22] And if we close the bug, where should we point him to? [08:22] I thought there were (overworked) people who were translating some bugs [08:23] It's a pretty poor bug report anyway... [08:23] I assumed so, from the brevity of it [08:23] Mark it incomplete and LP will take care of it in time.... [08:23] Okay, let me phrase something. === minghua is in a good mood today. === Nightrose [n=lydia@port-87-234-157-150.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === StevenK updates bug 145467 [08:26] Launchpad bug 145467 in ubuntu "compaq v3428 " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145467 [08:28] thanks :) [08:28] you gonna play translator the whole time? [08:28] Actually, a workmate just threw the text into Google, and it dealt. [08:28] heh [08:28] He's about to paste it into the bug. [08:30] Hmm. [08:30] Does people really want to deal with that bug? I can translate the report - but I honestly don't think it's worth the effort. [08:31] not enough info to be very useful there [08:31] I just put some words there to ask him not to submit bug reports in Chinese. [08:31] do the locos have answers queues? [08:32] I saw that. I'm amused by the fact that I've managed to get 2 other people in the office looking at this bug. [08:32] heh [08:32] why? [08:32] its no more unique than the random spanish language bugs [08:34] IMHO Spanish speaking bug triagers should do the same thing to those bugs. [08:35] i'd be comfortable with an answers queue for other langages [08:35] (and then, if the bug is clear, maybe do a translation for the developers to look at) [08:35] yes === minghua would volunteer to monitor and deal with Chinese answers queue, too. But we probably don't have that, do we? [08:37] c [08:37] oops [08:37] ive got your password now! [08:39] :) [08:39] I'm not that careless === ant30 [n=aperezar@38.Red-80-36-82.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === TheMuso shakes his head at one of Debian's weird odoties, not moving a package into testing, just because it doesn't build on two obscure arches, that nobody is likely to use the package on anyway. :) [08:41]