[01:47] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 12 minutes
[01:48] <dholbach> HEY flohack
[01:49] <flohack> Hi! I'll wait until 14.00 before I repost my question
[01:49] <dholbach> heya jussi01
[01:49] <jussi01> hi dholbach :)
[01:49] <BugMaN> hi
[01:49] <dholbach> hey guys :)
[01:49] <Hobbsee> hiya!
[01:57] <dholbach> hi-bye Hobbsee :)
[01:59] <dholbach> hello everybody - welcome to another MOTU Q&A session
[01:59] <dholbach> if you're here for the session, please quickly introduce yourself :-)
[02:00] <dholbach> I'm Daniel Holbach, MOTU for quite a long time now and trying to make it as easy as possible to join the developer crowd - if you still have questions after the session, please mail me with anything
[02:00] <dholbach> Who else do we have here? :-)
[02:00] <flohack> Hi! I'm one of the developers of ktikz, a small application designed for scientific writers who use TikZ for drawing their illustrations. I try to get ktikz into Ubuntu :-)
[02:01] <dholbach> great to have you here flohack
[02:01] <TheMuso> Hi. I am Luke Yelavich, a MOTU since January, and packaging lead for the UbuntuStudio project, as well as a regular accessibility team contributer.
[02:01] <dholbach> seb128: we're going through a round of introductions atm
[02:01] <flohack> Don't laugh at the name ktikz please...not one of my most creative inventions I know gg
[02:02] <seb128> Hi, I'm Sebastien and I'm working on the Ubuntu Desktop for canonical
[02:02] <dholbach> flohack: don't worry - I think there are names for software that are worse :)
[02:02] <dholbach> anybody else?
[02:02] <BugMaN> Hi! I'm Maurizio, i try to improve my skills on packages activities
[02:02] <dholbach> great to have you here, BugMaN
[02:02] <pleia2> hey, I'm Lyz, I do some software packaging for Debian, will sort of be lurking (I'm at work) but am interested in starting to pick up on how things work in MOTU
[02:03] <dholbach> AstralJava, adam_b: we're going through a quick round of introductions atm - nice you are stopping by :)
[02:03] <dholbach> pleia2: excellent
[02:03] <porthose> Hi I packaged ampache for debian, just hanging out
[02:04] <dholbach> porthose: nice to see you again
[02:04] <porthose> :)
[02:04] <dholbach> ok, maybe everybody else will introduce themselves during the session; let's go :-)
[02:04] <dholbach> the documents I can suggest to all those of you who are new to packaging are
[02:04] <dholbach>  - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU (of course)
[02:05] <dholbach>  - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Recipes (to start playing with tools you use for packaging everyday)
[02:05] <dholbach>  - https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ (to look up whatever might be new to you)
[02:06] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Documentation (has important links to all kinds of packaging docs)
[02:06] <dholbach> who of you started packaging new software or working on existing packages already?
[02:07] <porthose> new
[02:07] <flohack> I just uploaded ktikz to REVU, could someone please give me a link to the review procedure, or explain? Do I have to ask someone here for a review explicitly, or are you reviewing packages all the time and should I just wait until my package is reviewed?
[02:07] <jussi01> Hei, Im Jussi, Im a motu mentoree - hopefully one day I'll get to MOTU. Im also part of the ubuntu studio team
[02:07] <flohack> so that would be new then
[02:07] <dholbach> flohack: yes, that's a NEW package
[02:08] <dholbach> flohack: good question... the MOTU policy says that two MOTUs will have to give a positive review for your package
[02:08] <flohack> Yes that's clear from the docs
[02:08] <TheMuso> Since we are close to a release, bug fixing is more of a priority at the moment, so your package likely won't be looked at till next cycle.
[02:08] <dholbach> flohack: you can ask for reviews on #ubuntu-motu on the ubuntu-motu-mentors@ mailing list, but at the moment we're in NewPackagesFreeze
[02:08] <dholbach> so we're focusing more on existing bugs, etc
[02:08] <TheMuso> dholbach: That too.
[02:09] <dholbach> flohack: but it does not hurt to send a mail to ubuntu-motu-mentors@; somebody with a bit of free time will look after your package
[02:09] <flohack> I thought that was just for main atm...but you just released beta...which probably introduced the freeze i suppose
[02:09] <TheMuso> flohack: The freeze has been in place for a few weeks actually.
[02:09] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseSchedule has more info on all the freezes
[02:09] <porthose> During next release cycle will MOTU be reviewing packages in PPA's
[02:10] <dholbach> porthose: yes, if they have bugs with needs-packaging assigned to them
[02:10] <TheMuso> porthose: They would be better on revu, as there is a comments system that allows for viewing of what has been reviewed, and what needs work etc.
[02:10] <TheMuso> IMO
[02:10] <flohack> Is FeatureFreeze the relevant deadline for new Universe packges?
[02:11] <dholbach> yes, it's as TheMuso says; we currently are in a state where we have not integrated the PPA system into our review processes fully yet
[02:11] <porthose> Cool Thx
[02:11] <dholbach> flohack: yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureFreeze
[02:12] <dholbach> Who of you worked on existing packages already? Like applied a patch?
[02:12] <norsetto> me :-)
[02:12] <jussi01> me
[02:12] <BugMaN> me sometimes :)
[02:12] <AstralJava> o/
[02:13] <dholbach> great :)
[02:13] <dholbach> how did you get your packages uploaded?
[02:14] <dholbach> first of all, I'm pleased to see that you are working on existing packages like that - that's one thing I like about MOTU: if there's a bug that bothers you, it's very easy to just change it and get things fixed
[02:14] <dholbach> did you make use of  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess  to get the change included in Ubuntu or did you ping somebody to get it done?
[02:15] <BugMaN> yes, usual i'm subscribe bug to universe or main sponsors
[02:15] <jussi01> no, pinged
[02:15] <jussi01> nice page to know though :)
[02:16] <dholbach> BugMaN: nice
[02:16] <dholbach> jussi01: yeah, it's good to use that process, because you're not blocked on individual persons, who might or might not have time
[02:16] <BugMaN> dholbach: i done that via LP and not with a tool
[02:16] <flohack> Thank you very much for helping! Unfortunately I have to get back to my thesis. Keep up the good work!
[02:16] <dholbach> jussi01: also you get input from not just one, but lots of different people
[02:16] <dholbach> flohack: let me know how your attempts at becoming a MOTU go
[02:17] <flohack> I'll do!
[02:17] <dholbach> flohack: I'm keen to see you on that team and keen to see you project in Ubuntu soon
[02:17] <dholbach> rock on!
[02:17] <flohack> thanks!
[02:17] <dholbach> BugMaN: yeah that's fine too; as long as ubuntu-*-sponsors are on the bug
[02:17] <dholbach> does anybody have any concrete questions?
[02:17] <dholbach> any package or problem we could take a look at together?
[02:18] <jussi01> dholbach: is there a list of things you need to know for becoming a motu?
[02:19] <dholbach> jussi01: good question
[02:19] <dholbach> jussi01: no, there's not; but the process is very easy and very straight-forward
[02:19] <TheMuso> My answer to that would be, you can't know everything, but you need to know where to go to get the answers you seek.
[02:19] <dholbach> 1) basically you contribute changes, new packages, patches, etc by the process described above
[02:20] <TheMuso> THings you do need to know, are how to read and understand diffs, understand the commonly used files in the debian directory, and how a package goes together.
[02:20] <dholbach> 2) at some stage your sponsors tell you "hey man, you should be able to do this yourself; you're doing good work"
[02:20] <dholbach> 3) you send a small application to the MOTU Council
[02:20] <dholbach> 4) You become MOTU
[02:20] <jussi01> ahhh :)
[02:20] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Hopeful/Recruitment is the process for that
[02:20] <jussi01> cool. thank you
[02:20] <dholbach> it's really straight-forward and it takes people like norsetto just a few weeks ;-)
[02:21] <jussi01> (and people like jussi01 a few years...lol)
[02:21] <dholbach> but TheMuso has a good point: it's really important to know who to ask and when to ask other people
[02:21] <dholbach> that's why it's good to be on the ubuntu-motu and ubuntu-motu-mentors mailing lists and ask people if you're unsure
[02:21] <dholbach> also to get your packages reviewed by a variety of people
[02:22] <dholbach> jussi01: I doubt that :-)
[02:22] <TheMuso> Agreed. Getting known amongst the MOTUs, means a better chance of becoming one yourself.
[02:22] <dholbach> hey gpocentek
[02:22] <gpocentek> hello dholbach
[02:22] <jussi01> dholbach: :) One more question - is it necessary to become an ubuntu member before becoming a motu?
[02:22] <TheMuso> jussi01: No.
[02:23] <dholbach> jussi01: no, motu membership includes ubuntumembers membership
[02:23] <jussi01> ok. :)
[02:23] <dholbach> if you want to get involved with the MOTUs and don't know what to work on: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO has a variety of easy bugs and packages to fix
[02:23] <dholbach> for example the weekly bitesize tasks at the bottom of the page
[02:23] <huats> jussi01: and you will notice that everyone is very nice with you when you start (even after ofcourse...)
[02:24] <jussi01> huats: very true :)
[02:24] <TheMuso> SO theres plenty there, just be prepared to do some bug triaj along the way. :p
[02:24] <dholbach> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=unmetdeps for example
[02:24] <norsetto> jussi01: a little word of advice from a fresh motu: don't be shy or afraid to ask, ask, ask, and when in doubt ask. oh, and ask
[02:24] <dholbach> that's a list of bugs of packages that are not installable in gutsy at the moment
[02:25] <TheMuso> jussi01: Thanks for dropping by.
[02:25] <jussi01> norsetto: thanks...dont worry... I do
[02:25] <dholbach> jussi01: see you around and let me know how things go
[02:25] <ian_brasil> hi ..i have just ported a couple of apps to ubuntu mobile. I assume that I need to make the .deb packages now and then ping someone when it is done ..is this the correct procedure. Also is there a canonical tutorial for packaging?
[02:25] <BugMaN> dholbach: for those bugs it's better to have a pbuilder envy for gutsy to test?
[02:25] <jussi01> dholbach: np. I will
[02:25] <dholbach> BugMaN: and probably a chroot to test-install the packages in afterwards
[02:25] <dholbach> BugMaN: but yeah, that's a requirement
[02:26] <BugMaN> dholbach:
[02:26] <BugMaN> dholbach: ok
[02:26] <TheMuso> dholbach: Do we have a good document explaining what a chroot is?
[02:26] <dholbach> ian_brasil: I can paste you a few documentation links I mentioned at the beginning of the session
[02:26] <ian_brasil> cool
[02:26] <dholbach> TheMuso: DebuggingProgramCrash has one I think
[02:26] <TheMuso> dholbach: ah ok.
[02:27] <dholbach> sudo mkdir /chroots; sudo debootstrap gutsy /chroots/gutsy     should work I think
[02:27] <dholbach> (getting debootstrap from -backports is necessary for that)
[02:27] <norsetto> TheMuso: I find this very good https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebootstrapChroot
[02:27] <dholbach> ah nice
[02:27] <TheMuso> norsetto: Yeah thats another good one, but it uses the slowly phasing out dchroot.
[02:28] <dholbach> ian_brasil: after that uploading them and asking for review using http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess will get you reviews for those packages
[02:28] <norsetto> TheMuso: yes, but it says so ;-)
[02:28] <TheMuso> I use LVM snapshots with chroots and sbuild personally.
[02:28] <dholbach> ian_brasil: after having gone through a bunch of successful sponsored uploads, people will ask you to become a MOTU yourself and you can send an application to the MOTU Council
[02:29] <dholbach> ian_brasil: that's basically it
[02:29] <dholbach> any more questions?
[02:29] <dholbach> any packages / patches we should look at together?
[02:29] <ian_brasil> dholbach: that helps a lot...thx
[02:31] <Goliath23> dholbach: i have a technical question. debuild fails on my machine here with an error message.
[02:31] <Goliath23> can I post it?
[02:31] <dholbach> Goliath23: fire away
[02:31] <norsetto> !ask | goliath23
[02:31] <ubotu> goliath23: Don't ask to ask a question. Just ask your question :)
[02:31] <Goliath23> checking if C++ programs can be compiled... no
[02:31] <Goliath23> configure: error: Your Installation isn't able to compile simple C++ programs.
[02:31] <Goliath23> Check config.log for details - if you're using a Linux distribution you might miss
[02:31] <Goliath23> a package named similar to libstdc++-dev.
[02:31] <TheMuso> Goliath23: DO you have build-essential installed?
[02:31] <dholbach> Goliath23: do you have build-essential installed?
[02:31] <Goliath23> I have the standard c++ libs installes. on my computer at home debuild works fine
[02:31] <dholbach> hehe
[02:32] <Goliath23> yes
[02:32] <dholbach> is this a certain package?
[02:32] <dholbach> or some other software?
[02:32] <Goliath23> nono, ist ksplash-engine-moodin
[02:32] <Goliath23> works fine and builds fine at home
[02:32] <dholbach> try       sudo apt-get build-dep ksplash-engine-moodin
[02:33] <Goliath23> nothing installed
[02:33] <dholbach> then config.log will have the answer
[02:33] <Goliath23> can I somehow remove and reinstall build-essential and all deps of it?
[02:33] <norsetto> Goliath23: can you paste your configure.log to pastebin?
[02:33] <Goliath23> #ifdef __cplusplus
[02:33] <Goliath23> extern "C" void std::exit (int) throw (); using std::exit;
[02:33] <Goliath23> configure: exit 1
[02:33] <Goliath23> norsetto: sure
[02:34] <Goliath23> http://pastebin.com/m658d4398
[02:34] <slytherin> Is there any page mentioning what kind of changes can/should/should not be done when creating a package from existing debian package?
[02:35] <TheMuso> slytherin: What reason do you have to modify a debian packge for Ubuntu
[02:35] <TheMuso> Usually f possible, its better to send the fix to Debian, and sync accross to Ubuntu.
[02:35] <dholbach> slytherin: not to my knowledge. but there's an easy rule of thumb: if it addresses a certain need that we can't achieve by syncing from debian, keep the changes as small as possible
[02:35] <Goliath23> norsetto: hm, line 1012 something about pthread..
[02:36] <slytherin> TheMuso: ex. I modified copyright year and download url in debian/copyright of a package. I also added version for libvorbis-dev as per my understanding of configure sript.
[02:36] <dholbach> slytherin: the thing is: we re-merge all our changed packages with debian in the beginnign of the release cycle and the bigger your change, the more conflicts it's probably going to have with a new version from debian we're merging with
[02:37] <TheMuso> slytherin: That sounds like something that could go to Debian, and synced accross.
[02:37] <slytherin> dholbach: That is right. That is why I wanted to know if their are any guidelines.
[02:37] <dholbach> slytherin: that sounds like cosmetical changes the user probably has no benefit of
[02:37] <dholbach> slytherin: no strict guidelines, but bear in mind that you or somebody else will have to re-do your changes to package when merging again
[02:38] <norsetto> Goliath23: yes, sounds like an header problem
[02:38] <slytherin> dholbach: hmm
[02:38] <dholbach> slytherin: does that make sense?
[02:38] <slytherin> dholbach: yes, it does
[02:38] <dholbach> ok
[02:39] <dholbach> Goliath23: what kind of modifications did you do?
[02:39] <Goliath23> dholbach: no modifications.. I guess I'll be able to continue from here... I guess I have to remove some deprecated libsomthing-dev ...
[02:39] <norsetto> Goliath23: try reinstalling libc6-dev
[02:40] <Goliath23> kk, thanks guys
[02:40] <huats> Hey all
[02:40] <dholbach> generally a: sudo apt-get install devscripts build-essential fakeroot; sudo apt-get build-dep <package>; fakeroot apt-get source -b <package>       should enable you to build it
[02:40] <Goliath23> ah... apt-get remove --purge libpthread-dev did the job!
[02:40] <dholbach> hey huats
[02:41] <dholbach> any more packaging problems? any packages we should look at?
[02:41] <huats> oups I thought Goliath23 was over... I let you finish and then I ask mine :-)
[02:41] <dholbach> huats: fire away
[02:41] <Goliath23> i'm finished
[02:41] <dholbach> ian_brasil: any mobile packages you have lined up? :)
[02:41] <huats> I have problems for solving bug #36733
[02:42] <huats> the rubber part....
[02:42] <dholbach> oh, the py[co]  one? :)
[02:42] <huats> yep
[02:42] <norsetto> bug 36733
[02:42] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adonthell/+bug/36733
[02:42] <huats> you saw it so many times...
[02:42] <dholbach> yes :)
[02:42] <dholbach> alright, which source package are we looking at?
[02:43] <huats> well I have been searching a way to remove the pyc and the only one was to make a find /rm
[02:43] <dholbach> rubber?
[02:43] <huats> rubber
[02:43] <huats> yep
[02:43] <slytherin> is ubotu sleeping? Why didn't he read the bug description for us?
[02:43] <dholbach> slytherin: no idea
[02:43] <ian_brasil> i have ported gpodder and liferea to UME
[02:43] <dholbach> ian_brasil: wow - nice
[02:43] <ian_brasil> i python and i C app
[02:43] <huats> so I tried to insert that in debian/rules inside the install target
[02:43] <huats> but nothing seems to work...
[02:44] <dholbach> can you post the new rules file somewhere?
[02:44] <huats> yep
[02:44] <huats> pastebin....
[02:44] <dholbach> does everybody understand what huats' bug is about?
[02:44] <ian_brasil> I am writing the UME Guide so my idea is to document the whole MOTU process for other mobile devs
[02:44] <dholbach> ian_brasil: that's great - we should chat about that at some stage
[02:44] <ian_brasil> for sure..i was hoping you would say that :)
[02:44] <porthose> is there a way to setup multiple pbuilder like one for feisty, one for gusty etc?
[02:45] <dholbach> porthose: I think that's documented too on PbuilderHowto
[02:45] <TheMuso> porthose: Yes. There is a script in ubuntu-dev-tools to do this I think.
[02:45] <dholbach> yeah
[02:45] <TheMuso> pbuilder-dist
[02:45] <dholbach> huats: do you have the rules file up somewhere?
[02:45] <huats> paste.ubuntu.com/491/
[02:45] <porthose> Thx
[02:46] <huats> sorryfor the delay (the file was on another compuer)
[02:46] <huats> I have put in purpose the find/rm twice
[02:47] <TheMuso> huats: WHy did you put the find line twice?
[02:47] <huats> TheMuso: juste to shiw you where I have tried to use it
[02:47] <huats> s/shiw/show/
[02:47] <TheMuso> huats: Right
[02:47] <TheMuso> huats: Wht has worked, and what hasn't?
[02:48] <huats> nothing has worked... it builds correctly, but the .pyc are still there...
[02:48] <TheMuso> Right.
[02:49] <TheMuso> huats: Have you considered building the package step by step by hand, and attempting to determine which step creates the files? By steps I mean, fakeroot debian/rules clean, ./debian/rules build, fakeroot debian/rules install and fakeroot debian/rules binary
[02:49] <huats> TheMuso: no but I'll be very interested in doing it...
[02:49] <TheMuso> I personally have found this very helpful, especially recently, in finding problems.
[02:50] <huats> TheMuso: how can I do that ?
[02:51] <huats> TheMuso: after a  pbuilder login or not ?
[02:51] <TheMuso> huats: You need to make sure you have all the package's build-dependencies installed, and run the above commands manually.
[02:51] <TheMuso> huats: If you can login to a pbuilder, and get the package into the chroot, thats great, but things like this need a general purpose chroot handy.
[02:52] <TheMuso> i.e not specifically for pbuilder use.
[02:52] <huats> TheMuso: ok so I chroot to my pbuilder env
[02:52] <huats> TheMuso: and the I can build it step by step...
[02:53] <TheMuso> huats: Yes.
[02:53] <norsetto> dholbach: you may want to look at my changes some time today: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Contributor
[02:53] <dholbach> norsetto: will do
[02:54] <dholbach> I found the problem
[02:54] <dholbach> install: build
[02:54] <dholbach>         dh_testdir
[02:54] <dholbach>         dh_testroot
[02:54] <dholbach>         dh_clean -k
[02:54] <dholbach>         dh_installdirs
[02:54] <dholbach>         $(MAKE) install prefix=$(CURDIR)/debian/rubber/usr
[02:54] <dholbach>         find $(CURDIR) -name '*.pyc' -exec rm {} \;
[02:54] <dholbach> # Build architecture-independent files here.
[02:54] <dholbach> this will make it work
[02:54] <dholbach> you have to put *.pyc into ''
[02:54] <huats> dholbach: I know
[02:54] <huats> dholbach: :-)
[02:54] <TheMuso> find is funny like that at times.
[02:54] <dholbach> else the shell will expand it to the first thing it finds
[02:55] <dholbach> ok great :)
[02:55] <dholbach> another bug solved
[02:55] <huats> dholbach: oh
[02:55] <dholbach> huats: let me know when you put up the debdiff for the fix :-)
[02:55] <huats> dholbach: I had misread your sentence
[02:55] <huats> dholbach: ok
[02:55] <huats> dholbach: sorry for bothering...
[02:55] <dholbach> huats: does it make sense?
[02:55] <dholbach> huats: no, you're not bothering at all
[02:56] <dholbach> huats: what do you think how many times I made that particular mistake
[02:56] <TheMuso> huats: This is what we are here for.
[02:56] <huats> dholbach: yes... you use the same command at the same place, but with the correct syntax...
[02:56] <dholbach> it's a mistake that's easy to make
[02:56] <TheMuso> dholbach: Often not quoting the name parameter stuff works.
[02:56] <dholbach> in debian/rules you often mix shell code with Makefile code
[02:56] <dholbach> it's easy to be wrong there
[02:56] <TheMuso> As I said, find can be an unusual beast.
[02:57] <dholbach> yes
[02:57] <dholbach> any other bugs you want to talk about? if not I have one
[02:57] <dholbach> I talked about 'unmetdeps' bugs before; package that are not installable because their dependencies cannot be resolved
[02:57] <dholbach> I'll make this the last one then
[02:58] <dholbach> we should have another session next week :)
[02:58] <dholbach> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wammu/+bug/145538 is one of the list I mentioned earlier
[02:58] <dholbach> norsetto: you're so mean
[02:58] <TheMuso> norsetto: DO you want me to fix bugs, or not? :)
[02:58] <dholbach> can anybody find out what the problem is with this bug?
[02:59] <TheMuso> norsetto: DO you want me to fix bugs, or not? :)
[02:59] <TheMuso> To fix bugs, I need sleep at some point.
[02:59] <dholbach> if you look at the bug you will notice that it mentions amd64 - you can ignore that
[02:59] <dholbach> this bug affects all architectures
[03:00] <dholbach> so? anybody up for fixing the bug? :)
[03:01] <dholbach> ok, maybe we can get this one fixed next time or you can look at it and let me know what you find :-)
[03:01] <norsetto> dholbach: give them time to donwload the source :-)
[03:02] <dholbach> you don't need to download the source if you're on gutsy
[03:02] <dholbach> just try to install it by running           sudo apt-get install --dry-run wammu
[03:03] <TheMuso> dholbach: Often though, you do need to look atht e source package to get a good idea of why the unmet dep is the way it is.
[03:03] <dholbach> TheMuso: absolutely
[03:05] <AstralJava> wammu: Depends: python-gammu (>= 0.21) but it is not going to be installed
[03:05] <dholbach> AstralJava: yep
[03:05] <norsetto> AstralJava: and why is that?
[03:05] <adam_b> dholbach: the dry run was happy to install (until I updated repositorys, then as AstralJava)
[03:06] <dholbach> why is this not possible to install?
[03:06] <AstralJava> Hang on, I'll get the source. :)
[03:06] <norsetto> AstralJava: no need yet .....
[03:06] <adam_b> python-gammu is only 0.20-1
[03:06] <dholbach> exactly
[03:06] <dholbach> so we need to get a newer version from Debian
[03:07] <AstralJava> Heh, didn't think of that.
[03:07] <dholbach> http://packages.debian.org/src:python-gammu
[03:07] <adam_b> dholbach: thats ok with freeze?
[03:07] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment#SyncingAndMerging is the process for that
[03:08] <dholbach> adam_b: it will have to get a FeatureFreeze exception
[03:08] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-1d28045481b8803d4815989e93edc4206f4848c4
[03:08] <dholbach> but I'm sure it will get granted, because it fixes a serious bug
[03:08] <dholbach> does anybody of you want to work on that?
[03:08] <dholbach> and follow up with our findings on the bug report?
[03:09] <dholbach> AstralJava: that's great
[03:09] <dholbach> AstralJava: be sure to let me know if it gets stuck somewhere
[03:10] <TheMuso> AstralJava: Great. Feel free to ask me any questions if you have any.
[03:10] <dholbach> so you see; sometimes being a MOTU is some kind of detective work
[03:10] <adam_b> what about testing if wammu really needs the new version of python-gammu?
[03:10] <dholbach> and it's important to follow up on bug reports with what you've found out
[03:10] <AstralJava> Sure thing, and dholbach, TheMuso is my sponsor so I'll see him first before bugging all the world. :)
[03:10] <AstralJava> Oh wait, no that's wrong.
[03:10] <AstralJava> Nevermind.
[03:10] <TheMuso> AstralJava: mentor.
[03:11] <AstralJava> Heh, yeah that too. :)
[03:11] <dholbach> adam_b: we inherited both versions from Debian (no Ubuntu changes), so the debian maintainer must have thought that it's necessary to have that new version
[03:11] <norsetto> adam_b: note as well the version of wammu
[03:11] <dholbach> adam_b: as it happens the debian maintainer is also the upstream author, so it's probably right what he's doing :-)
[03:12] <dholbach> adam_b: but you're right; sometimes version numbers are too strict and you can "bend" them to make packages installable again
[03:12] <dholbach> adam_b: in this case I think it's not applicable
[03:12] <dholbach> porthose: thanks a lot for that
[03:12] <dholbach> it's been great to have you all around
[03:12] <adam_b> ahh ok, and probably worth checking that the newer python_gammu dosnt need any other new things?
[03:12] <dholbach> and make sure you're on the ubuntu-motu-mentors list, then I'll announce the next session there
[03:12] <pleia2> dholbach: quick policy question?
[03:12] <norsetto> everybody a good applause for dholbach!
[03:12] <dholbach> adam_b: exactly
[03:12] <TheMuso> Great to see the Q&A sessions are attracting peopl.
[03:12] <TheMuso> people
[03:12] <dholbach> pleia2: fire away
[03:13] <dholbach> thanks a lot... applaud yourselves too - you all were great
[03:13] <dholbach> and I hope to see you all as MOTUs soon :-)
[03:13] <pleia2> so I'm wondering what the opinion is about packaging in general because of my involvement with Ubuntu-Women, we've sort of been pushing women to contribute directly to Debian rather than Ubuntu since it'll benefit both distros
[03:14] <dholbach> pleia2: right... that's a valid point
[03:14] <pleia2> so is this appropriate?
[03:14] <dholbach> pleia2: I can only speak for myself: I contribute to Ubuntu, because I use Ubuntu and test things on Ubuntu
[03:14] <pleia2> I do tend to suggest they check out their package in Ubuntu too, see how it's doing and all, if it needs help
[03:14] <dholbach> pleia2: but I have close contact to debian developers, so I let them know about things I do
[03:15] <AstralJava> Thank you norsetto, dholbach, TheMuso and all others for having us here. :) Great job.
[03:15] <Hobbsee> pleia2!
[03:15] <pleia2> hey Hobbsee :)
[03:15] <dholbach> or another example: if I package a new software, I follow up on a debian RFP (request for package) or ITP (intent to package) bug to let them know, that I've already done the work in UBuntu, so they can benefit from that
[03:15] <pleia2> dholbach: good to know, thanks
[03:16] <dholbach> pleia2: so my answer would be something like: to contribute to Debian (and make other people benefit from our work too) you don't have to be a debian developer
[03:16] <dholbach> as long as you're easy to work with and maintain good channels of communication
[03:16] <dholbach> I hope that makes sense
[03:17] <pleia2> well the RFP and ITP bug notification if you package in ubuntu is a great idea
[03:17] <Hobbsee> of course, it helps that there are DD's around that you can persuade to upload your package to debian too
[03:17] <pleia2> I come from Debian, so that's why my dev work is over there, and it's neat to see my packages end up in Ubuntu too ;)
[03:18] <TheMuso> Well folks, I must be off. Hope to see all you hopefuls around ni the community, asking questions, and fixing bugs/updating packages.
[03:18] <TheMuso> s/ni/in/
[03:18] <dholbach> I'm off for lunch now
[03:18] <pleia2> enjoy, thanks!
[03:18] <dholbach> I'll let you all know on ubuntu-motu-mentors about the next session
[03:18] <norsetto> TheMuso: thanks for sticking with us so late :-)
[03:18] <dholbach> thanks a lot to all of you again!
[03:19] <TheMuso> norsetto: This is my normal time for staying up anyway.
[03:19] <huats> TheMuso: finally the hammer thing will stop :-)
[03:19] <AstralJava> Thanks again.
[03:19] <TheMuso> huats: heh.
[03:19] <huats> thanks all once again....
[03:19] <porthose> Thanks to all
[03:19] <huats> dholbach: will you put the log of this meeting somewhere ?
[03:20] <huats> well daniel or someone else :-)
[03:22] <dholbach> huats: http://daniel.holba,ch/temp/motu-qa.log
[03:23] <dholbach> it'd be nice if somebody could put this into some better place
[03:23] <dholbach> maybe on the wiki somewhere
[03:25] <huats> dholbach: ok thanks
[03:25] <dholbach> de rien
[03:25] <huats> dholbach: :-)
[03:25] <norsetto> dholbach: perhaps in the MOTU/School section
[03:25] <huats> dholbach: I have provided the debdiff to correct the rubber pb...
[03:26] <dholbach> huats: great, will take look later
[03:26] <huats> dholbach: of course... and "bon apptit"
[03:27] <dholbach> merci
[05:08] <sacater> es you can
[05:08] <sacater> eep
[05:08] <sacater> sorry wrong chan