[01:26] <LjL> ehm
[01:26] <LjL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelCustomBuild
[01:26] <LjL> "How to get the kernel source"
[01:26] <LjL> it says Git is the preferred method over apt-getting it
[01:26] <LjL> that doesn't sound right to me
[01:27] <Pici> hm
[01:29] <stdin> maybe for devs, but not for users...
[01:29] <LjL> that statement has been there for a long time though, i just never noticed
[01:30] <LjL> actually, it has been there forever, since the first revision by Ben Collins
[01:30] <LjL> and who am i to contradict Collins... still
[01:33] <stdin> add a "note" there, like "Unless you are going to hack the kernel you can user apt-get...."
[01:33] <LjL> stdin: maybe the issue is that the .deb package doesn't include security patches while git does, though
[01:34] <stdin> well "apt-get source linux-image-$(uname -r)" will get the source of the kernel you're running
[01:36] <LjL> that's true as well
[01:37] <LjL> edited, have a look
[01:38] <stdin> that seem better 
[01:39] <LjL> see #ubuntu ;)
[01:39] <stdin> heh
[01:40] <Tm_T> hah
[01:41] <Hacker> hi
[01:41] <stdin> hello Hacker
[01:42] <LjL> wget www.google.com/q=site:wiki.ubuntu.com
[01:42] <LjL> for Page in $(htmlextractlinks index.html); do echo "Use APT even if this page recommends otherwise!" | wput - $Page?action=edit; done
[01:42] <LjL> i'm the APT dictator :P
[01:43] <Hacker> LjL: ?
[01:43] <LjL> Hacker, sorry, that wasn't for you :)
[01:43] <Hacker> ok.
[01:43] <LjL> but can we help you?
[01:43] <Hacker> yes
[01:43] <stdin> Hacker: by my count it's only been 22 hours so far
[01:43] <Pici> LjL: you are weird.
[01:44] <Hacker> Oh. My clock must be a bit fast. I will fix that.
[01:44] <LjL> ...
[01:44] <Tm_T> stdin: you mean 22 out of 9872y35r4976q254rq9023762459876 ?
[01:44] <stdin> nah, only 24 (this time)
[01:44] <Tm_T> seriously?
[01:45] <stdin> that's what we decided yesterday so..
[01:45] <Tm_T> who decided?
[01:45] <LjL> stdin: sigh... see last thing i said in #ubuntu too
[01:45] <stdin> mostly me gnomefreak and Jucato
[01:46] <Tm_T> ok
[01:46] <Tm_T> well if its fine for you, I'm fine too
[01:46] <gnomefreak> if you can confrim he read it unban him please (im getting kind of tired of seeing him
[01:46] <stdin> Tm_T: and we didn't promise to unban, we said we'd decide then
[01:47] <Tm_T> I see
[01:47] <ubotu> Evanlec called the ops in #ubuntu
[01:48] <Pici> I hate when people do that.
[01:48] <nixternal> gahahahaha, that was funny right there
[01:48] <Amaranth> LjL: I would have sent him here but that works :)
[01:49] <LjL> [01:48:42]  <troubled> LjL: someone is jumpy :) btw, http://pastebin.ca/raw/717910  (and "vaporware" is missing from that list). related to the zewb attack this morning
[01:49] <LjL> who the heck is that?
[01:49] <LjL> Amaranth: i'll unban
[01:50] <Pici> LjL: I have no idea, I thought you knew what he was talking about
[01:50] <LjL> i do know
[01:50] <LjL> but i don't know who he *is*
[01:50] <Pici> Er, well, yes, thats what I meant.
[01:50] <Evanlec> hi
[01:51] <Evanlec> i made a oopsie
[01:51] <Evanlec> but i didnt think i'd get banned...
[01:52] <LjL> Evanlec, i see you knew about this channel
[01:52] <stdin> LjL: no I told Evanlec about it
[01:52] <Evanlec> no i didnt, rtdin
[01:52] <Evanlec> told me
[01:52] <Evanlec> stdin rather
[01:52] <LjL> stdin: ok, that one's sorted
[01:52] <gnomefreak> Evanlec: what was the reason you called ops to begin with?
[01:52] <Evanlec> i just wanted to see who was ops
[01:53] <LjL> Evanlec, you said you had seen other people use !ops | nickname to warn about troublemakers
[01:53] <LjL> and yes, that's exactly what it's used for
[01:53] <Evanlec> yea..or atleast thats what i thot
[01:53] <gnomefreak> Evanlec: /msg cs access #ubuntu list
[01:53] <Evanlec> o
[01:53] <LjL> didn't the thought cross your mind that it should *only* be used for that?
[01:53] <LjL> since it *does* warn us?
[01:53] <Evanlec> i didnt know it warned you
[01:53] <Evanlec> i thot it just listed who was op
[01:53] <LjL> ehm, [01:52:23]  <Evanlec> like when someone was acting up, someone would type !ops|<nick> to warn them i guess?
[01:53] <Evanlec> right, to warn the perpetrator...
[01:54] <Pici> Evanlec: It pings all of our names so that we know something is up.  
[01:54] <Evanlec> ohh i see
[01:54] <stdin> it prints their nicks, they get a highlight
[01:54] <gnomefreak> it does :) and it pings us as it says our nicks
[01:54] <Pici> Plus sends an alert to this channel.
[01:54] <Evanlec> i was unaware
[01:55] <Evanlec> i apologize :(
[01:55] <LjL> Evanlec, make sure you never do this again unless in a real emergency
[01:55] <LjL> you can join now
[01:55] <Evanlec> gotcha
[01:55] <Evanlec> thank you
[01:57] <troubled> heya
[01:57] <LjL> hi troubled, this sort of thing is better talked about in here than in #ubuntu
[01:57] <LjL> excuse me just one thing, but, while i do know what you were talking about... i don't think i know you?
[01:58] <troubled> ahh np, been in #debian many many years
[01:58] <troubled> i designed a db logger though that i use now to help out in channels and #freenode
[01:58] <LjL> right, my logs did point to "#debian" :)
[01:59] <troubled> it allows < 1sec queries on many thing. the one i paste was a list of all hosts for a nick, followed by another select of all nicks with those hosts. helps catch all their ips
[01:59] <LjL> troubled: how exactly do you put all the different nicks and IPs together?
[02:00] <LjL> i.e. since he changes everything - ident, IP, nick, how do you correlate?
[02:00] <LjL> oh, so there's still a manual "guessing of the host" involved... interesting though
[02:01] <troubled> sec, ill paste the sql for my select. it will make more sense
[02:01] <Pici> I think I understand what troubled is doing.
[02:01] <troubled> select id,nick,ident_name,sub.hostname from view_user_id as uid,
[02:01] <troubled> (select distinct(hostname) from view_user_id where nick = 'zewb') as sub
[02:01] <troubled> where sub.hostname = uid.hostname
[02:01] <troubled> order by id
[02:01] <troubled> the main select is all the hosts for "zewb" in this case. then i take that list and reselect from the same table all the nicks which have those hosts.
[02:02] <Pici> What client are you using to catch this stuff with?
[02:02] <troubled> its not perfect by any means, but it can help spot the obvious ones
[02:02] <troubled> irssi
[02:02] <LjL> troubled: ah, it's much clearer that way, my SQL is way rusty
[02:02] <troubled> svn://ircdetective.dyndns.org:27474 if your interested. irssi+perl+mysql atm
[02:02] <Pici> troubled: I'll definitly take a look
[02:03] <LjL> i don't use irssi, but it's still interesting
[02:03] <troubled> although imMute has developed a "cleaning" implementation from scratch against my db schema as well. #ircdetective if your interested in them though
[02:03] <LjL> had thought of something like that at times
[02:03] <LjL> but my client is so limited as far as scripting is concerned, that i'd have to write a whole irc proxy - or change client
[02:03] <troubled> its handy. although irssi blocks on inserts, so splits and floods can slow the irssi down until i get queue's implemented
[02:04] <Pici> I started to put together an irssi plugin to use the built in massjoin signals to alert me when something starts happening.  
[02:05] <troubled> Pici: well, i dont have any alerts yet. i do have plans for some irssi /commands to do the look ups, but for now i just use an sql window and put in the selects that im after manually. i have views setup to do all the joins to save me time as well
[02:11] <troubled> Pici: http://pastebin.ca/raw/717955 is about what im running for db size. and i still get < 1sec on 99% of the queries i do. and an index usually solves any of the slow ones. plus the design makes for small db dumps. thats about 400mb on disk, and only 50mb bz2 on a dump
[02:28] <gnomefreak> LjL: did you unban troubled from ubuntu?
[02:30] <gnomefreak> sorry wrong nick
[02:31] <gnomefreak> troubled: do you have anything else that you need help with in here?
[02:31] <gnomefreak> Jucato: your guy should be around shortly
[02:31] <LjL> you were thinking about evanlec i think
[02:31] <gnomefreak> LjL: i was 
[02:31] <Jucato> heheh :)
[02:32] <Jucato> part 2 of Hacker?
[02:32] <gnomefreak> yeah
[02:32] <Jucato> heheh
[02:33] <stdin> "by my count it's only been 22 hours so far"  to Hacker one hour ago, he replied: "Oh. My clock must be a bit fast. I will fix that." then quit :P
[02:33] <Jucato> lol
[02:34] <troubled> gnomefreak: hehe hey now! well, unless there were anymore question, i think im all done here
[02:34] <Jucato> actually stdin is the guy you want to poke :)
[02:34] <Jucato> stdin: since your ban basically covers all of him... I think I could remove mine, which is almost 48 hours old
[02:34] <troubled> thanks for having me, and dont be afraid to ask for any log info you might need on a nick ;) *waves*
[02:34] <gnomefreak> bye ty for wanting to help
[02:35] <stdin> done
[02:35] <gnomefreak> damn if people would stop pinging me i might get what i say out in time
[02:35] <Jucato> aw... you didn't let me put my op hat on first thing in the morning :(
[02:36] <stdin> you can remove one of the other 5 bans :p
[02:36] <Jucato> nvm...
[02:36] <rob> op hats are overrated..
[02:36] <rob> :P
[02:36] <stdin> so you feeling better today Jucato?
[02:37] <LjL> staff hats are so inelegant
[02:37] <Jucato> stdin: a bit :)
[02:37] <stdin> good, you can handle Hacker then :p
[02:37] <LjL> and cumbersome to wear
[02:38] <Jucato> hehehe
[02:38] <LjL> what did this funny guy do anyway?
[02:38] <LjL> i don't feel like checking the tracker
[02:38] <LjL> besides, it never works
[02:39] <rob> staff hats are made of lead.
[02:39] <stdin> lots of CTCP ping stuff, bot abuse and generally being offtopic  (is the short version)
[02:39] <stdin> then some ban evading on top
[02:39] <rob> from wikipedia "A soft, heavy, toxic and malleable poor metal"
[02:40] <gnomefreak> he was a pita but responded well when i asked him the simple questions :)
[02:40] <Jucato> although he claims that he wasn't ban evading. his IP changes every modem reset he says
[02:40] <gnomefreak> welcome to the world of dynapic ips/ proxies
[02:40] <stdin> Jucato: he was ban evading after I banned him, then kicked then he rejoined 
[02:40] <Jucato> ips?
[02:41] <stdin> so the "Ohh I didn't know" story doesn't wash with me
[02:41] <Jucato> that's why I said "he claims" and "he says" :)
[02:42] <stdin> he can claim the moon is made of cheese, I still won't believe him :p
[02:42] <Jucato> but it is!
[02:42] <gnomefreak> stdin: when i asked him why was he banned on tuesday he knew why and spit it out almost right away but he wasnt sure why on wed. kind of makes me think hes fairly honest
[02:43] <Jucato> either that or he's pretty proud of it :P
[02:43] <gnomefreak> but not my ban so im just watching
[02:43] <Jucato> it's all stdin's now :)
[02:43] <Jucato> (which is why I wanted my ban removed...)
[02:44] <LjL> rob: op hats, but specially the ones made after the seveas fashion, are made of copper, "a reddish-colored metal, with a high electrical and thermal conductivity"
[02:44] <stdin> the nick change to "sorrystdin" was the annoying thing, I hate it when people use my nick in theirs. like that xp_killer showed up as stdin2 ...
[02:46] <rob> LjL, so you are saying that op hats are bad to be wearing during thunderstorms?
[02:46] <LjL> rob, they *make* the thunderstorms
[02:46] <stdout> so, can i be unbanned now?
[02:46] <rob> LjL, heh ok
[02:46] <gnomefreak> stdin: who are you?
[02:47] <gnomefreak> oops
[02:47] <LjL> mwah
[02:47] <gnomefreak> stdout: who are you>
[02:47] <gnomefreak> stdout: why were you banned?
[02:47] <stdout> gnomefreak: i'm the brother of the guy you banned, stderr
[02:47] <stdin> "n=ljl" hmm
[02:47] <LjL> stdin: entirely a coincidence i'm sure
[02:47] <gnomefreak> still not helpful i dont remember banning him
[02:48] <gnomefreak> LjL: oh yeah everyone have you initials
[02:48] <stdin> LjL: oh, I wouldn't suggest otherwise :)
[02:48] <gnomefreak> ah
[02:48] <LjL> he's certainly a troll
[02:48] <gnomefreak> thats what you were talking about
[02:48] <stdin> I agree
[02:48] <gnomefreak> hmmmmmm
[02:49] <gnomefreak> why does that hostmask look like ive seen that tonight 
[02:49] <LjL> gnomefreak... it *is*, after all, my hostmask
[02:49] <gnomefreak> not who i thought
[02:50] <gnomefreak> LjL: i was thinking it was hacker for some reason
[02:50] <LjL> Hacker n=Hacker adsl-70-132-24-244.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net 
[02:50] <gnomefreak> did you /whois stdout? before you banned him?
[02:51] <Jucato>  --> stdout has joined this channel (n=ljl@81-208-36-87.ip.fastwebnet.it)
[02:51] <gnomefreak> his real name was your name
[02:51] <gnomefreak> his set real name
[02:51] <stdin> spooky
[02:51] <gnomefreak> thats why the initials comment came out :)
[02:53] <LjL> gnomefreak, i know it was evident it was me :P
[02:53] <LjL> i didn't mean to make it a long joke and only tell after you got bored :P
[02:53] <gnomefreak> ah
[02:55] <Jucato> :D
[03:16] <gnomefreak> Pici: problems in -offtopic?
[03:16] <Pici> gnomefreak: Just some guy who wanted to talk about demonoid so LjL and I tried to explain why it was o4o
[03:17] <gnomefreak> ok :) just watching
[03:19] <gnomefreak> bot has a bunch of lag here
[03:19] <Pici> !ping
[03:19] <ubotu> pong
[03:19] <stdin> !lag
[03:19] <ubotu> You have lag, I don't have lag
[03:20] <gnomefreak> go figure smart ass bot would say that
[03:21] <Vorian> can someone here cloak our new ubuntu member sesien?
[03:22] <seisen> I was wondering what it was
[03:24] <ubotu> kitche called the ops in #ubuntu
[03:24] <ubotu> FrancoGG called the ops in #ubuntu
[03:24] <kitche> hey we need an op in #ubuntu to lock it down
[03:25] <kitche> ah I see your there gnomefreak :)
[03:25] <Jucato> (gnomefreak is *everywhere*)
[03:26] <kitche> well it was hard to tell with everything :)
[03:26] <Pici> someone is klining them too
[03:26] <gnomefreak> saw that but there was one left so i grabbed him
[03:26] <gnomefreak> one means alot more can enter
[03:27] <Pici> Er, why are people who I'm pretty sure arent bots getting the k-line stick?
[03:28] <Bam2550> Hello, why was i banned from #ubuntu?
[03:28] <ubotu> astro76 called the ops in #ubuntu
[03:28] <ubotu> Borat called the ops in #ubuntu
[03:28] <stdin> gnomefreak: see all the "register spamspamspamspamspam" messages, seems these bots are now trying to register their nicks now so +r won't grab em
[03:28] <gnomefreak> yes
[03:29] <gnomefreak> you do know the ones that just joined are contributers i didnt seee spam messages after rob set -R
[03:29] <rob> no, they have stopped
[03:30] <gnomefreak> i know thats why i asked them to stop with !ops and !staff
[03:30] <gnomefreak> stdin: hard to reg. a k-lined nick/host
[03:31] <gnomefreak> good think i waited to go to bed
[03:31] <stdin> gnomefreak: yeah, they register before the k-line 
[03:31] <gnomefreak> that would have pissed me off 
[03:33] <kitche> I should load up my irc client that doesn't response to ctcp or that doesn't spam me with it at least
[03:34] <w0000000000000t> :)
[03:35] <gnomefreak> rob: all servers are up?
[03:35] <w0000000000000t> i hope you guys lieked the crapflood :)
[03:35] <Pici> w0000000000000t: excuse me?
[03:35] <jdong> what happened to runemaste645? curious :)
[03:35] <gnomefreak> he cant be that stupid
[03:35] <w0000000000000t> I claim the crapflood in the name of the Buttghost
[03:35] <rob> gnomefreak, yes
[03:35] <w0000000000000t> There's another crapflood coming tomorrow :D
[03:35] <w0000000000000t> bigger and bigger
[03:35] <w0000000000000t> :D
[03:35] <stdin> w0000000000000t: yeah, whatever :)
[03:36] <gnomefreak> ^^^ wasnt hard
[03:36] <Pici> smellyonion, Bam2550: how can we help you two?
[03:36] <smellyonion> Well
[03:36] <smellyonion> i got forwarded here
[03:36] <jdong> why doesn't freenode just nix all tor gateway clients?
[03:36] <Pici> Thats the first time I've seen someone come in here and claim responsibility.
[03:36] <gnomefreak> it would be nice if we were allowed to ban tor in here
[03:36] <Bam2550> I asked a while ago why i was banned. =\ From ubuntu
[03:36] <Pici> Bam2550: Did you get forwarded to another channel?
[03:37] <Bam2550> I will quote myself once more
[03:37] <Bam2550> "why was i banned from #ubuntu"?
[03:37] <rob> don't worry about the crap flood, I have something for him soon.
[03:37] <Pici> Bam2550: It was probably due to your realname.
[03:38] <gnomefreak> im thinking he wasnt banned but i will look
[03:38] <Bam2550> oh, someone was being a jerk and being like "bill thats a funny name, ahaha loser" ect
[03:38] <Bam2550> on a different server
[03:38] <Bam2550> i will change it
[03:38] <Pici> gnomefreak: realname ban on it exists in the bantracker
[03:39] <Bam2550> How do i change it o.0
[03:39] <jdong> haha, stuck an explicative in the realname and forgot how to remove it :)
[03:39] <gnomefreak> Bam2550: what client?
[03:39] <Pici> Bam2550: Its probably in your irc client properties, it really matters client to client.
[03:39] <Bam2550> mIRC
[03:39] <gnomefreak> how did you set it to what it is now?
[03:39] <gnomefreak> just reverse the steps
[03:39] <Bam2550> It wont let me change it, the text box is grayed out
[03:39] <jdong> Bam2550: probably need to disconnect first?
[03:40] <Bam2550> probably
[03:40] <Bam2550> brb then
[03:40] <gnomefreak> Pici: for sweetonion?
[03:41] <Pici> gnomefreak: for Bam
[03:41] <Pici> gnomefreak: I didnt check smellyonion's ban
[03:41] <gnomefreak> that was easy :)
[03:41] <gnomefreak> im looking for his. Bam2550 has changed his realname
[03:41] <Pici> Bam2550: Try joining #ubuntu now
[03:41] <Bam2550> Okay its changed
[03:42] <Bam2550> it works
[03:42] <Bam2550> i just have to identify
[03:42] <Pici> Bam2550: Sounds good, sorry for the wait, we just got hit hard by a bot attack.
[03:42] <Bam2550> ick
[03:43] <Bam2550> --Brb unplugging ipod--
[03:43] <Bam2550> Hmm, wow it didnt do it this time
[03:43] <Bam2550> nvm
[03:43] <Pici> gnomefreak: yeah, I dont see one for onion either, unless he tried to join before authed :/
[03:44] <stdin> Hacker should show up soon
[03:44] <gnomefreak> no i think trolling, i think he was with w0000000000
[03:45] <gnomefreak> we have exactly 400 bans set in #ubuntu atm
[03:45] <Pici> perhaps, registered just yesterday.
[03:45] <gnomefreak> 21:31 -!- litebrite [i=TOR@gateway/tor/x-ef2f611f3c08ff87]  has joined  #ubuntu-ops
[03:45] <gnomefreak> 21:32 -!- smellyonion [i=onion@unaffiliated/smellyonion]  has joined #ubuntu-ops
[03:45] <gnomefreak> one behind other
[03:46] <gnomefreak> litebrite == w00000000...
[03:46] <gnomefreak> stdin: i hope so the meds are starting to ummmmmmmm well you know :)
[03:53] <Hacker> Hi!
[03:53] <stdin> hello hacker
[03:53] <jdong> welcome back
[03:53] <gnomefreak> hi
[03:54] <Hacker> well?
[03:54] <stdin> ok, I'll begin...
[03:54] <stdin> Hacker: Have you read the Code of Conduct, especially the 1st two parts "Be considerate." and "Be respectful."? also, have you read the IRC Guidelines, especially the parts about "Bot abuse", "Language and Subject" and "Don't be annoying" ?
[03:54] <Hacker> Yes.
[03:55] <stdin> and you fully understand those?
[03:55] <Hacker> ye
[03:55] <Hacker> s
[03:55] <gnomefreak> we are always watching ;)
[03:55] <Hacker> ;-)
[03:55] <Jucato> they are... I'm mostly asleep :)
[03:55] <stdin> so you also understand why you were banned and realise that if this behaviour persists you'll be banned again (for longer)
[03:56] <Hacker> Yes.
[03:56] <gnomefreak> lol
[03:56] <gnomefreak> ok brb smoke 
[03:56] <stdin> and I take that, Hacker, as a promise that you will respect these rules and guidelines from now on?
[03:57] <Hacker> yes. definitely.
[03:57] <Jucato> good :)
[03:59] <stdin> Hacker: ok, give me a sec to remove the bans
[03:59] <Hacker> ok
[04:00] <Bam2550> Hacker, are you really a hacker?
[04:00] <Hacker> No.
[04:00] <Bam2550> Why is your name Hacker then?
[04:00] <stdin> I think that should do it
[04:01] <stdin> Hacker: you should be able to join now
[04:01] <Hacker> Thanks.
[04:02] <Jucato> ok...
[04:02] <Jucato> kinda weird that he only went online to get unbanned... then went offline... :)
[04:03] <stdin> yeah, maybe I should sneak the bans back in :p
[04:03] <Jucato> heh
[04:03] <jdong> stdin: ROFL
[04:03] <jdong> stdin: then take them out when he comes back in here
[04:04] <Pici> Bam2550: Is there anything else we can help you with?
[04:04] <stdin> yeah, and act like I can't find the bans ;)
[04:04] <Bam2550> No, should i leave?
[04:05] <stdin> Bam2550: unless you have any other business here, then there's no point being here :)
[04:05] <Bam2550> i can see when im not wanted.
[04:06] <Jucato> perhaps we could put that in the topic? avoids awkward moments? :)
[04:06] <stdin> what, like "The IRC council reserves the right to remove idlers from the channel" ?
[04:07] <stdin> or just change it to "We don't like you, so leave" :p
[04:07] <Jucato> teh latter of course :)
[04:08] <Pici> Well, we dont have a problem with some people here...
[04:08] <Pici> Like that jdong guy
[04:08] <Pici> On second thought..
[04:08] <stdin> well, ubotu 'aint so bad
[04:08] <Jucato> who's jdong?
[04:10] <gnomefreak> jdog is a good guy most of the time 
[04:11] <jdong> I'm kind of 1/8 belonging here no?
[04:11] <jdong> of course #ubuntuforums doesn't really count for much of #*buntu*-dom
[04:12] <gnomefreak> python doesnt use ifelse does it?
[04:12] <Jucato> jdong: forgive my  ignorance.. but I've always been confused as to the relationship of ubuntuforums.org with #ubuntuforums
[04:12] <jdong> gnomefreak: clarify?
[04:13] <jdong> Jucato: lol the relationship is indeed extremely unclear....
[04:13] <jdong> Jucato: #uf was started by two people who were on the staff of ubuntuforums....
[04:13] <jdong> Jucato: but apart from that, it has no relation with the forums, other than any uf.org staff member wanting ops on #uf can have it
[04:13] <gnomefreak> jdong: in py code example (and accurate) do ...ifelse {2*3=b] 
[04:13] <jdong> Jucato: it is a lower-standards, less-enforced environment than uf.org
[04:14] <jdong> gnomefreak: no, that is not python syntax...
[04:14] <gnomefreak> C uses ifelse staments
[04:14] <gnomefreak> jdong: what does py use in place of ifelse?
[04:14] <jdong> I am not familiar with that statement being a part of C either
[04:14] <Jucato> jdong: I see... coz I might be joining your ranks soon.. and I have no idea anymore of the landscape of the forums.. :(
[04:14] <Jucato> operative word: might
[04:15] <gnomefreak> jdong: hold on ill give you exact syntax for C
[04:16] <gnomefreak> i know C uses if(....) i could swear it uses ifelse after if if if is not correct
[04:16] <jdong> gnomefreak: you mean if / else if / else if / else type conditional branching?
[04:17] <Jucato> C uses if () else if () else if ()... no ifelse or elseif
[04:17] <gnomefreak> yes but i could swear C uses if(b==null) /n ifelse
[04:17] <nixternal> nope
[04:17] <gnomefreak> hmmmmm
[04:17] <Jucato> nested if...else
[04:18] <gnomefreak> what the hell uses ifelse bash?
[04:18] <gnomefreak> no if fi
[04:18] <nixternal> (b==null) ? foo : bar
[04:18] <gnomefreak> thinking
[04:18] <jdong> gnomefreak: GNU m4
[04:18] <jdong> :)
[04:18] <jdong> you poor poor thing for having m4 burnt into your brain :)
[04:18] <gnomefreak> ah its else
[04:19] <jdong> python uses if / elsif / elsif / else
[04:19] <jdong> or was it elif?
[04:19] <jdong> whichever shows up in color in your editor!
[04:19] <gnomefreak> never heard of cls()
[04:19] <gnomefreak> i just saw that 
[04:19] <nixternal> jdong: hahahahah, that is what I do when working with idiotic languages
[04:19] <nixternal> just type something until it changes color, then you know it is OK :p
[04:20] <jdong> nixternal: you know what's one thing I loved about MS Visual Studio?
[04:20] <nixternal> intellicomplete or whatever they call it?
[04:20] <jdong> nixternal: press alt+space, and the IDE tells you everything that you could possibly put in there and still have the code compile!
[04:20] <nixternal> or, how it drops down a billion solutions
[04:20] <jdong> and it is generally indeed intelligent
[04:20] <nixternal> jdong: you can do the same with netbeans for not only java, but also for C/C++ now
[04:20] <Pici> jdong: I think eclipse does the same thing, and some other IDEs
[04:20] <nixternal> eclipse is just ummm....I will leave that one alone
[04:21] <jdong> nixternal: NetBeans/Eclipse are both slower at doing it....
[04:21] <jdong> nixternal: not to mention less accurate
[04:21] <Pici> Eclipse is slow at doing a lot of things.
[04:21] <nixternal> netbeans is actually the quickest I have seen for *nix
[04:21] <jdong> I don't think they'll catch like FooType b(foo,bar); b=<alt+space>
[04:21] <nixternal> I have tried everything
[04:21] <Pici> I've been meaning to try out netbeans..
[04:21] <jdong> VS will only pick things that are compatible with FooType
[04:21] <nixternal> with netbeans, I can even do Qt work and it does the autocomplete and includes the apidocs
[04:21] <jdong> nixternal: netbeans is fastest in *nix
[04:22] <jdong> for autocomplete
[04:22] <nixternal> eclipse always crashes on me
[04:22] <jdong> nixternal: but it comes nowhere REMOTELY close to VS
[04:22] <jdong> somehow MS did magic on that part
[04:22] <nixternal> no ide comes remotely close to VS
[04:22] <Pici> nixternal: Me too. 
[04:22] <jdong> I used VS7 on a 233MHz system
[04:22] <jdong> and it was snappy, including autocomplete and forms designed
[04:22] <jdong> anyone wanna try running eclipse on a 233?
[04:22] <nixternal> hell no
[04:22] <nixternal> that would be like running it on my cell phone :)
[04:22] <Pici> I have eclipse on my usb stick.  
[04:22] <jdong> the only thing I'd dare try is vim7 omnicomplete :)
[04:23] <gnomefreak> ok going to bed before i hurt myself thinking
[04:23] <mneptok> jdong: will it mork on my 25Mhz 68040?
[04:23] <mneptok> *work
[04:23] <jdong> mneptok: only if you buy the Ultra Limited For Slow Computers Bill Gates Signed Edition :)
[04:23] <jdong> what was that actual vista edition with the absurdly long name?
[04:23] <jdong> http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Windows-Ultimate-Numbered-Signature/dp/B000M2WPIQ
[04:24] <jdong> here it is
[04:24] <mneptok> Windows Vista Home Basic Media Center Unlimited Premium Upgrade Edition
[04:24] <jdong> Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate UPGRADE Limited Numbered Signature Edition
[04:24] <jdong> sadly... it's real.
[04:25] <jdong> 22:19 -!- runemaste644 [n=Duh@adsl-4-138-165.gsp.bellsouth.net]  has joined  #ubuntuforums
[04:25] <jdong> ^^ why was this guy klined earlier?
[04:25] <jdong> he just joined #uf with nick-1
[04:27] <nalioth> Windows Vista Home Basic Media Center Unlimited Cherry-topped Premium Signature Enhanced Upgrade Edition with Special Digital Sprinkles
[04:29] <jdong> nalioth: ooh where can I buy that?
[04:30] <stdin> I may think about getting Windows Vista Premium Basic Ultimate Media Center Home Limited-Stock Todays Special Value Enhanced Edition (Upgrade)
[04:30] <stdin> but then again, I may not
[04:39] <coreymon77> stdin: jdong: if either of you do that, i would have to kill you
[04:40] <stdin> I may think about getting Windows Vista Premium Basic Ultimate Media Center Home Limited-Stock Todays Special Value Enhanced Edition (Upgrade) ?
[04:41] <mneptok> stdin: don't want the signature?
[04:41] <stdin> mneptok: MS already signed the DRM, I don't need another :p
[04:42] <stdin> maybe we should bring out "Ubuntu Premium Basic Ultimate Media Center Home Limited-Stock Todays Special Value Enhanced Edition" ? what ya think?
[04:42] <mneptok> stdin: what about a signature that's not so likely to be cracked and Dugg 8954692387 times?
[04:42] <nalioth> Windows Vista Home Basic Media Center Unlimited Cherry-topped Premium Signature Enhanced-with-Nalioth-GPG-DRM Upgrade Edition with Special Digital Sprinkles
[04:42] <mneptok> (Pony Edition)
[04:43] <coreymon77> stdin: the only difference between that and the regula buntus being a really long name
[04:43] <jdong> for my reputation's sake I'll leave out some of my pre-Ubuntu afiliations :D
[04:43] <nalioth> what DRM ?
[04:43] <mneptok> try being gay without my approval NOW, ya bastard!
[04:43] <coreymon77> :P
[04:44] <jdong> *note to self*: Need approval from mneptok before becoming gay.
[04:44] <coreymon77> lol
[04:46] <jdong> glad I made you happy :)
[04:49] <stdin> happy? you mean gay
[04:49] <jdong> same thing :)
[04:49] <stdin> reads better when you replace "happy" with "gay" tho :)
[04:49] <jdong> ROFL
[04:50] <jdong> I think my appearance would do the exact opposite :)
[04:50] <coreymon77> okay
[04:50] <coreymon77> interesting conversation
[04:51] <jdong> coreymon77: you missed when we made like 10 minutes worth of sex jokes a few hours ago....
[04:51] <coreymon77> i could look at the logs
[04:51] <jdong> ha, "grep your backlog...."
[04:52] <coreymon77> although im too busy talking on irc as my wined mirc bot on my kubuntu box from my macbook through freenx
[04:52] <jdong> that's an intense setup :)
[04:52] <coreymon77> i know thats a lot of layers
[04:52] <jdong> do you run OS X or Linux on your macbook
[04:52] <jdong> (wow this is OT)
[04:52] <coreymon77> epecially since my kubuntu box is right beside me
[04:52] <coreymon77> but i finally got freenx set up
[04:53] <coreymon77> so im hving fun with it
[04:53] <coreymon77> :P:P
[04:53] <coreymon77> jdong: osx
[04:53] <jdong> coreymon77: likewise here....
[04:53] <stdin> today I ran Mac OSX on my x66 laptop :)
[04:53] <jdong> coreymon77: I would be more convinced to run Gutsy on it if there weren't a 1:45 battery discrepancy
[04:54] <stdin> x86 rather
[04:54] <coreymon77> jdong: by doing that i am effectively going hrouh 3 oses jsut to do something that i can do on any one of them natively
[04:54] <coreymon77> jdong: just for the heck of it
[04:55] <jdong> stdin: I had a very similar setup going....
[04:55] <coreymon77> stdin: and?
[04:55] <coreymon77> stdin: like it?
[04:55] <jdong> stdin: stopped when all my attempts to get wifi running failed
[04:55] <stdin> http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7411/test4eu5.jpg < proof
[04:55] <coreymon77> i could do that on my kubuntu box
[04:55] <coreymon77> but im a purist
[04:55] <jdong> stdin: spent 4-5hrs trying to port BSD wpi(4) to Darwin.....
[04:55] <coreymon77> im running osx on an actual mac
[04:55] <jdong> then just said screw it and dropped 1400 for a macbook
[04:55] <coreymon77> jdong: good idea
[04:55] <stdin> coreymon77: need to use it more, only just installed it
[04:55] <jdong> stdin: silly boy that doesn't count :)
[04:56] <jdong> stdin: OSX86 native is the way to go
[04:56] <coreymon77> jdong: you mean running it on an actual mac right?
[04:56] <jdong> coreymon77: or a very very nicely thought out/hacked hackintosh setup
[04:56] <coreymon77> jdong: because osx86 means running it on not a mac
[04:56] <jdong> coreymon77: moral/legal issues aside
[04:56] <stdin> I used the PPC version, because it has "Power" in it's name
[04:56] <stdin> :)
[04:57] <jdong> coreymon77: I respect the people who actually get OSX running on non-apple hardware through their own hard work and ingenuity
[04:57] <coreymon77> so do i
[04:57] <jdong> I am disgusted by those who download some random torrent, fail to read SIMPLE instructions to set it up... then walk off saying OS X sucks.
[04:57] <coreymon77> but, even the huge pirate that i am, apple is probably the one company id rather not pirate from
[04:58] <jdong> coreymon77: I'd consider hackintosh to be an educational exercise, not a permanent replacement for a mac
[04:58] <coreymon77> for apple stuff, id rather actually pay for it, get it normally
[04:58] <jdong> coreymon77: Apple's current pricing schemes ofr their OS'es is pretty reasonable to me for the quality product I am getting....
[04:58] <coreymon77> if course
[04:59] <jdong> coreymon77: and the most crucial part of the Apple experience for me is I don't worry a bit about the system. Apple's products and services take care of it for me
[04:59] <coreymon77> its the same thing as saying running doze xp with vmware is the same thing as running it natively
[04:59] <stdin> shame Apple are EVIL tho
[04:59] <jdong> I dislike Apple's deliberate practice of locking out their hardware from software modifications
[05:00] <jdong> i.e. how the new-generation iPods are all firmware-encrypted
[05:00] <jdong> and most likely will never ever get rockbox
[05:00] <coreymon77> no matter what you do, stuff like hackintosh with never be the same as getting a real mac
[05:00] <jdong> coreymon77: not to say that you can't get very very close :)
[05:00] <jdong> with enough Darwin elbow grease
[05:00] <coreymon77> too much work
[05:00] <jdong> aye
[05:01] <jdong> some people consider it "fun" though :)
[05:01] <jdong> i'm one of those, when I am not bogged down with schoolwork
[05:01] <coreymon77> with all the time you spend trying to get it to work, you could probably earn enough money to buy a real mac in the first place
[05:01] <jdong> aye, but then you don't get to learn about OS X's guts :)
[05:02] <jdong> ooh EFI update...
[05:02] <coreymon77> i know the major complaint about macs are they are more pricet
[05:02] <coreymon77> pricey*
[05:02] <coreymon77> jdong: i know, i got it earlier today
[05:02] <jdong> coreymon77: I don't agree with that complaint :)
[05:02] <coreymon77> and its true
[05:02] <coreymon77> they are more expensive
[05:02] <coreymon77> but
[05:02] <jdong> coreymon77: I think Apple's very price-competitive at their formfactor
[05:02] <jdong> coreymon77: I was never intending on getting a macbook actually... I was merely looking at lightweight compact notebooks
[05:02] <coreymon77> what im saying is that this macbook was not cheap
[05:03] <jdong> coreymon77: and could not find a comparable PC one at similar prices, that oculd stand a chance of running a *nix OS
[05:03] <coreymon77> jdong: specs?
[05:03] <jdong> coreymon77: 3rd gen 2.16 c2d, 2GB RAM, 160GB  HDD, 1399 or so
[05:04] <jdong> I was trying to build comparable systems at lenovo and dell in the same size factor
[05:04] <jdong> and could not match Apple's prices
[05:05] <coreymon77> with taxes
[05:05] <coreymon77> this thing was close to a good $2000 dollars
[05:05] <jdong> coreymon77: yeah, prices have come down since then, though
[05:06] <jdong> and my 2GB RAM was added on after-market
[05:06] <coreymon77> im talking with taxes
[05:06] <coreymon77> before taxes it was 1600
[05:06] <jdong> coreymon77: where do you live?
[05:06] <coreymon77> sorry, dont say that stuf
[05:07] <coreymon77> and my dad just got a dell that with rebate was under 1000
[05:07] <coreymon77> so this was definitely more expensive
[05:07] <coreymon77> but the difference is
[05:07] <coreymon77> 3-5 years from now
[05:07] <coreymon77> i could and may still be using this thing
[05:07] <jdong> coreymon77: Dell's in his price range are not in the same hardware/quality class as Apples.
[05:07] <coreymon77> which is much more than i can say about any dell computer
[05:08] <coreymon77> sure, macs are more expensive, there is no denying that mathematically
[05:08] <coreymon77> but they are better comptuers
[05:08] <coreymon77> its higher quallity
[05:08] <stdin> (in your opinion)
[05:08] <coreymon77> this laptop is gonna last me a good long while
[05:09] <jdong> ooh fantastic, looks like new EFI update fixed the keyboard race condition on safe-sleep resume
[05:09] <jdong> with trial count of 2.
[05:09] <coreymon77> huh?
[05:09] <coreymon77> i dont even know what that firmware thing did
[05:10] <jdong> coreymon77: it is a common MB/MBP bug that if a system goes into hibernation sleep (i.e. you set sleepmode>=3 via pmuset, or you lost battery while system was in normal sleep), the keyboard might be deead upon resume
[05:10] <jdong> it happens with 80%+ frequency
[05:11] <jdong> I have done 5 cycles of this now, and cannot reproduce the bug anymore.
[05:11] <coreymon77> oh, never knew that
[05:12] <jdong> few people ever test the deep sleep ting
[05:12] <jdong> it's  a hidden feature of the OS activated by some shell-scripting hackjobs
[05:12] <coreymon77> i just do the close the lid sleep thing
[05:12] <jdong> that is the hybrid safe-sleep
[05:12] <jdong> it does a hibernate (write out to disk), but then goes into sleep
[05:12] <jdong> so if your power source stays alive, wakeup will be instant wake from sleep
[05:13] <jdong> but if you lose your battery, the system just resumes from hibernate by copying from disk to RAM
[05:13] <jdong> in the latter scenario it was common for the system to resume with a dead keyboard
[05:13] <jdong> commonly reported on mac forums with no workaround
[05:13] <coreymon77> technobabble
[05:13] <jdong> it is rumored to be a race-condition in the EFI where the system assigns the IR controller the job of being keyboard
[05:13] <coreymon77> oh and btw, that pm from snowbot, thats me
[05:13] <jdong> coreymon77: I realized :)
[05:14] <Amaranth> jdong: Heh, I can't even suspend :(
[05:14] <Amaranth> Stop telling me about how awesome your suspend is
[05:14] <jdong> Amaranth: aww you poor thing :)
[05:14] <jdong> then ducks!
[05:14] <Amaranth> I get 3 easily on this beast
[05:15] <Amaranth> Wait, do you have a 17" MBP?
[05:15] <jdong> no, standard macbook
[05:15] <Amaranth> ok then, my battery life is alright :)
[05:15] <jdong> :)
[05:15] <Amaranth> If I turn off wifi it goes up to almost 4
[05:15] <jdong> if I turn off wifi I peak at around 6:00
[05:16] <Amaranth> WinXP gets me about 2 to 2.5
[05:16] <coreymon77> lol
[05:16] <Amaranth> So I'm happy :)
[05:16] <jdong> if I turn off backlight and work on strong background lighting, I can get around 9hrs of work done
[05:16] <Amaranth> I can't turn off my backlight
[05:16] <coreymon77> jdong: i just plug it in
[05:16] <Amaranth> I can't even turn it down, it's an 'ultra bright'
[05:17] <Amaranth> I'm about to try a stock kernel
[05:17] <Amaranth> But then I have to get my iwl3945 and nvidia on my own
[05:17] <Amaranth> But if it suspends...
[05:17] <jdong> linux suspend-foo drives me nuts
[05:17] <jdong> not even all standard intel hardware do it properly
[05:18] <Amaranth> This is the first time it's been really broken since dapper
[05:18] <jdong> mako's thinkpad only S3->alive 90% of the time.
[05:18] <Amaranth> I mean, since it started working with dapper
[05:18] <jdong> which is not a good percentage for doing it long term
[05:18] <Amaranth> Shitty hardware and no specifications
[05:20] <coreymon77> huh?
[05:20] <coreymon77> i found that feisty completely fixed the suspend problems
[05:20] <coreymon77> mine hibernates perfectly
[05:21] <Amaranth> 7.04 worked great for me too
[05:21] <coreymon77> an fix that i found incredibly useful
[05:21] <Amaranth> 7.10 breaks it :/
[05:21] <coreymon77> thats because its a beta
[05:21] <Amaranth> Uh
[05:22] <Amaranth> coreymon77: Do you have any idea how suspend and/or the Ubuntu development process works?
[05:24] <Amaranth> So, I'm thinking mute NotSure in offtopic, any objections?
[05:33] <gnomefreak> go for it (but im still sleeping) his attitude that he hates this and and him more than him is just alot of bs to me but i guess we dont have rules agianst it
[06:33] <ubotu> In #ubuntu, smacfarl said: ubotu: so is there a good way to convert from wma lossless to flac?