pwnguinif a build fails on ia64 because debhelper wasn't installed, does lp automatically resubmit?12:35
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sorenNafallo: Opal?01:35
sorenNafallo: Ah, nm.01:37
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=== lamont rescores perl/i386 so that it'll get built sooner and make things installable again. sigh
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lamontand perl is building02:21
lamontit'll be nice when the buildds can install debhelper again.02:21
lamontslangasek: sorry02:21
lamontwell, partially02:22
lamontpoor timing on having oo.o, gcc-4.2, and perl all hit together02:22
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calcwhee that was fun... ate dinner out got bad enough 'gas' that it caused me to vomit when i got home :-\02:50
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zzxcAre there any plans to implement a binary diff system (eg. debiff) in the apt interface for a future release?03:43
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zzxcFor something like that to work with the Ubuntu live cd, the binary diff program would have to patch individual binaries, instead of entire .deb archives, to create the new .deb archive to install.  This would require considerable installation effort, and I am not near familiar with apt to do it, but it would make updating Firefox go from a 7MB download to a 200KB download.03:48
RAOFzzxc: Debian have such a system rolled out already, I think.03:49
_MMA_There's also Conary.03:49
RAOFzzxc: They certainly do for repository information, I'm not sure about actual packages though.03:50
zzxcRAOF: It works with entire .deb archives, though, if I recall correctly.03:50
zzxcYes, repository information is of course synced intelligently, but package syncing is much harder - especially if no .deb files are on the system to begin with.03:50
johanbrFor the mirrors, processing power is often more scarce a resource than bandwidth.03:51
RAOFThere's also at least one project to make apt use zsync, a server-processor-friendly version of rsync.03:51
zzxcThe processing would be done only once; the servers would simply store a binary diff from the last version of the package.03:52
johanbrAnd how would that work if your own version is not the latest one?03:52
zzxcThen you would need an entire download.03:52
zzxcAlternatively, the versions could be installed one-at-a-time until the latest version is achieved.03:53
johanbrI'm not sure that going from version N to version N+1 is the most common case for updates.03:53
zzxcRight now, it's not the most common case.  But for security, it should be.03:53
zzxcExisting .deb diff software would have to be reworked for this to happen.  For example, the binary diff might be a modified .deb file.  Instead of containing entire binaries, it would contain binary diffs from the last version.  Apt would then have to be modified to require the previous package to be installed, and to properly apply the binary diffs.  If an error occured during package extraction (for example, one of the files that needs03:57
Nafallogod damn. keescook: any way to check which processes are using openssl and therefor needs a restart?03:58
Nafallohmm. might actually work...03:59
RAOFzzxc: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/apt-sync might interest you.04:01
Nafallothanks aj04:01
Nafalloajmitch: hmm... everything :-(04:02
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zzxcRAOF: How close is that to an implementation?04:05
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zzxcRAOF: Actually, it seems that it requires the package file be on the remote system - which is not the case for most end-users.04:07
Nafallodone :-)04:10
Nafallothe one affected mostly is probably my ntp :-/04:10
NafalloI seeded 547GB for the beta. that should be enough damnit :-)04:12
zzxcI think I might try to investigate the feasibility of a "partial .deb file", and post something to one of the debian mailing lists.  It would be trivial to have a folder on each mirror called "partial" to host partial packages.  This is how Mozilla does it.04:12
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zzxcIt's definately a turn-off to a user with a slow connection to realize that 100MB of updates required for security.04:14
desrtzzxc; best bet, i think, is to have some sort of [something]  that modifies the user's system in-place04:14
desrtzzxc; including performing the actual changes and modifying the dpkg state to pretend that the new version has been installed04:14
zzxcdesrt: That would seem to be risky, to 'pretend' to install packages while avoiding apt entirely.04:15
desrtzzxc; in many cases all you'd be doing is bumping the version number of the installed package04:16
desrtsince when security updates occur you have to install all of the binary packages from that given source package and probably only one of them has actually changed04:16
zzxcdesrt: Implementing something like that would seem to be 'reinventing the wheel' with Apt.  In addition, it would have to stay up-to-date with the current apt version to avoid major problems.04:17
desrtit's actually completely orthogonal to apt04:18
zzxcI suppose for security updates, where the only change is changes to existing binaries, such a solution would work.04:18
desrtif you wanted to get really fancy you could do all sorts of neat binary-patching techniques04:18
zzxcdesrt: It would seem to be difficult, however, to have a general tool that would generate these "update instructions" from deb files in the general case.04:20
desrtthis is the fun part :D04:20
desrtseriously, though: why not just extract the two debs and run diff?04:21
zzxcTools for that exist.  However, the old version's .deb doesn't exist on the remote computer.04:21
desrtwho the hell is david portwood?04:21
desrti report a problem with the livecd and my bug gets "New => Invalid" with "Compiz package is not from the official Ubuntu repositories, and as such is not supported here."04:22
desrthave i missed something?04:23
zzxcA 'partial .deb', on the other hand, would be able to be extracted into a 'full .deb' using existing binaries (such as soffice.bin) on the remote machine.04:23
zzxcThus, OOo 2.3.0-> might be 5MB instead of 100MB.04:24
Burgundaviazzxc: are you talking about binary diffs?04:25
Burgundaviagoogle deb binary diffs04:25
zzxcBurgundavia: Sort of.  I'm talking about a partial deb that *contains* binary diffs being used to update software on a computer in which no existing .deb to patch exists.04:30
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mneptokFWIW, dm-crypt as part of d-i greatly excites my wriggly bits.04:37
mneptokas well as my full head latex Bruce Schneier mask04:38
realistzzxc: you can rebuild the .deb from already installed packages, then binary patching that package, you mean?04:38
realistzzxc: where the archive cache has been previously cleaned?04:39
zzxcWith live cd installs, there never is an archive cache.04:40
realistI hadn't noticed that, strange.04:41
zzxcSuch a technique would probably not try to rebuild the existing .deb archive.  Rather, it would download a new .deb archive from a mirror that would contain binary diffs instead of entire binaries.  New binaries would be in the .deb file in their entirety, and files that may be edited (such as configuration files) would not be diff'ed either.04:43
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zzxcSome program would then convert the binary diffs inside the .deb file into full binaries, by patching binaries on the user's system.  The user would then have a full .deb file that could be normally installed as normal.04:44
realistI see, so download binary patches as a .deb, then patch existing installed binaries, _then_ build the new .deb?04:47
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pavanubuntu (almost) no functional after attempted upgrade to gutsy 7.10 .. can i please get some help.. thanks05:15
RAOFpavan: Help in #ubuntu+105:15
RAOFpavan: Which also has the advantage of having more people in it :)05:16
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minghuaIs there any words about mass build failures on all buildds of different arches?05:22
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realistrealist: I think it might be cheaper calculating the binary diffs client side, than storing diffs between every package release on the server05:30
realistzzxc rather.05:30
realistTalking to myself again :-)05:31
realistThen again, Canonical might have the funds for such a trade-off.05:31
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zzxcrealist: How could the diff be calculated on the client side?05:32
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realistzzxc: by storing checksums of the package, rather than diffs between releases05:33
zzxcI'm not sure what you mean.05:33
zzxcTo compute the diff, the computer would need access to both the old and new versions.  Thus, the client computer would be unable to do it.05:34
zzxcStoring and pushing binary diffs stored as "partial .deb files", as I described earlier, could be done with the exsting mirrors.  There would just be two .deb files for each update, rather than one.05:35
realistYou would need to rsync/zsync the blocks with different checksums05:38
realistSo it's not so much patching, as syncing, the packages05:38
realistIf the original .deb doesn't exist, you could regenerate it from the installed binaries05:39
minghuarealist: Generally speaking you aren't guaranteed to reconstruct a .deb from installed binaries.05:40
realistminghua: you could just sync the binaries listed in the package meta-data then05:42
minghuarealist: True.  I was not arguing against your "rsync-like update" idea, just pointing out some inaccuracy in your statement.05:44
realistminghua: fair call.05:45
realistWhat would be interesting to see, is this type of patch or sync capability, combined with debtorrent05:48
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zzxcrealist: Are there not enough ubuntu package mirrors for your liking :)05:52
dongthaoI want to join ubuntu developers, how can I begin?05:52
dongthaoplease help me :(05:53
realistzzxc: I just like the idea of distributed networks, fewer points of failure, etc05:54
RAOFdongthao: #ubuntu-motu is a better place to start.05:54
RAOFdongthao: wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU05:54
RAOFdongthao: There's all sorts of stuff to do :)05:54
dongthaoI've create launch-pad account05:54
dongthaobut there're too many teams05:55
dongthaoI don't know where to begin05:55
realistFind something that interests you, for a start05:55
RAOFdongthao: How do you want to help?  What do you want to do?  Translation, packaging, programming, etc.05:56
dongthaoI want programming :)05:56
dongthaoI'm learning and working with python05:57
pwnguindongthao: do you know what a diff is?05:57
dongthaoI think a little :)05:57
dongthaoI often use it in compare files05:57
dongthaosometimes in patching05:57
pwnguincheck out that wiki page05:58
pwnguinthe MOTU just had a blog about how to get started05:58
RAOFdongthao: What sort of project might you be interested in?  There are a bunch of Ubuntu python projects, or you could write a gnome-screensaver hack configurator :)05:58
dongthaoit sounds interesting05:59
minghuaRAOF: gnome-screensaver's configuration indeed sucks.05:59
dongthaoI have some hacks in gnome-app-install05:59
dongthaobut just for fun in free time05:59
RAOFdongthao: What that would entail is being able to write .desktop files, it'd be pretty simple.06:00
RAOFdongthao: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=418759 is a forum thread containing some information about that.06:01
dongthaoI modify some source from it06:01
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dongthaomostly in translating and rearrange the columns06:02
=== RAOF was going to look into it at *some* point, but I'm exceptionally bad at time-management, so...
pwnguinif you really want to hack gnome-screensaver06:02
pwnguinmake it accept pam06:02
RAOFpwnguin: Not hack *on* gnome-screensaver, write a GUI for configuring xscreensaver hacks.06:03
RAOFpwnguin: Of course, pamifying could be good, too.06:03
fabbionesiretart: next time you modify a postinst please make sure it actually runs.. or at least sh -n it06:03
pwnguinRAOF: it'd be handy for my fingerprint reader ;)06:04
dongthaoI think it's neccesary06:04
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dongthaoanyone like that task?06:04
pwnguinim not sure what task you're thinking of, but it's all yours06:05
RAOFdongthao: I'll join you in it if you want to start it up.  You'd probably want to create a gnome-screensaver-config project on launchpad, use LP for bzr hosting, and write it in python :)06:05
realistpamifying gnome-screensaver06:05
dongthaoi'm a very new in ubuntu development06:06
dongthaoevent dun know clearly about lauchpad06:06
dongthaoi'm studying on it06:07
RAOFdongthao: This wouldn't strictly be ubuntu development, but it *would* be very useful :)06:07
dongthaoi like it06:07
pwnguindongthao: joing #ubuntu-motu, and check out https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=bitesize06:07
dongthaoso anyone start it06:07
dongthaoi'll join with you06:07
pwnguindongthao: those are supposed to be good "learning" bugs06:07
dongthaoi'll check it now06:07
RAOFThat's if you want to help by packaging, of course :)06:08
dongthaoi'll training experence :D06:08
pwnguinpackaging and dev'ing go hand in hand really06:08
RAOFpwnguin: No, not really.06:08
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dongthaoi also think they go hand in hand06:10
pwnguini mean, if you want changes into ubuntu, you at least need to know how to get the current source, modify it, and pass it back06:10
RAOFpwnguin: You may notice that almost all the software we package isn't packaged by the developer(s).06:10
minghuapwnguin, realist: What exactly does "pam-ifying gnome-screensaver" mean?  Doesn't gnome-screensaver ship /etc/pam.d/gnome-screensaver in Ubuntu?06:10
RAOFOh, that.  Yes.06:10
pwnguinim not saying that upstream should be providing a debian dir06:10
pwnguinthough its handy as a reference06:11
realistminghua: I don't even use gnome :-)06:11
pwnguinminghua: it doesn't work with pam_thinkfinger06:13
pwnguini havent yet dug into why06:13
RAOFpwnguin: Added pam_thinkfinger to /etc/pam.d/common-auth ?06:14
minghuapwnguin: Okay.  Then you should have said "pam_thinkfinger-ifying". ;-)06:14
pwnguinRAOF: ages ago06:14
RAOFFair enough :)06:14
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pwnguinRAOF: skimming some stuff suggested an ACL06:14
pwnguini wasnt even aware ext3 had acls06:14
pwnguinbut apparently FC ships with em06:14
RAOFYeah. What doesn't?06:15
realistEven ffs has acls.06:15
pwnguini figured it was just unix permissions06:17
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Hobbsee(in the opposite order007:17
LaserJockhi Hobbsee07:19
mneptoki ...07:21
mneptoki need to walk away07:21
mneptokjust ... walk away07:21
Hobbseehi LaserJock07:21
Hobbseemneptok: yes, you do.  go drown yourself in some beer.07:22
pwnguinmneptok: maybe a first class ticket to Australia is in order :D07:22
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LaserJockanybody here got any experience with vcs imports?07:26
BurgundaviaHobbsee: ouch, all I can say is ouch07:26
HobbseeBurgundavia: heh.07:26
kylemmneptok, pfft, quoting yourself on /Quotes is discouraged. ;-)07:29
mneptokkylem: dude. i know the pressure i just absorbed. i get a back-pat.07:32
mneptokyou know it, too.07:32
mneptokyou know how difficult that was yor me.07:33
mneptoki'm still kinda shaking.07:33
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=== Hobbsee thinks you all have very dirty minds.
=== desrt throws soil at Hobbsee
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ajmitchhello Hobbsee07:48
Hobbseehi ajmitch07:48
ajmitchnice to see you07:48
Hobbseehi ogra07:48
ograhey he07:48
=== desrt is muddied
=== Treenaks quickly Ctrl+C's his upgrade
ajmitchTreenaks: some breakage ahead?07:52
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Treenaksajmitch: tip of the day: don't run apt-get -y dist-upgrade07:53
Treenaksit tried to deinstall perl.. and everything depending on it07:53
ajmitchoh, noone would be silly enough to do that07:53
Treenakswhich is pretty much everything07:53
LaserJockyeah, it seems like perl is important for some reason07:54
pwnguinperl seems to have broken most of the buildqueues as well07:54
ajmitchcan we punt perl to universe?07:54
LaserJocksounds sane ;-)07:56
Treenakswell, only ntp and console-setup seem to depend on it :)07:56
ajmitchit shouldn't take long to rewrite debhelper in python07:57
Treenaksyay for remove vs purge.. system fixed :)08:02
calcanyone else notice apt-get being buggy on dist-upgrade lately?08:09
calcbug 14661408:10
ubotuLaunchpad bug 146614 in apt "apt-get dist-upgrade fails due to bogus(?) unmet dependencies" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14661408:10
slangaseksorry, I've only noticed that you broke ooo installability. :)08:10
calcheh it installed fine for me :)08:10
calcwrt apt-get issue apt-get upgrade works fine for me but apt-get dist-upgrade complains of installed packages not being installed and that they won't be installed since obviously they already are08:11
frostburnmines complaining about perl and a dep that isn't in the repo08:11
calcfrostburn: hmm shouldn't that just cause it to hold perl?08:12
calcapt-get upgrade held several packages on my system08:12
calcThe following packages have been kept back: gnome-cards-data gnome-games-data libperl5.8 perl perl-base tracker tracker-search-tool08:12
calc0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 7 not upgraded.08:12
frostburnyou can install the rest of them08:13
frostburnexcept perl stuff08:13
calci guess dselect upgrade calls the same code as apt-get dist-upgrade because it doesn't work either with the same output08:14
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frostburncalc you on amd64?08:18
calcfrostburn: yes08:18
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frostburnluckyone, you, and me all have the same prob =] 08:19
calcfrostburn: follow up to 146614 noting you have the same problem ;)08:19
calccjwatson: you were the last to touch apt, any idea if what you changed could have caused the issue?08:20
calcidle 10hr, he'll be back soon maybe ;)08:21
slangasekwhy do you suppose it's a bug in apt, rather than simply a normal side-effect of uninstallable packages in the archive?08:21
calcslangasek: er shouldn't it tell us what is uninstallable then?08:21
slangaseknever has before08:22
frostburnapt is fine08:22
calcslangasek: i thought it used to complain about the packages that were actually uninstallable08:22
slangasekyou only get told about which packages are uninstallable if you request packages to be installed by name08:22
calcso it is normal for apt to complain about packages that are perfectly fine and installed when it can't install some other random package, and not mention that package at all?08:23
calci haven't had dselect->upgrade break me in so long i can't remember the last time it did08:23
calcer for me08:23
calceg in this case it complains about xbase-client, xclock, xfd, xlogo, xorg, xterm all of which are installed and don't have new versions08:24
=== calc notes if it is normal for that to happen apt is a big stinking pile
TheMusocalc: have you managed to look at bug 140673 yet? I know its not a priority for you, but if you could look into it, it would be great for helping us get deacent accessibility for screen reader users for the final release.08:24
ubotuLaunchpad bug 140673 in espeak "Espeak + portaudio v19 causes undesirable lock-ups." [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14067308:24
calcTheMuso: looking08:25
calcTheMuso: i can drop portaudio dep from ooo completely if that is agreeable, esp since it seems to cause problems in this case08:26
calcTheMuso: i just recently added it anyway so its not a big deal08:26
TheMusocalc: I'm convinced, but I'm probably not the one needing convincing.08:27
TheMusocalc: If you could leave a comment, and I think pitti should be good with it/. I can then get an upload for espeak done. Thanks a lot.08:27
calcyea i added a comment just now08:29
TheMusocalc: Thanks again.08:30
calcno problem :)08:30
luckyoneanything I can help with to fix the dependencies issue with xorg and xbase-clients08:33
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calcluckyone: it appears it may just be apt is a pos issue and complains about the wrong thing08:33
calcluckyone: apt-get upgrade should work for you, it is probably perl being broken that caused the weird apt error message08:33
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nb-auany idea when perl-modules will be updated anyone?08:34
luckyonehuh, is there a link I can follow up with this on?08:34
luckyoneI *need* to head to bed08:34
luckyonebut *need* to fix this... tomorrow08:34
calcluckyone: just run apt-get upgrade and go to bed, perl will probably be fixed tomorrow08:34
Hobbseecalc: or monday.  it is a saturday todya.08:35
calcluckyone: apt-get dist-upgrade will probably be broken until perl is fixed08:35
calcluckyone: see what Hobbsee said08:35
luckyoneyeah, doesn't work08:35
calcluckyone: er apt-get upgrade worked for me08:35
calcluckyone: it was apt-get dist-upgrade that failed on my box08:35
luckyoneI concur08:36
luckyonegood to know that upgrade still works08:36
luckyoneI was afraid I wouldn't be able to install packages08:36
calcok, so just don't use dist-upgrade until perl is fixed :)08:36
calcand hopefully someone can beat apt up enough that it complains about the actual broken packages in the future08:37
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calcoh i know what is different about the perl thing wrt dselect->upgrade08:38
luckyoneI also have a stupid question about media players that can leverage dual core processors08:38
Hobbseeoh yay, breakage.08:38
calcusually dselect determines something is fubar and doesn't try to upgrade it, but didn't figure out how to do it correctly in this case08:38
luckyonedoes such a program exist?08:38
calcso it passed it on to apt which choked on perl08:38
=== Hobbsee blames calc
calcHobbsee: 8-P08:40
frostburnluckyone, what do you mean?08:41
Hobbseecalc: http://rafb.net/p/Brxzd428.html08:41
calcHobbsee: how recently did you try that?08:42
Hobbseecalc: just now08:42
calcHobbsee: it may be that your openoffice.org-l10n-* is out of date still08:42
calcHobbsee: check to see if you see 1:2.3.0-1ubuntu2 versions available for them as well08:43
Hobbseecalc: *eyebrow raise*08:43
calcHobbsee: they are on the main mirror already but maybe not in au08:43
calcthe output you showed there showed that openoffice.org-common had not been updated but wasn't in the list to up date either afaict08:44
Hobbseecalc: dude, did you even *look* at the error log?08:44
Hobbseeoh wait,08:44
calcHobbsee: yea :P08:44
Hobbseewhy do i have openoffice.org-l10n-en-za:installed?08:44
calcbecause its pulled in by language-support-en probably08:44
Hobbseeoh, langsupporten08:45
calcand if the mirror you are using doesn't have up to date version of that it might be holding back ooo08:45
calcthough its already on some of the mirrors at least08:45
=== Hobbsee uses two sets of mirrors.
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nb-aucalc, for me i had to force  OO then lang support would install08:45
Hobbseewhether i missed a mirror pulse in the last ~15 mins is an interesting question, though08:45
Hobbseecalc: i don tleave myself only on the au mirror.  in fact, i use a different au mirror, and a.u.c08:46
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Hobbseebecause it's not worth having the packages ~12+ hours out of date08:46
calcit finished building 5 hours ago, not sure when it hit the mirrors08:46
calcnb-au: oh08:46
Hobbseeoh, so this one built :P08:46
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calcof course ;)08:46
calcit builds at least some of the time ;)08:46
ajmitchHobbsee: you sound like a born sceptic08:47
Hobbseeoh, here we are08:47
Hobbseeyes, force installing it works.08:47
Hobbseeajmitch: i must have done too much RM stuff.08:47
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nb-auyou should be able to slowly work your way down to the perl files by messing around in apt08:48
=== calc notes it just worked for him but he is pointed at the main a.u.c site
calcif you use dselect you can just put the perl files on hold and it will automatically get the rest08:48
nb-auhehe, ive already manually half installed them :/08:49
=== Hobbsee doesnt have perl installed anyway
nb-auHobbsee, its default08:49
=== pwnguin wonders how you get rid of perl
calcnb-au: alternatively you can use dpkg --set-selections to put them on hold if you don't like dselect ;)08:50
Hobbseeoh, yes i do.08:50
Hobbseei didnt get perl falling over and dying, though08:50
nb-aucalc, i mean i somehow got perl to half upgrade to 7ubuntu308:50
nb-aubefore i realised it was mssing packages08:50
Hobbseeoh, only ubuntu2 on my mirror08:50
calcnb-au: oh ok08:50
Hobbseeand a.u.c, it looks like08:50
nb-auim on main08:51
calcHobbsee: 1ubuntu2 is the current ooo packages08:51
calcHobbsee: they should install fine if they are all there, it worked for me off of a.u.c08:51
Hobbseecalc: i meant of perl08:51
calcHobbsee: oh ok, nm08:51
calctime for me to go to bed, 2am08:51
KstringsHrm...  What am I doing wrong here.  apt-get source <package> pbuilder build <package> dpkg -i <package>  then synaptic tells me that I need to update <package> to the same version.08:52
nb-auso i ihave perl and perlbase as u3, with lib-perl as u2 but with upgrade avail, and perl-modules at u2 with no upgrade available, and im waiting for that upgrade08:52
calcKstrings: you probably should set it to hold after installing the manual version unless you want the one from the archive08:52
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nb-aulooks like some stuff have been updated (namedly perl)09:06
nb-augive it a go :)09:07
nb-auhmm seems not, have to go manual09:09
nb-auHOLY CRAP09:11
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frostburndo i have to recompile kaffeine/totem to get dvd playback09:35
siretartfabbione: oooops - sorry. willdo next time :(09:36
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nb-aufrostburn, shouldnt09:37
nb-aushould work with dvdcss09:37
frostburnaye, it's installed already09:38
nb-aui watched 2 dvds back in tribe 309:39
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frostburnyeah it was working in 7.0409:39
frostburni'll keep plugging at it09:39
nb-autried mplayer?09:41
nb-auif it doesnt play it that something is badly amiss09:41
nb-auor maybe u dont have codecs09:42
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KstringsDoes anyone know why aptitude thinks you need to update packages compiled from source (pbuilder) when they are the same version?10:01
Hobbseesounds like a #ubuntu+1 type question10:03
Hobbseebut, it's because you probably compiled the same version as what's in the repos - and iirc, it will usually try to use the repo version, not your own.10:04
Hobbseedue to apt priorities10:04
Treenaksit will10:04
Treenaksbut I usually fix that either by setting the package status to 'hold', or setting the version a bit higher (but not as high as an update would set it)10:05
ajmitchwhich is where ~ in versions comes in handy10:06
KstringsThe ~ is?10:07
Hobbseehm, will keybuk eat me for uploading udev?10:09
ajmitchHobbsee: yes, fabbione already uploaded a new version10:09
TreenaksHobbsee: he might, depends on how buggy you made it ;)10:09
Hobbseeajmitch: awesome.  that was the one.10:10
ajmitchKstrings: it's used to denote that a version is less than another, eg 1.2.3-1ubuntu1~ppa110:10
ajmitchHobbsee: yeah, good thing fabbione uploaded it first, otherwise I would have done uploaded my fix :)10:10
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ajmitchthe only problem is that it failed to build on !i386, and is in the build queue for i38610:12
Hobbseeoh dear10:14
ajmitchone of those days...10:14
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=== Mez sighs
Mezand now my DVD drive / HDD#'s show as s * not h* meaning I cant watch DVDs on my PC (shdparm -d wont work)10:27
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ajmitchMithrandir: I think that there'll be a large number of packages uploaded recently that will need given back on !i386 due to a perl upload - perl was made uninstallable by perl-modules on !i386 until it was built on i38610:36
ajmitchone important one to give back is udev, for a typo fix10:37
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Mithrandirajmitch,Hobbsee : I'll give-back what's failed.10:41
ajmitchthanks :)10:41
Hobbseethanks Mithrandir10:41
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Mithrandirthere, stuff given back.11:10
Hobbseethanks Mithrandir11:11
=== Hobbsee uploads kdebase
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slytherinI had sent a mail to ubuntu-devel-discuss team about theora beta 1 poackages. Should I wait for some testing feedback or just go ahead and file a freeze exception bug?11:28
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RAOFslytherin: If you're prepared to follow the freeze exception process, there's a compelling reason for theora beta 1, and it doesn't break anything, I'd say file a freeze exception bug.  There's been someone looking at this in here before.  Was that you?11:33
slytherinRAOF: If that was yesterday then it was me.11:34
RAOFThere was someone before yesterday, too, but I can't remember who it was.11:34
slytherinRAOF: Till now I have tested totem, mplayer, and ffmpeg2theora and no breakage found. But there are too many rdepends, so dholbach suggested me to send mail.11:35
Kmosbug 14666611:38
ubotuLaunchpad bug 146666 in ubuntu "Installation Break on ASUS P5K SE" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14666611:38
Kmosi think this is kernel related11:38
RAOFslytherin: Ah, fair enough.  Then maybe wait for replies on -devel-discuss.  It is the weekend, after all.11:38
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Whoopiemjg59: Hi, could you have a look at bug 109151? I re-added usplash support to uswsusp. but the acpi-support package also needs a change.12:17
ubotuLaunchpad bug 109151 in uswsusp "no hibernate with uswsusp installed" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/10915112:17
mjg59Whoopie: How did you handle the resolution information?12:18
Whoopiemjg59: I added a -x and -y command line parameter to suspend.c and resume.c12:19
Whoopieand these values are read from /etc/usplash.conf in /etc/acpi/hibernate.sh12:19
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mjg59Whoopie: Ah, ok. And the swap device is auto-chosen?12:21
Whoopiemjg59: it's in /etc/uswsusp.conf. And this was added during install. debconf??12:21
mjg59Hm. Not entirely ideal, but fair enough.12:22
mjg59Ok, I'll try to upload that later12:22
bluekujamjg59: I was following Whoopie on it, if that patch is ok, I can move to upload that12:22
bluekujamjg59: just wanted to hear your opinion about it12:23
Whoopiemjg59: problem for me is that it hangs on resume. It doesn't switch back to X, but the laptop is still responsive so that I can poweroff it by pressing the power button.12:23
Whoopiereally don't know if it's usplash or my laptop.12:23
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Whoopiemjg59: and if you are on the acpi-support package, could you add the 0 to /etc/acpi/events/asus-brightness-{up,down}? it's bug 76593. thanks!12:40
ubotuLaunchpad bug 76593 in acpi-support "asus brightness hotkeys" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/7659312:40
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salty-horsehi. is there a way to hurry up a build? there was a small bug in udev that prevented it from being installed, and I fear to restart my machine after a gutsy upgrade without it working: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/113-0ubuntu1401:41
Hobbseeif there are buildd admins around, yes01:46
Hobbseeotherwise, no01:46
salty-horseHobbsee, I'm installing an older version: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/113-0ubuntu12/+build/39887101:46
Hobbseeyou could just fix the script, so it installs - the bug tells you how to, iirc.01:47
salty-horseI'm not an expert at .deb packaging -- rather not mess with it01:48
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glatzor_hello Riddell, the latest ati drivers in Ubuntu do no longer support xinerama. So I prepared a patch to disable dualhead in guidance for ati cards.03:48
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AnAntHello, a latex package (package here means set of macros, not debian package) has this file in the fonts/ directory 'Uqnskh.fd', does anyone know where the *.fd files should be installed in latex system ?03:51
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attunixWhere can I download the new "Elephant" wallpaper available in Gutsy? I'm on Feisty.05:29
ryuattunix, here are some: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/GutsyIdeas05:31
ryuor you could fetch the gutsy packe from packages.ubuntu.com and extract it05:31
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attunixryu: without the logo? ;)05:32
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ryuthen you should pick the second way i mentioned...05:37
attunixryu: how do I do that? :)05:38
ryuattunix, http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gutsy-wallpapers/gutsy-wallpapers_0.16_all.deb05:39
attunixcool; thanks :)05:39
ryuyou can take a file-roller oder similar programms to extract it...05:39
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cjwatson_calc: certainly nothing to do with my change; have a look at the diff, it's trivial05:40
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Hobbseegreetings, cjwatson05:41
cjwatsonhello, briefly05:41
cjwatsonmust walk dog, do laundry, do washing up, do everything else. argh.05:42
Hobbseefind a robot.05:42
cjwatsonon the upside I think I nearly have oem-config i18nised05:42
kylemtollef's too busy.05:42
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Hobbseehiya keescook!06:45
keescookthanks for the kdebase upload.  There are a few more CVE fixes still to go into it, though.  Got any time for that?06:45
Hobbseekeescook: for main packages?06:46
keescookyup. konqueror.06:46
keescooklet me find the bug #06:46
Hobbseekeescook: btw, do you know if that csh shell thing was correct?  i saw you un-securified it06:47
keescookhurm?  where?06:47
Hobbseei'ts in kdebase buglist06:47
keescookafaik, the xsession is running as the user (not root), so if csh blows up, it is certainly a bug, but not a security issue.06:49
Hobbseekeescook: i'm  more wondering fi the fix is correct06:50
keescookHobbsee: hmm, yeah, it looks okay.  It feels like there would be a cleaner way to handle it though.06:52
Hobbseekeescook: right06:53
keescookI'd almost be tempted to try things like   $SHELL -c "(if (-f /etc/csh.login) source /etc/csh.login; if (-f ~/.login) source ~/.login) >/dev/null; /bin/sh -c export" > $xsess_tmp06:54
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keescook(or whatever the csh redirection looks like)06:55
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keescookHobbsee: bugs #140707 and #146870   are the qt-x11-free, qt4-x11, kdebase, and kdelibs CVE issues.07:03
ubotuLaunchpad bug 140707 in qt-x11-free "[Qt 3, Qt 4]  Potential vulnerability in QUtf8Decoder" [High,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14070707:03
ubotuLaunchpad bug 146870 in kdelibs "konqueror URL bar spoofing" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14687007:03
keescooksince those are bzr'd what's the best way for me to prepare patches for kde uploaders to take/upload ?07:04
keescookHobbsee: also, do you have archive powers to take-back a build?  Something broke in openssl for amd64 (that I can't reproduce locally) and was hoping it was just a temp failure.07:05
Hobbseekeescook: i dont have any archive powers at all.  i dont work for canonical.07:06
Hobbseekeescook: sometimes i wish i did07:06
=== keescook nods
keescookoh, ow07:07
keescookSetting up linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22-12-generic ( ...07:07
keescookSegmentation fault (core dumped)07:07
Hobbseekeescook: can you email me about those bugs?  i'm really tired07:07
keescookHobbsee: sure, sending.07:08
Hobbsee(it's after 3am)07:08
Hobbseethanks a million07:08
mjg59keescook: Sweet.07:08
keescookyeow, yeah, I thought it was late for you.  :)07:08
mjg59keescook: Got an oops in dmesg?07:08
keescookmjg59: seems depmod faulted.  but then my computer has hated me lately, so I bet it's my filesystem or something stupid.07:08
ion_jamiemcc: Btw, is it intentional that tracker returns zero results until everything has been indexed? Id rather already get results for the already indexed entries, with perhaps a warning that the initial indexing is still going on.07:10
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jamiemccion_: 0.6.3 caches more in RAM so search results may not be avilable til its finished - we will amend the UI to warn about that07:19
ion_jamiemcc: file-meta.db already contains some of the files im testing with, but tracker-search doesnt return any results for them.07:21
jamiemccion_ index is stored in file-index.db07:22
ion_jamiemcc: Ah, ok. It doesnt contain any data about files. Couldnt it be updated every once in a while *during* the indexing?07:23
jamiemccion_: it is when 16mb cache is full - it flushes to index07:23
ion_jamiemcc: Would it perhaps be better to mmap files and let the kernel do all the RAM caching and flushing?07:25
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jamiemccion_ no can do - mmap is not supported in qdbm or sqlite07:25
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jamiemccion_: mmap does not work on fuse as well07:25
ion_I see.07:26
jamiemccion_: also mmap takes memeory away from disk cache07:26
jamiemccif you have 1gb index it would eat 1g ram from disk cacje07:26
lamontdo we not love Comoros then?07:27
ion_The whole mmapped area is kept in RAM? If that is the case, id say the kernels implementation is faulty. Id expect the kernel to flush pages that have been unused for a while to the disk and free the memory when RAM is needed for something else.07:28
lamontand lets not forget Uzbekistan07:28
ion_Of course, i could be missing something important. :-)07:28
jamiemccion_ it gets flushed when memory is low or you call unmap07:29
ion_So, someone should implement a way to tell the kernel in this mmapped file, pages that have been unused for a while are not as important as disk cache? :-)07:32
jamiemccion_: dunno - mmap is used for either sharing memory pages or agressive read pages into ram07:33
desrtion_; madvise()07:33
desrtspecifically, MADV_DONTNEED07:33
jamiemccdesrt: we use posix_fadvise all over tarcker07:33
desrtjamiemcc; tracker _destroys_ my laptop07:34
ion_desrt: 0.8.3?07:34
desrti had to kill it off.  no offense to you or anything07:34
jamiemccdesrt: latest 0.6.3 version?07:34
desrtgutsy beta as of last night07:34
ion_Whoops, typo.07:34
jamiemccits not in beta07:34
jamiemccits post beta07:34
desrtwell.. right... updated as of last night :p07:34
desrti was downloading and tracker was doing its think on the downloading file07:35
desrtand every time vim went to save its .swp file the editor would hang for a good 10 seconds07:35
jamiemccdesrt: that sounds like o.6.2 version07:35
desrtwhen the update comes i'll try again07:36
jamiemccdesrt: what file were you downloading?07:36
desrtit's a biggie :)07:36
jamiemccdesrt: I will try and replicate to be sure07:36
desrtit may interest you that i'm not running ubuntu kernels these days07:36
jamiemccdesrt: lol07:36
=== desrt is trying his hand as a l33t kernel hacker and upstream likes their patches to apply cleanly :p
jamiemccdesrt: anyway latest tracker 0.6.3 updates in chunks with intermittent fsync to prevent disk hogging for more than a sec or two07:39
desrtwhy do you call fsync()?07:40
jamiemcccause pdflush will hog disk if I dont07:40
desrtit must be fun to fight the kernel's cleverness07:40
desrtwhy is it that the kernel is (more or less) ok with every other workload on earth but things like beagle and tracker always bring it to its knees?07:41
jamiemccits a high priority kernel thread07:42
jamiemccand can starve other apps of disk07:42
jamiemccdesrt: its really bad on ext3 causeits write performance is terrible07:42
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desrti'd expect that a download does more disk writing than tracker should during a download07:43
desrtand yet doing two downloads doesn't wedge my system07:43
jamiemcctracker does seek read seek write for each word07:43
desrtwhat do you mean "word"?07:43
jamiemccan indexed word07:44
mjg59jamiemcc: The write depends on the read?07:44
jamiemccmjg59: of course its a has - you have to read where to write it07:44
mjg59Yeah. There's no way the kernel can reorder that, then.07:44
desrtnot true07:45
desrtyou could read a bunch of offsets in one go07:45
jamiemccdesrt: right07:45
desrtso you're only consulting the index once07:45
jamiemccthe reads should all be cache hits07:45
jamiemccif index is small07:45
desrtfair enough07:45
mjg59jamiemcc: Yeah.07:45
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desrtunless the index is being continuously pushed out by the insane amount of writing07:45
mjg59With a small index file, it's fine (and I guess the index merging fixes this to a large extent)07:46
jamiemccwith 30mb index is slows to crawl which means i suspect kernel07:46
jamiemccmjg59: yes index merging eliminates it untuil merge process07:46
desrtjamiemcc; i have a suggestion07:46
desrtjamiemcc; write a root-run helper program that opens the user's index and locks it into memory07:46
desrtsee if it impacts performance07:46
desrtjust as a test07:47
desrtmmap() the entire file07:47
desrtand then run mlock() on that address you get07:47
jamiemccqdbm does not use mmap though07:47
desrtdoesn't matter.  this will keep it in the kernel's page cache07:47
desrtmake sure you do a shared mapping07:47
jamiemccok will it be able to write it?07:47
jamiemccI will have to do that with 0.6.2 version07:48
desrti guess it either writes with pwrite() or lseek()/write()?07:48
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Nafallomy brightness changed by itself...07:48
jamiemcclseek/write i think07:48
desrtthis is just a cute little test utility07:48
desrtit's a 10-liner in C07:48
desrtwhere is the tracker index, btw?  i wonder how big mine is.07:49
jamiemcchome/.cache/tracker/ index*07:49
jamiemccmeta is the metadata07:49
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desrtemail stuff is a few KB07:49
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jamiemccyou dont use evolution then07:50
desrtfile-content is 54M, file-index 73MB, file-index-journal 15M, file-meta 19M07:50
desrti do use evo07:50
desrtjust with imap07:50
jamiemccthats 0.6.2 version!07:50
jamiemccin 0.6.3 its file-contents.db07:50
desrti probably just didn't turn it back on after i upgraded :p07:51
jamiemccyes - it will auto reindex when you do07:51
jamiemcc0.6.2 really sux!07:51
desrttotally awesome that you shipped it with the beta :p07:51
mjg59desrt: Released after beta freeze07:52
jamiemccwell i had 0.6.3 ready on monday07:52
jamiemccbut they waitied til now07:52
ion_jamiemcc: Btw, are there plans to have a local tracker process indexing shared directories on a networked drive and having clients trackerds proxy queries to it over the network?07:52
jamiemcc0.6.3 indexes 250mb of linux source in 8 minutes and no slow downs07:52
desrtjamiemcc; "8 minutes" on a good harddrive or on my laptop? :p07:53
jamiemccion_: network searches are on the long term todo07:53
jamiemccdesrt: a reasonable hard disk07:53
jamiemcca slow one might take a few minutes more07:53
jamiemcc0.6.2 would take hours to indesx that due to IO choking07:53
mjg59So far, 0.6.3 seems a great deal better at avoiding IO issues07:53
=== desrt finds slow harddrives to be really slow
desrtthere is a really really big difference between compiling a kernel on my laptop and on my desktop07:54
jamiemccmjg59: yeah its as good as we can make it07:54
desrtjamiemcc; lies :)07:54
ion_0.6.3 is indexing my entire ~ on a 500 MHz P3 box right now, and i dont notice it at all, except for the HDD led blinking steadily.07:54
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mjg59jamiemcc: It's a great improvement. Thanks very much for working on this.07:54
jamiemccmjg59: no problem - we want to be the best :)07:55
desrtjamiemcc; i'm sure you'll find something more to tweak for 0.6.4 :)07:55
jamiemccdesrt: thats due on monday07:55
desrtmaybe 0.6.5 then07:55
jamiemcc0.7 more like we are branching to do xesam next07:56
=== mjg59 wonders why g-p-m is suddenly unenthusiastic about spotting power state changes
desrtmjg59; it has this new policy timeout feature07:56
pwnguinas long as it isn't dimming the screen after like 20 seconds07:56
mjg59Ok, restarting hal seems to have made it happer07:56
desrtif events occur too soon after the event that preceeded them then it assumes that you have a buggy acpi and ignores them07:57
mjg59Tch. Only seems to be autochanging brightness when I open the preferences.07:57
desrtare you using non-g-p-m methods of changing brightness?07:58
mjg59jamiemcc: tracker isn't obviously pausing when I switch to battery, but it's possible that things are just generally broken right now07:58
mjg59desrt: No07:58
desrtmjg59; that's odd indeed, then07:58
desrtmy gutsy bitchlist is rapidly shrinking07:59
jamiemccmjg59: yeah - battery pausing was well tested07:59
jamiemccit uses hal so hal must be working07:59
desrtnow all i gotta do is find out why networkmanager randomly crashes coming back from suspend07:59
ion_jamiemcc: Perhaps the index should be updated after either the 16 MiB cache has been filled *or* e.g. 5 minutes have passed since the last update.07:59
jamiemccion_: we dont work like that anymore - each flushis to a sepoarate mini index (approx 16mb)08:00
jamiemcconce indexing is finished we stuch them all up into one index08:00
ion_jamiemcc: Tracker has been running for 45 minutes and still returns no results. That is slightly annoying.08:01
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desrtdoes tracker do the filesystem or just ~?08:02
jamiemccby default just home08:02
=== desrt tells it to stay out of his source code
jamiemccdesrt: it plays nice wth source - tracker puases itself when compiling or checking out source08:03
desrtin any case, my homedir on my laptop is about 1GB08:05
desrt900MB of that is source08:05
desrtso i'm just making tracker's job easier :)08:05
jamiemccdesrt:  :)08:05
jamiemccdesrt: tracker only pauses if it detects writes on its inotify watches08:06
jamiemccso if excluded from watching it wont pause08:06
desrtjamiemcc; tracker wakes up once every 2 seconds to read /proc/acpi/ac_adapter/ADP1/state08:06
desrtjamiemcc; you're better to watch the system dbus for state change notifications08:07
jamiemccdesrt: yeah -  I have to figure out how to use hal dbus08:07
calccjwatson_: ok np08:07
desrtyou just dbus_add_match on the signals08:07
desrt*bus_add_match, rather08:08
jamiemccI know that but I dont know hal api08:08
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jamiemcchal is not very friendly in that regard08:08
desrtabout 5 seconds with dbus-monitor --system and a yank of a laptop power cord will tell you that :)08:08
jamiemccdesrt: good idea!08:08
desrti think for something like this it would be better to just use dbus directly08:08
jamiemccyeah we are tivkless everywhere else08:09
desrti recently ported some code of mine from using libhal to using libdbus.  it was just easier.08:09
desrtsignal sender=:1.3 -> dest=(null destination) path=/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/acpi_ADP1; interface=org.freedesktop.Hal.Device; member=PropertyModified08:09
desrt         string "ac_adapter.present"08:09
desrt         boolean false08:09
desrt         boolean false08:09
jamiemccdesrt: that acpi_ADP1 is hardware specific though08:10
desrtseems pretty straight-forward08:10
desrtit is true.08:10
desrt"ac_adapter.present" is not :)08:10
jamiemccso I need to discover ac_adaptors first08:10
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desrt...or watch for PropertyModified on all devices... :/08:10
desrtthe format of this signal is obnoxious....08:10
desrtif it sent "ac_adaptor.present" as a toplevel argument of the signal you could even match on that08:11
jamiemccyeah I had a peek at api - it sux big time08:11
desrtthere is code in the gnome applets for this08:11
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desrti wrote it.. you're free to use it under whatever license tracker is08:11
jamiemcctracke ris gpl08:11
desrtoh.  that's fine then :p08:12
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desrtanyway.. it uses libhal to maintain a list of all of the batteries and AC adaptors in the system08:12
jamiemccdesrt: I will have a hunt08:12
ion_defcon: Good choice for username. :-)08:12
defconion, ive used that nick for yrs as well08:12
desrtsee the adaptor_update_property() function... this is the thing that will get called when you get an ac_adaptor.present change event08:14
jamiemccdesrt: thx08:14
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defconwho handles xorg drivers08:16
defconnew bug for i81008:16
ubotuLaunchpad bug 146728 in xorg "[Gutsy Beta]  Dots on 16bit Video i810" [Undecided,New] 08:16
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fabbioneinteresting FTBFS on udev... not my fault08:36
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defconi have a problem with my video since butsy beta on 16bit, I have little "dots" all over my video on my intel i810 82865G09:03
defconwhat could be doing this?09:04
Nafallochange to gutsy ;-)09:12
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sivanghi all10:49
sivangcongrets for the beta, pretty impressive list of improvements10:49
=== sivang wonders if the fast user switching is built into GNOME 2.20 or is specific to this ubuntu release
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lameiro_hi. Straw 0.27 is released since May, but Debian maintainer still didn't package it.  is it possible to have it packaged for Gutsy?10:53
_MMA_lameiro_: This late in the game I would think not.10:55
lameiro__MMA_: alright, thank you. maybe I should ask this in #ubuntu-motu? right?10:58
_MMA_lameiro_: If its a Universe packages yes but its the same situation.10:59
_MMA_Its very close to release and we are past our freeze dates.10:59
lameiro__MMA_: ouch. alright... thank you.11:01
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Riddellkeescook: I did say I'd take care of the kde/qt security issues :)11:07
Riddellbut let me know the current status please11:07
Riddell(there's no way to revert an upload once it's in the archives)11:07
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pochulameiro: although if it's a bug fix release, an exception for it might be approved...11:43
lameiropochu: unfortunately no, it is a new version with new functionality, new strings... :(11:44
geserdoes it fix some important bugs found it the current version in gutsy?11:45
geser(if they exist)11:45
pochuThen I guess not.11:45
pochuYou can backport bug fixes, though.11:45
asisakHey geser, pochu11:46
geserHi asisak11:46
lameirogeser: no, just little fixes here and there and some new features, no critical bug fixes. thank you :)11:47
pochuheya asisak11:48
geserthen you only chance it to bribe two motu-uvf members :)11:48
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keescookRiddell: I saw that Hobbsee uploaded one of the fixes, so I wanted to point out the others to her in case she was still working on them.12:15
keescookRiddell: afaik, 140707 and 146870 contain all the missing issues.12:15
ion_A script i use to handle integration between keychain and libpam-ssh. http://johan.kiviniemi.name/software/keychain.shellrc12:17
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