[12:30] <lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: minor changes will probably be made.
[12:31] <TiaGo|SouZa> lassegul: I heard about the change in the default wallpaper
[12:31] <TiaGo|SouZa> but will something change in the icons default set?!
[12:32] <lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: i dont think so
[12:32] <lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: whats the problem?
[12:33] <TiaGo|SouZa> hm
[12:33] <TiaGo|SouZa> I really think the Human set too "cartoonish"
[12:33] <TiaGo|SouZa> :p
[12:33] <TiaGo|SouZa> I'd like to know if that will change
[12:33] <TiaGo|SouZa> but aparently not
[12:33] <TiaGo|SouZa> :)
[12:34] <lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: ok. too late to do anything about that now. there probably will be a change for hardy
[12:34] <TiaGo|SouZa> hm
[12:34] <TiaGo|SouZa> listen, I'd like to participate of this team
[12:34] <TiaGo|SouZa> but I really don't know how things are done here
[12:35] <TiaGo|SouZa> how the contribuition process happens
[12:35] <lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: hmm, lapo said something about this the other day. let me see if i cant pull out a log for you.
[12:36] <TiaGo|SouZa> ok!
[12:38] <_MMA_> TiaGo|SouZa: Are you an artist?
[12:39] <TiaGo|SouZa> amateour
[12:39] <TiaGo|SouZa> I do it in my free time
[12:39] <TiaGo|SouZa> :)
[12:39] <_MMA_> Well you could always post you ideas for replacement icons.
[12:40] <lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: i couldnt find the log. i was probably connecting from another computer.
[12:41] <TiaGo|SouZa> that's my question, where do I post it?!
[12:41] <TiaGo|SouZa> I heard that u have a mailing list, a forum and a wiki
[12:41] <TiaGo|SouZa> I'm not familiar with any of those stuff, but I can become familiar anyway
[12:42] <TiaGo|SouZa> lassegul: :-/
[12:42] <lassegul> nothlit: this is why we should have the gallery :D
[12:43] <lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: im really not sure. i would have asked lapo, but he isnt here right now. do you know _MMA_ ?
[12:44] <_MMA_> As to where to post?
[12:44] <lassegul> _MMA_: yeo
[12:45] <lassegul> *yep
[12:45] <_MMA_> Well the Hardy WIKI looks to be in some flux as there are 3 places to put things. I here this will be paired down/consolidated.
[12:45] <TiaGo|SouZa> do u have a mailing list?!
[12:46] <_MMA_> Subscribing to the ML is good as well. https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-art
[12:47] <lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: if you want to participate in the upcoming release hardy, join our meeting on tuesday
[12:47] <_MMA_> TiaGo|SouZa: But do realize getting a completely new and cohesive iconset done in 1 development cycle is a daunting task.
[12:48] <lassegul> TiaGo|SouZa: see channel topic.
[12:48] <TiaGo|SouZa> how can I join that meeting?!
[12:48] <TiaGo|SouZa> VoIP?!
[12:49] <_MMA_> TiaGo|SouZa: In #ubuntu-meeting
[12:49] <_MMA_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
[12:50] <TiaGo|SouZa> hmmm
[12:51] <TiaGo|SouZa> hey, about IRC I'm familiar..I'm here, ain't I?!
[12:51] <TiaGo|SouZa> :p
[12:51] <terlmann> not to me :-)
[12:51] <_MMA_> What are you talking about?
[12:52] <lassegul> lol
[12:52] <TiaGo|SouZa> hahaha
[12:52] <terlmann> so what's this saxaphone chap doing here ?
[12:53] <terlmann> how can I help you run him off ?
[12:53] <_MMA_> TiaGo|SouZa: Ill assume you think that link is only for IRC n00bs. It contains a list of all the Ubuntu IRC channels.
[12:53] <_MMA_> terlmann: Be careful. Of seen the same asked about you.;)
[12:53] <terlmann> That it does , and I have never read it :D
[12:54] <TiaGo|SouZa> It's in my bookmark now!
[12:54] <TiaGo|SouZa> :D
[12:54] <_MMA_> cool
[12:55] <TiaGo|SouZa> how things work in the artwork end?!
[12:55] <terlmann> _MMA_ : your comment on 17:54 made no sense at all due to improper english usage :-P
[12:55] <TiaGo|SouZa> we submit some wallpapers, sounds, icons, etc, and someone choose what suit best?
[12:55] <lassegul> im going to bed. good night guys.
[12:56] <terlmann> SouZa : this is a channel where we hang out. at the moment we are waiting for a meeting on october second to determine the theme for the next release
[12:56] <terlmann> we will hold the meeting in #ubuntu-meeting obviously
[12:56] <lassegul> terlmann: you have read the meeting topics havent you?
[12:56] <terlmann> after that , yea , we well all crack down and start at stuff
[12:57] <lassegul> terlmann: sorry i misunderstood you
[12:57] <_MMA_> terlmann: I actually have a list someone made with grammatical errors made by you lately. Im not your student. I dont care. ;)
[12:57] <terlmann> :-P
[12:58] <terlmann> someone made one ? ! ? !
[12:58] <_MMA_> :D
[12:58] <terlmann> I am impressed that you take me that seriously
[12:58] <terlmann> LOL
[12:58] <_MMA_> You have a rep your not above. ;)
[12:58] <terlmann> my rep endears me to you chaps , I know it
[12:58] <terlmann> I have one in many places
[12:58] <_MMA_> Whatever lets ya sleep.
[12:59] <lassegul> good night again.
[12:59] <terlmann> SO : who wants to bet that Hoary will look like dapper (but more brownish ) ?
[12:59] <terlmann> (I just asked a trick and introverted question)
[01:00] <terlmann> kwwii : will our ol leader be at the meeting or will he be off somewhere plotting ?
[01:02] <TiaGo|SouZa> that pallete will never change?!?!
[01:02] <TiaGo|SouZa> :p
[01:03] <terlmann> Tiago : what are you refering to ?
[01:03] <terlmann> the one for ubuntu ?
[01:03] <terlmann> O it will change , but kwwii will say when and where
[01:03] <terlmann> he is our resident correspondent with the leader of ubuntu
[01:03] <terlmann> who is obviously in control
[01:04] <terlmann> as for the palette, the grapevine says brown and black....
[01:04] <terlmann> and some orange
[01:05] <terlmann> personally I wanted white but i am a nobody :-D
[01:05] <TiaGo|SouZa> kwwii is the correspondent with the leader of ubuntu?!
[01:05] <terlmann> my telepathic powers arnt up to snuff yet
[01:05] <terlmann> yea
[01:05] <TiaGo|SouZa> mark shuftlwork (i really dunno how to write it!)
[01:05] <terlmann> ol mark is the boss and personally wants a hand in this
[01:05] <terlmann> kwwii is here to see it through
[01:05] <_MMA_> Shuttleworth
[01:06] <terlmann> Worthy of Shuttle = went into space
[01:06] <terlmann> think of space :-P
[01:07] <terlmann> I think we need a mascot
[01:07] <terlmann> I want to adopt a wolf
[01:07] <terlmann> or a fish
[01:07] <terlmann> really though , we would do best with a bird
[01:07] <terlmann> a duck even
[01:07] <TiaGo|SouZa> ahiuahahuhauahuahuahuahuaha
[01:08] <TiaGo|SouZa> veryyyy, veryyy goodd!!!
[01:17] <TiaGo|SouZa> do u need sounds too?
[01:17] <TiaGo|SouZa> hmm great
[01:45] <Misosaki> Hi luisbg
[01:54] <luisbg> hey Misosaki
[01:55] <Misosaki> Having a good day?
[03:49] <Misosaki> wb
[09:12] <coz_> morning all
[09:15] <nothlit> morning
[09:16] <coz_> nothlit, hello
[09:28] <lassegul> hi
[09:29] <coz_> lassegul, hello
[11:57] <Auckla> [02:55]  <Auckla> Well here I go to install Ubuntu to another drive.
[11:57] <Auckla> [02:55]  <Auckla> I shall see you all hpefully in a few.
[04:12] <terlmann> Today is monday , October the first. Today I back all my documents up :D. Sun is bright , and the moon was ORANGE.
[05:47] <terlmann> 23meg ?
[05:47] <terlmann> what would that stand for...
[05:47] <terlmann> hmm...
[05:49] <`23meg> terlmann, hi
[05:49] <terlmann> Meagan ?
[05:55] <nothlit> `23meg: any updates on ambassador doings? a thread started towards the meeting?
[05:55] <terlmann> hmm ? `23meg is a diplomat with the ToTos ?
[05:58] <`23meg> nothlit, I don't think there's any need to start a new thread
[05:59] <`23meg> I did post about the meeting in advance
[05:59] <terlmann> you guys do this on the forums and on the irc ? so the meeting is two-stage ?
[05:59] <`23meg> IRC only
[06:00] <terlmann> meeting is tomorrow right ?
[06:00] <terlmann> I'll be there :-)
[06:00] <nothlit> `23meg: oh ok, so just in the megathread?
[06:00] <`23meg> the wallpaper thread, yes
[06:01] <`23meg> to be honest, I'm feeling less and less motivated to do anything about the forums everyday
[06:01] <terlmann> Wild mountain thunder echoes my quest, My body aches but I'll not rest. Quartz light to guide me, Till sunrise leads. My passion screams, my heart it bleeds.
[06:03] <nothlit> `23meg: whats happened/changed?
[06:03] <terlmann> second stanza of the great Desert Plains Symphony by Judas Priest , if you have not heard it.
[06:04] <`23meg> nothlit, nothing regarding the artwork, but I just read this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=562529
[06:05] <_MMA_> Bad puppy.
[06:06] <terlmann> bad piggy
[06:12] <nothlit> `23meg: still reading the thread, but it seems like similar sentiments echoed in the wallpaper one
[06:12] <`23meg> nothlit, I think this is worse
[06:12] <nothlit> `23meg: even ambassadors can't reach people who don't want to listen, just focus on those who are willing to
[06:14] <kwwii> lol, `23meg ...that forum entry is sooo taken out of context
[06:14] <lapo> hi
[06:15] <`23meg> kwwii, so much that I feel reluctant to post a rebuttal
[06:15] <nothlit> lapo: heyas
[06:15] <`23meg> and there lies the problem
[06:15] <kwwii> `23meg: now you know why I do not read the forum ;-)
[06:15] <`23meg> when this kind of thing becomes commonplace, the best solution becomes to just ignore the whole thing, which is a shame
[06:15] <terlmann> well
[06:16] <`23meg> kwwii, I already knew :)
[06:16] <terlmann> with that I guess it will be fiesty forever with me
[06:16] <terlmann> I gotta have my bleeding edge and medubuntu :-)
[06:16] <terlmann> but I am not the naive user
[06:17] <terlmann> so I might through with it
[06:17] <terlmann> assuming I can hack this
[06:17] <lapo> kwwii: ah congrats again for the wallpaper, I'm still using it and it's nice
[06:17] <nothlit> `23meg: the problem with abandoning it entirely is that the people who just want to know whats going on will only hear the complaining side then
[06:18] <kwwii> lapo: thanks ;-) post that comment on the forum :p
[06:18] <nothlit> but its difficult to inform and not feed the trolls
[06:18] <lapo> kwwii: no thanks, I waste enough time on irc already :-)
[06:18] <terlmann> any troll not of my species deserves to be shot :-)
[06:19] <kwwii> hehe
[06:20] <terlmann> so who here is using ubuntu-fresh for the GDM theme :-)
[06:21] <`23meg> nothlit, people who want to know what's going on should look outside the forums as well
[06:21] <`23meg> that's a problem on its own: most forum users' whole contact with the world of Ubuntu is the forums
[06:21] <nothlit> `23meg: yeah, but the difficulty is theres not always a page for each issue there
[06:22] <nothlit> just like this whole thing with the artwork selection
[06:22] <nothlit> scattered around wiki pages and in the minds of the participants passed by word of mouth
[06:23] <`23meg> well, mailing lists aren't any less structured than forums
[06:23] <`23meg> and things like UWN, The Fridge and Planet Ubuntu make it easy to follow up on things
[06:23] <lapo> nothlit': there's a nice tool to keep complaints nicelly organized, it's called bugzilla :-)
[06:23] <lapo> well launchpad for ubuntu
[06:23] <`23meg> but so few people on forums follow those
[06:24] <nothlit> or, providing a clear mind/opinion from the 'peer pressure' of the maligning posts
[06:24] <nothlit> lapo: yeah, but we're not talking about technical issues, discontent is a serious issue in a community, especially an open source one
[06:25] <lapo> nothlit: you'll always have discontent in a oss community
[06:25] <lapo> nothlit: the way to fix up stuff is filling bugs
[06:26] <lapo> nothlit: naturally a "the new wallpaper is ugly" is not a good bug
[06:27] <lapo> if the guy in charge for art looks at the forums, the mailing list, the bugs, irc channel he will do public relation but no work
[06:27] <nothlit> of course, but i'm speaking of active forum participants in general
[06:28] <lapo> people will always complain whatever you do, since artistic stuff is by definition a matter of taste
[06:28] <nothlit> or irc participants, if there was a misunderstanding, you would probably do your best to clear it up within reason
[06:28] <lapo> and everybody has his own different taste
[06:28] <`23meg> nothlit, regarding the forums the problem is, there's so much to be cleared up with reason that it becomes exhausting, frustrating and disheartening
[06:29] <lapo> nothlit: yes if I have time to do it, and it's not always true, or better quite the contrary
[06:29] <`23meg> I have limited time and energy I can dedicate to Ubuntu, and with the forums I've been feeling it's going to waste
[06:29] <lapo> the problem of furums is the same of mailing list, too much noise
[06:29] <lapo> I mean, 3 good posts against 1000 bad ones
[06:30] <lapo> for good I mean informative, to the point, selft explicative
[06:30] <`23meg> lapo, forums are more noisier than mailing lists by orders of magnitude
[06:30] <lapo> `23meg: yeah probably
[06:30] <lapo> so it's even wrost
[06:30] <lapo> you cannot pretend for the people who have to do the work to follow forums
[06:30] <nothlit> `23meg: thats why i don't read the forums, only reason i registered at all was for a team election thing
[06:31] <`23meg> nothlit, I'm heading the same direction
[06:31] <nothlit> `23meg: but do a small amount each day and forget the rest if you're committed to this, even a little helps
[06:31] <lapo> it should be clear that the forums are not a good way to communicate with the "developers"
[06:32] <lapo> mailing list can be if the traffic is low enough to be read w/o wasting too much time
[06:33] <lapo> an high traffic miling list has the same problems of the forums
[06:34] <nothlit> i would shy away from advocating for them to use the mailing list
[06:34] <lapo> indeed
[06:34] <nothlit> an issue tracker is best, more official, can be discarded, and less opportunity to spout
[06:34] <lapo> nothlit: an issue tracker has the exact same problem
[06:35] <lapo> too much stuff in, too much time needed to find good infos
[06:35] <terlmann> only 30% of users use it
[06:35] <lapo> I really think the best way too communicate is irc for discussions and eventually and issuetracker
[06:36] <terlmann> yea
[06:36] <terlmann> IRC FTW
[06:36] <lapo> discuss on irc then open a bug
[06:37] <lapo> if you're too lazy to do it, that means that you don't care enough about the issue so it's just for the sake of whining :-)
[06:37] <_MMA_> terlmann: Source for the 30% please?
[06:38] <terlmann> _MMA_ : you know where.
[06:38] <terlmann> my &$$
[06:38] <lapo> a community is driven by the guys who do the work and if the guys who do the work do public relations all the time no work will be done
[06:38] <lapo> that's the main problem :-)
[06:39] <terlmann> no pr needed. Just link all works to some voting threads
[06:39] <lapo> terlmann: I don't really believe voting will work
[06:39] <terlmann> yes it does
[06:39] <lapo> naah
[06:39] <terlmann> it does , trust me
[06:39] <terlmann> you havn't tried it :-)
[06:40] <lapo> design by community cannot work
[06:40] <lapo> you'll end up with something boring all the time
[06:40] <lapo> since you have to try to please anyone
[06:40] <terlmann> use the wiki to create all entries and link them to the forums for voting
[06:40] <nothlit> voting works, just by developers rather than community
[06:40] <terlmann> vote after the creation phase
[06:40] <nothlit> unless you think debian is a failed project
[06:40] <lapo> there's should be one in charge with a clear vision of what do to
[06:40] <terlmann> me
[06:40] <terlmann> ME
[06:41] <terlmann> MEEE
[06:41] <lapo> nothlit: don't take debian as an example please :-)
[06:41] <terlmann> well , kwwii , but I be in charge of him...
[06:41] <lapo> nothlit: sould I need to pronounce the word sarge? :-)
[06:41] <lapo> and anyway artwork is something different then technical stuff
[06:41] <terlmann> ME ME ME
[06:42] <terlmann> I can lead art into the 22 century
[06:42] <terlmann> Only I know what good art looks like :-)
[06:42] <lapo> eheh
[06:42] <terlmann> because I have never seen any :-P
[06:43] <lapo> in gnome there's an art director (which is on the channel actually) which has the last word
[06:43] <terlmann> That should be me
[06:43] <lapo> since if you end up with an endless discussion the work will stop, and it should never happen
[06:43] <terlmann> gimme gimme
[06:43] <terlmann> actually the discussion is after art is finished lapo, then we will have motivation
[06:43] <terlmann> who wants gold prize ?
[06:43] <terlmann> we should do this like worth1000
[06:44] <lapo> terlmann: do about half of the stuff andreasn did and I'll sponsor you next time :-)
[06:44] <andreasn> hm?
[06:44] <terlmann> whoa
[06:44] <terlmann> your alive !
[06:44] <lapo> andreasn: I was speaking about how design by community cannot work :-)
[06:45] <terlmann> anyway , we should do this  , like I said :-P , like worth1000 does photoshopping contests.
[06:45] <nothlit> lapo: andreasn has veto power? :o
[06:45] <lapo> yes
[06:45] <andreasn> hm, yes, apparently
[06:45] <terlmann> who here visits worth1000 weekly ?
[06:46] <terlmann> and how many of you think that if it was up to a contest the artists would do their best ?
[06:46] <terlmann> a paid contest even
[06:46] <terlmann> with gold receiving a personal chat with sabdfl
[06:46] <terlmann> perhaps
[06:46] <lapo> terlmann: you can do it for the wallpaper probably
[06:46] <nothlit> thats pretty much what impression people got this time around anyways, from what i've been told
[06:46] <lapo> but you need more then one guy to do all the stuff, so it won't work imho
[06:47] <terlmann> lapo : and gtk , and gdm
[06:47] <terlmann> yes it will . there will be more than one winner , that is all.
[06:47] <lapo> terlmann: the point is that the same guy should do the wallpaper, the icons, the gtk theme, gdm and so on
[06:47] <terlmann> no
[06:47] <terlmann> NO
[06:47] <lapo> plus bug the devs to fix this and that thing to make the design working
[06:47] <terlmann> I do not think one person has that talent
[06:47] <_MMA_> lol
[06:47] <lapo> terlmann: that's why it cannot work
[06:48] <terlmann> just because one guy does a masterpiece does not mean he can make Icons or such
[06:48] <lapo> that's the point
[06:48] <terlmann> lapo : hold a wallpaper , gdm , and gtk contestr
[06:48] <nothlit> wow, the two art sites are back up
[06:48] <terlmann> seperate the components
[06:48] <lapo> all the arty stuff has to be coherent so all the authors have to follow the same direction
[06:48] <terlmann> unite the gold and silver entries for a finalls
[06:48] <lapo> terlmann: you'll have a mishmash then
[06:49] <terlmann> yea right. as if they won't be using the SAME palette.
[06:49] <lapo> the palette is not enough
[06:49] <lapo> you can't define a style with the palette alone
[06:50] <terlmann> it really is. Icons are all one component , sound is another , gtk is a third , and wallpaper/gdm is a fourth.
[06:50] <lapo> you'll need a lot guideliness which will be more expensive to write or maintain then doing the real work
[06:50] <terlmann> I can write those , thank you.
[06:50] <lapo> good luck then :-)
[06:50] <terlmann> I prefer some variety instead of repitions of the same old boring theme
[06:51] <terlmann> why cannot the icons be orange while the background is brown ?
[06:51] <terlmann> it's called intelligent contrast
[06:51] <lapo> terlmann: let's speack about guideliness, to write them you'll need a lot of experience and if you find that something needs to be changed you'll have to change all the work done already
[06:51] <nothlit> lapo: well, diana has done a good job of the wallpaper/gdm/bootsplash/gnome/kde splash/cd
[06:51] <terlmann> well ,
[06:51] <lapo> better to work directly on the stuff
[06:51] <nothlit> lapo: with some help on the technical stuff of course
[06:51] <terlmann> hold on lapo
[06:52] <terlmann> here is my pretheme
[06:52] <lapo> nothlit: yeah, she doesn't work at rh anymore tho :-)
[06:52] <terlmann> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HardyIdeas
[06:53] <lapo> terlmann: uhm...there's nothing in it
[06:53] <terlmann> I can polish that up after the meeting , but nowit is making another page at /hardy (no ideas in adress name ) that people are already posting to
[06:53] <terlmann> what ?
[06:53] <terlmann> lapo ?
[06:53] <_MMA_> Problem is there's 3 pages for the Hardy art ATM. That will all need to be combined and distilled.
[06:53] <nothlit> lapo: btw, i hope you know i didn't delete your original page, just moved it into the category https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Hardy/Ideas?action=recall&rev=1
[06:53] <lapo> nothlit: my original page?
[06:53] <nothlit> _MMA_: for the one page loading mess like gutsy?
[06:53] <nothlit> err
[06:53] <nothlit> sorry s/lapo/terlmann
[06:54] <terlmann> lapo : this is my page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/HardyIdeas
[06:54] <terlmann> and it still exists
[06:54] <nothlit> _MMA_: consolidation will happen after the meeting
[06:54] <lapo> terlmann: but there's nothing in, just generic technical giudelines
[06:54] <terlmann> yea
[06:54] <terlmann> that is my point
[06:54] <terlmann> I can write guidlines
[06:55] <lapo> terlmann: that's has no use :-)
[06:55] <terlmann> I can write them better after the meeting
[06:55] <terlmann> I need more info on the direction we are going
[06:55] <lapo> terlmann: those are not artistic guideliness
[06:55] <terlmann> lots more
[06:55] <_MMA_> nothlit: No. One base page with link to sections from it. kwwii like what I did with Ubuntu Studios bit I think it still needs a little tweaking. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork/OfficialHardyIncoming
[06:55] <terlmann> right , as I do not have any artistic guidelines yet
[06:56] <lapo> ubuntustudio stuff is better already, but too vague
[06:56] <lapo> there are examples at least
[06:56] <terlmann> ok . lapo , I will make these guidelines you are referring to after kwwii expresses the boss's intrests
[06:56] <lapo> but it's still not a guideline which will garanty an uniform style
[06:56] <terlmann> I can't go jumping the gun
[06:57] <lapo> terlmann: I'm not saying I believe guideliness will work tho :-)
[06:57] <terlmann> I can make it uniform , believe it
[06:57] <terlmann> but like I said , some variety is good.
[06:57] <lapo> terlmann: so you know how to make icons, gtkrcs, metacity themes, wallpapers, gdm themes?
[06:57] <terlmann> yea
[06:57] <_MMA_> lapo: For you its vague. If you dont understand the concept then the art you would produce would suffer. People in the scene get it instantly.
[06:57] <terlmann> not that , lapo, I am going to give you that much time of mine
[06:57] <terlmann> especially for gtkrcs
[06:58] <lapo> _MMA_: it's surellt for my, I speak for myself :-)
[06:58] <terlmann> or .desktop  files
[06:58] <terlmann> _MMA_ you express my feelings exactly.
[06:59] <lapo> _MMA_: the examples there are a lot different, I cannot say I'll do something that style
[06:59] <_MMA_> lapo: I was speaking generally also. :) Not aimed at you.
[06:59] <terlmann> concept MUST be understood , or else the theme will suffer , whether one person does it or one million.
[06:59] <terlmann> got that ???
[06:59] <lapo> terlmann: sure, but the concept is the tip of the iceberg
[07:00] <terlmann> actually it is the tool that will shape the theme
[07:00] <terlmann> some people never get it
[07:00] <lapo> terlmann: If I were you I'll try to use the time to actually produce something working, then talk about it
[07:00] <terlmann> and we get GREEN for wallpapers
[07:00] <terlmann> lol
[07:00] <terlmann> lapo : I am a manager. I don't do the art myself , because I want to let others do the work for me. :_P
[07:00] <terlmann> besides
[07:01] <terlmann> WE CANNOT START until the MEETING
[07:01] <lapo> terlmann: why?
[07:01] <terlmann> ha
[07:01] <terlmann> ehehe
[07:01] <terlmann> your lost , clueless ,
[07:01] <terlmann> and a whole lot more
[07:01] <terlmann> we are going in a DIRECTION for hardy
[07:01] <terlmann> a different one than feisty
[07:01] <lapo> terlmann: if you do something which is nice that can be the direction
[07:02] <_MMA_> terlmann: lol. "I am a manager." really? You're terrible at speaking to people and its a key factor to management.
[07:02] <terlmann> no , lapo , I cannot
[07:02] <lapo> terlmann: so your reasons will be less taken seriously for sure :-)
[07:02] <terlmann> Mark Shuttleworth has some ideas on how hardy should go, and we must obey/
[07:02] <nothlit> managers often need to be the most capable and experienced people
[07:02] <terlmann> yea, I am experienced
[07:03] <nothlit> terlmann: cool, what sort of art background do you have?
[07:03] <_MMA_> Im sorry. It doesnt show.
[07:03] <terlmann> terrible at speaking ? I have kept you occupied for 30 minutes :-)
[07:03] <lapo> demostrate it then :-)
[07:03] <terlmann> sorry lapo , not until after the meeting
[07:03] <terlmann> the meeting comes first
[07:04] <_MMA_> terlmann: One day you'll get it puppy. ;)
[07:04] <terlmann> _MMA_ : shove it. I have surpassed you already.
[07:04] <_MMA_> lol
[07:05] <_MMA_> Keep baiting. ;)
[07:05] <nothlit> btw, the first meeting is just infrastructure basically, not artistic direction
[07:05] <terlmann> _MMA_ : not baiting. Shove off.
[07:05] <_MMA_> hahaha
[07:05] <terlmann> this meeting is going to be artistic direction.
[07:05] <terlmann> I have it on word from kwwii
[07:05] <terlmann> don't you think LTS releases are going to be something important, like more than normal ?
[07:06] <_MMA_> terlmann: Which way is the wind blowing and whats the humidity where you're at?
[07:06] <terlmann> blowing to the north and humidity is null
[07:06] <nothlit> LTS is for redefining/rebranding ubuntu
[07:06] <terlmann> right
[07:06] <terlmann> this is a lts release
[07:06] <terlmann> right ?
[07:06] <nothlit> terlmann: you have lots of experience? do you have any designs/paintings i can see? always interested to see people's work
[07:07] <nothlit> yeah hardy will be LTS
[07:07] <terlmann> nothlit : I got mine removed when I pissed off some gentoo nerds
[07:07] <lapo> terlmann: experience, which oss project has your contributions?
[07:07] <terlmann> story telling time over.
[07:07] <nothlit> terlmann: you don't have any of it stored yourself?
[07:08] <terlmann> naa
[07:08] <nothlit> you can dcc away :D
[07:08] <terlmann> I always delete it
[07:08] <_MMA_> LOL
[07:08] <terlmann> IT doesn't have any appeal to me to keep bad work
[07:08] <lapo> terlmann: I only reading words, I'm not seing actuall work done :-)
[07:08] <terlmann> I can ddc you someone elses work
[07:09] <terlmann> lapo : I only writing words, and I think that counts as work :-)
[07:09] <nothlit> lol, i can look up other peoples work myself fine :)
[07:09] <terlmann> someone has to speak out , or no one will learn
[07:09] <lapo> terlmann: that's the point, it doesn't :-)
[07:09] <nothlit> speaking out doesn't make people learn, doing does
[07:09] <terlmann> actually
[07:09] <lapo> terlmann: tango guideliness are written by people how worked on icons for ages
[07:09] <lapo> terlmann: how can I trust your guidelines?
[07:10] <terlmann> what did god tell abraham and noah ?
[07:10] <_MMA_> "Shove off."?
[07:10] <lapo> ahahah
[07:10] <_MMA_> :)
[07:10] <terlmann> lapo : no matter how old a person is and how long they have done something , they could have been doing it WRONG all along
[07:10] <terlmann> ever think of that ?
[07:11] <lapo> uhm
[07:11] <lapo> I don't think so in that specific case
[07:11] <lapo> I did some bg and stuff and I know how to do it more or less, but I'm not confident enough to write a guideline about it, how can you do it?
[07:12] <lapo> and how do you think people will listen to you?
[07:12] <lapo> remember it's oss, you don't have a stuff of payed guys whos job is to follow your direction
[07:12] <lapo> you need to gather people interest
[07:12] <terlmann> lapo : confidence is everything . If I try my best , and know what I am doing , I can beat anyone. :)
[07:12] <lapo> and you need to gather the *RIGHT* people interest
[07:12] <terlmann> Virtue is like a rich stone,best plain set.
[07:13] <terlmann> right
[07:13] <lapo> it's not usefull to have a thousand minions on the forums which hails you w/o doing nothing :-)
[07:13] <lapo> you need to fing the right people working with you for their own pleasure
[07:13] <lapo> and believe me it's not as easy as it seems
[07:14] <_MMA_> lapo: +1
[07:14] <lapo> the people have to respect deadlines and need to finish the work they said they would have done
[07:14] <terlmann> well
[07:14] <lapo> that's the big issue
[07:14] <nothlit> confidence is not everything, its often dangerous--its more important to make sure people work together
[07:14] <lapo> making a comunity is black magic
[07:15] <lapo> and you surelly need influent (for filed merits) involved
[07:15] <lapo> field
[07:15] <terlmann> I say we do it on the wiki and send everything to the forums for voting afterward , organized into themes. person A's background with B's gtk - theme A and so forth.
[07:15] <lapo> terlmann: good luck, imho the result (if any) wil not be nice
[07:16] <terlmann> well let's do this two ways
[07:16] <lapo> terlmann: fedora artwork was good cause diana was leading
[07:17] <terlmann> lapo : lets do this in two parts for hardy : you control the actual artwork for this theme and I test the idea of voting for themes on the forums.
[07:17] <terlmann> can we shake now ?
[07:17] <lapo> I don't want to control anything
[07:17] <_MMA_> lapo: I personally plan to have a single discussion thread about Ubuntu Studio's art. We'll just distill things from there but as far as voting on every little detail, it wont happen. Will slow work down too much.
[07:17] <lapo> I just work on stuff I'm interested in
[07:17] <terlmann> not every detail , that will be silly
[07:17] <lapo> _MMA_: good
[07:18] <terlmann> but having a few themes and several choices is a good idea
[07:18] <lapo> _MMA_: ubuntu studio is going in a nice direction anyway
[07:18] <nothlit> theres no point in discussing voting or control now, its not going to mean anything
[07:18] <lapo> there's no point in discussing most of the time, work count :-)
[07:18] <terlmann> nothlit : if I get a thousand votes , will it mean anything then ?
[07:19] <lapo> "I have this work done, do you like it?" "how can I improve it?"
[07:19] <lapo> those are the contructive discussion imho
[07:19] <nothlit> probably not anymore than a 33 page forum thread or a petition
[07:20] <lapo> terlmann: I don't think so, work cound as I said not words :-)
[07:20] <terlmann> nothlit : I mean , I put up two or three unified themes of artwork that have been completed and offer a no-post voting thread with downloads and voting enabled
[07:20] <terlmann> and screenshots
[07:20] <nothlit> yeah
[07:21] <nothlit> voting doesn't mean anything, its not up to the community
[07:21] <lapo> something which is so and so which kinda please that crowd will win
[07:21] <terlmann> why not?
[07:21] <terlmann> we will be using it
[07:21] <nothlit> sabdfl will choose what he thinks is right for the product, same as any president of any other corporation
[07:21] <terlmann> Stephen Vincent Benet - Litany for Dictatorships, 1935
[07:21] <terlmann> - We thought, because we had power, we had wisdom.
[07:21] <terlmann> I wanna talk to el powerful sometime
[07:21] <nothlit> !sabdfl
[07:21] <ubotu> Mark "sabdfl" Shuttleworth is our favourite cosmonaut, the founder of Canonical and the primary driver behind Ubuntu. You can find pieces of his thinking at http://www.markshuttleworth.com
[07:21] <nothlit> bah
[07:22] <nothlit> anyways, the d stands for dictator
[07:22] <_MMA_> terlmann: PM him on IRC. :)
[07:22] <terlmann> that guy wanted nakkid chicks once apon a time right ?
[07:22] <lapo> terlmann: he usually answers even
[07:22] <nothlit> i don't know who was in charge of that, but it was naked people
[07:23] <terlmann> well the guy is nice and rich and like rich people are , somewhat clueless about things that they do not spend time on :-)
[07:23] <lapo> terlmann: tell him
[07:23] <terlmann> gotta get familiar with your peons
[07:23] <_MMA_> lol
[07:24] <_MMA_> terlmann: Like lapo said tell him. :)
[07:24] <terlmann> I will
[07:24] <terlmann> and if he does not answer..
[07:25] <nothlit> things they do not spend time on?
[07:25] <terlmann> yea
[07:25] <terlmann> how much time does he spend in here?
[07:25] <nothlit> there you are incorrect, he spends much time on ubuntu, you can see him during community council etc
[07:25] <terlmann> how many posts does he have on the forums , and how many emails does he send to the mailing list ?
[07:25] <nothlit> or some council
[07:25] <terlmann> hmm
[07:25] <terlmann> councils ehe
[07:26] <terlmann> I gotta get me a council-catching gun
[07:26] <nothlit> 'sabdfl' you can check yourself if hes identified
[07:26] <lapo> terlmann: the few time I had to speak with him he always anwsered by irc
[07:26] <_MMA_> terlmann: I bet. You'll most like do like every other person likes to do. Talk crap without ever having said a word to him. I guarantee you if you actually have a conversation with him you'll be a fan-boy. _HE'S_ management. ;)
[07:26] <terlmann> talk crap ?
[07:26] <nothlit> upper ups, usually don't post on the forums etc even if they read them often
[07:27] <terlmann> actually I can get very serious
[07:27] <terlmann> right now I am playing with you :-P
[07:27] <nothlit> but you can google through the mailing lists yourself and see
[07:27] <lapo> he is surelly a good leader btw
[07:27] <_MMA_> nothlit: Ive got him to post to the forum a couple of times. He does it if he know about something.
[07:28] <terlmann> hmm
[07:28] <terlmann> well I will see
[07:28] <terlmann> if he is a good leader I may just like him
[07:34] <lapo> _MMA_: you're an ubuntustudioer right?
[07:34] <_MMA_> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/12/1449201&from=rss and http://www.bsdcan.org/2007/schedule/attachments/12-Poisonous_People_Ben_CollinsSussman_and_Brian_Fitzpatrick.pdf
[07:34] <_MMA_> lapo: Im its oft tired leader yes.
[07:34] <lapo> eheh
[07:35] <lapo> _MMA_: I'm playing with it latelly, nice work
[07:35] <_MMA_> The Feisty version?
[07:35] <lapo> _MMA_: current
[07:35] <_MMA_> Gutsy daily?
[07:35] <_MMA_> Oh...
[07:35] <lapo> well packages on gutsy
[07:35] <_MMA_> I see.
[07:36] <_MMA_> Our big differences come in the disk installer.
[07:36] <lapo> I'll install the release I think
[07:36] <lapo> if you need some icons (tango style) feel free to ping me
[07:36] <_MMA_> Cool. :)
[07:37] <lapo> _MMA_: since you're here can you suggest me a nice (and cheap) ieee1394 recording equipment
[07:37] <lapo> which work nicelly with ubuntustudio
[07:39] <lapo> _MMA_: I already have some tango style icons for the applications I use, I'll send them upstream, but if you need them ping me
[07:39] <_MMA_> lapo: Well 1394 Im really insure of since Ive never tested the stuff. Some guys in #ubuntustudio might be able to help. I know firewire support is one of the things we're working on but support for those devices are a crap-shoot.
[07:39] <lapo> cool
[07:41] <_MMA_> lapo: As for the icons I have no clue whats gonna happen with them in Hardy so who knows. :)
[07:42] <lapo> _MMA_: if you'll go tango style I'll surelly help out
[07:43] <terlmann> tangotango
[07:43] <lapo> _MMA_: tango style != tango icon theme eh
[07:43] <terlmann> only really
[07:44] <lapo> terlmann: it's oss you're free to use whatever you want if you don't like it use something else
[07:44] <_MMA_> lapo: I know whatcha mean. :) Our current set uses some Tango.
[07:44] <andreasn> ertz stuff?
[07:44] <andreasn> he did a nice job on that
[07:44] <terlmann> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/OranSun
[07:45] <terlmann> that's the icons i want
[07:45] <terlmann> :-)
[07:45] <terlmann> DAPPER look FTW
[07:45] <lapo> tangerine was a mistake
[07:45] <lapo> anyway
[07:45] <terlmann> actually I really liked it
[07:45] <terlmann> really liked it
[07:46] <terlmann> really really
[07:46] <terlmann> light orange goes so good with my picture of oranges
[07:46] <lapo> thanks, but it wvolved in an icon theme which was not its scope
[07:47] <lapo> tango style is the only way to have coherent desktop btw
[07:47] <lapo> troy_s: around
[07:48] <lapo> I have a folder design based on a troy folder which probably I should use in an experimental icon theme
[07:49] <nothlit> lapo: that u2 folder is slick :)
[07:49] <lapo> nothlit: it's troy stuff not mine
[07:50] <lapo> I just touched it up a lbit
[07:50] <andreasn> lapo: screenshot?
[07:50] <nothlit> lapo: your redesign is slick then :P
[07:50] <kwwii> terlmann: just to get things right, please do not say that for hardy we want any brown in the artwork...once again: we want black and orange
[07:50] <lapo> andreasn: uhm not sure I have them around
[07:51] <terlmann> o yea
[07:51] <terlmann> right
[07:51] <terlmann> forgot
[07:51] <lapo> kwwii: black and orange? sounds cool
[07:52] <lapo> kwwii: darkness!
[07:54] <_MMA_> Halloween. :D
[07:54] <lapo> andreasn: http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/troy/troys-folders.png
[07:54] <lapo> _MMA_: sue them tho! :-)
[07:54] <_MMA_> ;)
[07:54] <kwwii> lapo: yeah, wait till people start bitching about that
[07:55] <lapo> ahahah
[07:55] <andreasn> lapo: neat
[07:55] <terlmann> I'm gnna SUE SUE SUE !
[07:55] <lapo> kwwii: they would bitch whatever you do don't worry :-)
[07:56] <andreasn> lapo: the shape looks a bit tricky to make out what it is, but I mean, one will get used to it pretty quick
[07:56] <andreasn> lapo: and it actually looks like a folder :)
[07:56] <kwwii> lapo: no doubt
[07:56] <andreasn> my favorite is the striped folders though! :)
[07:56] <andreasn> kwwii: did you ever see the striped folders?
[07:56] <lapo> andreasn: it's a tad complex but It *could* work
[07:57] <lapo> andreasn: I care about your eyes, delete them immediatelly! :-)
[07:57] <nothlit> i loved the rainbow folders lol
[07:57] <lapo> guys that was actually a joke don't use it, it's clearly stated in the readme
[07:57] <andreasn> the internet seems to have forgotten all about them....
[07:57] <lapo> nice
[07:57] <lapo> :-)
[07:58] <kwwii> andreasn: nope, which ones?
[07:58] <kwwii> striped tango folders?
[07:58] <andreasn> kwwii: well, it was mostly a weird joke from lapo
[07:59] <kwwii> ;-)
[07:59] <lapo> http://xoomer.alice.it/bat/tmp/stripy-icon-theme-0.2.tar.gz
[07:59] <andreasn> nah, can't find any trace of them....
[07:59] <andreasn> ah! yay!
[07:59] <kwwii> not sure why we are discussing icons....doesn't everyone know that we are going to use crystal icons now that kde is done with them? :p
[08:00] <terlmann> no
[08:00] <terlmann> no
[08:00] <terlmann> no
[08:00] <terlmann> cry*
[08:00] <kwwii> terlmann: the more you say no the more I want to actually do it :D
[08:00] <lapo> eheh
[08:00] <terlmann> don't you dare start using that crappy overworked set of smut
[08:00] <lapo> naah crystal is a nice piece of artwork
[08:01] <terlmann> and everyone uses it
[08:01] <andreasn> kwwii: heh
[08:01] <lapo> tango as usability points on it, but it's cool
[08:01] <kwwii> I was everaldos boss and made quite a few of those icons
[08:01] <andreasn> kwwii: nice work on the small sized oxygen folders btw
[08:02] <kwwii> andreasn: dude, we probably spent more time on the folders than all the other icons combined ;-)
[08:02] <lapo> as usual
[08:02] <terlmann> why use what everyone uses ? kwwii : work has to be original. you just can't go using the same thing over and over. as for icons, what about an orange version of the icon theme snowish ?
[08:02] <lapo> kwwii: and are surelly the more bitched about :-)
[08:02] <kwwii> lapo: yeah, every time we changed them someone complained
[08:02] <andreasn> kwwii: :)
[08:02] <lapo> eheh
[08:02] <kwwii> terlmann: it was just a joke, settle down
[08:03] <lapo> I think andreasn can feel your pain
[08:03] <nothlit> recolouring a theme is reuse too
[08:03] <terlmann> not if noone use the original them
[08:03] <lapo> look at andreasn running away screaming
[08:03] <terlmann> avio is what I based ubuntu-fresh on] 
[08:03] <lapo> andreasn: WALLPAPER! :-)
[08:03] <andreasn> well, regarding folder icons Jakub probably have more experience at people being stupid about them :)
[08:03] <kwwii> terlmann: we will be looking into replacing human with something different but it'll have to be something that uses the tango guidelines as the new gnome icons use them
[08:03] <terlmann> good
[08:04] <terlmann> snowish then
[08:04] <terlmann> snowish svn
[08:04] <terlmann> I mean svg
[08:04] <terlmann> have you seen it ?
[08:04] <terlmann> I could dcc you a copy
[08:04] <nothlit> terlmann: btw, svg only icon themes is good, pixel versions are needed for all the small sizes
[08:04] <kwwii> btw, if we are going to make new icons we will probably have an open contract for someone to work on them if anyone is interested
[08:04] <nothlit> is not good*
[08:04] <nothlit> kwwii: a bounty or contract?
[08:05] <kwwii> lol, dcc to the server my irssi is running on
[08:05] <andreasn> lapo: I can of said the background was going to be a placeholder sort of, but I wonder if I keep silent, noone will bring it up again
[08:05] <kwwii> nothlit: a contract once we convince you-know-who
[08:05] <_MMA_> terlmann: Seriously I think yo uneed to take it down a notch. You're being way too forceful/demanding.
[08:05] <lapo> andreasn: eheh
[08:05] <terlmann> _MMA_ jea
[08:05] <lapo> kwwii: andreasn is interested in doing the icons
[08:06] <lapo> adreasn: RIGHT?! :-)
[08:06] <lapo> need to run,ciao
[08:06] <kwwii> lapo: I was already thinking of him ,-)
[08:06] <kwwii> ciao
[08:06] <andreasn> lapo: why do you always throw stuff at me?
[08:06] <nothlit> how is the kde wallpaper contest going btw
[08:06] <andreasn> :)
[08:06] <terlmann> kwwii : give me one moment
[08:06] <kwwii> nothlit: it is basically done, we are waiting for responses from all the winning entries so that I can announce the winner (and light the flame)
[08:06] <terlmann> one moment ,pls , to find you an artist for the icons
[08:07] <andreasn> kwwii: are you going to the ubuntu-meeting-thing in boston btw?
[08:07] <kwwii> andreasn: yepp, i have to - part of the job
[08:07] <terlmann> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=32599
[08:07] <kwwii> actually, I have to be there for two full weeks
[08:07] <terlmann> please take a look at this
[08:07] <andreasn> kwwii: I'm thinking of coming there, as I won't be going to the gnome boston summit
[08:07] <terlmann> lucky kwwii
[08:07] <terlmann> I would love to travel the country :-)
[08:08] <kwwii> terlmann: that is very osx-ish
[08:08] <kwwii> don't really like the folders either
[08:08] <andreasn> seems the smaller sizes needs some hinting
[08:08] <terlmann> yea , but we could beat him into changing it a little :-D
[08:08] <terlmann> or a lot
[08:08] <kwwii> andreasn: let me know if you need any help getting there or such...I can talk to my boss
[08:09] <nothlit> a redesign would be wiser
[08:09] <andreasn> kwwii: well, that would probably be nice
[08:09] <terlmann> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/HumanElephant+orange+-+blue?content=67081
[08:09] <terlmann> seen this yet kwwii ?
[08:09] <terlmann> this is brown
[08:10] <terlmann> vey vey brown : too brown. you want orange
[08:11] <nothlit> its far better to create new artwork with a clear purpose and direction than modifying exisiting artwork and kludge it to fit
[08:11] <kwwii> a bit too muddy looking
[08:12] <terlmann> yea
[08:12] <nothlit> terlmann: if you're cruising gnome-look, look for potential rather than their existing work as assets
[08:13] <terlmann> that's right
[08:15] <terlmann> http://www.taimila.com/?q=node/3
[08:15] <terlmann> here
[08:15] <terlmann> this guy
[08:16] <terlmann> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=41750
[08:16] <terlmann> here he is on gnome-look
[08:16] <kwwii> terlmann: dude, there is not going to be a decision on this for a long time...and in any case we would need to make mockups from all of this to convince those in charge to even do it to begin with
[08:17] <terlmann> well
[08:17] <terlmann> I am just gathering dust for you to sniff
[08:17] <nothlit> invite/email them if you want to make the process known to them
[08:18] <terlmann> sneeze all you want , its not bothering me
[08:18] <_MMA_> terlmann: I think it would be better on the WIKI.
[08:18] <_MMA_> Things get lost here.
[08:18] <_MMA_> Send all your ideas to a wiki that comes later.
[08:19] <_MMA_> (after tomorrows meeting Im guessing)
[08:19] <terlmann> lost already mma. I am just scoping out artists for kwwii to empress ( as in grab and throw them on his pirate ship to work to death )
[08:20] <kwwii>  gotta take the kid to bed, bbl
[08:20] <_MMA_> If you agree its lost here than make notes to put on the wiki later.
[08:21] <terlmann> make notes for these guys ?
[08:21] <terlmann> ok
[08:22] <nothlit> theres no winning or losing here
[08:22] <nothlit> either the entire community wins or loses, its not an individual thing
[08:22] <terlmann> I am not in this for me, just to let ya know :-)
[08:22] <terlmann> I am in this for all of us
[08:22] <terlmann> Ubuntu represents something to me
[08:22] <terlmann> I love it
[08:23] <terlmann> does anyone know if there is a multiplayer gnometris/tetris game ?
[08:24] <_MMA_> nothlit: I took it as he agreed his ideas are lost just throwing them in IRC.
[08:24] <_MMA_> nothlit: Not anyone specifically lost.
[08:25] <terlmann> _MMA_ : I keep logs. I will bring this back up 10000 times.
[08:25] <terlmann> as for the wiki , I want feedback.
[08:25] <terlmann> not everyone wants to edit a wiki page
[08:26] <_MMA_> terlmann: Why/what will you "bring back up 10000 times"?
[08:26] <terlmann> I will keep a log and remember my topics , and I will mention all of them in any conversations i have on this , and at the meeting.
[08:27] <nothlit> as long as you stick to the agenda :D
[08:29] <_MMA_> terlmann: But you just agreed that mentioning them here gets them lost. So whats the point of "bringing this back up 10000 times" or "in any conversation"?
[08:30] <terlmann> just joking
[08:30] <terlmann> stating my commitment
[08:31] <_MMA_> Thats fine but man Im telling you spamming the channel isnt gonna get you what you want. And that mostly looks to be attention.
[08:34] <terlmann> _MMA_ : trolling is an essential part of politics. Bush does it all the time.
[08:34] <terlmann> :-)
[08:35] <_MMA_> I realize now you're joking but trust me, this wouldnt fly in the development channels.
[08:36] <terlmann> got it
[08:36] <terlmann>  -artwork off-topic tolerance = 150% of tolerance in -*
[08:37] <terlmann> I got to talk to sabdfl a little
[08:37] <terlmann> he seems ok
[08:38] <nothlit> terlmann: oh you started a dcc? resend
[08:38] <terlmann> ok
[08:39] <nothlit> you're using port 0
[08:39] <nothlit> Warning: Port sent with DCC request is a lowport (0, unknown) - this isn't normal. It is possible the address/port is faked (or maybe someone is just trying to bypass firewall)
[08:39] <terlmann> could be faked
[08:39] <terlmann> I use port 8887
[08:40] <terlmann> * Connecting to chat.freenode.net (204.11.244.21) port 8001...
[08:40] <terlmann> 8001
[08:43] <terlmann> 192.168.0.105 : 37040
[08:43] <terlmann> is where it is going out
[08:44] <terlmann> I think this is at your end "U"
[08:45] <nothlit> its the same client that was used last time you sent
[08:45] <nothlit> been open this whole time, no changes
[08:45] <terlmann> hmm
[08:45] <terlmann> I changed a setting
[08:45] <nothlit> send to nothlit`alpha
[08:46] <nothlit> yeah, neither of them can connect, and one isn't run by me
[08:46] <terlmann> hmm
[08:46] <terlmann> must be xchat
[09:33] <thorwil> hi!
[09:37] <nothlit> heyas
[09:39] <_MMA_> thorwil here is largely responsible for the look of Ardour2. ;)
[09:39] <thorwil> heh
[09:40] <thorwil> just icons and sliders. the colour theme ain't my job :)
[09:43] <lassegul> Hi people.
[09:43] <lassegul> Anyone got any clue on how many will show up for the meeting tomorrow?
[09:44] <_MMA_> I will.
[09:44] <lassegul> _MMA_: :) good, you have a clear overview then.
[09:45] <_MMA_> I think. :)
[09:46] <thorwil> ooh, 17:00 utc is 19:00 in gmt+2 (germany)?
[09:46] <lassegul> yep.
[09:47] <thorwil> maybe i'll come in late. i'd likely be more of a lurker, anyway :)
[09:52] <dmccall> I will :)
[09:58] <troy_s> lots of chatter
[09:58] <troy_s> lapo did some nice work on that folder icon.
[09:59] <lassegul> troy_s: that folder was beautiful
[09:59] <troy_s> except that 48 and less size debacle
[09:59] <lassegul> troy_s: kinda looked like a flower
[09:59] <troy_s> we should probably work harder on getting the bloody smaller resolutions sizes out of block hell.
[09:59] <troy_s> lassegul: Yeah lapo did a rework on some u2 bits I did.
[09:59] <troy_s> lassegul: He did an impressive job on them.
[10:00] <lassegul> kwwii: u2 bits?
[10:00] <lassegul> ah sorry, i mean troy_s
[10:00] <troy_s> lassegul: hit tr then tab you get me.
[10:00] <troy_s> :)
[10:00] <lassegul> troy_s: and i understood waht u2 was
[10:01] <lassegul> troy_s: :-)
[10:04] <troy_s> lassegul: Unfortunately since the deluge of requests, u2 has backseated.
[10:05] <troy_s> lassegul: Unfortunate.
[10:06] <lassegul> troy_s: i wanted to have a look at it again, but i couldnt find it. link?
[10:07] <lassegul> troy_s: forget it. i found it :P
[10:07] <troy_s> lassegul: There should be a full bzr repo on launchpad.
[10:08] <troy_s> lassegul: If you have anything you think works, let me know.  I'll happily try to integrate it.
[10:22] <nothlit> troy_s: do you actually use a tablet for inkscape work? i end up just using an optical mouse
[10:22] <troy_s> nothlit: I can't really do much work without something to start with from my hand.  So yes, tablet.
[10:22] <nysosym> work with vektors in much easier with a mouse i think
[10:22] <lassegul> troy_s: yeah actually, i loaned a tablet, but i couldnt get used to it.
[10:23] <troy_s> nothlit: Although in the case of clean splines, I actually find it easier to detail it on paper via traditional means and ink it in inkscape.
[10:23] <troy_s> nothlit: Rather like oldschool comic artistry.
[10:23] <troy_s> nysosym: I would probably disagree.
[10:23] <troy_s> nothlit: The most useful feature of Inkscape is the one that I still haven't seen reported much -- the calligraphy tool -- which I use more or less as an all around painting tool.
[10:24] <troy_s> nothlit: You can rapidly build up to thousands of sketch shapes -- easily modded into singulars via ctrl shft +
[10:24] <nothlit> yeah, its pretty neat, some of it has been moved to the tweak tool though
[10:24] <troy_s> nothlit: It simply feels so much like the evolution of digital artwork that it is difficult to go back to any raster tools.
[10:25] <nothlit> lol
[10:25] <troy_s> nothlit: Having those shapes as 'entities' and the strokes all individual is priceless.
[10:26] <troy_s> nothlit: That's just it... if you change the blend modes you can get that oil based feel.
[10:26] <nothlit> its slower that with enough layers, especially with complex images that its easier to just repaint the whole thing/area than edit nodes
[10:27] <troy_s> nothlit: If you stay away from blurs while you do your basics, it is very responsive.
[10:27] <troy_s> nothlit: The real trick is to utilize a workflow as you build upwards.
[10:27] <nothlit> and i hate the inorganic aspect of it, as great as it is for design
[10:28] <troy_s> nothlit: For example (I think I told lassegul this little trick) to export a layer once you are close and import it as a snapshot.
[10:28] <nothlit> yeah he relayed it
[10:28] <troy_s> nothlit: That is why the calligraphy tool with tremor / wiggle is amazing.
[10:28] <lassegul> troy_s: you did. and its still a pain in the ass to get used to but its necessary
[10:28] <nothlit> troy_s: have you updated your svn lately?
[10:28] <nothlit> troy_s: all that functionality has been moved into the tweak tool, plus more
[10:28] <troy_s> nothlit: You can finesse it right into your desired zone and you do away with all the starchy spliney feel.
[10:29] <troy_s> nothlit: I just built it.  Lol.  I suppose I should sudo make install.  I generally do a build once every week or so.  More if instability happens and I need a revert.
[10:29] <kwwii> anyone here speak french well?
[10:29] <troy_s> kwwii: Someone does extremely well... can't remember.
[10:29] <troy_s> kwwii: What's the need for french?
[10:30] <nothlit> lol
[10:30] <troy_s> iydmma
[10:30] <nothlit> us two canadians can't speak enough french :P
[10:30] <kwwii> I received an email from a french guy about artwork stuff and I have no idea what he is talking about
[10:30] <troy_s> kwwii: Uh babelfish?
[10:30] <lassegul> kwwii: i know a little french
[10:30] <kwwii> first he asked if we could do the meeting in french :p
[10:30] <troy_s> kwwii: Yet more of the frontier of global communication woes.
[10:30] <kwwii> and now he sent me an email with a link to a french forum with some ideas
[10:30] <lassegul> kwwii: you must learn french then translate on the fly.
[10:30] <troy_s> kwwii: As is timezone hell.
[10:31] <kwwii> no doubt
[10:31] <troy_s> kwwii: One of the reasons that IRC simply sucks in the modern world -- those nasty time zone differences.
[10:31] <nothlit> irc needs more sophisticated offline messaging
[10:31] <troy_s> nothlit: Or just a mailing list.  lol.
[10:31] <nothlit> either that or we all move to jabber
[10:32] <nothlit> troy_s: yeah but thats less spontaneous/freeflow
[10:32] <troy_s> nothlit: It's no wonder that some of foss ends up being a big clump of a given country sometimes.
[10:32] <kwwii> we have a wiki and a mailing list....yet people want a forum and a gallery, and and and
[10:32] <kwwii> I think that if we thin things out too much it will only get worse
[10:32] <troy_s> kwwii: Too much.  I don't think I could stress that enough.
[10:33] <lassegul> kwwii: i agree, but i think we should prioritize the gallery
[10:33] <troy_s> kwwii: Especially, as I tried to be painfully clear earlier -- for people who work full time with careers in the industry etc.
[10:33] <nothlit> the wiki is just horrible lol, GutsyIdeas is proof of the mess
[10:33] <lassegul> nothlit: +1
[10:33] <troy_s> nothlit: Is it the wiki or the people contributing?
[10:33] <nothlit> troy_s: both, but the medium is not ideal for this sort of thing
[10:33] <troy_s> nothlit: Seems logical to me to NOT submit 10000000 res images... apparently I am near alone on that.  Imagemagick does the trick well.
[10:34] <nothlit> nah, i've thumbnailed a few images on the wiki, and mma as well
[10:34] <troy_s> nothlit: Once again, I would probably suggest that it would take at least three cycles to get people into a workflow.  It will not happen overnight, and it takes patience.
[10:34] <nothlit> _MMA_: as kwwii stated, hardy will come out during the opposite time of year of halloween :P
[10:34] <lassegul> nothlit: we should find out how to reduce our arenas. or at least keep the important stuff on to just a couple of them.
[10:34] <_MMA_> nothlit: Yeah, I know. Total shame. :(
[10:35] <lassegul> troy_s: how can one use time to get used to putting artwork in to a gallery in stead of a wiki page?
[10:35] <troy_s> lassegul: More or less done.  The biggest gap is the fact that _someone_ needs to check on the forums.  Of course, this is rather irrelevant if there really isn't anything to discuss.  lol.
[10:35] <nothlit> well, the best thing is if we could move everything to some sort of project management system for artwork i suppose
[10:35] <nothlit> but i doubt thats going to happen
[10:36] <troy_s> lassegul: The point you are missing is that the wiki is tied to launchpad.  It has a great upside to that if someone ever cared to utilize it.
[10:36] <troy_s> lassegul: Wiki pages attached to Launchpad specs automatically inform all team members of changes progress etc.
[10:36] <troy_s> nothlit: No reason.
[10:36] <lassegul> troy_s: but so few does. then what does it matter.
[10:36] <_MMA_> nothlit: Great management of the Ubuntu art can happen with the tools we now have. Just needs someone to take things by the horns. ;)
[10:36] <troy_s> lassegul: I think that's the point.  :)
[10:37] <troy_s> _MMA_: There isn't anything to manage.  Hard to grab horns on a dog.
[10:37] <lassegul> troy_s: i know about the saying "dont fix it if it isnt broken" but as you say yourself, per se its a dog, not a bull. we must make it a bull.
[10:37] <_MMA_> troy_s: You just needed to comment on something didnt you? :)
[10:38] <nothlit> troy_s: you guys want everything to be on <one> system
[10:38] <troy_s> lassegul: I am all for expanding complexity when needed.  My question is -- is it needed?
[10:38] <nothlit> imo, it reduces complexity
[10:38] <troy_s> lassegul: When all of this fever started up it was over nothing that anyone in the community really had any control over.
[10:38] <lassegul> troy_s: lets avoid complexity
[10:39] <_MMA_> nothlit: I think between bzr, the ML, WIKI and some forum feedback things will work fine. :)
[10:39] <nothlit> you can read the email if you want, don't want to rehash things
[10:39] <troy_s> lassegul: And that, in the end, is exactly what I am getting at.  Hell... to a certain extent, it is purely a communication gap -- "Hey guys -- this is going to be the default wallpaper."
[10:39] <_MMA_> Its just that that is a job in and of itself.
[10:39] <lassegul> troy_s: the gallery is the communication!
[10:39] <lassegul> troy_s: or at least part of it.
[10:39] <lassegul> troy_s: so is the wiki.
[10:39] <troy_s> lassegul: Wrong.  Not if people are looking in the forums.  Again it is all about audience.  The forums are the FIRST touchpoint of an average Ubuntu user.
[10:40] <troy_s> lassegul: Further down the list might be a wiki, then mailing list, then last probably IRC.
[10:40] <lassegul> troy_s: where would a gallery land?
[10:40] <troy_s> lassegul: Web based stuffs provide the agency for an _average_ user.
[10:40] <troy_s> lassegul: "Oh yeah guys, we also have a gallery."
[10:40] <kwwii> the biggest problem until now have proven to be: 1) not enough information beforehand and 2) not enough information during the final stages ...none of that has anything to do with the media in which the information is given
[10:40] <nothlit> lassegul: between forums and wiki, hopefully
[10:40] <lassegul> troy_s: i would think it would land right after the forums.
[10:40] <nothlit> troy_s: have you read my email?
[10:40] <troy_s> +1 to kwwi.
[10:40] <troy_s> kwwii even.
[10:41] <troy_s> lassegul: Really?
[10:41] <lassegul> troy_s: yeah.
[10:41] <troy_s> lassegul: I would take some side betting on that.
[10:41] <lassegul> :)
[10:41] <troy_s> It is simply a point place.
[10:41] <troy_s> Really, this could just as easily been solved in an Ubuntu weekly news posting by kwwii.
[10:41] <lassegul> troy_s: but we probably wont do it, so i save my money :)
[10:42] <troy_s> In fact, that might make it the most accessible place.  Further still... digg gets around to it when people care.  lol.
[10:42] <troy_s> nothlit: WHERE DID MY TREMOR GO?!?!
[10:42] <nothlit> troy_s:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2007-September/004112.html
[10:42] <kwwii> I do agree that we need some help with keeping people up to date on things...using launchpad correctly, updating the wiki and sending more mails to the list as well as having meetings and having a few people to handle the forum side of things would help
[10:42] <nothlit> tremor? huh?
[10:42] <lassegul> troy_s: 10% reads those news postings. 5% visits the wiki. kwwii the information was out there, it wasnt broadcasted good enough.
[10:42] <troy_s> nothlit: inkscape.
[10:43] <troy_s> nothlit: That posting again begs the question "WHY"
[10:43] <nothlit> troy_s: into the tweak tool, the one that looks like a wave
[10:43] <troy_s> nothlit: grr.
[10:43] <nothlit> shift+f2, roughen parts of paths
[10:43] <troy_s> nothlit: NOOOO
[10:43] <troy_s> nothlit: WTF.
[10:43] <kwwii> lassegul: there is a lot of information that needs to be given in advance: what is our target audience, what is the palette, which stylistic direction do we want to go, etc.
[10:43] <troy_s> nothlit: How the hell are you supposed to make strokes with tremor... oh lord.
[10:44] <lassegul> kwwii: I agree...
[10:44] <kwwii> some of that I was afraid to define for fear of making a mistake and some of it I purposely held back to increase peoples creativity (wrongly)
[10:44] <troy_s> its still there.
[10:44] <troy_s> phew.
[10:45] <kwwii> anyway...time for bed. tomorrow will be a long day I thikn
[10:45] <kwwii> s/thikn/think
[10:45] <_MMA_> ;)
[10:45] <lassegul> kwwii: i may be wrong on this one. My gut tells me that 99% of deviantart user wont be able to use launchpad.
[10:45] <lassegul> 50% wont be able to use wiki pages.
[10:45] <kwwii> someone is supposed to start a forum thread now in which they disagree with my decision that tomorrow will be long day
[10:45] <troy_s> Last time I checked sabdfl has complained on more than one occasion that his view of colour is that anything greater than monochromatic "confuses the palette" -- his words.
[10:46] <kwwii> lassegul: launchapd will be the work of myself and a few others who understand the process
[10:46] <kwwii> the wiki will be usefull and need to be understood
[10:46] <kwwii> but if I can learn to use a wiki anyone can
[10:46] <lassegul> kwwii: ?
[10:46] <troy_s> lassegul: Launchpad is deadly easy.  Produce your work.  bzr push.  wow.
[10:46] <kwwii> heck, you can edit a page and then just cut and paste things on a wiki
[10:46] <troy_s> that said, where is sabdfl in all of this?
[10:47] <troy_s> lassegul: Do you really want anyone doing any work who can't edit a wiki page?
[10:47] <nothlit> troy_s: a.u.c gets 30,000 visits per week now already--people visit the site already, its a good place for people to get to what they really want to see, images, and still allows for comments
[10:47] <kwwii> I have talked to him a lot about this and he stands behind me to give support and direction which I will then broadcast
[10:47] <lassegul> troy_s: Maybe not.
[10:47] <nothlit> troy_s: it makes more sense and would be easier to use than the wiki for concept art and displaying progress
[10:48] <kwwii> because we are going in a new direction I have much more chance to change things and therefor less fear of making a mistake by not "doing what he wants"
[10:48] <troy_s> kwwii: Yes, but what about the tougher questions -- like implementing a palette etc.
[10:48] <lassegul> THen we have to organize the wiki much better than it is organized today.
[10:48] <troy_s> kwwii: He seems to nod his head early, and shake it later.
[10:48] <kwwii> troy_s: I will take care of that (already started really)
[10:49] <troy_s> (and by palette I don't mean bloody brown and black obviously.)
[10:49] <kwwii> troy_s: luckily I went through creating an entire set of artwork for the mobile stuff which he liked (that took a long time) so I know where I stand on things this time around
[10:49] <nothlit> troy_s: not just people who will take as active an interest, or community participants at all can take a look
[10:49] <troy_s> nothlit: Arguably that isn't really healthy either.  Have a look at gnome-look's top rated 'look' -- its a knockoff.
[10:49] <lassegul> nothlit: yeah, this will keep the angry mob back somewhat.
[10:50] <lassegul> troy_s: we arent going for user voting anyways.
[10:51] <nothlit> troy_s: but the forum users are going to demand a way to give feedback, comments on an image won't turn into a revolt like a thread, easy to maintain and scan as well
[10:51] <troy_s> weird... I can't get my tablet up now.
[10:51] <nothlit> gutsy on a whole, sounds broken, and is for me atm
[10:52] <troy_s> nothlit: Make no mistake -- I am 100% for transparency and always have been as everything I have said is hopefully a testament to.
[10:52] <troy_s> kwwii: Where is the set?
[10:53] <nothlit> http://sinecera.de/apps_0.3.png
[10:54] <troy_s> nothlit: That isn't the set.  I would be interested in seeing the set.
[10:54] <kwwii> nothlit: that is one mockup, but that shows you the idea
[10:54] <kwwii> troy_s: it is still be produced
[10:54] <troy_s> ahh.
[10:54] <kwwii> but the ideas behind the art are set
[10:54] <kwwii> we have had lots of technical difficulties
[10:57] <troy_s> weird... ok /dev/input/wacom is properly sym'd to /dev/input/event4 but nothing works.
[10:57] <troy_s> i wonder if i should be pulling directly from event4 for a test... grr.
[10:58] <lassegul> kwwii: last thing: are you serious or joking about crystal icons in ubuntu?
[10:58] <nothlit> lassegul: joking looool
[10:58] <lassegul> whooow.
[10:58] <lassegul> :)
[10:58] <lassegul> not that they arent nice and all :)
[11:01] <lassegul> well im going to give cheerios another shot. I had a bad experience with them last night. The milk was old, so i was gonna throw it out, but to liquid for the trash can, to solid for the sink, i flushed it down the toilet. But those damn cheerios wont sink!
[11:01] <lassegul> bye.
[11:02] <troy_s> Whoa.  Don't eat any more green smarties.
[11:05] <troy_s> well that blows.
[11:11] <troy_s> does anyone here have a tablet working under gutsy?
[11:11] <_MMA_> Mine does.
[11:15] <troy_s> _MMA_: How?  Did you do anything?
[11:16] <_MMA_> I have the normal stuff done. wacom-tools installed and a tweaked xorg.
[11:17] <troy_s> _MMA_: Apparently Gutsy properly sets wacom.
[11:17] <troy_s> _MMA_: But for the life of me, I can't get mine to do pressure sensitivity now.
[11:17] <troy_s> _MMA_: It works, and after the standard cat / dev/input etc I know I have the right one.
[11:18] <_MMA_> Ill pastebin my wacom bits of my xorg.
[11:18] <troy_s> _MMA_: But both gimp and ink are giving me 'no extended input devices found'
[11:18] <_MMA_> odd..
[11:18] <troy_s> very
[11:21] <_MMA_> troy_s: Here's all I have in my xorg for wacom: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/39307
[11:22] <troy_s> hrm... did you make that?
[11:22] <troy_s> and if so... when has 'usb ON' been in the xorg?
[11:24] <troy_s> crossing fingers -- _MMA_ you rock.
[11:25] <troy_s> grr... still nothing.
[11:25] <troy_s> how ... weird.
[11:25] <_MMA_> To answer your last question, its the one Ive been using since Dapper I think. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=25151
[11:26] <troy_s> how bloody weird.
[11:26] <troy_s> it's there... nothing different than the past four versions of ubuntu i have done.
[11:26] <troy_s> but it refuses to come up under extended input devices.
[11:27] <_MMA_> hmm.... Inkscape and GIMP both work here.
[11:27] <troy_s> well WTF
[11:28] <_MMA_> I dont think it matters that Im on the -rt kernel.
[11:28] <troy_s> shouldn't no.
[11:28] <_MMA_> Ill check -generic.
[11:28] <troy_s> i wonder if the usb mouse is confusing it.
[11:32] <_MMA_> troy_s: I run a USB mouse here. Can you test to make sure your pad is showing as an event?
[11:34] <troy_s> _MMA_: Yeah it is working -- I can control the cursor with it and get the output on the cat /dev/input/event4
[11:35] <_MMA_> But no pressure?
[11:35] <_MMA_> Oh I see. Its acting like a mouse.
[11:36] <troy_s> _MMA_: It apparently works, but isn't coming up under extended input devices for either G or I.
[11:37] <_MMA_> troy_s: Does "sudo wacdump /dev/input/wacom" output anything promising?
[11:37] <troy_s> well lets see
[11:37] <troy_s> yep
[11:37] <troy_s> works fine
[11:38] <troy_s> pressure buttons everything
[11:39] <_MMA_> Hmm...
[11:39] <troy_s> how strange
[11:40] <_MMA_> Looks like its recognized by the system just not the apps.
[11:40] <_MMA_> /me digs a bit.
[11:40] <troy_s> _MMA_: Exactly.  And it appears in normal working order.
[11:41] <troy_s> (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Configured Mouse" (type: MOUSE)
[11:41] <troy_s> (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Generic Keyboard" (type: KEYBOARD)
[11:41] <troy_s> Doesn't seem to want to add anything else.
[11:42] <_MMA_> This just started right? And what model is it?
[11:42] <troy_s> _MMA_: This one is the shitty Graphire.
[11:43] <_MMA_> Which one though?
[11:44] <troy_s> _MMA_: They work great for quick and dirty bits, but my intu is just a better unit.
[11:44] <troy_s> Erm methinks this is a 2.
[11:45] <_MMA_> Odd. Thats should be golden then.
[11:45] <troy_s> Might be a 1.
[11:45] <troy_s> Honestly can't remember.
[11:45] <_MMA_> I hope to get a intuos. :)
[11:46] <_MMA_> Well wacdump should tell you the model.
[11:47] <_MMA_> Oh I can dream... http://www.amazon.com/Wacom-Intuos3-12X19-Tablet-PTZ1231W/dp/B000E6IJ6C
[11:48] <troy_s> Bugger that... go straight to Cintiq
[11:48] <troy_s> lol
[11:49] <troy_s> AHhh... might have it... sendcoreevents were commented out.
[11:49] <troy_s> let's see..
[11:49] <troy_s> brb
[11:50] <troy_s> woop.
[11:50] <_MMA_> :)
[11:50] <_MMA_> Is that good?
[11:50] <troy_s> _MMA_: Remind me that when we finally meet each other in real life to buy you a beer.
[11:50] <_MMA_> ;)
[11:50] <_MMA_> If I drank. :)
[11:51] <troy_s> Yikes.  Another one.
[11:51] <troy_s> Ditto.
[11:51] <troy_s> :(
[11:51] <troy_s> Ok lattee.
[11:51] <troy_s> latte even.
[11:51] <_MMA_> Just make me a pallet for Hardy and we're even. ;)
[11:51] <_MMA_> *palette
[11:52] <troy_s> _MMA_: Lol.  Defer to higher brains.  Use a Krause to avoid bikesheds.
[11:52] <kwwii> does a cintiq work with linux?
[11:52] <troy_s> _MMA_: Then when the inevitable 'XXX is YYY', you can simply reply "Well this is designed by the guy who has developed high level ad campaigns for MS, Apple, and a few other small companies.  Please forwards your comments to him."
[11:52] <troy_s> kwwii: I would think so.
[11:53] <troy_s> kwwii: Can neither confirm nor deny, but I would expect the same tech under the hood.
[11:53] <kwwii> hrm, maybe I should buy one...tried one out for a week on windows - never tried it on linux
[11:53] <troy_s> kwwii: I could ask my buddy at Technicolour.
[11:53] <_MMA_> kwwii: http://linuxwacom.sourceforge.net/index.php/main
[11:53] <kwwii> troy_s: if you think about, ask him - I would be interested to know
[11:54] <troy_s> Only 2700 bucks.
[11:54] <kwwii> w00t
[11:54] <troy_s> not horribly useful unless you do inking
[11:54] <_MMA_>  Graphire 1, 2, 3 & 4, Cintiq & CintiqPartner, Intuos 1, 2, & 3, Volito 1 & 2, PenPartner 1 & 2, PL & DTF, Bamboo
[11:54] <troy_s> at which point it is a useful tool.
[11:54] <kwwii> troy_s: yeah, but I can take it off my taxes
[11:55] <kwwii> I've been working on the design of my friends rally car and motorcycle - that would be really cool to have long term
[11:55] <_MMA_> troy_s: Have any links re: creating palettes?
[11:56] <troy_s> Here is your answer from http://linuxwacom.sourceforge.net/
[11:56] <troy_s> Supported USB Devices
[11:56] <kwwii> I have an intuos2 and 3 but it is so much nicer working directly on the monitor
[11:56] <troy_s> Cintiq & CintiqPartner
[11:56] <_MMA_> troy_s: Already posted. ^^^
[11:56] <kwwii> yeah, just saw that
[11:56] <troy_s> _MMA_: Fecker.
[11:56] <troy_s> _MMA_: DIe.
[11:56] <_MMA_> :P
[11:56] <troy_s> lol
[11:56] <troy_s> napping
[11:57] <troy_s> _MMA_: Depends on how you want to start.  If you start out with basic colour theory, the defacto best tool online thus far is colorscheme2
[11:57] <_MMA_> troy_s: Joe's gotta get the Trem server back up so I can chomp your head. ;)
[11:57] <troy_s> _MMA_: Trem no work here cuz the nasty nvidia drivers suck for Gutsy.
[11:57] <troy_s> _MMA_: Which blows.
[11:58] <_MMA_> ? Odd. They rock here for my 7950GT and Dell 2405.
[11:58] <_MMA_> Which card do yo uhave?
[11:58] <_MMA_> *you have?
[11:58] <troy_s> 7300 with 256 (its older)
[11:58] <troy_s> they are completely flakey as in freezups and the rest of it.
[11:58] <troy_s> or it is a gutsy thing (of which no one seems to care yet on launchpad)
[11:59] <_MMA_> Oh that should be totally fine. nvidia-glx-new or nvidia-glx?
[11:59] <troy_s> _MMA_: Well from what I have seen, it appears to be nvidia-glx-new -- I can't get nvidia-glx to take
[11:59] <_MMA_> How odd.
[12:00] <troy_s> _MMA_: As much as I would like to run with gl accel.
[12:00] <troy_s> agave is weak compared to colorscheme
[12:01] <troy_s> to quote the best adage I have ever heard regarding colour theory...
[12:01] <_MMA_> Oh come on... You gotta be quicker than that.
[12:02] <_MMA_> Taking forever to Google eh? ;)
[12:02] <troy_s> _MMA_: Looking for the real quote you bugger.
[12:02] <troy_s> _MMA_: It's very relevant.
[12:02] <_MMA_> :D
[12:03] <troy_s> _MMA_: Most people have zero clue regarding colour palettes.  They tend to start with a colour and give some sort of close hue variant and call it a 'palette'.
[12:03] <troy_s> Like Orange/Yellow and black or white... _NOT_ a palette.
[12:04] <troy_s> _MMA_: A palette is more or less sculpted out of the basics -- Analogous, Analogous with Variation, Split compliment, Triad, or Quad.
[12:04] <troy_s> Monochrome I suppose is a 'palette', but certainly not ideal.
[12:05] <troy_s> (although all colours are ultimately wound into that complicated mess of contemporary design meets theory etc.)
[12:06] <_MMA_> Well Ill get something together with colorscheme2 and you give me a "looks good" or beat me about the head with some art snobbery. ;)
[12:06] <troy_s> _MMA_: Naw.  It comes down to so many factors.
[12:07] <troy_s> _MMA_: There was even a good push of dissonant not too long ago.
[12:07] <troy_s> _MMA_: Value is probably the most important factor to watch for initially.  Then test them against each other.
[12:07] <troy_s> _MMA_: Remember though, the human eye colour corrects which is why, again, it is important to have a non monochromatic schema.  If the eye sits in a spread of monochrome, it will tune it out.
[12:08] <_MMA_> Oh jesus man. I feel like you're saying "The only guidelines are there are not guidelines". :)
[12:08] <troy_s> _MMA_: That's what I am saying more or less.  That's the nature of art.  Color Scheme 2 will give you pure math though.
[12:08] <troy_s> _MMA_: Start with your base, plug it in, and work your way around to a set that feels good for you and what you are hoping to deliver.
[12:09] <troy_s> :)
[12:09] <troy_s> _MMA_: DIY look might be good to stay bold for example -- maybe compliments?
[12:09] <troy_s> _MMA_: Make sense?  Analogous might not deliver that start contrasting feel... but it is tough to speculate.
[12:10] <troy_s> _MMA_: Colour just doesn't live alone.  Context.
[12:11] <nysosym> gn8
[12:12] <_MMA_> troy_s: 009BF9 what about "Tetrad"?
[12:13] <troy_s> _MMA_: Yep.  Great contrast there.
[12:15] <troy_s> _MMA_: You can also walk your way around if you are trying to deliver say, 12 or so colours... meaning grab onto an angle that you like, and choose one of the colours as your 'basic secondary' and flesh it out as your new 'primary'.  Make sense?
[12:17] <_MMA_> I like the Green that comes from "max" "Angle/Distance"
[12:17] <_MMA_> CEF900
[12:20] <_MMA_> troy_s: Ill bbiab. (wifes home)