RotundThis is particularly important for things like tests that should be reviewed long before the last one is written.12:02
lukswell, that is a different problem12:02
RotundI suppose you could do a "reviewed" branch and limit commit rights12:03
luksI think that's the most common solution the branch/merge development model12:04
RotundI've got a lot of concerns I have to alleviate if they consider it.12:05
RotundMostly it'll need a new process definition.12:06
abentleyDistributed version control usually works on the basis that it's easier to get forgiveness than permission.12:08
RotundOr you throw a fancy gatekeeper or plugin in to do it.12:08
RotundWe're in the kind of business where people die if we mess up, so people want tight control.12:09
abentleyWell, even so, anyone can work on any file at any time.  It's hoped that the changes won't conflict, but running the risk of conflicts is considered worthwhile for the benefits it gives.12:09
abentleyGatekeepers don't necessarily have to be fancy.  If you have reviewers, they can be the gatekeepers.12:10
RotundI think it's a great model for full development, but I'm wondering how to make it work w/ 100 independent tests.12:10
Rotundtrue, true.  Just gotta make sure THEY know the rules.12:11
Rotundthat's much easier.12:11
Rotundcan BZR do automated header generation?12:12
abentleyRotund, no, but it has hooks for running scripts on commit.12:13
RotundHmmm.  That should work.12:13
RotundI definitely like the idea of a PQM.12:13
RotundThat to me would be great.12:13
Rotundkeeps people from doing that stupid commit on Friday night that breaks everything.12:14
RotundOr worse... before going on vacation.12:15
RotundI'll definitely have to look into how to do plugins.12:16
RotundAny support for things outside straight text?12:16
RotundA way to diff docs would be great, but rtf files should be doable, right?  That's text I think.12:17
Rotund(can't wait for docx/odf)12:17
abentleyThe tool will not damage binary data, but does not have inbuilt support for diffing other types.  There is a plugin that lets you use an arbitrary diff12:18
RotundHmmm.  Can you write a plugin that can add attributes to files?12:25
RotundLike, can I have one that would add an attribute "reviewed" that's a boolean?12:26
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schierbeckhi guys12:41
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schierbeckphanatic: bundle-buggy kicks ass12:57
phanaticschierbeck: indeed :) huge thanks to jelmer for setting it up!12:58
schierbeckjelmer rules :)12:58
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spivlifeless: sent04:00
poolielifeless, did you build debs?04:05
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lifelesspoolie: build failure04:19
lifelessits a background task, cycling on it all day04:20
poolielifeless, for johnf's patch i'm just going to add a test in RemoteTransportRegistration to make sure we can get the transport04:55
poolieok with you?04:55
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lifelesspoolie: sounds good05:51
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lifelessabentley: beautiful name06:56
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pooliecontinuing the buggy theme07:25
lifelessas well as being trac inverted07:28
pooliei think it's bogus for attempt_lock to explicitly check transport.is_readonly07:29
poolierather than just letting the lock attempt fail07:29
lifelessI agree07:32
lifelessit may have been a premature optimisation07:32
pooliei'd like an  attempt to commit to a readonly transport to say:07:32
pooliebzr: error: cannot commit to http.........: transport is readonly07:32
poolieit might be a bit clearer to say "location is readonly"07:33
lifelessit could be that its readonly07:33
lifeless$location cannot be locked (it is readonly)07:33
poolieactually, right07:33
poolieraising it from the lockdir layer is good07:33
lifeless$location cannot be locked (IO error creating lockdir)07:33
poolieit's probably reasonably clear to say 'cannot be locked'07:33
poolieand follow it with the underlying message07:34
pooliedo you think people will understand why?07:34
lifelessI think it is an improvement07:34
lifelessI don't know if its enough07:34
james_wI don't think it is enough.07:36
james_wpoolie: just for reference, some commands that require a write raise LockError (well, a subclass), others I think raise TransportNotPossible, and there are probably some that raise something else.07:37
james_wthe transportNotPossible one is at least partially intelligible, if only because it is not an internal error.07:37
pooliejames_w, yes, i can see there is some unneeded diversity07:38
pooliewhat do you think would be a good message?07:38
james_wIf you can't be more specific to pick out the protocols where this is likely a user misunderstanding, then at least put readonly in there, even at the risk of being wrong sometimes.07:39
pooliejames_w, i looked for your previous patch btw but couldn't find it07:40
pooliewhat we want to communicate seems to be07:40
poolie- you were trying to write to $url and couldn't07:40
poolie- this is the expected behaviour, not a bug07:40
james_wYou don't have to assert that it is readonly, just that it is a possibility, and perhaps hint that the user should check the transport they are using. (Maybe using urlspec as a pointer).07:41
poolie- because you can't write over $protocol07:41
poolieit might be good to hint you could use another protocol07:41
james_wYou were trying to write to $url and couldn't. This is usually because $transport is readonly. You may be able to use another transport to complete the operation see 'bzr help urlspec' for details on the avaiable transports.07:42
poolieif we fix this for readonly protocols people will still hit similar situations when eg they don't have permission for that directory07:43
james_wor perhaps 'bzr help transports' which would explain the issue in more depth, and then point to urlspec. Perhaps it could suggest the common ways to change the transport.07:43
james_wpoolie: yes indeed. Perhaps that could be another sentence. However transport issues seem to be far more prevalent.07:44
lifelessI don't think transport and urlspec should be separated07:52
lifelessurlspec is afterall simply the address of a transport07:52
lifelesspoolie: can't write over transport OR can normally but some [transient?]  limitation has occured07:53
poolieyes, i know07:53
pooliei think this will be sufficiently improved by07:54
pooliefailed to lock $url: $reason07:54
poolieas a noninternal error07:54
pooliealso, i wish there was a more systematic way to handle remote errors in hpss07:54
spivMe too...08:01
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lifelessI can't wait for packs to be in mainline08:18
lifelesspushing to knits is painful :(08:19
lifeless(its annotating every changed file)08:19
lifelesspoolie: on error codes08:28
lifelessthings like pull use exceptions to signal 'can't pull'08:28
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lifelessbut '3' as the return value seems a little weird to me08:29
lifelessyo i38608:29
i386hey lifeless08:29
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i386I thought id come and idle here :)08:29
lifelessgreat idea08:29
poolielifeless, i think pull should return 108:30
i386Id like to think so :)08:30
poolieyou understand that i didn't change that behavior with my recent patch?08:30
lifelesspoolie: I know, it just got me thinking08:30
i386lifeless: perhaps I can offer some of my time at some point08:30
lifelesspoolie: that perhaps exceptions that are not internal should have a .errno attribute08:30
pooliemaybe errors should have an attribute to say their08:31
lifelessi386: even better idea :)08:31
i386Im writing that allocator, btw08:31
i386lifeless: have you heard of Hoard ?08:36
i386Its a really advanced memory allocator08:36
i386Im thinking of writing a obmalloc.c that uses it08:37
i386and doing some more profiling if my current reasoning is correct08:37
lifelessdid you establish that allocation time was the root cause?08:37
i386not yet08:37
lifelessor is it still speculative?08:37
i386yes, speculative - but ill have that answer in the next few days08:37
i386Im reading a lot of material at the moment to counter my lack of a Computer Science degree08:38
i386for this particular problem08:38
lifelesshmm, I wouldn't expect a CS degree to necessarily help08:38
lifelessthis domain is a little specialised08:38
lifelessas well as being NPC IIRC08:39
i386 NPC?08:39
lifelessnon polynomial complete08:39
lifelessIIRC memory allocation has been shown to be equivalent to the knapsack problem08:40
lifelesstime to test commit again08:41
lifelessnow I've just done mass merges08:41
=== lifeless bets it will have backslid
i386lifeless: can I get the url for your experimental branch ?08:41
lifelessof course08:41
lifelessit, and details for how to dogfood, are all on the list08:41
=== i386 nods
lifelessif you goolge for robertc packs repository dogfood08:42
lifelessyou'll get the first post08:42
lifelessuhm, look for [PACKS]  in the message listing, last one was late last week08:43
lifelesspoolie: I'm gagging for reviews now08:44
lifelesshmmm, 1m2808:46
lifelessnot too bad08:46
lifelesstwice the speed of knits :)08:46
lifelessinitial commit:08:47
lifelessreal    3m49.358s08:47
lifelessuser    1m28.650s08:47
lifelesssys     0m5.840s08:47
lifelessreal    0m25.878s08:48
lifelessuser    0m23.797s08:48
lifelesssys     0m1.372s08:48
lifelesspartial incremental:08:48
lifelessreal    0m26.801s08:48
lifelessuser    0m19.969s08:48
lifelesssys     0m0.768s08:48
spivi386: a lot of effort has gone into the design and implementation of the CPython memory allocator.08:49
lifelessspiv: I mentioned this :)08:49
spivi386: so I will be pleasantly surprised if you can do better :)08:50
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i386spiv: im probably completely wrong but leave learning something out of the ordeal08:57
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lifelessnight all09:12
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ubotuNew bug: #148443 in bzr "progress bar for loading tests" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14844310:11
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=== Starting logfile irclogs/bzr.log
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=== Topic for #bzr: The Bazaar Version Control System | http://bazaar-vcs.org/ | Bazaar 0.91 is out - http://bazaar-vcs.org/Download | Please complete the Bazaar User Survey - http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=L94RvLswhKdktrxiHWiX3g_3d_3d
=== Topic (#bzr): set by poolie at Wed Sep 26 07:07:44 2007
lifelesspoolie: latest packs pushing now10:44
lifelessi386: ^10:44
lifelessrevno 278810:44
i386_hey lifeless10:45
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ubotuNew bug: #148463 in bzr "structured way to remote exceptions" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14846310:56
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i386_lifeless: what software do you use for bazaar-vcs.org ?11:44
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AnMasteri386_, hm I wonder that too12:38
AnMastervery nice wiki they have there12:39
elmoit's moin12:39
AnMasterhm looking at http://bazaar-vcs.org/RecentChanges it seems to be moin12:39
AnMasterah elmo beat me to it12:40
=== AnMaster prefers trac himself
AnMasteror mediawiki, for larger projects12:41
i386_AnMaster: 's/mediawiki/Atlassian Confluence/'12:44
fullermdMediawhati?  Trunk?  Are those new versions of vi?   :p12:45
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AnMasteri386_, link?01:00
AnMaster<fullermd> Mediawhati?  Trunk?  Are those new versions of vi?   :p <-- why? I use emacs myself :P01:01
hsn_i think Eclipse is new version of gViM01:01
i386_AnMaster: http://www.atlassian.com/software/confluence01:01
i386_AnMaster: we give free licenses of our products to open source projects01:01
i386_because we love you guys01:01
AnMasternot open source though01:01
fullermdAnMaster: Well, I only have a gig and a quarter of RAM, so I can't use emacs...01:02
i386_no but liberally licensed though01:02
AnMasterif not OSI approved license, forget it ;P01:02
i386_you buy a license and you get the source :)01:02
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AnMasteri386_, only non free software on my computer would be bios and nvidia drivers01:02
AnMaster(anyway this seems to be getting off topic)01:03
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KeybukI have a random question01:03
AnMasterwell ask it then?01:03
fullermdI have a random answer   :)01:03
Keybukwhy is it that when I bzr branch with an sftp:// URL, I get a .bzr/branch/parent01:03
jelmerhey Scott01:03
Keybukbut when I bzr branch with an http:// URL, I get a .bzr/branch/branch.conf ?01:04
jelmerKeybuk: same branch?01:04
fullermdBecause the branch you're branching over sftp is a branch5, and the branch over http is a branch6.01:04
jelmerKeybuk: it may be different between formats, but it should not be different per transport01:04
AnMasterum? what is branch5/6? is this related to formats lke01:05
AnMasterlike* dirstate?01:05
fullermd'dirstate' (and 'knit') use branch5.  dirstate-tags uses branch6.01:05
AnMasterso then I use branch601:05
=== fullermd stabbies rollup names.
AnMastergood to know01:05
AnMasterfullermd, btw, is there any way to see tags in trac-bzr?01:05
AnMasterhaven't found a way01:06
Keybukit makes a difference, because it means that branch6 branches remember where you push them to01:06
fullermdNo idea.  I've never used trac, bzr or otherwise.01:06
Keybukwhereas branch5 branches don't01:06
fullermdNo, branch5 branches remember.01:06
fullermdThey just pollute locations.conf with it, instead of storing it in-branch.01:06
Keybuk(instead ~/.bazaar/locations.conf remembers for you, so if you move the directory, it forgets)01:06
AnMasterfullermd, how does this work with shared repos, like if you run bzr upgrade --dirstate-tags in one branch in a shared repo01:06
AnMasterwhat will happen then?01:06
fullermdAnMaster: Shared repos only share the repo format.  The branch and WT formats can differ inside it all you want.01:07
i386_fucking LOL01:07
fullermdWorking Tree.01:07
i386_This guy just posted anon his penis on /b/ except his name was in the exif data - so I tracked him down on face book01:07
i386_and now /b/ is a whole lot less boring01:07
AnMasteri386_, *slightly* off topic here I feel01:08
i386_wrong chan01:08
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AnMasterwell, I have posted in wrong channels before (asking bzr questions in #trac by mistake for example) but nothing like that, (I'm not on channels like that)01:09
i386_4chan is a message board for anime01:10
gabe_nah don't worry not the wrong channel01:10
i386_and japanese culture01:10
gabe_i need some distraction from work01:10
fullermdRight.  The rest of us have standards instead   ;>01:10
i386_Anonymous are going to lynch this guy01:10
gabe_although looking at 4inchers wasn't what i had in mind01:10
gabe_infact i feel a bit queasy now :(01:11
i386_err sorry everyone01:12
gabe_np, you got any intellectually stimulating websites to redeem yourself with? :P something like benchmarks of UFS2 vs XFS or Ext401:15
i386_found this neat website on garbage collection and memory management01:16
gabe_ok that's a good start :)01:17
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gabe_although not so much use for me as Ruby does all that for me01:17
jelmerphanatic: btw, did you see my message about vizchanges?01:28
GaryvdMHi jelmer01:31
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GaryvdMI just busy replying to it :-)01:31
jelmerhi Gary01:31
jelmerGaryvdM: thanks!01:32
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sakkeWhen I try to connect to a server i get the following error: Exception: Error reading SSH protocol banner(10054, 'Connection reset by peer')01:45
sakkeTraceback (most recent call last):01:45
sakke  File "paramiko\transport.pyc", line 1448, in run01:45
sakke  File "paramiko\transport.pyc", line 1564, in _check_banner01:45
sakkeSSHException: Error reading SSH protocol banner(10054, 'Connection reset by peer01:45
sakkeWhat's the problem?01:45
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AnMastersakke, can you ssh in normally?02:02
AnMasteralso try sftping some file by hand02:02
AnMasterif both of those work check the path you used to the server, right port and so on02:03
AnMasterin case of typos02:03
AnMastersakke, any luck?02:07
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JackPhilit complains the pyrex not installed02:44
JackPhilis it ok?02:44
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luksJackPhil, yes, it will still work fine, but a bit slower02:46
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fullermdIt won't be slower if you're running from a release tarball; only from a dev branch.03:09
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AfCIs that local-area-ad-hoc-network branch-sharing thing that lifeless was working on published and usable?03:34
=== AfC is going to a hackfest this weekend and maybe could use it
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LeoNerdHmm.... I have a branch that's up to date, with respect to revisions, but is missing a tag compared to the server...06:48
LeoNerdIs there some way I can force a resync of the tags?06:48
luksbzr pull?06:50
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LeoNerdHrm... That seems to have fixed it... Wonder why it didn't before...07:01
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piedoggieI think my bze repository lost touch with the launch pad repository.  this latest check in flagged in more files than it should have09:56
piedoggiehow can I reconnect the two?09:56
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thumperpiedoggie: I don't quite understand your problem, would you care to explain a bit more?10:25
piedoggieit is weird.  I buit a repository in launchpad10:28
piedoggieand thought I uploaded files to it10:28
piedoggiebut is is empty10:28
piedoggieso it make sense that my local copy only stored updates local10:29
piedoggieI'll deal with it later.. I have a fire here that comes first10:30
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james_wput_bytes_non_atomic says "This function is not strictly safe to use. See Transport.put_bytes_non_atomic for more information."11:01
james_wThis is Transport.put_bytes_non_atomic. Can anyone tell me why it is not safe?11:02
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ubotuNew bug: #148728 in bzr "Bzr gives ugly error error message on bzr+ssh:// timeout" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14872811:25
BasicOSXDoes bzr do the right thing with spaces in the directory name when over-riding the things in your ~/.bazaar/locations.conf? I tried both spaces and %20 (for the spaces) and I cannot get the overrides to work.11:26
james_wBasicOSX: I'm not sure I'm afraid.11:26
BasicOSX[/Applications/World of Warcraft/Interface/AddOns/]  vs [/Applications/World%20of%20Warcraft/Interface/AddOns/] 11:27
james_wbzr uses ConfigObj to that parsing, so you could check that.11:27
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wingo-pbgood day!11:28
wingo-pbcan bzr do in-place branching?11:28
james_wBasicOSX: it looks like configobj should pick it up ok.11:29
james_wwingo-pb: what do you mean?11:29
BasicOSXwith space or encoded?11:29
wingo-pbjames_w: like i see with git and `git branch'; it seems useful rather than having repo parent dir and lots of branch checkouts11:30
=== wingo-pb looking at his ~/src/foo/trunk dirs, thinking that the step "trunk" can probably be omitted somehow
james_wwingo-pb: no it can't.11:31
ubotuNew bug: #148731 in bzr "Bzr gives ugly error error message when server requires non-existant ssh keys " [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14873111:31
ubotuNew bug: #148737 in bzr "Bzr needs a more decriptive error message when product does not exist on launchpad" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14873711:31
james_whowever using bzrtools' switch command you can approximate it.11:31
james_wor maybe cbranch. Or both, I can't remember.11:31
james_wBasicOSX: are you on Windows?11:32
BasicOSXno, OSX11:32
BasicOSXrecently moved to osx, so I'm struggling :-)11:33
james_wBasicOSX: should have guessed from the name :)11:34
james_wit looks like spaces should be used.11:34
wingo-pbjames_w: thanks for the info tho11:35
wingo-pbis there a place that bzr devs look at for feature requests? ;-)11:35
james_wwingo-pb: launchpad, or the mailing list for discussions.11:35
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james_wwingo-pb: though proposing git style branching won't get very far.11:36
wingo-pbjames_w: ah, there has been previous discussion in this regard? i occaisionally read the mailing list but must have missed that. anyway sorry to bother you :)11:39
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salty-horsehi. when running "bzr log|less" and quitting less before the command is done, I get a "IOError: [Errno 32]  Broken pipe" error on flush(). this is quite common in application, but it's especially annoying when ubuntu wants to report the crash. A fix was committed to win32, but I'm on Linux. see http://bundlebuggy.aaronbentley.com/request/%3Ces4ihj%24dcf%241%40sea.gmane.org%3E11:42
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