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nixternalRiddell: yes, I am going to eat really quick and then I will rock it out12:58
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nixternalRiddell: posted that article, sitting in the queue02:01
=== Jucato waves at nixternal
=== Jucato wonders what article that was
jjessemorning Jucato02:02
Jucatooooh hi jjesse! good evneing! :)02:02
Jucatough! can't spell :P02:02
jjesseso how are things today/tonight?02:12
jjesseto early for the sun?02:13
Jucatonope. storm brewing02:13
jjesseoh fun i like storms02:13
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Jucatowould be if it didn't mean power interruptions or strong lightning that could potentially fry the computer :/02:14
jjesseyeah frying the computer would suck02:15
Jucatofrying my *only* computer would suck like vista :(02:15
=== nixternal waves back
nixternalgotta watch some tv...back in a bit02:21
nixternalwe are getting ready to get storms here too02:21
jjessesounds like fun02:24
jjessenice and warm and dry in columbus ohio02:24
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bobbobbobhas anyone seen this site05:10
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DaSkreechJucato: Can I get a courtesy ban?05:11
stdinbobbobbob ?05:12
stdin(that wan't even copy and paste :)05:12
=== Jucato reminds people that he's a very limited op
stdins/limited/feeble/ :p05:13
Jucatothat to05:13
nixternalahh, he is a gentotard05:13
nixternalor sabayon at that05:13
nixternalhrmm, I don't even have oppage here :(05:13
Jucatoor anywhere at all, except #kubuntu05:13
nixternalya, I just have the main chans as well05:14
Jucatoat least you have other channels :)05:14
stdinheh, only 6 people have super cow powers in here05:14
Jucatowhich is fine.. I don't go there at all05:14
DaSkreech haha i thought this was #kubuntu My bad05:14
stdinDaSkreech: even #kubuntu isn't this quiet (mostly)05:14
DaSkreechYeah I was amazed at the audaciy of a spammer to take advantage of a lull in #kubuntu05:16
Jucatoso far he hasn't committed anything criminal in #k yet.05:16
=== mode/#kubuntu-devel [+o Hobbsee] by ChanServ
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=== Hobbsee muhahahahaha
Jucatoer.. viKtory!05:38
ScottKWell until he types ipconfig /renew all and gets a new IP address from his ISP.05:40
HobbseeScottK: chuga chuga chuga chuga....CHOO CHOO!!!!!05:40
Hobbseethat's easy to fix.05:41
ScottKI'm actually quite suprised that banning by IP works as well as it does.05:41
HobbseeJucato: poke nalioth when he tries again05:49
Jucatookie dokie05:49
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=== Hobbsee pokes people
=== Jucato pukes...
Hobbseehas anyone done some ugprade testing yet?07:30
JucatoI did... once.. took 24 hours :)07:30
Jucatodid that over the weekend07:30
Jucatocrashed on gs-esp... had to continue through apt-get with --install-recommends of course07:30
Jucatofor some reason, it held back digikam. I removed it, then reinstalled kubuntu-desktop, and all was well again07:31
=== Hobbsee ssh's into someone else's machine, with a local mirror, creates a chroot, and tries an upgrade
Jucatobut that was saturday...07:32
JucatoI might try again on a fresh feisty install tomorrow or some time I'm not too busy goofing around :)07:33
Hobbseebah.  cant yet07:33
Hobbseecant upgrade off his07:33
Hobbseeit seems that we release in ~15 days07:35
Hobbseewhich is really quite scary07:35
Jucatowe haven't even decided over strigi yet07:36
Jucatoyeah scary...07:36
Hobbseewe need to call a meeting.07:36
Hobbseeand we need to poke manchicken on adept07:36
Jucatotbh, all of Ubuntu's popularity is kinda causing us to be put under a microscope a lot lately...07:37
Hobbseeyeah, people keep saying "kubuntu needs to do x, y, and z"07:37
Jucatoand with PC-BSD, openSUSE, and Mandriva all released within weeks/days of each other...07:37
Hobbseei'd like to try opensuse, actually07:38
Hobbseealthough their installs are a pain07:38
Jucatome too... let's see if they finally deliver what they promised regarding package management07:38
Jucatoand luckily this time I don't have to download 3 CD's/1 DVD :)07:38
Jucatothere's a KDE-only 1 CD yay!07:38
Hobbseeyeah, it'd be interesting to see smart07:39
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Hobbseebut i've got this sneaking suspicion that a lot will move to the new suse, if htey have07:39
Jucatooh haven't seen that yet. but smart has always been there since 10.0...07:39
Hobbseeand heck, why not?  if our current offerings are like this...07:39
Jucatonah... the MS shadow still looms over openSUSE...07:39
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Jucatoour (kubuntu's) current offerings?07:40
Hobbseewith the bugs and such07:41
Hobbseeand how late our stuff is, compared to ubuntu07:41
Jucatohm.. I have a sort of an idea.. but being not so technically knowledgeable, I don't know how feasible it really is...07:41
Jucatosince 8.04 will be an LTS, why don't we focus our next release on less new features and more fixing and stabilizing07:42
Hobbseebecause as long as we're a community distro, as we are now (bar one paid person, and kees helping with security)...we're screwed in terms of people07:42
Jucatofor example, stabilizing our upgrades from one release to another07:42
Hobbseewell, we'll grab 3.5.8, perhaps for gutsy, but likely for hardy.07:42
Hobbseethe bug problem is that it should all go upstream, but upstream arent tending to look at kde 3 bugs - especially when kde4 will be out.07:42
JucatoI mean each new release, we always have problems with upgrades...07:43
Jucatowell sans the upstream bugs...07:43
Hobbseesans the upstream bugs, and tehre arent much left07:43
Jucatohm. ok point taken :)07:43
Hobbseealso, hardy+1 we'll use kde4 by default, so will ditch all our patches - which contain the majority of our bugs.07:43
Jucatoprobably my main beef is the upgrade path... I honestly prefer new installs over upgrading....07:44
Hobbseeyeah, it would be good to fix that07:44
Hobbseeit's partly a testing problem07:44
Jucatoand a place/channel to field these kinds of tests.. is #kubuntu-testers still open? at least the channel?07:44
Hobbseei'm unsure if we tend to properly test upgrades at all - i know i didnt do the feisty ones07:45
Hobbseeyes, it's open, and vaguely alive07:45
Jucatocoz I'm not sure where to send questions about upgrading to #ubuntu+1 from #kubuntu users07:45
Hobbseewell, first, i want to do a few upgrades here to check we dont still have file overwrites07:45
JucatoI mean, they are for #ubuntu+1, but how many Kubuntu-specific questions are answered there?07:45
Hobbseewhich i suspect we do07:45
Hobbseeoh, a fair few07:45
Jucatooh yeah, there was also a problem with upgrading bluetooth and qobex had to be removed first before the upgrade can continue07:46
Hobbseei fixed that one :)07:46
Jucatogreat :)07:46
Hobbseebut bluetooth is still a mess07:46
=== Hobbsee watches everything from feisty unpack
Jucatosometimes it sucks to be a community project when you're being compared to a well-funded bigger brother :(07:46
Hobbseeapparently the debian lot works, but they take our stuff, and rename it07:47
Hobbseeoh indeed - especially when they say that it's not the same.07:47
Jucatosometimes I'm beginning to think that some of the suggestions are right... that we somehow need to get out of Ubuntu's shadow more... :(07:47
Jucatobut that's hardly possible/feasible07:47
Hobbseewe're tied to soyuz, and we're tied to canonical via Riddell.07:48
Hobbseebut our marketing could do with some help07:48
Hobbseebut we need to actually have the stuff there to market07:48
Jucatoand people to do the marketing :(07:48
Hobbseethat too07:49
Hobbseestill, there's an open week coming soonish.07:49
Jucatoah I just remembered a question you had for coreymon before. and I thought I have an ida07:49
Hobbseeso for those on the other side of the world, it'll be a good idea to attract some people in07:49
Jucatohaha too many ideas today :P07:49
Jucatoyou asked him what we could do to improve #kubuntu support right?07:50
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Jucatomy answer is ironically to not focus too much on #kubuntu :)07:50
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Hobbseeand say that anything non-de specific is in #ubuntu?07:50
Jucatobut see that our other help resources are also well kept07:50
Hobbseewe could poitn people to #kde, i guess07:50
Hobbseepeople dont read, though.07:51
Jucatowell, not just on IRC07:51
Jucatoyeah that's the point07:51
Hobbseeso, wiki cleanup, etc07:51
stdinthe wiki needs some "kdeifiing"07:51
Jucatoyou see, we do lack some knowledgeable people in IRC, because there are knowledgeable people in other venues too07:51
Jucatowe can't have them all here unfortunately07:51
Jucatoyeah the wiki is one07:52
JucatoI can't recall if ubuntuforums has a KDE tag for easier searching...07:52
stdini recall a kubuntuforums somewhere07:52
Jucatokubuntuforums is a good place too07:52
Jucatoyeah I frequent there more than UF07:53
Jucatoit's more representative of Kubuntu users than UF is obviously :)07:53
Hobbseei dont visit kf much, if at all07:54
Jucatodon't worry. I have it under my nose all the time07:54
Jucatoand I have some special plans for it soon...07:54
Jucatoit has less traffic than UF... which could be a good thing in some ways :)07:54
stdinI don't tend to visit forums much any more, I sometimes have a look through LQ.org, but that's about it07:55
Jucatoheh you should have met be before I became an IRC-maniac..07:55
=== Hobbsee invents mean and nasty hacks to make k-d install in a chroot.
JucatoI spent my day practically hitting the reload button :)07:55
stdinheh, I remember doing that07:55
Jucatofor months? :)07:55
stdinmy f5 key was wearing out07:56
Hobbsee655 upgraded, 91 newly installed, 4 to remove and 1 not upgraded.07:56
HobbseeNeed to get 511MB/523MB of archives.07:56
Jucatoubuntuforums was my first encounter with the community :)07:56
Jucatohaha have fun!07:56
JucatoI had about 1000+ iirc07:56
Hobbseeah yes, digikam is kept back07:56
Hobbseethis is just k-d and dependancies upgrading07:57
Jucatooh speaking of k-d... I have a question...07:57
Jucatobut it depends on apt-get install's default behavior07:57
Jucatoafaik, apt-get doesn't install recommends, only aptitude does07:57
Jucatoso will our previous "install kubuntu-desktop" over Ubuntu not work properly anymore?07:58
Hobbseek-d is in section: metapackages, so behaves like aptitude in that instance.07:58
Jucatowe usually tell that to users, even in the factoid..07:58
Jucatoah ok07:58
HobbseeFetched 511MB in 60s (8510kB/s)07:59
Jucatobut dist-upgrade must explicitly be told to --install-recommends right?07:59
Hobbseeit doesnt seem so07:59
Hobbseeor at least, this isnt.07:59
Jucatohm... it's fixed?07:59
Hobbseecheck the changelog07:59
Jucatobecause if you remember, we've had people saying stuff like strigi wasn't installed during the upgrade08:00
Hobbseeoh wait, it may require it08:00
Jucatoand they use dist-upgrade08:00
Hobbseehm.  will see.08:00
Jucatohm.. ok... :)08:00
Hobbseeif we need to, we'll add to the doco that you have to use --install-recommends08:00
JucatoI'm just confused/worried/anxious about this new setup so pardon my ignorance :)08:01
Hobbseeif only the setup was as fast as the download..08:01
Jucatoif only the download was as fast as the setup on my end :P08:01
Hobbseei'd like to see a great section of adept fixed for hardy, too08:02
Hobbseebecause we'll use that beyond hardy08:02
Hobbseeyeah, well.  why do you think i'm ssh'd into a connection that has a local mirror?  :)08:03
Jucatoheheh :)08:03
Jucatoso I think hardy is a perfect opportunity for us to have a solid base... although it doesn't help if Ubuntu keeps on making new features and we have to play catch up08:04
Hobbseetrue - but it seems they're getting smarter in terms of writing bases and frontends08:04
Jucatowe just need to sync development... but we don't have the manpower :(08:04
Jucatofor example, some users are asking about the X config thingy and the automatic printer config thingy08:05
Hobbseeyes, i wish the auto printer config thingy would be here08:05
Hobbseefor our next release, we should suggest pepole do them for kde408:05
Hobbseereally, i'm unsure why the printing stuff isnt upstream.08:05
Jucatobtw, what really is bulletproof X? is that the config thiny or something in X itself?08:06
Hobbseeoh, we cant have bulletproof X08:06
Jucatoprinting for KDE 4 barely exists right now :)08:06
Hobbseeit's basically to make sure that x has a failsafe mode, and works, so that people dont have to edit their xorg.conf08:06
Jucatoso we can't have that?08:06
Hobbseeno, there's something missing in kwin08:07
Jucatooh well...08:11
=== Jucato crosses his fingers and hopes for the best
Hobbseenixternal: you around yet?08:11
Jucatosound asleep I guess08:12
HobbseeErrors were encountered while processing:08:13
Hobbsee /var/cache/apt/archives/guidance-backends_0.8.0svn20070928-0ubuntu2_i386.deb08:13
Hobbsee /var/cache/apt/archives/kaddressbook_4%3a3.5.7enterprise20070907-0ubuntu3_i386.deb08:13
Hobbsee /var/cache/apt/archives/karm_4%3a3.5.7enterprise20070907-0ubuntu3_i386.deb08:13
Hobbsee /var/cache/apt/archives/kmail_4%3a3.5.7enterprise20070907-0ubuntu3_i386.deb08:13
Hobbsee /var/cache/apt/archives/knotes_4%3a3.5.7enterprise20070907-0ubuntu3_i386.deb08:13
Hobbsee /var/cache/apt/archives/korganizer_4%3a3.5.7enterprise20070907-0ubuntu3_i386.deb08:13
HobbseeJucato: there was something i wanted nixternal for.08:16
Hobbseei just dont remember what.08:16
Jucatohehe :)08:16
HobbseeJucato: what are your thoughts on ditching the current buglot from our brains for hardy?08:16
Jucatoeveryone wants nixternal nowadays...08:16
Hobbseeas in, anything that gets pushed thru a sru is good, but we're otherwise ignoring them all08:16
Hobbseethen we'll eol for hardy+5, or whatever it is.08:16
Hobbseekde was talking about it - i suspect they'll want things rereported08:17
Jucatohm... my thoughts for now revolve around adept and system settings... at least clearing out that lot would be good I guess08:17
Jucatounfortunately, we're very shorthanded on Adept...08:17
Hobbseeit'll need a rewrite - parts, or all of it.08:18
Jucatoit's becoming a PITA to maintain isn't it?08:18
Hobbseemanchicken: was talking about it08:18
Hobbseeyeah - although i think that libept may also be a pain08:18
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Jucatowe're practically the ones maintaining it... and upstream doesn't seem to be applying our fixes...08:18
Hobbseeapt also has some real FUBAR's in it too08:18
Hobbseei'm unsure if mornfall is even around anymore08:18
Hobbseelast i recall, he was saying "screw debian, i'll make this work on rpm stuff"08:19
Jucatowhich is kinda weird why he started on a Debian PM  in the first place...08:19
Jucatowasn't he partly employed by RH?08:19
HobbseeSetting up cups-pdf (2.4.6-3ubuntu7) ...08:19
HobbseePassword for root on localhost?08:19
Hobbseequite possible08:19
Jucatoheh :)08:19
HobbseeSetting up cups-pdf (2.4.6-3ubuntu7) ...08:20
HobbseePassword for root on localhost?08:20
HobbseePassword for root on localhost?08:20
Hobbseelpadmin: Unauthorized08:20
Hobbseedpkg: error processing cups-pdf (--configure):08:20
Hobbsee subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 108:20
Hobbseeoh well08:20
Hobbseeafaik, there is no root pass in a chroot.08:20
Jucatoheh... I'm scared of chroot08:21
Jucatoit was the cause of losing my /home08:21
Jucatowell, that and PEBKAC :)08:21
HobbseeSetting up kdm (4:3.5.7-1ubuntu26) ...08:22
HobbseeInstalling new version of config file /etc/init.d/kdm ...08:22
HobbseeConfiguration file `/etc/kde3/kdm/backgroundrc'08:22
Hobbsee ==> Modified (by you or by a script) since installation.08:22
Hobbsee ==> Package distributor has shipped an updated version.08:22
Hobbsee   What would you like to do about it ?  Your options are:08:22
Hobbsee    Y or I  : install the package maintainer's version08:22
Hobbsee    N or O  : keep your currently-installed version08:22
Hobbsee      D     : show the differences between the versions08:22
Hobbsee      Z     : background this process to examine the situation08:22
Hobbsee The default action is to keep your current version.08:22
Hobbsee*** backgroundrc (Y/I/N/O/D/Z) [default=N]  ?08:22
Hobbseewe should fix that too.08:23
Hobbseesame with Configuration file `/etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc'08:23
Jucatowhat's wrong?08:23
Jucatoyeah heheh08:23
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=== Hobbsee giggles at -devel
Jucatogah! I just lost my train of thought!08:24
Jucatooh yeah now I remember...I wonder how your system will behave once it gets to that PAM upgrade part, where you'll be asked which services to restart...08:25
Jucatoand kdm is one of those (and let's say you forgot to remove kdm from the list)08:25
Jucatoheh ok time to get busy w/ work...08:26
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stdinI wish I could build amarok2 :(08:30
Hobbseewhy cant you?08:33
HobbseeJucato: havent got to that yet08:33
Hobbseebut it should silently want to restart, i hope08:33
stdinHobbsee: some cmake error http://www.stdin.me.uk/build.log08:33
stdinI don't know cmake well enough to attempt to fix it08:34
=== Hobbsee knows very little of cmake
Hobbseeuh, digikam?  whya re you a special snowflake?08:37
Hobbseeroot@liquified:/# apt-cache rdepends libexiv2-0.1208:40
HobbseeReverse Depends:08:40
Hobbsee  digikam08:40
Hobbsee  libkexiv2-008:40
Hobbsee  digikam08:40
Hobbseeoh, i see.08:43
Hobbseeright, can fix both libexiv and libkexiv08:52
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Jucatoyay! :)08:52
Jucatoer.. I shouldn't be here :)08:53
Hobbseeneither should i.08:53
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_StefanS_Tonio_: hey10:14
Tonio__StefanS_: yo !!10:14
_StefanS_Tonio_: a bugfixed version of knm applet is coming out this thursday, can you package it ?10:15
_StefanS_Tonio_: there's that list of bugfixes that would be cool to have in gutsy (WPA/EAP stuff)10:15
Hobbseeheya Tonio_10:15
_StefanS_Tonio_: I've made some progress on the kdmtheme, and I know how to fix it, whats the deadline for having it in gutsy?10:17
Hobbsee_StefanS_: bug fixes, or new features?10:18
Hobbsee_StefanS_: also, upgrading yakauake is something we should do10:18
Tonio__StefanS_: sure I will10:18
_StefanS_Hobbsee: bugfixes for knm, yes.10:18
Tonio__StefanS_: deadline for kdmtheme is -> ASAP10:19
Tonio__StefanS_: not to say ASATFP10:19
_StefanS_thats what I figured, I'm sorry I haven't had so much time lately10:19
_StefanS_I will do my best10:19
Tonio_Hobbsee: what's new in the latest yakuake ?10:19
_StefanS_Tonio_: look on kde-look.org, it was just released yesterdya10:19
Tonio__StefanS_: do what you can, nobody will blame you not to get it done :)10:19
Tonio__StefanS_: I will10:19
_StefanS_I will try.10:19
_StefanS_Tonio_: http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Yakuake?content=2915310:20
_StefanS_Tonio_: it was on apps.10:20
Tonio_Hobbsee: that'll break the feature freeze for sure :(10:20
_StefanS_Hobbsee: its a feature release10:20
HobbseeTonio_: when i spoke to sho, it didnt have that many features.10:21
Tonio_Hobbsee: is sho the developper ?10:21
HobbseeTonio_: yes10:21
HobbseeTonio_: (the lead dev)10:21
Tonio_Hobbsee: let's forget about providing an rc file then :/10:21
Tonio_Hobbsee: btw I looked, I don't know why the changes have been reverted on konversation, but honnestly I don't mind, the current rc file is good10:21
Tonio_Hobbsee: I'll go explain the reason of our choices to sho10:22
Tonio_Hobbsee: although I know he won't agree ;)10:22
HobbseeTonio_: heh10:22
HobbseeTonio_: i'm inclined to take yakuake - we've already got beta 110:22
Hobbseeof course, i can give the exception for it :)10:23
Hobbseeas can ScottK10:23
=== Jucato though nixternal already started packaging yakuake
=== Jucato briefly waves hello to everyone before going back to bed
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HobbseeJucato: ah, good to know10:24
Tonio_Hobbsee: so I can upload without any prompt (I have your exception) ?10:24
HobbseeTonio_: of yakuake?  yeah, that's fine10:25
Tonio_Jucato: okay so I'm stoping on the packaging now ? :)10:25
Jucatohehe you should confirm it with nixternal though... that's just iirc10:25
Jucatobtw... anyone figured out what's the commands file in $HOME is all about?10:25
Jucato(why are we having so many problems with $HOME? :P)10:26
ubotuLaunchpad bug 148446 in ubuntu "package kdm 4:3.5.7-1ubuntu26 failed to install/upgrade: read error on stdin at conffile prompt" [Undecided,New] 10:26
Hobbseelooks like we're hitting this again - adept's dying over it presumably10:26
=== Jucato bets someone in here was highlighted :0
=== Hobbsee sends it to adept
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=== Starting logfile irclogs/kubuntu-devel.log
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=== Topic for #kubuntu-devel: Welcome to #kubuntu-devel | 7.10 Beta out
=== Topic (#kubuntu-devel): set by Riddell at Thu Sep 27 15:13:38 2007
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Tonio_Jucato: just fyi, I just packaged yakuake for my needs, but the package is done10:44
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Tonio_Jucato: don't know what you did in it, or if it is started or not on your own, so let me know, since I eventually can upload the one here...10:44
Tonio_jcastro: I'm still here for the openweek, don't forget me :)10:58
HobbseeTonio_: what will you talk about for the open week?10:59
stdinthe Nvidia page on the wiki has been "kdeified" and it almost killed me :p11:00
=== Hobbsee ponders how hard she can hammer her connection.
Tonio_Hobbsee: dunno what to talk about yet, that's to be discussed :)11:03
Hobbseeawww, it'll only let me use 4 connections at a time.11:03
HobbseeTonio_: right.11:03
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tomahi all11:13
_StefanS_Tonio_: I think its incredible cool we have kdesudo.. I just tried opensuse 10.3 the other day, and had to keep punch in administrator password.11:14
Hobbseehi toma11:14
_StefanS_Tonio_: much more fluent when we remember the password for a few minutes11:14
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tomahi Hobbsee11:15
tomaHobbsee: familiar with the installer?11:15
Hobbseeubiquity?  from a dev POV?  no11:15
Hobbseefrom a user POV, yes, enough11:15
tomaHobbsee: my installation is stuck at downloading language files. Can I get it to skip that part for now and continue?11:16
tomaRiddell: maybe you know?11:18
Hobbseewhat do the VT's say?11:19
Hobbsee(they can be kinda big)11:19
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tomaHobbsee: no output there, other then the boot sequence on 811:20
Hobbseeidk, sorry11:21
tomahm /target looks pretty complete11:22
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tomaHobbsee: thnxs, rebooting11:34
RiddellTonio_: have you tested bluetooth recently?11:36
Riddelleveryone says it's broken11:36
hungerRiddell: kblueplugd has some code in front of #!/usr/bin/python line. Removing that junk fixes the BT for me.11:41
hungerThat an tweaking the config in /etc/default/bluetooth which is a bit strange out of the box IMHO. But that is not a kubuntu problem.11:42
hungere.g. enableing pand causes the init script to fail, etc.11:43
Tonio_Riddell: it is11:44
Tonio_Riddell: I planned to fix this on friday :)11:44
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_StefanS_Tonio_: the 30_kubuntu_default_settings contain exactly the same entries as the 20_ file, right?11:49
=== hunger is too stupid to set up strigi properly.
_StefanS_Tonio_: I mean, 30 is used if the user wants to change the default theme.11:50
hungerstrigidaemon keeps coredumping:-(11:50
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Tonio_Hobbsee: did you touch kblueplugd in your last upload ?11:53
Tonio_Hobbsee: the code was changed.......11:53
HobbseeTonio_: no, only debian/control and debian/changelog11:54
Hobbseethere's a bug about it though11:55
Tonio_Hobbsee: strange.......11:55
HobbseeTonio_: very.  the kblueplugd was changed with my upload?11:55
Tonio_Hobbsee: looks like I commited the issue :)11:56
Tonio_Hobbsee: I'll fix this right now11:56
Hobbseecool :)11:56
_StefanS_Tonio_: when entering kdmtheme the first time, should we check the "Enable KDM Themes" and preselect the kubuntu theme in the list ? I think it would be the most intuitive way.11:57
Tonio_yep we should indeed :)11:57
Riddellthat would be nice11:57
_StefanS_Riddell: and once a user wants to select something else, we write 30_kubuntu_default_settings.11:58
_StefanS_Tonio_:  ^11:58
Tonio__StefanS_: 30_kem_theme maybe no ? ;)11:59
_StefanS_Tonio_: ehm my file are called 20_kubuntu_default_settings, should it be named differently?11:59
_StefanS_Tonio_: oh only the numbers matter (?)11:59
Riddell_StefanS_: it should write to kdmrc12:01
Tonio_Riddell: uploading fixed kdebluetooth, the issue was mine, sorry for this12:01
Tonio_Riddell: hu ? well if writting to kdmrc, the settings will be overwritten by kdm.d values12:02
Tonio_Riddell: that's why the idea of fixing this by creating a file whose name overrides the 20_kubuntu_default_settings12:02
Tonio_Riddell: tested with a theme defined in a 30_... file, works perfectly12:03
Riddellthey won't be overridden12:03
Tonio__StefanS_: only the numer matters, yes as the settings are merged in the priority of the bggest number12:03
Riddell(unless you pick a theme called @@@ToBeReplacedByDesktopBase@@@)12:03
Tonio_Riddell: right, but changing the kdmrc would cause questions on update12:04
Tonio_people can get their settings removed12:04
_StefanS_so whats the decision ? ^12:04
Tonio_Riddell: why not making usage of kdm.d for this ? sounds cleaner, as then the kdmtheme created file will oversize the 20_kubuntu_default_settings one no ?12:04
Riddellwhy not use kdmrc, that's what it's for12:05
Riddellif people change a setting, they will want questions on upgrade so it doesn't get changed back12:06
Tonio_Riddell: sure, but someone answering "yes" on a distupgrade will get his settings removed12:06
Tonio_Riddell: then why didn't we simply patch kdmrc for kubuntu default-settings in it ? :)12:06
Riddell(and changing defaults/... could also require a question)12:06
Tonio_that's what it is for too right ? :)12:06
Tonio_Riddell: that's why the program will create a second kdm.d file12:06
Tonio_Riddell: no question at all in that case12:07
Riddellwe don't patch kdmrc so that people don't have questions asked when they /havn't/ made any settings changes12:07
Tonio_Riddell: with a second kdm.d file, no package provided file is touched -> no question for the user12:07
Tonio_well that's better imho, but I let you guys decide what the best is....12:07
_StefanS_adept doesn't handle the questions anyway, does it?12:07
Tonio__StefanS_: it does, but some people might not even know what is changed or what kdmrc file is for, that's my concern12:08
_StefanS_I think if you have a setting, it should just stick.12:08
_StefanS_regardless of updates12:08
Tonio_yep but dpkg doesn't work that way12:09
_StefanS_If I use my own kdm theme, i couldn't care less for the default being upgraded.12:09
_StefanS_or kdm for that matter.12:09
_StefanS_+1 for kdm.d12:09
Tonio__StefanS_: and since the setting can't be in the user profile, there is no other way to override it than a kdm.d file12:09
Riddell_StefanS_: the dist upgrade tool will ask12:11
Riddell_StefanS_: it will just stick, unless there's a change in the default kdmrc12:11
Tonio_Riddell: it'll say that the file is changed, nothing else, and what to do12:11
Tonio_Riddell: my mother wouldn't understand that the theme for kdm is in this file, and wouldn't understand why it has been replaced by the default12:11
Tonio_Riddell: the kdm theme is a "personnal" setting for people like any other kde setting12:12
Tonio_Riddell: and they don't get overrided by any update12:12
Tonio__StefanS_: well you decide, both ways can be used, but as long as we have the kdm.d thing, and that this thing is more "dynamic", and allows silent upgrades, my opinion is to do that way12:14
Tonio__StefanS_: but do the way you prefer :)12:14
_StefanS_well I prefer the kdm.d since my code already works in this area.12:14
_StefanS_all I need now is 1) read the active configuration file, and preselect stuff in the gui, 2) write to 30_ if users wants a change12:16
_StefanS_thats it.12:16
Tonio__StefanS_: oki ;)12:19
Riddellsurely kdmtheme already works with kdmrc12:19
Riddellthe only change required is that if the theme is @@@ToBeReplacedByDesktopBase@@ it should be treated as Kubuntu12:21
_StefanS_Riddell: what if there's two kubuntu themes available?12:23
faboRiddell: jos confirmed strigi work with clucene 0.9.2012:23
_StefanS_Riddell: with and without userlist12:23
fabojust 0.9.17 was problematic12:24
faboRiddell: off-topic, i will upload kdmtheme 1.2 on Debian in a couple of minutes12:24
Tonio__StefanS_: you have to manually change the kdm.d file by hand12:25
Tonio__StefanS_: or set it in kdmrc file manually too12:25
_StefanS_not exactly a thing users would like I guess12:25
Riddell_StefanS_: that's only 1 default12:25
Tonio_Riddell: but kdmtheme strangelly doesn't work with kdmrc at the moment, that's why _StefanS_ was hacking on that one12:25
Riddellbest to find out the cause of the problem than just work around it12:27
Jucatoisn't the reason for kdmtheme not working is the override file?12:31
Tonio_Riddell: that's not a workarround, it is just making kdmtheme using a feature that we have in kubuntu (kdm.d) instead of a fixed kdmrc file12:33
RiddellJucato: shouldn't be12:33
Tonio_Riddell: not that one solution is better than the other, but that's probably not a workarround, unless you don't consider kdm.d mecanism a feature....12:33
=== Jucato leaves it to the pros....
JucatoRiddell: iirc, that was the error message when kdmtheme was launched. although I can't seem to get it to show up now12:34
Riddell/etc/default/kdm.d/ is a feature for the defaults, thus the directory name12:34
Jucatobut only in Debian right?12:34
Riddellonly what in Debian?12:34
_StefanS_Jucato: its not in the new 1.212:34
Jucatothe use of /etc/default/ directories12:34
_StefanS_Riddell: he's talking about that messagebox about debian using kdm.d12:34
Tonio_Riddell: right..... Well I'm just considering people that complained about their kdm settings lost after a dist-upgrade, even when they were using kdmtheme12:35
Tonio_Riddell: that happened sometimes in #kubuntu, and according to them, as they just configured this as any other part of kde, that's typically a bug12:35
Jucatoiirc the message was something like "changes done in kdmtheme will not take effect because of the overrride file"12:35
Tonio_of course, they should have known that kdmrc contains this settings, and should have read before allowing the file replacement during upgrades, but in the real worls, most people just won't do it12:36
Tonio_Riddell: that's my concern in fact ;)12:36
Jucatoanyway.. nvm :)12:36
Jucato_StefanS_: so the one we have now is 1.2 right? but does it work?12:36
Tonio_but now I'm ended fighting on that point, everyone has my feeling, I won't take any decision or insist more :)12:36
_StefanS_Jucato: yes we have 1.2, and its almost done.12:37
Jucato_StefanS_: okie dokie :)12:37
=== Jucato is clueless as always..
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stdinJucato: have you seen the "new" nvidia and ati pages?12:44
JucatoI'm sure you did an excellent job anyway :P12:45
stdinhave a look  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BinaryDriverHowto/Nvidia has a big change imo12:45
stdinopinions/commends to make me feel good, erm, I mean to tell me what you think12:46
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Jucatostdin: I'll check later. kinda busy right now. sorry12:48
stdinok, but I expect big praise :p12:50
Jucato <Jucato> I'm sure you did an excellent job anyway :P <--- not enough?12:54
stdinJucato: it's never enough, I want a medal ;)12:56
Jucatostdin: great job!01:11
Jucato(there? ok now?_01:11
stdinsee, that's all I wanted :D01:11
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mhbhi folks01:16
Jucatohi mhb! how was the vacation?01:17
mhbthe vacation was fine, but now I have to go to school ... booring :o)01:18
mhbwell, not really that much boring - I spent last three hours trying to authenticate into the universitys wifi network01:18
Jucatohehe that'd be fun01:19
mhbthey use WPA, hide their SSIDs, use TKIP as cyphering...01:19
mhband HOWTOs only for XP01:19
Jucatolovely :)01:20
=== Jucato <-- dinner... bbl :)
Jucatome is starving01:20
Jucatooops forgot the /01:20
mhbJucato: see you, I have to attend some more lectures01:20
manchickenHobbsee, Jucato, I saw you talking about me.  heh01:53
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Jucatohiya manchicken, nixternal!02:05
manchickennixternal: Looks like I'm gonna be working for a company in St. Louis02:05
=== Jucato looks up the word "work" in Google
Jucatonixternal: congrats on your 2nd post :)02:07
nixternalhehe, thanks02:09
nixternalmanchicken: are you moving there?02:09
manchickenNaw, telecommute.02:09
nixternaldoing what exactly?02:09
manchickenThe company I really thought would be great to work for, though, I'm expecting to make a bad offer.02:10
manchickenPerl, of course :)02:10
manchickenGod's gift to programming languages.02:10
nixternalI am glad you think so02:10
manchickenOr Larry Wall's acid trip.  Which ever you prefer.02:11
Jucatoit's a pearl :)02:11
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Jucatooooh jpatrick is here02:13
jpatrickit's as if I was special..02:13
nixternaljpatrick: you are special!02:15
jpatrickyeah, but... :)02:16
nixternalOK, that's it, I need a @kde.org :)  posting on the Dot with an Ubuntu address is going to upset people, or committing to SVN, or even being listed in the KDE developers entities files in kdelibs with an @ubuntu.com...people will start talking about our infiltration :p02:17
Riddelluse a @kubuntu address?02:18
nixternalTonio_: go ahead with your yakuake that you did02:18
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Riddellnixternal: you have to be pretty elite to get an @kde address02:18
nixternalI have been thinking about switching to the @kubuntu.org and then going through all of the mailing lists and fixing that02:18
nixternalRiddell: ya, I know, was joking a bit there :)02:19
nixternaltruthfully, one more address would be like another whole in my body...do I really need it? :D02:19
RiddellI try to keep to as few e-mail addresses as possible02:22
Riddellwhich is why I don't have a @kde one or use @kubuntu02:22
nixternalhah, I have looked at your GPG key, you have a ton just like I do :)02:22
Tonio_nixternal: oki02:23
nixternalis there a way to successfully scrub email addresses from a gpg key? I have tried, and scrub them locally, but when I upload them, they seem to never change02:23
Riddellnixternal: I've never managed02:24
nixternalseems to be a keyserver issue really, as you can remove them by editing your key02:25
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hungerAnyone using kitchensync with syncml around?03:06
Hobbseemanchicken: :)03:08
Hobbseenixternal: no, it doesnt seem so03:09
Hobbseenixternal: you can mark it as invalid, but not beyond that03:09
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Jucatooh krap fell into water!03:11
Jucatoer... wrong channel03:11
jpatrickhi Hobbsee03:14
jpatrickit lives..03:18
jpatrickJucato: it didn't want to last night :)03:18
jpatrickwhere should Katapult bugs go? Launchpad or KDE?03:37
Jucatogood question...03:38
Riddelldepends if it's our fault or "upstream"s03:39
jpatrickRiddell: for the about box I mean03:39
=== Jucato wonders on the process of bug reporting in Kubuntu
jpatrickI'll put kde03:40
Jucatofortunately in this matter, upstream is with us :)03:40
Jucatounless it changed in the past months...03:40
JucatoMez: you're still the maintainer of katapult?03:41
jpatrickJucato: I dunno, but I volunteered yesterday03:41
Jucatojpatrick: koolness :)03:41
Jucatohave you seen Katapult Fast Track?03:42
Jucatohaven't tried it out yet myself. but sounds interesting03:42
jpatrickI'm just trying to see what I can do03:43
Jucatogood luck with that. more power to you and katapult! :)03:43
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hungerYahoo! A OOo fork:-(03:53
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fdovinggreat, bug 134331 is back. or the issue rather.04:39
ubotuLaunchpad bug 134331 in gdebi "gdebi should search for .debs in current folder" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13433104:39
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fdovingmhb: around?04:43
fdovingmhb: see https://launchpad.net/bugs/134331 - is that a simple fix?04:43
ubotuLaunchpad bug 134331 in gdebi "gdebi should search for .debs in current folder" [Undecided,Confirmed] 04:43
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jpatrickRiddell: who has op rights on *-es?04:53
Hobbseejpatrick: some guy who keeps buggin gme about it04:54
Hobbsee[00:54]  [Notice]  -ChanServ-      Contact: TiMiDo, last seen: 1 day (14h 11m 7s) ago04:54
jpatrickHobbsee: really? haven't seen him for ages04:55
fdovinghmm.. kdebluetooth filetransfers does not seem to work.04:55
fdovingif they do, they are "#!%"#% slow.04:55
Hobbseejpatrick: he was bugging me again yesterday, so he's certainly here04:55
jpatrickHobbsee: not in the k-es site team, but then again, I haven't been round for ages meself :>04:56
jpatrickguess i'll just have to look out for him..05:00
nixternalRiddell: I made a typo on the Dot article about Marble... s/OpenStreeMap/OpenStreetMap if you could please05:04
Riddellnixternal: you should subscribe to the list05:12
nixternaloh, I thought I had to be subscribed :)  that is what I was waiting for :)05:13
nixternalerr, thought someone had to set my stuff up, thought it was "top-secret"05:14
Riddellnixternal: your subscription will need to be approved05:15
HobbseeRiddell: why do we have kubuntu-members and kubuntu beasties now?05:16
Riddellnixternal: did you get yakuake packaged?05:16
HobbseeRiddell: Tonio_ did05:16
Tonio_Riddell: already uploaded05:16
Riddellah, published two hours ago, excellent05:16
RiddellHobbsee: historical mostly05:17
HobbseeRiddell: it occured to me a couple of days ago that when the next nitwit decides to subscribe kubuntu-members to a bug, we all get spammed with it.05:17
Hobbsee(same with ubuntu-core-dev, etc, which gets done more often)05:18
DaSkreechnixternal: planning a gutsy upgrade today05:21
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JucatoI just noticed this now... all Google web shortcuts in Konqueror... use www.google.co.uk... hm.. fascinating05:49
DaSkreechmine use www.google.com.jm ... after redirection :)05:49
Jucatoat least it does here. check the Web Shortcuts05:49
DaSkreechI'm on Gnome right now05:49
JucatoI did say in Konqueror05:49
DaSkreechYeah I know05:50
RiddellJucato: you must be set to en_GB05:53
Riddellwhich is a bug, confusing language with geographical location05:53
Riddellit can easily be removed now google has local versions by default05:54
Jucatoso that automatically generates this in Konqueror Web Shortcats? http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=\{@}&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-805:54
Jucatokool! how smart can Konqueror be!?! :)05:55
=== Jucato goes play with it more :D
DaSkreechnot smart enough to compete with a dolphin05:56
=== DaSkreech ducks
Jucatohah! it Konquers dolphins!05:56
Jucatobah bed time..05:56
RiddellJucato: /usr/share/services/searchproviders/google.desktop is the issue05:57
Jucatooh wow05:58
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nixternalRiddell: would a title such as "I once was lost..." be acceptable for the dot? it reads professionally, the write up that is, and uses a catchy intro to get the story rolling?06:21
nixternalTitle: "I once was lost..."  Starting sentence: "...but now Blue-GNU is showing you the way with Kontact, in an article titled..."06:22
Riddellnixternal: not sure, give it a go and I'll see how it reads06:22
nixternalOK, I have added it to the queue06:23
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_StefanS_Tonio_: hey07:28
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DaSkreechAnyone done any recent upgrades to gutsy?07:46
DaSkreechlike yesterday :)07:46
Riddellnot I07:46
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DaSkreechHa ha07:57
DaSkreechFrom the Dot07:57
DaSkreechWhy cant the GUI world *also* focus on "power users"07:57
DaSkreechthat DO have better ways? I dont like any attitude that07:57
DaSkreechsays "we exist only for the stupid users" .... :(   PS: Just to make it clear I think KDE rocks.07:57
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Goliath23Riddell: someone else tested the ksplash-engine-moodin patch and it seems it is working08:06
Goliath23on a different note: can someone confirm, that digikam is broken in gutsy (it doesn't show any cameras while gphoto detects them nicely)08:06
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_StefanS_Goliath23: I encountered exactly that the other day with my ixus 950ti08:14
_StefanS_Goliath23: so thats a yes.08:14
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145239 in digikam "usb camera list does not show up anymore in digikam" [Undecided,New] 08:15
Goliath23this is the bug report, still undecided, new.08:15
_StefanS_wow, I guess it should be easy to fix08:15
Goliath23since digicam is a pretty prominent app, I think it should be fixed before gutsy is released.08:15
Goliath23probably a low hanging fruit, but I have no idea on how to fix and and I GUESS it might occur only on systems that upgraded from feisty to gutsy, like mine08:16
Goliath23or is yours a fresh install?08:16
_StefanS_upgraded from tribe 3 or something08:17
Goliath23but on the other hand... if gphoto runs fine and downloads photos (which it does) .. it seems to be a problem just related to digikam and no other package08:17
ScottKnixternal: Kubuntu-docs are being discussed in #launchpad.08:20
_StefanS_Goliath23: just compile it with nostrip and see what happens by re-running kdeinit in a terminal08:21
_StefanS_Goliath23: maybe its something obvious08:21
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Goliath23the author of digikam just said it's probably an outdated libgphoto208:29
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RiddellGoliath23: we have 2.4.0-2ubuntu108:31
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Goliath23I ask him08:32
Goliath23Riddell: was the digikam package compiled against that version08:34
alleeGoliath23: against 2.3.108:34
alleesee my note on #digikam08:34
Goliath23I'll try to rebuild it and check if the problem persists08:34
alleeGoliath23: thx08:34
Goliath23Riddell: what about bug #41407 ? will you include the patches?08:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 41407 in ksplash-engine-moodin "Kubuntu's Ksplash icons are too close to each other" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4140708:35
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RiddellGoliath23: yes, I'll look at it again tomorrow08:35
Goliath23cool, thnanks08:35
marseillaiis it still time to send debdiff to solve bug like this one : https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kxmame/+bug/113699 ??08:36
ubotuLaunchpad bug 113699 in kxmame "kxmame package wrongly conflicts with xmame-x" [Medium,Confirmed] 08:36
Goliath23how to install build-deps again?08:36
Goliath23ah build-dep :)08:36
Goliath23never mind :)08:36
Tonio_marseillai: send it to me, I'll upload tomorrow08:38
Goliath23Riddell, allee: recompiling fixes the digikam issue!08:50
Goliath23it seems to be compiled against the wrong libgphoto2 and digikam silently ignores that on startup08:50
Goliath23preventing the user from accessing any cameras..08:50
RiddellGoliath23: interesting08:51
alleeGoliath23: that awful.  libghoto2 claimed to that 2.4 is backward comaptible to 2.3 :(08:52
Riddellyes, it's slightly worrying08:52
RiddellI don't have a camera to test it on08:52
Riddellanyone able to confirm?08:52
alleeRiddell: bug report has afair 3 different people seeing the prob.08:53
Riddellwell, not much to lose by just thowing it up for a recompile I guess08:54
alleeGoliath23: I don't see the problem: I have a) browse media -> ... usb vendor specific   that opens my camera.  b) Add camera -> then autodetect finds the camera08:54
Riddellit's not something like installing gphoto -dev package helps it?08:55
alleeoh, if it's the old 'missing .la' problem?  Checking ...08:56
alleeRiddell: right.  digikam fails to load the libghoto2 plugins without the .la files :( :(09:00
alleedamn!  I thought that was fixed in kdelibs09:01
Riddellso we need to make digikam depend on libgphoto2-dev?09:02
alleeGoliath23: can you reinstall digikam from the ubuntu archive?  apt-get install --reinstall digikam;  apt-get --purge remove libgphoto2-dev   Bug shows up again?  apt-get install libgphoto2-dev;  Bug gone again?09:02
alleeRiddell: yes, or move the plugins .la files to libgphoto2-209:03
Riddelloh aye, that's a better idea09:03
alleeRiddell: debian maintainer refused to do it and blaimed it's kdelibs fault09:03
alleesomething wrong with ltst(sp?) of kdelibs)09:04
Goliath23allee: can do that, hold on, just need to finish putting an article up to ebay :)09:05
Riddellallee: I'm not sure why it would be dynamically loaded anyway, digikam is linked against libgphoto09:06
Riddellallee: is it only /usr/lib/libgphoto2.la that's needed, or the other .la files in -dev too?09:08
alleelast time all .la files in /usr/lib/libghoto2/2.4.0/09:12
alleeRiddell: you accept a debdiff that does move the .la files to libgphoto2-2?09:13
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Riddellallee: sure09:14
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alleeGoliath23: can you try the libgphoto2-dev stuff I've described above?  Then I can close the bug via the changelog09:15
Goliath23I will now09:16
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Goliath23allee: I don't have libgphoto2-dev installed09:19
Goliath23and I didn't install the newly built digikam, I started it from its source tree. which worked09:20
Goliath23BUT now that I started the newly built one, and then start the (re)installed digikam  from the repositories, that one works as well09:20
Goliath23allee: so I guess it was maybe on of the packages that installed with build-deps digikam?09:22
alleeGoliath23: yes,  try apt-get remove libgphoto2-2-dev  and check in the bug is back09:33
Goliath23allee: confirmed!09:35
Goliath23what are the absolute minimum requirements for a kubuntu installation?09:43
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seeleis anyone going to be at FOSSCamp before UDS?09:50
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ScorpKinghi guys. i'm not sure this is the right place to ask but how can i customize the block with "Shutdown, Logout, Restart" on it. what is it called?10:08
nixternalScottK: what did I miss about kubuntu-docs?10:11
ScottKHeh. Look at what I just wrote you in #launchpad.10:12
alleeRiddell: should I use dpatch for the debian/*.files.  There are also added Replaces: ... in debian/control but somehow I don't like to use dpatch'ing the control file.10:16
ScottKallee: You don't need to patch inside the debian dir.10:20
alleeScottK: good :)10:20
ScorpKingis tis the right place to ask that question of mine?10:23
alleeScorpKing: depends on your question :)  nevertheless, never ask if you can ask.  If it's not the 'right' question for this channel,  one will tell you10:25
ScorpKinghi guys. i'm not sure this is the right place to ask but how can i customize the block with "Shutdown, Logout, Restart" on it. what is it called?10:25
ScorpKingthat was it10:26
alleeScorpKing: if you need it to fix an existing bug in the pkgs, that's the right channel.  If you want to do it for 'your taste' ==> #kubuntu-user.  (fwiw: I would have to search myself where it's done)10:28
ScorpKingah ok. thanks. :)10:28
Riddellallee: I wouldn't patch anything in debian/10:30
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alleeRiddell: libgphoto2 patch sent11:06
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Riddellallee: great, uploaded11:14
nixternalhey you c++ phreaks...when you do operator overloads, which method(s) do you prefer? free, member, friend, whatever else is left?11:15
Riddellthose are keywords, not methods11:16
nixternalya, sorry about that11:17
nixternaldoes Qt have operator overloading tools? I have never read anything on it if it does11:17
alleeRiddell: thx11:17
RiddellQt doesn't, C++ does11:17
Riddelloperators are + - >> > == etc11:17
=== allee is curious is the upload of libgphoto2 will close a bug assigned to digikam. Let's wait and see ;)
Riddellwhich you can override in a class with operator+() etc11:18
RiddellQt uses operator overriding for QString for example11:19
nixternaldate date::operator++() { this->dateIncrement(1); return *this; }11:20
nixternalI see the darn problem now11:20
nixternaldayIncrement, not date11:20
nixternalheh, incrementDate(int)....OK, time for a code break11:21
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Tm_Tstupid question, is compiz-fusion active ootb in kubuntu gutsy beta?12:28
Tm_Tthanks, so I thought but wanted to be sure12:28

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