[01:08] I get the feeling that no mattter what i said this "is *exactly* the target audience of ubuntu that troy_s would disagree [01:09] funny that he never steps up and says his opinion but seems to spend more time discussing others opinions and being sarcastic [01:09] sick of that [01:09] kwwii_away: Hey man... short term memory back to Edgy eh? [01:10] With due respect, the meeting was a a sign we are getting somewhere, but there is still much to be rolled out before the designers can actually get to work. [01:11] troy_s: no, I am tired of you being negative and sarcastic without being helpful [01:12] you have so much to offer but you always try to be so negative when we finally have chance to change things [01:12] kwwii_away: Actually, if you look to what I say, and not what you _want_ me to say, you will probably see the logic. I just find it ironic that in this day and age you want optimism when you were possibly the most bullish during Edgy when it came to establishing a process. [01:12] kwwii_away: It isn't a negativity. I have a serious caution when it comes to where Ubuntu can go. Ultimately, as we _both_ know, the big hurdle is sabdfl. [01:13] troy_s: and what does that have to do with the future? [01:13] try, and try again [01:13] kwwii_away: Well as far as I am concerned, the _current_ gets you to the future. [01:13] if you really care === swj [n=steven@c-71-226-69-25.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [01:14] I think that the more you work against the current efforts just shows how much you are not interested in working towards the futures as now we finally have a chance at changing things...I do not need people telling me what is wrong but people telling me how to do things right [01:14] kwwii_away: Whoa. How am I working against the current effort? [01:15] Will there be another meeting soon, and when will the things the designers need to get started (e.g. palette, etc.) be released? [01:16] just stop being negative please...I know that you could help, if you tried - you know what you are talking about just try to move the effort forward instead of putting down everything that we have done [01:16] Misosaki: I think that we will need another meeting sooner rather than later [01:16] probably within the next few weeks [01:17] kwwii_away: Okay. Because some people look like they want to get started. [01:18] kwwii_away: *Just asking because [01:18] Misosaki: yeah, that is why I think it would probably be good to have a meeting soon...I'll send an email to the list with more info soon [01:19] kwwii_away: The gap is between sabdfl and what happens in terms of dev. That is a fundamental problem -- not being bloody negative! [01:19] troy_s: how has sabdfl been negative so far in this process? [01:19] kwwii_away: ?!?!?!?! [01:20] kwwii_away: Where the hell did I type that? [01:20] The gap is between sabdfl and what happens in terms of dev. That is a fundamental problem [01:20] that is what you said [01:20] kwwii_away: I cited the fundamental problem (which is the same one over and over again) -- I have yet to see any motion towards migrating that. [01:21] kwwii_away: And this time, it would be nice if the audience and communication thing were addressed thoroughly once and for all. [01:21] kwwii_away: I said that wasn't me being negative. I merely pointed out a hurdle. I don't know how to negotiate that as it is a tremendous one. [01:21] Misosaki: yepp, I agree [01:22] troy_s: then I will tell you that it is not a problem as it has been before [01:23] anyway [01:23] time for bed [01:23] kwwii_away: Wonderful. And he intends to actually steer the boat? [01:23] to some extent yes but not like it was in the previous releases [01:24] (and by steer the boat I mean to actually give clear 'yes' or 'no' directionality -- not sit like a cheerleader.) [01:25] he already took a much lesser step in the design for gutsy [01:25] he told me what he liked, nothing more [01:25] and he trusts me much more now [01:25] the point, as I always said was about building trust [01:26] nobody ever wanted to get that before [01:26] everyone wanted to say "I like this" while that never formed a consensus [01:26] no wonder that he stepped in and took control [01:26] somebody had to [01:26] kwwii_away: I don't understand how the end was much different? [01:27] even if they did not know everything [01:27] kwwii_away: Then you'll be sure to pass the word on as to what he wants? [01:27] lol, then you never worked in this branch [01:27] kwwii_away: I suppose it is two sides to the trust -- one of the sabdfl side and one of the people who might be able to do the work. [01:27] yes, that is part of my job [01:27] and perhaps two perspectives on a situation. [01:27] to work for the community and for the company [01:28] but first I had to earn trust with the company - they are paying for this after all [01:31] someone pays 10 million euros a year for something which he gives away for free and people get all freaky that he wants to get what he thinks is right and people get all freaky about it - i simply do not understand that [01:32] anyway...goodnight [01:33] things will change, that much I promise [01:33] kwwii_away: I have said all along, I have _zero_ problem with sabdfl wanting things his way. Zero zippo zip -- hence my complete detachment from any process -- what he wants is very clearly something different than what some want. [01:33] just be positice [01:33] positive [01:33] troy_s: that will always be the case no matter who is in charge [01:34] you will never please all the people all of the time [01:34] kwwii_away: Well no kidding. The thinking was more along the bigger pictures of actually attempting to challenge a given population of market. [01:34] kwwii_away: I believe I posted that Aesop a while ago. It is all about percentages. I suppose the question is what percentages does one trust. [01:35] then why don't you step up and say what you think so that we know which percertage you belong to [01:36] you seem to like to step between things so that you can always be negative [01:36] sorry to say that [01:36] but I think you could help so much yet you do not [01:37] kwwii_away: I have said my piece. And I am sorry you view my stance as negative, in my eyes the elements I try to highlight are what my experience and guts are telling me might hinder say -- the arrival at a F7 presentation. [01:37] kwwii_away: If we were to localize a goal. [01:37] I think that if you put more effort in trying to help the process than being negative about it we would get much further [01:38] kwwii_away: I TRIED TO HELP A PROCESS AND I HAD SOMEONE SITTING RIGHT THERE BEING AT LEAST AS NEGATIVE. [01:38] kwwii_away: Which I have long since forgiven and moved on about. Now I am quite interested to see alternates. [01:38] dude, the fact the frank failed is not due to him, he is kid with no experience [01:39] Did I once blame Frank? [01:39] I told you in advance that I did not think his approach would work at that ime [01:39] time [01:39] not that he did not have good ieas [01:39] And you strove like a bugger to make that vision happen. [01:39] ideads [01:39] no, I had nothing to do with it [01:39] I only worked on kubuntu at the time [01:40] which is easy [01:40] You sat on the sidelines and puddled. C'mon... I was there. [01:40] you can do anything with kubuntu and nobody will care [01:40] heya kwwiii [01:40] I was only paid to work on that [01:40] kwwii_away: Granted that with Kubuntu, not many care. [01:40] there are so many eyes on ubuntu that is has to be perfect [01:41] given, troy_s. Only thing to do with opposition is shoot it. [01:41] and we need people like you to help us [01:41] SHOOT IIT [01:41] but we need you to be helpfull and not negative [01:41] <_MMA_> terlmann: You really need to stay out of this. === terlmann gives the room a big hug [01:41] terlmann: take a piss for while, will you? [01:41] kwwii_away: I can't help. I have no idea how to help the situation. The biggest problem (again not being negative) is that the first pass of process failed SOLELY because sabdfl was a missing member of the panel. [01:42] troy_s: yes, I agree on why it failed in the past [01:42] that is not point [01:42] I tried to explain why it would not work at the time but you and frank did not want to listen to me [01:42] kwwii_away: If somewhere, from someone up high you can get who the heck Hardy is going to aim at we might win. I still feel that on some level the uber-conservativism might be an attempt to pull in an business market. [01:42] kwwii_away: Are you kidding me? [01:42] there was no way it would work as you expected at the time [01:43] kwwii_away: Do you have any idea how hard Frank tried to get sabdfl to get involved and make an executive call on things? [01:43] I quote my self : Mark , I would like to say that the community and you are not unified. Your in control of this and we know it. But whether your controlling hand is a shaky one or a firm one , that detail is not known. [01:43] kwwii_away: I mean seriously kwwii_away, Frank is no idiot. [01:43] terlmann: just be quiet [01:43] yes I do, and I felt sorry for him at the time, and I told him so way in advance [01:43] terlmann: shut up, please [01:43] ok [01:44] kwwii_away: It was less about frank and more about the very real disjointed nature of the client and the work that needs to be done. [01:44] troy_s: I told him exactly what the problems would be and they all came ture [01:44] ture [01:44] ahhh [01:44] true [01:44] kwwii_away: I don't think _anyone_ could negotiate that. === terlmann is now known as noone [01:44] troy_s: I agree there was no way to deal with that [01:44] kwwii_away: And I still am wondering if _anything_ has changed in that department. Remember -- at the head of it Mark was identical in _stance_ but the _dance_ was way off. [01:44] the only way to deal with it was to work things out over time [01:45] troy_s: I know it was bad, and I saw it coming, and I warned frank again and again that he would be the scape-goat [01:46] kwwii_away: It was most unfortunate because I personally told sabdfl at the very beginning that to gain the trust (the other side of trust) it would take patience and _time_. [01:46] kwwii_away: Unfortunately, that all got burned in the barn, as well as some very decent talent. [01:47] the thing is, that explainig to him the problems is too much...he does not need the problems, he needs the answers [01:47] and now he is ready to accept the answers [01:47] kwwii_away: I asked nearly day one for anything -- a sample of what he considers 'good design' [01:47] kwwii_away: And even still, it seems all we have is a page out of a magazine... lol. [01:47] at that time I do not think that anything would make him happy excecpt doing exactly what he wanted [01:48] kwwii_away: Hey man -- he had a willing legion at one point. [01:48] kwwii_away: No one could find out. [01:48] agreed [01:49] that is why I warned frank [01:49] kwwii_away: It was like milking blood from a stone. He probably falls into that category of the personality that really doesn't know what it likes or has never had to quantify it. That's fine, but not so fine for the fools who have to try and replicate it. [01:49] ask him, I told him in advance [01:49] I warned him of what I thought he was walking into [01:49] and it all came true [01:49] kwwii_away: Anways, before you bed, see if Canonical is mature enough to have a stated audience and goal. And by audience, let's try and boil it down into a standard demographic lol. [01:50] dude, I will make it come true or I will loose my job [01:50] kwwii_away: How so? [01:50] I wish that I has someone like frank to help me now [01:50] he would be a good partner in this now [01:50] kwwii_away: Frank will avoid free software like the plague. [01:50] at the time he was just screwed because of the situation [01:51] and I told him so [01:51] again and again [01:51] kwwii_away: Oh the other side of that bloody gongshow -- aside from pissing off community members and capable folks -- was that all the people who actually LEARNED from that experience went 'poof' in a puff of smoke. [01:51] ask him [01:51] yepp, what a waste of talent [01:52] kwwii_away: Well let's put it this way -- your 'warning' was viewed as being rather negative on the whole situation. I don't think Frank minds about the result actually. Most things like that are about the journey anyways. [01:52] kwwii_away: The talent can be regrown -- the learning experience can't. [01:52] (well without repeating, and I don't think many people are up for that.) [01:52] but what did you expect me to do? I said again and again to you and frank at UDS Paris that there where problems but you did not want to listen to me [01:52] kwwii_away: ? If the goal was to establish a process isn't that what one should do -- do or die? === noone is now known as terlmann [01:53] kwwii_away: Or you can start politicking. [01:53] it is not a matter of the community growing...it was a matter of other people seeing the reality of things [01:53] kwwii_away: And I guess we differ in views on that. [01:53] sabdfl had to see and trust those around him first [01:54] that means doing what he wants and showing him what he wants first [01:54] and then moving on [01:54] kwwii_away: And at that point, neither was possible. He wasn't able to vocalize _anything_, nor did he seem interested to. [01:54] first you have to gain trust and then you can move on [01:54] it was all too much at one time [01:55] I told frank that, ask him [01:55] I warned him before he even took the job [01:56] the situation was fscked up, and i saw that in advance [01:56] luckily I was only responsible for kubuntu at the time -he did not care about that [01:57] and to be honest, the better I did at that the more I earned his trust, funny enough [01:57] I hated the feisty artwork [01:57] for ubuntu [01:57] but it made him happy to some extent [01:58] and it gained trust [01:58] kwwii_away: Whatever one thinks they were 'right' about is irrelevant. The simple fact was that any of the works would have been better than what ended up in E. That's the great silly. [01:58] god, why do I have to go through this on an open irc channel? [01:58] kwwii_away: Transparency. [01:58] troy_s: I agree totally [01:58] edgy turned out to be total shit [01:59] kwwii_away: Well... arguably since Dapper they have been. [01:59] well, it was as bad as feisty wa [01:59] was [01:59] and I made that shit [01:59] kwwii_away: And again, that is more about how much Canonical is willing to move. All the talent and execution in the world is worth nothing if people aren't going to be willing to roll with it. [01:59] but maybe we can slowly move forward [02:00] kwwii_away: I don't know. I would love to see what sabdfl has to say on things. I wonder how he feels about the long string of debacles. [02:00] so let#s not be negative but move forward [02:01] if you really were to ask him honestly you would only set things back I think [02:01] lol. [02:02] can you understand how there is a point between being honest and being honest? [02:02] I tried to tell frank that he was screwed from the start [02:02] nothing he did was bad [02:03] but he could never do what he was intended to do and make it [02:03] now maybe we have a chance [02:03] I have no complaints with anyone other than sabdfl choosing to avoid issues. I have a major complaint with the way it was spun. Utter tripe. [02:03] so let's make the most of it and move forward [02:04] I believe I have been. I have stuck around and kept contributing -- albeit I have chosen to not really bother with the Ubuntu thing as it still feels all too familiar. [02:05] yes, I do admit that you have been more positive than ever before [02:05] ? [02:05] lol... sure. [02:05] kwwii : would you be willing to appoint more persons to draw up resolutions for sabdfl to approve ? [02:06] but you have to understand how hard it has been for me to talk to you in the past in an open irc channel although I might have agreed with you on many points [02:06] I just do what I do. I can't suggest for a second that I can deliver content that will work. That said, the fundamental flaws with Ubuntu are well known -- even the forum people (if you pour over some of the comments) hit on the possible paths to salvation. [02:07] terlmann: no, unless sabdfl tells me so [02:07] Knowing the answers to the problem is what you need ol benevolent to have , not the problems themselves. Perhaps if you set up some committees of your own you might get something done. [02:07] terlmann: You have to understand -- sabdfl is worth half a billion dollars -- he really could care less. [02:07] troy_s: i think that you have come [02:07] terlmann: He has the world by the beets. [02:07] erm [02:08] the richest man in the world could care about the smallest things of all. Just try it. [02:08] anyway I am talking about indirect resolution , not direct [02:08] we report to you [02:08] troy_s: I think that you have come *very* close to what *we* want and that shows that you do know what is *needed* [02:08] terlmann: confucius, you can't possibly be a bloody fortune cookie. [02:08] you give the ideas to him , not us [02:09] kwwii: I doubt that sincerely. [02:09] lol [02:09] terlmann: I have been very lienent (sl [02:09] spelling) [02:09] terlmann: In the end, no one has the 'way out'. [02:09] terlmann: please stop [02:09] <_MMA_> Oh christ. terlmann cant you just stay out of the conversation? Let it die for tonight. Let kwwii sleep. [02:09] lenient = tolerance of stupidity. I see this is pointless. Good night. === terlmann [n=terlmann@207.254.168.168] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] [02:10] terlmann: I will stop you if you do not know how to stop yourself [02:10] Ouch. A little on the uh... hard. [02:10] what an idiot === _MMA_ claps. [02:10] I am sick of him [02:10] We are all idiots. [02:10] I tried to be tolerant [02:10] I was having trouble figuring out what he was trying to say... let alone get angry with him. [02:10] but I am fed up with his stupidtiy [02:10] lol [02:11] maybe I just had enough [02:11] lol [02:11] <_MMA_> troy_s: He just continually get the subtle hints to chill. [02:11] the anger is justified [02:11] wow, finally [02:11] thanks joejaxx [02:11] <_MMA_> *continually doesnt [02:11] kwwii: you are most welcome [02:11] thanks nothlit [02:11] <_MMA_> Sleep!! [02:11] yeah, good idea [02:12] _MMA_: lol [02:13] troy_s: please do not think that I am trying to be negative - I just want us to all work together as best is possible at the time [02:13] I wish that frank were still around to keep up on things [02:13] anyeay [02:13] anyway [02:13] time for sleep [02:13] kwwii: I am all for it assuming that the boy with the big stick is on the same page. Remember -- sabdfl was positive about things -- but he can change his tune quickly. [02:13] Goodnight kwwii :) [02:13] kwwii: night. [02:13] Night kwwii === terlmann [n=terlmann@207.254.168.168] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === terlmann [n=terlmann@207.254.168.168] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Leaving"] [02:14] troy_s: and if so I will loose my job just as quickly, so it life [02:14] but I have to try === terlmann [n=terlmann@207.254.168.168] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:19] Hi terlmann [02:20] is he asleep ? [02:20] No, Big Brother is watching you. ;) [02:20] better not be [02:21] Big Brother seems an insomniac [02:21] that would be me [02:21] lols What time at your end, joejaxx ? [02:21] 20:21 [02:21] but i normally do not sleep [02:21] it stinks [02:22] in the mountains joe ? [02:22] Sleep has an odour? [02:22] <_MMA_> terlmann: You're just dont get it. You're rubbing alot of people the wrong way. You need to chill. [02:22] YEA [02:22] Misosaki: :P === terlmann goes to the freezer [02:22] <_MMA_> s/you're/you [02:22] say somthing contrary and you get flamed [02:23] joejaxx: :) === terlmann rubs some aloe over his ears [02:24] <_MMA_> terlmann: Please read over this and examine your actions. http://apachecon.com/2006/US/presentations/FR13/FR13-Poisonous-people.pdf [02:24] terlmann: I don't know if what you said was contrary. [02:25] terlmann: I was actually having trouble understanding what you said at all. [02:27] Well I am a strange bird , that is true. but go over my words again. I was simply asking some questions I don't think anyone has asked before. That said perhaps at the time it was the wrong time to say them. [02:27] terlmann: no, I am not asleep if that make you feel better [02:27] GO TO SLEEP === terlmann runs === terlmann runs away madly [02:27] terlmann: you seriously need to stop this is not a Halo 3 chatroom [02:28] <_MMA_> terlmann: Strange or not you need to learn when NOT it inject yourself into things. [02:28] <_MMA_> s/it/to [02:28] Ok. [02:29] everyone go back to idling. [02:29] Um , send ken to bed [02:29] there has been no idling, we've all been watching [02:29] then I can argue with the rest of you === terlmann wants an unofficial meeting that will stress No-one [02:30] <_MMA_> That happened in another, terlmann-free channel. ;) [02:30] I was THERE [02:30] yeah, then stay there [02:30] I was there and wisely kept my trap shut [02:30] _MMA_: :P [02:31] <_MMA_> Naa. you didnt get the joke. ;) [02:31] your whole meeting lasted one hour and I said not one word in it :-D [02:31] <_MMA_> lol [02:31] lol [02:31] <_MMA_> You assume I mean ubuntu-meeting. [02:31] YES [02:31] but no [02:32] your probably refering to something else [02:32] <_MMA_> "ass"ume [02:32] something mystical [02:32] from before time [02:32] <_MMA_> There's no way you're 19. Even someone of that age would get the hint. [02:32] I am 19 [02:33] and I can prove it [02:33] uh oh [02:33] lol [02:33] <_MMA_> Thats sad if its true. [02:33] I may be mentally retarded in fact but I still want to act something older. [02:33] <_MMA_> And honestly, there's no way to prove it online. It can all be fake. [02:33] do your mystical, before time meeting on your own or you will get kicked from this channel, trust me [02:33] _MMA_: See, and you give toby a hard time. [02:34] kwwii [02:34] i do not care how old you are [02:34] _MMA_: chain of trust in person with gpg keys [02:34] I stayed out of the meeting [02:34] I did [02:34] but webcams can be faked easily [02:34] either be productive or leave [02:34] I promise I will stay out of anything important [02:34] nothlit: lol with biometrics [02:34] <_MMA_> troy_s: Yeah. Im writing a apology email now. [02:34] _MMA_: LOL === IanC26 [n=IanC26@2002:908b:a559:4:216:6fff:fe39:ff6e] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:34] IanC26: nice ipv6 ;) [02:34] Hi IanC26 [02:35] terlmann: then there is no reason for you to be in this channel and expect to have a say in anything [02:35] I don't [02:35] I expect the unexpected [02:35] I guess I am wrong [02:35] yes, you are wrong [02:35] Your only human , after all :-) [02:36] if you only knew how many people have told me to kick you.... === d33p__ [n=d33p@145.144.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:37] Sorry to jump in blindly (and to disappear after sending this huge wad of text), but I think one problem here is that lots of this great artwork people mention is just a single piece. There is nothing else in the desktop to go with it, and it quite often appears too close to the wire for much collaboration to happen. (Icons, gdm, usplash, miscellaneous application artwork, default settings / effects... documentation). The current [02:37] In other words: Time for a single, unified mockup, posted early on, that people can look at and work on the actual components for immediately -- whether they are particularly happy about it or not. Working quickly at this is the only way to change Ubuntu's artwork, because the gradual, 'one chunk per release' approach simply can't work for a significant change in direction. [02:37] I was amazed that it worked (IPv6 that is)! [02:37] IanC26: :D [02:38] dmccall: totally agreed [02:39] dmccall: the whole point of the new process is to facilitate that process [02:39] lol, I said process twice in one sentence === Misosaki_ [n=chatzill@ip6-226.eyrkonaeac04.dialup.ca.telus.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [02:39] time for sleep [02:39] I give up [02:40] you can all deal with terlmann on your own [02:40] LOL [02:40] kwwii_away: lols Get some rest [02:41] LOL [02:41] Goodnight kwwii_away :) [02:43] night joejaxx, Misosaki_, all [02:43] :) [02:44] cyas, get some rest, 2 hours isn't good for anybody [02:44] night bold hero [02:45] terlmann: You are otkadeto right? [02:45] no idea what that is , sorry [02:46] <_MMA_> Oh sh!t! :) [02:46] <_MMA_> lol [02:46] <_MMA_> troy_s: Please say you have the quotes. [02:46] Oh, a person like me. [02:46] well , I tried to msg kwwi before he got off [02:47] I said something that applies to all of you [02:47] terlmann: We're people? [02:47] _MMA_: you know i log everything [02:47] Acting my age is not going to happen quickly, I am sorry to say to you. I just don't have the know-how to get a grip on the situation. I am always in good spirits about anything, and I am willing to be bold with the greatest and humble with the least. Just I am sorry you do not know WHY I do it. Because if you did , your tolerance would , in retrospect , be limitless. [02:48] There. [02:48] Something for you to chew on. [02:48] Well, maybe if you could tell us why you do what ... ? [02:49] please digest the whole post first. [02:49] chew thoughly [02:49] <_MMA_> Sorry man. "limitless" aint gonna hapen with anyone but your parents. [02:49] True , true. [02:49] terlmann: More importantly, can you illustrate or draw? [02:49] yes [02:49] lol [02:50] no you cannot [02:50] hmm ? [02:50] <_MMA_> God I wish I could kick Kenneth from the channel. :) [02:50] lol [02:50] I did this [02:51] http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/338/ubuntulionbrandedxl9.jpg [02:51] And I do some 3-d modelling for now [02:51] I wish I could kick myself from the channel [02:51] <_MMA_> terlmann: adding that logo takes nothing. [02:52] not just a logo [02:52] it was over 100 steps [02:52] kwwii_away: get to sleep before we all have to put you on ignore to [02:52] not just transparency [02:52] terlmann: Ok -- so what made you choose to center punch the logo? [02:52] wow, you added a logo to existing artwork [02:52] ok , hold on [02:52] <_MMA_> terlmann: than you're doing something wrong. [02:52] amazing [02:52] I am sick of this [02:52] <_MMA_> I could do it in 5 mins in Inkscape or GIMP. [02:52] I put some up on imageshack , but I need to find the links.. [02:53] <_MMA_> troy_s or joejaxx: Do you have the hamburger quote? :) [02:53] ok find some links. [02:54] "With that, I make hamburger for the akademy!" [02:54] <_MMA_> :D [02:55] <_MMA_> If you even attempt to figure it out you go cross-eyed. [02:55] LOL! [02:55] terlmann: Links to your works? [02:56] I said I am searching [02:56] <_MMA_> I really hope you do. You tend to talk alot but show little. === Misosaki_ [n=chatzill@ip6-226.eyrkonaeac04.dialup.ca.telus.com] has left #ubuntu-artwork [] === Misosaki [n=chatzill@ip6-226.eyrkonaeac04.dialup.ca.telus.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [03:02] <_MMA_> terlmann: Ill read back to see what you post. If you dont. Ill ask tomorrow. [03:02] 7000 google entries man [03:03] I have to go through all of them [03:03] my originals died in a crash [03:03] <_MMA_> Im sorry man. Its just all too convenient. [03:03] But for you to expect me to have something is rediculious [03:03] how old am I ? [03:04] <_MMA_> If your 19? Yes. Its expected. [03:04] you take me seriously or as nonsense as YOU please. [03:05] <_MMA_> Its up to YOU to put up or shut up and trust me if you dont take it upon yourself to shut up you will be forced. [03:05] Just a word of wisdom for you : If you reject me now , as I act now, you will find it harder to accept me later , when I am actually acting the way you want . Ponder that for a while. [03:05] I am going to "shut up" now. === terlmann is now known as _|_ [03:06] _|_: isn't this your stuff? http://terlmann.deviantart.com/ [03:06] <_MMA_> You still didnt say if you're 19 os not. [03:06] <_MMA_> *or [03:06] <_|_> That is my page , yes . About two years old. [03:07] <_|_> I have not used it since I started going to college [03:07] <_MMA_> Shouldnt a 19 year-old who talks so much about his art accomplishments have examples? [03:07] <_MMA_> I have things going back to 10 years old. [03:07] <_|_> no. [03:07] <_|_> I have talked about my accomplishments > [03:08] <_|_> no. [03:08] <_|_> I bragged about how I could do better. [03:08] <_|_> at managing. [03:08] <_MMA_> You will find that your talking simply isnt enough. [03:11] <_MMA_> And whats the point of changing your nick if you stay in the channel? [03:11] <_|_> In my Defense , you tend to like to talk to guys that impress you. Are as good or better than you at what you talk about. However, it becomes mute. The person you may be trying to talk to is too busy being impressive to talk to you. [03:12] <_|_> _MMA_ : I won't leave the channel till I give you that link. [03:12] <_MMA_> Then why change the nick? [03:12] <_|_> to say Dont talk to me , I'm busy. [03:18] the return of otkadeto. I love it. [03:19] _|_: When you say 'However, it becomes mute", you probably mean 'moot'. Oft confused terms. [03:19] <_MMA_> mmm..... hamburgers.... [03:19] <_|_> Thank you for the clarification. [03:19] do not forget the tinfoil [03:19] _MMA_: ^ [03:20] <_MMA_> ;) [03:20] lol [03:20] http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ [03:22] <_MMA_> :) === LuisBG [n=d33p@ubuntu/member/luisbg] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === d33p__ [n=d33p@116.144.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:08] <_|_> http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ubuntuzm8.jpg === _|_ is now known as terlmann [04:08] good night [04:10] <_MMA_> ? [04:10] <_MMA_> Oh I call bullsh!t. === wedderburn [n=andrew@ppp194-10.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === LuisBG [n=d33p@ubuntu/member/luisbg] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === woodwizzle [n=corey@user-0c6sr0a.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:37] Hello [04:38] Are there any tools that make it easier to make custom icon themes? [04:38] and I don't mean art tools. But tols to properly organize the files etc. === klepas [n=klepas@ppp167-251-133.static.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [04:59] <_MMA_> woodwizzle: Not that I have seen in a long time. Its a pretty manual process. [05:14] woodwizzle: Your best bet is to ls the directory of Tango. [05:14] woodwizzle: And fill in the non symlink'd icons with your plan. [05:15] woodwizzle: The boys of Tango have done terrific work to make it integrate in terms of layout -- of course there are still some kludges and such, but that isn't their fault. === troy_s [n=troy_s@d206-116-6-170.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [05:52] wb === Misosaki [n=chatzill@ip6-226.eyrkonaeac04.dialup.ca.telus.com] has left #ubuntu-artwork ["Have] === tonic-pushcart [n=tonic@203-114-182-35.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === tonic-pushcart [n=tonic@203-114-182-35.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === tonic-pushcart [n=tonic@203-114-182-35.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === tonic-pushcart [n=tonic@203-114-182-35.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === tonic-pushcart [n=tonic@203-114-182-35.dsl.sta.inspire.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === Madpilot [n=brian@ubuntu/member/madpilot] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === LuisBG [n=d33p@ubuntu/member/luisbg] has joined #ubuntu-artwork === mtholdenss [n=michaelt@d58-104-106-92.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [09:02] hey === lassegul [n=lasse@89.10.30.235] has joined #ubuntu-artwork [09:25] good morning! [09:25] hey [09:25] how did that meeting go yesterday? [09:26] very good. [09:26] you missed it? [09:26] yeah, i live in australia, it was at 3 am in the morning, i needed sleep haha [09:27] http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-meeting.log.20071002_1759.html check the log [09:27] thanks [09:27]