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slangasekasac: bug #147913 is still shown as 'in progress'; surely the copyright update should be straightforward, so is it really in progress?01:35
ubotuLaunchpad bug 147913 in gnash "[gutsy]  gnash shipped with GPLv2 debian copyright even though upstream uses GPLv3 since 0.8.1" [Critical,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14791301:35
cjwatson"first reported 22 hours ago"01:36
jdongso Launchpad doesn't have a 1-hour delivery service like my local pizza shop?01:36
jdong(sometimes it can't even load a page before the pizza arrives.... :D)01:36
cjwatsondamn, now I'm hungry01:37
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asacslangasek: yes ... its in progress ;)01:45
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asacslangasek: meaning its about to be uploaded01:45
slangasekok :)01:45
TheMusocjwatson: Re the problem with germinate and the ubuntustudio meta not treating ubuntustudio-desktop as a dependency, I'm just wondering whether its worth adding ubuntustudio-desktop as a hard-coded dependency in the meta package for now as a workaround?01:45
slangasekcjwatson: that's still a lot of progress! :)01:46
asacslangasek: i use in progress to show you (RMs) that you don't have to bother ;)01:46
cjwatsonTheMuso: it's OK, I'll fix it tomorrow01:47
cjwatsonshouldn't be hard01:47
slangasekasac: noted :)01:47
TheMusocjwatson: Ok.01:47
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lamontslangasek: could you be so kind as to move libgcc2/gutsy/hppa to universe?02:31
lamontFWIW, that package gets sucked in by debootstrap, but need not.02:32
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lamontand yes, that'll make lots and lots of main not installable without universe, until the buildd catches up with things02:33
lamontOTOH, debootstrap now workd02:33
lamontworks, even02:33
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slangaseklamont: done, I think02:37
lamontheh.  thanks02:38
lamonthrm... why is gcc-3.4 still in main?02:40
slangasekfor libg2c0 apparently?02:42
lamontif gcc-3.4 is supposed to still be in main for gutsy, then oops.  libgcc2 and gcc-4.0-base need to be in main for hppa (gcc-3.4 depends libgcc2 which depends gcc-4.0-base)02:42
lamontor if you don't mind, I'll kick a no-change gcc-3.4 build to get hppa current, and we'll see if that removes the libgcc2 depends...02:43
lamontI think the latter is actually the correct answer02:43
=== lamont looks at the source, assuming it finishes downloading in the next 2 minutes before I run out the door to my 7PM meeting.
lamontanyway, I'll prepare an upload once I get back in a couple hours, if it makes sense02:45
lamontafter all, the rest of the compilers got rebuilt this last week... doko just doesn't love gcc-3.4 anymore, it seems. :=)02:46
lamontrebuilding it might work.  gone02:51
lamontand I'll pester you when I'm back home02:51
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lee_peppercould any one offer any insight in to this error in a LiveCD build by livcd-rootfs > $ ubiquity gtk \n sudo: must be setuid root03:34
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christiananybody in04:05
christianwhere r u from hobbse04:05
bddebianHobbsee: shh ;-)04:05
Hobbseechristian: australia.  you may be looking for #ubuntu-offtopic04:06
christiani'm looking04:06
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christianfor something04:06
christianis putting me out04:06
christianand i cannot solve04:06
ubotuPlease try to keep your questions/responses on one line - don't use the "Enter" key as punctuation!04:06
pwnguinyou know, complete sentences in a single line aren't that hard. even I can pull those off04:06
christiancould u help me04:06
Hobbseechristian: please read the /topic04:07
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christiani'm lookin for how could i run a c++ application04:08
christianin gnome terminal04:08
Hobbseethen you want #ubuntu04:09
RAOFchristian: By asking in a support channel, such as #ubuntu.04:09
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christianno problem04:09
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StevenKDamn it, I hate it when debmirror is right.04:11
pwnguinaww crap. bryce actually responded to a bug report04:12
pwnguinnow i have to go forth and regather the relevant data =/04:13
Hobbseeyou could just close the bug :P04:14
pwnguinim sure it still exists04:14
pwnguinits just that using displayconfig-gtk tends to destroy xorg.conf04:14
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lamontslangasek: any objections to a gcc-3.4 upload?04:26
slangaseklamont: nope04:26
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lamontmlton:                  10:21:54 (1 entry, sigma 00:00:00)04:28
StevenKIt *seems* like every directory of this source bar one deals with -fPIC -DPIC04:28
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RAOFYay autofoo!  What is it?04:28
lamontRAOF: it's spelled autocrap04:29
lamontStevenK: ouch04:29
StevenKIt's a guess on my part.04:29
StevenKI see -fPIC -DPIC in other parts of the build, and it seems like one object isn't getting -fPIC'd and when it comes time to link the whole thing together, it blows up.04:30
lamonthow does it blow up?  and what arch?04:31
ScottKHow big are the flames?04:31
Hobbsee|------------------|  <-- that big.  (not to scale)04:32
StevenKlamont: amd6404:32
lamontand the error?04:32
RAOFBecause amd64 *really* cares about PIC.04:32
RAOFi386, not so much.04:32
StevenKlamont: I'm getting there, my machine is building. :-)04:32
lamontah, ok04:32
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=== StevenK pushes this build uphill
StevenK/usr/bin/ld: ../libtinymailui-gnome-keyring/libtinymailui-gnome-keyring.a(tny-gnome-keyring-password-getter.o): relocation R_X86_64_32S against `a local symbol' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC04:40
StevenKlamont: ^04:40
lamontyeah - you need -fPIC, and probably -DPIC if that's what the rest of the build says...04:41
StevenKlamont: If I hack libtinymailui-gnome-keyring/Makefile and add -DPIC -fPIC to the LIBTINYMAIL_CFLAGS, it works. I'm just uncertain how to fix it with autobork04:41
lamontwhich gets us to why I hate autocrap04:42
=== lamont is not the right person to ask
RAOFStevenK: You could patch Makefile.am to add -fPIC to the CFLAGS.04:42
lamontlook at Makefile.in in a directory that works?04:42
lamontor possibly Makefile.am, depending on which exists...04:43
lamont.am if present, then .in, then Makefile04:43
RAOFStevenK: But isn't autofoo meant to do that automatically for shared libs-on-amd64?04:43
StevenK-fPIC exist in none of the Makefile.{in,am}04:43
lifelessStevenK: its either something settings CFLAGS that should set AM_CFLAGS04:43
lifelessor similar on a per-target pasis04:43
lifelessStevenK: -fPIC is set by autoconf at configure time, it only ever exists in Makefile and config.status04:43
StevenKAh ha.04:44
lamontso something in a Makefile.am or config* is causing it to not set it in that directory - grepping for that dir and a working one through the tree might bear fruit.04:44
lamontand lifeless knows far more about auto* than I ever want to04:44
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StevenKHum. -fPIC only appears in 3 makefiles04:49
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StevenKThe broken directory's Makefile.am sets INCLUDES without including AM_CFLAGS04:52
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thullyI've got an issue with gnome-power-manager that has been nagging for some time05:41
thullyI've found a source of the problem, but am unsure of the exact solution (I'm not exactly a C whiz...)05:41
thullyThe bug is bug #13759805:42
ubotuLaunchpad bug 137598 in gnome-power-manager "Screen brightness resets to default (maximum) on idle with AC plugged in" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13759805:42
ScottKthully: This is a pretty quiet time here.  Most devs are sleeping.05:42
ScottKthully: Are you sure it's a regression?05:43
thullyOK - I guess I figured that they were scattered across many time zones...05:43
ScottKThey are, but the concentration is in in US/Europe.05:44
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thullyIt may not be a regression per se, but in any case Feisty didn't do it with the AC plugged in05:44
ScottKI'm not sure what that means.05:44
ScottKWhat did Feisty do wrong?05:44
thullyWhen I had the AC adapter plugged in, the screen didn't "dim" to full brightness on idle05:45
thullyThat's what it does on Gutsy05:45
thullyHowever, I've pinned it down to the idle/dim logic in gpm-backlight.c05:45
ScottKI'll call that a regression.05:46
ScottKWhat I recommend you do is add your findings to the bug in as much detail as you understand it.05:46
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ScottKI'm going to milestone the bug for RC since it's a regression (I think I have sufficient power to do that).05:46
thullyOK - I'm looking at the code to see if I can fix it.  I understand the problem fairly well, but i'm no C expert05:47
ScottKthully: It's now milestoned for RC due to being a regression.05:47
ScottKOK.  If you can figure a patch, your odds go way up.05:48
ScottKIn any case take it as far as you can.  If you figure a patch, then subscribe ubuntu-main-sponsors to the bug.05:48
HobbseeScottK: you do, but dont be surprised if it gets dropped05:48
Hobbseebut if i'ts with a patch, then that'll elp it significantly05:48
ScottKHobbsee: Sure.  No guarantees, but if it's a regression, I think an RC milestone is fair.05:49
thullyI did have a few other regression issues, as well...05:49
HobbseeScottK: true.  assuming people have time to fix it.05:49
ScottKWhich is why having a patch helps hugely.05:49
thullyThose would be bugs 127101 and 13773805:49
ubotuLaunchpad bug 127101 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "laptop hangs when switching video mode" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12710105:49
ubotuLaunchpad bug 137738 in ubuntu "[gutsy]  suspend / hibernate works fine, but after resume, I get a "Failed to suspend" popup" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13773805:49
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ScottKHobbsee: On that basis, what do you think about milestoning Bug #127772?05:50
ubotuLaunchpad bug 127772 in linux-source-2.6.22 "CPU fan no longer runs after upgrade to Gutsy" [Medium,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12777205:50
HobbseeScottK: i'd check with the kernel team05:51
HobbseeScottK: they get hit real soon nwo by kernel freeze anyway05:51
ScottKthully: The xserver one is assigned to the Ubuntu X maintainer, so I think your odds there are as good as they get already.05:52
HobbseeScottK: ah, there is a starting point on that one.05:52
ScottKthully: The suspend/hibernate one really needs to be narrowed down to the affected package before I'd feel confortable milestoning it.05:53
thullyScottK/Hobbsee: I see they're working on it, but I really think they should revert intel driver to i810 for supported cards if the fix doesn't make it05:53
ScottKWell we aren't the people to have that argument with.05:53
thullywho would be?  I mentioned it on the bug itself...05:54
=== ScottK goes to clean the refrigerator some more.
ScottKThe person to whom it's assigned.05:54
thullyScottK: regarding the suspend one, I almost certain it's gnome-power-manager being uber-sensitive05:54
thullyas my machine suspends/resumes fine05:54
ScottKOK.  I'm a Kubuntu kind of person, so I'm not going to weigh in on that one.05:55
ScottKthully: Good luck figuring the patch.05:55
=== ScottK REALLY goes to clean the refrigerator some more.
thullyI guess I'll look at the diff from feisty - it works OK there...05:56
thullyHonestly, I can't believe this gnome-power-manager is an actual upstream release - it is uber-buggy in a glaringly obvious way05:57
RAOFthully: It's possible that no-one else has their display brightness set < max when on AC? :)05:57
=== Hobbsee is one of those people
Hobbseebut then, i don tuse gnome, so i think it's a bit brighter anyway05:58
=== Hobbsee --> uni
thullyno one - that's mind of unbelievable, as many screens are EXTREMELY bright at full brightness05:58
RAOFthully: Ok.  No-one from the g-p-m team?05:59
AmaranthRAOF: the g-p-m team is ogra06:00
RAOFAmaranth: Heh.  Ok, that *ogra* has his brightness set to 100% on AC.06:01
AmaranthRAOF: What is a sane default if not 100?06:01
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AmaranthJust push the button on your keyboard to turn it down and it'll be remembered06:02
Amaranthor use the panel applet, or gconf-editor06:02
RAOFBut that's not quite the bug, though.06:03
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Hobbseeasac: btw, my wifi works at uni too now!  well done!  (ipw3945, unencrypted)07:11
lifelessHobbsee: does NM work for you?07:14
RAOFlifeless: Works for me (ipw3945/iwl3945, WPA2/WEP/unencrypted)07:15
lifelessI have a iwl394507:15
lifelesscrashes for me07:15
Hobbseelifeless: yes, fully now07:15
lifelesshmm, I'll update and try again07:16
Hobbseelifeless: it didnt used to connect on open networks07:16
RAOFWorked, most of the time, with iwl.  Definitely works with ipw07:16
lifelessHobbsee: 'kernel panic'07:16
Hobbseelifeless: ouchy.  never had that from wifi07:16
StevenKI've had ipw2200 cause kernel BUG and an Oops, but never a panic07:17
RAOFlifeless: Does ipw work, though?07:17
lifelessRAOF: I haven't tried replacing the driver; massively short on time to fiddle. I just nuked NM and ran up /etc/interfaces07:17
RAOFThe iwl3945 have still got their pciid's patched out to ensure you deliberately load it, right?07:18
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=== lamont has found that "NM" and "works" tend not to fit in the same sentence when he's creating it.
lamontthen again, having disabled it, I find that my multi-homed-laptop life is much happier07:44
=== RAOF has found NM generally works delightfully, even with crappy UniWide VPN stuff.
StevenKI don't have many problems with NM on Feisty07:44
lamontI have no problems with it either, since I killed it... :-)07:45
lamontit was its decision to switch networks for me, or re-up an interface and route lots of stuff down a default path that was currently bogus that caused me to decide that it must die07:45
lamontI suppose I should try enabling it in gutsy and see if it's any better07:46
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slangaseklamont: "NM inspires in me a great capacity for hurling fire works at the people who thought it up"? ;)08:11
lamontslangasek: you know I would never do that.08:11
Hobbseefireworks would be too painless.08:11
StevenKlamont: What, not personally, anyway? :-)(08:12
lamontI think I would like NM more if it believed that there was more than one use-case08:12
slangasekI thought you weren't a volunteer firefighter anymore, it's no longer a conflict of interest ;)08:12
lamontHobbsee: the trick is to get the right kind....08:12
StevenKLike napalm08:12
lamontslangasek: I did retire. makes it much harder to get useful fireworks. :-)08:12
StevenKlamont: The one use case being "You are using only one of wired or wireless with DHCP" ?08:14
RAOFStevenK: And possibly using some form of VPN08:14
StevenKActually, I think the one use case of NM is "You want to spend hours debugging network issues while I 'help' you, right?"08:15
lamontStevenK: "you only have one interface active ever, and you never manually set it up to anything other than what I think the default is."08:15
lamontfor bonus points, postrm downs the interface08:15
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lamontso never remove networkmangler remotely08:15
liwI'm a lucky member of the one NM use case (now that I figured out you mean NetworkManager and not the Debian thing :)08:15
RAOFHeh.  My use case is "my laptop moves around, and I'd like networking to work"08:15
StevenKlamont: Hah08:16
lamontStevenK: I guess the logic is that you don't want networking, since you removed network-mangler08:16
lifelesslamont: NM won't get better, its intended to be stupid08:16
StevenKSo it kills networking on upgrades, too?08:17
StevenKThis just smacks of dbus, "You can't restart the dbus daemon, you HAVE to reboot"08:17
RAOFNot that I've noticed.08:17
lifelessupgrades have been interesting on this laptop08:18
=== RAOF full-upgrades his remote box, just to see.
lifelessgiven that upgrades *start* NM08:18
lifelessand NM *stops the box*08:18
StevenKAnd then dpkg says, "Network Manager broke your upgrade. Let me start it for you."08:19
lamontbind9 is the only thing missing from ubuntu-standard/hppa... /me goes bug-report scanning08:20
Hobbseesoren: why is cups-pdf required to have the root's p/w now?08:20
lifelesssay what08:21
lifeless*nothing* gets my root password08:21
lifelessthank you very much08:21
Hobbsee[16:20]  <Hobbsee> Setting up cups-pdf (2.4.6-3ubuntu7) ...08:21
Hobbsee[16:20]  <Hobbsee> Password for root on localhost?08:21
Hobbsee[16:20]  <Hobbsee> Password for root on localhost?08:21
Hobbsee[16:20]  <Hobbsee> lpadmin: Unauthorized08:21
Hobbsee[16:20]  <Hobbsee> dpkg: error processing cups-pdf (--configure):08:21
Hobbsee[16:20]  <Hobbsee>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 108:21
Hobbseeduring a dist-upgrade in a chroot from feisty--> gutsy.08:21
Hobbseeslangasek: that was my thought.08:21
lifelesswhat was soren thinking08:21
Hobbseei'm surprised it hasnt been picked up in update testing bfeore08:21
lamontespecially since root doesn't have a password08:22
sorenlifeless, Hobbsee: Huh?08:22
LaserJockajmitch: ping?08:22
=== lamont finds himself totally lacking in comprehension of what the user is talking about in bug 147731
ubotuLaunchpad bug 147731 in bind9 "This package prevent .local adresses to work" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14773108:22
Hobbseesoren: just doing a kubuntu dist-upgrade in a chroot from feisty--> gutsy, and getting the above ^08:23
StevenKHobbsee: Can you edit the postinst in /var/lib/dpkg/info/cups-pdf.postinst and add 'set -x' as the second line.08:23
StevenKHobbsee: Then run 'dpkg --configure -a'08:23
sorenHobbsee: ...and how is that my fault?08:23
Hobbseesoren: (that's your domain, isnt it?)08:24
lifelesslamont: my roots do08:24
sorenHobbsee: cups-pdf? Heck no.08:24
lamontlifeless: mine too08:24
Hobbseesoren: drat, i'm sorry - i thought you were the last uploader, for some reason!08:24
lamontbut that's just so I can deal with bad times during boot08:24
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Hobbseelooks to be pitti's fault, or till's, or keescook08:25
lifelesssorry soren !08:25
sorenYou sure had me confused for a second there :)08:25
lamontScottK: I'd be interested in seeing a patch fo rbug 4246308:25
HobbseeStevenK: as in, a seperate set -x, or a set -ex?08:26
sorenHobbsee: Somehow I'd be a bit surprised if pitti or kees made anything ask for your root password..08:26
Hobbsee(there's already a set -e there)08:26
StevenKHobbsee: Either is fine, latter prefered08:26
Hobbseesoren: that's what i woudl have thought.  which leaves q-funk.  'nough said.08:26
HobbseeStevenK: pastebinning.08:27
lamontHobbsee: you're sync-capable, yes?08:27
Hobbseelamont: me?  hell no, i dont work for canonical.08:27
lamontnm.  /me isn't patient enough to wait for it to actually get _into_ sid.08:27
Hobbseelamont: slangasek may be at this point.08:27
lamonthe is.08:27
Hobbseeif rt has done his request08:27
StevenKlamont: If it's in Incoming, it can be sync'd08:27
lamontah, true enough... and there's already a bug, so I can do it that way08:28
HobbseeStevenK: http://rafb.net/p/XYd3ck61.html08:28
lamontHobbsee: I08:28
lamont'm a buildd-admin team member, and not a canonical emp.08:28
Hobbseelamont: how the heck did you manage that?08:28
StevenKlamont has been a Debian porter since, well '.'08:29
Hobbseelamont: ah right, you're thru debian, so get more privs.  that makes sense.08:29
lamontI _was_ canonical... and well, we decided that I could still be one of the cool kids, even though I left.08:29
Hobbseeoh right.08:29
Hobbseethat explains even more then.08:29
lamontnothing to do with debian, actually08:29
StevenKlamont: You went from HP to Canonical and then back again?08:30
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Hobbseeno, but if you were at canonical, it would explain everything - not enough people have access to them to fix it as it is.08:30
Hobbseehi Spads08:30
lamontStevenK: yes08:30
StevenKlamont: Interesting.08:30
lamontStevenK: well... actually that was HP IT -> unemployed -> Canonical -> HP Linux Division08:30
lamontwhich makes it much more understandable08:31
StevenKAh, way cool. So now you're under Bdale?08:31
lamontI could be wrong, but I don't believe bdale actually has anyone reporting to him.08:31
lamontbut he is Linux CTO08:32
lamontor some such08:32
StevenKlamont: Sounds about right.08:32
StevenKHobbsee: Okay, it looks like the people to blame are Till Kamppeter or pitti08:33
ion_Blame Canada.08:33
=== StevenK headdesks at #d-d
sorenIf I don't get asked for my root password when I upgrade cups-pdf, am I doing something wrong?08:34
slangasekStevenK: ?08:36
StevenKslangasek: ari being, well, ari08:37
slangasekwell, yes08:37
torkelsoren: No. You probably already have the cups-pdf print queue before upgrading08:39
StevenKWhere as Hobbsee probably doesn't08:40
Hobbseeprint queue?08:40
calcdavidm: hi! :) (yea you are probably asleep i should be too)08:41
StevenKHobbsee: cups-pdf adds a "Print to PDF" queue on upgrade.08:41
StevenKHobbsee: That's what that lpadmin command is trying to do.08:41
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realistThat reminds me, printing a pdf from evince didn't work last week, yet piping pdf2ps output to lp worked - should I try and reproduce on a default install?08:45
liwrealist, you should always try to make a bug reproducible :)08:46
liwhttp://www.debuggingrules.com/ -- I don't think I've mentioned this anywhere today :)08:47
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realistliw: what if I can only reproduce the bug with said pdf file?08:50
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liwrealist, if you can share (privately) that pdf with evince maintainers (Ubuntu/upstream), that would be great, but if not, things may get difficult, unless you can debug it yourself08:51
StevenKI can remember wiggy complaining that OpenOffice always used to crash when he was playing with documents under a NDA08:52
Spadsliw: that poster reminds me of the Reading Rainbow posters we used to have at school in the 80s.  They had Levar Burton on them and said "Reading.  It's not just FUN: It's FUN-damental!"08:52
sorentorkel: Oh, right.08:52
realistFortunately this isn't under NDA, but it may have personally identifiable information in it :-(08:52
realistI'll try on another machine first, then from gutsy.08:53
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Mirvcjwatson: if you have time, bug 147612 links to remaining installer i18n problems besides being a bug itself. especially I'd really like to have the final "Install" button translated.08:59
ubotuLaunchpad bug 147612 in ubiquity ""Advanced..." button untranslated" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14761208:59
mdkeiwj: around?09:00
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lamontslangasek: still awake?09:19
mdkeI need to batch rename a substantial number of files from filename-LANG.po to LANG.po, does anyone know how I can do that?09:27
lamontfor f in filename-*.po; do mv $f ${f#filename-}; done09:29
lamontI imagine someone has crafted some special command to do that, but why bother? :-)09:29
Mithrandirrename s/filename-// filename-*.po ?09:30
=== mdke tries
mdkeMithrandir: do you think "svn rename" supports that too?09:31
Mithrandirit doesn't09:31
Mithrandirbut lamont's version could work with svn rename09:31
lamontMithrandir: given tac-nukes...09:31
lamonts/given/once you have/09:32
mdkeI replace "mv" with "svn mv"?09:32
lamontor mv with svn rename09:32
Mithrandirlamont: to you, everything smaller than a tac-nuke's not worth having.09:32
lamontor whatever svn wants09:32
=== mdke tries :)
lamontI will admit that it's not uncommon for people to scratch their heads when they have occasion to watch me type in a "one-liner" shell command that's a few hundred characters long, including some semi-complex regexps in sed or so...09:33
StevenKlamont: Hey, that happens to me too!09:34
slangaseklamont: sadly09:34
=== lamont fails to understand why they should think that strange...
lamontslangasek: since Mithrandir admitted to being awake, I figured I'd abuse him for the sync. :-)09:35
slangasekok then09:35
Mithrandirsync, schmynk?09:35
lamontMithrandir: I have to actually upload it to debian first...09:36
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=== lamont is fixing some bind9 bugs
slangasekcalc: how's OOo doing?09:36
Mithrandirlamont: ahkay09:36
lamontthey're all either trivial, or at least interesting in LP09:36
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mdkelamont: I've tried http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/39431/ (I've just put in one filename, "about-ubuntu" to test). Can you see where it's wrong?09:38
lamontI knew it was dangerous to answer that question... :-)09:38
mdkeperhaps I haven't got the paths right09:38
mdkeok, if you're too busy, please don't worry09:39
mdkei'll try and play with it09:39
mdkelamont: yeah, sorted, sorry09:40
slangaseklamont: wrt the "BIOS clock" question - surely if there isn't such a question today, there's an assumed answer to this question?09:41
lamontfor i in about-ubuntu ; do for x in $(cd $i/po && echo $i-*.po); do echo $x ; echo svn mv $i/po/$x $i/po/${x#$i-}; done ; done09:41
lamontslangasek: "utc"09:41
slangaseklamont: so what's the problem with going with that answer?09:42
lamontwhich, if you're dual-booting, tends to be wrong09:42
lamontsince windoze insists that the BIOS clock == localtime09:42
lamontit's not like windoze gives you the option09:42
slangasekok, so this is the "system assumes UTC, Windows resets to local time, fsck gets the time wrong on reboot" case09:42
lamontso the solution is to set BIOS==localtime, and always make sure that windoze is running when daylight-savigs time changes happen09:43
lamontthis is the "kernel assumes UTC, we don't fix it, then we do (ntpdate), and now the timestamp on the about-to-be-checked FS is in the future, because you have the misfortune of living east of Greenwich" thing09:44
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slangasekI have to say I'm a bit worried about changes in this area so close to release, because I'd believed this whole thing was sorted twice before now09:44
lamontslangasek: where as I knew it wasn't sorted... the last time I came close to it, there was no answer that worked... and then they made /etc/localtime not a symlink to /usr/ (which is frequently not on the root partition - major mess)09:45
slangasekhrm, "kernel assumes UTC" - at what point are you saying that's a problem, does the system even know the timezone at that point? .... or does it know the timezone because of the last fix?09:45
lamontand then Ted was kind enough to file a very detailed explanation09:45
lamontat the kernel boot time, it doesn't know the TZ, assumes UTC09:46
lamontas long as we get the time corrected before we mount /, then we haven't screwed over e2fsck09:46
slangasekok, so... isn't that the same bug as always?09:46
lamontso we need to fix the clock before we mount -oremount,rw /09:46
slangasekso is it *really* fixed this time? :)09:46
lamontpicky picky.09:47
lamontfor non-ubiquity installs, yes09:47
lamont"we deeply regret any inconvenience this may cause ubiquity users in the eastern hemisphere who use BIOS=local"09:47
lamontwe regret it so much that we might change ubiquity to let them fix it before hardy ships09:48
lamontnah - I use windoze with localtime==UTC09:48
lamontbecause, dammit.  BIOS==utc09:48
lamontso windoze gets to think we live in the UTC TZ09:48
realistThat's how I would resolve it, if I used Windows, that is.09:49
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lamontmany users get very confused if they see UTC times09:49
sladen_so storing the timezone offset in the filesystem (with one of the offsets being "unknown"09:49
=== slangasek vomits politely
sladen_then anything within 24hours of unknonwn can be discounted09:49
sladen_and then in that case, the generic case could be to discount a timeout +/-12hours of the considered time09:50
lamonthrm.. when did debootstrap become arch:any?09:51
sladenwell that's actually the fix isn't it.  to turn a timeout of 180days into  179days +/- 1 day09:51
lamontno.  the hack solution for gutsy was to have e2fsprogs pick up a config option that says to ignore the fact that the filesystem time is in the future09:52
slangaseklamont: it... didn't?09:53
lamontdistinguish between a system whose clock is off by two hours, and one that is in +020009:53
sladen(...in the future /by less than 24hours/)09:53
lamontslangasek: ah... it's been arch:any for _quite_ sometime... my bad.09:53
lamontanyway, mind if I do 1.0.3build109:54
slangaseklamont: er, what?09:54
slangasek$ apt-cache show debootstrap|grep Arch09:54
slangasekArchitecture: all09:54
fabbioneslangasek: just to trigger a no-change rebuild09:54
lamontyou'll note build records for far more than the i386 one would expect for arch:all09:54
slangasekyes, a no-change rebuild of /what/?09:54
=== lamont looks a bit more
slangasekah, the udeb is arch: any09:55
lamontah. of debootstrap-udeb09:55
lamont--> debootstrap source09:55
lamontonce I get bind9 in, ubuntu-standard is installable from ports.u.c09:56
lamontOTOH, installing from ports.u.c is b0rked because of (so far) debootstrap09:56
slangaseklamont: ok, go for it (mutter binary udeb for arch: all deb grumble)09:57
lamontit appears to have been that way since antiquity, if that makes you feel any less sick09:57
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slytherinseb128: ping09:58
mdkeMithrandir: lamont: all working fine, thanks a lot for the help09:59
=== Hobbsee beat the traffic, for the most part.
lamontHobbsee: what TZ you in?10:00
seb128slytherin: if you let some context with the ping you have a higher chance to get a reply ;)10:01
slytherinseb128: Ok. Waiting for your take on bug 14533410:01
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145334 in libtheora "[Freeze Exception]  Please sync libtheora 1.0 beta 1 from Debian" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14533410:01
=== Mithrandir tickles Hobbsee, then runs off.
Hobbseelamont: sydney10:02
=== Hobbsee runs after Mithrandir, and stomps on his feet
lamontah.  makes sense then10:02
seb128slytherin: why my take? I don't know anything about libtheora10:02
lamontMithrandir: you should have had me hold Hobbsee down before you tickled.10:02
lamontthen your feet would hurt less10:02
slytherinseb128: You are the uploader, right? That is what Riddell said10:03
Mithrandirlamont: I run faster than her, so she's just _claiming_ to have stomped my feet.10:03
Hobbseelamont: i fight fairly hard when held - so, you may be putting yourself up for a lot of pain with that.10:03
Mithrandirlamont: also, have you ever tried stomping the feet of somebody who's running?10:03
lamontMithrandir: I find that tripping them first helps10:03
StevenKUsually, you end up either tripping, or tripping them10:03
slytherinseb128: That bug has some test packages I have created. Riddell has commented, but I am waiting for your comments too.10:03
seb128slytherin: I did the sync with Debian for whatever reason but I'm not maintaining the package10:03
lamontHobbsee: we call it ground-work at my dojo. :-)10:03
Hobbseelamont: dojo?10:04
StevenKPlace one goes to do karate10:04
StevenKWell, martial arts10:04
slytherinseb128: That complicates the matter. :-(10:04
Hobbseeoh right, yes10:04
seb128slytherin: BTW you can't sync this one Debian, there is Ubuntu changes required10:05
slytherinseb128: I will be very happy if you can find some time stating what changes. I will recreate the package accordingly. I am new to the packaging thing. :-D10:07
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seb128slytherin: I'll have a look today don't bother10:10
seb128slytherin: better to start on some universe packages for you ;)10:10
slytherinseb128: Ok. Thanks a ton.10:10
seb128you're welcome10:10
slytherinseb128: will do when hardy repos open up.10:10
slytherinseb128: I wanted to test theora beta, that is why I created the package. There seems to be no breakage and performance is good. :-)10:11
seb128do you notice any difference with the alpha version we have?10:12
slytherinperformance improvement (less CPU usage), encoding as well as decoding.10:14
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lamontMithrandir: feel like reviewing 8217810:20
lamontand oops.  my bad on 13141510:20
lamontboth are closed,  but the changelog is only in 8217810:20
lamont(I waited for the 'accepted' mail from debian.. see, I can be good... :-)10:21
Mithrandirlamont: did you time it for the 13-14-15 bug? :-P10:22
Mithrandirlamont: looks fine to me.10:22
lamontpure serendipity10:22
lamontsyncage, por favor10:22
Mithrandirfile sync bug, then. :-)10:22
slytherinMithrandir: Are you currently maintaining bluez-utils package?10:22
Mithrandirslytherin: yes10:23
lamontI was told that we should just use existing bugs for the sync requests10:23
lamontif you want a separate one, I'll file it10:23
Mithrandirlamont: just make sure the existing one says "plz sync" and sub ubuntu-archive then10:23
lamont82178 has that/.10:24
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lamontOTOH, I simply subscribed ubuntu-archive to 131415, because I suck10:24
slytherinMithrandir: I believe there is a problem with XSBC-Original-Maintainer field, currently it is specified as XSBC-Maintainer.10:25
lamonttwo bugs.  I had a 50-50 chance of hitting the right one when I subscribed u-a the first time...10:25
Mithrandirlamont: meh, syncing from incoming sucks, it'll be done friday.10:25
lamontMithrandir: but... my patience.....10:26
=== lamont considers a build1 upload, just to save Mithrandir's efforts
lamontOTOH, I'll be good and wait10:27
Mithrandirslytherin: thanks; fixed.10:27
lamontactually, it'll hit sid in about 10.5 hours-ish... it could be done Wed. :-)10:27
lamontfiling sync requests for things in incoming sucks, too, btw.10:28
StevenKFiling sync requests for things when packages.debian.org hasn't updated to have the new changelog sucks too.10:28
slytherinMithrandir: Also, the homepage url should be changed to http://www.bluez.org because the old sf.net url doesn't work anymore. :-D10:29
lamontStevenK: I think that's the more general case of the pain I was referring to10:29
=== lamont notices the clock
StevenKlamont: Yeah, but Incoming will sort itself out - in my experience packages.d.o sorts itself out much much slower10:29
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lamontStevenK: but the reason filing the sync req for incoming-stuff is painful is because p.d.o isn't curent10:30
lamontcurrent, even10:30
stgraberHas anyone be able to make crypted LVM to work on USB HDD with today Ubuntu alternate ? (even without splash, I see the kernel detecting the HDD, then nothing)10:31
stgraberhmm, after a while I have the initramfs prompt and "/dev/mapper/ubuntu-root does not exist" message :(10:32
Fujitsu_stgraber: A fix was uploaded about 11 hours ago.10:32
Fujitsu_It works, too.10:32
stgraberweird that it isn't in today daily then10:33
Fujitsu_stgraber: To boot it manually, just run `cryptsetup luksOpen /dev/sdaX something', and hit Ctrl+D.10:34
Fujitsu_Erm, hit Ctrl+D after entering the password and hitting enter, that is.10:34
=== Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-devel.log
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-devel: Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty, #ubuntu+1 for gutsy support | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Gutsy Beta released!
=== Topic (#ubuntu-devel): set by clem92 at Mon Oct 1 17:04:41 2007
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slytherinDoes nautilus really require libbeagle for compilation? Or does it work with libtracker?10:58
seb128slytherin: it requires libbeagle to work with beagle for users who decide to use this indexer10:59
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slytherinseb128: Thanks for info.11:01
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seb128slytherin: you're welcome11:01
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seb128slytherin: I think I'll not do the libtheora update, I'm not comfortable enough with the SVN changes to apply them and I don't want to upload a version that crashes on powerpc11:02
slytherinseb128: Will do it then if they release beta 2? I had a conversation on #theora yesterday and they said they will release beta 2 if that is important for Ubuntu.11:03
slytherinseb128: So ball is in our court. :-)11:03
seb128slytherin: that will need another approval from slangasek or pitti but would make things easier11:04
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slytherinseb128: I am not a developer. All I can do is help (read as 'push'). :-)11:05
Mithrandirlifeless: are you still seeing bug 79666?11:08
ubotuLaunchpad bug 79666 in bluez-utils "hcid crashdump" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/7966611:08
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Hobbseemorning Keybuk11:19
Keybukeurgh, that coffee was nasssty11:22
HobbseeKeybuk: drink coke.  fixes everything.11:24
Keybukexcept one's teeth11:24
Hobbseenot *that* much coke.  sheesh!11:24
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iwjmdke: How can I help ?11:42
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elkbuntuStevenK, hi :)12:06
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Riddellseb128: how come trackerd autostart is OnlyShowIn=GNOME;KDE;XFCE; ?12:22
Riddelland if I remove KDE from there, will it still start when someone runs whatever the tracker application is?12:22
seb128Riddell: it should start, yes, the autostart is only to automatically start it12:23
seb128I mean when starting your session12:23
seb128the issue is that people will not open the preference dialog to run it at every session12:23
Riddellseb128: so ok for me to remove KDE from that list?  seems daft to have two disk indexers running12:36
Riddellseb128: done12:40
Riddellseb128: New queue is almost empty but for packages I've touched, if you could look at those today it would be good12:40
seb128Riddell: ok, will do12:41
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seb128StevenK: hi, could you have a look to bug #148380?12:56
ubotuLaunchpad bug 148380 in gimp "Zooming to 150% makes image transparent.  New package please" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14838012:56
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seb128mdke: around?01:12
mdkeseb128: (In case I'm not around at the moment, please provide a bit of information about what you want and I will respond when I get back)01:12
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seb128mdke: nice autoreply ;) Should the "manpages" item be in the "advanced topics" with the info pages?01:13
Whoopiehi asac, could you have a look at bug 96260 (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager-openvpn/+bug/96260/comments/5)? this fixes one of my openvpn issues.01:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 96260 in network-manager-openvpn "n-m-openvpn: resolv.conf is erased if endpoint does not push DNS servers" [Low,Triaged] 01:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 96260 in network-manager-openvpn "n-m-openvpn: resolv.conf is erased if endpoint does not push DNS servers" [Low,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/9626001:13
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seb128mdke: oh, they are ;)01:15
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ScottKlamont: I'd love to see a patch for Bug 42463 too, but it's beyond me to produce it (you asked me about it ~ 5 hours ago)01:29
ubotuLaunchpad bug 42463 in bind9 "rndc hangs if lo iface is down, affects other packages" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/4246301:29
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ograScottK, i always wondererd if it wouldnt make sense to hardcode lo anyway01:32
ograand to not tear it down at all (wrt to your bug)01:33
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StevenKseb128: Right, the patch looks a little big.01:34
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StevenKseb128: I shall sort out a patch and a test build, and come up with a large image to test.01:34
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seb128carlos: could you look at bug #148509 opened by TomaszD?02:03
ubotuLaunchpad bug 148509 in language-pack-gnome-pl "The "Extra effects" string is not translated [gutsy] " [Low,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14850902:03
TomaszDthat's a weird one, yes02:04
carlosseb128: I guess that's gnome-control-center, right?02:04
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seb128carlos: yes02:05
TomaszDI was under the impression that a conflicting accelerator key might be the culprit, so I changed the string today02:05
seb128TomaszD: nothing check conflicts for you02:05
seb128TomaszD: if you have one you will just a bug when using the accelerator in the dialog02:05
TomaszDuhuh, so that couldn't be a problem then02:05
carlosTomaszD: please, send me the file /usr/share/locale-langpack/pl/LC_MESSAGES/gnome-control-center-2.0.mo (carlos.perello@canonical.com)02:05
seb128carlos: the french one doesn't have the strings so I think they have not been exported (yet)02:06
carlosseb128: as far as I know, gtk+ handles well duplicated accelerator keys02:06
carlosseb128: hmm, latest export was on Saturday night02:07
carlosaround UTC midnight02:07
seb128carlos: when has the current template being imported?02:07
carlosI'm checking it02:07
TomaszDcarlos, sent02:08
carlosseb128: 28-09-200702:09
carlosbefore latest update02:09
seb128carlos: looks like the export is buggy then02:09
carlosanyway, yesterday night we exported an update language pack so I guess today it should end in the archive (if pitti's scripts work well)02:09
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carlosseb128: aren't those strings Ubuntu specific?02:10
seb128carlos: they are, why?02:10
carlosseb128: well, I guess there is a delay between the .pot file being imported and people translating it02:11
seb128carlos: TomaszD said he translated those02:11
TomaszDyes, all in one go02:11
carlosTomaszD: when ?02:12
TomaszDumm, let me check02:12
carlosin fact...02:12
carlosupdate to latest language packs02:13
carlosthe ones exported yesterday are already in the archive02:13
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carlosunless you translated it today or late yesterday this update must include your translations02:13
TomaszDchecking now02:13
carloshmm, there is a .pot file pending of being imported into gnome-control-center02:14
TomaszDhmm update doesn't show language-pack-pl02:15
carlosso another possible problem is that the string was updated with that other upload to the archive and thus, Launchpad is still missing it02:15
TomaszDlast time I've updated was a few hours ago, there was a language-pack-pl and I've reloaded the session and then noticed that bug02:15
carlosTomaszD: I think is last thing I told you. I have the same problem in Spanish02:16
carlosso Launchpad is missing that concrete string02:17
carlosand thus, is not able to export it02:17
carlosor offer it for translation02:17
TomaszDbut it does offer it for translation02:17
carlosonce the import queue handles that pending .pot file the problem will be fixed02:17
TomaszDI've changed the string today to fix the accelerator key02:17
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carlosTomaszD: are you 100% sure is that exact string?02:17
TomaszD100% sure02:18
TomaszDE_xtra effects: blah blah blah02:18
carlosany comma, dots or accelerator changes will make it different02:18
seb128TomaszD: the string changed02:18
seb128it used to use computer02:18
seb128and not graphic-card02:18
carlosso that's it02:18
TomaszDah! so the template is out of date02:18
seb128"Requires faster computer."02:18
seb128"Requires faster graphics-card."02:18
seb128<carlos> hmm, there is a .pot file pending of being imported into gnome-control-center02:19
TomaszDthe changelog didn't mention any string changes, it's already late into the game02:19
carlosseb128: that's what I just said02:19
seb128I didn't know about it02:19
seb128MacSlow did the change while cleaning the glade changes02:19
seb128that was not documented in the changelog02:19
TomaszDoh well, will have to wait for the new template and then translate it, dang keeping up with all the changes is hard02:20
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carlosaren't we in string freeze?02:20
MacSlowseb128, ups... sorry :/02:21
seb128carlos: dunno, freezes are not announced and I didn't look at the schedule recently02:22
seb128carlos: let me look02:22
TomaszDthat's what I wanted to say. :]  no problem though, as long as I know these things...02:22
MacSlowseb128, ehm... wait... that is documented in the changelog02:22
carlosseb128: seems like we don't have a string freeze02:23
carloswe used to have one, though02:23
seb128MacSlow: ""trimmed down diff against capplets/appearance/data/appearance.glade02:23
seb128      (restricting it to just the "Visual Effects"-tab) in order to fix02:23
seb128      http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=480667""02:23
ubotuGnome bug 480667 in Appearance "gnome-appearance-properties doesn't resize the notebook widget" [Normal,Resolved: notgnome] 02:23
seb128MacSlow: that's the description you gave me02:24
MacSlowseb128, wasn't that enough or not verbose enough?02:24
seb128MacSlow: I though that you dropped the extra glade-3 changes to fix the resizing issue02:24
seb128MacSlow: not that you changed the wording of the options, which breaks translations02:24
seb128MacSlow: that's ok but we should really stop changing strings now or those items will not be translated for gutsy, it's already late for translators02:25
MacSlowseb128, ok02:25
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jdstrandpedro_: are the backtraces for bug #146330 helpful?02:27
ubotuLaunchpad bug 146330 in evolution "evolution addressbook crashes when selecting a 'Show' category" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14633002:27
Keybukjamiemcc: ah, just the man I was looking for :-)02:28
jamiemcchi Keybuk whats up?02:28
Keybukjamiemcc: trackerd is hammering my disk sufficiently hard that things like evolution are almost unresponsive02:28
Keybuktracker-status says it's Indexing02:28
Keybukbut none of the numbers in tracker-stats are increasing02:28
jamiemccwith latest version 0.6.3?02:29
Keybukand, most strangely, EvolutionEmails remainds at 002:29
Keybuk(and rebooted after install)02:29
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jamiemccKeybuk: do you use imap with evo?02:30
jamiemccor is t pop02:30
Keybukimap with local folder caching02:30
jamiemccKeybuk: is it wqriting to disk or constantly reading?02:31
Keybukhow would I tell that?02:31
Keybukstrace on the second thread is all lseek() and read()02:32
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Keybukfirst thread is in futex(02:32
jamiemccor check diskstats in proc02:32
Keybukmaster is in poll(02:32
pedro_jdstrand, looking at it now02:33
jdstrandpedro_: I believe the first is not useful02:33
jamiemccKeybuk: other thread? (there are 3)02:33
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Keybukthere are two02:34
Keybukwing-commander scott% ps Hax -L | grep track02:34
Keybuk 5770  5770 ?        SNl    0:02 trackerd02:34
Keybuk 5770  5912 ?        SNl    0:00 trackerd02:34
Keybuk 5770  5913 ?        DNl   16:23 trackerd02:34
Keybukwell, two threads and what I called the master :p02:34
pedro_jdstrand, not at all, the second one is useful, thanks02:35
jdstrandpedro_: ok great :)02:35
jamiemccKeybuk: second thread is constantly reading?02:35
Keybukthe reason I say it's weird that it's not counting evolution mails is that through strace, I've seen it looking at them02:35
Keybuklstat64("/home/scott/.evolution/mail/imap/scott@imap.netsplit.com/folders/Sent/779.", {st_mode=S_IFREG|0600, st_size=222301, ...}) = 002:35
Keybukaccess("/home/scott/.evolution/mail/imap/scott@imap.netsplit.com/folders/Sent/3586.", F_OK) = 002:35
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StevenKseb128: Gimp built, just about to test.02:36
Keybuk(I have just upgraded to 0.6.3, so I'm willing to believe it's just catching up with things)02:38
jamiemccKeybuk: it should write out every 200 emails indexed for imap02:38
Keybukthe numbers are going up now02:39
Keybukcould it have been rewriting its index or something?02:39
jamiemccKeybuk: 0.6.3 reindexes automatically02:39
Keybukevery time I login, or just once?02:40
jamiemcckeybuk: just once when upgrading from prior versions02:41
jamiemccKeybuk: new/deleted mail will be indexed at startup of course02:41
KeybukEvolutionEmails : 1909902:41
Keybukand climbing now02:41
Keybukso maybe it was just upgrade blues02:41
Keybukit's certainly noticing the mails now :)02:41
Keybukand the disk is less hammering02:41
jamiemccKeybuk: yeah or you had some bug file attachments02:41
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StevenKseb128: gimp patched, and built, and tested sucessfully. I'm uploading it now02:47
seb128StevenK: cool, thanks02:47
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StevenKTo be honest, the image being transparent was very cool.02:47
seb128StevenK: ;)02:49
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sorenmjg59: I see you disabled the reference to the pm-utils website in gnome-power-manager.. Would it perhaps make sense to collect the information from the gutsy users so we have everything ready and shiny for hardy?02:54
mjg59soren: Which information?02:56
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sorenmjg59: AFAIR they're redirected to that page in order to get them to gather information about what it would take to make their system suspend/resume properly?02:57
sorenIs this where you're going to point out that those instructions of course rely on the presence of pm-utils?02:57
sorenTHought so.02:57
sorenNever mind, then. :)02:57
mjg59I'm really hoping that we can migrate over to pm-utils by hardy02:58
sorenMe too.02:58
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sorenEspecially due to how easy it makes it for users to help discover all the quirks needed for their specific system.02:58
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Ngam I right in thinking that the difference between booting the livecd and booting it with safe graphics is that the latter uses vesa?03:28
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cjwatson_Ng: yes03:39
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cjwatsonNg: "safe graphics mode" translates to the xforcevesa command-line option03:39
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=== lamont notes that enigmail/dapper-proposed is doing the lather-rinse-repeat thing over missing/not-missing build-deps
Hobbseedear thunderbird, you are on crack!  please get *off* it.  kthxbye.04:17
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lamontHobbsee: what's thunderbird? :-)04:21
Hobbseelamont: :)(04:24
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lamontI _thought_ it claimed to be a mail reader04:25
lamontMUA, rather04:25
lamontbased on the depends, it's GUI-based, though, so it can't possibly really be an MUA.04:26
_MMA_cjwatson: re: Germinate. Thanx. We'll get right on it.04:26
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cjwatson_MMA_: np04:54
cjwatsonsorry it wasn't straightforward to do centrally04:54
_MMA_Yeah. Its ok. At least we have a solution.04:55
_MMA_We'll get the fix do today so it hopefully hits the next daily.04:56
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tkamppeterdoko, Riddell, ping04:58
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dokotkamppeter: pong05:00
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Keybukext3 so needs an "undo" feature05:22
Spadsso that you can restore your nethack save files05:22
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Spads^-- Enterprise-level feature.05:22
dobeyKeybuk: mc has undelete05:23
dobeymc the file manager that is05:23
dobeyi think you need to know the inode info though05:23
KeybukI was more thinking of "rm -rf /*" ... D'OH! UNDO! UNDO! UNDO!05:24
Spadsthat has some interesting security implications, of course05:24
StevenKIn terms of "Damn! So the Federal Police *can* see my kiddie porn!" ?05:25
StevenK... Or something.05:25
KeybukSpads: go I have a goatee?  am I wearing a Serenity t-shirt?05:25
dobeyStevenK: well, even if you write all 0s to the disk 3 times, they can still find stuff.05:25
jdongnothing like a massive network of LVM snapshots for fun05:26
SpadsKeybuk: You are zippy and I claim my non-sequitur.05:26
Keybuksecurity's all well and good, if you like that kind of thing05:26
Keybukbut I'd rather know what files I just accidentally deleted05:26
Keybukso I can put them back05:26
jdongdobey: I've been told that you can never really wipe a magnetic medium to the point of impossible recovery... just make it increasingly difficult.05:26
KeybukI'm kinda hoping it just got stuck in to evolution's cache before I hit ^C05:26
StevenKI think burning the disks platters would make it nigh on impossible.05:27
jdongdobey: and encryption/wiping is a complete nonissue when you've got criminal charges against you for something.... they'll jst slap on charges for failing to provide the secret key or destroying/concealing evidence anyway.... :)05:28
dobeyjdong: well, there is certainly a point. however, the number of times you have to write 0s to the disk to actually make everything be 0 again, can be pretty high05:28
=== jdong wonders if using reiser4 on /var/log counts as concealing or destroying evidence ;-)
dobeyjdong: there's a reason there are encryption export laws in the US05:28
dobeyjdong: "if the NSA can't hack it, it can't be legal."05:29
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jdongdobey: considering the urgency that they are switching to elliptic curve, I cannot help but suspect they've made significant headway on that.05:29
dobeyjdong: and if you're on the defendent end of a case with the US vs. You, and the NSA is poking through your data, you're already screwed.05:30
jdongdobey: agreed :)05:30
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tkamppeterdoko, riddell, another try, my box crashed and afterwards it fsck for half an hour.05:37
Riddelltkamppeter: doko ponged, or I'm here05:37
doko<tkamppeter> doko, Riddell, ping05:38
doko* RAOF_ (n=chris@123-243-65-41.tpgi.com.au) hat #ubuntu-devel betreten05:38
doko<doko> tkamppeter: pong05:38
tkamppeterRiddell, doko, can one of you upload my system-config-printer packages (see your mail), as pitti is celebrating the reunification of Germany05:38
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Riddelldoko: shall we fight for it?05:41
dokoRiddell: you won ;p05:41
jdstrandpitti, keescook, soren, and anyone else who wants to weigh in: I am close to having a fix for bug #119075 for dapper -> feisty05:42
ubotuLaunchpad bug 119075 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "Root password policy for mysql" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11907505:42
jdstrandpitti, keescook soren: but I am not sure how to let the user know that the change was made05:42
jdstrandwrt string changes05:43
tkamppeterRiddell, doko, can you also upload hplip which fixes bug 147369 (see mail)05:44
ubotuLaunchpad bug 147369 in hplip "MASTER: Printing via HPLIP does not work any more" [High,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14736905:44
jdstrandthe fix is based on soren's work, and will just generate a random password if the mysql password is determined to be blank.  There is also a mechanism in the init script to reset the password.05:44
jdstrandI could just document it in the REAMDE as well as the changelog, but wanted some feedback05:45
Riddelltkamppeter: system-config-printer uploaded05:46
sorenI'm really not all that keen on randomly setting passwords on people's existing installations.05:46
=== Hobbsee blames soren for all the bugs in ubuntu
sorenHobbsee: Again?05:47
Riddelltkamppeter: where is hplip?05:47
tkamppeterThanks, Riddell, this eliminates 9 bugs.05:47
=== Hobbsee assigns them all to soren, and tells him to fix them before next tuesday.
tkamppeterRiddell, you should have gotten another e-mail. Otherwise at http://www.linux-foundation.org/~till/tmp/ubuntu/gutsy/hplip/  (the usual place)05:47
jdstrandsoren: another option is to just detect the password is blank, and then alert the user whenever mysql is started until it is not blank05:49
cjwatsonSpads: nethack save files> so are you an evil savescummer? :P05:49
Spadscjwatson: no, but I was when I ran DR-DOS05:49
jdstrandsoren: but I don't think the intent was to ever have it be blank, so I think there is something to the argument that it should be changed.  It is a real vulnerability that just was never fixed05:50
jdstrandsoren: though I understand what you are saying05:50
sorenHobbsee: /me cries05:52
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Hobbseesoren: get to it :)05:53
sorenjdstrand: I like that idea much better (telling the user he should be setting a password real soon)05:53
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slangasekseb128, MacSlow: wrt string freeze, pitti reorganized things so that this is subsumed in the UserInterfaceFreeze -- so yes, /long/ since frozen06:01
slangasek(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze, Sep 13)06:01
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tkamppeterRiddell, also thanks for uploading hplip, eliminating a high-priority bug06:11
Riddellyou're welcome06:12
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mathiazkeescook: so for the apparmor parser revision number, what about creating just one package for the parser ?06:36
keescookthat could work -- having a totally separate source package for the old parser?06:36
mathiazkeescook: that way we'll have apparmor-parser-2.0.106:36
mathiazkeescook: yes. And then apparmor, apparmor-profiles with a revision number of 2.1+99306:37
keescookit might be more painful that just mod'ing the orig.tar.gz (since we'd need to put all the abstractions and man pages into the new one)06:37
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keescookoh, you mean literally _just_ the parser.06:37
mathiazkeescook: yes.06:37
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keescooklooks like the man page is the same between 2.1 and 2.0.106:38
keescookmathiaz: okay, yeah, I like this.  I think it's the cleanest solution.  We can add a Depends for it to the "apparmor" package.06:39
keescookand drop the parser from "apparmor".06:39
mathiazkeescook: yop. However, there is a correlation between the profiles and the parser.06:40
mathiazkeescook: the kernel provides a apparmor-modules-2.006:41
keescookmathiaz: how about this, instead of a new source package, why not just make a new orig for the current apparmor, and add the old parser tree to the root directory?06:41
keescookthen we can change the build to just build out of the old parser dir instead of the new one.06:41
mathiazkeescook: hum.. How about revision number then ?06:41
mathiazkeescook: the reason to create a separate source package for the parser is that we can have an appamor-parser-2.0.106:42
mathiazkeescook: if we don't really care about revision number, I would just drop the old parser code in the bzr tree.06:43
keescookwell, I was thinking about the profiles syntax version06:43
keescookmaybe that's the best way to deal with it.06:43
mathiazkeescook: OTOH the revision number would indicate that we have 2.1, but we really have 2.0.106:43
keescookjust drop the entire old parser in.06:43
keescookright, but the utils will still be 2.106:44
mathiazkeescook: that may confuse users that try to add profile.06:44
keescookeither way, we'll have confusion either the profiles won't be 2.1 style or the utils won't be the 2.0 versions.06:44
keescookI think the bulk of the interaction for people is with the utils, so we should try to keep those at 2.1.06:45
mathiazkeescook: yes. The later is less confusing.06:45
mathiazkeescook: hum... 2.1 has lots of new feature on the kernel side.06:45
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keescookmathiaz: yeah.06:46
Keybukwhy does pbuilder have to be run as root?06:46
mathiazkeescook: moreover I think that the 2.1 utils should work well with a 2.0 module.06:46
mathiazkeescook: the other way around doesn't work at all.06:46
mathiazkeescook: now I wonder if the utils would generate incompatible profiles.06:47
keescookmathiaz: oooh.  hmmm.  wait, no I think it builds them based off the hints from the kernel, which would do the right thing, right?06:47
mathiazkeescook: yes. I hope so.06:48
mathiazkeescook: but then there is the new file vs directory change.06:48
keescookmathiaz: hmm06:48
mathiazkeescook: I'll go through the changelogs to see if there is something related to it.06:49
=== keescook nods
mathiazkeescook: what would be needed to realease an updated version of apparmor with a revision number of 2.0.1 ?06:50
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cjwatsonmathiaz: either an epoch (but personally I'd be cautious about that), or else 2.1+993+really2.0.1-0ubuntu1 or similar06:50
keescookhow about a new orig.tar.gz, where the version is 1:2.0.1+2.1utils-0ubuntu1 ?06:51
keescookcjwatson: why "really" vs epoch?06:51
cjwatsonkeescook: if there's anyone else providing the package, you have to go round and persuade them to bump the epoch too06:52
cjwatsonbut if that's not the case here I guess it's not a big deal06:52
=== keescook nods
cjwatsoneither way, be careful about shlibs on libapparmor06:52
cjwatsondid libapparmor1 2.1 introduce any new symbols?06:53
keescookcjwatson: no, it's virtually a stub.  :)06:53
cjwatsonI notice the shlibs seem to just say "libapparmor1"06:53
cjwatsonok, you dodge that bullet then ...06:53
cjwatson(versioned shlibdeps break if you want to wind versions backwards)06:54
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mathiazhum... So if we choose to use 2.0.1 where should we start the the revision number ? 0ubuntu26 ?06:57
mathiaz(0ubuntu25 was the last one used for 2.0.1 - and feisty has 0ubuntu4)06:58
mathiazkeescook: hum... we could actually use 2.0.1+99306:59
cjwatsonyou should definitely never reuse a previous version number06:59
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mathiazcjwatson: 2.0.1+993 has never been used.07:00
mathiazcjwatson: feisty has 2.0.1+510.dfsg-0ubuntu407:00
mathiazcjwatson: and gutsy has 2.1+993-0ubuntu2:07:00
mathiazcjwatson: 2.0.1+993 has never been used.07:01
cjwatsonI wasn't saying it had been, it was just a general comment07:01
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Whoopiecjwatson: Hi, re bug 36964, it's just a driver to support these Ricoh SD/MMC reader? it doesn't work perfectly, but better then nothing.07:12
ubotuLaunchpad bug 36964 in linux-source-2.6.22 "[dapper]  Asus sd/mmc card reader not working" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/3696407:12
cjwatsonWhoopie: I'm not a member of the kernel team07:17
cjwatsonWhoopie: I'm just pointing out (as a member of the release team) that it's *two weeks* before release and thus not generally a good time to insert new untried code07:18
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cjwatsonthat could e.g. crash systems that previously worked fine even though the reader wasn't supported07:18
Whoopiecjwatson: ok07:18
jdongcjwatson: how's the unionfs thing look nowadays? Is it still random or is it resolved?07:19
slangasekstill random07:19
jdongdo we have any idea what might be causing it?07:19
slangasekidea perhaps, but no patches; kernel team is talking about rolling back to a previous version of unionfs07:20
cjwatson(which also involves rolling back apparmor)07:20
cjwatsonunionfs upstream is also looking at it07:21
keescookmathiaz: I think we should call it 2.0.1+993-0ubuntu3 for now, and if we need to roll back everything, use the "really" version suffix.07:26
mathiazkeescook: hum... 0ubuntu3 or 0ubuntu1 ?07:27
keescooker, sorry, I totally mis-typed07:27
mathiazkeescook: you'd really stick with 2.1 ?07:28
mathiazkeescook: I think it's misleading.07:29
keescookmathiaz: for now, yes.  once we figure out what combination of things will work, we can resolve the version number for real.07:29
mathiazkeescook: If you look at http://en.opensuse.org/AppArmor/Changes_AppArmor_2_1, half of what's written there is not supported.07:29
mathiazkeescook: ah ok. So just as a temporary solution, we use 2.1.07:29
mathiazkeescook: but for the final release we'll update the version to the correct number.07:30
keescookmathiaz: right.  I think we'll need to do a lot of testing first anyway.  version really is the least of our problems.  :)07:32
mathiazkeescook: ok. WFM.07:33
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alesandoes anybody have an idea if it is possible to ship a Ubuntu cd with a hardware product? do we need to ask canonical first?07:41
cprovseb128:  hi, who is driving apport atm ?07:47
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siretartKeybuk: can you please comment on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/upstart/+bug/62751/comments/91?07:48
ubotuLaunchpad bug 62751 in cryptsetup "Upstart doesn't activate luks volumes (also non luks) in cryptsetup" [High,Confirmed] 07:48
Keybuksiretart: what would you like the comment to say?07:49
siretartis env a built-in in busybox?07:50
Keybukwhich busybox?07:50
seb128cprov: "driving"?07:51
siretarterr, that one in initramfs07:51
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cjwatsonsiretart: no07:51
Keybuksiretart: yes07:51
seb128cprov: you mean hacking on it?07:51
cjwatsonsiretart: it's provided as a command. it's not a built-in07:51
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Keybukyeah, what cjwatson said :)07:51
cjwatsonthough, actually, it makes little difference, because the initramfs uses CONFIG_FEATURE_SH_STANDALONE_SHELL=y07:52
cprovseb128: not exactly ;) but I've received reports that apport crashes when it tries to report a bug in a PPA package.07:52
cjwatsonso in the initramfs Keybuk is right and it is effectively a builtin07:53
cjwatsonin busybox-udeb it's an external command07:53
Keybukit's a not-builtin builtin thingy07:53
seb128cprov: the program crash, the kernel intercept it and call apport07:53
cprovseb128: yes, I know, the problem is that apport reports the bug as if the PPA package was in ubuntu.07:54
cprovseb128: uhm, doesn't it already happens for packages installed from other repositories ?07:55
seb128cprov: it should not report bugs for non official packages, I'm not sure of what the logic to detect that is though, you want to speak to pitti he's the one writing apport ;)07:55
cprovseb128: yup, he's out, I will file a bug for now, thanks07:56
seb128cprov: alright, you're welcome, sorry for not being really useful there ;)07:57
seb128time for diner now, bbl07:57
cprovseb128: no worries, you did great ;)07:57
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slangasekiwj: bug #145231 seems to be waiting for info from you?08:03
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145231 in pidgin "cannot restart pidgin" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14523108:03
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mdkeiwj: still around?08:11
slangasekseb128: can I assign #145231 to you, so you can press iwj for details when you're both awake? :)08:16
bdmurraytkamppeter: my printer prints blank test pages until I change the printout mode08:18
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tkamppeter_bdmurray, which model, which PrintoutMode gives blank pages, which one works? Please file a Launchpad bug.08:33
tkamppeter_Riddell, doko, can you also upload cups-pdf and cupsys for me (see mail). Note that cups-pdf needs the new cupsys (AppArmor fix).08:33
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seb128slangasek: I'm assigned it to me, thanks for pointing it08:33
bdmurraytkamppeter_: Should the bug be filed about cupsys?08:34
bdmurrayOr some other package?08:34
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jdongis it safe in Ubuntu to isntall syslog-ng? (I see that it kicks off ubuntu-minimal)08:38
carlosnixternal: ping08:38
mdkeiwj: ok, I'll leave a message. I wanted to check something re: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFirefoxStartPageTranslation. In the last section, is it correct that where a language is already in the list of translatable locales, but a translation isn't yet shipped in (e.g.) ubuntu-docs, the translation can simply be added without applying the procedure there? (example, en_GB)08:39
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tkamppeter_bdmurray, it should be filed against the driver you are using, usually HPLIP for HPs, Gutenprint for most Epsons, ... See in system-config-printer which driver is used for your printer.08:41
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Keybukoh, that's right, before I got distracted by starting another round of daily tests, I was replying to an e-mail08:42
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slangasekbug #125220 calls for adding default iocharset options to cdrom mounting; does it make sense for this to be a kernel default instead?08:57
ubotuLaunchpad bug 125220 in hal "Question symbols (????) in filenames on CD" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12522008:57
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slangasekAmaranth: is there still more info you're waiting for on bug #133609?09:07
ubotuLaunchpad bug 133609 in compiz "No window decorations on compiz session statup" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13360909:07
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minghuaslangasek: Does the kernel iocharset setting differentiate different filesystems?09:13
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Amaranthslangasek: that bug should be closed, i guess09:13
minghuaActually, I'm pretty sure some of them don't, NTFS for example.09:14
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slangasekI'm pretty sure ntfs supports iocharset=utf8, you just don't want to use it because it interferes with case-insensitivity09:35
slangasekat least that's the case for vfat09:36
slangasekthough hmm, I guess I don't know if ntfs-3g supports it09:36
jdongslangasek: apparently you can do it but windows will hate your guts....09:36
jdongat least that's the gist I've heard09:36
slangaseker, why would that be? iocharset only controls how the filenames are exposed upwards, not how they're represented on disk09:36
ion_If an NTFS partition is mounted with a non-unicode charset and there are filenames in another encoding than the iocharset, they are hidden entirely.09:39
slangasekwell, that's one instance of the same general problem of 12522009:42
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slangaseki.e., a problem when iocharset != utf809:43
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nixternalcarlos: pong?10:02
minghuaslangasek: Last time I checked, the option for NTFS is "utf8", not "iocharset=utf8".10:03
minghuavfat, on the other hand, uses "iocharset=utf8"10:04
carlosnixternal: hi10:04
minghuaI also vaguely remember that there were some changes from kernel 2.4 to 2.6.10:04
carlosnixternal: I wonder whether I should approve/reject the kubuntu/khelpdesktop/kubuntu/po/systemdocs.pot  template for kubuntu-docs package in Launchpad10:05
carlosnixternal: mdke told me I should ask you10:05
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lamontg-p-m isn't iit (unless it's ignoring gconf)10:07
nixternalit needs to be translated...should I just send the po file to the list maybe?10:07
nixternalcarlos: ^^10:07
carlosnixternal: I was not sure whether it was a mistake or not so it was not yet approved10:08
carlosnixternal: it should be available in Launchpad in next minutes10:08
cjwatsonslangasek: with ntfs-3g, it's supposed to use the locale instead10:09
cjwatsoni.e. it does character set interpretation based on the locale of the ntfs-3g process, which is typically inherited from /etc/default/locale10:09
nixternalcarlos: you rock! if we ever meet, remind me that I owe you a drink of your choice :)10:10
cjwatsonthe old utf8, iocharset=utf8, nls=utf8, etc. options are ignored10:10
carlosnixternal: no need for that, but thanks ;-)10:10
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jdstrandslangasek: I am working on fixes for bug #119075 for dapper -> gutsy.  dapper -> feisty will be handled simply by informing the user that the root account does not have a password, and provide a means to set it.10:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 119075 in mysql-dfsg-5.0 "Root password policy for mysql" [High,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/11907510:11
jdstrandslangasek: I noticed your last comment, and I can very easily set a random password for gutsy10:12
jdstrandslangasek: with the same mechanism for changing it that I used in dapper -> feisty10:12
carlosnixternal: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/kubuntu-docs/+pots/systemdocs10:12
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jdstrandslangasek: what do you think?10:12
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carlosnixternal: hmm, that's a .desktop file...10:13
jdstrandslangasek: I can also just as easily use the same 'fix' for gutsy as for the other releases10:13
carlosnixternal: did you add the needed tag to get updates from language packs?10:13
nixternalcarlos: dunno if I did or not...I am not 100% familiar with getting those done...I followed a tutorial somewhere I think10:14
nixternalbut, since it doesn't sound like something I did, then I would have to say no10:14
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carlosAll .desktop and .directory files should have an: X-Ubuntu-Gettext-Domain=systemdocs line (although this should be kdesytemdocs so it's not so generic, maybe kubuntusystemdocs...10:14
carlosnixternal: with that, you will get translation updates even after release time10:15
nixternalOK, don't know if it is to late to work that out now, if not I will fix it in trunk so that gets straightened out for hardy10:16
carloswell, not you, but Kubuntu users10:16
carlosnixternal: if you change the translationdomain (the filename for that template, tell me it, I must change it in Launchpad too)10:17
nixternalI could go ahead and fix that, in our repos and then reupload if that is cool?10:17
Keybukcjwatson: I've tested every combination I can think of, and I cannot replicate #13923010:17
carlosnixternal: yeah, that's it10:17
nixternalcarlos: I will take a look at it here in a bit..I am finishing up some stuff here before my lovely evening class on "how to make a myspace website" :) just kidding, but it is javascript, so that is close enough :)10:17
cjwatsonKeybuk: get back to the submitter for details?10:19
Keybukcjwatson: yup, am doing so; am going to remove the milestone as well since it works out of the box10:19
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lamontmdz: you around/10:22
Keybukcjwatson: the other person who reported it definitely has the "/var/run and /var/lock don't exist on the root filesystem" bug10:25
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Keybuk(which we have a cunning hack for in gutsy)10:29
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Kopfgeldjaegeri cant find the bug about encryption@install (alternate cd, gutsy).. can somebody give me the bug number (maybe bookmarked?)10:31
Kopfgeldjaegerfound it, its #14439010:34
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Kopfgeldjaegergood night10:48
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glatzorpign bryce10:58
bryceheya glatzor10:59
glatzorbryce: hello, have you made a decision about the temporarily fail safe mode?10:59
bryceyeah, I've got a new xorg package that I'm testing now11:00
bryceI expect to have it uploaded today11:00
mjg59bryce: Any chance you can change dexconf a touch?11:01
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mjg59bryce: Rather than generating  "HorizScrollDelta" "0" it ought to be "HorizEdgeScroll" "0"11:02
mjg59Otherwise there's no sane way to enable edge scrolling11:02
glatzorbryce: would you then also upload displayconfig-gtk?11:02
brycemjg59: sure I can put that change in11:03
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glatzorbryce: should I apply the patch, that I sent you this morning?11:03
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mjg59bryce: Sweet, thanks11:04
slangasekjdstrand: in discussion, the conclusion was that setting a random password is a bad idea because it's non-obvious to users how to recover access11:04
bryceglatzor: yes please do11:04
bryceglatzor: I've not had a chance to test that patch myself, but it looks good11:05
lamontslangasek: now that it's in sid... could you sync bind9 for bug 82178 and bug 131415?  kthxbye11:05
ubotuLaunchpad bug 82178 in bind9 "idnconv manual page exists, but no binary" [Low,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8217811:05
ubotuLaunchpad bug 131415 in bind9 "part of nslookup manpage not visible" [Undecided,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13141511:05
jdstrandslangasek: agreed, but I was thinking I'd let them know via debconf how to change it11:06
slangasekjdstrand: personally I don't think that's very user-friendly11:06
jdstrandslangasek: ala 'if you press Enter, a random password will be generated.  you can reset this by..."11:06
jdstrandslangasek: that's cool.  I'm fine with the high priority message.  pre-gutsy it was medium and hidden11:07
lamontslangasek: would you be annoyed if the ppc, amd64, and sparc buildds went manual mode for a little bit?11:07
lamontI'll assume that's a "YES"11:07
jdstrandslangasek: just thinking out-loud basically11:08
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glatzorbryce: done. you can now upload it11:08
lamontslangasek: details for the bind9 sync are in 8217811:08
bryceglatzor: ok11:08
slangaseklamont: bind9: looking then11:09
slangaseklamont: on manual: is this the bootstrappery you were discussing with cjwatson earlier?11:09
bryceglatzor: actually I've not rolled a displayconfig-gtk package before - is there a make dist-like procedure, or do we just make a snapshot?11:09
lamontturns out that I have to add a key to the real root on the buildd for the bootstrappery to not kill all builds that happen with that chroot there...  so my choices are to manually make everything wait on starting the builds of mlton, or go add the &*(^ key on all of the affected architecture buildds11:10
glatzorbryce: Good question. I have never uploaded one :)11:10
lamontso, I'll go do the add-it-everywhere thing... I was just kicking a little on the way down11:10
brycehmm; perhaps we should ask mvo to do it this time, and write down the process for us?  ;-)11:11
glatzorbryce: you could use bzr bd --source11:11
slangaseklamont: so the fix for 82178 is to drop the manpage?11:11
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lamontor rather, to be specific about what man pages we deliver, instead of delivering all of man111:12
slangasekgood, I like it when packages get smaller11:12
lamontotherwise, it's typo fixes in manpages and that one fix at the very bottom, which is low-risk11:13
lamont(changes from call something that might assert to "if (this condition that's perfectly OK but will cause an assert does not exist) { call }11:14
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slangaseklamont: the sync howto isn't working for me, and I'm not keen to poke things randomly to figure out why11:18
lamontslangasek: you are a wise man.11:21
lamontso... should I just upload -2build1 then?11:22
slangasekif you like11:22
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cjwatsonlamont: hang on11:26
cjwatsonslangasek: what's going wrong?11:26
lamontcjwatson: it's about an hour from now before I get to that step11:26
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cjwatsonlamont: you don't need the chroots prodded?11:27
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lamontcjwatson: I was gonna have cprov do that once he's back.  Unless you want to do it now11:29
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cjwatsonlamont: no, I'm off to bed in a moment11:30
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lamontcjwatson: so I have things were I'm nearly certain that I won't break anything except maybe PPA builds on virtual machines during the time between pushing the bootstrap-enabled beast, and the bootstrap-disabled beast11:32
lamonton the bright side, I can retry stuff if I do break it. :-(11:32
cjwatsonlamont: which version of bind9 were you trying to get bind9 to sync?11:32
cjwatsoner, "were you trying to get slangasek to sync"11:32
lamontoh.  bind9_1:9.4.1-P1-211:33
cjwatsonwhere is that?11:33
lamontshould be in sid.11:33
cjwatson     bind9 | 1:9.4.1-P1-1 |      unstable | source, alpha, amd64, arm, hppa, hurd-i386, i386, ia64, m68k, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390, sparc11:33
cjwatsonoh, only JUST landed in sid11:33
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cjwatsonif you give things a chance to propagate, it'll be syncable just fine ...11:34
lamontbind9_9.4.1-P1-2.dsc2007-Oct-03 05:02:010.8Kapplication/octet-stream11:34
lamontah, ok11:34
lamontso it needs rmadison to be done and aware of the upload...11:34
lamontI suppose we can forgive a few hours more..11:34
cjwatsonit needs whatever mirror we're using to have it11:34
cjwatsonp.s. would help if my link to drescher would stay up11:35
cjwatsonslangasek: workaround:11:36
cjwatsonslangasek: wget the .dsc and .diff.gz from wherever, maybe best grab the .orig.tar.gz for good measure, into ~lp_archive/syncs/11:36
cjwatsonslangasek: dpkg-scansources > Debian_incoming_main_Sources11:36
cjwatsoner, dpkg-scansources . /dev/null > Debian_incoming_main_Sources11:36
cjwatsonsync-source -b lamont -S incoming bind911:36
cjwatsonflush-syncs # if that worked11:36
cjwatsonmy link to drescher is too flaky to attempt it at the moment, and it's bedtime11:37
cjwatsonoh, and probably sync-source.py not sync-source11:37
bryceelmo: deb with patch is up + caveats; see bug 8607211:39
ubotuLaunchpad bug 86072 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "ATI ES1000 515e not recognized" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/8607211:39
slangasekcjwatson: the part where I got stuck was with sync-source not being executable? :)11:40
cjwatsonslangasek: yeah, it's apparently sync-source.py this week11:40
cjwatsonsync-source was our forked version which is clearly not kosher at the moment11:41
cjwatsonbut looks like sync-source.py ought to work well enough11:41
cjwatsonI didn't know about the non-executability until I tried it - when I have time I'll look into the diff and merge11:41
cjwatsonnight folks11:41
slangasekheh, ok11:41
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thullyhi - I was on this channel last night regarding bug 137598 - a regression from Feisty.  Anyway, I do have a patch for that, and it is attached to the bug report (diff against the source file in question).11:44
ubotuLaunchpad bug 137598 in gnome-power-manager "Screen brightness resets to default (maximum) on idle with AC plugged in" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/13759811:44
lamontslangasek: later, I'll want you to sync mlton from sid.  I think that was the motu decision11:45
thullyThe patch may not be the prettiest in the world (basically, what it does is check the appropriate "idle_dim" setting in the idle callback and doesn't call the brightness adjust function if it isn't set)11:48
thullyOne may want to stop the callback from happening altogether, but that involves gscreensaver and may not be desirable (in case other things are being done on idle)11:49
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thullyAnyway, I hope the devs can look at Ubuntizing this fix for the Gutsy release.  I think it would look bad to have this kind of bug (screen brightness adjusting on idle, no matter what the setting is) in Gutsy final...11:51
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thullyI've been taking a peek at Ubuntu-related code, and I must say I've noticed an incredible amount of flaws in gnome-power-manager.  This one is quite glaring, but I've also stumbled upon another regression in 6354311:57
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thullyI posted a patch for that in the bug report, but it still will change the brightness on exiting idle - even if the brightness is < the idle brightness on idle...11:59
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thullyg-p-m 2.18 was fine in all these respects - it's just that g-p-m 2.20 has apparently fscked up the handling of idle and brightness with a rewrite of most of the relevant code...12:00
Keybukthully: 63543 is a pretty old bug, so has been present for at least one release12:08
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thullyactually, I just reopened bug 63543 - it wasn't in Feisty, but is back in Gutsy since they rewrote most of the relevant code in g-p-m12:09
ubotuLaunchpad bug 63543 in gnome-power-manager "Error in automatic diminuition of brightness when idle" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/6354312:09
Keybukthully: have you talked to hughsie about your patches?12:09
thullyno - I guess I probably should - do I need to file upstream bug reports first?12:09
Keybukif it's the upstream code that's regressed, it's probably better to talk directly to him12:10
Keybuksince it seems like you know what you're talking about12:10
Keybukand get it fixed upstream :)12:10
thullyI think so, but I know there is a UVF in Gutsy that would seem to block said changes from being integrated from upstream12:10
KeybukGNOME is in the same UVF right now :)12:11
Keybukthough if hughsie acks the patches, they're much more likely to be applied12:12
Keybuksince we'll know they're going upstream and can be dropped for our next release12:12
kylemwin 3412:12
Keybuklose 8912:13
elmodraw 2312:13
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pwnguini do wish i could figure out why screen blanking doesn't work on nvidia12:16
Keybukpwnguin: binary driver or free one?12:16
pwnguinrather, it does, but the backlight's still on =/12:16
pwnguinbinary i think12:16
pwnguini remember one was affected and the other wasnt12:17
lamontslangasek: so does that mean that bind9 didn't get synced and I should upload, or that it's inbound and I should STFU and wait like a good little boy?12:17
Keybukpwnguin: we can fix one, but not the other12:17
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pwnguinKeybuk: vbetool works, but not xset12:17
lamontKeybuk: any clues on why my backlight dims on battery, even though g-p-m has been told to 1) not dim, and 2) 100% is a good dimlevel, via gconf-editor?12:18
Keybuklamont: sodomy non sapiens12:18
lamontis ATI M56P12:18
KeybukI know next to nothing about g-p-m12:18
slangaseklamont: my attention drifted elsewhere, if you want to upload go ahead otherwise I'll look at it later on (at a point where the mirrors should have synced)12:19
Keybuklamont: I didn't even know until just now that it does stuff with brightness12:19
Keybukso I'm now curious whether it's the cause of my bug that the Dell's light sensor doesn't seem to work anymore12:19
lamontslangasek: well, as long as it's done before fabbione wakes up in about 7 hours12:19
lamontI have it spewing debug crap on my laptop for me to stare at later12:20
lamonthrm... with g-p-m _NOT_ running, unplugging the AC still dims backlight... I think that's pretty conclusive that gpm is not to blame.12:21
Keybukthat's probably BIOS :)12:21
Keybukunplug power, increase brightness, plug power back in12:21
lamonthow do I increase brightness, I wonder...12:21
KeybukFn+Something? :P12:22
pwnguinlamont: maybe there's an option in BIOS to twiddle12:22
Ngsomething keeps resetting my brightness to 100%, which I'd assumed was g-p-m12:22
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Keybukgpm doesn't seem to be involved in brightness on my laptop at all12:22
lamont(switch to something other than vt7, and use FN brightness up)12:22
pwnguintheres gpm and the backend12:23
mjg59Keybuk: I suspect your Dell is one generation too old12:23
Trewasbrightness is some kind of a strobo now that intel driver always sets it to maximum with anything interesting happening (any xvideo/opengl app starting, going to console etc) together with g-p-m or something munging it when idling :)12:24
mjg59Yeah, I've got a patch for that12:24
Keybukmjg59: it's ICH712:24
mjg59Keybuk: It's BIOS-dependent, not chipset dependent12:24
Keybukcould be then12:24
Keybukthough it's weird the sensor has stopped working12:24
pwnguinwhat defines idle for the g-p-m "dim display on idle" feature? cuz id really like to turn that higher =/12:25
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thullypwnguin: I think idle is your screensaver idle setting12:29
Keybuk(I blame keithp :p)12:29
thullyRegarding the g-p-m idle situation, it has really seemed quite ugly in 2.20 - I have seen brightness randomly increase in many places...12:30
pwnguinthully: it says 15 minutes12:30
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pwnguinfeels closer to 15 seconds12:30
thullypwnguin: I guess I was wrong, it's a gconf key12:31
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thullygconf-editor, and then open apps/gnome-power-manager/backlight12:32
pwnguin30 seconds12:33
pwnguinsounds about right. any documentation on what this dpms_method_foo does?12:33
Keybukalmost certainly in the schema12:33
Keybuk("click on it")12:33
pwnguinwell, it's "default"12:34
thullyRegarding the dim on battery despite this being disabled, I just found the problem in the code...12:34
pwnguincapitol work12:34
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