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=== Topic for #ubuntu-meeting: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Oct 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu QA Team | 05 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team
=== Topic (#ubuntu-meeting): set by ubotu at Wed Oct 3 06:49:28 2007
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flint@schedule new york01:07
ubotuSchedule for America/New_York: 03 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu QA Team | 05 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team01:07
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Ziroda1@schedule Singapore01:08
ubotuSchedule for Asia/Singapore: 04 Oct 00:00: Ubuntu QA Team | 06 Oct 04:00: MOTU | 07 Oct 01:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 20:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 00:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 23:00: Community Development Team01:08
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=== RichEd waves
RichEdhi stgraber02:02
RichEdogra: you around ?02:02
RichEdgreat ... kick off with technical then02:02
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ograwell, last milestone was beta, which we achieved alst week but with some major bugs (bug 145514 and bug 121547)02:03
ubotuLaunchpad bug 145514 in ltsp "interface nonexistent in the installer for ssh key creation" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14551402:03
ubotuLaunchpad bug 121547 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LTSP chroot building progressbar in d-i hangs" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12154702:03
ograi'm currently working on both of them but it will likely eat up my whole week (and probably even the weekend)02:04
ograedubuntu/ubuntu edu participated in an event of the EU project "educonlinux" where we do technical consulting for creating a content management server02:05
ogra(based on edubuntu)02:05
ograthe latest artwork package contains the new wallpaper ( RichEd, any news about a widescreen variant here ?)02:06
RichEdi've sent the mail ... will check again with her tomorrow02:06
RichEdjust got this mail from colin:02:06
RichEdMoving milestone forward. (Is this fixable for 7.10 at this point, given02:06
RichEdEdubuntu's CD space issues?)02:06
RichEd** Changed in: edubuntu-meta (Ubuntu)02:06
RichEd       Target: ubuntu-7.10-beta => ubuntu-7.10-rc02:06
ograi need to update the credits to mention jill in that package still but was waiting to do so in case we get any changes02:06
ograRichEd, for what is the mail ?02:07
ogracjwatson, ??02:07
RichEdyep cjwatson asked the question: Is this fixable for 7.10 at this point, given Edubuntu's CD space issues?02:08
ograon which bug (or whatever ) did he ask that ?=02:08
ograi see the question and also the changed status ...02:08
RichEdlet me query him .. or ask him to join02:08
ograbut there is no context :)02:08
cjwatsonwhy am I being asked a question?02:08
cjwatsonit is trivial and obvious02:08
cjwatsonread the bug02:08
ograwhich one ?02:08
=== ogra sighs
cjwatsonI don't know, I'm doing a pass over all bugs milestoned for beta02:09
cjwatsonsince, er, the beta is kind of out02:09
cjwatsonI closed the window with that bug in it ages ago :)02:09
ograi was asking RichEd02:09
cjwatsonwhy don't you look at the ubuntu-7.10-rc milestone list ...02:09
ograjust a changed status with some general text doesnt help :)02:09
cjwatsonbtw, if I get asked on IRC for every bug I touch, I'll never get anything done, so I would like to discourage this02:10
cjwatsonthe release team needs to be able to make mass changes to bugs without being hauled into meetings about it :)02:10
RichEdcjwatson: apologies ... thought it would be quicker than a email exchange02:10
cjwatsonit doesn't need any further discussion with me02:11
ograno, indeed02:11
cjwatsonyou guys decide if it's fixable, and remove the milestone if it isn't02:11
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=== ogra found bug 128236
ubotuLaunchpad bug 128236 in edubuntu-meta "Edubuntu (Feisty) install uses uncomplete Chinese font" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12823602:17
ograi'll have to measure the size ... we will have some extra space on final i'm sure ... currently ubuntu drops a big part of openoffice, we dont02:18
ograif there is a final decision for ubuntu we'll move with them here which in any case will gain us some space02:18
ograbut i cant tell yet if thats sufficient for the chinese stuff02:19
ogranext milestone will be RC02:20
ograall three RC bugs we have atm are listed above and my main focus until RC will be to fix them02:20
ograbeyond that i'll indeed fix any bugs i stumble over during my work ;)02:21
ograassistance would be needed with CD testing all the time ....02:21
ograwell, thats about it, any questions02:22
ogradoesnt seem like ...02:23
ograRichEd, anything from you ?02:23
RichEdhi ... sorry nope02:26
ograanyone else ?02:27
ogragoing once02:27
ogragoing twice02:27
ograthanks all02:27
RichEdthanks ogra02:27
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flintogra, I am very interested in staying in touch with the development process.  See you in two weeks "same bat time, same bat channel"03:02
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zul@schedule montreal03:05
ubotuSchedule for America/Montreal: 03 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu QA Team | 05 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team03:05
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bdmurrayhello heno_06:02
=== pedro_ waves
heno_hello bdmurray, pedro_06:02
pedro_hey there :-)06:02
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liwI'm here! (now that I realize this place isn't called #ubuntu-meetingS)06:04
henoah, sorry :)06:04
liwnah, my very own mistake06:04
henowelcome all to the first Ubuntu QA IRC meeting06:04
heno(at least I think so)06:05
henoWe have an agenda here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam06:05
henothe QA devel sprint was very productive IMO: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings/OsloSprint06:06
henolots to do for the Hardy cycle and to discuss at UDS06:06
henobdmurray: has sent me some ideas for UDS topics. more input is welcome06:07
heno(though that's next topic)06:08
liwI obviously agree that it was a productive meeting (since I was there), and I don't really have anything to add right now that isn't on the OsloSprint page06:10
henoany questions/comments on the sprint topics?06:10
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pedro_yep, can be add the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Stats to be discussed there also?06:10
henook, so Action: heno to distill UDS discussion topics from the sprint notes and propose them for scheduling06:11
liwpedro_, I think that looks like a perfect thing to include in the "Bug statistics" topic at UDS06:12
pedro_liw, ok great06:12
stgraberAbout the bug stats part, do we still agree that moving them inside the QA-Website/Tracker would be the way to go to avoid having them hosted on people.u.c, then fetched by qa.ubuntu.com and then shown (as we have python cron scripts for qa.stgraber.org anyway) ?06:12
bdmurrayPart of the reason reports are run on p.u.c is the queries run much faster there06:13
henostgraber: I think you, bdmurray and others should discuss this in detail at UDS06:13
henobdmurray: but we'll move the qa tracker to the DC *real soon now*06:14
stgraberbdmurray: hmm, should be the same once we have qa.stgraber.org moved to qa.ubuntu.com and inside Canonical DC no ?06:14
henothe plan is this week06:14
bdmurrayAh, I did not know this.  So many loops to stay in.06:14
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henohi davmor2!06:15
bdmurrayWell, that'd be cool.06:15
stgraberdavmor2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam06:15
henosorry, this first meeting has been poorly announced06:16
zuloh helllo06:16
henodavmor2: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam06:16
davmor2where we up to?06:18
henowrapping up point two;06:18
henoif anyone has suggestions for UDS topics, please email them to me by tomorrow06:19
stgraberheno: IIRC I started a spec about the Tracker a while ago and even proposed it for Boston, maybe you'd like to have a look at it to update or delete it (if too much out of date)06:19
heno(there will also be the opportunity to suggest topics at UDS but these are not guaranteed a slot)06:19
henostgraber: will do, I'm sure it can be adjusted to suit where we are at now06:20
davmor2will the topics selected be made available any where?06:21
henodavmor2: Matt, Colin and Scott will have a manual scheduling session on monday in London and will post the results of that06:22
davmor2okay cool06:23
heno(using sticky notes and lots of floor space I suspect)06:23
henoTopic #3 RC bugs06:23
henois the link06:23
bdmurrayI hate the format of that list06:24
henothe release team is on top of this I believe, but we may/should have some input06:24
henobdmurray: anything come up in your study of iso-testing bugs?06:25
bdmurrayNo, nothing new other than that printing bug that Till is on top of06:25
henoOk, I'll start working through the list as well as one of my next items06:26
henowe should look at the completely untriaged bugs there especially06:27
bdmurrayI believe the kernel freeze is tomorrow so I'll be focusing on those06:27
henosome have no priority setting06:27
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henook, cool06:27
henoshould we try to test for recently fixed bugs during next weeks ISO testing?06:28
henowhat's an easy way to produce a list of the previously milestoned, now fixed bugs?06:29
bdmurrayYeah, that is what I was trying to say in one of my e-mails.06:29
henothe list may quickly become too long for manual testing06:29
bdmurrayOr similar to what I was mentioning, I'll see if I can whip a query06:30
bdmurraywhip up even06:30
davmor2one way maybe to have the manual testers select bugs in a similar fashion as the y do iso's06:31
henoI guess these things should be folded into the test cases, but we don't really want to change those at every milestone either06:32
bdmurrayMaybe test cases for specific bug numbers?06:32
henocould we pick out top 10 such bugs perhaps?06:32
bdmurrayThat can be added and removed to the general cases06:33
henoyou shouldn't need to confirm that it's fixed on every single ISO though06:33
henolike your LiveCD hibernate example06:33
henotesting it on one should be enough06:34
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henowe could make it a separate 'test case'06:35
henoor a wiki page with a table to check off06:35
heno(going low-tech again)06:35
davmor2could the list not become interactive?  ie the ability to tick box for pass fail?06:35
henoI agree, though it's probably too late for Gutsy for that06:36
henoI suggest we add this to a Hardy spec, and perhaps make an informal effort for Gutsy06:37
davmor2heno if that is the case then could we not use the irc channel for it?06:37
henobdmurray, pedro_: can you propose a few bug #s we should verify?06:38
pedro_heno, sure will do it06:38
henodavmor2: combined with a list somewhere, sure06:38
bdmurraysure, where shall we put them? in the Testing name space?06:38
henoTesting/FixesToVerify ?06:39
davmor2heno: where ever it is make sure it is announced other wise it won't get used06:40
bdmurrayheno: That works for me06:41
henogood point. let's add a few items and then ask the distro team to contribute more06:41
henoTopic #4: QA team wiki pages06:42
henothere is some name space confusion between the ubuntu-qa LP team and the more general bugsquad+testing = QA team06:43
henois that a problem?06:43
liwas a newbie I'll testify that I'm confused :)06:43
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davmor2what's the difference between ubuntu-qa and qa team?06:43
henoubuntu-qa is a restricted Launchpad team, bugsquad with some extra powers06:44
henomainly setting the priority of bugs06:44
henobut at the same time we want to build and active team around general QA in Ubuntu06:45
henoand the name sort of gives itself06:45
bdmurrayRight, just because you can not set the priority does not mean you are not part of the QA effort06:45
henoshould ubuntu-qa be changed to bugsquad++ ? :)06:45
davmor2it may be better for the lp team to lose the qa title then as it has no really reference to QA as it will undoubtedly be a smaller team than testing+bug squuad06:46
henoor should testing and other QA work be a natural way to apply for the ubuntu-qa LP team?06:46
bdmurrayI'd agree that the ubuntu qa team could use a renaming to avoid confusion but I don't have a good idea of to what06:47
henohow diruptive is changing the name of that well-established LP team though?06:47
davmor2heno how big is the team?06:48
liwI'd assume it'd be less disruptive than continually having to explain things, since it's a one-time change06:48
henohm, yeah06:48
henodavmor2: 50-60?06:48
bdmurrayI think there is a lot of documentation that talks about the QA name though06:48
henobut it also has core-dev and motu as indirect members06:49
liwbdmurray, true, but it should mostly be in the wiki and searchable, surely?06:49
davmor2heno how big is testing + bug squad?06:49
henonot sure if that causes a problem06:49
bdmurrayliw: right for the most part.  I think kiko's recent bug status write-up mentioned the QA name specifically though06:50
henobugsquad is 837 :)06:50
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bdmurrayI still think it is a good idea though06:50
henowe probably need to raise this for discussion on the bugsquad and devel-discuss lists06:51
davmor2how are you going to umbrella the qa team?  If it will be QA testing QA bug squad then could the lp team not just be added to the bug squad side of things?06:51
davmor2That wat everything would fall under the QATeam umbrella06:53
henothe current ubuntu-qa LP team is restricted with good reason06:53
henoso that would need to be maintained06:53
henohowever we do it06:53
davmor2but it would still remain restricted06:53
henocurrently we don't have an Ubuntu QA Team LP team06:54
henowe may not need one either06:54
henoanyway let's leave the wiki pages as they are for now and raise this on the lists06:55
henoI'm sure many people will want to have a say in this :)06:56
bdmurrayI think we should have a suggestion for an alternative name before opening the discussion06:56
bdmurrayThe name for the team that sets bug priority06:56
henothat would help, I agree06:56
davmor2I'm with bdmurray06:56
henoubuntu-triage, ubuntu-bugexperts ...06:57
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liwBugSetters? BugPriors?06:57
bdmurraySetting the priority almost seems like project management06:57
liwubuntu-bugcontrol sounds good to me, actually06:58
davmor2heno not triage it would clash with bug squad I think06:58
henowhat is similar but higher level than 'squad', troop, legion ... ?07:00
pedro_ubuntu-bugpriory is cool but probably not good07:00
pedro_like the priory of sion07:00
liwgeneral? captain?07:00
bdmurraycome on now07:00
henobuglords (like time lords)07:00
bdmurrayA squad is group of troops, a smaller group than a squad would be a fireteam07:01
bdmurrayA larger group would be a platoon07:01
davmor2army :D07:01
henothat's getting to martial though07:01
pedro_bdmurray: haha that sounds funny is spanish :-P07:01
henobut it *is* smaller07:01
bdmurrayfuego what?07:02
liwwe might want to avoid giving it a "glamorous" name, lest people get jealous and want to join just for the name07:02
pedro_bdmurray, the platoon07:02
liwthe suggestions have dried up07:05
henoshall we start with an email to the bugsquad list?07:07
davmor2indeed :)07:07
pedro_yes please07:07
liwthat sounds good to me, but I am new and confused07:07
henovolunteers to write that?07:07
henoI think I have nearly every other action item so far :)07:08
liwit's unsporting of me, but since I'm confused about what's what, I'd like to dodge this one07:09
henopedro_: ?07:09
pedro_i'll do it07:09
henoTopic #5: Agree upon a method for communicating high profile or well known bug reports amongst each other. It should be something that developers can add bug reports that they are working on too.07:10
henobdmurray: would a tag work for this?07:10
bdmurrayI brought that up because I spent a fair bit of time tracking down a printing issue I had only to discover that it was bug that was _known_07:10
bdmurrayand being worked on07:10
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henoperhaps combine it with a bughelper query placed on some page07:11
henojust know as a bug or known as a very common issue?07:11
bdmurrayI think it will overlap with the milestoned bugs list a fair bit07:11
henoaffecting lots of printers or just one model?07:12
bdmurrayI think all hps07:12
henoit should have a lower threshold and be less time-related than milestones though07:13
davmor2I think that the bugsquad tagging is useful07:13
henowould tags be abused eventually?07:13
henoif it gets known as the tag to use to get your bug looked at07:13
davmor2heno: how is the tag added then?07:14
stgraberis there a way to know who set a tag ?07:14
henoanyone can add one07:14
henonot sure07:14
bdmurrayI don't like that tagging idea as it requires people to do work07:14
bdmurrayReading e-mail seems like less work than searching launchpad07:15
bdmurraySo mailing the bugsquad - "Hey I'm working on bug 12345 and it is important" seems the most useful to me07:15
ubotuLaunchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234507:15
henoright but tagging seems a good way to ID them07:15
bdmurrayThen bugsquad readers, or us, could tag and add them to a wiki page07:15
henowe could then set up a bughelper script to send a digest of all bugs where that tag was added this week07:16
bdmurrayThen once those bugs were fixed they might move to the ISO test watching bugs07:17
henobdmurray: who would send those emails, developers?07:17
bdmurrayI'm not following regarding who07:19
henothe "Hey I'm working on bug 12345 and it is important" emails would be sent by developers working on a fix?07:19
ubotuLaunchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/1234507:19
henois that what you mean by _known_ basically?07:20
bdmurrayWhat I mean by known is one that has already been reported and is large enough in scope that multiple people will encounter it07:20
henoperhaps a bot should listen for bugs being discussed in #ubuntu-devel07:21
henobdmurray: but isn't that potentially a very large number?07:21
heno(of bugs)07:21
henowhat about suggestion devs use 'In progress' for this?07:22
pedro_already sent the mail to the bugsquad list [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2007-October/000636.html] 07:23
henobdmurray: you you think that setting a tag is more work than sending the email?07:24
henowith tags, we could collect the bugs in a digest07:24
bdmurrayNo, I think finding tagged bugs is more work07:24
henobe we can improve that for a specific tag07:24
henowith a web page and/or email digest generated07:25
heno*but we can07:25
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bdmurrayAdded the tag is probably the least amount of work so maybe we should start off with that and see what we have07:26
henook, sounds good07:26
henosuggestions for a tag name?07:27
henonone yet, ok07:28
bdmurrayI wonder if the existing meta-bug tag includes what we are atlking about07:28
henometa-bug tag?07:29
bdmurrayWell, it is metabug07:29
bdmurrayCurrently used for bugs with a high probability of duplicates07:29
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
henoright lrt's look at what's in there already, and perhaps promote its use more07:31
henolet's wrap up this meeting now though, we've been 1.5 hrs07:31
henothanks everyone for attending!07:32
stgraberheno: do you have some example feature to add to QA-Poll (once it'll be cleared for public release) ?07:32
pedro_ok, cool, thanks!07:32
henostgraber: I'll think of something07:33
heno(but now I must run ...)07:33
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