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=== Topic for #ubuntu-meeting: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 03 Oct 16:00 UTC: Ubuntu QA Team | 05 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team
=== Topic (#ubuntu-meeting): set by ubotu at Wed Oct  3 06:49:28 2007
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[01:07] <flint> @schedule new york
[01:07] <ubotu> Schedule for America/New_York: 03 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu QA Team | 05 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team
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[01:08] <Ziroda1> @schedule Singapore
[01:08] <ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Singapore: 04 Oct 00:00: Ubuntu QA Team | 06 Oct 04:00: MOTU | 07 Oct 01:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 20:00: Forum Council | 11 Oct 00:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 23:00: Community Development Team
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=== RichEd waves
[02:01] <stgraber> hi
[02:02] <RichEd> hi stgraber
[02:02] <RichEd> ogra: you around ?
[02:02] <ogra> sure
[02:02] <RichEd> great ... kick off with technical then
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[02:03] <ogra> well, last milestone was beta, which we achieved alst week but with some major bugs (bug 145514 and bug 121547)
[02:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145514 in ltsp "interface nonexistent in the installer for ssh key creation" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145514
[02:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121547 in ltsp "[Gutsy]  LTSP chroot building progressbar in d-i hangs" [Low,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/121547
[02:04] <ogra> i'm currently working on both of them but it will likely eat up my whole week (and probably even the weekend)
[02:05] <ogra> edubuntu/ubuntu edu participated in an event of the EU project "educonlinux" where we do technical consulting for creating a content management server
[02:05] <ogra> (based on edubuntu)
[02:06] <ogra> the latest artwork package contains the new wallpaper ( RichEd, any news about a widescreen variant here ?)
[02:06] <RichEd> i've sent the mail ... will check again with her tomorrow
[02:06] <RichEd> just got this mail from colin:
[02:06] <RichEd> Moving milestone forward. (Is this fixable for 7.10 at this point, given
[02:06] <RichEd> Edubuntu's CD space issues?)
[02:06] <RichEd> ** Changed in: edubuntu-meta (Ubuntu)
[02:06] <RichEd>        Target: ubuntu-7.10-beta => ubuntu-7.10-rc
[02:06] <ogra> i need to update the credits to mention jill in that package still but was waiting to do so in case we get any changes
[02:07] <ogra> RichEd, for what is the mail ?
[02:07] <ogra> cjwatson, ??
[02:08] <RichEd> yep cjwatson asked the question: Is this fixable for 7.10 at this point, given Edubuntu's CD space issues?
[02:08] <ogra> on which bug (or whatever ) did he ask that ?=
[02:08] <ogra> i see the question and also the changed status ...
[02:08] <RichEd> let me query him .. or ask him to join
[02:08] <ogra> but there is no context :)
[02:08] <cjwatson> why am I being asked a question?
[02:08] <cjwatson> it is trivial and obvious
[02:08] <cjwatson> read the bug
[02:08] <ogra> which one ?
=== ogra sighs 
[02:09] <cjwatson> I don't know, I'm doing a pass over all bugs milestoned for beta
[02:09] <cjwatson> since, er, the beta is kind of out
[02:09] <ogra> right
[02:09] <cjwatson> I closed the window with that bug in it ages ago :)
[02:09] <ogra> i was asking RichEd
[02:09] <cjwatson> why don't you look at the ubuntu-7.10-rc milestone list ...
[02:09] <ogra> just a changed status with some general text doesnt help :)
[02:10] <cjwatson> btw, if I get asked on IRC for every bug I touch, I'll never get anything done, so I would like to discourage this
[02:10] <cjwatson> the release team needs to be able to make mass changes to bugs without being hauled into meetings about it :)
[02:10] <RichEd> cjwatson: apologies ... thought it would be quicker than a email exchange
[02:11] <cjwatson> it doesn't need any further discussion with me
[02:11] <ogra> no, indeed
[02:11] <cjwatson> you guys decide if it's fixable, and remove the milestone if it isn't
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[02:17] <ogra> ah
[02:17] <ogra> finally
=== ogra found bug 128236
[02:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 128236 in edubuntu-meta "Edubuntu (Feisty) install uses uncomplete Chinese font" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/128236
[02:18] <ogra> i'll have to measure the size ... we will have some extra space on final i'm sure ... currently ubuntu drops a big part of openoffice, we dont
[02:18] <ogra> if there is a final decision for ubuntu we'll move with them here which in any case will gain us some space
[02:19] <ogra> but i cant tell yet if thats sufficient for the chinese stuff
[02:19] <ogra> soo
[02:20] <ogra> next milestone will be RC
[02:20] <ogra> all three RC bugs we have atm are listed above and my main focus until RC will be to fix them
[02:21] <ogra> beyond that i'll indeed fix any bugs i stumble over during my work ;)
[02:21] <ogra> assistance would be needed with CD testing all the time ....
[02:22] <ogra> well, thats about it, any questions
[02:23] <ogra> doesnt seem like ...
[02:23] <ogra> RichEd, anything from you ?
[02:26] <RichEd> hi ... sorry nope
[02:27] <ogra> anyone else ?
[02:27] <ogra> ok...
[02:27] <ogra> going once
[02:27] <ogra> going twice
[02:27] <ogra> ...
[02:27] <ogra> adjurned
[02:27] <ogra> thanks all
[02:27] <RichEd> thanks ogra
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[03:02] <flint> ogra, I am very interested in staying in touch with the development process.  See you in two weeks "same bat time, same bat channel"
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[03:05] <zul> @schedule montreal
[03:05] <ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 03 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu QA Team | 05 Oct 16:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 08:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 11:00: Community Development Team
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[06:02] <bdmurray> hello heno_
=== pedro_ waves
[06:02] <heno_> hello bdmurray, pedro_
[06:02] <stgraber> hello
[06:02] <pedro_> hey there :-)
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[06:04] <liw> I'm here! (now that I realize this place isn't called #ubuntu-meetingS)
[06:04] <heno> ah, sorry :)
[06:04] <liw> nah, my very own mistake
[06:04] <heno> welcome all to the first Ubuntu QA IRC meeting
[06:05] <bdmurray> \o/
[06:05] <heno> (at least I think so)
[06:05] <pedro_> yay!
[06:05] <heno> We have an agenda here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
[06:06] <heno> the QA devel sprint was very productive IMO: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings/OsloSprint
[06:06] <heno> lots to do for the Hardy cycle and to discuss at UDS
[06:07] <heno> bdmurray: has sent me some ideas for UDS topics. more input is welcome
[06:08] <heno> (though that's next topic)
[06:10] <liw> I obviously agree that it was a productive meeting (since I was there), and I don't really have anything to add right now that isn't on the OsloSprint page
[06:10] <heno> any questions/comments on the sprint topics?
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[06:10] <pedro_> yep, can be add the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Stats to be discussed there also?
[06:11] <heno> ok, so Action: heno to distill UDS discussion topics from the sprint notes and propose them for scheduling
[06:12] <liw> pedro_, I think that looks like a perfect thing to include in the "Bug statistics" topic at UDS
[06:12] <heno> agreed
[06:12] <pedro_> liw, ok great
[06:12] <stgraber> About the bug stats part, do we still agree that moving them inside the QA-Website/Tracker would be the way to go to avoid having them hosted on people.u.c, then fetched by qa.ubuntu.com and then shown (as we have python cron scripts for qa.stgraber.org anyway) ?
[06:13] <bdmurray> Part of the reason reports are run on p.u.c is the queries run much faster there
[06:13] <heno> stgraber: I think you, bdmurray and others should discuss this in detail at UDS
[06:14] <heno> bdmurray: but we'll move the qa tracker to the DC *real soon now*
[06:14] <stgraber> bdmurray: hmm, should be the same once we have qa.stgraber.org moved to qa.ubuntu.com and inside Canonical DC no ?
[06:14] <heno> the plan is this week
[06:14] <bdmurray> Ah, I did not know this.  So many loops to stay in.
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[06:15] <heno> hi davmor2!
[06:15] <bdmurray> Well, that'd be cool.
[06:15] <stgraber> davmor2: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
[06:15] <davmor2> Hi
[06:16] <heno> sorry, this first meeting has been poorly announced
[06:16] <zul> oh helllo
[06:16] <heno> davmor2: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
[06:16] <davmor2> :)
[06:18] <davmor2> where we up to?
[06:18] <heno> wrapping up point two;
[06:19] <heno> if anyone has suggestions for UDS topics, please email them to me by tomorrow
[06:19] <stgraber> heno: IIRC I started a spec about the Tracker a while ago and even proposed it for Boston, maybe you'd like to have a look at it to update or delete it (if too much out of date)
[06:19] <heno> (there will also be the opportunity to suggest topics at UDS but these are not guaranteed a slot)
[06:20] <heno> stgraber: will do, I'm sure it can be adjusted to suit where we are at now
[06:21] <davmor2> will the topics selected be made available any where?
[06:22] <heno> davmor2: Matt, Colin and Scott will have a manual scheduling session on monday in London and will post the results of that
[06:23] <davmor2> okay cool
[06:23] <heno> (using sticky notes and lots of floor space I suspect)
[06:23] <heno> Topic #3 RC bugs
[06:23] <heno> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.10-rc
[06:23] <heno> is the link
[06:24] <bdmurray> I hate the format of that list
[06:24] <heno> the release team is on top of this I believe, but we may/should have some input
[06:24] <heno> yeah
[06:25] <heno> bdmurray: anything come up in your study of iso-testing bugs?
[06:25] <bdmurray> No, nothing new other than that printing bug that Till is on top of
[06:26] <heno> Ok, I'll start working through the list as well as one of my next items
[06:27] <heno> we should look at the completely untriaged bugs there especially
[06:27] <bdmurray> I believe the kernel freeze is tomorrow so I'll be focusing on those
[06:27] <heno> some have no priority setting
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[06:27] <heno> ok, cool
[06:28] <heno> should we try to test for recently fixed bugs during next weeks ISO testing?
[06:29] <heno> what's an easy way to produce a list of the previously milestoned, now fixed bugs?
[06:29] <bdmurray> Yeah, that is what I was trying to say in one of my e-mails.
[06:29] <heno> the list may quickly become too long for manual testing
[06:30] <bdmurray> Or similar to what I was mentioning, I'll see if I can whip a query
[06:30] <bdmurray> whip up even
[06:31] <davmor2> one way maybe to have the manual testers select bugs in a similar fashion as the y do iso's
[06:32] <heno> I guess these things should be folded into the test cases, but we don't really want to change those at every milestone either
[06:32] <bdmurray> Maybe test cases for specific bug numbers?
[06:32] <heno> could we pick out top 10 such bugs perhaps?
[06:33] <bdmurray> That can be added and removed to the general cases
[06:33] <heno> you shouldn't need to confirm that it's fixed on every single ISO though
[06:33] <heno> like your LiveCD hibernate example
[06:34] <heno> testing it on one should be enough
[06:34] <bdmurray> True
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[06:35] <heno> we could make it a separate 'test case'
[06:35] <heno> or a wiki page with a table to check off
[06:35] <heno> (going low-tech again)
[06:35] <davmor2> could the list not become interactive?  ie the ability to tick box for pass fail?
[06:36] <heno> I agree, though it's probably too late for Gutsy for that
[06:37] <heno> I suggest we add this to a Hardy spec, and perhaps make an informal effort for Gutsy
[06:37] <davmor2> heno if that is the case then could we not use the irc channel for it?
[06:38] <heno> bdmurray, pedro_: can you propose a few bug #s we should verify?
[06:38] <pedro_> heno, sure will do it
[06:38] <heno> davmor2: combined with a list somewhere, sure
[06:38] <bdmurray> sure, where shall we put them? in the Testing name space?
[06:39] <heno> Testing/FixesToVerify ?
[06:40] <davmor2> heno: where ever it is make sure it is announced other wise it won't get used
[06:41] <bdmurray> heno: That works for me
[06:41] <heno> good point. let's add a few items and then ask the distro team to contribute more
[06:41] <pedro_> ok
[06:42] <heno> Topic #4: QA team wiki pages
[06:43] <heno> there is some name space confusion between the ubuntu-qa LP team and the more general bugsquad+testing = QA team
[06:43] <heno> is that a problem?
[06:43] <liw> as a newbie I'll testify that I'm confused :)
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[06:43] <davmor2> what's the difference between ubuntu-qa and qa team?
[06:44] <heno> ubuntu-qa is a restricted Launchpad team, bugsquad with some extra powers
[06:44] <heno> mainly setting the priority of bugs
[06:45] <heno> but at the same time we want to build and active team around general QA in Ubuntu
[06:45] <heno> and the name sort of gives itself
[06:45] <bdmurray> Right, just because you can not set the priority does not mean you are not part of the QA effort
[06:45] <heno> should ubuntu-qa be changed to bugsquad++ ? :)
[06:46] <davmor2> it may be better for the lp team to lose the qa title then as it has no really reference to QA as it will undoubtedly be a smaller team than testing+bug squuad
[06:46] <heno> or should testing and other QA work be a natural way to apply for the ubuntu-qa LP team?
[06:47] <bdmurray> I'd agree that the ubuntu qa team could use a renaming to avoid confusion but I don't have a good idea of to what
[06:47] <heno> how diruptive is changing the name of that well-established LP team though?
[06:48] <davmor2> heno how big is the team?
[06:48] <liw> I'd assume it'd be less disruptive than continually having to explain things, since it's a one-time change
[06:48] <heno> hm, yeah
[06:48] <heno> davmor2: 50-60?
[06:48] <bdmurray> I think there is a lot of documentation that talks about the QA name though
[06:49] <heno> but it also has core-dev and motu as indirect members
[06:49] <liw> bdmurray, true, but it should mostly be in the wiki and searchable, surely?
[06:49] <davmor2> heno how big is testing + bug squad?
[06:49] <heno> not sure if that causes a problem
[06:50] <bdmurray> liw: right for the most part.  I think kiko's recent bug status write-up mentioned the QA name specifically though
[06:50] <heno> bugsquad is 837 :)
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[06:50] <bdmurray> I still think it is a good idea though
[06:51] <heno> we probably need to raise this for discussion on the bugsquad and devel-discuss lists
[06:51] <davmor2> how are you going to umbrella the qa team?  If it will be QA testing QA bug squad then could the lp team not just be added to the bug squad side of things?
[06:53] <davmor2> That wat everything would fall under the QATeam umbrella
[06:53] <heno> the current ubuntu-qa LP team is restricted with good reason
[06:53] <heno> so that would need to be maintained
[06:53] <heno> however we do it
[06:53] <davmor2> but it would still remain restricted
[06:54] <heno> currently we don't have an Ubuntu QA Team LP team
[06:54] <heno> we may not need one either
[06:55] <heno> anyway let's leave the wiki pages as they are for now and raise this on the lists
[06:56] <heno> I'm sure many people will want to have a say in this :)
[06:56] <bdmurray> I think we should have a suggestion for an alternative name before opening the discussion
[06:56] <bdmurray> The name for the team that sets bug priority
[06:56] <heno> that would help, I agree
[06:56] <davmor2> I'm with bdmurray
[06:57] <heno> ubuntu-triage, ubuntu-bugexperts ...
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[06:57] <liw> BugSetters? BugPriors?
[06:57] <davmor2> ubuntu-bugcontrol
[06:57] <bdmurray> Setting the priority almost seems like project management
[06:58] <liw> ubuntu-bugcontrol sounds good to me, actually
[06:58] <davmor2> heno not triage it would clash with bug squad I think
[07:00] <heno> what is similar but higher level than 'squad', troop, legion ... ?
[07:00] <pedro_> ubuntu-bugpriory is cool but probably not good
[07:00] <pedro_> like the priory of sion
[07:00] <davmor2> battalion
[07:00] <liw> general? captain?
[07:00] <bdmurray> come on now
[07:00] <heno> buglords (like time lords)
[07:01] <liw> ubuntu-bugtweakers?
[07:01] <bdmurray> A squad is group of troops, a smaller group than a squad would be a fireteam
[07:01] <bdmurray> A larger group would be a platoon
[07:01] <davmor2> army :D
[07:01] <heno> that's getting to martial though
[07:01] <pedro_> bdmurray: haha that sounds funny is spanish :-P
[07:01] <heno> but it *is* smaller
[07:02] <bdmurray> fuego what?
[07:02] <liw> we might want to avoid giving it a "glamorous" name, lest people get jealous and want to join just for the name
[07:02] <pedro_> bdmurray, the platoon
[07:05] <liw> the suggestions have dried up
[07:07] <heno> shall we start with an email to the bugsquad list?
[07:07] <davmor2> indeed :)
[07:07] <pedro_> yes please
[07:07] <liw> that sounds good to me, but I am new and confused
[07:07] <heno> volunteers to write that?
[07:08] <heno> I think I have nearly every other action item so far :)
[07:09] <liw> it's unsporting of me, but since I'm confused about what's what, I'd like to dodge this one
[07:09] <heno> pedro_: ?
[07:09] <pedro_> i'll do it
[07:10] <heno> thanks!
[07:10] <heno> Topic #5: Agree upon a method for communicating high profile or well known bug reports amongst each other. It should be something that developers can add bug reports that they are working on too.
[07:10] <heno> bdmurray: would a tag work for this?
[07:10] <bdmurray> I brought that up because I spent a fair bit of time tracking down a printing issue I had only to discover that it was bug that was _known_
[07:10] <bdmurray> and being worked on
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[07:11] <heno> perhaps combine it with a bughelper query placed on some page
[07:11] <heno> just know as a bug or known as a very common issue?
[07:11] <bdmurray> I think it will overlap with the milestoned bugs list a fair bit
[07:12] <heno> affecting lots of printers or just one model?
[07:12] <bdmurray> I think all hps
[07:13] <heno> it should have a lower threshold and be less time-related than milestones though
[07:13] <davmor2> I think that the bugsquad tagging is useful
[07:13] <heno> would tags be abused eventually?
[07:13] <davmor2> Why?
[07:13] <heno> if it gets known as the tag to use to get your bug looked at
[07:14] <davmor2> heno: how is the tag added then?
[07:14] <stgraber> is there a way to know who set a tag ?
[07:14] <heno> anyone can add one
[07:14] <heno> not sure
[07:14] <bdmurray> I don't like that tagging idea as it requires people to do work
[07:15] <bdmurray> Reading e-mail seems like less work than searching launchpad
[07:15] <bdmurray> So mailing the bugsquad - "Hey I'm working on bug 12345 and it is important" seems the most useful to me
[07:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
[07:15] <heno> right but tagging seems a good way to ID them
[07:15] <bdmurray> Then bugsquad readers, or us, could tag and add them to a wiki page
[07:16] <heno> we could then set up a bughelper script to send a digest of all bugs where that tag was added this week
[07:17] <bdmurray> Then once those bugs were fixed they might move to the ISO test watching bugs
[07:17] <heno> bdmurray: who would send those emails, developers?
[07:19] <bdmurray> I'm not following regarding who
[07:19] <heno> the "Hey I'm working on bug 12345 and it is important" emails would be sent by developers working on a fix?
[07:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 12345 in isdnutils "isdn does not work, fritz avm (pnp?)" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/12345
[07:20] <heno> is that what you mean by _known_ basically?
[07:20] <bdmurray> What I mean by known is one that has already been reported and is large enough in scope that multiple people will encounter it
[07:21] <heno> perhaps a bot should listen for bugs being discussed in #ubuntu-devel
[07:21] <heno> bdmurray: but isn't that potentially a very large number?
[07:21] <heno> (of bugs)
[07:22] <bdmurray> Perhaps
[07:22] <heno> what about suggestion devs use 'In progress' for this?
[07:23] <pedro_> already sent the mail to the bugsquad list [https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2007-October/000636.html] 
[07:24] <heno> bdmurray: you you think that setting a tag is more work than sending the email?
[07:24] <heno> with tags, we could collect the bugs in a digest
[07:24] <bdmurray> No, I think finding tagged bugs is more work
[07:24] <heno> be we can improve that for a specific tag
[07:25] <heno> with a web page and/or email digest generated
[07:25] <heno> *but we can
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[07:26] <bdmurray> Added the tag is probably the least amount of work so maybe we should start off with that and see what we have
[07:26] <bdmurray> s/Added/Adding
[07:26] <heno> ok, sounds good
[07:27] <heno> suggestions for a tag name?
[07:28] <heno> none yet, ok
[07:28] <bdmurray> I wonder if the existing meta-bug tag includes what we are atlking about
[07:29] <heno> meta-bug tag?
[07:29] <bdmurray> Well, it is metabug
[07:29] <bdmurray> Currently used for bugs with a high probability of duplicates
[07:30] <heno> oic
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 05 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 06 Oct 17:00 UTC: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00 UTC: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
[07:31] <heno> right lrt's look at what's in there already, and perhaps promote its use more
[07:31] <heno> let's wrap up this meeting now though, we've been 1.5 hrs
[07:32] <heno> thanks everyone for attending!
[07:32] <liw> bye
[07:32] <stgraber> heno: do you have some example feature to add to QA-Poll (once it'll be cleared for public release) ?
[07:32] <pedro_> ok, cool, thanks!
[07:33] <heno> stgraber: I'll think of something
[07:33] <heno> (but now I must run ...)
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[09:57] <highvoltage> @schedule
[09:57] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 05 Oct 20:00: MOTU | 06 Oct 17:00: Xubuntu Developers | 10 Oct 12:00: Forum Council | 10 Oct 16:00: QA Team | 11 Oct 15:00: Community Development Team | 16 Oct 16:00: Kernel Team
[09:57] <highvoltage> eesh
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