[12:34] (or is it capital?_ [12:35] the battery brightness is subtracted from 100 and then used as the brightness - thus, setting battery brightness to 100 causes brightness to be set to 0 [12:35] Offending line in gpm-backlight.c: scale = (100 - value) / 100.0f; [12:36] should be scale = value / 100.0f; [12:36] you sure? [12:36] thully: I've just worked out why nobody's replied to your bug [12:36] you Confirmed it yourself [12:36] heh [12:36] we used Confirmed to mean that a developer's looked at it [12:37] so everyone would've just skipped past it assuming someone else was looking at it [12:37] I didn't see that - Launchpad is so very confusing to me (I'm used to bugzilla) [12:37] thully: g-p-m's frontend says "dim display brightness by" [12:37] I'd agree that it's confusing [12:38] OK - so then battery brightness should be set to 0 to not dim [12:38] yes [12:38] Kybuk: I was under the impression that "confirmed" was simply to indicate that there is enough info to pinpoint the issue to something... [12:38] not exactly intuitive if you're expecting symmetrical interface [12:39] thully: even if you feel there was enough evidence, you shouldn't confirm it yourself. confirmation bias and all that === _MMA_ [n=_MMA_@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:39] thully: generally speaking, the reporter should always leave their own bugs at New [12:40] the gconf key has a bad description in that case: "The brightness of the display when on battery power. Possible values are between 0 and 100" [12:41] i think the basic problem is that the dim on battery will cut by a percentage [12:41] and dim on idle will simply set a new value irrespective === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:43] Keybuk: sorry about that, I tried to figure out what "confirmed" meant, but I obviously got the wrong definition. I figured that it was just to say "there is enough evidence to confirm a problem here" and that devs would basically ignore it until it reached this state. [12:44] Obviously I was off by a mile. [12:44] Keybuk: there's some gconf keys in apps/gpm/ambient that might be interesting for you if you're looking at for software regressions. [12:45] at this point in the release cycle, we're looking for "my laptop explodes" regressions [12:46] its your laptop with the sensor, i figured you might be interested anyways [12:47] Yes - I just hope that this g-p-m is not shipped with these kind of bugs. Brightness seems to do all kinds of funky things in this release of g-p-m... === predius_ [n=predius@190.8.154.185] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:48] these bugs aren't release critical though [12:49] pwnguin: tbh, I suspect that it's the -intel driver that's causing the sensor to not work [12:49] Gutsy seems good in my experience, except for 1) NetworkManager keeps crashing (but it's really a madwifi issue) 2) intel X driver randomly crashes on restart 3) gnome-power-manager is FUBAR [12:49] thully: I reject the last statement, g-p-m appears to be working quite normally most of the time [12:50] Keybuk: on a laptop, with dimming enabled? [12:50] thully: Where `crashes' means on a VT-switch you get massive screen corruption with flashing gray blocks? [12:50] there's a lot more to g-p-m than just dimming [12:50] Fujitsu: yes, but it also happens on suspend-to-RAM [12:51] which changes the VT as part of its process [12:51] Also happens when X is restarted [12:51] thully: Yep, there was a bug on that, which I think was fixed. But I still get it after latest updates. === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul_ [n=chuck@mail.edgewater.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cypher1 [n=cypher1@pool-71-187-249-82.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mbiebl [n=michael@e180075040.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === XSource [n=XSource@41.201.230.195] has joined #ubuntu-devel === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jml_ [n=jml@203-113-250-169-static.TAS.netspace.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === frostburn [n=archlich@cpe-74-74-219-225.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === eggauah [n=daniel@201.82.45.179] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:10] thully: something is broken is the gpm ac/battery brightness at the moment === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:10] thully: do have the bug numbers etc? (I know there's at least one dup ... the one I filed!) [01:10] the Ubuntu ones or the upstream ones (I just filed them upstream)... [01:12] Also, what problem do you mean in particular? I've identified about 5 with the idle dim logic in 2.20... [01:12] thully: if you have links to either, we can start plugging them together... [01:13] thully: the one I noticed is that the AC brightness is /always/ used since about 2 days ago [01:13] thully: rather than even switching to the battery at all [01:14] I'm not seeing that here - though it may be awaiting me in the next dist-upgrade... [01:14] sladen: No, the change now is that the firmware won't change the brightness [01:14] g-p-m will [01:14] mjg59: some logic is broken then. the AC slider adjusts the brightness, even on battery [01:15] sladen: That sounds like gpm is missing the transition, then [01:15] mjg59: however, the gpm applet shows the correct state [01:16] immediately, or after some period of time? === jwendell [n=wendell@ubuntu/member/wendell] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:17] well, the issues I noticed with g-p-m are bugs 137598 and 63543 (reopened as a regression from feisty) [01:17] Launchpad bug 137598 in gnome-power-manager "Screen brightness resets to default (maximum) on idle with AC plugged in" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137598 [01:17] Launchpad bug 63543 in gnome-power-manager "Error in automatic diminuition of brightness when idle" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/63543 [01:17] mjg59: seems to be a lag; so it's waiting until the next proactive battery-status event comes in [01:17] that 64xxx bug is too old to be this recent change [01:18] sladen: If the AC slider is changing brightness on battery, that's a failure of function rather than of logic [01:18] Could well also be a hal issue === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:19] I figure that it sounds like a hardware-specific issue - I don't see that here (though the dimming is messed up in many other ways...) [01:20] acpi is seeing 'ac_adapter' events; hal isn't reporting them [01:21] Is hal-addon-acpi running? [01:23] nope, if there an FDI file somewhere that dictates whether that should be run? [01:23] is there [01:24] No, it should be started at startup [01:24] hal startup, that is [01:25] ah ha. ist does get started, but the first acpi event kills hal-addon-acpi [01:26] SIGCHLD as IPC :) === didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:26] sladen: Sweet. [01:26] sladen: You win the prize! [01:26] The prize is debugging hal === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:28] yikes, what's the prize for the loser?! [01:28] asynchronous over abstracted soup [01:29] Keybuk: Fixing hal and g-p-m === Keybuk steps back quickly [01:29] wonder how trackerd is monitoring the AC status; surprisingly it's actually the only thing that /is/ responding to the power status [01:29] sladen: Polling /proc/acpi/ac_adapter/*/status [01:30] *blink* it doesn't use D-BUS? [01:30] isn't that the eleventh commandment now? [01:30] It does in svn [01:31] :) [01:31] speaking of g-p-m and HAL, I have another issue unrelated to the brightness saga - on resume in 2.20, I keep getting "suspend failed" and "Action forbidden" messages. [01:31] I tried the debug options, but I still don't see what is causing these messages to appear [01:31] The system suspends fine, so obviously something is being oversensitive [01:33] thully: welcome to asynconous event soup; if even one thing times out (eg. pulling back swap containing the end point in question) then the suspend will appear to "have failed", even if it worked just fine [01:34] The bug report would 137738 [01:34] bug 137738 [01:34] Launchpad bug 137738 in ubuntu "[gutsy] suspend / hibernate works fine, but after resume, I get a "Failed to suspend" popup" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/137738 [01:34] and a million others [01:35] is there a way to figure out what the event is that is causing this? g-p-m debug output wasn't that helpful to me... [01:36] Yes. Read the source and determine every way you can reach that point. [01:36] race condition? [01:38] mjg59 - :) [01:41] Well, this didn't happen in feisty, once again... Kind of frustrating that every time I attempt to use Linux as my main OS, I am frustrated to heck with random power management issues and feel like bashing my head into the wall... [01:43] thully: regressions; spawn of the evil doers [01:44] thully: power management is hard [01:44] and made harder by the hardware manufacturers [01:46] however, we WILL win. one day [01:46] Feisty had its own issues, though... In any case, I'm about to stick to keeping Ubuntu in a VM, get a *desktop* for Linux in the future, and avoid g-p-m hell forever === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-079-061.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:46] I guess I feel like that would be cheating, though :) === lamont heads home [01:48] I actually went to OS X from Ubuntu 3 years ago because suspend issues were driving me nuts... Now, I'm somewhat bored with OSX (I want to actually look at the code :)) and loading Ubuntu on my MacBook [01:49] The issue that was most annoying 3 years ago was ATI radeons commonly used in Thinkpads eating battery like crazy in suspend... [01:49] I think mjg59 was working on that way back in the day... [01:51] you know you've been in this business too long when you start getting sentimental about bugs === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-175-179.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:52] Keybuk: heh === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:53] "I remember the day when Lamont wrote his name in the Release Critical bug list" [01:53] I will say that it has remarkably improved since then, though binary drivers are still a PITA (darned Atheros driver seems to be crashing NetworkManager all the time!) and g-p-m is a royal pain [01:54] I tried ath5k for fun (though it seems to be know more for license wars than anything), but it doesn't like my card... [02:00] I guess I'll log off for now - thanks for all the feedback about these bugs! I may just end up cheating in my situation (by putting Ubuntu in VMware), but I'm happy some work is being done here. === donspaulding [n=donspaul@74-134-9-210.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:07] heh kernel breakages in breezy was fun [02:09] I'm having trouble googling for docs on how to use python-apt, anyone in here have any decent resources on the topic? [02:10] Keybuk: dude. it was just my initial. === lamont continues to stall while his mirror bandwidth-enhancement device freshens [02:11] donspaulding: it's a python module, of course there aren't docs [02:13] Keybuk: heh, so if I'm looking to develop a server-only, in-house, "automatix-ish" package manager python-apt isn't the way to go? [02:15] it probably is [02:15] it's just like any python module that binds something else [02:15] non-existant docs [02:15] look up the docs for the ordinary apt lib, compare with dir()/help() [02:15] oh, good, then I'm just up a creek (albeit, the right creek) [02:16] will do === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:16] also look at things like synaptic, update-manager, etc. [02:16] any bits that are similar to what you want [02:16] Or look at Automatix === Fujitsu ducks. [02:17] /kick Fujitsu [02:17] Automatix is really the functionality I'm looking for, but I want it server-side and I want to extend it to include some new ways of installing things [02:18] s/server-side/no X === Pici [n=Pici@unaffiliated/pici] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:23] 0Automatix is *never* what you're looking for [02:25] sladen, what if you're looking for the wrong answer? === Fujitsu wonders if there's an Automatix Server Edition with Advanced `killall -9 dpkg' Technologies. [02:27] donspaulding: when I was doing that at work I crated a metapackage much more easier === RAOF still can't believe they thought that was a good idea. [02:27] Yup. Because killing dpkg won't create any problems. [02:27] RAOF: But, but, but it sometimes doesn't quit itself, remember! [02:29] What could possibly go wrong :/ [02:32] you guys are ruthless [02:34] zul: hmm, I'll have to look at the metapackage thing, I assume deb's can run arbitrary commands in them? Like I could create my own repo with metapackages that are dependent on ubuntu packages, then run commands to configure them after install? [02:35] yes === Keybuk does the same thing [02:35] Or would I have to create my own full debs? [02:35] interesting... off to google again === StevenK waits for Keybuk to start talking about "Autokeybukix" === StevenK ducks [02:35] heh, just keybuk-meta [02:35] http://www.netsplit.com/bzr/keybuk-meta/ [02:36] cf. the postinst for one of them [02:36] Way cool, now I can make fun of what you install by default. :-P [02:36] :) === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:37] Keybuk: *Why* is figlet in keybuk-base? :-) [02:37] because it's mandatory [02:38] holy crap, what a great idea! === donspaulding realizes he's the last one to the party === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:40] donspaulding: it makes installing computers easy [02:40] dpkg --unpack *.deb [02:40] apt-get install -f [02:41] whateverhappened to debtakeover? [02:41] There's something I not heard of for a while. [02:41] I've, even [02:42] StevenK: just figlet? nothing else to make fun of? :p [02:42] Keybuk: Sadly, yes. [02:42] yes there is, no there isn't? [02:43] Heh, sorry. There's nothing else in there that looks crazy enough to make fun of. [02:43] lol [02:43] Actually, yes there is. [02:44] Hah, autobork by default on desktop development systems! [02:44] ? [02:44] sure, why not? [02:45] Actually, it seems to be almost every version of auto* we ship. [02:45] some upstreams are a bit behind the times [02:45] always reautoconf with the version upstream used [02:46] Except if you're CDBS. Twitch. [02:48] as long as ya'll talking bout auto and install, is "d-i partman-auto/disk string /dev/discs/disc0/disc" doesn't seem to work for gutsy preseed. anyone know what it changed to? [02:49] CarlFK: well, the disc spec isn't valid [02:49] but that might be ok, d-i is verrrry strange === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:49] the installer stops and asks me to pick a disk [02:50] I think I saw that partman-auto/disk changed, but can't remember where I saw it. something like partman-auto/disk-select [02:50] the person you need is in bed [02:51] yup. === DShepherd [n=dwight@72.252.134.225] has joined #ubuntu-devel [02:54] keybuk: Ooh, what a great idea. [02:56] ion_: I can't claim credit for it [02:56] though I also can't remember who I copied it off [02:56] mdz I think [02:57] slangasek: if you could be so kind as to put bug 148804 to bed tonight, that'd be wonderful [02:57] Launchpad bug 148804 in mlton "Please sync mlton (universe) from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/148804 [03:00] slangasek: (or whoever) is icedtea-java7 going to be accepted? [03:00] if it is, please be so kind as to toss it in universe for the moment, for my bootstrapping happiness [03:01] if it's supposed to go in main, I'd vote to move it there after it's bootstrapped. [03:01] likewise, if it's not going in gutsy, that's fine with me too. [03:01] lamont: I'm quite curious how you actually bootstrap something like that depends on itself [03:01] StevenK: with a sledge hammer [03:02] you'll notice that there's another repository besides ftpmaster.internal mentioned in the mlton build logs [03:02] For the code, or upstream? :-P [03:02] sadly, for the code. [03:02] What was the actual fix for "LVM-on-crypt doesn't boot" again? [03:02] RAOF: Hit cryptsetup's initramfs hook hard with the sledgehammer lamont currently has, until it works with UUIDs. [03:03] it's understandable why they build-dep themselves with compilers... if you're crazy enough to write a new language, you probably are lost enough in love with it to want to _write_ the compiler in that language [03:03] Fujitsu: The bug suggests that it *should* work with uuids, now. [03:03] RAOF: It does, yes. [03:03] lamont: Heh [03:03] Mine boots as of yesterday's crypsetup upload. [03:03] *cryptsetup [03:04] StevenK: the archive on sanae has a version of the binaries built by "lamont the human autobuilder" according to a set of pedantic lets-make-this-work-right rules [03:04] Fujitsu: Mine still doesn't, and I'm recalling a conversation along the lines of "we won't fix it for people who've already done it, they should know how anyway" [03:04] lamont: My question was more along the lines of how do you make the package build at all if the Build-Depends can't be satisified. === aspro [n=aspro@ppp121-44-217-225.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:05] StevenK: that's like right now, hppa is building gutsy using gutsy-stage0 to satisfy build-depends, etc. [03:05] oh. the actual real original bootstrapping... [03:05] Yes. [03:05] generally, you cross-compile [03:05] Ew. [03:05] vala has this problem too === ryanakca [n=ryan@ubuntu/member/ryanakca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:06] it's annoying === j_ack [n=j_ack@80.141.137.45] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:06] so you abuse the source to build you an i386 binary that produces powerpc output. Then you use that to build the original debs [03:06] But you only use the cross-compiled code to truly ruly build the version for the archive. [03:06] if you use the released version it comes pretranslated to C but if you follow svn you have to hop along to certain key commits so you have a compiler that can compile itself [03:06] then you install those and build the source natively on ppc [03:06] lamont: Yup [03:06] RAOF: If you've been booting manually, make sure the name of the currently opened crypto device and that in crypttab match, then rerun update-initramfs -u. === milli [n=milli@famfrit.acmeps.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:07] likewise, if you're lucky, then there's something sane to build from [03:07] for example, flex includes 'lex.l' in its source... and yes, that's a flex file. [03:07] Yay! [03:07] it also includes lex.c though, so you don't need to build-depend flex [03:08] I always found it amusing for packaging systems - like rpm.rpm or dpkg.deb [03:08] heh [03:08] Fujitsu: So, the currently opened crypto device will be... /dev/mapper/sda5-crypt, yes? And the crypttab line should be "sda5-crypt /dev/sda5 none luks"? [03:09] Hrm. Must ask Keybuk what his quit message is. [03:09] I had the answer once... [03:10] babelfish says something about absurdity [03:10] RAOF: Something like that, yeah (sorry about the lag time, a new lyx upstream tarball ate my upstream) [03:11] Why do I have this feeling it's "This is laughter for chickens" or something like that, from Serenity [03:11] firefly? [03:11] Serenity is the movie following on from Firefly [03:11] I know :P [03:11] I couldn't stand the series, my wife loved it. [03:12] Yay firefly. [03:12] StevenK: how unfortunate. [03:12] StevenK: Really? Strange person! :P [03:12] "this food is problematic" [03:12] RAOF: It just didn't ... click. I was dragged along to see Serenity twice, though. [03:13] saw Serenity, tracked down the DVD set [03:13] "Take me sir. Take me hard." [03:13] I don't remember that bit [03:14] ah, "River Tam kills everyone" [03:14] end of the episode where Mal and Wash are "guests" of the episodes villan [03:14] RAOF: Admitedly, the second time was because Joss Whedon was fielding questions after the movie. [03:14] StevenK: it's in the series, not the move === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:14] movie, even [03:14] lamont: Ahhh [03:15] RAOF: So, if you have the .au DVD release, my wife and I are in the Q&A session on the bonus disc [03:15] "go back to the part where Jayne gets his butt kicked by a 90 pound girl. Because I don't see that getting old" [03:15] StevenK: there - that's from the move [03:15] movie. sigh [03:15] StevenK: Wicked. [03:15] StevenK: rock [03:15] lamont: Now that bit I remember. [03:16] hrm... s/don't/just don't/ [03:16] RAOF: Oh, and the Firefly box set we have is now autografed by Joss === RAOF reiterates his previous "wicked" === lamont mutters something about his wife being on Extreme Makeover, Home edition in november [03:16] And I can't spell, sigh [03:17] lamont: wha? [03:18] lamont: Remind me what Extreme Makeover is? It's ringing a vague bell. === StevenK adds "Brutally murder auto* upstream and make it look like an accident" to his todo list. [03:19] StevenK: its where people with like 15 foster kids get their home torn down and get rebuilt everybody happy blah blah === StevenK wipes the sarcasm off that === Jucato [n=jucato@ubuntu/member/Jucato] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:21] http://abc.go.com/primetime/xtremehome/index [03:22] zul: sounds about right [03:22] mitzi gets to be on-air talent with Rib and Paige - I'd expect it's < 5 minutes of actual airtime. [03:22] after all, we only spent 3 hours filming it === cr3 [n=cr3@bas5-montreal02-1096552543.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:23] Hah [03:25] in the next batman movie, look for me playing a hospital patient with oriele's CSS book. that took 16 hours, and I'll be happy if I get 3 min [03:25] extra happy if CSS shows up at all [03:25] yeah - my teenager found it very disillusioning when we went up for the reveal === jwendell [n=wendell@ubuntu/member/wendell] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:26] CarlFK: Heh [03:29] lamont: I'm not really in the loop on icedtea [03:30] yeah - I poked doko about it [03:30] he sent me email with the info I need for bootstrapping it... can't really bootstrap it until the source is actually _IN_ the archive though [03:32] lamont: It isn't in NEW? [03:32] yeah [03:32] lamont: You can grab it manually from the NEW queue using LP [03:33] right... now have launchpad build it [03:33] that part requires that it be in the archive, not NEW [03:33] Ah === StevenK idly wonders if slangasek can be sweet-talked [03:34] it also requires a canonical sysadmin, which means that it'll be tomorrow morning -0600 before I even think about playing with it, by which time someone will have done something with it in NEW, I expect [03:35] StevenK: Just upload whatever it and when someone complains say, "Oh, sorry, Thought that was in Universe." [03:35] it would just save me considerable pain if it happened to take a trip through universe on its way to its final destination [03:35] StevenK: I'm not going to be sweet-talked into accepting something on the basis that someone else somewhere may have made a decision to accept it. :) [03:35] slangasek: Awwww. :-) [03:35] StevenK: you have to get him _really_ drunk first [03:36] That's one way to make Debian release on time. [03:36] which is hard, because I'm a cautious drinker [03:36] drunken archive admins make it release slower... [03:36] slangasek: that does make it more challenging, true. [03:36] will accept things for single malt. [03:37] lamont: 20-byte .diff.gz files make me cross [03:37] then again, there is always Mao [03:37] slangasek: you're kidding... [03:37] -rw-r--r-- 1 lp_archive lp_archive 20 Oct 4 02:32 mlton_20070826-1.diff.gz [03:37] Way cool [03:37] it's like that in the current version too, so [03:37] Isn't that just a gzip header? [03:37] yes [03:38] so it's packaged to allow the debian mainainer to modify things down the road without uploading an entire tar.gz [03:38] most likely, the debian/ directory is in upstream [03:38] It's ... native without being native ... Ouch [03:38] depending on the size of orig.tar.gz, that can be a wonderful thing [03:39] yes, the non-wonderful is having debian/ in the orig.tar.gz :) [03:39] Heh [03:39] How big is this orig tarball? [03:39] well, if that's how upstream releases .tar.gz...... [03:39] I'm curious if the maintainer is a big wuss [03:39] 5.3MB [03:39] small [03:39] 5MB [03:40] it's not X === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:40] Argh, take it like a man! I've uploaded three rc's of gimp, with orig and the tarball is bloody 26Mb [03:40] i dont suppose at some point in the future somebody is going to store uid numbers in /etc/group. [03:41] sillyness [03:41] lamont: mlton synced, now what's the convention for documenting this in the bug seeing how that's not in the howto? :P [03:42] close the bug with a comment saying that you synced it, I guess [03:42] slangasek: You can either reply with 'Synced' and close it. [03:42] slangasek: Or, paste part of the output of sync-source.py and close it [03:42] slangasek: I can dig up an example fairly easily [03:42] woot. rmadison shows bind9_1:9.4.1-P1-2 [03:43] wink. wink. nudge. nudge. [03:44] I wonder if that's code for "Sync it or I won't love you any more." [03:44] StevenK: well, I've just pasted some output from sync-source.py, good enough :) [03:44] StevenK: you should watch more monty python [03:44] photographs, eh, he asks him knowingly === Knightlust [n=dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:45] slangasek: there are no photographs. [03:45] lamont: Probably. I've only seen Holy Grail [03:45] "He's not the Lord, he's a very naughty boy!" [03:45] OTOH, if slangasek's wife recognized the skit, she'd be likely to beat me to a pulp. [03:45] erm [03:46] so lets go with that being code for "please sync. kthxbye. love you anyway." === cj_ [n=cj@125.5.162.19] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:55] slangasek: [03:55] thansk [03:56] libtinymail. You. Are. Going. To. Build. Correctly. [03:56] StevenK: tiny problem?? :-) [03:58] lamont: Yes. It's called -fPIC and automake === coffeedude [n=coffeedu@68-184-60-223.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:01] oh. that thing === StevenK needs more downstream bandwidth, or ports.u.c. needs to be faster. [04:03] what are you doing that requires ports? [04:03] Sync'ing lpia [04:03] ah [04:03] solved by moving out of .au? [04:04] I can only find one .au mirror that carries lpia, and it's *hopelessly* out of date. :-/ [04:04] many things can be solved that way [04:04] ajmitch: Like .nz is any better === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:04] we have advanced stuff like local loop unbundling that'll finally happen :) === fedaraoti [n=chatzill@124-197-20-12.callplus.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:08] ajmitch: I'm not certain if we have that yet. [04:08] I'm looking at ADSL2+, I just can't afford the initial outlay [04:08] ADSL2+ is still a planned feature for us [04:09] StevenK: What initial outlay? Doesn't someone want to sign you up for a 18 month contract for free? === cassidy [n=cassidy@c-66-31-41-235.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:09] RAOF: I'm with Exetel, and I want to stay with them. [04:10] RAOF: Moving from ADSL1 to ADSL2+ requires having to move the ADSL terminating on Telstra's equipment, and moving it to Powertel's [04:10] you're currently limited to 1.5Mbps? [04:10] StevenK: Right. Gah, stupid Telstra. [04:10] I could switch to 6Mb down, I just haven't === ajmitch has approx 5.5Mbps down === Fujitsu laughs, having 10Mbps. [04:11] which is useful when I sync from a fast NZ mirror [04:11] StevenK: What! Telstra will allow you to use more than 1.5 Mbps down? [04:11] nz2.a.u.c updates every 4 hours, which is quite good [04:11] RAOF: We have 8Mbps on ADLS1 at work. [04:11] pacific's mirror seems to update very regularly now. === StevenK hugs the 2Mbps SHDSL he still has root access too [04:12] Funny. I left there last week, you'd think they'd fix it [04:12] Fujitsu: That must have changed since I was on a Telstra rimm. They used to only allow 1.5 down. === gouki [n=gouki@ubuntu/member/gouki] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:12] RAOF: That changed recently, IIRC. [04:12] RAOF: Right, it changed very quietly recently [04:13] Yay Telstra being not quite so totally stupid! [04:13] Maximum speeds: Up to 8192kbps Down/384 kbps Up ** [04:13] RAOF: Not possible! [04:13] To be honest, 384 kbps up isn't enough [04:14] I have 256kbps, and dputting anything significant kills the rest of my connections... I must work out how to throttle it. === RAOF strokes his adsl2+. It's nearly possible to use raw X over ssh! [04:14] Fujitsu: Your firewall is Linux? === KristianL [n=kristian@unaffiliated/kristianl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:15] StevenK: It is. [04:15] Fujitsu: /sbin/tc qdisc replace dev ppp0 root tbf rate 22kbps latency 50ms burst [04:15] 1540 [04:15] Sorry, that should be one line === frostburn [n=archlich@cpe-74-74-219-225.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:16] Fujitsu: tc *sucks* *HARD* to use, but once it works, it's great [04:16] -rw-r--r-- 1 steven users 2.1M 2007-10-04 12:18 libtinymail_0.0.2-0ubuntu1_amd64.deb [04:16] HAH! [04:16] Take *that* automake === RAOF man tc's. Cool, I never knew that! [04:17] StevenK: I'll try that, thanks! [04:17] RAOF: If you can figure how to remove a pfifo_fast, I'll love you long time [04:17] RAOF: I'm surprised that you're bothering with its manpage [04:17] Indeed. [04:18] tc's documentation is poor at best, the source code at worst [04:18] so to make my metapackage depend on apache2, what would I put on the Depends line of debian/control ? Is there an apache virtual package? === jml [n=jml@ppp121-44-213-76.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:18] ajmitch: Well, it tells me roughtly what it does, at least :) [04:20] donspaulding: Depends: apache2 [04:21] donspaulding: there is an apache2 metapackage that should fit the bill [04:22] it, in turn, Depends: apache2-mpm-worker (>= 2.2.3-3.2build1) | apache2-mpm-prefork (>= 2.2.3-3.2build1) | apache2-mpm-event (>= 2.2.3-3.2build1) [04:22] or so [04:22] ajmitch: Indeed, Exetel charge for moving from ADSL1 to ADSL2+. $88 AUD, which is about half of what I saw last time I checked [04:22] StevenK: I'm also looking for a more general answer, so I'm not constantly asking "what should my Depends line look like?" I see that the Source package depends on debhelper (>=5). So does that translate to apache (>=2)? [04:22] or anyone really [04:23] donspaulding: Nope, the package for Apache 2 is apache2. In the general case, find the packages you want to install and list them all on the Depends line. [04:24] excellent, thanks [04:25] Hrm. I shall keep that in mind. It looks to be $143 to switch, as opposed to the $300-odd I saw when I looked last time [04:25] what does ${shlibs:Depends} do?? [04:26] donspaulding: the >=5 is specifying that versions of debhelper before version 5 are insufficient to the package's needs [04:26] man dh_shlibdeps [04:26] for ${shlibs:Depends} [04:26] donspaulding: For a metapackage, you don't need it. [04:26] actually, reading through the debhelper docs should be a good starting point [04:27] lamont: ok [04:27] I wonder if it'd be worth it to pull the debhelper man pages, etc. into an HTML page for people to read === lamont really finally makes it out the door to head home [04:27] LaserJock: man2html does exist, and has for a while [04:28] StevenK: yes, I'm wondering if it'd be worth using it and sticking it somewhere [04:29] http://xgen.iit.edu/cgi-bin/man/man2html?7+debhelper [04:29] Third hit on Google [04:29] oh, that is good [04:30]