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| dholbach | good morning everybody and welcome to another MOTU Q&A session! | 09:58 |
|---|---|---|
| dholbach | I think we'll start again with a round of introductions | 09:59 |
| dholbach | I'm Daniel Holbach, been MOTU for quite a long time already, am trying to make becoming a MOTU easier and to make Ubuntu Universe rock even harder | 09:59 |
| norsetto | I'm Cesare Tirabassi, fresh MOTU | 10:00 |
| dholbach | ... and great contributor :-) | 10:01 |
| lool | I'm Loc Minier, would like to become MOTU | 10:01 |
| norsetto | and living proof that anybody can become a MOTU :-) | 10:01 |
| dholbach | norsetto: hahaha :) | 10:01 |
| dholbach | lool: great to have you around | 10:01 |
| dholbach | who else do we have? | 10:01 |
| === \sh is Stephan Hermann, former MOTU, contributor and lurker for the first time ;) | ||
| slangasek | I'm Steve Langasek, MOTU wannabe | 10:02 |
| dholbach | heya slangasek, hey \sh | 10:02 |
| dholbach | anybody else? :) | 10:02 |
| dholbach | ok... seems we have only people around who are quite familiar with packaging already | 10:03 |
| dholbach | do you have any questions yourself? | 10:03 |
| dholbach | maybe about processes or how the MOTU team deals with things? | 10:03 |
| lool | Yes; I'd like to know how build failures on buildd should be handled and why I receive such notices | 10:04 |
| lool | For example I received two build failures for synaptic; it seems one arch was set to Needs-Build again (hppa IIRC) | 10:04 |
| dholbach | good question | 10:05 |
| dholbach | Soyuz (the buildd part of Launchpad) sometimes sends out build error mails when build-deps can not be properly installed, in a lot of cases this is not your fault at all | 10:06 |
| dholbach | that's something the Soyuz folks should fix, it's a bit annoying to have to check the buildlog before just deleting the error mail | 10:06 |
| lool | Am I supposed to do something with the notice? | 10:06 |
| slangasek | roll it up and hit lamont over the head with it ;) | 10:07 |
| dholbach | If you figured out that it's not your fault, no :) | 10:07 |
| lool | Hehe | 10:07 |
| lool | I wonder whether other bug reporters get similar spam and why? | 10:07 |
| norsetto | lool: we all get ...... | 10:07 |
| lool | (I didn't prepare the synaptic upload, I only reported a bug) | 10:07 |
| dholbach | lool: oh? | 10:08 |
| lool | Ah wait I did | 10:08 |
| dholbach | lool: maybe that's part of the ChangelogClosesUbuntuBug thing? | 10:08 |
| lool | mvo didn't replace my name when he added his changes | 10:08 |
| dholbach | oh good *phew* :-) | 10:08 |
| dholbach | right | 10:08 |
| lool | Ok, I'm relieved as well | 10:08 |
| dholbach | in any case it's a good idea to talk to the folks on #launchpad if anything like that creeps up and is not explicable | 10:09 |
| dholbach | any other questions? | 10:10 |
| dholbach | do we have somebody here who's new to packaging and would like to benefit from the packaging experience we have gathered in #ubuntu-classroom right now? :) | 10:10 |
| dholbach | a package review? build problem? something? | 10:10 |
| lool | I have another question about attaching debdiffs to bug reports; is it ok to use "UNRELEASED" in the target dist or should I use gutsy? | 10:11 |
| dholbach | lool: I personally would use 'gutsy' and also (LP: #123456) | 10:12 |
| dholbach | that way it's just a matter of applying it, trying and uploading it | 10:12 |
| dholbach | I personally find UNRELEASED only useful for VCS commits | 10:12 |
| dholbach | lool: is that common for sponsored uploads in Debian? | 10:12 |
| lool | What do you mean by "and also (LP: #123456)"? You mean instead of "; LP: #123456." which I used? | 10:12 |
| dholbach | oh, no - that's not what I referred to | 10:13 |
| dholbach | "LP: #123456." should be fine too | 10:13 |
| slangasek | dholbach: not IME; I agree with you that UNRELEASED is only useful when you're sharing around something in an intermediate state | 10:13 |
| lool | dholbach: It's just that I saw a sponsor requesting an updated debdiff with s/UNRELEASED/gutsy and wondered whether this was a strict requirement | 10:13 |
| dholbach | I just meant that if you make use of ChangelogClosesUbuntuBug and specify the upload target it's less work for the sponsor | 10:13 |
| lool | Ok; naurally I close bugs in changelogs | 10:13 |
| dholbach | lool: it's not strict afaik | 10:14 |
| norsetto | I would say its good practice though | 10:14 |
| dholbach | that's great - it's mainly new contributors who forget to use it, but you all know how to use it :-) | 10:14 |
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| dholbach | hey adam_b - how are you doing? | 10:15 |
| dholbach | adam_b: here for the MOTU Q&A session? | 10:15 |
| lool | Ok; I have a question about bug states when reporting: I think I now have the bug triaging capability, but I'm new to it and I'm sometimes in doubt with bug states: should I set a bug to "confirmed" after I report it? | 10:15 |
| adam_b | dholbach: I'm doing ok, yep thought I might listen in | 10:15 |
| norsetto | lool: no, we should never confirm our own bugs | 10:15 |
| lool | (In order to avoid bug triage) | 10:15 |
| dholbach | adam_b: rock on | 10:15 |
| dholbach | adam_b: if you have any questions regarding packaging, becoming a MOTU or something else - just ask :) | 10:16 |
| dholbach | lool: in some cases it's OK to do that - I think pitti's requestsync script for example sets to 'confirmed' automatically | 10:16 |
| dholbach | but the archive admins will recognize your name on the bug report anyway and probably know that you know what you're doing | 10:17 |
| dholbach | any other questions? | 10:18 |
| lool | Hmm bash tells me requestsync is in devscripts, but I have devscripts and no requestsync script | 10:18 |
| dholbach | lool: thanks for that - I'll tell mvo to update command-not-found-data | 10:18 |
| dholbach | lool: it moved to ubuntu-dev-tools | 10:18 |
| lool | Ok, thanks | 10:19 |
| adam_b | dholbach: there's a package from debian 'mapnik' that is half in ubuntu, just wondered why that might be? there is .gz's but no .debs | 10:19 |
| dholbach | adam_b: ok, let's take a look at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mapnik together | 10:19 |
| dholbach | it seems the source for mapnik 0.4.0-2 arrived in Ubuntu alright | 10:20 |
| adam_b | cool | 10:20 |
| dholbach | if you look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/mapnik/0.4.0-2 | 10:20 |
| dholbach | you will find that it failed to build on all architectures | 10:20 |
| dholbach | let's take a look at the build logs | 10:20 |
| adam_b | failed to build | 10:21 |
| dholbach | python scons/scons.py PROJ_INCLUDES=/usr/include PGSQL_INCLUDES=/usr/include/postgresql PROJ_LIBS=/usr/lib DESTDIR=/build/buildd/mapnik-0.4.0/debian/tmp PREFIX=/usr BIDI=yes PYTHON=/usr/bin/python2.5 --clean | 10:21 |
| dholbach | scons: Reading SConscript files ... | 10:21 |
| dholbach | Checking for main() in C library m... no | 10:21 |
| dholbach | Could not find header or shared library for m, exiting! | 10:21 |
| dholbach | make: *** [clean] Error 1 | 10:21 |
| dholbach | a scons build issue, it seems | 10:21 |
| adam_b | its cpp app and build thinks its c? | 10:21 |
| adam_b | oh no next line | 10:22 |
| dholbach | it has problems in Debian as well, it seems | 10:23 |
| slangasek | why do you say that? it's up-to-date on all archs in Debian | 10:23 |
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| lool | dholbach_: Missed some lines? | 10:24 |
| adam_b | when I build it in a gutsy chroot I have to build with sudo python scons/scons GDAL_INCLUDES=/usr/include/ install | 10:24 |
| dholbach_ | adam_b: you shouldn't have to use sudo - try fakeroot | 10:25 |
| adam_b | ok | 10:25 |
| adam_b | even for the install part? | 10:25 |
| slangasek | only for the install part | 10:26 |
| dholbach | slangasek: I saw this http://bjorn.haxx.se/debian/testing.pl?package=mapnik | 10:26 |
| slangasek | for the non-install part, you should deliberately avoid using fakeroot or sudo, to make sure the package builds cleanly as a normal user | 10:26 |
| slangasek | dholbach: well, "waiting for boost" isn't a bug in mapnik | 10:27 |
| lool | Here it cleans fine; perhaps it's a missing build-dep | 10:27 |
| slangasek | (hmm, I immediately want to retract that comment after saying it, clearly depending on boost /is/ a bug ;) | 10:27 |
| adam_b | so in ububut build its looking for 'm' which is math.h (in SConstruct) | 10:31 |
| dholbach | I'm afraid I can't offer an answer to this one | 10:33 |
| adam_b | fakeroot gives: scons: *** [/usr/local/lib/libmapnik.so] /usr/local/lib/libmapnik.so: Permission denied | 10:34 |
| dholbach | upstream have received a similar report: http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/14 - but it's not of much help | 10:35 |
| slangasek | adam_b: then you're missing the DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp from the original | 10:35 |
| dholbach | I think it might make sense to raise awareness of this failing to build on ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.u.c | 10:38 |
| dholbach | not sure we'll find an answer right here, right now | 10:39 |
| dholbach | do we have any other questions? | 10:39 |
| dholbach | adam_b: did you start to actively dive into MOTU things already? | 10:40 |
| adam_b | dholbach: nope, just contemplating writing an app that will use mapnik | 10:43 |
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| dholbach | adam_b: ahh nice | 10:43 |
| dholbach | hey huats | 10:43 |
| huats | hey | 10:44 |
| huats | dholbach: what a surprise to see you here | 10:44 |
| dholbach | welcome huats, another soon-to-be-MOTU ;-) | 10:44 |
| huats | dholbach: ;-) | 10:44 |
| dholbach | huats: do you have any questions? anything we could take a look at together? | 10:44 |
| huats | dholbach: yes I have | 10:44 |
| dholbach | rock on | 10:44 |
| dholbach | :-) | 10:44 |
| huats | I am searching it :-) | 10:44 |
| dholbach | I knew we could count on huats :-) | 10:45 |
| huats | alwasy count on me where there are questions to ask | 10:45 |
| dholbach | hehe | 10:45 |
| === dholbach hugs huats | ||
| === huats hugs dholbach, his Master | ||
| huats | it is related to bug #137513 | 10:46 |
| dholbach | http://launchpad.net/bugs/137513 | 10:46 |
| huats | ubotu is down ? | 10:46 |
| ubotu | Sorry, I don't know anything about is down ? - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi | 10:46 |
| lool | (Just for the record: I don't get the failure on mapnik in pbuilder) | 10:46 |
| norsetto | bug 137513 | 10:47 |
| huats | the last comment from pkern bothers me a bit... | 10:47 |
| dholbach | lool: me neither | 10:47 |
| huats | hey norsetto | 10:47 |
| norsetto | huats: hola, I have some info you you (later) | 10:47 |
| dholbach | lool: we had weird scons problems in sbuild (at least I think so) before | 10:47 |
| huats | norsetto: ? | 10:47 |
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| dholbach | huats: it's best to ask asac about that | 10:48 |
| norsetto | huats: sorry, for you | 10:48 |
| huats | norsetto: ok | 10:48 |
| huats | dholbach: ok | 10:48 |
| dholbach | huats: I don't know about a policy decision on iceweasel in package names | 10:48 |
| huats | it is the only one apparently... | 10:49 |
| dholbach | right | 10:49 |
| dholbach | in debian there are lots of iceweasel-* binary packages | 10:49 |
| dholbach | in ubuntu it would be just this one | 10:49 |
| === huats deserves a price : /me has asked a question about something that daniel doesn't know !!! | ||
| dholbach | so best to check with asac and ask if it should be renamed to mozilla-torbutton or firefox-torbutton | 10:49 |
| huats | dholbach: ok | 10:50 |
| huats | dholbach: I will | 10:50 |
| dholbach | super thanks | 10:50 |
| dholbach | anything else? anything more we can review? :) | 10:51 |
| huats | I have a second question to fire : can you explain me a bit the process to transmit bug fixes to debian... I know norsetto tried to many times, but I am sure it is someting interesting for many of us | 10:51 |
| dholbach | soren wrote submittodebian (in ubuntu-dev-tools) maybe that'd help with it? | 10:52 |
| huats | oh | 10:52 |
| huats | great | 10:52 |
| huats | I'll have a look | 10:52 |
| norsetto | dholbach: I think huats has some problems about what should be sent to Debian, in particular re. debdiff | 10:53 |
| huats | norsetto reads my mind | 10:53 |
| dholbach | right... I think the diff the debian maintainer could apply to the current source in sid would be most useful | 10:53 |
| dholbach | but we have two experienced Debian folks here, ... :-) | 10:54 |
| norsetto | three .... | 10:54 |
| dholbach | slangasek, lool: huats just asked " can you explain me a bit the process to transmit bug fixes to debian... I know norsetto tried to many times, but I am sure it is someting interesting for many of us" - do you have an answer for that? | 10:56 |
| huats | dholbach: if you want we can have a look to a precise bug entry to see what is sendable to debian... | 10:57 |
| dholbach | submittodebian is particularly useful for merges it seems | 10:57 |
| lool | The best case would be to confirm the bug is still present in Debian by actually running a Debian and checking the bug and patch, then using reportbug to report the bug with the patch; that's probably a long process for simple bugs though | 10:57 |
| dholbach | submittodebian has the advantage that you can edit the diff | 10:57 |
| dholbach | and remove stuff that is ubuntu specific | 10:57 |
| lool | So I guess one simpler case is simply checking whether the packages were patched in Debian or not | 10:57 |
| huats | ok | 10:58 |
| slangasek | dholbach: I was refraining from comment because my views on how Ubuntu should send bugfixes back to Debian seem to be at odds with the prevailing opinion within Ubuntu :) | 10:58 |
| slangasek | but as a Debian maintainer, if someone in Ubuntu has made a change that they think fixes a bug, I would like to hear about it directly through the Debian BTS | 10:58 |
| dholbach | slangasek: right, but given the question from somebody who wants to submit a patch to the debian bts? :) | 10:58 |
| slangasek | btw, the actual submittodebian script seems to be missing from current ubuntu-dev-tools, only the manpage is there | 11:00 |
| dholbach | oh? | 11:00 |
| huats | dholbach: so I'll use the debian BTS ... | 11:00 |
| dholbach | slangasek: I'll fix that in a sec - there's another change to it pending | 11:00 |
| dholbach | (need to talk to Sren about that) | 11:01 |
| dholbach | ok, asked him | 11:02 |
| dholbach | if there are no more questions, this is the end of this MOTU Q&A session | 11:02 |
| dholbach | we'll have one next week - I'll just ask for a proposal of a different time before :-) | 11:02 |
| dholbach | thanks everybody for your questions and answers | 11:03 |
| dholbach | have a nice day | 11:03 |
| huats | dholbach: thanks to you | 11:03 |
| lool | Thanks! | 11:03 |
| slangasek | cheers | 11:04 |
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