=== Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === saber_tn [n=Casper@196.203.177.207] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === croppa_ [n=stuart@135.27.233.220.exetel.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === merriam [n=merriam@85-211-143-106.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === iPodan63 [i=Apple@gateway/tor/x-99834f5204cfb2ab] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === neuratix [n=lorents@static149-194.adsl.no] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === iPodan63 [i=Apple@gateway/tor/x-7ad56f947bb73fe9] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === elkbuntu [n=melissa@ubuntu/member/elkbuntu] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === allee [n=ach@dialin-212-144-130-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === \sh [n=nnsherma@server3.servereyes.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === slangasek [i=vorlon@dsl093-039-086.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === lool [i=lool@debian/developer/lool] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === erichj [n=erich@mo-76-0-47-236.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === norsetto [n=Cesare@host66-221-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-classroom [09:58] good morning everybody and welcome to another MOTU Q&A session! [09:59] I think we'll start again with a round of introductions [09:59] I'm Daniel Holbach, been MOTU for quite a long time already, am trying to make becoming a MOTU easier and to make Ubuntu Universe rock even harder [10:00] I'm Cesare Tirabassi, fresh MOTU [10:01] ... and great contributor :-) [10:01] I'm Loc Minier, would like to become MOTU [10:01] and living proof that anybody can become a MOTU :-) [10:01] norsetto: hahaha :) [10:01] lool: great to have you around [10:01] who else do we have? === \sh is Stephan Hermann, former MOTU, contributor and lurker for the first time ;) [10:02] I'm Steve Langasek, MOTU wannabe [10:02] heya slangasek, hey \sh [10:02] anybody else? :) [10:03] ok... seems we have only people around who are quite familiar with packaging already [10:03] do you have any questions yourself? [10:03] maybe about processes or how the MOTU team deals with things? [10:04] Yes; I'd like to know how build failures on buildd should be handled and why I receive such notices [10:04] For example I received two build failures for synaptic; it seems one arch was set to Needs-Build again (hppa IIRC) [10:05] good question [10:06] Soyuz (the buildd part of Launchpad) sometimes sends out build error mails when build-deps can not be properly installed, in a lot of cases this is not your fault at all [10:06] that's something the Soyuz folks should fix, it's a bit annoying to have to check the buildlog before just deleting the error mail [10:06] Am I supposed to do something with the notice? [10:07] roll it up and hit lamont over the head with it ;) [10:07] If you figured out that it's not your fault, no :) [10:07] Hehe [10:07] I wonder whether other bug reporters get similar spam and why? [10:07] lool: we all get ...... [10:07] (I didn't prepare the synaptic upload, I only reported a bug) [10:08] lool: oh? [10:08] Ah wait I did [10:08] lool: maybe that's part of the ChangelogClosesUbuntuBug thing? [10:08] mvo didn't replace my name when he added his changes [10:08] oh good *phew* :-) [10:08] right [10:08] Ok, I'm relieved as well [10:09] in any case it's a good idea to talk to the folks on #launchpad if anything like that creeps up and is not explicable [10:10] any other questions? [10:10] do we have somebody here who's new to packaging and would like to benefit from the packaging experience we have gathered in #ubuntu-classroom right now? :) [10:10] a package review? build problem? something? [10:11] I have another question about attaching debdiffs to bug reports; is it ok to use "UNRELEASED" in the target dist or should I use gutsy? [10:12] lool: I personally would use 'gutsy' and also (LP: #123456) [10:12] that way it's just a matter of applying it, trying and uploading it [10:12] I personally find UNRELEASED only useful for VCS commits [10:12] lool: is that common for sponsored uploads in Debian? [10:12] What do you mean by "and also (LP: #123456)"? You mean instead of "; LP: #123456." which I used? [10:13] oh, no - that's not what I referred to [10:13] "LP: #123456." should be fine too [10:13] dholbach: not IME; I agree with you that UNRELEASED is only useful when you're sharing around something in an intermediate state [10:13] dholbach: It's just that I saw a sponsor requesting an updated debdiff with s/UNRELEASED/gutsy and wondered whether this was a strict requirement [10:13] I just meant that if you make use of ChangelogClosesUbuntuBug and specify the upload target it's less work for the sponsor [10:13] Ok; naurally I close bugs in changelogs [10:14] lool: it's not strict afaik [10:14] I would say its good practice though [10:14] that's great - it's mainly new contributors who forget to use it, but you all know how to use it :-) === adam_b [n=adam@bumble.xosia.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom [10:15] hey adam_b - how are you doing? [10:15] adam_b: here for the MOTU Q&A session? [10:15] Ok; I have a question about bug states when reporting: I think I now have the bug triaging capability, but I'm new to it and I'm sometimes in doubt with bug states: should I set a bug to "confirmed" after I report it? [10:15] dholbach: I'm doing ok, yep thought I might listen in [10:15] lool: no, we should never confirm our own bugs [10:15] (In order to avoid bug triage) [10:15] adam_b: rock on [10:16] adam_b: if you have any questions regarding packaging, becoming a MOTU or something else - just ask :) [10:16] lool: in some cases it's OK to do that - I think pitti's requestsync script for example sets to 'confirmed' automatically [10:17] but the archive admins will recognize your name on the bug report anyway and probably know that you know what you're doing [10:18] any other questions? [10:18] Hmm bash tells me requestsync is in devscripts, but I have devscripts and no requestsync script [10:18] lool: thanks for that - I'll tell mvo to update command-not-found-data [10:18] lool: it moved to ubuntu-dev-tools [10:19] Ok, thanks [10:19] dholbach: there's a package from debian 'mapnik' that is half in ubuntu, just wondered why that might be? there is .gz's but no .debs [10:19] adam_b: ok, let's take a look at http://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mapnik together [10:20] it seems the source for mapnik 0.4.0-2 arrived in Ubuntu alright [10:20] cool [10:20] if you look at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/mapnik/0.4.0-2 [10:20] you will find that it failed to build on all architectures [10:20] let's take a look at the build logs [10:21] failed to build [10:21] python scons/scons.py PROJ_INCLUDES=/usr/include PGSQL_INCLUDES=/usr/include/postgresql PROJ_LIBS=/usr/lib DESTDIR=/build/buildd/mapnik-0.4.0/debian/tmp PREFIX=/usr BIDI=yes PYTHON=/usr/bin/python2.5 --clean [10:21] scons: Reading SConscript files ... [10:21] Checking for main() in C library m... no [10:21] Could not find header or shared library for m, exiting! [10:21] make: *** [clean] Error 1 [10:21] a scons build issue, it seems [10:21] its cpp app and build thinks its c? [10:22] oh no next line [10:23] it has problems in Debian as well, it seems [10:23] why do you say that? it's up-to-date on all archs in Debian === dholbach_ [n=daniel@i59F7398B.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-classroom [10:24] dholbach_: Missed some lines? [10:24] when I build it in a gutsy chroot I have to build with sudo python scons/scons GDAL_INCLUDES=/usr/include/ install [10:25] adam_b: you shouldn't have to use sudo - try fakeroot [10:25] ok [10:25] even for the install part? [10:26] only for the install part [10:26] slangasek: I saw this http://bjorn.haxx.se/debian/testing.pl?package=mapnik [10:26] for the non-install part, you should deliberately avoid using fakeroot or sudo, to make sure the package builds cleanly as a normal user [10:27] dholbach: well, "waiting for boost" isn't a bug in mapnik [10:27] Here it cleans fine; perhaps it's a missing build-dep [10:27] (hmm, I immediately want to retract that comment after saying it, clearly depending on boost /is/ a bug ;) [10:31] so in ububut build its looking for 'm' which is math.h (in SConstruct) [10:33] I'm afraid I can't offer an answer to this one [10:34] fakeroot gives: scons: *** [/usr/local/lib/libmapnik.so] /usr/local/lib/libmapnik.so: Permission denied [10:35] upstream have received a similar report: http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/14 - but it's not of much help [10:35] adam_b: then you're missing the DESTDIR=$(CURDIR)/debian/tmp from the original [10:38] I think it might make sense to raise awareness of this failing to build on ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.u.c [10:39] not sure we'll find an answer right here, right now [10:39] do we have any other questions? [10:40] adam_b: did you start to actively dive into MOTU things already? [10:43] dholbach: nope, just contemplating writing an app that will use mapnik === huats [n=huats@194.98.120.3] has joined #ubuntu-classroom [10:43] adam_b: ahh nice [10:43] hey huats [10:44] hey [10:44] dholbach: what a surprise to see you here [10:44] welcome huats, another soon-to-be-MOTU ;-) [10:44] dholbach: ;-) [10:44] huats: do you have any questions? anything we could take a look at together? [10:44] dholbach: yes I have [10:44] rock on [10:44] :-) [10:44] I am searching it :-) [10:45] I knew we could count on huats :-) [10:45] alwasy count on me where there are questions to ask [10:45] hehe === dholbach hugs huats === huats hugs dholbach, his Master [10:46] it is related to bug #137513 [10:46] http://launchpad.net/bugs/137513 [10:46] ubotu is down ? [10:46] Sorry, I don't know anything about is down ? - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi [10:46] (Just for the record: I don't get the failure on mapnik in pbuilder) [10:47] bug 137513 [10:47] the last comment from pkern bothers me a bit... [10:47] lool: me neither [10:47] hey norsetto [10:47] huats: hola, I have some info you you (later) [10:47] lool: we had weird scons problems in sbuild (at least I think so) before [10:47] norsetto: ? === mumbly [n=mumbly@s2ii.homeunix.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom [10:48] huats: it's best to ask asac about that [10:48] huats: sorry, for you [10:48] norsetto: ok [10:48] dholbach: ok [10:48] huats: I don't know about a policy decision on iceweasel in package names [10:49] it is the only one apparently... [10:49] right [10:49] in debian there are lots of iceweasel-* binary packages [10:49] in ubuntu it would be just this one === huats deserves a price : /me has asked a question about something that daniel doesn't know !!! [10:49] so best to check with asac and ask if it should be renamed to mozilla-torbutton or firefox-torbutton [10:50] dholbach: ok [10:50] dholbach: I will [10:50] super thanks [10:51] anything else? anything more we can review? :) [10:51] I have a second question to fire : can you explain me a bit the process to transmit bug fixes to debian... I know norsetto tried to many times, but I am sure it is someting interesting for many of us [10:52] soren wrote submittodebian (in ubuntu-dev-tools) maybe that'd help with it? [10:52] oh [10:52] great [10:52] I'll have a look [10:53] dholbach: I think huats has some problems about what should be sent to Debian, in particular re. debdiff [10:53] norsetto reads my mind [10:53] right... I think the diff the debian maintainer could apply to the current source in sid would be most useful [10:54] but we have two experienced Debian folks here, ... :-) [10:54] three .... [10:56] slangasek, lool: huats just asked " can you explain me a bit the process to transmit bug fixes to debian... I know norsetto tried to many times, but I am sure it is someting interesting for many of us" - do you have an answer for that? [10:57] dholbach: if you want we can have a look to a precise bug entry to see what is sendable to debian... [10:57] submittodebian is particularly useful for merges it seems [10:57] The best case would be to confirm the bug is still present in Debian by actually running a Debian and checking the bug and patch, then using reportbug to report the bug with the patch; that's probably a long process for simple bugs though [10:57] submittodebian has the advantage that you can edit the diff [10:57] and remove stuff that is ubuntu specific [10:57] So I guess one simpler case is simply checking whether the packages were patched in Debian or not [10:58] ok [10:58] dholbach: I was refraining from comment because my views on how Ubuntu should send bugfixes back to Debian seem to be at odds with the prevailing opinion within Ubuntu :) [10:58] but as a Debian maintainer, if someone in Ubuntu has made a change that they think fixes a bug, I would like to hear about it directly through the Debian BTS [10:58] slangasek: right, but given the question from somebody who wants to submit a patch to the debian bts? :) [11:00] btw, the actual submittodebian script seems to be missing from current ubuntu-dev-tools, only the manpage is there [11:00] oh? [11:00] dholbach: so I'll use the debian BTS ... [11:00] slangasek: I'll fix that in a sec - there's another change to it pending [11:01] (need to talk to Sren about that) [11:02] ok, asked him [11:02] if there are no more questions, this is the end of this MOTU Q&A session [11:02] we'll have one next week - I'll just ask for a proposal of a different time before :-) [11:03] thanks everybody for your questions and answers [11:03] have a nice day [11:03] dholbach: thanks to you [11:03] Thanks! [11:04] cheers === slangasek [i=vorlon@dsl093-039-086.pdx1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has left #ubuntu-classroom [] === olemrac [n=carmelo@88-149-134-154.staticnet.ngi.it] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === olemrac [n=carmelo@88-149-134-154.staticnet.ngi.it] has left #ubuntu-classroom [] === adam_b [n=adam@bumble.xosia.com] has left #ubuntu-classroom [] === norsetto [n=Cesare@host66-221-dynamic.23-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["g'bye] === lamego [n=Future@89.152.209.8] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Ex-Chat"] === Whoopie [n=Whoopie@unaffiliated/whoopie] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Whoopie [n=Whoopie@unaffiliated/whoopie] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Bye"] === Pusur [n=henbru@127.84-48-172.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === huats is now known as huats_ === DBO [n=DBO@unaffiliated/dbo] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === jrib [n=jrib@upstream/dev/jrib] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === vistakiller [n=spiros@ppp254-166.adsl.forthnet.gr] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === huats_ is now known as huats === fernando [n=fernando@unaffiliated/musb] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === neuratix [n=lorents@static149-194.adsl.no] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === dgjones [n=Cheshire@unaffiliated/dgjones] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === dgjones [n=Cheshire@unaffiliated/dgjones] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"] === Pusur [n=henbru@127.84-48-172.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === huats [n=huats@194.98.120.3] has left #ubuntu-classroom [] === Crusher [n=You@ppp121-45-29-126.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === iPodan63 [i=Apple@gateway/tor/x-607833f86e370a00] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === vistakiller [n=spiros@ppp254-166.adsl.forthnet.gr] has left #ubuntu-classroom [] === Netw0rker [n=blabla@cable-195-162-210-39.upc.chello.be] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Pusur [n=henbru@127.84-48-172.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === dgjones [n=Cheshire@unaffiliated/dgjones] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === dgjones [n=Cheshire@unaffiliated/dgjones] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Leaving"] === Pusur [n=henbru@127.84-48-172.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Pusur [n=henbru@127.84-48-172.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === neuratix [n=lorents@static149-194.adsl.no] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === Pusur [n=henbru@127.84-48-172.nextgentel.com] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === delimiter [n=mdf@fis-gw1.portseattle.org] has joined #ubuntu-classroom === delimiter [n=mdf@fis-gw1.portseattle.org] has left #ubuntu-classroom ["Kopete]