troy_sandreasn: Well... it is only one of the minor downsides to owning a house.  Normally during the summer we just hire someone to do it... alas... it didn't happen.  :(12:41
andreasnwhere do you live?12:44
troy_sandreasn: The worst part is that I get allergic to the bloody grass.12:44
troy_sandreasn: Canada.12:44
andreasnwhat part of canada?12:45
troy_sandreasn: Western.  Vancouver.12:45
andreasndoesn't sgarrity live there too?12:45
andreasnor maybe that was eastern canada12:46
nothlit`alphai thought you live just outside van, unless i'm confusing you with someone else who lives in bc12:46
troy_snothlit`alpha: No that's me.  If I said the burb where I live it would be rather useless.  Most people can look and find Vancouver on a map.12:46
troy_snothlit`alpha: although in today's era of gmaps and such, I suppose it is a rather archaic view of the world.12:47
troy_sandreasn: sgarrity?  Unfamiliar with that name.12:47
andreasnSteven Garrity, he works at Silverorange and did a lot of mozilla work12:47
andreasnand some gnome stuff every now and then12:48
troy_sandreasn: Interesting.12:48
andreasnnah, it was on the east coast, Prince Edward Island12:50
troy_sandreasn: Ahh... beautiful place.  Haven't been there in person yet.12:50
troy_sandreasn: Where are you located?12:52
andreasnGothenburg, Sweden12:52
_MMA_Ahhh.... Home of "Melo-Death" and In Flames. \m/12:57
troy_sandreasn / lapo and any other Tango wizards out there -- is there any work currently on the table re:  1) alternate icons within a theme or 2) animated icons?01:10
andreasnalternate within a theme how you mean?01:11
andreasnanimated icons, ugh :)01:11
troy_sandreasn: Alternate icons within an overarching theme?01:12
andreasnlike only change a couple of icons in a theme?01:12
andreasnlike Mist?01:12
troy_sandreasn: And I know the general 'stance' of G on animations, but it just seems a little dated to not offer the option.01:12
andreasnwell, I guess someone needs to code it01:13
troy_sandreasn: Just wondering if anything progressive like that was on the table... I know generally it gets its a*s poo pooed from the Gnome braintrust, but it would seem that _someone_ must have already done something for it.01:13
andreasnbut there are no specific plans in gnome of it that I know of01:13
troy_s(being animations)01:13
andreasnwell, there are animated icons for stuff like the nautilus trobber01:14
troy_supper right corner yes?01:14
troy_sBut that infrastructure isn't in place for all of the icons, is it?01:14
troy_sIs it even treated in remotely the same fashion?01:14
andreasnit's not in librsvg that I know of, can't remember if timeline on svg is part of the stable svg spec really01:15
andreasnbut that would be a way to do it01:15
troy_sandreasn: So how is for example, Firefox handling the animations for things like the well known clock and the other rather interesting svg anims?01:16
andreasnI think it handles it via it's own svg rendering thing01:16
andreasnbut I think it would be cool to have animated svg's in librsvg, know any coder that wants to code it?01:19
andreasnor one that wants to hack on librsvg in general as well01:19
troy_sandreasn: I know very few coders.  It would seem that some sort of foundation is already in Mozilla land no?01:20
nothlit`alphafirefox i think still doesn't support  svg animation01:20
troy_sandreasn: I know batches of art faggy types... not too many coders.  A few... just not many.01:20
nothlit`alphathe clock is done by javascript editing the xml01:20
troy_snothlit`alpha: Really?  With an update?01:20
troy_show interesting.01:20
nothlit`alphalast time i tried the jimmac style loader svg didn't play in ff01:20
nothlit`alphayou still need opera, batik, or the adobe svg loader01:21
nothlit`alpha(the animated svg is in the tango archives)01:21
troy_snothlit`alpha: I would think that it would be applicable to metacity as well -- to offer transitions on the button states etc.01:22
nothlit`alphai've uploaded a thumbnailer, uses zenity for the gui if you don't supply cli filenames, will automatically render a raster version of svgs as well as a mini https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/thumbnail01:23
nothlit`alphatroy_s: are you talking about  artist types that code? or just coders01:24
andreasnugh, better get off to bed01:25
nothlit`alphatroy_s: well, i don't know if we should be thinking about svg animation in the ui, when we're already getting to the point of complexity where things need to be prerendered at all sizes01:25
nothlit`alphai would think people would continue to use more and more complex svg work01:26
nothlit`alphaor more filters, etc01:26
troy_snothlit`alpha: I was thinking purely from a contemporary look on the desktop -- it is hard to have that feel without some form of animated icon / window decoration.01:30
troy_sI don't really know... it just seems that it would make sense.01:30
troy_snothlit`alpha: And I would hope that prerendering SVG's would hit the bloody death bed sooner rather than later.01:31
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_MMA_Reading back at andreasn's comments, I swear. Attitudes like that gonna relegate Gnome to nothingness. KDE4 keeps looking better and better.01:49
nothlit`alphagnome isn't going anywhere soon01:52
_MMA_And thats too bad.01:52
_MMA_It seems like its gonna take someone to come in and shape it up.01:53
nothlit`alphalol, you want the death of everything not kde for one big unification huh? =p01:53
_MMA_Not a want but hey, KDE is making efforts to keep up with the times. I just done see it from Gnome.01:54
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troy_s_MMA_ / nothlit`alpha:  GOoooooooo E!03:09
nothlit`alphaheh, E will be ready for desktop use with 17 is out of beta03:18
troy_snothlit`alpha: Yeah... it is unfortunate the speed of E dev... too damn slow to get ahead of the game.03:35
troy_snothlit`alpha: and some rather poor 'mainstream' user design decision such as the uber-small nature of it.03:36
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coz_hey guys has ubuntu finalized the gutsy wallpapers yet?05:26
troy_scoz_: cozzy!05:27
troy_scoz_: ltns.05:27
troy_scoz_: What you see is what you will get in Guts.05:27
coz_troy_s, hey guy :)05:27
coz_troy_s, oh thats too bad  although I like the elephant skin thingy05:28
coz_troy_s, I was just going through all the sent in items most of which are really not great but  some are nice05:28
troy_scoz_: Been a arting?05:30
coz_troy_s, well not much since I am one of the support for compiz fuson  it has been pretty active there most days05:30
troy_scoz_: In what capacity?05:31
coz_troy_s, I am part of the support team on #compiz-fusion05:31
coz_troy_s, I define my role as minor there but we are all really active during most of the day05:32
coz_troy_s, I decided to take a break from that channel to come here and take alook also at the art work for gutsy05:32
coz_troy_s, there are about 8 of us there05:33
coz_troy_s, Jupiter1Tx is the head of the support team05:33
troy_sjust on getting it up and running style support coz_ ?05:33
troy_snot the coding support correct?05:33
coz_troy_s, well actually everyone does a little of everything but the main coding of course is done by the main developers   we deal with installation   broken systems et c  etc and other various user created conditions :)05:34
coz_troy_s, in fact one of the gusy  crdlb wrote the fusion-icon package for compiz fusion and he is not part of the develper community05:35
coz_he is part of the support team05:35
coz_guys not gusy05:35
coz_troy_s, so everyone contributes what they can I did the recent splash screen05:36
troy_scoz_: linky?05:36
coz_well the only splash screen at this point05:36
coz_troy_s, for what the spalsh05:36
troy_scoz_: I always like to see fresh work.05:36
troy_sof course.05:36
coz_troy_s, oh its nothing unless you see it because it is animated but sure hold on05:36
coz_i defined three of the plugins on the wiki that is one because i do the spalsh screens but they are not that great and that is not the one I wanted but the one the deveolpers wanted05:38
coz_troy_s, i take it you do not use compiz fusion?05:38
troy_scoz_: proprietary driver gong show on this end... i need to compile a custom set with older drivers.05:39
coz_troy_s, oh well that splash is two separate files the test is static and the background is animated05:39
coz_text is static05:40
coz_it has a moire effect05:40
troy_sinteresting.  what does the bg do?  moire cycle?05:40
coz_the way compiz fusion deals with the splash plugin is strange and i actually tipped onver the solution to get the moire effect  and I am not up on the definitions so ..05:41
coz_but it may be gone in future version anyway05:42
coz_troy_s, the bg is moving in a wave fashion   watery05:43
coz_see if I can make a short video05:44
coz_bad video   http://www.speedyshare.com/640842646.html05:46
coz_so troy_s any improvement with relatioins between art team and shuttleworth?05:49
troy_scoz_: Naw.  Its all in kwwi i's hands (sleeping so i am avoiding a ping)05:50
troy_scoz_: I don't think it really matters in the end.05:50
coz_troy_s, ok05:50
coz_you say you are sleeping ?  I will leave you alone05:50
troy_scoz_: Just go about helping projects where one can... that's the best situation I think.05:50
troy_scoz_: No I am not sleeping.  kwwi i is.05:51
coz_troy_s, probably so05:51
troy_sI believe.05:51
coz_oh lol05:51
coz_it is nearly midnight here so I am not entirely awake05:51
troy_scoz_: slick splash.05:51
coz_troy_s, bad video05:51
troy_scoz_: nice stuffs.  you didn't enter the logo design thing did you?05:52
coz_ troy_s no I thought that would be a bit of a conflict since I do the splash05:52
coz_although I sent one in early on but it was not even though out05:52
coz_troy_s, and I have had contact with the winning logo creaotr to creat different splash screens05:53
nothlitwill compiz fusion get a logo as nice as jimmac's revamp of the compiz one? (which is <really> nice svg work imo)05:55
coz_nothlit, do you have link05:55
coz_nothlit, have you seen the winning logo for compiz fusion yet?05:55
coz_nothlit, here is the winning logo   http://www.speedyshare.com/966928468.html05:57
troy_snothlit: The logos are pretty tight in terms of variation.  They are quite good.  You have jimmac's handy?05:57
nothlitoriginal logo http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Compiz_logo.png , jimmac version  http://jimmac.musichall.cz/stuff/compiz.svg05:57
troy_snothlit: The set is very nice.05:58
troy_snothlit: Yep... the new set is at least as good as jimmac's work.05:58
coz_nothlit, well the winning logo has a set of icons for compiz fuson   emerald , fusion settings etc  and they were created by a fellow in brazil named   graphfreak05:59
coz_well that is his online name anyway05:59
coz_i know is is a young fella going to university there in brazil05:59
nothlitoh yeah the set is quite nice05:59
nothliti think the fusion could take some tweaking though06:00
coz_nothlit, the all balck set06:00
coz_nothlit, well if you mean the application it is still new overall06:00
nothlitcoz_: as in the inset/lighting effect could be improved lol =p06:00
coz_nothlit, ah well that is more than possible .. you can put in a request for that  for sure.06:01
coz_nothlit,  you can go here for request   http://forum.compiz-fusion.org/06:01
coz_nothlit, and here for   info  http://wiki.opencompositing.org/Welcome06:02
troy_sThe set is quite nice06:02
coz_troy_s, the black set?06:02
troy_scoz_: Where ist he black set?06:02
coz_ troy_s the whole set??   mm I think I have them here06:03
troy_scoz_: Link?06:04
coz_troy_s, here   http://www.speedyshare.com/991597759.html06:04
nothlithmm, do illustrator artists do stuff like this inkscape style or that mesh color grid http://onebuttonmouse.com/icons/polarexpress/06:04
nothliti haven't touched illustrator in years06:05
coz_troy_s, they are on my system from graphfreak for use in the splash screens06:05
troy_snothlit: Yes... assuming talent.06:05
troy_snothlit: My friend did the Polar Express the movie... he was the motion capture artist who set up Zemeckis's eMotion capture system -- performance capture.06:05
troy_snothlit: And those are lovely.  I love that artist's lith set.06:06
nothlittroy_s: i was asking if they do it in layered shapes or that mesh gradient colour system06:06
troy_snothlit: One talented cookie.06:06
troy_snothlit: Oh... no clue.06:06
troy_snothlit: For something like that, I would probably just draw the shapes.06:06
troy_snothlit: The smalls look pretty as hell too eh?06:07
nothlityeah, really impressive that they retain most of their impact06:07
troy_scoz_: The set is nice, although the black is maybe a little heavy on the over consistent land -- the mixed palette was nicer for my tastes... all the all -- great stuff though.06:08
troy_snothlit: Hell yes.06:08
coz_troy_s, well this was his first attempt with inkscape and I think he did a fine job considering06:08
troy_scoz_: It really is a 'pretty' set -- no gaudy heavy lines etc.06:09
troy_scoz_: Nice and thin lined etc.06:09
coz_troy_s, he also did a color set of the same design but these stood out06:09
nothlitwell, the lines their all come from the shading itself :)06:10
troy_snothlit: His impressive lith set is just wonderful the way he adapts the firefox logo to the 2d lith style... it really is great stuff.06:10
nothlitwho thought that icon art would ever get to that stage =p06:10
troy_scoz_: The most impressive part (not that I am a huge shiny 1997 gloss guy) is the way the gloss is technically adept as opposed to that tacky s curve crap.06:10
troy_scoz_: The way it flows ala oldschool chroming via airbrush.06:11
coz_troy_s, I like it and voted for this set myself   ... there were others that were quite nice but this set seemed the most consistent06:11
troy_scoz_: The first generation with the different coloured boxes I thought was more tasteful -- but very similar.06:12
coz_ ah ok06:12
troy_scoz_: But they are tight.06:12
coz_yes I did a group of svg distribution theme for one of the screenlets and included his stuff as a desltop logo  just for fun of course06:13
coz_well it is dissapoining to hear that shuttlworth has not made any progress with the team06:14
coz_not unexpected but still...06:15
nothlitwho has more jurisdiction over compiz/+fusion, novell or canonical?06:16
coz_nothlit, cononical has no jurisdiction06:16
coz_nothlit, it is now licensed under novell if I am not mistaken06:16
nothlitcoz_: with such a vested interest the they have no claim over any of the code?06:17
coz_since the merge with beryl/compiz most of the code has the novel license in it from that last time ai compiled it anyway06:17
coz_nothlit, no claim at all06:17
coz_nothlit, unless there is something going on behind the scenes06:18
coz_nothlit, if that is the case then most of us would not be aware of it06:18
coz_nothlit, and I have learned to stay away from questioning things like that only be cause i get pretty involved and opinionated06:19
coz_I tend to make enemies :)06:19
troy_scoz_: I don't know if I would say that... another debacle with Gutsy so who knows.06:20
troy_scoz_: I have no idea how his head works, and I don't think anyone really can.  In the end, he is a brilliant guy and no idiot by any stretch of the imagination.06:21
troy_scoz_: I can only think he keeps learning along the art / design line at a frenetic pace.  But again, the nature of his makeup probably means he focuses more on other details -- not that those other details aren't as important.  It is just a different mind.06:22
coz_troy_s, true and if he can he will get involved however nothing has ever come up about cononical even in the support private channel nothing has ever been mentioned but much talk about novells involvment06:22
coz_troy_s, oh you mean the shuttleworht art team issue06:22
troy_sWell novell isn't doing anything re design either.  sweepy blue curves and crap.06:22
coz_troy_s, eeww I know06:22
troy_scoz_: Diana is gone from redhat which is a bit of a blow really -- the highbar got lower again.06:22
troy_scoz_: Novell's is a bigger gongshow than Ubuntu -- at least ubuntu has SOMETHING going for it -- albeit in a strange sort of painful way.  lol.06:23
troy_scoz_: You must remember -- we are still living in the dark ages -- rather like album art when the record was first invented.06:24
coz_troy_s, I know and if any more developers tell me they what art is i think i shoot myself06:24
troy_scoz_: It didn't exist.06:24
troy_scoz_: Well nature of the beast.  The best we can hope for is a true artistic 'movement' ala the oldschool artists who have all come before.06:24
troy_scoz_: Not some dweebs chasing after what the other kids on the block are doing.06:25
nothlithmm, i quite like these ones http://www.opencompositing.org/contest/main.php?g2_itemId=44406:25
coz_troy_s, it would be nice  to see quality  involved in these  events for sure06:25
coz_nothlit,  yeah many voted for them06:25
troy_scoz_: Free Software is ripe for a true movement.  Just as the rebelling against say the mainstream 'polish' gave birth to DIY or the rebelling against the Swiss style with clutter.06:25
coz_troy_s, you may be righit    we just need to find the crack to  slip into it06:26
troy_sthose have that nasty 'i'm a lazy ass' gloss curve on them.06:26
nothlitcoz_: what are the developers telling you?06:26
troy_sthis faux consistency in the name of consistency united under consistency sake.06:26
coz_nothlit, about what?06:26
troy_scoz_: I think it is there...06:27
nothlitcoz_: about art06:27
troy_scoz_: Just find the group of people who are passionate about the movement and have the ability to deliver content using whatever tools we must.06:27
troy_scoz_: It is quite intriguing in the 'bigger' scope when one looks at history and how all of this might play out in a possible future.06:27
coz_nothlit, well they have their own concept of what they think should be included in  compiz fuson  as i said the splash they got from me was  not the one I originally wanted to use they asked that i change many things  which did but kept my grumpy opinons about it to myself this itme06:28
troy_sold cozzy06:28
troy_sok... brb... compiling a proprietary library... YAY06:28
coz_troy_s, i wanted my splash to introduce the application so...06:28
coz_I did what they wanted06:28
nothlitwell, one of the ways to go is what you're doing already then06:28
troy_snothlit: But I think a real movement could happen -- take the mainstream and all that is broken with it -- the proprietary nature and all the ethical rubbish and truly move against it.06:29
nothlituS is heading down a nice road, they have the potential to get somewhere and be a flagship06:29
coz_I would like to see more impressive  better skilled art on the scene  than what I have been subjected to06:29
troy_scoz_: Yeah but that takes idiots like you to step up and flail with the tools and produce good work and build a body of work showing that you can do the gig.06:30
nothlittroy_s: only way to break free is find a way out of reach of the corporate overlords06:30
troy_scoz_: lol06:30
troy_scoz_: Then maybe we can build a footing.06:30
troy_scoz_: Who knows.06:30
coz_troy_s, ah remember that ubuntu kicked me for my work because it was in their opinion too revealing06:30
nothlitcoz_: i wouldn't mind seeing your original splash :)06:30
coz_nothlit, i will have to find on one of the externals let me see if I can hold on06:31
troy_scoz_: It is a path I have chosen -- just get the work out there as best as you can while trying desperately to balance the scales between want and progression.06:31
troy_scoz_: Well that is all in the past.06:31
troy_scoz_: If you are weak, you walk away.  If you are strong, you keep struggling.06:31
coz_troy_s, yeah i have been , again, think ing about this channel ,  you , and the topics we have discussed in the past    i want to make a real contribution in that area  I hope things can get moving and I certainly woulndt mind making waves doing that06:32
troy_scoz_: Just keep doing the work.  That's all one can do.06:32
troy_scoz_: Eventually perhaps we can get some momentum.06:32
coz_troy_s, maybe so lettin people see what can be done06:32
troy_scoz_: I will say I have met at least _two_ talented folks who have art degrees and are quite gifted... the landscape is changing.06:32
nothlitpart of it is the perception and divide of artists between traditional artists that use the computer and the kids that have grown up on digital art06:32
coz_even if my work is not top notch  ti still is out there06:32
coz_nothlit, much can be done with digital media for sure   it is the skills I am finding lacking with many people06:33
troy_scoz_: Gradually... the first iterations will obviously be littered with all sorts of concessions and compromises... but it should get better assuming the work holds up.06:33
nothlitcoz_: because they think the tools make the artist06:33
coz_ troy_s i agree06:33
troy_scoz_: That's just it... not _all_ of the work will be top shelf nor should it be assuming people are trying new things.06:34
coz_nothlit, I know there is the downfall  isnt it06:34
nothlitwe need the regular artists to use the digital tools06:34
troy_scoz_: The worst case is that people deliver mediocrity while striving to deliver a trend that has passed and _not_ forging a potential future or something.06:34
coz_nothlit, which is what I try to do  i like working digitally but I tend to be more of old school art than anything06:34
troy_snothlit: Have you seen any of coz_'s stuff?06:34
nothlittroy_s: wait... isn't he the one that did the lion gimping? :D06:35
troy_snothlit: Probably one of the more accomplished painterly styles I have seen in the 'scene'.06:35
coz_I have nothing online06:35
nothlitnow that i think of it06:35
troy_scoz_: You should also set up a blog or something.06:35
troy_scoz_: Get the work out there so that people can see.06:35
troy_scoz_: Especially your gimp african man set etc.06:35
coz_troy_s, well my nephe w is insisting on buying a web page for my stuff06:35
troy_sErm mask set.06:35
troy_scoz_: Just go to blogger or something and set one up.  One click if you already have gmail.06:36
coz_troy_s, yeah i love those masks they took a looong time to complete06:36
troy_scoz_: You stubborn fool.06:36
nothlitthe svg mask set i saw on the wiki before as a mascot proposal? or something else06:36
coz_lol  I am italian what do you expect06:36
troy_snothlit: He did a full series actually.06:36
troy_scoz_: 50% of that in me too.06:36
coz_nothlit, no no tthat one06:36
nothlitcoz_: did you do that gimp painting of the lion?06:36
troy_scoz_: The other half is bloody eastern block starving Eisensteinism.06:36
troy_snothlit: Methinks that was his too.06:37
coz_nothlit,  I have done several lions06:37
troy_snothlit: On a side note, who did that dawn of Ubuntu tree?  Does anyone know?06:37
coz_i think my blog although empty with words has a few pieces let me check06:37
nothlitum, i had his website before06:37
nothlitlemme regoogle06:37
troy_saside from the obvious center punching hell composition, it is extremely well done.06:37
troy_sbrb... let me get glx going.06:38
coz_nothlit,  no I removed the lion but there are some minor pieces here   http://coz1.blogspot.com/06:38
coz_nothlit,  and troy already condemed me fro not allowing them to be linked to a larger image06:39
nothliti thought they were clickable before06:40
coz_nothlit, no  I didnt know how lol06:40
nothlitcoz_: some great stuff there06:40
coz_nothlit, thanks  not great pieces by any standard though06:41
nothlitwell, i might be able to judge better if i could see them =p06:42
nothlitthey look quite good as thumbnails, and thats one of the most important things06:43
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troy_swell that was painless.06:48
nothlittroy_s http://lucumr.pocoo.org/art/ , blackbird is his gnome-look id, http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Night+Of+Ubuntu?content=52958 is a modified version someone made06:48
nothlitnext time let me finish typing so i don't have to save my line06:49
troy_sdid i bum out on you before you typed lol06:49
nothliti was compiling the last url06:49
troy_snot his though.06:49
troy_si wonder who actually painted dawn06:50
coz_well guys i come here on occasion hoping to talk at least a bit about art ... with this technical support for compiz fusion it gets me a bit down at times so thanks  ahead of time06:50
troy_snight is some nasty colorize in gimp06:50
troy_scoz_: You should probably just bloody idle in here you foolio.06:50
coz_troy_s, i know i do so much time in support I forget then when Id o come here it is 2 or 3 am here and no one is one06:51
troy_swell sometimes the moons align.06:51
troy_salthough it was hideous for me the past while as i was on a show.06:51
nothlittroy_s: on gnome-look blackbird says its his06:51
coz_well I decided to quit early this evening just to come here06:51
troy_scoz_: Spending time answering questions gets tiring.06:52
troy_snothlit: Interesting.06:52
coz_oh boy does it06:53
nothlityeah, i've permanently pooped out on support in #ubuntu06:53
nothliti don't know how you would do it constantly for so long06:54
coz_nothlit, I have to say that #compiz-fusion is a really even well tempered support channel  it s pretty easy to deal with06:55
coz_and I will probably fo there shortly anyway :)06:55
coz_go not fo06:56
coz_damn fingers06:56
coz_well troy_s   and nothlit  i think i am going to head over to compiz fusion now but will leave this channel in lurk mode :)06:56
coz_thanks again guys ti was really  nice   ... I needed this :)06:57
troy_sOkie... chat soon hopefully coz.06:57
troy_sget cranking on the work.06:57
coz_troy_s, will do and I will try to get here as often as possible also.... I need to talk art even if i disagree with everyone lol06:58
nothlitwhat the... i downloaded the dapper drake artwork source package and dawn is not in it06:58
troy_scoz_: Disagreements are nothing more than people who give a shit.06:58
troy_snothlit: Hrm... odd.06:59
nothlitoh, extraction error07:02
nothlitgot it now07:02
nothlit        Dawn of Ubuntu: Armin Ronacher <armin.ronacher@active-4.com>07:02
nothlit                CC Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike07:02
nothlithe has a second website http://active-4.com/creative.html07:10
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