[12:38] Fujitsu: I had notes telling me there was supposed to be an advance warning of the impending freeze, but I was counting down from the wrong point and didn't notice it until the day of the freeze itself (today) :/ === bicchi [n=albert@adsl-065-006-167-199.sip.mia.bellsouth.net] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [12:39] how come I dont see a Xen team listed ? [12:40] osmosis: ubuntu-xen [12:40] Fujitsu: where ? [12:40] osmosis: On Launchpad. [12:40] Fujitsu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Teams [12:41] Xen is special and not entirely universe, so probably doesn't have a page. [12:41] And the wiki is woefully out of date in places. [12:41] https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-xen [12:42] slangasek: When did the release schedule change [12:42] *? [12:42] Well, actually, I guess the final freeze isn't marked... [12:42] yeah, that's the problem [12:42] Fujitsu: It's hidden under "ReleaseCandidate" [12:43] except the freezing mentioned under ReleaseCandidate is still different [12:43] ReleaseCandidate says that after it only showstoppers. But nothing about ReleaseCandidateFreeze, hm... [12:43] (and it should probably be clarified that it now applies to universe too) === ivoks [n=ivoks@6-199.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:44] Certainly that. Freezes applying to Universe are fairly new (Excepting UVF and New Packages). [12:45] well, in practice the BetaFreeze "applied" to Universe in that packages had to be hand-approved [12:45] doesn't mean there was much review of them along the way [12:45] That has always been regarded as a Soyuz limitation. [12:45] It was a given that packages would be waved through without checking. [12:46] slangasek: But it specifically says in BetaFreeze that the freeze is lifted after BetaRelease. [12:47] slangasek, must MOTUs stop to upload packages and wait for an ack from RC team or they simply do as usual and RC will review them by hand? [12:47] DktrKranz: the latter [12:47] ok, thanks [12:49] anyway, I think there should be an accurate selection before uploading a package in ordert to avoid high loads for RC. Am I wrong? [12:49] Now I'm confused. I thought that we were only to work on specific release-relevant bugs, rather than doing as usual. [12:51] persia: As usual, as opposed to asking for prior RM approval. [12:51] persia: I'm requesting clarification from veteran members of the release team. the notes I'm going from don't distinguish between universe and main and so I also didn't distinguish in my mail, but it's entirely plausible to me that it's not meant to apply to universe [12:51] Fujitsu: Ah. Right. [12:51] Aha. Yay for lack of documentation! [12:52] slangasek: OK. Thanks. I'll prep stuff as if it would be applied then (pending resolution). === Nightrose [n=lydia@amarok/rokymotion/nightrose] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:53] persia: ok, it's intended that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess#head-c29dbda80b94dddd19d454dc8f454fcadc6b3302 applies, which means that even though the archive is "frozen", we'll give only a passing review to universe uploads. Sorry for the confusion. [12:54] slangasek: That makes more sense. Thanks. No worries on the confusion: I've been away for around three months, so carry a fair amount of uncertainty returning. [12:55] slangasek: Aha, thanks for the clarification. === DarkMageZ [n=richard@ppp121-44-75-228.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:55] do you think a follow-up email is warranted, or will word-of-mouth take it from here? [12:56] slangasek: You're probably safe. People who want to upload will likely check here if there are questions. [12:56] ok, cool [12:57] thanks for clarifying that [12:57] Might be an idea to stick something in the topic of either here or #ubuntu-devel. [12:59] It still needs manual (if light) review by the Release Team, so in a sense, it is frozen anyway. Perhaps in /topic here, but in -devel? === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:07] pochu: Thanks for doing minutes, not that there was much to cover. :) [01:07] TheMuso: hehe, true that :-) [01:11] TheMuso: Hi. I wanted to ask about ubuntustudio-desktop as a dependency of ubuntustudio-*. [01:12] persia: Yes, we don't want that either, we were trying to get things straightened out for disks, but I've just uploaded a new meta to remove that. [01:12] TheMuso: Ah... Cool. I was just confused. [01:22] Should new upstream version upload of a package already in archive use REVU? [01:22] minghua: If you need UVFe, it should be in an alternate repository (REVU is a good example of such a repository). [01:23] persia: Not my package. Just a question about the general policy. I'll take that as a yes, thanks. [01:24] minghua: More generally then, before UVF, it just gets uploaded. After UVF, it needs to be somewhere for review. [01:25] persia: But non-MOTU can still upload to REVU for review, right? [01:25] minghua: Sure (although I'm not sure what the answer will be after UDS). [01:26] BTW is there any REVU admin around? My account seems to be removed after the move. === anibal [n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:27] (...or should I upload a package, therefore create an account, then bother the admins to add privilege for me?) [01:27] minghua: I don't appear to be a REVU admin anymore, but what are you trying to accomplish? [01:27] persia: Just add a comment. [01:28] Not urgent at all, obviously. [01:29] minghua: Ah. I think you'll need an admin then (unless something has changed). [01:29] persia: Or if you are so kind, please comment on http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=339 and ask the uploader to run lintian (at least read the lintian output after uploading). [01:29] minghua: On the other hand, the work described in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-August/002104.html might have given you a different account. [01:30] minghua: Anybody with an account on sparky (ie. ubuntu-dev) can actually promote users. [01:30] Fujitsu: it's not a direct map to ubuntu-dev (or my account would work). [01:31] Fujitsu: Thanks. Let me try the thing in persia's link first. [01:31] Thanks to persia too. :-) [01:31] persia: The accounts on sparky should be pretty much everybody, though the syncing script apparently hasn't run in a while. [01:32] Fujitsu: Around 6 months, but I understand that the administrator will be more active again soon :) [01:34] Yay, I'm in now. [01:34] persia: Thanks, the procedure in the mail you pointed to worked. [01:34] minghua: Great. I've also relayed your comment. Let me know if you want to rephrase, and I'll delete. [01:34] Apparently iceape is quite stubborn about remembering my logins. [01:36] persia: The comment is good, thanks (actually, more polite than I would have put it :-P). [01:36] minghua: I like to provide encouragement :) === ivoks [n=ivoks@6-199.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Vorian [n=Steve@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.active.Vorian] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zakame [i=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-motu === doko [n=doko@dslb-088-073-075-227.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Fujitsu wonders why most of libapache-*'s Debian unmetdeps bugs haven't had a response in the 4 months since they were filed. [01:56] Fujitsu: Apache 1 or Apache 2 packages? [01:56] minghua: Apache 1. [01:57] because they're packages someone uploaded 8 years ago with a userbase of 5? :) [01:57] slangasek: Heh, probably. [01:57] Fujitsu: I think all apache 1 packages are out of testing now. But I'm sure slangasek knows better than I do. === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:01] afraid they aren't [02:01] wish they were :) [02:01] (the main holdout is php4) === fedefede0101 [n=Fede@unaffiliated/fedefede0101] has joined #ubuntu-motu === khermans__ [i=khermans@nat/cisco/x-440000dd39cd28b8] has joined #ubuntu-motu === _MMA_ [n=_MMA_@cpe-071-070-203-016.nc.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-motu [] [02:04] Isn't PHP4 EOL? [02:04] persia: Not until December, IIRC. === Sp4rKy_ [n=Sp4rKy@dunnewind.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:12] persia: php4 is already dead in unstable, it's stuck in testing because it has the same problem as apache1 itself [02:12] (too many reverse-deps that won't go awaaaaayyy) [02:13] slangasek: Ah. I can sympathise. [02:13] Surely 4 months is enough for somebody to come and kill them without the maintainer? [02:13] Are there removal bugs filed? If not, they may never go... [02:15] ok, so what is a good CLI way to take out a variable string from another string? [02:15] LaserJock: How is the variable string separated from the rest? [02:15] slangasek: are you the one we need to ask for a RC freeze exception? [02:15] LaserJock: Do you mean something like s/$foo//? [02:15] And by take it out, do you mean return the variable bit, or remove it from the original? [02:16] persia: basically yeah [02:16] I'm doing some translation stuff [02:16] LaserJock: I like sed for that. [02:16] LaserJock: if necessary, though usually you should let the uploads do the talking :) [02:16] I need to turn about-edubuntu-CC.po into CC.po [02:16] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deluge-torrent/+bug/149050 Found the issue, worked with the developer for the patch, patch works. Anyone wanna package it, or does anyone wanna sponsor mine? [02:16] Launchpad bug 149050 in deluge-torrent "Deluge torrent client: Cannot set file priority, as it continually claims that Full Allocation is not set" [Undecided,Confirmed] === luisbg [n=d33p@ubuntu/member/luisbg] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:16] (e.g. `sed -i s/'REMOVE ME'//g foo`) [02:16] but the "about-edubuntu-" part will change depending on the doc I'm working on [02:17] Fujitsu: feel free to join the Debian QA team to try to identify these and get them cleaned out? :) [02:17] persia: ok, right, but can I stick a variable in there for "REMOVE ME" ? [02:17] LaserJock: You can, but it sounds like you'd do better in a bash context (see http://www.faqs.org/docs/abs/HTML/string-manipulation.html) [02:17] slangasek: is anybody free to join Debian QA? [02:18] LaserJock: yes; by "join" I basically mean "do the work to identify packages that should be orphaned or removed, post to debian-qa to get a consensus" [02:18] e,g, ${$FOO#$BAR (close brace) removes $BAR from $FOO [02:18] and then "if approved by the team, file bug reports" [02:20] slangasek: does Debian QA have a wiki/web page that describes what tasks they do? [02:20] LaserJock: qa.debian.org? [02:20] hah [02:20] those Debian guys think of everything ;-) [02:20] LaserJock: It's practice what does it. [02:21] anybody know if Debian has implemented the new Debian Maintainer thing? [02:21] LaserJock: Not yet. [02:21] it's not fully implemented yet, no [02:21] Although I am a bit behind on debian-devel. [02:22] hmm, I'd like to sign up for that when it's working I think [02:22] there's some prototype code === LaserJock shamefully admits he just this last week installed Debian at home for the first time [02:23] I was quite surprised how well it worked and looked ;-) === Fujitsu should probably find the time to finish T&S. [02:24] Ok, let's try this again :) I fixed #149050, I've got the patch, and I'm not really sure how to proceed. It's correct, tested, and I have a package for it. Anyone want to look at the patch and put it in? Anyone want to sponsor mine? Not sure how to proceed. [02:24] bug 149050 [02:24] Launchpad bug 149050 in deluge-torrent "Deluge torrent client: Cannot set file priority, as it continually claims that Full Allocation is not set" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149050 [02:24] bug #149050 [02:25] Joe_CoT: The next step is to wrap the patch (along with any other fixes from https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/deluge-torrent/ with easy fixes) in a candidate revision patch, and subscribe ubuntu-universe-sponsors. [02:27] Joe_CoT: Note that there may be a conflict with bug 139518. You'll want to review to see which is better for a final solution (at this point, I think targeted patches are preferred). [02:27] Launchpad bug 139518 in deluge-torrent "UVF Exception: latest stable version 0.5.5" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/139518 [02:28] well, i went and worked with the devs to get the patch, since we're in feature freeze. Updating to 0.5.5 fixes the issue, but I didn't think that was happening at this point [02:28] Joe_CoT: Can you provide a full debdiff as well? [02:29] Joe_CoT: i.e., with debian/patches/00list and debian/changelog changes. [02:29] Joe_CoT: I also don't think it will be happening, as we've just entered the ReleaseCandidateFreeze, so the next step is to prepare a new candidate revision. There's some instruction available from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing, although it may be slightly out of date. [02:30] minghua: I can, but I'm not sure how to do so. if you give me a hint I'll get on it and attach it [02:30] persia: yeah, i figured, and that's why I wanted to just patch the bug [02:31] Joe_CoT: one-bug revisions are good. Just ask here if you have any trouble with the instructions. [02:32] Joe_CoT: The link given by persia has instructions about using debdiff. [02:32] Although to be honest, that patch confuses me quite a bit. === osmosis [n=steven@cpe-76-90-81-133.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:34] Looks to me like a change to the preferences model: combining two mutually opposed booleans into a single entry. Am I missing something? [02:35] persia: yes, that's it. The problem is that, in the current version, preferences sets both use_full and use_compact to 1, so compact is always used. In 5.4.1, only use_compact is actually used. [02:35] persia: Why is the first hunk necessary? [02:36] so, setting compact sets use_compact =1, setting full sets use_compact=0 [02:36] minghua: The first hunk removes the logic to auto-set the alternate boolean when one is set, and replaces it with a radio control. The second uses the radio control instead of the boolean to set a value. [02:38] minghua: added the debdiff [02:39] hi guys, just a question.....build-stamp and config-stamp are lock files right?? so, they're supposed to be empty at the end of the building process... [02:39] am I right?? [02:39] sorry, I'm preety new with packaging.... [02:39] :) [02:39] Hmm. Let me download the deluge-torrent package. [02:39] fedefede0101: THey are used to indicate that that part of the package build has completed successfully. [02:40] Joe_CoT: A few notes: 1) In the changelog, describe the issue resolved so that admins don't need to check lauchpad. 2) The syntax (LP: #nnnnn) in the changelog will automatically close the bug for you. [02:40] persia: BTW I am still not convinced, I don't see anything removed in the first hunk. I see it as a functional-equivalent change. [02:40] persia: ok, I'll make that change [02:40] minghua: I'll defer to you: my python-fu is really more python-bu [02:40] ok, thanks TheMuso :) so, I was right... [02:41] I'm trying to learn as much as I can... [02:41] persia: Nah, I am a green newbie on python, too. [02:42] minghua: the change is that now, instead of the full radio being set to use_full, and the compact radio set to use_compact, the compact radio is set to use_compact, and the full radio is set to !use_compact. use_compact is the only one actually used, and that was the problem [02:42] good night...and thanks again!! :) [02:42] Grrr... www.jp.debian.org isn't mirroring... === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === fedefede0101 [n=Fede@unaffiliated/fedefede0101] has left #ubuntu-motu ["ciaociao..."] [02:43] I get it: so an alternate solution would be to add another if clause checking the state of radio_full_allocation (although this is nicer). [02:43] Joe_CoT: Yes, I understand the logic. But I don't see anything involved with "use_full_storage" in the first hunk. [02:43] minghua: exactly. the tag is now gone [02:44] Joe_CoT: Then why change the first hunk? [02:44] ...If it has nothing to do with the removed tag. === CarlF1 [n=carl@c-71-194-211-5.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:46] minghua, the first chunk is probably unnecessary, correct. It looks like it's just a more streamlined version. If you'd like, I can try without the top chunk and see if it works correctly. [02:46] Joe_CoT: No need. If the patch comes from upstream, keep it as is. [02:47] Joe_CoT: I'm just making sure I'm understanding the patch correctly. [02:47] (Just be prepared to defend it :)) [02:47] ok. yeah, the only change is i changed it from patch to dpatch [02:50] Joe_CoT: Also, please mention that the patch comes from upstream in debian/changelog. [02:50] ok [02:51] Actually, I think I see the point of the first hunk now. [02:53] persia: Are you familiar with the freeze exception process? === minghua is not sure if he is going to do his first sponsor upload for gutsy in the release freeze week... === osmosis [n=steven@cpe-76-90-81-133.socal.res.rr.com] has left #ubuntu-motu ["Ex-Chat"] [02:55] minghua: This freeze is new for me, and I've been away for a while. From what I understand from this morning's MOTU meeting, there are a number of active sponsors who could provide review (if the bug is subscribed to the team). [02:56] still the same process as before. File bug against source package, attach debdiff, sub motu-uvf, yadda. [02:56] crimsun! === TheMuso knew someone would do that. [02:56] persia: I have done the review. I think the patch is good. I just don't know the procedure (how many acks? can I just upload? should I ping release managers after upload?) [02:56] Hi crimsun. [02:57] persia: Added more to changelog and patch, changed to use (LP: #xxxxx) syntax. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/39724/ [02:57] is that better than the other debdiff? [02:58] minghua ^ as well [02:58] Joe_CoT: That's a much better changelog, although if you could keep the line length to < 80, it would be even better :) [02:58] ok, 1 sec. Same with the patch description, or is that ok? [02:58] how do I spit it. another "-" line? [02:58] *split [02:58] Joe_CoT: Also, I'm not sure mentioning a dpaste.com url in changelog is exactly a good idea... [02:58] The patch description is seen by fewer people, so it's more OK, but if you don't mind... [02:59] minghua: i have no other method of showing it. that's what the dev gave me on irc. i could just not include it [02:59] minghua: upload is blocked on one approval from an ~motu-uvf member; the approval can be via any medium (SMS, IRC, e-mail, yadda) [02:59] Joe_CoT: You don't need a new "-". Just wrap it, and indent inside the previous "-". [02:59] Joe_CoT: Just say it's from upstream would be good enough. This is not a court. :-) [02:59] ok. give me just a se [02:59] *sec [03:00] crimsun: Thanks. === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:00] Joe_CoT: yeah, remove the leading "-", and just put (LP: #nnnnn) at the end. [03:01] minghua: ? sorta confused what you mean === DarkMageZ [n=richard@ppp121-44-75-228.lns10.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:02] i also gotta go really soon, so if you explain, i'll upload the diff and be walking out the door :) [03:05] Joe_CoT: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/39725/ [03:05] Joe_CoT: That's how I would write it. [03:05] ok, well i gotta go. I'll look later. bye! === apachelogger_ [n=me@N784P015.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:12] Hmm. Joey Hess wrote a patch to make dpkg understand git. === mruiz [n=mruiz@ubuntu/member/mruiz] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Paddy_EIRE [n=patrick@78.148.101.84] has joined #ubuntu-motu === thekorn [n=markus@a89-182-31-227.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === zakame [i=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-motu === pkern [n=pkern@durotan.0x539.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-175-179.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:07] Heya === jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-motu === persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has joined #ubuntu-motu === thekorn_ [n=markus@a89-182-8-24.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:32] I don't believe I like the virtualbox OSE package. [04:32] it rolls in an SDK (i.e. a -dev package) === Whoopie_ [n=Whoopie@unaffiliated/whoopie] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:33] the lack of a proper kernel module package (only source) also is irksome but. === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-motu === persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Knightlust [n=dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:53] Youch. The ATI driver upload FTBFS. [04:54] Yay. Let's beat up Bryce. [04:55] heh [04:55] Actually it was tepsipakki who uploaded it. :) [04:57] Let's beat up Bryce anyway === beuno [n=beuno@44-111-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:58] Wow, tough crowd :-) === beuno [n=beuno@44-111-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-motu === beuno_ [n=beuno@44-111-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-motu === tuxmaniac [n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac] has joined #ubuntu-motu === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === beuno [n=beuno@44-111-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:24] Well I guess I should have read the scrollback before I posted to ubuntu-devel.... [05:30] ScottK: It's okay. Since the idea is people would ask the motu-uvf team before uploading anyway, and you are likely the only one who still don't know the exact freeze rules, I'd say all is good. :-) [05:31] This is still different than I remember Feisty being, but I was still pretty new then. === thoreauputic [i=peter@ubuntu/member/thoreauputic] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RAOF [n=chris@123-243-65-41.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:39] minghua: Well I used the wrong e-mail address to post it and so it got moderated and I could kill it. [05:40] ScottK: to where? [05:41] Hobbsee: I responded to the freeze anounement message on ubuntu-devel before I read the scrollback here. [05:41] Universe is still slushy, not entirely frozen. [05:41] ScottK: did you kill it? [05:41] or is it still there? [05:41] Aha. So I guessed what ScottK's mail is about without seeing it. :-) [05:41] I did (kill my mesage.) [05:41] oh right [05:41] ScottK: i have mod powers for that list, btw [05:41] OK. [05:42] We're fairly slushy until " is so frozen you wouldn't believe" freeze. [05:42] Normally when I screw up and send with the wrong address, I just kill it and resend. [05:42] yeah, same here [05:42] Fujitsu: Yes, which isn't what the RM mailing said. [05:42] yeah, but whether steve thinks of universe is an interesting questoin === Hobbsee goes thru the moderation queues === altf2o [n=altf2o@168-103-231-78.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #Ubuntu-MOTU [05:45] Anyone know what "!C menu-2" in a menu file means? === ScottK is good and does not respond again on the LP bug status thread ... [05:51] 3/c [05:51] ugh [05:51] ScottK: I've really avoided that whole thread.. :-) [05:52] bddebian: Don't worry. The LP devs appear to understand how we do stuff better than we do and will make LP wonderful for us. [05:52] === bddebian refuses to comment on the grounds that he may incriminate himself === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === persia belatedly responds to a menu question: Menu File Format 2 (introduced 8 years ago, but not yet completely adopted) [06:01] Ah, thx persia === d33p__ [n=d33p@71.144.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #ubuntu-motu === XSource [n=XSource@41.201.222.140] has joined #ubuntu-motu === MatthewV [n=MatthewV@123.200.155.30] has joined #ubuntu-motu === YokoZar1 [n=scott@c-67-166-147-83.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:15] Akk, does the archive freeze mean I can't upload my new Wine package? [06:15] Or is that just for non universe? [06:17] YokoZar1: It means that any upload should have a good reason, and will require manual approval from the release administrators. You'll want to get approval from someone in motu-uvf before uploading (I think). [06:17] Already have it :) [06:21] YokoZar1: I'd say lets give it a shot. [06:22] ScottK: Thanks. This week has been really busy. Also it took me literally all day to fetch/rebuild the ia32-libs package now (which I'm about to upload to REVU) [06:22] ScottK: right, the mailing didn't mention universe explicitly at all, because the notes I was working from didn't either; I don't have a problem with anything that the MOTU think is best for handling universe at this stage [06:22] so feel free to take my comments as only applying to main [06:22] ty slangasek === thoreauputic [i=peter@ubuntu/member/thoreauputic] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-motu === predius [n=predius@190.8.154.185] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Knightlust [n=dax@ubuntu/member/knightlust] has joined #ubuntu-motu === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Paddy_EIRE [n=patrick@89.240.252.89] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:07] ScottK: doh! [07:07] ScottK: well of course we see 15 min after tepsipakki's upload, upstream released a new -ati :-P [07:08] Hah [07:08] bryce: "Correct bozo idiot error" ? :-) [07:09] a CBIE, yes [07:09] actually we knew alex would be doing a new -ati release "some time this weekend", we just didn't know it'd be Friday afternoon ;-) [07:10] I can't expand out CBIE. Can't Believe I , right? [07:10] why, "Correct Bozo Idiot Error" of course [07:11] Ahhh === Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:22] hiya bryce === Zic [n=Zic@ubuntu/member/zic] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:29] slangasek: Thanks. [07:29] bryce: ScottK/StevenK [07:37] ScottK: whoops. I guess you SmumbleK's look much the same ;-) [07:37] bryce: No trouble. Happens all the time. [07:38] In real life when someone gets my name wrong it's almost always Steve for some reason I don't understand, so it's not just tab completion. === beuno [n=beuno@44-111-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #ubuntu-motu [07:40] And people usually hear my name as 'Dave' on the phone. It's odd. [07:40] People think I'm my mom on the phone === StevenK bits back a quip [07:41] Er, bites === ScottK types and then thinks better and hits backspace. [07:41] bryce, you still here? [07:41] yup [07:42] ScottK: ^U is your friend [07:42] Hmmm.. sbuild 0.56 is still broken for me. Does it work for anyone else? [07:42] bryce, can you comment to how recent of a i810 driver we have: whether this patch discussed here will be necessary http://mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Installing_MythTV_on_an_Intel_Mac_Mini_using_Ubuntu#Viewing_HD_Material [07:42] StevenK: Sure, but I actually thought better instead of just pretending to this time. [07:43] tonyyarusso: Did we backport Kompozer to Feisty yet? [07:43] ScottK: No, I've been distracted. [07:43] It's probably a good time for it... [07:43] yeah [07:43] remind me of the process? [07:44] !backports | tonyyarusso [07:44] tonyyarusso: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging [07:44] superm1: yeah lemme look [07:45] Nixternal's an hour west of me and he just said he was going to bed (on #kubuntu-devel). I guess I better too. [07:45] Good night all. [07:45] pff, sleep [07:45] night St...ScottK [07:45] night, ScottK [07:45] superm1: ok here's the skinny [07:46] superm1: i810 is deprecated. Upstream in xorg they alias i810 to "intel" starting with version 2.0 [07:46] ScottK: Should I file one bug affecting feisty, edgy, dapper, or separate ones for all, or just bother with feisty since the others have nvu? [07:46] for Ubuntu, rather than use the alias, we held back i810 to version 1.7.4 [07:46] as far as I know, there is no "newer" version than that, as development on that driver ceased when intel took over [07:47] however because the driver is aliased on some platforms, there is a risk that when people say "new i810" they could mean "intel" [07:47] bryce, oh interesting. [07:48] the linked-to instructions however do seem appropriate to our i810 (references to 915resolution, date on posts, et al) [07:48] as a general rule though, starting with Gutsy you should not need to worry about the i810 driver... encourage users of it to switch to intel [07:50] hrm, now why is it that when I specify "iface eth1 inet static" and give it a static address it keeps coming up with a dhcp-provided one... hrm [07:50] ironically, this is my mythtv box doing it. ;-) [07:51] bryce, well the thing that sparked this was that a user had to switch to i810 on a mac mini [07:51] using gutsy [07:52] and pointed me at that, so i was a bit confused with regard to taht [07:52] ahh [07:52] they had said they couldn't get higher resolution otherwise [07:52] that sounds wonky [07:53] yeah that's what i thought. [07:53] well, as long as they know that i810 is not going to be supported and that they're more or less on their own with it... [07:53] while the intel driver does have its bugs, at least people will be working on it [07:54] the guy posted this in our thread for showing what hardware works and doesnt on mythbuntu. i'll have him form a more complete thread and bring this discussion to him. [07:54] thanks bryce :) [07:55] sounds good, sure [07:55] bryce, oh and about openchrome. i forgot to tell you before why i never filed the MIR. [07:55] there was finally a real release of it [07:55] and it uses a full out different driver name and all [07:55] wow [07:55] i considered doing the whole UVFe thing for it, but this late into the cycle i know its going to break some of the ubiquity stuff we have coded for mythbuntu [07:56] so i don't want to bother at this point [07:56] ScottK: Bug #149715 filed. [07:56] Launchpad bug 149715 in feisty-backports "Please backport KompoZer 0.7.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/149715 [07:57] bryce, here was the announce that i saw: http://mythtvnews.com/2007/09/20/first-openchrome-official-release-030/ === bryce nods [07:57] so for hardy i'll package that up [07:57] and then get the mir made for it [07:57] superm1: put it on your todo list to remind me once hardy starts, and we'll get it in, and make the decision about making it the default for the appropriate hardware [07:58] bryce, do you want to discuss it at uds perhaps? [07:58] sure [07:58] or not worthy of a sprint really? [07:58] probably not worthy of having a session, but maybe we can just chat about it over a beer or something [08:00] okay sounds good === khermans__ [i=khermans@nat/cisco/x-c2a8e62c4d1d81bb] has joined #ubuntu-motu === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bryce [n=bryce@c-67-169-207-142.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rob [i=rob@freenode/staff/rob] has joined #ubuntu-motu [08:05] superm1: hey I have a question for you [08:05] superm1: on my mythtv box, navigation in the menus is quite slow [08:05] this is a pretty powerful amd box with tons of memory and such, so its a bit weird [08:06] it plays video fine, and outside mythtv its quite speedy and snappy [08:08] I have a new but pretty cheap video card (nvidia G72 geforce 7300 LE), which I'm suspicious of, and I'm wondering if swapping that out with a different card might matter, or if this is something you already are aware of? [08:09] bryce, what card do you have in there right now? [08:09] its the nvidia? [08:10] yes [08:10] you have the proprietary driver activated? [08:10] nope, running -nv [08:10] if you can install the proprietary driver, it improves performance immensely [08:10] ok cool [08:10] and lets you turn on the opengl accelerated menu system [08:11] Settings->Appearance->Theme Painter after you install things. [08:16] just what is it doing that openGL fixes? [08:22] So this means that universe is frozen too? === ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Hobbsee] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | New Packages Freeze in effect | The rest of universe is not frozen. Main is. [08:24] pkern: Essentially, although the threshold is smaller. [08:24] Hobbsee: I thought we were looking for motu-uvf nods before uploading. [08:25] persia: Not until the last week, IIRC. [08:25] Hobbsee: The rest of universe? [08:25] persia: for new package exceptions, uvfe's. [08:25] TheMuso: That's what I thought... [08:25] Fujitsu: Ah. My misunderstanding then. I thought we were pushing it a week earlier this time. [08:25] Not until hard freeze. [08:25] Which will be after RC [08:25] TheMuso: the rules havent changed since last release. [08:26] Also, uploads to get manually approved, so it's at least slushy, if not frozen. [08:26] Hobbsee: But you said the resto of universe in the topic. [08:26] TheMuso: the universe is all that is or ever was or ever will be === ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Hobbsee] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | New Packages Freeze / Upstream Version Freeze in effect | The rest of universe is NOT frozen [08:26] TheMuso: there you go [08:26] therefore, main is also part of the universe [08:26] What part of universe is frozen, Hobbsee? [08:26] slangasek: not for upload rights. === persia agrees with slangasek: Main is a small subset of universe. [08:26] insignificant details on a cosmological scale [08:27] Fujitsu: nothing has changed since last week. === TheMuso leaves be. :) [08:27] Hobbsee: What? I am confused. Is there a part of universe that *is* frozen? [08:27] Fujitsu: therefore if you want a feature freeze exception, uvf exception, etc, you can still get them, but bugfix releases are fine, as per the new policy === ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:Hobbsee] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages | New Packages Freeze / Upstream Version Freeze in effect - The rest of universe is NOT frozen [08:28] Fujitsu: if you upload something with a bunch of new features, without an exception, yes, you'll still get killed. [08:28] I don't see the diff in the last change. [08:28] Oh, like that, I see. [08:28] persia: | --> - [08:28] Fujitsu: like i say, same as the last few weeks. [08:28] Hobbsee: Thanks. === zakame [i=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame] has joined #ubuntu-motu === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === RobinD [n=robind@69-30-77-125.dq1sn.easystreet.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === effie_jayx [n=valles@ubuntu/member/effie-jayx] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Nightrose [n=lydia@port-87-234-157-150.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #ubuntu-motu === BBalde [n=bbalde@196.209.171.251] has joined #ubuntu-motu === BBalde [n=bbalde@196.209.171.251] has left #ubuntu-motu [] === jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:52] Are svg or png files better for icons? === perher [n=per@c-51f872d5.1316-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu === lamego [n=Future@89.152.209.8] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:56] YokoZar1: svg usually looks nicer, but both work. [09:57] I have both sent to me, so I guess i'll use the svg === jussi01 [n=jussi@dyn3-82-128-184-134.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [09:57] YokoZar1: If you have both, you may as well install both, and just not pass the extension: that way the environment can select the best. [09:57] oh, good point [09:57] didn't realize it didn't need an extension [09:58] YokoZar1: Depends on the context. If you're using a library pixbuf loading routine, it should auto-select. If you're actually loading the file, you need the extension. [09:58] persia: these are going into .desktop files [09:59] persia: i have wine.png and wine.svg, I'm assuming I can just put Icon=wine into the .desktop file and copy both to /usr/share/pixmaps? [09:59] YokoZar1: That's what I thought. No extension. No path. Just drop it somewhere in the iconcache directories (I usually use /usr/share/pixmaps) [09:59] /usr/share/pixmaps is what the freedesktop.org spec calls for [09:59] YokoZar1: Exactly. That's best practice, because then someone could create wine.xpm as part of a theme, and override the default. === buzztracker [n=buzztrac@pelikan.garga.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:01] Regarding the interleave: I thought the spec only indicated that path as preferred, and that menu systems were supposed to also search there, but that implementors could generate the icon cache in any desired manner. [10:01] http://standards.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec-latest.html [10:02] err wrong link [10:02] Icons and themes are looked for in a set of directories. By default, apps should look in $HOME/.icons (for backwards compatibility), in $XDG_DATA_DIRS/icons and in /usr/share/pixmaps (in that order). Applications may further add their own icon directories to this list, and users may extend or change the list (in application/desktop specific ways) [10:02] http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-latest.html [10:03] Right. /usr/share/pixmaps is required to be one of the source directories when building the icon cache, but there may be others (and are in Ubuntu). === pochu [n=emilio@23.Red-83-57-166.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:04] persia: ahh. So, another question regarding the menu [10:04] Wine adds its own menu entry (Applications->Wine) [10:04] YokoZar1: It's my favorite type of question to answer :) [10:04] I'd like to put some of the Wine bundled apps (eg notepad) into there [10:05] But Wine doesn't generate that submenu until a user runs Wine once [10:05] YokoZar1: Is intended as a user menu, or a system-wide menu? [10:06] So Wine has your user apps (say, stuff you install into ~/.wine) as a user menu, but I guess I'd like to create a Wine system-wide menu to shove some wine-specific things into (eg, regedit and winecfg) [10:06] It's kinda weird having them elsewhere (say, in System->Preferences) [10:07] YokoZar1: Hmmm.. I'm not deeply familiar enough to understand how user menus and system menus are merged, but I suspect you'll want to play with installing something to /etx/xdg/menus [10:08] s/etx/etc [10:09] Do you know where Wine would copy its user level one so I can use that as a template? === amachu [n=amachu@59.92.89.68] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:11] ahh, nevermind. It appears Wine copies stuff into ~/.config/menus/applications-merged [10:11] YokoZar1: If it was a pure system menu, I think you'd put an entry in /etc/xdg/desktop-directories/, but for a merged menu, you might need to do something special (check http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/menu-spec-latest.html, and the source for gnome-menus for ideas. [10:12] YokoZar1: That's roughly comparable to /etc/xdg/menus/applications-merged, but the tricky part is making sure any new local ($HOME) entries show up properly in a system menu (something I've not tested) === MagnusR [n=magru@c83-252-222-139.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-motu [10:14]