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pkernSo should we actually suggest users with ATI graphics to upgrade to Gutsy?01:10
persiapkern: Not yet :)01:15
imbrandonok i'm off to dinner, if pochu comes back arround the upload is done01:16
=== imbrandon bbiab
pkernpersia: Not even after the release I am afraid, at least not on laptops.01:16
Joe_CoTpersia: got the updated changelog deb diff for LP #149050. Would you be able to sponsor it? Should i subscribe to sponsors instead?01:22
ubotuLaunchpad bug 149050 in deluge-torrent "Deluge torrent client: Cannot set file priority, as it continually claims that Full Allocation is not set" [Undecided,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14905001:22
persiaJoe_CoT: You'll always want to subscribe to sponsors when you have something ready, rather than looking for individuals.  I'm not sure I'll be sponsoring anything else for gutsy, but if I do, and nobody else has already uploaded it, I may.01:24
Joe_CoTpersia: ok, thanks, i'll subscribe it01:24
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superm1pkern, why not?01:33
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pkernsuperm1: Decide: Which one do you like most: suspend or 3d acceleration?01:34
superm1pkern, ah :)  wasn't sure if suspending was the thing to accuse this time around :)01:35
superm1i'm on the beta team and suspending has been broken for some time for me, so i've just learned to not suspend, wasn't sure if it was still broke :)01:35
pkernI'm used to suspend ever since I used an iBook.01:36
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bluefoxicyis vmware-server not coming for gutsy?01:50
bluefoxicyvmware-player and virtualbox lack kernel modules ...01:51
pkernThere was a recent article on planet.u.c about the vbox modules.01:51
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pkernScottK: python-debian supports Version objects (and changelog objects) so that would be a no-brainer. ;)02:00
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pkernScottK: But maybe we should talk with pitti *first* to confirm if the format still holds.02:01
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LaserJockso did I miss something? why have I got ~350 updates today?03:33
imbrandonslow mail server ?03:34
imbrandonno idea, was a wild guess03:34
LaserJockit just seemed odd for an RC freeze03:35
imbrandoni only made one upload and it was a approved , sponsored upload03:35
LaserJockI've gotta upload edubuntu-docs tonight03:36
crimsunpfft.  It's no fun if there aren't hourly multi-hundred MiB updates!03:38
imbrandoncrimsun: hehe yea03:39
LaserJockcrimsun: hello03:39
LaserJockcrimsun: how's Washington?03:44
crimsunit's capitol-y.03:45
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imbrandonnice word :)03:50
LaserJockI spent a week staying out by Arlington for an American Chemical Society meeting03:53
LaserJockit was fairly nice03:53
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bddebianwhoa, crimsun!04:53
bddebian^--- there :-)04:54
bddebianOK I'm working with the Debian games team now and I'm still not convinced that svn doesn't SUCK for package management :-)04:55
imbrandonsvn* damn04:57
bddebianI knew what you meant :-)04:57
imbrandonrevision control systems, svn,cvs,bzr04:58
=== Fujitsu ponders going on a wontfixing spree through universe at some point.
imbrandongreat for code, sucks for package management, imho, package mnagement seems to be much more a "one man job"04:59
bddebianHeh, go for it04:59
bddebianFujitsu: Just mark them all won't fix after Gutsy releases ;-P04:59
=== imbrandon ponders fixing some last minute universe bugs
bddebianWe'll just start fresh after every release from now on..05:00
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Hobbseeimbrandon: get to it : )05:03
HobbseeFujitsu: sounds good.05:03
imbrandonheya Hobbsee05:03
bddebianHi Hobbsee05:04
Hobbseehi bddebian05:04
whiteanyone wants (or is) subscribed to05:07
whiteor at least checking05:07
Fujitsuwhite: Aha, I'll subscribe.05:07
bddebianMore spam.. :)05:07
whiteFujitsu: is the universe security team active?05:08
whiteit would be nice to get cooperation done :)05:08
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bddebianIs there a universe security team?05:08
whitei could do some randon checking now :)05:09
white!info util-linux gutsy05:09
ubotuutil-linux: Miscellaneous system utilities. In component main, is required. Version 2.13-8ubuntu1 (gutsy), package size 426 kB, installed size 1364 kB05:09
tonyyarussobddebian: motu-swat, iirc05:09
whiteor easier, someone could check, if the security fixes from http://security-tracker.debian.net/tracker/status/dtsa-candidates are included in gutsy05:11
Amaranthwhite: You probably want to talk to pitti or keescook05:12
whiteAmaranth: apparently they are doing main05:13
whiteAmaranth: i was offering something for univers05:13
Amaranthwhite: util-linux is in main05:13
whitethe version 2.13-8ubuntu1 looks fixed to me05:15
LaserJocksecurity-tracker.debian.net is so awesome05:15
whiteAmaranth: and i am bringing it up, because i forget to theck here and it would be nice to get an ubuntu person to do it05:16
whiteLaserJock: indeed :)05:16
LaserJocksaved me loads of time doing the moodle MIR05:16
Amaranthmoodle? isn't that an edubuntu thing?05:16
Amaranthoh right, you're an edubuntu guy :P05:16
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LaserJockAmaranth: pfft05:19
LaserJockhmm, still need to get that interview up :/05:19
=== Hobbsee hides
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=== Hobbsee pokes LaserJock back, with the Long Pointy Stick of DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
tonyyarussoHobbsee: Do you have a shortcut for that phrase?05:28
=== ScottK moves to the other side of the room from tonyyarusso.
ScottKtonyyarusso: Did you see my comments on the kompozer backport request?05:33
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tonyyarussoScottK: I saw one, to the effect of "sounds like a good idea - test?"05:33
ScottKThat one.05:34
ScottKPlease test.05:34
tonyyarussowell, um, it's installed on my feisty system right now, does that count?05:34
ScottKYes. it does.05:34
ScottKJust say in the bug that you've built and installed it on Feisty and it works.05:35
tonyyarussoOkay.  It builds both in a local pbuilder and on LP PPA.05:35
ScottKI need it in the bug.05:36
=== ScottK looks.
ScottKtonyyarusso: Acked to the archive.  They usually do backports about once a week.05:38
tonyyarussoScottK: neat.  Any thoughts on whether we should try for Edgy/Dapper as well?05:39
ScottKHobbsee: Would you please ack Bug #148548.  We updated gnucash, we really ought to do the docs too.05:40
ubotuLaunchpad bug 148548 in gnucash-docs "Gnucash-docs is 2.0.1 while it should be 2.2.0" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14854805:40
ScottKtonyyarusso: Can you test on Edgy/Dapper?05:40
tonyyarussoScottK: If I take the time to read some pbuilder docs, yeah.  There's already a PPA build for Edgy as well.05:49
ScottKtonyyarusso: It's not just building.  I need you to say it installs and runs.05:50
tonyyarussoScottK: I can test that for Dapper for sure; not sure where I'll find an Edgy installation.05:51
tonyyarussoI'm sure if I ping enough people I could.05:51
tonyyarussono experience in that department..05:52
tonyyarussoLive CD could work I suppose05:52
imbrandonor "pbuilder-edgy login' then install and test it05:54
tonyyarussowhat now?05:54
imbrandonas in ?05:55
tonyyarussopbuilder-edgy login would just let you log into the command line system of the base.tgz, I take it?05:56
tonyyarussoHow would I test a graphical app in that environment?05:56
ScottKLiveCD would do it.  Dunno about the rest.05:57
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LaserJocktonyyarusso: install it and launch it?05:58
tonyyarussoLaserJock: would it use my feisty's X?05:59
LaserJockI suppose05:59
nenolodX is X. it doesn't really change ABI very often05:59
nenolod(Xlib, that is)05:59
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imbrandonyou might need to allow X connections from localhost, like 'xhost +` prior to pbuilder login06:00
imbrandontonyyarusso: ^ but other than that should work fine06:01
jdongimbrandon: xhost + is a big more than localhost if the system is not properly configured though ;-)06:01
nenolodoh, use X inside a pbuilder?06:02
imbrandonyea if you dont setup your router correctly it can be a security bug, man xhost for more indepth info06:02
nenolodhe just needs to do xhost +localhost06:02
nenolodit'll work provided that your debian/rules sets DISPLAY=:006:02
jdongnenolod: right, I was gonna say xhost +localhost is more cautious06:02
nenolod(probably in configuration phase, right?)06:02
imbrandonshouldent matter, should default to 006:03
imbrandonerr :006:03
imbrandone.g. the following should work fine , `xhost +localhost` `pbuilder-edgy login` `apt-get install amarok` `amarok`06:04
nenolodDISPLAY must be set, otherwise Xlib will not connect to the X server06:04
nenolodthere is no defaults in Xlib06:04
nenolod(and thus any toolkits ontop of Xlib, e.g. Qt)06:05
imbrandone.g. the following should work fine , `xhost +localhost` `pbuilder-edgy login` `apt-get install amarok` `export DISPLAY=:0` `amarok`06:05
imbrandonno source changes06:05
LaserJockwell, I used to use a chroot and bindmount ~/ and it's work fine for that kind of thing06:05
imbrandonLaserJock: esentialy the same thing06:05
imbrandonpbuilder is just a self cleaning [sic]  chroot06:06
LaserJockright, but I believe that getting ~/ and hence .Xauthority into the chroot was the key thig06:06
jdongimbrandon: for X /tmp needs bindmounting too; that's where the sockets usually are06:08
imbrandonnah there should be a tmp in the chroot, you dont want to nessesarly give it access06:14
nenolodjust do xhost +localhost and export DISPLAY=:006:19
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Hobbseetonyyarusso: perhaps.06:30
HobbseeScottK: please do it.06:30
ScottKHobbsee: OK.06:31
Hobbseetonyyarusso: there are ways to test grapical bits in a chroot.06:31
ScottKHobbsee: I already test built it, so I'll turn it into a sync request.06:31
Hobbseeah, you found it06:31
HobbseeScottK: great06:31
HobbseeScottK: will leave you to handle it then06:32
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bddebiannot here please :-)06:42
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ScottKHobbsee: Done.06:44
ScottKjdong: You still around.06:44
jdongScottK: half-awake, but yeah06:44
ScottKjdong: What happened to all the backports testing people?06:45
=== Hobbsee ate them
ScottKjdong: I think you need to rustle up some more ...06:45
jdongScottK: I'm not sure myself, seems like a lot of them are mysteriously idle06:45
ScottKHobbsee: Yummy?06:45
jdongScottK: I'll send out an e-mail to the backports testing folk and see if I can whip em back06:45
ScottKjdong: Then Hobbsee's explaination fits...06:45
jdongScottK: lol they're nutritious :)06:46
ScottKOr however you spell that word.06:46
ScottKjdong: Remember: Sleep is for the weak.06:46
ScottKYeah, that.06:46
jdonglol, but I am weak :)06:46
=== LaserJock thinks about strangling the person who decided that "using your computer in your own language" was important ;-)
ScottKLaserJock: I'm not sure, but that may be a CoC violation, so don't do it on IRC.06:48
=== Hobbsee wonders why this music has stopped working.
LaserJockwahoo, it works06:53
LaserJocknow all those non-English speaking people can read the docs06:53
LaserJockI've spent the last 3 hrs working on the translations for edubuntu-docs06:55
LaserJockhad to build several scripts06:56
LaserJockand rewrite debian/rules06:56
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bddebianGnight gang07:07
LaserJock\o/, uploaded07:20
LaserJockhopefully that's my last upload for gutsy07:20
LaserJocknow hopefully slangasek or pitti lets it threw07:21
LaserJockhmm, *through07:21
HobbseeLaserJock: we have more than 2 people in the release team, fortunately :P07:21
LaserJockI thought one of those two had to approve an RC freeze exception07:22
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LaserJockshesh, the gutsy branch of doc team svn repo is ~550MB08:11
ScottKLaserJock: That's nothing.  I remember some guy talking about doing a checking of the Debian LaTex tree and it being huge.08:12
LaserJockumm, that was me08:13
LaserJockand it was 20GB08:13
ScottKI know.  I just thought it was kind of funny that way.08:13
LaserJockheh, right08:13
LaserJockbut we're supposed to move the doc team repo to bzr08:14
LaserJockwhich makes 500MB a bit more troublesome to me08:14
ScottKBut bzr is wonderful.  Everyone here says so.08:15
LaserJockheh, I haven't really gotten that impression exactly08:15
LaserJockit's great for local stuff08:15
LaserJockbut the remote stuff is still so slow08:15
LaserJockbut the doc team repo is the last Canonical svn repo08:17
LaserJockso the sysadmins don't want to maintain it anymore08:17
ScottKWell good luck.  I'm off to bed.08:22
LaserJockcya ScottK08:22
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slangasekimbrandon: packages don't have to be acked by the release team before being uploaded, if they're uploads to main and they don't fit the freeze rules they can just be rejected :)09:39
AnAntHello, if I am making a package for a work that is under LPPL license, the complete text for this license is not in /usr/share/common-licenses/, should I then include the complete text in the debian/copyright file  ? or is it enough to have something like this statement: http://pastebin.com/m16fc5080  ?09:41
=== Fujitsu wonders if he can safely hijack a UVFe that was approved a month ago but never fulfilled.
persiaAnAnt: The complete text of the license should be in debian/copyright.  The URL may not be available to a user (perhaps they are offline) when they check.09:44
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AnAntpersia: how about installing it in /usr/share/common-licenses/ ?!09:46
FujitsuAnAnt: Is it a particularly common license?09:46
AnAntFujitsu: for those using LaTeX, I think so09:47
persiaAnAnt: That directory is reserved for common licenses, for which large numbers of programs are using.  As an example of the threshold, the ISC license is not included, and we've heaps of ISC code.  Similarly, none of the CC licenses, although that is fairly prevalent.09:47
persiaAnAnt: If you think it's common enough, feel free to post a bug against base-files to include it: be sure to list all the packages that use it in the bug, to demonstrate that it would save significant space on a user's system.09:49
AnAntok, how can I indent several lines with 4 spaces in vim ?!09:50
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AnAntnevermind about the last question09:56
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FujitsuHobbsee: Are you still around?10:04
HobbseeFujitsu: fsvo around, what's up?10:04
FujitsuHobbsee: Just wondering if I'm going to be killed for uploading a new upstream version, the UVFe for which was filed by somebody else, and approved a month ago.10:05
HobbseeFujitsu: unlikely10:06
Hobbseealthough why wasnt it uploaded then?10:06
Hobbseethat's a good question, actually10:06
FujitsuHobbsee: REVU was down, and the reporter isn't a MOTU.10:06
FujitsuSo it got lost.10:07
Hobbseeah yes10:07
Hobbseeno idea if archive admins will get time to review it10:07
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FujitsuAre they meant to be reviewing things at this point?10:07
FujitsuI thought they were just giving them a glance and letting them through.10:07
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HobbseeFujitsu: for new packages?  dream on.10:11
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FujitsuHobbsee: `a new upstream version'10:12
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nenolodslangasek, yay for auto-rejections :P10:25
nenolodFujitsu, a new upstream version won't be approved until gutsy ISOs are built. if you're shooting for gutsy +1 and your package is OK, then it will probably pass through reviewers at that time10:27
nenolodbut... uploads targeted at gutsy itself will likely be auto-rejected :P10:27
persiaauto-rejected?  I don't think that's the case for packages not destined for ISO inclusion (or, really, anything in universe).10:28
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nenolodwell ISO building also includes gutsy archive finalization too10:29
nenolodand even the topic says universe is frozen for upstream versions and new packages10:29
Fujitsunenolod: Erm, what? ISOs have very little to do with anything, it has already been approved, and I'm a MOTU so it doesn't need review.10:30
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nenolodFujitsu, well ok :P10:31
persianenolod:  That seems to contradict https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2007-October/002411.html.  Are you sure?  Why?10:32
nenolodpersia, i'm going by what is implied by the text in the topic10:32
Fujitsunenolod: Right, UVF and NPF in effect. I have an exception, although it is old.10:32
persianenolod: Ah.  Yes.  New upstreams are frozen.  There is a freeze exception process, and so some (very few) things can be approved.10:33
nenolodpersia, yes i understand that.10:33
nenolodFujitsu, yes. i understood that point. hince the "well, ok"10:33
sladentwo week folks, then we can upload whatever we want!10:35
Fujitsusladen: Two weeks + UDS + toolchain settling.10:35
nenolodi do hope that gutsy will ship with audacious-plugins that are not built with SSE210:36
Fujitsunenolod: Why?10:36
DarkMageZcause some of us don't have sse210:36
nenolodFujitsu, because not everyone has SSE2 ;)10:36
persianenolod: If it doesn't detect at runtime, that's a bug (and should be reported).10:36
nenolodit has been reported10:37
nenolodupstream anyway10:37
FujitsuI don't see the bug in Ubuntu..10:37
nenolodyeah, i'll check10:37
nenolodah. it's debbugs10:38
persianenolod: It's a good idea to get the bug in both places, if it's verified an issue in Ubuntu: upstream may have a different threshhold ("I cannot imagine why anyone would want to not use optimisation" is something I recently saw on a different upstream mailing list).10:38
ubotuDebian bug 423833 in audacious "audacious: Crash (illegal instruction) when playing MP3 file" [Normal,Fixed] 10:39
nenolodof ypi want, o10:39
nenolodlets try that again10:39
nenolodif you want, i'll clone it in LP10:39
Fujitsunenolod: If you could file a bug in LP, and add a Debian task linked to that bug, it'd be nice.10:40
nenolod(it's fixed in debian)10:41
nenolodgutsy has it already10:41
Fujitsunenolod: Yeah, we have that version.10:42
nenolodgreat :P10:44
nenolodbecause some people have flamed over that already10:44
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nenolodi need to report a bug in NetworkManager, but I think I will wait until morning for that10:46
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nenolodi'm not awake enough to think right now ;)10:46
nenolodi'm also not yet convinced that it is not a bug in madwifi too ;)10:47
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pkernLongPointyStick: Thanks. ;)11:51
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pkernHaha@everybody loves the Debian cabal.01:11
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DEVIUShi all01:17
AlinuxOSHello All ;)01:18
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DEVIUSI'm about to take www.ubuntu-ge.org domain and make it Ubuntu official support for georgian users01:21
AlinuxOS+ setup Ubuntu LOCO team.01:21
AlinuxOSDEVIUS, let's try on #ubuntu-locoteams01:23
AlinuxOSmaybe someone is alive :)01:24
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persiaWould anyone with a i386 and working GL be willing to test something for me?01:33
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Fujitsupersia: Sure.01:33
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persiaFujitsu: Thanks.  launch torcs, make sure your audio backend is set to openal, get around the first curve of the default course, and hit something (another car, the wall, etc.).01:34
persiaIt crashes on AMD64 due to differences in MMX compilation from gcc3.x to gcc4.x, and upstream's fix is really intrusive: I'm just not sure whether to disable the offending file for only AMD64 or for everything.01:35
StevenKYay, torcs!01:35
FujitsuWow, torcs is fairly big.01:35
=== Fujitsu downloadsd.
StevenK... but MMX is just register fildding, how would amd64 kill it?01:35
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=== StevenK works on a present for Ubuntu virtualbox users.
FujitsuStevenK: What would that be?01:36
persiaStevenK: From what I can tell, there's a difference in the way that SIMD detection works with gcc 4.0 and optimisation, such that you need to have different #ifdef statements for newer compilers.01:36
StevenK% head -n 1 debian/control01:36
StevenKSource: virtualbox-ose-modules01:36
StevenKFujitsu: ^01:36
FujitsuStevenK: Aha.01:37
StevenKpersia: But SIMD isn't MMX.01:37
persiaStevenK: Huh?  MMX is one of many SIMD APIs.  Lead me...01:37
StevenKpersia: MMX came first - SSE came after.01:38
persiaStevenK: Yes.01:38
StevenKpersia: I don't know much more than that, though. :-)01:38
persiaStevenK: Ah.  From what I can tell looking at upstream CVS and the intel docs on MMX, MMX can be SISD or SIMD, but is usually SIMD, using packed registers (4 16-bits in a 64-bit).  It seems that newer gccs use a different set of controls to decide how to optimise.  If the code is written to the old MMX target, and doesn't have good runtime detection, it may get incorrectly optimised.01:40
Fujitsupersia: I've gone a fair way around the track, and managed to run into a lot of walls (I'm *so* great at such games), no crashing.01:40
persiaFujitsu: And this is with the openal audio backend, and with working sound?01:41
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persiaFujitsu: Excellent.  Thanks for testing that.  I'll only disable MMX for x86_64 targets then,01:42
=== StevenK pictures Fujitsu listening to "vroom, crash, vroom, crash, ..."
FujitsuMore `vroom, crash, skid, spin, oh look at that car that has lapped me for the second time'01:42
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persiaFujitsu: You can choose everyone's cars if you want.  It's a little easier if you have a F1 and they have dune buggies.01:43
Fujitsupersia: I'm sure I'd still lose.01:44
persiaFujitsu: Then you have special skills :)01:44
=== Fujitsu goes back to something a little better. Like coding.
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persiaStevenK: As the master of all library transitions: could you suggest any means to make sure that a modified libopenal0 works with all the rdepends without finding a way to expose the MMX issue in each game?01:45
rexbronpersia: how goes it?01:46
persiarexbron: It appears that I've found an issue upstream fixed last march, but somehow never got merged.  If only it were earlier in the dev cycle...01:46
rexbronbut it will be fixed upstream for hardy correct?01:48
persiarexbron: Depends.  Upstream hasn't actually had a release in a while, and is sponsored by Creative and Apple, so most of the development has been targeted towards Windows and Mac OS X.01:49
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rexbronpersia: best of luck (and lots of good work) then01:51
persiarexbron: Thanks.01:52
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persiaAnyone feel like packaging a 1-line SRU for Dapper?  #86212.02:23
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DktrKranzhi persia, welcome back :)02:25
persiaDktrKranz: Thanks.02:26
DktrKranzI looked at that bug, a user already provided a patch02:26
DktrKranzmaybe he could do the job02:26
DktrKranzif not, I will be happy to manage myself02:26
persiaDktrKranz: Right.  Someone just needs to make a Dapper debdiff, and go through the SRU process.  It's easy, but needs someone to watch it.02:26
persia(and verify the problem & solution in Dapper).02:27
DktrKranzno proble to verify it02:27
persiaDktrKranz: Great.  Thanks.02:28
DktrKranzgive me ten minutes, I have to finish a couple of things before...02:29
persiaDktrKranz: No big rush.  The bug has been around for a while :)02:29
DktrKranzI see :)02:30
DktrKranzis it relevant for edgy too?02:30
persiaDktrKranz: I'm not sure.02:31
DktrKranzok, I'll check for edgy too02:31
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persiarexbron: I've just taken a quick look at the genpo package.  You'll want to run the lintian and linda commands recommended in w.u.c/MOTU/Contributing on .dsc, and then on the .changes when you build it.  Remember to use `bzr export` :)02:51
DktrKranzpersia, confirmed on Dapper, Edgy is affected too, could you please add a task?02:53
persiaDktrKranz: added.02:54
DktrKranzthat patch needs additional love02:54
persiaDktrKranz: Yes it does :)02:54
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DktrKranzat least, it requires an if clause to check if /var/run/smokeping is already present02:55
DktrKranzotherwise, it will raise an error02:55
DktrKranzI will report this to the user, asking if he want to manage those SRUs02:56
persiaDktrKranz: I thought the -p took care of that.  Does it not work for the final directory?02:56
DktrKranzpersia, IIRC it creates parent directories, not sure if it checks if the final one exists02:57
persiaDktrKranz: I can't replicate any issues with breaking on existing directories with -p (even in dash)02:57
DktrKranzyes, it works02:58
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DarkMageZis there a way to get pbuilder to automatically generate -dbgsym packages of anything it builds?03:40
DktrKranzDarkMageZ, IIRC you can install pkg-create-dbgsym03:42
DktrKranzif you insert it into the default set, you should get them automatically03:43
persiaDarkMageZ: Install pkg-create-dbgsym in the pbuilder chroot03:43
DarkMageZah, great :) ty03:43
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persiaAnyone with i386 and working GL willing to test the patch from bug #149806?  The test case is to compile and install a new libopenal0, start torcs, turn around the first bend, and crash into something.04:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 149806 in openal "OpenAL has unsafe MMX support on AMD64" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14980604:21
DarkMageZpersia, i'll give it a shot04:23
persiaDarkMageZ: Thanks.04:23
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DarkMageZpersia, i've pulled the orig.tar.gz & diff.gz & .dsc, but how do i apply a debdiff? patch -p0 file didn't seem to be happy04:26
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persiaDarkMageZ: No?  Hmm.  Let me check that again...04:27
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DarkMageZpersia, nvm. noob error on my part04:29
persiaDarkMageZ: OK.  I was worried there :)04:29
DarkMageZwhat was create the diff & dsc without signing again? it was something like debuild -us -uc04:31
persiaDarkMageZ: exactly04:31
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persiaDarkMageZ: Alternately, you can use a pbuilder or sbuild (or deb-o-matic :) )04:32
DarkMageZtrippy. it says my system doesn't have the dependencies. i thought that command wasn't going to try and build it.04:32
pkernDarkMageZ: -S04:32
persiaDarkMageZ: That command doesn't sign it.  -S doesn't build it.04:33
pkernDarkMageZ: Well it's called de*build*04:33
DarkMageZah, there it goes :) building.04:33
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DktrKranzpersia, deb-o-matic? did you use it in the past?04:50
persiaDktrKranz: I remember looking at it a couple months ago, but I'm fairly fixed on sbuild for now.04:51
jdongbug 15013004:52
ubotuLaunchpad bug 150130 in xserver-xgl "Xgl causes noise when scrolling" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/15013004:52
DktrKranzwell, I started to write it just because I don't like wanna-build04:52
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persiaDktrKranz: Makes sense.  I don't have enough local package needs to get much beyond just building things, although I'll probably become more interested if I ever get more than one supported architecture working at once.04:54
DktrKranzit's a wanted feature, waiting for qemubuilder to became more stable04:55
persiaDktrKranz: Now that's an interesting way to do it :)04:55
DktrKranz(I should have said waiting for qemubuilder AND qemu to become more stable, especially on sparc)04:56
DktrKranzI have kernel panics each time :(04:57
pkernWhat does deb-o-matic do?04:58
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DktrKranzpkern, it's an automatic package builder. it uses pbuilder as engine. users upload source packages on a given directory with dput (or similar) and it gets them built05:00
DktrKranzit has some good features, others will come05:01
pkernWell I use reprepro for repository management. How does it determine what needs to be built?05:02
DktrKranzit has an "incoming queue"05:02
DktrKranzit scans it on a regular basis (by default every 60 seconds), determines which package should be built (based on priority)05:03
DktrKranzand, after updating pbuilder (if there is need to do so), it starts build process as pbuilder does05:04
pkernAnd update the chroot beforehand to grok updated builddeps?05:04
DktrKranzit does only if archives has changed since last build05:04
pkernHow does it "interface" with "archives"?05:05
DktrKranzwhen fetching packages or when checking if update is required?05:06
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pkernI guess I'll look at the source next week. I want to get an amd64 autobuilder for our archive.05:08
DktrKranzwell, it's not a professional tool now, just a toy for someone who has not time to wait for pbuilder to finish long builds :)05:09
pkernWell I need something asynchronous. I would be able to register new builds in reprepro hooks but here I would need to copy the package somewhere and get the result imported into reprepro again. (The latter could be solved if the built packages are placed into a seperate queue directory and the possiblity to call a script after each build to import it.)05:11
pkernAnd although we use PostgreSQL I still don't want to install dak and/or wanna-build ;)05:12
pkernCurrently at 110 binary packages, more to come as Etch gets older.05:13
DarkMageZpersia, done. no odd results. cept for sound stuttering05:14
DktrKranzpkern, you can set a "incoming" directory as you wish, you will need source packages and related sources.changes file05:14
DktrKranzso, it won't bother reprepro05:15
pkernI don't have _source.changes currently.05:15
pkernThat's another point. ;)05:16
persiapkern: No _source.changes?  How does that happen?05:16
pkernpersia: It's Debian. We build it for i386.05:16
pkernPoint is that we don't want the second step of shelling on another box and doing a -B build.05:17
persiaDarkMageZ: Sound stuttering?  Does it do that with the libopenal0a from the repositories?05:17
DarkMageZpersia, yup. so that's not a regression :)05:17
DktrKranzpkern, you may want use a older release, when it used .dsc files to start build process05:17
persiaDarkMageZ: OK.  Thanks.05:18
pkernDktrKranz: _<somerandomarch>.changes aren't that different ;) But I would have to dig into the code if that would be a solution for me.05:18
pkernIt's a pity that Julien wrote rebuildd specific for the task of rebuilding packages.05:19
DktrKranzright, I would have used that05:19
DktrKranzinstead of writing a buggy, unuseful, redundant piece of code :)05:19
pkernI mean probably that would be solved with a wrapper around apt-get source to apt-get update first.05:20
pkernAnd then enqueue the jobs after they got imported into the archive (and after an export of the lists obviously).05:20
minghuaWTF is bug 15020505:21
ubotuLaunchpad bug 150205 in baltix "Make menu items labels more consistent and clear" [Undecided,Invalid]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/15020505:21
persiaminghua: Someone didn7t read the HIG, but noticed that it's not implemented 100%05:22
pkernminghua: Just a bit late?05:22
pkernpersia: s/didn7t/did/?05:22
persiapkern: Ah.  ' is shift-7 on my keyboard layout, and I broke my finger this morning, so my typing's a bit funny.05:23
pkernI could still kill the Gnome devs for having merged Font into Appearance. /me grumbles.05:23
minghuapersia: I wouldn't mind if he submit bugs to each package, but just one bug and subscribe everyone?05:23
pkernpersia: There was also a change in the meaning in my question.05:23
persiaminghua: I'd agree with that.  It's a per-package issue.05:23
persiapkern: Right.  The bug submitter's suggestions are closer to HIG, but not HIG compliant.05:24
minghuapkern: I personally like the new appearance dialog.05:24
pkernpersia: k ;)05:24
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pkernminghua: I use different Gnome versions.05:24
pkern(Yeah with that argument no change would be possible.)05:24
pkernCurrently I'm on 2.14 ;)05:25
minghuapersia: The bug reporter apparently doesn't realize those strings appear in other places as well, such as KDE and Xfce.05:25
persiaminghua: I thought Xfce preferred HIG-compliant naming.  I don't know about KDE.05:26
=== minghua is not sure which HIG we should follow.
minghuaThere is no FreeDesktop HIG as far as I know.05:27
persiaHrm.  There ought to be an abstraction of shared data.  http://developer.kde.org/documentation/standards/kde/style/basics/ and http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/2.0/ really don't seem to match that closely.05:29
minghuaThat's exactly my point.05:30
persiaFrom what I can tell, there'll be something new from KDE as part of KDE4 development (but I would think at least a draft would be somewhere by now...)05:31
minghuaIMHO this is just lazy bug reporting, pointing out problems and hope others will do the hard work to fix it.05:31
=== minghua is very attempted to label the scim part "Won't Fix".
persiaminghua: Well, yes, but sometimes that's useful too.  There's quite a few things I've fixed only because someone complained.  On the other hand "won't fix" or "upstream" seem appropriate responses for the busy maintainer.05:32
persia(especially for such a badly filed bug)05:33
minghuaI'm just attempted.  I'm not going to change it to "won't fix".05:33
minghuapersia: Generally I don't mind lazy bug reporting, but this one makes me quite angry.05:34
persiaminghua: You mean because the reporter didn't even bother to really firmly suggest alternatives, just whined about it?05:34
minghuaIf I change the scim part to "wishlist", and add comment about what should be done, I'll be spamming other maintainer.05:34
persiaAh, yes, making it useless for discussion.05:35
minghuapersia: No, mainly the "throw everything in one report because it's easy for me" attitude.05:36
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persiaInterestingly enough, there's a lot of traffic on the mailing lists, etc. that would imply that we prefer fewer bugs (we have too many to process), and there are several people who would start leaving "don't mass-file" comments if someone were to open a series of similar bugs, but for actual bug management, a targeted bug is much more useful.05:37
=== pkern understands the point about flooding other maintainers but feels that a meta bug is in this case appropriate. \:
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pkernProbably LP should support such meta bugs to easily track issues belonging together. \:05:39
minghuapkern: There isn't really much point about a meta bug.  Many other .desktop files don't have HIG-compliant name either, he reported those just because those are installed by default.05:40
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persiapkern: Right, but how does one handle subscriptions?  I like to be subscribed to bugs I might fix, bugs I know how to fix that I might pass to someone, bugs in the packages I watch, and bugs I have on my system.  I have little interest in other bugs, and don't want to get discussion traffic in my mailbox for those.05:40
minghuapersia: I skipped the whole thread about bug management. :-)05:40
persiaminghua: That's probably for the best :)  Anyway, it was more about LP bug statuses than about few/many or meta/targeted.05:41
minghuaSame with persia, especially since I put scim bugmails at a very high priority among my mailboxes, getting irrelevant discussions there really pisses me off.05:42
minghuapersia: Yes, I know it starts from ScottK's "LP people shouldn't tell MOTUs what is the correct way to use LP". :-P05:43
persiaminghua: I'd say it's more complicated than that, but it's not an important distinction.05:44
minghuaI know I was over-simplifying.  Thus the smiley.05:45
=== persia needs to enroll in the graduate emoticons course to interpret these things properly
minghuaHey, isn't Japan _the_ country of smileys?05:46
minghua...on a second thought, that's probably why it's possible to enroll in a "graduate emoticon course". :-)05:47
persiaminghua: Yep.  There's a heap of interesting examples in http://www.2chan.net/05:48
persiaOr, better, http://2ch.net/05:49
pkernThat looks so Japanese-ish.05:52
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persiapkern: The best bit is that 90% of users are on 320x240 or less.05:52
pkernbigon: Is there anything particular in the aiccu updates that you want to see in Gutsy?05:57
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pkernPeople continue to run into the fglrx+suspend issue. /me ponders to write a planet.u.c post.06:05
persiapkern: I believe an updated package has been prepared, and is waiting for merge (unless I completely fail to understand the issue: a distinct possibility)06:08
pkernpersia: Uh, where what how?06:09
pkernpersia: The only heared won't fix from various sides.06:09
pkerni.e. that gutsy will ship like that.06:09
superm1updated package, with what driver?  8.41 breaks any workstation cards06:09
superm1eg firegl06:09
superm1and it says in the release note for maintainers not to ship it06:10
pkernSo it will be downgraded? I don't think that solves *that* issue I am talking about.06:11
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bigonpkern: not really06:12
pkern8.37.6 is in Gutsy06:13
pkernbigon: Aye, because I tend to NACK it. Simply because there isn't really a benefit and the risk of breakage at this point.06:13
persiapkern: Ah.  Nevermind.  I'm completely mistaken (xorg ati vs. ati frglx)06:13
pkernThat issue I talk about is obviously not even considered release notes-worthy.06:15
pkernBut a post would probably be phrased too harsh.06:15
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pkernHow would I betatest Gutsy if I weren't at university... fetched one day full of updates (30M) in 5s. o_O06:40
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jdongis the APSL or whatever license Apple Darwin's userspace is under considered kosher for Universe?07:36
jdongI'm considering packaging a bit of the HFS+ utils (namely fsck_hfs and newfs_hfs)...07:37
jdongas our current ones are nearly useless with Macpods and modern HFS volumes07:37
pkernbigon: The configuration/init script problem is not a regression.07:44
pkernFun, I guess I need to revamp the debconf scripts next week. ;)07:45
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ScottKjdong: Do you have a link to the license?08:12
jdongScottK: http://www.opensource.apple.com/apsl/2.0.txt08:13
jdongAPSL 2.0 AFAIK08:13
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ScottKjdong: I think the patent provisions may be problematic.  The rest seems fine.  Not sure.08:18
jdongScottK: interesting...08:19
jdongScottK: I'll play around with the code a bit more; it's all BSD makefiles too.... gonna be "fun" to get it to build under Ubuntu :)08:19
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msseverI'm developing a program that depends on libdaemonize-ruby. Someone recently complained that there is no such package in Gutsy. Since I'm not yet running Gutsy, can someone verify this and/or find the proper name for the gutsy package?09:07
pkernThere's libdaemons-ruby...09:08
pkernDaemons provides an easy way to wrap existing ruby scripts (for example a self-written server) to be run as a daemon and to be controlled by simpl start/stop/restart commands. daemons can also run and control blocks of Ruby code in a daemon process.09:09
msseverIs that the same lib as libdaemonize?09:09
pkernThat's what I ask you :-P09:09
pkernDon't know, at least there's no libdaemonize09:09
msseverpkern: hmm I'll look onto that09:10
pkernI don't find s.th. like daemonize on rubygems.09:12
pkernJust `daemons'.09:12
msseverWell, it appears that libdaemons-ruby isn't the same as libdaemonize-ruby--which is in feisty09:14
msseverAny chance of getting libdaemonize-ruby back in Gutsy?09:14
pkernmssever: See http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=42897909:15
ubotuDebian bug 428979 in ftp.debian.org "RM: libdaemonize-ruby -- RoM; superseded by libdaemons-ruby" [Normal,Open] 09:15
msseverThanks for that link. I guess I'll update the depends field of my package and see if I get bug reports...09:17
pkernUh oh.09:17
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Kmosbug 14425810:51
ubotuLaunchpad bug 144258 in scribes "[UVFe]  Please sync scribes (universe) from Debian Unstable (main)" [Medium,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/14425810:51
Kmosneed another ack and subscribe to ubuntu archive10:51
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