[11:40] <nothlit> another one http://www.opensourcexperts.com/bountylist.html ...and wow lucasfilm is on there
[11:47] <KidProQuo> Wow, we're still on the bounty topic.... 12 hours later
[11:47] <lapo> hi
[11:48] <KidProQuo> hi lapo
[06:51] <lapo> _MMA_: I installed ubuntustudio, nice
[06:51] <_MMA_> Thanx. The dailies still need a couple of issues sorted.
[06:51] <lapo> _MMA_: small bits tho
[06:52] <lapo> _MMA_: the panel theming is kinda broken, it work only for small panels, you'll have the same effect with a bg with less issues
[06:52] <_MMA_> Yeah. Im working with Colin today on some things.
[06:52] <_MMA_> lapo: Yeah. Its known. Its a trade-off.
[06:53] <lapo> _MMA_: would be just better to kill it and use a 1x70 picture as a bg?
[06:53] <lapo> woulnd't
[06:54] <lapo> _MMA_: you won't have issue with resizing and with the window selector applet for example
[06:54] <_MMA_> We do use a 1x24px image on our panel.
[06:55] <lapo> it's in the gtkrc tho, right?
[06:55] <_MMA_> Yes
[06:55] <lapo> if you use a taller one in the panel itself you'll have less issues
[06:55] <_MMA_> But then the image gets cropped.
[06:56] <_MMA_> though....
[06:56] <lapo> uhm?
[06:56] <_MMA_> Sorry. Lemmie get back to you.
[06:56] <_MMA_> (kids need attention) :)
[06:56] <lapo> you need a 24px for the top panel but you can use a bigger one in bottom one
[06:56] <lapo> eheh
[06:57] <lapo> np
[08:14] <kwwii> panel themeing, the best reason to use kde :p
[08:17] <nothlit> maybe, with kmenu in kde4, generally kicker doesn't look so great, especially by default =p
[08:17] <lapo> yeah, but if you call a 5 years old version of nautilus innovations...erm dophin even :-)
[08:19] <lapo> lol
[09:33] <troy_s> kwwii: You are _supposed_ to be able to fully theme the panel but it is broken in Debian.  A private gtkrc deals strictly with the panel.
[09:34] <troy_s> Hopefully someone upstream will fix it... https://bugs.launchpad.net/gnome-panel/+bug/112665
[09:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 112665 in gnome-panel "/usr/share/gnome/gnome-panelrc fails to impact theme" [Low,Confirmed] 
[09:43] <kwwii> troy_s: hopefully we will have that fixed for Hardy then, it is part of my nefarious plan
[09:43] <_MMA_> kwwii: Maybe a refresh of the topic? Maybe mention the new Hardy art page?
[09:43] <troy_s> kwwii: You should keep your eye on it or bug seb to heat upstream.
[09:43] <nothlit> _MMA_: the submissions aren't that organised yet lol
[09:44] <troy_s> kwwii: It is a rather vital part of theming, and the limited kluding using pixmap stretching is awful compared to unleashing the full power of a gtk engine on it.
[09:44] <_MMA_> nothlit: Could still point to where the page _will_ be.
[09:44] <nothlit> speaking of the topic, is there any date set for the next meeting?
[09:44] <troy_s> _MMA_: Probably limited audience in here -- maybe elsewhere would help?
[09:45] <_MMA_> troy_s: Well I was just trying to think of _something_ to put up there. Otherwise its kinda bare. :)
[09:45] <troy_s> lol
[09:46] <_MMA_> The topic for #ubuntu-artwork is: Where in the world is terlmann?
[09:46] <nothlit> leaving it hanging is befitting of the current situation =p
[09:59] <troy_s> LOL
[10:14] <kwwii> _MMA_: very good point
[10:14] <kwwii> troy_s: yeah, I'll talk to seb about it at UDS
[10:16] <_MMA_> lol
[10:17] <kwwii> Guess I should spend the rest of the evening making a wiki page for Hardy
[10:17] <_MMA_> Or watching "The IT Crowd". :D
[10:17] <kwwii> instead of watching avi's from MMA
[10:17] <kwwii> I'll point the topic to that with a notice that it is coming soon
[10:18] <_MMA_> ;)
[10:22] <kwwii> there, I changed it a bit to get ready for the other changes
[10:22] <kwwii> once I get done working on my current projects I'll work on getting everything in place for Hardy
[10:23] <kwwii> first I need to get Gutsy out the door
[10:30] <kwwii> guess that is long enough now
[10:35] <nothlit> any news on artwork licenses?
[10:53] <kwwii> nothlit: nope, none yet...I asked for a good opinion from management but I assume it will take a bit of time
[10:56] <kwwii> for now I guess it is best that we do not suggest any license
[10:56] <kwwii> in particular, I mean
[10:57] <kwwii> one thing I was thinking about the CC is that although it will not be accepted by debian upstream nor OOo upstream it seems to be OK for use by Ubuntu itself
[10:57] <kwwii> but again, I'll wait for an official response on that one, IANAL
[11:02] <nothlit> oh yeah, the superguide to the wiki https://help.ubuntu.com/community/HelpOnEditing
[11:03] <kwwii> lol, several different places for editing info, how wiki-like
[11:11] <lassegul> So, anything else one could get to work on now?
[11:11] <lassegul> how about cleaning up the Incoming page?
[11:11] <kwwii> lassegul: that sounds like a great idea
[11:11] <kwwii> not sure if there is any point keeping old stuff around
[11:12] <lassegul> just put it in /OldStuff/ ?
[11:12] <kwwii> yeah, or something like PreviousReleases
[11:12] <Misosaki> Can we link to them anyway?
[11:12] <lassegul> How about on incoming we link to one page for Hardy, then one page for previous.
[11:13] <lassegul> *one
[11:13] <kwwii> Misosaki: yes, the idea is not to lose them completely but to move them somewhere more appropriate
[11:13] <kwwii> lassegul: we could do that
[11:13] <lassegul> Or should incoming be for hardy, and just link to previous
[11:13] <nothlit> i would just use #DEPRECATED at the most
[11:13] <kwwii> incoming just for the current release sounds better
[11:13] <Misosaki> One incoming for each release?
[11:13] <Misosaki> Or some kind of page for each?
[11:14] <nothlit> it takes out revision history for the old stuff, and makes it not pop up in search results
[11:14] <kwwii> to be honest, the best thing is what will work best for everyone
[11:14] <lassegul> dont ubuntu-studio do it one page for each?
[11:14] <kwwii> no personal opinion on my part
[11:14] <kwwii> _MMA_: ?
[11:14] <Misosaki> The Gutsy page might need a little cleaning though, lols
[11:14] <nothlit> #DEPRECATED: Mark this page as deprecated, i.e. further changes to the page will create no backup versions and displaying it will show the current contents (usually the reason why this page is deprecated) plus the last backup. This effectively freezes the last version of the page, makes it unavailable for searches (no hits on stale content), but keeps that content available for viewing.
[11:14] <_MMA_> um...
[11:15] <kwwii> nothlit: I guess some people might still like to search for something
[11:15] <nothlit> they can manually see it in the Incoming subpages section
[11:15] <_MMA_> This is how we do it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Artwork
[11:15] <Misosaki> Also might like to clarify the "free license" thing a bit, since it seems to be so important people attach one
[11:15] <troy_s> just delete the older crap that isn't relevant
[11:16] <troy_s> some things will be relevant, some won't... kill the 'won't'
[11:16] <troy_s> lol
[11:16] <lassegul> that was what i initally was thinking about.
[11:16] <nothlit> _MMA_: btw i would make that straight up a hardy page with links to the old ones @ the bottom or top, based on your preference, jmho
[11:17] <_MMA_> Its that way because it shows all of our artwork pages.
[11:18] <Misosaki> Can they be migrated to the new gallery system, or will that always be only for current artwork?
[11:18] <_MMA_> Talking to me? :)
[11:18] <kwwii> Misosaki: I think we will have categories for the gallery
[11:19] <Misosaki> nods
[11:19] <Misosaki> Just so everything is in one place
[11:19] <kwwii> lassegul, nothlit: deprecated sounds like the best idea
[11:19] <Misosaki> But whatever you all decide is best
[11:20] <lassegul> gobby session is up for those who want to participate lassegs.ath.cx
[11:20] <Misosaki> lassegul: gobby?
[11:21] <nothlit`alpha> i don't see a point of a gallery system tbh if theres a ubuntu-art.org already up and running
[11:21] <lassegul> Misosaki: gedit mulitplayer mode.
[11:21] <nothlit`alpha> we should just point people there for "general ubuntu artwork"
[11:22] <nothlit`alpha> lassegul: i still don't know whether we should make an alternate page where people have the opportunity to post their theme name, link and a thumbnail or just do an autoindex of alternate submissions
[11:24] <lassegul> nothlit`alpha: i think we should do the latter
[11:24] <nothlit`alpha> the first option can still have the autoindexing on the bottom
[11:25] <lassegul> nothlit`alpha: BUt that would end up taking more work right?
[11:26] <nothlit`alpha> only if <they> want to post a thumbnail
[11:27] <nothlit`alpha> another minisketch btw :) https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/thumbnails/
[11:29] <kwwii> the whole point is to make art.ubuntu.com what we need to help people contribute
[11:30] <nothlit`alpha> the vote was for a.u.c for general contributions though
[11:30] <kwwii> nothlit: actually, I was discussing with my friend who runs that site to put them together
[11:31] <kwwii> nothlit: right, exactly
[11:32] <nothlit`alpha> general contributions or community contributions?
[11:33] <_MMA_> kwwii: Just my 2 cents here but doesnt Gnome-look fill that just fine. Especially considering that there's really no traffic on art.ubuntu.com since its launch?
[11:35] <_MMA_> Having our own place for things is nice sometimes but I feel it can also separate us as well.
[11:35] <nothlit`alpha> _MMA_: ehem 30k visitors a week even when no submissions had been added for months
[11:36] <_MMA_> nothlit`alpha: Get me the Gnome-look stats then we'll talk again.
[11:37] <nothlit`alpha> gnome-look encompasses significantly more of the entire linux community
[11:37] <_MMA_> And that still doesnt address what I said about segregating ourselves.
[11:37] <_MMA_> And that a community we are a part of. ;)
[11:38] <kwwii> _MMA_: the guy who does gnome-look.org is the same person who does ubuntu-art (and it is the same infrastructure) so this would only be a more specific part of this
[11:38] <kwwii> actually, it all started with kde-look.org (he is a kde guy)
[11:39] <kwwii> now he has all kinds of websites
[11:39] <_MMA_> You I remember you saying.
[11:39] <_MMA_> gah
[11:39] <_MMA_> I remember you saying.
[11:39] <kwwii> lol
[11:39] <kwwii> perhaps we can just point art.ubuntu.com at that site and be done with it
[11:39] <kwwii> adding our own categories, etc
[11:39] <_MMA_> Im still unsure of the need and the larger concern of segregating ourselves.
[11:40] <kwwii> well, it would be nice to be able to see what is submitted just for ubuntu without the other stuff and without having to click through searches even if the names are different
[11:41] <kwwii> maybe we should bring this back up at the next meeting
[11:41] <kwwii> seem sto be a bit of confusion
[11:41] <_MMA_> kwwii: Oh sure. Maybe the -look sites could have a "Distro tag" added?
[11:41] <kwwii> _MMA_: yeah, exactly
[11:41] <kwwii> that might work just as well
[11:41] <nothlit`alpha> _MMA_: well, originally as a place to work and avoid picture mess, but the fedora wiki gives me hope
[11:42] <_MMA_> nothlit`alpha: Though the Fedora WIKI is nice I think that the right OCD people on the Ubuntu WIKI can keep things in shape just fine. :)
[11:44] <kwwii> OCD?
[11:45] <_MMA_> Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
[11:45] <_MMA_> @google OCD
[11:45] <_MMA_> gah. Not in my channel. :)
[11:45] <kwwii> lol, anal-retentive
[11:45] <_MMA_> Sure. That works as well. :)
[11:46] <kwwii> ATAFME
[11:46] <kwwii> AllTheseAcronymsFreakMeOut
[11:47] <_MMA_> lol
[11:47] <Misosaki> lols
[11:48] <kwwii> QCIYAM - QuiteConfusingIfYouAskMe
[11:48] <kwwii> it will never end
[11:48] <_MMA_> :)
[11:48] <kwwii> from now on any answer I give will be in acronym
[11:48] <Misosaki> ITYFA?
[11:49] <Misosaki> (Is that your final answer?)
[11:49] <kwwii> IWLTAYBITIAOCDAFDA - IWouldLikeToAnswerYouButITurnedIntoAnObsessiveCompulsiveDisorderAFewDaysAgo
[11:50] <_MMA_> :)
[11:50] <Misosaki> :)
[11:51] <kwwii> NRTITLNTYWGFM
[11:51] <kwwii> anyone?
[11:51] <kwwii> NoReallyThisIsTheLastNormalTextYouWillRecieveFromMe
[11:51] <kwwii> I wonder if people would learn to live with it
[11:51] <_MMA_> NKOTB?
[11:51] <kwwii> I could kinda become a freak show
[11:51] <_MMA_> gah
[11:52] <Misosaki> NWIT?
[11:52] <kwwii> see how hard it is?
[11:52] <lassegul> EIE - enough is enough?
[11:52] <Misosaki> (Normal, what's that?)
[11:52] <_MMA_> WOW. We _must_ be bored. :)
[11:52] <Misosaki> lols
[11:52] <kwwii> ;-)
[11:53] <kwwii> _MMA_: just finished the first season in one night
[11:53] <kwwii> probably enough to drive me crazy
[11:53] <kwwii> thanks be to god that english tv has short seasons
[11:54] <_MMA_> "Did you turn it off and on again?"
[11:56] <kwwii> "Is it plugged in?"
[11:56] <kwwii> very nice
[11:56] <_MMA_> :)
[11:56] <kwwii> very true, unfortunately
[11:57] <_MMA_> The writers know the job and their audience well. :)
[11:57] <kwwii> no doubt
[11:59] <_MMA_> Im gonna order the DVDs from Amazon UK. We cant get 'em here.
[11:59] <_MMA_> Though my DVD player can do PAL Ill convert them to NTSC
[12:00] <kwwii> I could probably pick 'em up for you cheaper and bring them to UDS
[12:00] <kwwii> at least the shipping would be cheaper ;-9
[12:00] <_MMA_> Oh hell yeah.
[12:00] <kwwii> even better, I could get someone at the company to get 'em for you
[12:01] <_MMA_> Uhhh. We dont need to go that far. :)
[12:01] <kwwii> I know that if I transfered money to Jono in advance he would take care of it
[12:01] <_MMA_> Well ok. I can do whatever. :)
[12:02] <kwwii> money transfer in europe is much easier, and if not I can take care of it
[12:02] <kwwii> I'll find out and tell you tomorrow
[12:02] <_MMA_> np
[12:02] <kwwii> man, two weeks of clam chowder - can't wait
[12:03] <_MMA_> Totally.
[12:03] <_MMA_> I thought the same thing. :)
[12:03] <_MMA_> FOOD! :)
[12:04] <kwwii> as fat as I already am, going back home puts on 5lbs
[12:04] <kwwii> real food for a change
[12:04] <kwwii> how nice
[12:04] <_MMA_> ;)
[12:04] <kwwii> maybe I should bring some sauerkraut and sausage for the americans
[12:04] <_MMA_> :)
[12:04] <nothlit`alpha> _MMA_: heres how i managed the picture thing :)
[12:04] <nothlit`alpha> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/SubmissionTemplate
[12:05] <nothlit`alpha> the platypus page is ready btw lol :D
[12:05] <_MMA_> nothlit`alpha: Nice. I think Ill steal that. :)
[12:06] <kwwii> nothlit`alpha: excellent work
[12:08] <nothlit`alpha> i wrote a thumbnailing script, i'll put it up in a bit as well
[12:11] <kwwii> let me know when you do, I can probably help with that
[12:11] <nothlit> its here for the moment, https://people.fluxbuntu.org/~nothlit/communitytheme/hardy/thumbnail also has svg support, but will need inkscape
[12:12] <kwwii> the most important thing is that it only makes a few columns of pics
[12:12] <kwwii> I think that we cannot assume that everyone will use svg
[12:12] <kwwii> we need to make the thumbnails out of the exported pngs or whatever
[12:12] <nothlit> will only need inkscape if it comes across svgs lol
[12:12] <nothlit> will thumbnail the image in whatever format it was originally in
[12:12] <nothlit> has a gui :)
[12:13] <kwwii> cool
[12:13] <kwwii> can't hurt then
[12:13] <kwwii> I will add a montage script for imagemagick later
[12:20] <lassegul> kwwii: people have posted all kinds of crap to the /Ideas page. Mind if I clean up all those ideas about how to make the default desktop better, like "Windows over the panel", possibly collecting them to their own page. though that might allow it to evolve to a whole another level of crap.
[12:24] <kwwii> lassegul: I would simply put everything into another section like PreviousReleases or whatever as everything that comes next will be different
[12:24] <kwwii> of course, if you feel like you can make more sense of it than the simple sentence I just stated feel free
[12:25] <kwwii> maybe there is a good reason to put some ideas together and leave them in Ideas
[12:25] <lassegul> kwwii: hmmm. im cleaning up /Gutsy/Ideas and /Gutsy/ConceptArt  and organizing them into Gutsy/Alternate/
[12:25] <kwwii> sweet
[12:25] <lassegul> kwwii: so i dont think  they fit in the attic, maybe.
[12:26] <kwwii> anything directly concerned with Gutsy or older artwork can go into another place though
[12:26] <kwwii> man, I wish that wikis where better at that kind of thing
[12:27] <kwwii> probably a lot of work
[12:27] <lassegul> kwwii: when I say gutsy i mean hardy :S
[12:27] <kwwii> ;-)
[12:27] <lassegul> kwwii: sorry to make this confusing
[12:27] <kwwii> no worries
[12:27] <lassegul> kwwii: to take it from the beginning:
[12:28] <lassegul> kwwii: people have already begun putting up ideas and concept art in these wiki pages: Hardy/Ideas and Hardy/ConceptArt (nothlit and terlmanns different versions I believe)