/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/10/10/#bzr.txt

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=== Topic for #bzr: The Bazaar Version Control System | http://bazaar-vcs.org/ | Bazaar 0.91 is out - http://bazaar-vcs.org/Download | Please complete the Bazaar User Survey - http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=L94RvLswhKdktrxiHWiX3g_3d_3d
=== Topic (#bzr): set by poolie at Wed Sep 26 07:07:44 2007
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poolieback06:08
beunoigc, now that I think of it, was in inapropriate for me to use your slides?   it just occured to me you might not of wanted them out yet06:16
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pooliespiv, hi?08:00
spivpoolie: hello08:08
spivpoolie: I'm just replying to your review; it'll be on the list in a moment.08:08
spivpoolie: sent.  I'm a bit unclear about what you wanted done to the test_suite generation.08:10
poolieok08:13
pooliei guess basically i would rather that test_suite() methods were not using testloaders and so on them selves08:13
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spivSo you'd like the loader.loadTestsFromModuleNames to be elsewhere?08:14
pooliehm08:15
spivAnd maybe direct calls to scenario_applier.adapt too?08:16
poolieam i correct in thinking that the test_check_reconcile tests are meant to be run once per (format, scenario) pair?08:16
spivRight.08:16
pooliewhy can't you do two calls to multiply_xxx08:17
poolieone for the reconcile tests, and one for everything else?08:18
spivI can, although that means figuring out what the interface to mulitply_xxx should be :)08:18
pooliewhat is wrong with the current one?08:19
spivIt also means leaving a "# test_check_reconcile is intentionally omitted from this list because it is parameterised further down." comment in the main list of modules.08:19
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poolieok08:20
spiv(that was one of the minor annoyances that lifeless' suggestion avoided)08:20
spivBy the current one you mean "adapt_modules"?08:20
pooliethough, really to me that suggests08:20
pooliemaybe it's bad to have an exception here to the rule that every test within a subdirectory is run through the same parameters08:21
spivYeah, that's a good point.08:21
pooliei mean multiply_tests_from_modules08:21
pooliebut since this isn't a different implementation, just a different test, it doesn't seem to need its own directory08:22
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spivWell, I'm not sure what you meant the interface for multiply_tests_from_modules to be, precisely.08:22
pooliethat function already exists in tests/__init__08:22
spivOh.08:22
=== spiv looks
pooliei think adding such a comment that test_check_reconcile is special08:23
spivI can certainly use that to at least improve the way I combine the disk format scenarios and the remote scenario.08:24
poolieis no worse than the current list with [format_applier]  repeated for each module but that08:24
poolieright, you can just pass in the concatenated lists rather than making an applier object08:25
pooliethen08:25
spivBut multiply_tests_from_modules doesn't do the cross product I need for the other part.08:25
poolieno, you need to generate the cross product in making your scenario list08:25
spivit multiplies tests by scenarios.08:25
pooliefor scenario_class in brokenness_scenarios:08:25
spivRight, I need to make a cross product of the scenarios.08:25
poolie  for repo in all_repo_scenarios:08:26
spivI can do that too, it just didn't occur to me and I didn't realise that's what you were suggesting :)08:26
poolie     scenarios.append(..., )08:26
spivOk, I understand now :)08:26
poolieok08:26
pooliethat actually makes it easier to trim out the repositories that don't make sense to test08:26
spivI'm not sure why I didn't know about multiply_tests_from_scenarios sooner.08:26
pooliewell, it's relatively new and not used everywhere08:27
spivYeah, rather than generating a bunch of tests that are doomed to skip.08:27
pooliei think it's a lot simpler than the lower level code though08:27
spivYeah, that will be an improvement.08:27
pooliei should probably go and update the existing callers to make them use this08:27
poolieum08:27
spiv(and it deals with my concerns about the coupling of module loading and scenario application in adapt_modules too)08:28
pooliei think it might actually be nicer if the applicability of scenarios was described on the class, not in test_suite()08:28
poolieso your brokenness tests would just be08:28
lifelessmmm08:28
poolieclass:08:28
lifelessI think that couples things still wrongly08:28
poolie  repeat_per_scenario = [every_repository, every_brokenness] 08:28
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lifelessit couples the interface of the scenario with the application08:29
lifelessI think that would be a mistake08:29
pooliewhat is 'that'?08:29
poolieputting them in the class?08:29
lifelessyes08:29
pooliei don't understand you08:30
lifelessuhm08:30
lifelessI'm focused on my refactoring right now08:31
lifelessI'll try to express myself better tomorrow or something08:31
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lifelessk folk, I'm off08:48
lifelesspoolie: 60% now I think.08:48
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raddyHello Everybody09:38
raddyIs it possible to browse and download latest commits via browser?09:38
zorg_the_falseraddy: yes there are several web front-end on the website09:41
zorg_the_falsein the 3rdpartyapps section if i remember correctly09:42
mwhudsoni'm not sure what downloading a commit involves09:43
raddyzorg_the_false: is the web front end needs to be installed in the server or in client?09:43
mwhudsonbut browse, sure09:43
zorg_the_falseraddy: dunno09:44
thumperraddy: what do you mean exactly?09:47
raddythumper: see, i want to download latest code from bzr using project, is it possible via web browser?09:48
thumperraddy: and what do you hope your web browser will show you?09:49
raddythumper: the file. or latest changes, kind of websvn09:50
thumperok, and you want to see the latest changes of bzr?09:50
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raddythumper: also want to download the specific file09:50
thumperraddy: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr/trunk/changes09:51
zorg_the_falsehehe go look  on the site09:52
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zorg_the_falseyou got screenshots and all09:52
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i386lifeless: ping10:12
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lucasvohi10:17
lucasvomy bzr doesn't run because of unsupported locales settings10:17
pooliehi lucasvo10:18
pooliei386, he's left10:18
poolielucasvo, well, you should either set your locale to one that's supported on your machine10:18
poolieeg by LANG=C or LANG=en_AU.utf-8 or something10:19
poolieor enable that locale10:19
poolieon linux, that's often controlled by /etc/localegen.conf or something similar10:19
lucasvopoolie: http://pastebin.com/m578c789e10:20
poolieare you on ubuntu or debian?10:21
pooliesudo dpkg-reconfigure locales?10:21
lucasvopoolie: ubuntu dapper10:21
pooliewhat locale do you want to use?10:21
lucasvoen_USA10:22
pooliei think you mean en_US10:22
poolieor rather en_US.utf-810:22
poolienot sure10:22
lucasvoyes10:23
lucasvopoolie: the dpkg-reconfigure did not work10:24
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poolieis en_US.utf-8 working in other situations on your machine10:26
poolie?10:26
i386poolie: ahh thanks10:30
lucasvopoolie: how can I set it?10:34
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poolieto set the locale for your shell, just do10:39
poolieexport LANG=en_US.utf-810:40
ubotuNew bug: #151208 in bzr "util/configobj should be deleted" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/15120810:40
poolieto set it for your whole session, which is generally what you want, choose the right thing from the gdm language menu10:40
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smartgpxIs the author of the mini tutorial online and available, please?06:03
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=== Topic for #bzr: The Bazaar Version Control System | http://bazaar-vcs.org/ | Bazaar 0.91 is out - http://bazaar-vcs.org/Download | Please complete the Bazaar User Survey - http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=L94RvLswhKdktrxiHWiX3g_3d_3d
=== Topic (#bzr): set by poolie at Wed Sep 26 07:07:44 2007
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ubotuNew bug: #151353 in bzr-eclipse "Package renaming fails" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/15135307:40
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ubotuNew bug: #151356 in bzr-eclipse "Invalid value in project properties" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/15135607:45
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ubotuNew bug: #151357 in bzr-eclipse "Better detection of lack of bzrxml plugin" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/15135707:56
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ubotuNew bug: #151371 in bzr-eclipse "bad char at end of log messages" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/15137108:35
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jam-laptopwow, I finally come back to #bzr and nobody is around talking08:44
jam-laptopHas the conversation gone away since I left?08:44
Pengubotu's still talking. :)08:46
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Peng[14:46:28]  <ubotu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)08:57
PengHuh.08:57
PengI should start saying that to people/08:57
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james_wjam-laptop: hi. how are you?09:41
jam-laptop!ubotu how are you09:41
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about how are you - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi09:41
jam-laptopubotu help me09:42
ubotuI am ubotu, all-knowing infobot. You can browse my brain at http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi - Usage info: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBots09:42
jam-laptopubotu you rock09:42
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about you rock - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi09:42
jam-laptopjames_w: Doing pretty well. Trying hard to get enough sleep :009:42
james_wthat must be tough.09:42
jam-laptopIt can be, depends on the day.09:43
james_wit's good to have you back though.09:43
james_wthe channel has seemed quieter on the user help front, but busier on development during .au time.09:44
jam-laptopyeah, it has been good to see Martin doing more work lately.09:45
jam-laptop:)09:45
jam-laptopHe has certainly been active at bug triage.09:45
james_wit's not that questions aren't being answered, but it seems we have less easy errors to make.09:45
james_wyeah, that's been great to see, the bug list did need some tending.09:45
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fullermdjam-laptop: Hey dere, welcome back.  How's the family?09:59
jam-laptopPretty good10:00
fullermdEggcelent.10:02
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bialix!ubotu bzr10:59
ubotubzr is Bazaar-NG, a decentralized revision control system designed to be easy for developers and end users alike. Decentralized revision control systems give people the ability to work over the internet using the bazaar development model.  See http://bazaar-vcs.org/QuickHackingWithBzr for a quickstart guide.10:59
bialix!ubotu windows11:00
ubotuFor help with Microsoft Windows, please visit ##windows or your nearest mental health institute. See http://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/1 http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm and !equivalents11:00
bialixnice11:00
bialix!ubotu python11:00
ubotuSorry, I don't know anything about python - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi11:00
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bialix_jam?11:08
jam-laptopbialix_: hi11:08
bialix_hi11:08
bialix_do you saw new version of Pyrex announce?11:09
jam-laptopyeah, seems interesting11:09
jam-laptopI'm not really sure how to maintain compatibility11:09
jam-laptopFor now, I think we just try to avoid __new__11:10
jam-laptopAnd live with the warning11:10
jam-laptop(maybe add a comment about why we aren't switching yet)11:10
jam-laptopThe problem is that we are dependent on the platform to ship the right version of pyrex11:10
jam-laptopto go along with bzr11:10
jam-laptopso it is better to expect <0.9.6 until 0.9.6 has been out for a while.11:10
bialix_plaform -- you mean Ubuntu?11:10
jam-laptopor windows11:11
jam-laptopor mac11:11
jam-laptopor RH11:11
jam-laptopor ...11:11
jam-laptopWhoever is compiling Bazaar11:11
bialix_well, IIUC, the real problems occurs with 0.9.711:11
jam-laptopright11:11
jam-laptopIs there an expected time for 0.9.7?11:11
bialix_I don't think so11:12
jam-laptopWe also can ask the packagers to make it depend on <=0.9.611:12
bialix_author of Pyrex (Greg) is very peculiar person, as I can see from Pyrex ML11:13
bialix_there is Cython though11:13
bialix_but I'm not sure how well they solve windows-compatibilty problems11:13
datodon't packagers just compile the .c files shipped in the tarballs?11:14
bialix_(and Cython use hg)11:14
dato(at least debian and ubuntu do that)11:14
jam-laptopWell, at the moment we use __new__ in a couple places, but they could just as easily be done in __init__11:14
bialix_may be switch to __init__ will be enough11:15
jam-laptopwell, it will get us through for now, I think11:17
bialix_I forget: what's important difference between new and init in Pyrex?11:18
jam-laptop__new__ happens before __init__11:18
jam-laptopIt gives you a chance to initialize your C structures11:18
bialix_aha11:18
jam-laptopbefore the Python object is created, IIRC11:18
jam-laptopBut we don't really need it11:18
jam-laptopI just did a quick "s/__new__/__init__/" and "make; ./bzr selftest test_knit test_dirstate" still works11:19
jam-laptopbialix_: do you want to submit a patch to the mailing list?11:20
jam-laptopvila: ping11:20
bialix_not now11:20
jam-laptopk, I'll send something11:20
bialix_btw, just looking at cdef class Reader11:21
bialix_there is something suspicious11:21
bialix_self.text_size = PyString_Size(text)11:21
bialix_actually self.text_size is int, but PyString_Size returns ssize_t11:22
bialix_it's nitpicking though11:22
jam-laptopExcept for in Python2.4 when it is still int11:22
jam-laptopSo I didn't worry about it11:22
bialix_I like that Pyrex now handle ssize_t natively11:22
jam-laptopPlus it would be PySsize_t11:22
jam-laptopor something like that11:23
jam-laptopWe can <int> cast it if you prefer11:23
bialix_yeah, you're right11:23
jam-laptopBut until 0.9.6 or so PySsize_t wasn't a recognized size11:23
jam-laptopsorry, recognized type11:23
jam-laptopso we had other issues with it.11:23
bialix_vila seems to be AFK11:24
bialix_btw, recently there was little discussion wo flame war) in Pyrex ML about VCS for Pyrex11:25
bialix_noone argument wons11:26
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jam-laptoppatch sent11:29
bialixjam said: "__new__ happens before __init__.It gives you a chance to initialize your C structures" -- from this point changing name from new to cinit is reasonable and straightforward11:33
mhaggerI'm the cvs2svn maintainer.  I was wondering whether there would be much enthusiasm in this community for a "cvs2bzr" based on our code.11:36
mhaggercvs2svn already has a git output module, and I don't think it would be much work to add output to bzr (given a little bit of help from somebody with bzr expertise)11:37
jam-laptopbialix: Actually I switched from __new__ to __init__ (not __cinit__) because __cinit__ doesn't work with pyrex <0.9.611:37
mhaggercvs2svn only does one-time conversions (not incremental) but it is very robust and has *a lot* of features.11:38
jam-laptopmhagger: there will probably be some interest. I know there are a couple of ways to convert from cvs to bzr (cscvs, cvsps-import, tailor)11:38
bialixjam-laptop: right, I just thinking slow about your point11:38
jam-laptopBut if your CVS parsing is superior11:38
jam-laptopthen it will certainly get used11:38
mhagger[See http://cvs2svn.tigris.org/cvs2svn.html for some details] 11:38
bialixyes, yes, yes: I have too much f interest of converting my old cvsnt repo to bzr11:38
jam-laptopI personally wrote cvsps-import, which uses 'cvsps' to parse the CVS info and build up changesets11:39
jam-laptopBut I don't think cvsps is all that great11:39
jam-laptopSo I would be happy to use a different back end11:39
mhaggerYes, I think that cvsps has known problems11:39
bialixI rememeber cvs2svn claimed it's not supporting cvsnt. something changed in last 2 years?11:39
mhaggerjam-laptop: Perhaps you are just the expert I am looking for :-)11:39
jam-laptopThough it would be nice if it could be repeated11:40
jam-laptopmhagger: most likely :)11:40
mhaggerNo, we still don't support CVSNT11:40
jam-laptopI know ddaa and lifeless both have cried some tears of blood trying to work on converting from CVS11:40
bialix:-(11:40
jam-laptopcscvs actually has some of the most advanced CVS work I've encountered11:40
mhaggerbialix: Though if you use the --use-cvs option and make sure that the CVSNT binary is used, there might be some hope.11:40
jam-laptopin that it even keeps snapshots11:40
jam-laptopso when people do manual surgery on CVS11:41
jam-laptopit can still  recover11:41
bialixcvsnt have really killer feature: pseudo-atomic commits and merge history11:41
jam-laptopmhagger: I think bialix is also looking to support some of CVSNT's extended tags11:41
bialixmhagger: it's really works for me in the past, thanks11:41
mhaggerbialix: I don't have anything against CVSNT except for the rather unpleasant very commercial community around it11:42
bialixIIUC, the main problem with cvsnt is absense of tech docs11:42
mhaggerIf a CVSNT expert wants to join forces, I doubt that it would be too hard to add CVSNT support to cvs2svn11:42
mhaggerbialix: Exactly.  And lack of developer time over in cvs2svn-land :-)11:43
bialixtime is always too little11:43
mhaggerI've only read a little bit about cscvs11:43
bialixI used TortoiseCVS a lot, and it use cvsnt internally11:43
mhaggerBut it looked like it doesn't support branches ?!?11:43
jam-laptopmhagger: the biggest problem with cscvs is it isn't very human friendly11:43
jam-laptopmhagger: Last I knew, it can support them11:44
jam-laptopbut it refuses to "guess" where the branch point occured11:44
jam-laptopso you have to give it a bit of a nudge11:44
mhaggerAh, that's good to know.11:44
jam-laptopBut yeah, I think that was one of the reasons I didn't use it over cvsps11:44
mhaggerThere are two ambiguities about branch creation in the CVS record: when and whence11:45
bialixcvscs is not working in pure windows11:45
mhaggerBranch creation does not include timestamps11:45
mhaggerand it is also often ambiguous what is the parent branch of a given branch.11:45
fullermdcvsps-import has been a good friend to me...  I like the auto-handling of branches and tags.11:45
mhaggercvs2svn has heuristics for both problems, and allows the user to specify a "hints" file to help with the second problem.11:46
jam-laptopmhagger: is it possible to store some conversion information, so that if you convert a second time, you can start where you left off?11:46
=== bialix nods
jam-laptopI know I've found that cvsps isn't terribly deterministic11:47
mhaggerNo, not yet.  I've thought about what it would take to add that feature, but it would be a lot of work11:47
jam-laptopI've had small updates cause it to shift things around quite a bit11:47
jam-laptopmhagger: well, aren't you using an intermediate DB anyway?11:47
mhaggerIMHO trying to make the conversion deterministic is not the right route11:47
jam-laptopI'm not trying for deterministic11:47
jam-laptopjust recording what has happend11:47
jam-laptoped11:47
jam-laptopso you can continue without having to start all over11:47
mhaggerYes11:47
mhaggerYou basically just have to remember the frontier of the last conversion11:48
jam-laptopconverting 175k revisions is a bit painful11:48
jam-laptop(The Mozilla source tree has ~175k revisions across 55k files)11:48
bialixour beloved mozilla tree11:48
mhaggerBut the real trick is that CVS allows history to be changed; for example, branches and revisions can be deleted; tags can be moved, etc11:48
=== fog [n=fog@debian/developer/fog] has joined #bzr
jam-laptopmhagger: which is, to my understanding, why cscvs keeps state snapshots11:49
mhaggerI use the mozilla repo for testing cvs2svn.  It converts in about 17 hours on a modest computer11:49
jam-laptopso it can say "you deleted X, I can workaround that"11:49
mhaggerThat is converting to SVN.  Converting to git should be much faster11:49
fullermdI'd like to see what bzr does to the BSD tree after the inventory gets reworked...11:49
jam-laptopfullermd: you're just trying to make me cry, right?11:49
fullermdWell, you don't have to do it with tailor this time   ;)11:50
jam-laptop(I'm a little curious to, but that is a ways off)11:50
fullermdThat alone should chop like 95% of the time off.11:50
jam-laptopyeah11:50
jam-laptopWell, Tailor using raw "cvs" to update the WT11:50
jam-laptopmeans you have an enforced 1s pause for each revision11:50
bialixbtw, guys, when I gave a talk in Kiev this spring one guy asked me about speed of bzr comparable to baz11:50
jam-laptopthough when we last tried to convert, bzr was taking 6s+ to work out the inventory11:50
fullermdYah.  Miserable.11:51
jam-laptopso it didn't really matter.11:51
fullermdWell.  Considering that's a 1s pause for each _file_ in the revision...  it still adds up.11:51
jam-laptopbialix: I would say that bzr smokes baz in all ways possible11:51
bialixhe used baz (or tla) to follow FreeBsd mainstream11:51
bialixor something similar11:51
fullermdbzr should be a lot faster now though.  That was what, aroudn 0.11 or something?11:51
bialixno, it was around 0.1511:51
jam-laptopfullermd: yeah, but it shows up as 'sleep' time, and the total %sleep was still pretty low11:51
bialixdirstate!11:51
bialixwindows locking problems!11:52
bialixyou remember?11:52
fullermdbialix: Nono, I mean last time jam-laptop fiddled with the BSD tree conversion.11:52
jam-laptopfullermd: I think it was 0.1111:52
jam-laptopthat sounds about right11:52
bialixoh, sorry11:52
mhaggerI added git output to cvs2svn a couple of months ago, and it only required two files with a total of like 300 lines of code.11:52
jam-laptopfullermd: it *might* have even been back with weaves (<0.8)11:52
jam-laptopbut I don't think I would be that foolish11:52
fullermdOh, I'm pretty sure it wasn't that far back.11:53
mhaggerOf course that is using the excellent and well-documented git-fast-import tool to actually built the repository11:53
bialixfullermd: FreeBSD still uses CVS?11:53
fullermdWe've still got at least one good dirstate fuggery around.  Get that fixed, then we can try it with the 150k file trees to find more   ;)11:53
fullermdbialix: Yah.11:53
fullermdSee http://wiki.freebsd.org/VersionControl11:53
bialixok, so I remember a question right11:54
mhaggerSo if somebody is interested to help create a bzr backend for cvs2svn, please let me know11:54
fullermdI'm just _dying_ to fill in bzr columns there.  But without inventory reworking, it'll say "bzr rocks, it's slow as molasses, and you'll need to buy a 500 gig drive to store the inventory knit"11:54
bialixmhagger: you're using some sort of pluggable architecture?11:54
mhaggerYes11:54
mhagger90% of the work is deciphering the CVS history, and the results are easily available to the output backend11:55
mhagger(It's all Python, by the way)11:55
bialixI know11:55
bialixI read the sources occasionaly11:55
bialixjust wonder how hard to add miniml cvsnt tags support11:55
bialixminimal^11:56
mhaggerbialix: Discussion of the details of adding CVSNT support should probably move to #cvs2svn.  We'd be glad to have you over there :-)11:56
bialixwell, I read man on RCS files, then I looking on my old cvsnt/TortoiseCVS repos, and have some ideas11:57
bialixbut from first view cvs2svn parsing code seems a bit complicated11:57
mhaggerHow do people get content into bzr?  Is there a documented interface or tool for adding content?11:58
bialixjam, please11:58
jam-laptopsorry, I was distracted11:59
mhagger(I.e., the equivalent of "svnadmin load" or "git-fast-import"?)11:59
bialixwe have bzrlib, it's written in Python11:59
bialixwe have very reach API12:00
jam-laptopmhagger: generally you use the python api12:00
mhaggerIs it documented?12:00
bialixyes12:00
jam-laptopIf *I* were doing this work, I would probably just adapt the cvsps-import code12:00
=== bialix nods
mhaggerSure, that's probably doable.12:01
bialixat least it's a good example12:01
jam-laptopmhagger: All of the code has docstrings (part of our review process requires them). There is some higher level documentation, though some of it could be better.12:01
jam-laptopAnd you'll find people here to be pretty helpful12:01
bialixand jam our expert12:01
mhaggerI even though about adding a cvsps-compatible output format for cvs2svn so all the other tools could use it right away.12:01
jam-laptopmhagger: well, I wouldn't recommend it12:01
jam-laptopthe cvsps output has some... issues12:01
mhaggerYes, that's what I decided :-)12:02
jam-laptopLike you can have text comments that look like meta-info12:02
jam-laptopI have a parser which generally handles it12:02

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