[08:14] <KidProQuo> When are the official guidelines for Hardy due out?
[10:26] <lassegul> fedora 8 artwork looks fantastic. with the 24 hour-by-hour animated infinity wallpaper and their really nice graphical boot.
[10:26] <lassegul> not too original maybe, but very clean.
[10:28] <Madpilot> animated wallpaper? cool
[10:28] <Madpilot> tho lately all I'd see is the nighttime versions :)
[10:29] <lassegul> Madpilot: :)
[10:37] <KidProQuo> Is there a way to hook up your wallpaper to a RSS feed of images?
[01:41] <artnay> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Interviews/MairinDuffy - mmh, animated background? didn't see that coming
[01:42] <lassegul> its pretty clean, as I understand it. Just changes the colour very slowly?
[02:21] <_MMA_> lassegul: It just looks like its a program that uses a XML file to fade between static images. http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-art-list/2007-August/msg00170.html
[02:22] <_MMA_> I gotta see how this works. Package it up for Gutsy.
[02:23] <lassegul> Do that!
[02:24] <lassegul> but does it fade continously, slowly over 60 minuits, or is it a fast fade every 60 minuits? i didnt get that.
[02:25] <_MMA_> Look at the link I posted. If you look at the example xlm you'll see.
[02:25] <_MMA_> You can set the duration.
[02:27] <lassegul> <3
[02:35] <_MMA_> I cant find where this functionality was added though.
[02:37] <_MMA_> kwwii: Do you know?
[02:45] <kwwii> _MMA_: never saw that before
[02:46] <kwwii> wow, they hacked gnome to make that work
[02:46] <kwwii> killer
[02:47] <andreasn> hm, I think that is going upstream
[02:47] <andreasn> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2007-September/msg00530.html
[02:47] <_MMA_> Yeah. Looks like something they did. I was looking for something to package but I guess not. :)
[02:55] <_MMA_> kwwii: Will Hardy move to using the "Liberation" fonts?
[03:13] <kwwii> _MMA_: not sure, to be honest I am not sure if they are really better
[03:14] <_MMA_> Well if they're no worse, I'd like the move simply because they are free.
[03:15] <_MMA_> Fedora and Mandrake have made this move.
[03:15] <kwwii> guess we would have to look into the license issues with those as well
[03:15] <kwwii> seem to be GPL but I am not sure what the font exception is
[03:16] <_MMA_> Worthy of a ML post?
[03:16] <_MMA_> I could write something up real quick.
[03:16] <kwwii> probably a good idea
[03:16] <kwwii> I was just thinking that I need to start a list of things
[03:17] <_MMA_> k. Ill do it not to simply pose the question and get responses.
[03:17] <kwwii> man, I wish I could just get done with these other projects so that I can start on Hardy
[03:17] <_MMA_> s/not/now
[03:17] <kwwii> cool
[03:17] <kwwii> see what others think
[03:17] <_MMA_> Can you Skype?
[03:18] <kwwii> let me get a new battery in my mic first
[03:18] <_MMA_> np
[03:46] <nothlit> its a joke template
[03:46] <terlmann> its good man
[03:46] <terlmann> very good
[03:47] <terlmann> man , I wake up and find linspire and mandriva have both released new versions...
[04:20] <lassegul> nothlit: ping?
[04:21] <troy_s> lassegul: Fedora 8s artwork is paltry and bland compared to where Diana was taking it.
[04:22] <troy_s> In fact, it has reverted to that ever so crappy 'curves from nothing' land.
[04:22] <troy_s> Their reputation as being the best looking distro just went for poop again.
[04:22] <troy_s> (I am still wondering where Diana went)
[04:23] <nothlit> lassegul: pong
[04:23] <nothlit> darn, i tried to tab complete po and it didn't work
[04:24] <lassegul> nothlit: Artwork/Incoming  Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas-Feedback wont disappear from the sub pages index.
[04:25] <nothlit> arg, this guy created a lot of empty page redirects
[04:25] <terlmann> I loved the curves from nothing.I just coundn't stand the rpms though.. :-)
[04:26] <nothlit> lassegul: ok its gone :)
[04:27] <terlmann> mind if I post a funny off-topic artistic link ?
[04:27] <nothlit> go ahead, as long as it fits the CoC
[04:27] <lassegul> troy_s: hmm. its not the really unique look they had before, but its certainly pretty, and its consequent
[04:27] <terlmann> http://wtfzup.com/2007/10/09/13-demotivational-posters-because-we-all-need-more-encouragement-to-slack-off/
[04:27] <terlmann> very funny
[04:32] <lassegul> nothlit: how did you manage that?
[04:32] <nothlit> went to to the original page that was the redirect, checked for contents, and deleted
[04:32] <lassegul> nothlit: where wasa the original page?
[04:41] <nothlit> it was of the same name, just with dashes in between instead of spaces
[08:46] <kwwii> oh man, I fell asleep on the couch
[08:49] <_MMA_> The best kind of sleep. :)
[08:52] <kwwii_> erm, that was freaky
[08:53] <_MMA_> What happened?
[09:10] <kwwii_> it seems that something on my server died
[09:10] <kwwii_> I can ping it fine, but no ssh connection anymore
[09:10] <_MMA_> Odd.
[09:11] <kwwii_> wow, firefox-bin uses 8.6% Memory
[09:12] <_MMA_> :)
[09:14] <kwwii_> btw. I like the murrine theme but I am not too big on the panel bg
[09:15] <_MMA_> Yeah. I just threw that in there.
[09:15] <_MMA_> I like theming it in general.
[09:16] <kwwii_> the controls look awesome
[09:17] <_MMA_> It could probably use some tweaks here and there but I tried to stay close to the Ubuntu colors.
[09:17] <kwwii_> looks pretty good overall
[09:18] <kwwii_> the orange in the active menu overlay is a bit too dark
[09:18] <_MMA_> 1 thing to change maybe is the burnt orange color on some things.
[09:18] <_MMA_> Yeah.
[09:18] <kwwii_> I had the same problem when I tried to make a gtkrc
[09:19] <_MMA_> I actually had it set to the brighter Orange but I made it more in line with the current gtkrc.
[09:20] <_MMA_> I can revise if you like.
[09:20] <_MMA_> Or you could. Your call.
[09:24] <kwwii_> I think that the only thing that is too dark is the active menu overlay thingy...could you lighten that a bit?
[09:27] <_MMA_> Sure.
[10:02] <_MMA_> kwwii_: In the metacity.xml file can things defined as: bg[SELECTED]  (just an example) be replaced with a hex color? ie: #ffffff
[10:08] <kwwii_> _MMA_: the new format wants you to define that color somewhere so that it can get the other colors around it using some math somehow
[10:08] <kwwii_> that is why I never changed the human xml :p
[10:14] <_MMA_> Hmm...
[10:14] <_MMA_> Well the only way I can change the active menu overlay also effects the metacity bar.
[10:15] <kwwii_> yeah, that was the problem
[10:15] <kwwii_> we stuck to the old style which defines everything directly
[10:16] <_MMA_> Now this is with Murrine.
[10:16] <_MMA_> If I had another color in the top section on the gtkrc I could change the metacity.
[10:17] <_MMA_> The ones defined like: bg[SELECTED] 
[10:19] <kwwii_> to be honest, that whole system is still kinda like magic to me
[10:20] <_MMA_> :)
[10:52] <kwwii_> the mailing list got like 30 spam mails today - what a fun job
[10:52] <kwwii_> funny enough it gets like 3-5 spam emails in hebrew every day
[10:53] <_MMA_> Yep. I really dont like running a ML. I have 2.
[10:57] <kwwii_> there are like 5 moderators for the site but none of them do anything
[11:01] <_MMA_> The art site?
[11:01] <kwwii_> wow, I just found a major problem with the liberation fonts
[11:01] <kwwii_> yeah, ubuntu-art
[11:01] <_MMA_> Oh?
[11:01] <kwwii_> I opened a firefox browser and typed "news.bbc.co.uk"
[11:01] <kwwii_> there is way too much space between the w and the s in news
[11:02] <kwwii_> I am using 8pt fonts
[11:02] <kwwii_> on my 1024x768 laptop
[11:02] <nothlit> i got rid of the liberation fonts, they defaulted past the dejavu and made all the font rendering ugly
[11:03] <_MMA_> kwwii_: Wow. I see it.
[11:04] <kwwii_> big time nasty
[11:05] <_MMA_> Hmm.. yeah.
[11:06] <_MMA_> kwwii_: re: ubuntu-art. Why are they there then? Id kick them to the curb.
[11:06] <kwwii_> yeah, I just took over about a month ago...I'll probably remove them soon
[11:06] <_MMA_> People love to sign up for things for the status of it.
[11:06] <kwwii_> and find a few new people
[11:07] <_MMA_> kwwii_: Honestly Im for the dismantling of it in order to stay closer with Gnome/KDE-Look.
[11:08] <_MMA_> kwwii_: Did you mention the "Distro" flag to you friend?
[11:08] <kwwii_> _MMA_: you mean the art.ubuntu.com site...I was talking about the mailing list for ubuntu-art
[11:09] <_MMA_> Ahh...
[11:09] <kwwii_> _MMA_: nope, I haven't sent him an email yet, probably do that tomorrow
[11:09] <kwwii_> I wish we could have another meeting to discuss art.ubuntu.com
[11:09] <kwwii_> I personally do not see the need for it, but it seemed like several others did
[11:09] <_MMA_> ML to the rescue!
[11:09] <_MMA_> :)
[11:09] <kwwii_> :-9
[11:11] <_MMA_> To some degree, I think if you "in charge" you should just "take charge". :) Post the question. Have some chat about it and if there really isnt a compelling reason to keep it, get rid of it.
[11:11] <_MMA_> *think if your...
[11:13] <kwwii_> yeah, probably so
[11:14] <kwwii_> I think I will spend most of my day tomorrow writing emails :p
[11:15] <kwwii_> lol, this is the treatment I need: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7037443.stm
[11:15] <_MMA_> kwwii_: So there are 5 mods for the -art ML?
[11:16] <kwwii_> _MMA_: something like that
[11:16] <kwwii_> and none of them do anything as far as I can tell
[11:16] <_MMA_> hahaha. Funny. (even though I dont drink)
[11:16] <kwwii_> when I took over being admin last month there where like 2,500 emails in the queue
[11:16] <_MMA_> kwwii_: Crap.
[11:16] <_MMA_> Wow.
[11:16] <kwwii_> I spent two whole days going through them
[11:17] <_MMA_> I need to get someone else on my team. :)
[11:17] <_MMA_> I thought it was tied to 1 person.
[11:17] <kwwii_> so now I try to keep it empty all the time but it gets really old doing it every few hours
[11:17] <_MMA_> I can imagine.
[11:17] <kwwii_> I definitely have better things to do
[11:18] <_MMA_> Like work on the wiki. ;)
[11:20] <kwwii_> or spamming the list with emails about the gallery
[11:20] <_MMA_> :)
[11:22] <nothlit> kwwii_: i'd say we just take a quick vote at pointing the domain name to ubuntu-art.org next meeting
[11:22] <nothlit> subdomains*
[11:22] <_MMA_> I just found out jorge castro is a metal guy. :) I talked to jono over Skype about Ubuntu Open Week and Boston. \m/
[11:23] <kwwii_> nothlit: the thing is, I am not sure if we can just do that on our own without getting permission from canonical as they own the domain
[11:23] <nothlit> unless both you and matthew are interested in turning it into a project management system
[11:23] <kwwii_> _MMA_: we should all bring instruments and make a quick CD in boston
[11:23] <nothlit> kwwii_: well. if we can't we can still make it unofficial wiki policy
[11:24] <_MMA_> nothlit: I just dont see the need for it when a person with vigilance could do it all on the WIKI.
[11:24] <_MMA_> kwwii_: We TOTALLY wanted to do that in MTV.
[11:24] <nothlit> _MMA_: i know, thats why i stopped pushing for the gallery lol
[11:24] <_MMA_> I didnt know enough people at the time. :)
[11:25] <_MMA_> nothlit: You said "a project management system" instead right?
[11:25] <nothlit> _MMA_: but the function i'm talking about now is all the random ubuntu-art clogging up gnome-look/kde-look, and they have a seperate site for it anyways, so both the ubuntu community and the rest of the nix community can be happy
[11:25] <nothlit> _MMA_: yeah, but that would be a one stop shop not just replacing the wiki
[11:26] <nothlit> but everything else as well
[11:26] <kwwii_> _MMA_: jono is scared I will outshine him :p
[11:26] <_MMA_> nothlit: re: clogging -look. I dont see it as an issue. Especially if a "distro" tag could be done.
[11:27] <nothlit> _MMA_: i know, but now they opened up a site for it
[11:27] <_MMA_> kwwii_: Pfftt... then I go tyou hands down then. ;)
[11:27] <kwwii_> personally I think that the existing ubuntu-art.org is enough for our purposes, if we put more info about it on the wiki
[11:27] <kwwii_> :-)
[11:27] <_MMA_> *got you
[11:28] <kwwii_> I was into death metal before they called it death metal
[11:28] <kwwii_> lol
[11:29] <kwwii_> wow, another shooting at a school in america
[11:30] <kwwii_> then again, anyone who does to a school called "SuccessTech Academy" is probably a looser to begin with
[11:30] <_MMA_> ouch... :)
[11:31] <kwwii_> _MMA_: freaky about that in germany, nudity is everywhere, they say shit, fuck, etc. on childrens TV in the mornings
[11:31] <kwwii_> and they love horror films
[11:31] <kwwii_> stupid laws, they exist everywhere
[11:31] <_MMA_> Yeah. Always struck me as odd.
[11:34] <kwwii_> well, I am off for bed now...night all
[11:35] <_MMA_> Night sir.
[11:38] <kwwii_> night man, see you tomorrow
[11:39] <kwwii_> btw. I sent a mail to the list about the gallery issue
[11:47] <lassegul> re
[11:49] <lassegul> im just wondering about the gallery again, because I thought it was such a good idea. then I worked on the wiki with you nothlit, then we changed our minds about the gallery and said that there was no need for it because of the wiki.
[11:49] <lassegul> then i tested the wiki on some buddys, not ubuntu users or artists, just techies. and they couldnt find out how to get to incoming at all.
[11:51] <lassegul> (kwwii added something about it in the getinvolved page, now its better but it certainly aint there yet)
[11:52] <nothlit> lassegul: they could see the bolded hardy link from wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork?
[11:52] <nothlit> couldn't*
[11:53] <lassegul> so when i think back (to last week) i remembered we summarized two main problems: 1. The wiki gets messy. 2. The wiki is hard to use for many potencial contributors. We(you to some extent) have fixed the first issue, with organizing and keeping it clean. But for now, problem nr 2 still stands imo.
[11:53] <lassegul> nothlit: who knows why they should go to incoming? Is the name really that obvious?
[11:54] <lassegul> But the solution to number 2 isnt necessarily a gallery.
[11:55] <lassegul> In fact, when I think again it probably isnt.
[11:55] <lassegul> lol i just made a u-turn argument
[11:55] <nothlit> lassegul: you put them on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork and asked them to get to the the most current stuff thats being worked on?
[11:57] <lassegul> nothlit: to Artwork yes, and told them: "How do you contribute". All three of them, seperatly answered mailing list. When I asked them if there was a place to put things on the wiki, they didnt know for sure, but would assume there maybe was. I didnt think that was good enough.
[11:59] <lassegul> nothlit: after i wrote these things down, I see now that I dont want a gallery but I think there still might be some kinks to work out in the wiki organizing. What do you think?
[11:59] <lassegul> "your friends are stupid" ?
[12:05] <nothlit> lassegul: i'm a little suprised
[12:05] <nothlit> lassegul: things could be made clearer yes, but i wouldn't think people would have trouble finding the page
[12:06] <nothlit> yes wiki code is a difficulty, but i would think the other thing is just basic web browsing skills, or at most a google
[12:06] <nothlit> the mailing list archives have a google search, and there have been plenty of people that have found the gutsy ideas page
[12:06] <kwwii> lol, which kwwii is the *real* kwwii
[12:06] <lassegul> hehe.
[12:07] <nothlit> terlmann?
[12:08] <terlmann> what ?
[12:08] <nothlit> nm
[12:09] <lassegul> nothlit: lets face, it, as troy says people wont probably read through the whole page.
[12:10] <nothlit> lassegul: lol, ok, we'll put a bolded notice at the top
[12:10] <lassegul> nothlit: so I guess they would probably do one of three things when they are on /Artwork. 1. Click the links to the subpages. 2. Go to get involved. 3. Go to Hardy Heron
[12:11] <nothlit> lassegul: thats why subpages to me have always been an auxilary thing at the bottom
[12:11] <nothlit> for manual browsing of the less important things not directly mentioned
[12:14] <_MMA_> nothlit: Thats why on my page the sub-pages, while not totally at the bottom, are grouped.
[12:16] <nothlit> _MMA_: as in the theme elements and misc links?
[12:17] <_MMA_> Correct.
[12:19] <terlmann> mmm
[12:19] <terlmann> needs more salt(a custom theme perhaps :-)
[12:19] <lassegul> How about skipping the Community Artwork section, let Projects link to incoming, and have incoming say "if you want Hardy Heron work, go here" "If not, go here". We have to get it shorter if people are going to read the whole page
[12:20] <_MMA_> lassegul: I think thats a good idea. Link them right to the page. No need to have then go through another page or 2.
[12:21] <nothlit> lassegul: i thought you wanted it simpler, i would think a big notice at the top would serve best
[12:21] <nothlit> and just to hardy
[12:21] <lassegul> nothlit: oh you were serious.
[12:21] <lassegul> nothlit: I thought you were making fun of me
[12:22] <lassegul> Ok, so lets do that.  _MMA_ you also agree?
[12:22] <nothlit> if i do that i'll use a ':P'
[12:22] <_MMA_> Sure.
[12:23] <nothlit> i'm not a mean person lol
[12:23] <lassegul> :-)
[12:23] <_MMA_> lassegul: Its the way I do it. ;) I worry about injecting my ideas too much though as I want you guys to be free to create. :)
[12:24] <nothlit> _MMA_: don't worry, if i don't agree i won't use it
[12:24] <nothlit> air as many useful suggestions as possible :)
[12:25] <_MMA_> ;)
[12:25] <terlmann> useful quick links in their own section.
[12:25] <terlmann> correction
[12:26] <terlmann> useful : ->
[12:26] <terlmann> set apart a small section that is all candied up with the links to common pages
[12:27] <_MMA_> nothlit: I am thinking about reducing my thumbnail size to be able to fit my examples on 2 lines.
[12:27] <_MMA_> Something rubs me wrong about it now.
[12:27] <nothlit> _MMA_: i would rather get rid of a few
[12:27] <_MMA_> Yeah. I think I get the point across.
[12:28] <nothlit> no point in making them itty bitty, just reduce it to the basic message
[12:28] <terlmann> nothing like bad info to spoil a few pieces of good intel :-( this June person was submitting , of all things , fluorescent green. Silly , silly silly.