[07:55] <kagou> Good morning
[08:55] <dholbach> good morning
[08:56] <joshk> is ubiquity-automation working in any of the gusty prereleases?
[08:56] <joshk> *gutsy
[09:24] <pitti> Good morning
[09:25] <StevenK> Morning pitti
[09:25] <Hobbsee> morning pitti!
[09:26] <RAOF> Hey pitti
[09:27] <kagou> morning pitti
[09:27] <slangasek> ogra: anything new since beta that should be added to the announcement for the RC (as opposed to the release notes)? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/RCAnnouncement
[09:28] <StevenK> virtualbox-ose-modules fails against -14 on i386
[09:28] <pitti> StevenK: eww, ABI change?
[09:28] <StevenK> pitti: Actually building the module fails, but works on amd64
[09:49] <YokoZar> Is anyone else getting a serious rendering issue in Firefox?  http://tuzakey.com/~scott/offcie.png
[09:50] <pitti> YokoZar: remind us what's wrong with that?
[09:50] <pitti> ooh, "office"
[09:50] <pitti> yeah, it handles ligatures badly
[09:50] <YokoZar> Yeah.  It's been doing that for a couple of weeks now.
[09:51] <YokoZar> Is it just my box though, or do you get that too?
[09:51] <pitti> I get it, too
[09:52] <YokoZar> Hmm.  Well if Firefox is rendering it weird...
[09:53] <YokoZar> I'm assuming it's not a problem with http://www.digg.com/linux_unix :)
[09:56] <seb128> might be bug #37828?
[09:56] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 37828 in firefox "Text rendered incorrectly in presence of ligatures and justified text" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/37828
[09:57] <slangasek> I see it with the "sans-serif" font, and not with Bitstream Vera Sans
[09:57] <slangasek> I guess I goofed when I assumed that I had inherited non-default font settings in my profile...
[09:58] <YokoZar> seb128: yup, that's exactly it.  Office uses the ffi ligature, so it comes out all weird.
[09:59] <slangasek> wow, there's an "ffi" ligature?  that seems elaborate
[09:59] <pitti> well, LaTeX has those, too (ffi and ffl), they are quite common
[09:59] <pitti> except that they actually look *good* in LaTeX :-P
[09:59] <slangasek> heh
[09:59] <slangasek> how little I seem to know about fonts
[09:59] <seb128> the bug has a dejavu suggested workaround
[10:00] <\sh> keescook, ping bug 150848 will do
[10:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 150848 in dircproxy "[CVE-2007-5226]  dircproxy segfault on blank /me" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150848
[10:00] <pitti> but with this, we should better have disabled ligatures in ffox
[10:01] <YokoZar> Either way, it's a regression compared with Feisty, so the patch needs to go in until we can wait for Hardy and Firefox 3
[10:01] <YokoZar> or some sort of workaround, maybe not that patch
[10:03] <tepsipakki> duh? amd64 does not have 'arch' command?
[10:04] <slangasek> seb128: which workaround, the ligature disabling?
[10:05] <YokoZar> sabdfl: Will you be at FOSScamp, UDS, or both?
[10:05] <slangasek> tepsipakki: what do you expect "arch" to do?
[10:05] <pitti> tepsipakki: what is "arch"?
[10:06] <tepsipakki> slangasek: return "x86_64"
[10:06] <slangasek> you mean "uname -m"?
[10:06] <tepsipakki> no
[10:06] <tepsipakki> well
[10:06] <pitti> but that's what it does :)
[10:06] <tepsipakki> maybe that works as well
[10:06] <tepsipakki> but, why does i386 util-linux have arch and amd64 does not?
[10:07] <liw> my i386 ubuntu doesn't have "arch" either
[10:07] <tepsipakki> ah
[10:07] <tepsipakki> so it was dropped
[10:07] <tepsipakki> feisty has it
[10:07] <pitti> ah, in my dapper chroot it works
[10:07] <seb128> slangasek: yes
[10:07] <tepsipakki> "arch is equivalent to uname -m"
[10:07] <tepsipakki> says man arch
[10:08] <slangasek> dropped in 2.13~rc3 or earlier
[10:08] <tepsipakki> right, time to use uname then :)
[10:16] <\sh> doko, please review bug 76807, think you forgot it with the last upload...
[10:16] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 76807 in bash "/etc/skel/.bashrc sets HISTCONTROL twice in succession." [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/76807
[10:20] <soren> Question: I see https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+package/linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-14-virtual but I don't see it in the archive, and it's not in https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+queue either.
[10:21] <soren> Where could it have gone?
[10:22] <slangasek> linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.22-14-virtual | 2.6.22-14.35 |         gutsy | i386
[10:23] <sabdfl> YokoZar: both, IIRC
[10:23] <sabdfl> and looking forward to it :-)
[10:24] <pitti> slangasek, soren: ah, with -14 it slipped to main again, demoting
[10:24] <pitti> (it is uninstallable in main)
[10:25] <soren> pitti: Oh, is the linux-image-virtual in universe, too?
[10:25] <soren> slangasek: Where is that from?
[10:25] <pitti> soren: ah, no; just -rt and -xen, sorry
[10:26] <slangasek> soren: drescher
[10:26] <soren> pitti: Why is it uninstallable in main then?
[10:26] <slangasek> but I concur that it's not visible on my mirror
[10:26] <pitti> soren: no, I misread; just lum -ume, -xen, and -rt are; -virtual is just not seeded
[10:27] <pitti> soren: I wonder why, linux-image-virtual (from -meta) is in main
[10:28] <pitti> ah
[10:28] <soren> pitti: It's not supposed to?
[10:28] <pitti> linux-virtual does not depend on linux-ubuntu-modules-virtual
[10:29] <pitti> soren: well, linux-image-virtual should pull in l-u-m-2.6.22-14-virtual
[10:29] <pitti> similar to -generic
[10:29] <soren> Sure.
[10:29] <pitti> so that's a bug in linux-meta
[10:29] <soren> -virtual didn't exist 24 hours ago.
[10:29] <doko> \sh: yes, if I need another upload
[10:30] <soren> ...so it's not that odd, really. It still needs to be fixed, though.
[10:31] <soren> pitti: Oh, I need guidance here. What I need to do now is to poke the kernel team to make the appropriate changes to linux-meta.. Should I do anything to the seeds?
[10:31] <pitti> soren: no, seeds should be fine; it's just adding the dependency
[10:32] <soren> pitti: Rock. And until then, I won't hit the archive at all or is that a separate issue
[10:32] <soren> ?
[10:32] <ogra> slangasek, * Completely redone thin client login manager with themes for all *ubuntu flavours and support for autologin as well as an optional unencrypted graphics transport mode for low level hardware
[10:32] <ogra> slangasek, (for the edubuntu section)
[10:33] <cjwatson> slangasek: (scrollback) bdmurray is correct, the help text is in debian-installer
[10:33] <YokoZa1> sabdfl: Great, we'll finally meet :)
[10:33] <soren> Is it kosher to brag about stuff that's only available in the alternate installer in the release notes? If so, I think we should definitely put the new crypt-lvm magic in there.
[10:33] <slangasek> cjwatson: yah, I opened a bug on it for you :)
[10:33] <pitti> soren: it is in the archive, it just wants to move to universe
[10:33] <slangasek> ogra: processing
[10:33] <cjwatson> mdke: (scrollback from yesterday) wasn't the major issue it was made out to be :-), it was just that gfxboot-theme-ubuntu needed a translation update
[10:33] <ogra> slangasek, * edubuntu supports collaborative document editing with the newly included gobby editor
[10:33] <pitti> soren: just about to do that
[10:34] <pitti> soren: as a small note only
[10:34] <ogra> slangasek, * all packages needed to build a moodle server are shipped on the server CD now
[10:34] <ogra> i think thats enough for an RC announcement :)
[10:35] <slangasek> ogra: tsk, trying to crowd out the other flavours, are you? :)
[10:35] <ogra> heh
[10:35] <soren> pitti: Gah... Yes, it's in the archive. I sometimes forget that my workstation is amd64 and I was looking at "apt-cache madison"'s output which obviously didn't show it.
[10:35] <ogra> i could add more but then the final announcement is less exciting ;)
[10:35] <soren> My bad.
[10:36] <pitti> hi ogra
[10:36] <ogra> hey pitti
[10:36] <pitti> ogra: any idea how to get some 100 MB off the edubuntu DVDs?
[10:37] <ogra> not yet, was on my list for today to look at it ...
[10:37] <slangasek> ogra: the first point is incorporated, please review my wording changes to make it fit the format
[10:37] <ogra> pitti, why did they grow again ? we were down to 50M iirc
[10:38] <slangasek> ogra: for gobby/moodle, I have a hard time understanding why these are important to include in the announcement, could you please provide a "why" for each of these?  (Feel free to update the wiki directly)
[10:38] <pitti> ogra: I just looked at the rounded file size (4.4 GB)
[10:39] <ogra> edubuntu/dvd: gutsy-dvd-i386.iso oversized by 61544448 bytes (4761917440)
[10:39] <ogra> thats thats yesterdays state
[10:41] <ogra> slangasek, they arent that important :)
[10:41] <slangasek> k then :)
[10:43] <pitti> slangasek, soren: I added a stanza about it; could use some unDenglishification and general improving, though
[10:49] <slangasek> bryce: is a fix for #148231 inbound (post-RC)?
[10:49] <slangasek> (xresprobe)
[10:50] <tepsipakki> slangasek: he's asleep atm
[10:51] <soren> pitti: I keep misplacing the link to that page...
[10:51] <tepsipakki> slangasek: it's not uploaded yet?
[10:51] <ogra> mjg59, http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/devel/gnome-power-manager/gnome-power-manager-2.20.0-expected-return-types.patch?rev=1.1&view=auto
[10:52] <pitti> soren: you mean https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyGibbon/RC ?
[10:52] <soren> pitti: That's the one. Thanks.
[10:52] <slangasek> tepsipakki: it's not in unapproved, so either it's already in and the bug didn't get closed, or it's not uploaded
[10:52] <ogra> mjg59, what do you think ? should we pull that in for final ? it extends your uint patch it seems
[10:53] <tepsipakki> slangasek: right, seems that it isn't uploaded yet
[10:55] <Riddell> doko: looks like icedtea lacks a bzip2 dependency
[10:57] <mvo> superm1: I may have a fix for you
[10:59] <doko> Riddell: lp is so pedantic ... fixed
[11:03] <tepsipakki> slangasek: I can wrap up a new xresprobe and upload it later today (post-RC)
[11:04] <slangasek> Riddell: what is still outstanding on bug #99372, foomatic-db-gutenprint and ijsgutenprint now seem to be on the Kubuntu CDs without going over on size (#149899), does cupsys-driver-gutenprint need to be removed as well?
[11:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 99372 in kubuntu-meta "MASTER: [Feisty]  KDE Printing Manager does not list the PPDs of Gutenprint" [Critical,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/99372
[11:04] <slangasek> tepsipakki: ok, cheers
[11:04] <Riddell> slangasek: that can be closed now
[11:04] <slangasek> Riddell: care to do the honors? :)
[11:06] <Riddell> closed
[11:09] <Riddell> doko: accepted
[11:42] <dholbach> seb128: can you unsubscribe ubuntu-archive from bug 151078? it was a mistake on my end
[11:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151078 in rails "Please sync rails 1.2.4-1 from Debian unstable (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151078
[11:42] <mvo> pitti: what is the policy for moving milestones? I would like to unmilestone bug #140913 as there is no way to get this fixed for gutsy anymore
[11:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 140913 in compiz "session save/restore does not work" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/140913
[11:42] <mvo> pitti: is it fine if I just do that or does it need discussion/approval with the release team?
[11:42] <pitti> mvo: IRC ping works for me (slangasek ^)
[11:43] <pitti> mvo: go ahead and unmilestone it
[11:46] <seb128> dholbach: done
[11:46] <dholbach> seb128: thanks
[11:55] <mantiena-baltix> hi all
[11:55] <mantiena-baltix> mjg59, hi
[12:16] <pitti> Riddell: do you want to keep kdelirc and klaptopdaemon in main (it needs seeding to supported then), or universe (then I'll demote them)?
[12:26] <pitti> ogra: so, can we go over http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/dvd/current/gutsy-dvd-i386.list and check for stuff to throw out?
[12:27] <pitti> ogra: what about linux-image-debug?
[12:28] <Lure> pitti: I am sure klaptopdaemon should be "retired" to universe, not sure about the other one
[12:28] <Riddell> pitti: they should both be demoted
[12:28] <pitti> Riddell: done, thanks
[12:29] <ogra> pitti, why is that back ? i thought all linux -debug packages were gone last time already
[12:29] <pitti> ogra: that should buy us some 80 MB
[12:29] <ogra> thats enough
[12:29] <ogra> hmm, i really thought we had dropped all of them already for beta
[12:30] <pitti>  * /^linux-image-debug-.*(?<!lowlatency)$/
[12:30] <pitti> ok, I'll throw out this
[12:30] <ogra> yeah, then the size should fit
[12:30] <pitti> and try another dvd build
[12:31] <pitti> ogra: running
[12:31] <ogra> thanks :)
[12:34] <Riddell> heno: seen any reports of bug 150930? I just got it on two machines?
[12:34] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 150930 in usplash "Black screen, and bad usplash.conf" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150930
[12:36] <heno> Riddell: I didn't get it here in vbox; I'll ask testers to look out for it
[12:37] <heno> Riddell: could you test with an Ubuntu live CD to see if it's kubuntu-specific?
[12:40] <Riddell> heno: ok
[12:41] <chand> hi
[12:42] <seb128> does something on the desktop CD creates the Desktop directory?
[12:45] <heno> Riddell: never mind ; stgraber confirms it on Ubuntu
[12:45] <Riddell> (phew)
[12:46] <Riddell> what creates that usplash.conf file?
[12:47] <cjwatson> it's a ubiquity bug
[12:47] <mvo> pitti: if you could have a look at the new compiz upload, that would be cool
[12:48] <cjwatson> it needs to copy xserver-xorg/config/display/modes to /target's debconf db before reconfiguring usplash
[12:48] <cjwatson> yet another thing depending on debconf db contents, gah
[12:48] <ogra> seb128,
[12:48] <ogra> if [ -L /root/home/$USERNAME/Examples ] ; then
[12:48] <ogra>     chroot /root install -o $USERNAME -g $USERNAME -d /home/$USERNAME/Desktop/
[12:48] <ogra>     mv /root/home/$USERNAME/Examples /root/home/$USERNAME/Desktop/
[12:48] <ogra> fi
[12:48] <ogra> seb128, usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/casper-bottom/10adduser
[12:49] <pitti> mvo: it's too late for the RC anyway, so I'll just let it sit in the queue, so that (1) slangasek can decide, and (2) if you need another fix, we don't have two rebuilds
[12:49] <pitti> hi Keybuk
[12:49] <seb128> ogra: ok, thanks
[12:49] <cjwatson> I think we should fix it post-RC and release-note that people upgrading from before may need to dpkg-reconfigure usplash
[12:49] <pitti> mvo: unless it's an OMGtheskyisfalling bug?
[12:49] <mvo> pitti: no, its anyoing, but not critical
[12:49] <pitti> mvo: simple and safe, or will it make Steve bite into the table?
[12:50] <mvo> pitti: small at least.
[12:51] <mvo> pitti: pretty safe too, but the compiz code is not so easy that its obvious
[12:52] <cjwatson> oh god, don't tell me the Desktop directory name needs to be translated
[12:52] <ogra> shudder
[12:52] <cjwatson> whoever thought that translating directory names on-disk (as opposed to in the UI) was a good idea owes me a *lot* of drinks
[12:53] <ion_> I translated it to ~/.local/share/desktop
[12:53] <ion_> Less clutter in ~, yay
[12:53] <ogra> bad if you want to access it via commandline
[12:53] <cjwatson> a perfect example of why it should not be translated
[12:53] <Riddell> heno: how do I target a bug at gutsy final?
[12:53] <cjwatson> now suddenly translators are able to break code that doesn't use mkdir -p or equivalent
[12:54] <cjwatson> or impose their own personal views of home directory layout on everyone speaking their language
[12:54] <Riddell> heno: got it, nominate for release
[12:55] <pitti> ogra: ah, daily CD health mail just came in; right, 61 MB for i386, 22 MB for amd64
[12:56] <ogra> cjwatson, and additionally you have to remember if you have put the downloaded word doc with the picture collection inside into Dowloads, Documents or Pictures :)
[12:56] <cjwatson> I bet a language pack update can now make your existing desktop folder disappear by changing the translation
[12:57] <cjwatson> we should revert this madness for gutsy
[12:57] <Mirv> I think xdg-user-dirs and its translations are a great thing overall, and I also like "correct" (localized) folder names in Terminal in gutsy, though I wouldn't object if the translations were only shown in GUI/Nautilus etc.
[12:57] <ogra> ++
[12:57] <Mithrandir> cjwatson: agreed.
[12:57] <cjwatson> Mirv: translating them in the UI is fine, but translating the directory names themselves is utter madness
[12:58] <mvo> Keybuk: I would like to unmilestone #146759 because its a gnome-keyboard-capplet bug and not a compiz bug (duplicate of #12153). is that ok with you? if it is important we can milestone #12153 instead
[01:00] <Keybuk> mvo: is the "It's not possible to disable some shortcuts, notably Move Window and Resize Window; attempting to do so, will just put them back" bit fixed?
[01:00] <Keybuk> that was a ccsm issue
[01:00] <mjg59> ogra: Probably, yes
[01:01] <mjg59> mantiena-baltix: Were you able to test that package?
[01:01] <mvo> Keybuk: I investigate and update the bug description
[01:01] <cjwatson> oh dear goodness there seems to be a crazy scheme to move XDG user dirs around on login
[01:01] <Mirv> cjwatson: I agree making xdg-user-dirs-(gtk-)update foolproof is probably quite hard. Then again it'd be funny that you have "Typyt", "Asiakirjat", "Kuvia" in Nautilus but "Desktop", "Documents" and "Pictures" in terminal. And regarding gutsy, everything seems to work fine, all software that needs the translated Documents or Desktop dirs seem to find it, so apparently the GTK 2.12 xdg changes were gotten into use properly.
[01:01] <pitti> ogra: \o/ new DVD images are there, and not oversized
[01:01] <cjwatson> that's a nightmare
[01:01] <ogra> yay!!!
[01:02] <cjwatson> Mirv: no, all software doesn't
[01:02] <cjwatson> Mirv: I maintain stuff that has apparently been broken by this
[01:03] <cjwatson> or at least may have been, can't quite be sure yet
[01:03] <Mirv> cjwatson: yes that was an exaggeration, having just used OOo et cetera. It's no wonder if some stuff is broken still, though it should work when software has been updated to use the new functions instead of hardcoding.
[01:04] <cjwatson> Mirv: at RC time, the appropriate reaction to an unknown quantity of software being broken by a change is to revert the change
[01:04] <Keybuk> cjwatson: only if you're sure that the change won't break even more software
[01:04] <Keybuk> I thought all GNOME apps were relying on xdg-user-dirs now?
[01:04] <Keybuk> and have been throughout gutsy
[01:04] <cjwatson> Keybuk: there's a switch that turns off the translation ...
[01:05] <Keybuk> what about people who have already got translated directories?
[01:05] <pitti> will that DTRT for upgrades which already have translations?
[01:05] <pitti> (I think it shuold, since you can manually remove them, but we need to check)
[01:05] <cjwatson> god knows, what about when the translations change?
[01:05] <ogra> Keybuk, seb once told me i can just uninstall the xdg-dir stuff to revert to the old beghavior (i didnt try but i'D excpect that to work)
[01:05] <cjwatson> it ought to be the same case
[01:05] <Keybuk> cjwatson: what doesn't work when translations change?
[01:06] <cjwatson> turning off the translations should be equivalent to retranslating everything to "Desktop" et al
[01:06] <cjwatson> and then older Ubuntu code that relies on the name "Desktop" will keep on working
[01:07] <Keybuk> what code do we have that relies on the "Desktop" name?
[01:07] <Mirv> and the translations should not change, once they've been decided. the same translations are used in every distribution.
[01:07] <cjwatson> casper, for one
[01:07] <Keybuk> cjwatson: casper doesn't typically run inside a user's login session?
[01:07] <cjwatson> Mirv: surely they go into Rosetta and are subject to language packs, like everything else
[01:07] <heno> people who already have this and may get issues on a revert have been running Alpha/Beta software and should expect some turbulence
[01:07] <ogra> Keybuk, on all that are started by liveCD users ?
[01:07] <cjwatson> they're just .mo files in /usr/share/locale
[01:08] <Keybuk> ogra: it doesn't matter if things happen before login
[01:08] <Mirv> cjwatson: xdg-user-dirs was now changed so that the translations are part of the source package, not stripped for Rosetta (in order to have all translations available even without language packs)
[01:08] <ogra> Keybuk,
[01:08] <Mirv> part of the binary package, that is
 if [ -L /root/home/$USERNAME/Examples ] ; then
     chroot /root install -o $USERNAME -g $USERNAME -d /home/$USERNAME/Desktop/
     mv /root/home/$USERNAME/Examples /root/home/$USERNAME/Desktop/
 fi
[01:08] <cjwatson> Keybuk: so if casper creates /home/oem/Desktop, xdg-user-dirs-update will move it on login?
[01:10] <cjwatson> Mirv: nevertheless, there are language packs that contain overriding versions of xdg-user-dirs.mo
[01:10] <cjwatson> (I checked)
[01:11] <Keybuk> cjwatson: it seems that if ~/Desktop exists on login, that becomes the default
[01:11] <Keybuk> rather than using a translated name
[01:11] <cjwatson> $ zgrep xdg-user-dirs.mo /mirror/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/Contents-i386.gz | grep locale-langpack | wc -l
[01:11] <cjwatson> 37
[01:11] <cjwatson> Keybuk: does this whole thing not seem horribly flaky and an invitation to bugs to you?
[01:12] <cjwatson> I mean the entire design of having to move subdirectories of $HOME around on login
[01:12] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I can't see anything that suggests it moves directories?
[01:12] <Keybuk> it seems to just ensure that when you first login, you have the right name for your locale
[01:12] <cjwatson> hm, you're right, it doesn't
[01:12] <cjwatson> surely that's even worse
[01:12] <Keybuk> otherwise only handles new "standard" directories
[01:13] <cjwatson> the translations can never be changed, even if they turn out to be wrong
[01:13] <cjwatson> what if you change your language?
[01:13] <Mithrandir> what does it do when I first log in using Norwegian, then switch to English because the Norwegian translation is less than perfect?
[01:13] <Keybuk> it appears that the authors haven't got that far yet
[01:13] <Mithrandir> (which is a perfectly sensible use case)
[01:13] <Keybuk> it does not appear that the sky is falling here though
[01:14] <ogra> well, its something we'll inherit into the next releases
[01:14] <Mithrandir> it'll easily wedge us into a position that's bloody hard to get out of.
[01:14] <cjwatson> I'm concerned that because it has no backward compatibility provisions for the sort of use case Mithrandir outlines, we need to turn it off now or we're stuck
[01:14] <Keybuk> (if we wanted to be useful, we should take comments and concerns upstream and help them make it better)
[01:14] <ogra> given the impact it has on the future that should better work perfect before we default to it
[01:14] <cjwatson> upstream are not going to produce fundamental improvements in eight days
[01:15] <cjwatson> our primary concern is the quality of the Ubuntu release we're preparing now
[01:15] <Keybuk> what impact on the future?
[01:15] <Keybuk> what is the bug that's been discovered here?
[01:15] <Mirv> cjwatson: hmm, I just checked that too, that's true though they haven't really been changed except for three languages. though there is a local copy of the translations in .config/user-dirs.dirs, so xdg-dirs-update should be able to even notice changes in the currently used language's translations (and maybe does).
[01:15] <ogra> Keybuk, transaltions being done on disk
[01:15] <ogra> in the path structure instead of the UI
[01:16] <Mirv> Mithrandir: the xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update asks the user if she wants to switch the folder names back to English or not
[01:16] <ogra> witrhout covering all possible cases
[01:16] <Keybuk> ogra: so we're going to go with a different solution to upstream, and patch every single application to keep the on-disk names the same and just translate in the UI
[01:16] <Keybuk> (which upstream will not do)
[01:16] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: use case: "Tollef logs in using Norwegian, because he is Norwegian and likes his computer to talk to him in Norwegian Bokml.  However, the Norwegian translation is buggy, so Tollef is sad and switches to the Norwegian Nynorsk translation, which is better.  His downloaded images which was on his Desktop are now gone.  Tollef is sad."
[01:16] <Mirv> if not, .config/user-dirs.dirs keeps the translated version, if yes they're changed back to the English ones and folder names are updated. of course, I don't know how foolproof that is but it seemed to work quite fluently and without breaking anything when I switched between English, Spanish and Finnish
[01:16] <ogra> Keybuk, if you never had the xdg-dirs package installed your ~ will look sane ...
[01:17] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: but it doesn't appear to go
[01:17] <Keybuk> did you actually test this?
[01:17] <Keybuk> it looks to me like everything will stay the same
[01:17] <Mithrandir> how will it?  Does it check for all translations of all directories?
[01:17] <cjwatson> so you end up with the old translation that you explicitly asked not to have any nmore?
[01:17] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: it has a config file saying what the directories are called
[01:17] <Keybuk> if an entry is in that config file, it uses it
[01:18] <ogra> pitti, not with quad core CPU in your laptop and 6G RAM :P
[01:18] <pitti> ogra: on such a machine, every OS is fast :)
[01:18] <ogra> heh
[01:18] <pitti> ogra: it's already a core duo, pretty recent
[01:18] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: so it doesn't respect me changing my language, then?
[01:18] <Mirv> Mithrandir: It does not remove any files, it just renames folders when necessary and keeps track on what folder names are in use and suggests folder names from the translations.
[01:18] <seb128> catching up with the discussion
[01:18] <Keybuk> Mirv: where's the rename bit?
[01:18] <Keybuk> there's no rename in xdg-user-dirs-update
[01:18] <seb128> is the issue about "Desktop" or a general discussion about translated directories?
[01:18] <pitti> I saw fast XP bootup/operation on 800 MHz/512 MB RAM machines
[01:18] <ogra> pitti, vista is for the fjutscha :P
[01:19] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: so you don't like the implementation - the right way to fix that is to help upstream improve it
[01:19] <seb128> /etc/xdg/autostart/user-dirs-update-gtk.desktop does open the dialog asking if you want to rename directories when changing locales
[01:19] <ogra> Keybuk, a week before we release ?
[01:19] <cjwatson> Keybuk: correct me if I'm wrong, but we're in #ubuntu-devel talking about the Ubuntu relese
[01:19] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: I think the idea is fundamentally unsound.
[01:19] <Keybuk> ogra: this has been in our distribution for the entire development process!
[01:19] <Keybuk> known bugs are better than unknown bugs
[01:19] <ogra> Keybuk, i know, i complained early
[01:19] <seb128> ogra: now is late for feedback
[01:20] <Keybuk> if we're reverting things we find distasteful, I have quite a length list here :)
[01:20] <ogra> seb128, when i complained you told me i can just remove the package and am fine, that suffices for me personally
[01:20] <Keybuk> cjwatson: yes, and this isn't a new thing - this is something we've had for 6 months; if it were a new update that broke, it would be appropriate to worry about it - but this is something we've had during our alphas, betas and now release candidate images
[01:21] <seb128> ogra: you didn't make constructive comments just ranted because you didn't like it
[01:21] <Keybuk> now is not the time to revert it because it happens to leave a sour taste in your mouth
[01:21] <Keybuk> without actually demonstrating any actual bugs from what I can tell
[01:21] <Keybuk> (since there would be Malone bug numbers going around here :p)
[01:21] <seb128> ogra: we can't stop every time somebody doesn't like a change or we would never do anything
[01:22] <ogra> seb128, i didnt want to stop you (especially since upstream wants to push it) bein able to revert if needed was a sufficient answer in my case ... you might have noticed that i didnt rant after that ;)
[01:22] <seb128> Keybuk: what is the issue exactly pointed there?
[01:22] <seb128> ogra: right, so don't rant now ;)
[01:23] <Mirv> I have used xdg-user-dirs for the whole time of gutsy, and haven't had problems after the translations were also included in the binary package. I haven't noticed bugs, and there are three bugs in a
[01:24] <Mirv> Malone
[01:24] <Keybuk> seb128: for me, the issue is that people are arguing to disable a piece of desktop infrastructure without actually quoting any bugs
[01:24] <Keybuk> which worries me
[01:24] <Keybuk> I've just checked everything in Malone I could think of, and cannot find any complaints about this being handled badly
[01:25] <cjwatson> Keybuk: what is the appropriate way to engage with upstream when you say that they have already dismissed the solution that I would advocate? I don't see a constructive way to do that
[01:25] <Keybuk> cjwatson: demonstrate problems with their chosen solution
[01:25] <seb128> cjwatson: what is your way? translate in the UI rather than on the disk?
[01:25] <cjwatson> seb128: yesw
[01:25] <cjwatson> -w
[01:25] <cjwatson> similarly, we don't translate "/etc"
[01:25] <seb128> cjwatson: they discussed that on the GNOME and xdg list for quite some time and agreed on the current solution, I don't think that will change now
[01:26] <seb128> well, those directories are mainly new
[01:26] <cjwatson> so there is no point in engaging
[01:26] <seb128> only Desktop is a special case and there is code to not translate it if required
[01:26] <ogra> what if translations change ?
[01:27] <ogra> will we have users with "Schreibtisch" and others with "Arbeitsplatz" ? (given a german user)
[01:27] <seb128> ogra: you get the xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update dialog asking if you want to rename it or not
[01:27] <Keybuk> cjwatson: we can't like every decision our upstreams make
[01:27] <ogra> ah
[01:27] <seb128> cjwatson: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2004-December/msg00424.html is the first discussion on the topic
[01:27] <cjwatson> Keybuk: forgive me for attempting to anticipate future problems with a poor design. I'll try not to do that in future.
[01:27] <Mirv> ogra: I haven't tried, but in theory xdg-user-dirs should notice the translation having changed, and probably it does nothing until the language is changed to another and then back. Since the translations aren't used directly, but saved into a .config/ file
[01:28] <Keybuk> cjwatson: are you willing to commit your team to developing a replacement, patching every application and maintaining those patches in the face of upstream doing it a different way
[01:28] <seb128> cjwatson: there is pro and con for each methods with some long discussion
[01:28] <Keybuk> cjwatson: but you're not, you're ranting
[01:28] <ogra> seb128, but if they say no they'll  keep "schreibtisch", right ?
[01:28] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I'm speaking as a developer, not a manager
[01:28] <Keybuk> cjwatson: you're throwing out the entire design, rather than looking at it from the "ok, they're doing it this way, how can we fix the resulting problems?" position
[01:28] <seb128> ogra: yes, you can write whatever you want as names
[01:28] <seb128> ogra: .config/user-dirs.dirs has the list
[01:28] <ogra> seb128, well, but i as developper lose the predictability for the names
[01:28] <seb128> ogra: you can make any change there you want
[01:29] <seb128> ogra: the API will get the names listed there on your configuration
[01:29] <ogra> so i can look them up there ?
[01:29] <cjwatson> Keybuk: you appear to think we should never point out design errors
[01:29] <Keybuk> cjwatson: not at all, I think we should
[01:29] <seb128> ogra: there is no "predictability", you use the glib API
[01:30] <cjwatson> I'll back off from "we should revert this for gutsy" because there appears to be enough glue and sticky tape to avoid major problems
[01:30] <ogra> seb128, well, given the casper code it would be very bad if it wouldnt be called Desktop
[01:30] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I strongly advocate using our experience to help upstream improve it
[01:30] <seb128> ogra: const gchar*        g_get_user_special_dir              (GUserDirectory directory);
[01:30] <Mirv> to put it short, I don't want my grandma to see "Documents" folder, and I don't like the idea that what _I_ see in Nautilus is not what's on the disk, either.
[01:30] <ogra> i dont use glib in scripts
[01:30] <Keybuk> and I think we should be a little bit flexible, and try to help them improve their design -- but also a degree of smug "see, told you you should do it our way" in the background helps too :)
[01:31] <seb128> ogra: there is an easy function to copy in xdg-users-dir which has no GTK, GLIB, GNOME, etc depends for applications which don't use glib
[01:31] <cjwatson> Keybuk: but let's say it *had* broken casper because the sticky tape was arranged slightly differently; I find the position of "we shouldn't fix this in Ubuntu because upstream agreed to do something different" to be objectionable
[01:31] <Keybuk> the only thing I disagree on is using "we don't like the way it works" as a justification for disabling it *one week* before the release, without any actual apparent bugs :-)
[01:31] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I would agree
[01:31] <seb128> ogra: xdg-user-dir-lookup.c
[01:31] <ogra> seb128, yeah, as long as i can find out the name thats fine
[01:31] <Keybuk> I don't disagree that we shouldn't fix it in Ubuntu
[01:31] <cjwatson> Keybuk: bug 122602 appears to be caused by casper's creation of the Desktop directory
[01:31] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 122602 in gnome-panel "Duplicated entries in Places Menu" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/122602
[01:32] <Keybuk> (err, tries to parse his own sentence)
[01:32] <cjwatson> (it's Triaged in xdg-user-dirs-gtk)
[01:32] <Keybuk> I just think we shouldn't rip things out at *this point* unless they're actually causing critical bugs or regressions
[01:32] <Keybuk> the appropriate time would've been before Feature Freeze, or at least before Beta
[01:33] <seb128> cjwatson: right, I've reopened that less than an hour ago while doing testing because I noticed that
[01:33] <cjwatson> I certainly regret not noticing it earlier
[01:33] <cjwatson> seb128: yep, your comment on IRC is what sparked this discussion ;)
[01:33] <seb128> cjwatson: I though that was due to download = desktop
[01:33] <seb128> and it was bookmarking download
[01:33] <ogra> cjwatson, well, you apparently can use XDG_DESKTOP_DIR if you source the users .config/user-dirs.dirs (if that exists already)
[01:33] <seb128> which was actually an issue (which has been fixed)
[01:33] <cjwatson> seb128: I think it's likely to be that casper creates ~/Desktop so that it can put the ubiquity icon there
[01:33] <cjwatson> ogra: it won't exist at that point
[01:34] <Mithrandir> and create the symlink, yes
[01:34] <seb128> right, what I figured this morning
[01:34] <ogra> yeah
[01:34] <Mithrandir> (the example-content symlink)
[01:34] <cjwatson> yes, that too
[01:34] <pitti> evand, heno: ^ known already?
[01:35] <cjwatson> Keybuk: I apologise for being immoderate; since I was working from the starting point of seb128's comment, I was going from my reading of the source code
[01:35] <pitti> it's in autoresize mode, so there is anohter installation; however, m-a did not show me any suitable OSes to import from
[01:35] <cjwatson> pitti: I see the bug
[01:35] <Keybuk> cjwatson: I'm the last person you need to apologise too ;)  I'm frequently immoderate, myself <g>
[01:36] <cjwatson> pitti: please file it though
[01:36] <seb128> cjwatson: an easy way to workaround it is to comment the DESKTOP xdg dir, in which case it'll fallback automatically at using ~/Desktop
[01:37] <cjwatson> seb128: do you think we should do that in casper?
[01:37] <cjwatson> seb128: and, for that matter, oem-config
[01:37] <cjwatson> and ubiquity
[01:37] <pitti> cjwatson: will do
[01:38] <seb128> cjwatson: hum, thinking about it
[01:38] <cjwatson> seb128: changing it in oem-config (and ubiquity in OEM mode) would persist to installed systems
[01:38] <cjwatson> so this doesn't seem straightforward
[01:39] <seb128> cjwatson: I think that should be fixed in xdg-user-dirs rather
[01:39] <seb128> in the case where Desktop already exist it should use that
[01:40] <seb128> so that would work on the CD using ~/Desktop
[01:40] <seb128> and the installation system will get the translated directory since nothing create a ~/Desktop there
[01:40] <cjwatson> that sounds right
[01:41] <Keybuk> seb128: there's code in there for "backwards_compat_dirs"
[01:41] <seb128> I'm working on that
[01:42] <seb128> Keybuk: yeah, I though it was not supposed to create a translated version if "Desktop" exists in fact
[01:42] <pitti> cjwatson: bug 151243
[01:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151243 in ubiquity "DebconfError: (10, "migration-assistant/new-user/martin/ doesn't exist")" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151243
[01:42] <seb128> Keybuk: there is likely a bug somewhere, I'm looking into it
[01:43] <cjwatson> pitti: introduced by the fix for bug 135149
[01:43] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135149 in ubiquity "[gutsy]  failed to unmount migrationassistant" [Medium,Fix released]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135149
[01:44] <seb128> Keybuk: hum, the issues are introduced by the fact that we use Download=Desktop
[01:44] <seb128> Keybuk: the DESKTOP config is correctly set to Desktop on the CD
[01:44] <seb128> but Download is set to Bureau (french version of Desktop) there
[01:46] <Keybuk> seb128: yeah, I just touch touch ~/Desktop/foo and it appeared in nautilus
[01:46] <seb128> Keybuk: my xdg-user-dirs-gtk patch is not correct
[01:47] <seb128> 01_no_desktop_bookmark.patch
[01:47] <seb128> it works only when Desktop is translated
[01:48] <heno> pitti: I've not seen that; will test for it now
[01:48] <elmo> seb128: are there any known regressions in evince?
[01:49] <Keybuk> elmo: I've had a couple of broken PDFs fail to load that older evince loaded ok
[01:49] <Keybuk> (because older evince ignored the forms bit in thim)
[01:49] <pitti> heno: nevermind, see cjwatson's comment above; I filed it as a bug
[01:50] <elmo> Keybuk: these aren't broken AFAICT, and work fine with feisty
[01:50] <heno> ok
[01:50] <cjwatson> pitti: I think this needs evand
[01:50] <seb128> elmo: not really, there is a new bug about printing quality but that's not really confirmed yet
[01:51] <elmo> seb128: ok, thanks, I'll file a bug about it now, I get cairo memory errors when running it from the command line.  would evince or poppler be a better package to bug?
[01:52] <seb128> elmo: is the document rendered empty but display it contents if you highlight it?
[01:52] <bluekuja> mjg59: do you have a minute for uswsusp problem?
[01:53] <seb128> elmo: s/highlight/select
[01:53] <elmo> seb128: aha, yes!
[01:53] <seb128> elmo: that's a known one
[01:53] <heno> pitti: is your bug the same as bug 151165 ?
[01:53] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151165 in ubiquity "ubiquity hangs indefinitely at Step 6" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151165
[01:54] <elmo> seb128: ok, do you have a bug number?  'cos it's a regression from feisty, I'm getting a lot of whining about it in the office
[01:54] <Keybuk> elmo: turn the aircon down a notch, that keeps them quiet ;)
[01:55] <seb128> elmo: some people already had the issue on feisty
[01:55] <seb128> elmo: bug #116236
[01:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 116236 in libcairo "evince shows a mostly blank pdf" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/116236
[01:55] <cjwatson> heno: yes, same bug, please dup it
[01:55] <heno> ok
[01:58] <pitti> heno: right, that's it
[01:58] <pitti> I searched for that string before, hmm
[01:58] <pitti> doesn't LP search in bug descriptions any more?
[01:59] <heno> I can reproduce it in vbox as well now
[01:59] <elmo> seb128: interesting, this PDF definitely works on feisty.  ok, well then I guess I can't really play the regression card ;-)
[02:00] <mantiena-baltix> mjg59, hi again, I tested your patched gdm and didn't noticed any problems with xorg.conf from http://ftp.akl.lt/incoming/Baltix-stuff/
[02:01] <seb128> elmo: if you have a public example please attach it to the bug so we can test on different cases if there is a fix
[02:02] <pitti> heno: I dup it the other way round, since cjwatson already milestoned and commented it
[02:02] <mantiena-baltix> mjg59, Thank you for making Ubuntu better
[02:02] <heno> pitti: ok, good
[02:02] <mantiena-baltix> I also builded patched gdm packages - see http://ppa.launchpad.net/mantas/ubuntu/pool/main/g/gdm/ (they can run even on feisty :))
[02:02] <elmo> seb128: done
[02:03] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[02:04] <mjg59> mantiena-baltix: So it worked?
[02:11] <pitti> mvo: is "ensure that cd release-upgrader is set to ""useDevelopmentRelease=False" done now?
[02:12] <mvo> pitti: yes
[02:12] <pitti> thanks
[02:14] <popey> mjg59: another bug filing question if you have a few minutes?
[02:14] <popey> (or anyone else)
[02:15] <mjg59> popey: Sure
[02:15] <popey> c2d 6700 system. /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq doesn't exist
[02:16] <popey> 3.6.20 - feisty
[02:16] <popey> er, 2.6.20 of course
[02:16] <popey> so cpu runs flat out all the time
[02:18] <popey> wondered if I should file a bug or wait for gutsy / 2.6.22
[02:18] <mjg59> Well, unlikely that it'll be fixed in feisty
[02:19] <mjg59> But make sure you have powernowd installed
[02:19] <popey> yeah, i do
[02:20] <popey> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/467
[02:21] <Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
[02:25] <stgraber> pitti: argh, I'm looking for 10 minutes after a tracker bug which in fact isn't !!! (I wondered why the dups were switched for the m-a bug)
[02:28] <soren> Aw, crap I closed the tab with the milestoned bugs on it.. What's the magic to get it back? Ubuntu's bug page->search for milestoned bugs  doesn't give me an option to order by assignee.
[02:29] <persia> soren: "Recently Closed tabs" in History?
[02:30] <soren> persia: a) I use epiphany and b) I might not have closed it recently. I only just noticed its absence just now.
[02:30] <soren> Oh, he buggered off.
[02:30] <cjwatson> soren: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-7.10-rc
[02:30] <cjwatson> -edge.
[02:30] <soren> No, edge is good :)
[02:30] <soren> cjwatson: Excellent. Thanks.
[02:39] <_MMA_> cjwatson: Do you have time to manually trigger a Ubuntu Studio build so I can test if those updates from yesterday took?
[02:47] <cjwatson> _MMA_: I've triggered it, but we've stopped mirroring of CD images temporarily during release candidate prep, so you won't actually be able to get at it for a while, I'm afraid
[02:48] <_MMA_> Ahh.... Ok. :(
[02:48] <_MMA_> Thanx anyway.
[02:57] <soren> What handles the automagic printer setup?
[02:57] <soren> I would have thought it was gnome-volume-manager, but it doesn't seem to be so in my fresh gutsy install.
[03:00] <soren> Ah, never min.d
[03:01] <evand> pitti: have you discovered a grave bug?  I'm slightly confused.
[03:02] <evand> oh wow, I see it now
[03:02] <evand> this just isn't my week/release
[03:02] <evand> fixing now
[03:03] <cjwatson> evand: see my comments on the bug
[03:04] <evand> indeed
[03:18] <mantiena-baltix> mjg59, so, when are you planing to include virtual-screen patch into official Ubuntu packages?
[03:18] <pitti> hi evand
[03:18] <evand> hi pitti
[03:21] <Keybuk> I can't decide whether TAL is evil or nice
[03:22] <Hobbsee> it's evil, pretending to be nice.
[03:24] <Keybuk> it does save me having to embed vast amounts of Python into this program
[03:24] <Keybuk> err
[03:24] <Keybuk> I mean vasts about of HTML into this Python program
[03:24] <Keybuk> nothing can save me from having to embed vasts amount of Python
[03:24] <Keybuk> I was doomed to that special hell long ago
[03:33] <soren> While checking up on bug 137581, I've found out that cups by default sets new printers to shared unless told otherwise at ./configure time. Should we change the default in cups or should I work around it in hal-cups-utils. Both are simple fixes (in terms of lines of code changed), but I'm not confident that everything will work properly afterwards. What to do?
[03:33] <soren> ubotu ftl..
[03:33] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about ftl.. - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[03:33] <soren> bug 137581
[03:33] <Mithrandir> heh
[03:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 137581 in cupsys "[Gusty]  Printer shared by default (Security)" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/137581
[03:35] <pitti> soren: eww, thanks for finding that; weird, the default switch is 'sharing disabled' in the global configuration
[03:35] <pitti> soren: let me check
[03:38] <soren> pitti: My cupsd.conf doesn't even mention sharing?
[03:38] <pitti> seb128: there are two gdms in the unapproved queue; which is the 'good' one? (one from 6:30 hours ago, one from 1:10 hours)
[03:38] <pitti> soren: I believe this might be a red herring, but let me check
[03:38] <soren> pitti: But you're right. There's a third option: Add <DefaultPrinter> Shared No </DefaultPrinter> to cupsd.conf (or something to that effect)
[03:38] <pitti> soren: usually it only listens on localhost by default
[03:39] <pitti> soren: and only if you enable sharing in the server options, individual printers can be shared in the first place
[03:39] <pitti> tcp        0      0 127.0.0.1:631           0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN     11087/cupsd
[03:39] <pitti> ^ my default
[03:40] <pitti> OMG, who did the German translation for hal-cups-utils... "Drucker addiert" -- hilarious
[03:40] <pitti> "ML-1610 ist druckbereites."
[03:41] <lamont> it's moments like these where I regret stopping my german studies
[03:41] <MacSlow> "Drucker addiert" is gold!
[03:42] <gilligan_> should be "Drucker hinzugefgt"
[03:42] <soren> Ok, so since this is not a problem unless people explicitly open cups to external connections, it should be safe to leave it as is for this release.
[03:42] <soren> "addiert" is not really a proper German word is it? That's the joke, right?
[03:42] <gilligan_> it is a proper word
[03:42] <gilligan_> just not for this context AT ALL
[03:43] <gilligan_> addieren is more or less only for "adding" in a mathematical sense
[03:43] <MacSlow> soren, in german the verb 'addieren' means add in the mathematical sense not like 'added something to something else' (e.g. a printer to a computer)
[03:43] <soren> Right.
[03:43] <soren>  Same in Danish.
[03:44] <pitti> soren: see the bug, I added a comment
[03:44] <pitti> soren: also, "druckbereites" is not a word at all
[03:44] <soren> pitti: Wicked. Thanks for the help.
[03:44] <pitti> soren: it's like the genitive of an adverb (if such a thing would exist)
[03:44] <MacSlow> but then... 'Drucker addiert' is probably not totally wrong... printers these days are likely able to perform some kind of calulcations :)
[03:45] <pitti> but the printer doesn't add, it got configured
[03:45] <pitti> :)
[03:45] <soren> pitti: Translations can be... Um.. fun.
[03:45] <pitti> soren: I just wonder why Rosetta's restrictions might be too lax
[03:47] <pitti> carlos: meh, https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/system-config-printer/+pots/system-config-printer/de/+translate times out for me
[03:47] <soren> pitti: It's a bit of a bummer that I'm sitting here with my brand new and shiny core-dev hat, and I can't even be allowed to change a typo in a translation.
[03:48] <pitti> soren: well, translation teams should be independent from upload privs IMHO
[03:49] <soren> Sure. I understand why it's like that. It's just yet another thing I need to get sponsored or reviewed or whatever.
[03:50] <pitti> hm, the upstream translations are correct
[03:50] <pitti> carlos: do you know why https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/system-config-printer shows no Rosetta specific translations for system-config-printer, the upstream translations are correct, but the ones in the langpacks aren't?
[03:51] <pitti> carlos: ah, it might be because the langpacks are so horribly outdated
[03:55] <bddebian> Heya
[03:55] <pitti> lool, mjg59: so, you two uploaded two conflicting versions of gdm (2.20.0-0ubuntu4)
[03:55] <pitti> to unapproved
[03:56] <pitti> mjg59: I'll reject your's, since lool came first, and your patch looks very intrusive for this point of the release
[03:57] <bddebian> doko: You really consider that platform.dist() returns Debian lenny/sid to be a wishlist bug?
[03:59] <doko> bddebian: it's a duplicate anyway
[04:00] <bddebian> doko: OK, well that I didn't know and I didn't know it was a dupe.  I was just surprised that python parses /etc/<dist>_version
[04:04] <lool> pitti: Sorry about that, I prepared my upload yesterday; is there a way to prevent such collisions in the future or was that just FMI?
[04:05] <dholbach> pitti: are you aware of bug 125308? ok, if I subscribe you to it?
[04:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 125308 in esound "[gutsy]  esd makes diverse gnome apps freeze" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/125308
[04:06] <pitti> lool: during freezes, people should ask the RMs before upload, or at least look into the unapproved queue first; if there is an upload already, then again coordinate with RM
[04:06] <pitti> mjg59: ^
[04:06] <pitti> dholbach: we don't install esd by default any more, for exactly those reasons
[04:06] <pitti> dholbach: and the last uploader of esound made a mess of the package (killed all our precious patches, etc.)
[04:07] <dholbach> hrm, who is interested in it still being in main?
[04:07] <pitti> dholbach: once we install pulse by default (or at least the esd compat client libs), I'll be happy to see it six feet under
[04:07] <pitti> but that's hardy material
[04:07] <dholbach> the patch is hardy material too?
[04:07] <pitti> dholbach: definitively on my list, though
[04:07] <dholbach> (patch on the bug)
[04:07] <pitti> dholbach: oh, patch?
[04:07] <bddebian> Oh lool!  I didn't use console-colors package as the source but I did borrow a lot of their changes for colorgcc.  I got a new version uploaded yesterday if you are interested in testing it out for me.
[04:08] <bddebian> To Debian that is
[04:08] <lool> bddebian: I guess I'll naturally test it when I apt-get update :)
[04:08] <bddebian> Heh, fair enough, thx
[04:09] <carlos> pitti: hi, I'm back
[04:09] <pitti> dholbach: ah, that looks good
[04:09] <pitti> hi carlos
[04:09] <dholbach> pitti: thank YOU
[04:09] <lool> To be honest, I didn't spend huge time playing with colorgcc, I wanted it to "just work" and do the right thing, when I was at that point I stopped looking into it
[04:09] <bddebian> OK
[04:10] <lool> bddebian: I'm not sure I filed a bug about it, but I have a local hack here to generate symlinks like ccache does
[04:10] <lool> In order to only have to add $colorgcc-symlinks-dir to the PATH to use it as cc
[04:11] <bddebian> lool: Yes it's on BTS thanks.  I'm just not sure I know what to do with it.  I'm kinda stupid. :-)
[04:11] <carlos> pitti: what's the problem with system-config-printer?
[04:11] <carlos> pitti: translations were working for me, it had some bugs though, so no all translations were used
[04:11] <pitti> carlos: I wondered where the odd translations came form
[04:12] <pitti> carlos: and I can't check, because the page times out
[04:12] <lool> bddebian: Perhaps check how ccache did it and look for a similar solution?
[04:13] <bddebian> I looked briefly at ccache
[04:13] <nicolai__> pitti: what will you do with the "cryptsetup> could not setup lvm" error message? keep it as it is?
[04:14] <pitti> nicolai__: that's my plan anyway; it's too late to fix it properly
[04:14] <carlos> pitti: but what's the problem you are having?
[04:14] <nicolai__> pitti: and dirty? ;)
[04:14] <pitti> carlos: there are some very wrong German translations of s-c-p (see above), which I'd like to check and correct
[04:14] <pitti> carlos: upstream's original ones  are correct
[04:15] <carlos> pitti: the timeout problem is known problem, we are improving the performance, but still need to speed some things
[04:15] <pitti> carlos: so I'd like to check where they come from; but with the page timing out, I can't
[04:15] <carlos> pitti: oh, I see, so maybe someone 'forked' translations in Launchpad..
[04:15] <mjg59> pitti: I suspect we either need to include mine or heavily refactor guidance-backends
[04:15] <pitti> carlos: but there's just a green and a red bar, no blue one
[04:16] <pitti> mjg59: can you merge your patch into lool's package?
[04:16] <mjg59> pitti: Sure
[04:16] <carlos> pitti: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/system-config-printer/+imports
[04:16] <carlos> pitti: there are some pending files to be imported
[04:16] <pitti> mjg59: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/unapproved/gdm_2.20.0-0ubuntu4.dsc
[04:16] <mjg59> Thanks
[04:17] <carlos> pitti: so maybe that's the problem, those should be imported soon (I think any time between today or tomorrow)
[04:17] <pitti> mjg59: it just didn't look like the OMGTSIF type of patch we'd need at this point of the release
[04:17] <pitti> carlos: too late for the currently running export, right? well, not that important
[04:17] <mjg59> pitti: It basically screws anyone who runs the X configuration tool on a CRT
[04:17] <pitti> uh, that does sound serious
[04:18] <mjg59> Unless they want to run at the very maximum resolution that the CRT supports
[04:18] <carlos> pitti: yeah, it will need to wait for the language pack update
[04:18] <mjg59> (which they probably don't)
[04:18] <pitti> mjg59: so, please reuse ubuntu4, and I'll reject lool's upload, too, then
[04:19] <pitti> well, ubuntu5 is fine, too, as you wish
[04:19] <mjg59> pitti: Oh, just merge mine into lool's? No problem.
[04:25] <davmor2> bryce: ping
[04:27] <mjg59> pitti: I've uploaded a new ubuntu4 with both sets of changes
[04:28] <pitti> mjg59: thanks, I'll reject the older one then
[04:34] <seb128> pitti: who did upload gdm one hour ago?
[04:35] <seb128> ah, you sorted that apparently
[05:06] <JayTheMentalMidg> Would anyone know why that nvram commit wouldn't save settings that will make it through a reboot?
[05:08] <pitti> evand: how are things looking? we need to get new desktop CDs out soon if we want to rebuild them at all
[05:09] <evand> pitti: changes are in ubiquity trunk, but cjwatson is requesting we wait.
[05:12] <cjwatson> pitti: I'm trying to get a bit further with this language pack thing
[05:12] <cjwatson> I am making concrete progress
[05:13] <pitti> which bug is that?
[05:14] <cjwatson> pitti: bug 145012 and a very similar issue reported by seb128
[05:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 145012 in ubiquity "installer hangs retrieving langpacks when network is down" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/145012
[05:14] <pitti> ah, that one
[05:17] <ogra> seb128, did the icon names for desktop and home change accordingly with the start-here vs. distributor-logo ? (asking because of bug 151294)
[05:17] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151294 in edubuntu-artwork "Edubuntu icons are not uniform" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151294
[05:20] <seb128> ogra: no idea
[05:20] <seb128> ogra: I'll have a look, a min
[05:21] <ogra> i can look myself, is the code gnome-session or -panel ?
[05:23] <seb128> ogra: gnome-panel
[05:24] <ogra> ta
[05:26] <bdmurray> mvo: Where does do-release-upgrade maintain state?  If you say "No" one time it seems to remember.
[05:54] <seb128> iwj: I don't really understand bug #151325
[05:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151325 in gnome-terminal "scrollback gesture should be disabled" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151325
[05:54] <seb128> iwj: do you click or something?
[05:55] <iwj> seb128: No.
[05:55] <iwj> seb128: It's a trackpad so it might be that it treats my finger-down as tap.
[05:55] <seb128> iwj: are you sure you didn't activate the scrollweel or something?
[05:55] <iwj> seb128: I didn't do anything.  It's a very vanilla install.  The only thing I changed was to turn off compiz.
[05:56] <iwj> I can't get it to do it if I place my finger gently, wait, and then move suddenly left.
[05:56] <seb128> iwj: I don't get how a pointer move could create an action, there is no gesture configured under GNOME
[05:56] <iwj> So it maybe that it things I'm doing click-and-drag.
[05:56] <iwj> s/things/thinks/
[05:56] <seb128> click and drag should display a selection
[05:57] <iwj> You would think so, yes.
[05:57] <seb128> iwj: what would explain that is scrolling with the middle button of a mouse
[05:57] <seb128> which acts as page up
[05:57] <Nafallo> BUHU!
[05:57] <iwj> There is no middle button.  It's a two-button trackpad but I'm only using my finger on the actual trackpad.
[05:57] <seb128> can you do that with your trackpad?
[05:57] <Nafallo> I can't enable desktop effects :-/
[05:58] <seb128> iwj: k, doesn't really seem important for gutsy and I don't manager to trigger that using a regular mouse so I'll pass on it for now
[05:58] <iwj> seb128: Sure.  It's been doing it like this for ages.  I thought we had a bug about it already but when I looked I couldn't find it.
[05:59] <Nafallo> ehrm...
[06:01] <mvo> bdmurray: it does? that is cool. I think that this was a feature request, but I can't remember ever implementing it. if there is a [Yn]  it should use the cpatial one as default
[06:04] <cjwatson> pitti: nearly there ...
[06:07] <pitti> cjwatson: damn, I didn't disable the publisher, so you have at least another 30 minutes :/
[07:27] <fabbione> slomo: ping?
[07:30] <davmor2> bryce: new bug create (as per your request)  for the kubuntu intel error.  Plus Lore gave me a load of tips on things that might be useful bug 151311.  I got to go to the lug meeting in a bit and will be test other desktops after so is there any more info that you need before I go?
[07:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151311 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "DPI in kubuntu incorrect on xorg-video-driver-intel" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151311
[07:33] <bryce> davmor2: thanks, the one other piece of info that may be helpful is the output of lspci -vvnn
[07:33] <davmor2> np
[07:34] <bryce> oh, and since this sounds like it could be a resolution related issue, output from `xrandr` and `ddcprobe` should also be attached in case it's relevant
[07:34] <davmor2> bryce: how do I get that?
[07:34] <bryce> just run those commands
[07:34] <bryce> you may need to install xresprobe to get ddcprobe
[07:42] <davmor2> bryce: right updated for you.  also although res and stuff is right when you force the issue.  The login screen font is still an inch high.
[07:45] <davmor2> bryce: that applies to the ubuntu fix aswell I think :(
[07:58] <Oliver3> I upgraded to Gusty beta last night. Ever since doing so I've had a crackly sound coming from my speakers when playing audio. Also, the screen resolution become screwy, it's fine in GNOME after changing it, but it's still messed up at the login screen.
[07:59] <Oliver3> I'm unable to see the edges of the screen, and I've already tried changing the settings on the monitor to their minimum.
[07:59] <Oliver3> Oh
[08:23] <ogra> seb128, which g-p-m patch is that ?
[08:23] <ogra> seb128, i'm working on http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/devel/gnome-power-manager/gnome-power-manager-2.20.0-expected-return-types.patch?rev=1.1&view=auto atm
[08:27] <ogra> seb128, is that the same ? and if so, did you take the whole patch ? it closes a ton of other gpm (mostly brightness and notification) bugs as well
[08:37] <blueyed> Bug 151319 is about a package where the (python) binaries are missing in the package. It builds fine in pbuilder, Debian, but not in a PPA and Ubuntu in general.
[08:37] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151319 in bitbake "The package not contain binaries thus it isn't useful at all" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151319
[08:37] <blueyed> Does the package need to be adjusted?
[08:39] <geser> blueyed: does the PPA build log give a hint why the binaries don't get included?
[08:43] <blueyed> geser: I'm not sure.. see http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9928858/buildlog_ubuntu-gutsy-i386.bitbake_1.8.2-1~ppa1_FULLYBUILT.txt.gz
[08:44] <blueyed> Maybe I should compare this to the pbuilder log..
[08:48] <seb128> ogra: no, I took http://svn.gnome.org/viewvc/gnome-power-manager/trunk/src/gpm-manager.c?r1=2523&r2=2522&pathrev=2523
[08:49] <ogra> seb128, ok, then we dont clash :) thanks
[08:50] <seb128> ogra: we do on revision number
[08:51] <seb128> ogra: dget http://people.ubuntu.com/~ubuntu-archive/queue/gutsy/unapproved/gnome-power-manager_2.20.0-0ubuntu4.dsc
[08:51] <ogra> i didnt upload anything yet, i was collecting info from bugged users to justify if its worth it i wasnt planning to upload before RC
[08:51] <seb128> ogra: if you want to add a new revision
[08:51] <seb128> ogra: ok
[08:52] <ogra> but it seems fixing the uint/int mistmatch will solve really a lot of the remaining bugs
[08:52] <ogra> i really woder how that could slip into the final upstream release
[08:53] <seb128> ogra: the same reason why you didn't notice it before now, people being busy, too many bug reports, etc
[08:53] <ogra> seb128, well, mjg59 noticed it ad fixed one piece ...
[08:54] <ogra> i noticed there were more related errors, but youre right i was to busy to look into it ...
[09:00] <mvo> slangasek: could you please reject my  translation_main and translations_restricted uploads ?
[09:01] <mvo> slangasek: (type raw-ddtp-tarball)
[09:05] <mvo> or Riddell maybe? reject my translation_main and translation_restricted upload?
[09:06] <geser> blueyed: looking at the build-log it looks like a docbook-xml build-dependency should be added (for building the documentation)
[09:06] <cjwatson> mvo: done
[09:06] <mvo> thanks cjwatson
[09:07] <slangasek> cjwatson: did those go through unapproved? 'q -Q unapproved info' didn't seem to show them for me
[09:07] <slangasek> or I should've rerun the command instead of looking at the one in my scrollback from a few minutes ago...
[09:11] <blueyed> geser: I'll test it and let you know.
[09:11] <zul> hey LaserJock
[09:11] <mvo> cjwatson, slangasek: I assume that ddtp translation updates are ok at this stage?
[09:11] <LaserJock> hi zul
[09:12] <geser> blueyed: but I guess that's only a minor error and shouldn't affect the missing binaries
[09:12] <LaserJock> something messed up my  Gnome again :/
[09:12] <zul> use kde
[09:12] <LaserJock> but this time I only have to narrow it down from a few hundred updates ;-)
[09:12] <LaserJock> zul: that's what I did last time
[09:13] <LaserJock> at some point it's nice to actually be able to logout
[09:13] <LaserJock> must be some secret Gnome plan
[09:13] <slangasek> mvo: uh... /sounds/ ok to me, but I guess I don't know for sure
[09:16] <mvo> slangasek: I uploaded the multiverse translations now (fixed ones) and if cjwatson is ok, we could let this thorugh. if all is fine iwth those I will upload the rest. deal :) ?
[09:19] <slangasek> mvo: well, I presume that if cjwatson says it's ok, that means it's really ok
[09:19] <slangasek> I can't think of anything that would break, I'm just being overly cautious
[09:21] <mvo> slangasek: caution is fine at this stage
[09:30] <pochu> slangasek: do you think we can get the fix in bug 151217 in? It fixes a crash when adding a local feed, and the fix looks pretty harmless to me.
[09:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151217 in liferea "[gutsy]  liferea-bin crashed with SIGSEGV while trying to a new feed" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151217
[09:42] <slangasek> pochu: not before RC, but we can take a look at it for final (i.e., please go ahead and upload)
[09:44] <BenC> is there a command line for mute/unmute?
[09:44] <Kmos> I need an opinion about bug 151024 , i think it's kernel related..
[09:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151024 in ubuntu "can not install gutsy livecd beta with nvidia graphic card" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151024
[09:45] <BenC> Kmos: nope, xorg-video-nv problem most likely
[09:45] <Kmos> BenC: amixer set Master mute
[09:45] <BenC> Kmos: thanks :)
[09:45] <Kmos> BenC: thx
[09:46] <BenC> Kmos: invalid command
[09:46] <pochu> slangasek: thanks. slomo, mind uploading it? :-) http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/
[09:47] <Kmos> BenC: it works here
[09:47] <Kmos> BenC: do you have amixer?
[09:48] <BenC> Kmos: ...
[09:48] <BenC> $ amixer set Master mute
[09:48] <BenC> amixer: Invalid command!
[09:48] <BenC> amixer is there, just doesn't like my command
[09:48] <Kmos> it works here and works
[09:48] <Kmos> BenC: http://pastebin.com/d154369e
[09:49] <BenC> Kmos: maybe "Master" isn't here
[09:49] <BenC> Kmos: how do I get a list of mixer controls?
[09:49] <BenC> hmm, nope, amixer shows a Master
[09:50] <Kmos> yeah
[09:50] <Kmos> if you type: amixer is shows it
[09:50] <Kmos> amixer |grep Master
[09:50] <BenC> yeah, I got that
[09:51] <Kmos> BenC: amixer controls
[09:52] <Kmos> BenC: amixer scontrols
[09:52] <Kmos> scontrols it's better
[09:52] <Kmos> you don't have two sound cards?
[09:53] <BenC> no
[09:53] <BenC> Front works for me
[09:53] <BenC> it's a laptop
[09:54] <Kmos> hmm
[09:54] <Kmos> i'm on a desktop
[09:54] <mjg59> The mixers are screwed up on most recent machines
[09:54] <mjg59> (that's if sound works at all)
[09:54] <mjg59> If you don't have the correct mapping tables, it'll end up with odd bits of functionality being on strange mixer channels
[09:58] <Kmos> rt2500 is included in kernel on gutsy ?
[10:01] <cjwatson> slangasek: they did go through unapproved, just only briefly because I happened to notice mvo's request quickly
[10:01] <slangasek> right :)
[10:01] <cjwatson> mvo,slangasek: DDTP updates are fine to the best of my knowledge
[10:04] <slangasek> ok, will have a look right after lunch
[10:07] <pochu> mjg59: new liferea 1.4.5 workarounds the data loss on forced termination. Not sure we should include it, as we may be too close to release for this change... http://liferea.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/liferea?view=rev&revision=3481
[10:07] <mjg59> pochu: I'd go for it - the current situation is greatly irritating
[10:08] <mjg59> But you'll probably want to get it past one of the release team
[10:09] <pochu> mjg59: of course.
[10:09] <mjg59> pochu: But feel free to let them know I'm enthusiastic :)
[10:10] <pochu> slangasek: do you think it's reasonably if I test it and find no regressions? (it's for not trying it in case you won't accept it hehe).
[10:16] <mdke> cjwatson: cool, thanks for looking into it
[10:19] <mjg59> slangasek: Can you take a quick look at #68370 ? There's a synaptics upload queued that fixes it, but it'd be nice to know if you view it as a target for gutsy (I can reproduce the issue here without any trouble)
[10:21] <mdke> Seveas: here?
[10:28] <gnomefreak> mdke: he might be afk for a bit
[10:29] <mdke> okie dokey
[10:53] <pitti> mvo: I assume we want those translation tarballs?
[10:53] <mvo> pitti: yes, just to avoid badness we may import one for now and see if all is fine then and then take the rest?
[10:54] <pitti> mvo: you make that sound as if it wasn't the trivial and safe update it should be?
[10:55] <mvo> pitti: its just data, so there can be no serious harm. I'm just very cautios now
[10:55] <pitti> mvo: so should I accept universe and multiverse now, and you'll check the results after publisher?
[10:56] <pitti> mvo: and if all is well, I do main/restricted?
[10:56] <mvo> pitti: yes, that sounds good
[10:56] <pitti> done
[10:56] <mvo> thanks
[10:58] <nicolai__> n8
[11:05] <blueyed> geser: adding the docbook-xml build-depends for the bitbake package fixed it!
[11:05] <blueyed> I don't understand why it works with pbuilder without it (and in Debian), but it fixes it for the ubuntu build system.
[11:07] <LaserJock> blueyed: could there be a component problem?
[11:07] <LaserJock> I had a perhaps a similar situation
[11:08] <slangasek> pochu: hum, I still need to look at the fix before accepting it; you should also test it, but I don't know what answer I can give you here
[11:08] <blueyed> LaserJock: Are you refering to main/universe et al? I've tried it in ppa before without changing anything, but using "main".
[11:08] <LaserJock> hmm, but that was for a Main package
[11:08] <LaserJock> yes
[11:08] <LaserJock> my problem was that a dep had changed and so it was trying to pull in something that was in Universe for a package that's in Main
[11:09] <LaserJock> so in my pbuilder (where I have Universe enabled) it'd work
[11:09] <LaserJock> and in Debian
[11:09] <LaserJock> but in the buildds it didn't because Main doesn't know about Universe
[11:09] <slangasek> mjg59: #68370: if the fix is straightforward enough I'll accept it, time allowing
[11:10] <blueyed> docbook-xml is in main, and only explicitly adding it fixed it. So I don't think that's the case here.
[11:10] <pochu> slangasek: sure, I'll backport the fix and use it until RC. Then I'll let you know if I think it doesn't have regressions.
[11:11] <LaserJock> blueyed: yeah, that is odd, you should check the pbuilder output where it'd doing the dep resolution
[11:17] <mjg59> slangasek: Diff is the addition of:
[11:17] <mjg59>     if (xf86Screens[0] ->vtSema == FALSE)
[11:17] <mjg59>             return !Success;
[11:17] <slangasek> mjg59: sounds good
[11:17] <mjg59> slangasek: Ok. It's sitting in unaccepted at the moment.
[11:17] <slangasek> pochu: sorry, you /will/ backport?  Is this not the same change you were just asking for an uploader on?
[11:18] <slangasek> mjg59: if the bug's not milestoned yet, please add it so my memory doesn't lose between now and when we start accepting post-RC packages
[11:19] <mjg59> Ok
[11:20] <pochu> slangasek: s/backport/patch/ . They are different bugs (the one you approved me to upload and this one), but I'd like to see both in the main archive, (providing it's feasible).
[11:20] <mjg59> slangasek: Milestone it to rc? We don't seem to have a final target yet.
[11:20] <cjwatson> we probably should have
[11:21] <cjwatson> let's see, what did we do for feisty
[11:21] <slangasek> mjg59: milestoning to RC for now would be good
[11:21] <mjg59> slangasek: Done
[11:21] <slangasek> pochu: oh, then I think I didn't get the context for your second request, hang on a sec
[11:22] <cjwatson> ok, I've added an ubuntu-7.10 milestone
[11:22] <pochu> slangasek: the first one is tested, and shouldn't have any regression...
[11:24] <slangasek> pochu: hnngh, the second one seems quite the ugly workaround
[11:25] <pochu> that's why I'm not sure about it...
[11:26] <slangasek> sigh, it appears to do what's intended though; if it works for you and it hits the queue soon enough (i.e., within a day of RC), I'm inclined to allow it all the same
[11:26] <cjwatson> I think we *are* within a day of RC :-)
[11:26] <slangasek> I meant on the other end actually :)
[11:27] <cjwatson> oh, right :)
[11:27] <pochu> Ouch, I thought RC was next week :)
[11:27] <slangasek> heh, nope
[11:27] <slangasek> wow, even the cups are more friendly around here
[11:27] <pochu> Ok, will patch it tomorrow and test it (I'll also upload to ppa and ask others to do the same).
[11:28] <pochu> cjwatson: thanks :)
[11:44] <heno> *** New desktop CDs are available for testing *** Please help test and file your results at https://iso.qa.stgraber.org
[11:45] <Keybuk> heno: still says rebuilding
[11:46] <pitti> Keybuk: I just added them
[11:51] <slangasek> mvo: it was ok to accept the most recently uploaded translations, wasn't it?  earlier you said we only needed to wait for cjwatson's ok, which he gave
[11:53] <mvo> slangasek: yes, pitti was so kind to accept universe/multiverse, I will test if the translations show up correctly and then we can accept the other two (I expect no problems, I'm just super cautious)
[11:54] <slangasek> mvo: well, I missed that second discussion and have gone ahead with accepting them, so if there are any other problems please find them soon :-)
[11:54] <bddebian> OK kiddie time, bbiab