kwwii_bspencer: sorry, my ssh connection to my server was dead for the last few hours01:45
kwwii_bspencer: I'll try to sort that our tommorow and get back to you01:45
kwwii_bspencer: probably something provisional for now. it is kinda late to start worrying about themeing now01:46
kwwii_bspencer: I did keep saying we need to get things rolling again and again, not much more we can do now probably01:46
bspencerkwwii_, sure01:46
kwwiiI have to say that I am totally unhappy about how the whole themeing stuff has gone01:49
bspencersay more01:49
bspenceryou waiting for us and us not getting our part done?01:49
kwwiiwell, I sent many mails discussing the problems and it seems that it was always assumed that I would do the artwork and the development of such01:50
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kwwiiyes, basically01:50
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bspencerI feel like we dropped the ball too.  Our PRC holiday took a lot out at the end and I was unable to create the new HTML and work on theme packages01:51
bspencermaybe we could just drop in some graphics in the existing hildon-theme-mobile-basic  package01:51
bspencerand work on the complete theme package post-gutsy due to freeze01:52
kwwiiwell, I know that on my side there will be no excuses as to why things did not get done...I must say that I am very unhappy with the intel side of this whole deal - without adilson we would not have any theme package at all01:55
kwwiii mean, how hard can it be to change the flash bg from blue to orange?01:56
bspencerhm, I'm totally unaware of any help from adilson01:56
bspenceror changes to the flash pkg01:56
bspenceror any theme whatsoever01:57
bspencerI know of this broken theme I've been hacking on adding graphics from jason01:57
bspencerand Peter_u3 was doing some work to get the tools for building themes to work I thought01:57
bspenceris there a theme package from adilson?01:57
bspencerI recently added support in the mobile-basic-flash package for updating the background both for flash and new HTML version based on user preferences01:58
bspencerand also notification in the HTML version for updating the theme01:58
kwwiibspencer: lol, he is the one who has now stepped up and make the theme package01:59
kwwiithe hildon theme package01:59
kwwiiI have been going on and one about that and nobody seemed to care to he had to take care of it01:59
kwwiiand now we have some half-way sollution01:59
kwwiiwith the old layout02:00
kwwiiI am not going to buy flash to change the background of the flash package that we cannot distribute anway02:00
kwwiiif there was more to it, I would but just to change that it is stupid02:01
kwwiiit seems to me that some people simply do not want to change to our them02:01
bspencerI honestly never remember any request to change the flash background.  seriously02:01
bspencerI do :)02:02
kwwiiI send an email a few days ago stating this02:02
bspencerwell crap on us.  sorry dude.  02:02
bspencerrecently Mithrandir pulled a new mobile-basic-flash package02:02
bspencerit defaults to HTLM02:02
bspencerno flash req'd 02:02
bspencerthis probably doesn't make anyone really happy, but if you want to change its background you can02:03
bspencerand the graphics for the buttons are in the theme, if they exist at all02:03
bspencerso if you are using adilson_theme package, then there are likley no graphics called mb_gridhtml_*02:03
bspencerso the UI will look lame02:03
kwwiiI can give you buttons, as I said in my email but they will be for our theme and not for another color02:04
kwwiiit seems like whatever I say if it is not centered around not doing a black-orange theme it gets somehow ignored02:04
bspencerwhat is adilson's theme called?02:04
kwwiiume-basic I think02:04
bspenceris it in gutsy?02:04
kwwiiI think he already submitted it, not sure02:05
bspencerok.  I don't see it in the repo yet.  02:05
bspencerI'll try to get wth him next time he is alive and sync02:05
kwwiithere were a few problems, as expected02:05
kwwiithe hildon theme tools download the layout from maemo02:05
kwwiithe fact that we are figuring this out now says a lot about the process02:06
bspencergranted making the theme was way more complex than I anticipated02:06
kwwiiwe need to change the tools themselves to fit our stuff02:06
bspencerI'm pretty sure that my guys don't know what those changes are02:06
kwwiino matter which color it is02:07
bspencerfor our layout specifically?02:07
kwwiiour layout being the layout-4 with the things we do not need removed (perhaps) and the things we do need added (like the marquee, buttons, etc)02:08
kwwiiif the artist has to tell people what to do as far as coding goes there is real problem if you ask me02:08
bspenceryou're not just the artist02:10
bspencerthough you play one well02:10
bspencerI think Peter should document our knowledge of themes on a wiki so we all get on the same page02:11
bspencerbut that is after gutsy02:11
bspencerfor gutsy we should tweak adilson's theme and see if we can get it in02:11
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bspencerimages/mb_gridhome_btn_active.png  images/mb_gridhome_btn.png  images/mb_gridhome_btn_prelight.png02:12
kwwiilol, my job is just artist..that I happen to know a bit more because of my experience does not mean that I have the time do that for this project02:12
kwwiiI am working on like 4 other artwork projects at the same time02:12
bspencerfair enough.  I'm working on like 10 other applications at the same time and trying to keep my marriage in tact02:13
kwwiiI can give good advice where neccesary but that does not meant that I am opening a vi to start coding :-)02:13
kwwiioh, yeah, I am married with child as well02:13
kwwiitime for bed02:14
bspencerglad to send you off on a good note02:14
kwwiisee you soon02:14
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dholbachgood morning08:13
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Peter_u3kwwii, you around?10:19
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kwwiiPeter_u3: hi01:05
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Peter_kwwi, you around?04:42
Peter_kwwii, you around?04:42
kwwiiPeter_: yes, but I am in a conf call atm04:46
Peter_kwwii, ok, nop. I just want to know if anything I can help. 04:47
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=== kwwii hops from one meeting to the next :-(
Mithrandirit's still another hour.04:55
Mithrandirfor this one, at least.04:55
kwwiiPeter_: teh biggest issue we have technically at the moment is figuring out how to use our own layout04:56
kwwiiMithrandir: I mean the distro meeting04:56
Mithrandiroh, true.04:56
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Peter_u3kwwi, I'm a bit confused. Once we are done with adding pieces to end of template.png one by one, the coordinate for new pieces should be clear without affecting existing elements. I proberbly didn't get your point, yes/no?05:17
kwwiiPeter_u3: yes, we just need to add the things somewhere in the file and then add them to the layout but look at the theme-tools and you will see that they want to download a layout from maemo svn...adilson has started work on this but we need to finish it and really get it right05:19
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Peter_u3kwwii, you mean layout.txt?05:24
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kwwiiPeter_u3: if you look at the tools to create a package you will see that it downloads stuff from maemo svn, that is the problem with the tools...in addition we need to add the coordinates to whatever pics we add to the layout, yes05:25
kwwiiso one part is getting the tools right and the other part is getting a theme package in bzr so that we can tweak it05:26
kwwiireally, I am just an artist who knows too much :p05:27
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Peter_u3downloads? I didn't see.  Strange. For adding coordinates to layout.txt, you are our only hope. Yes, you know much,:-), good guy.05:29
kwwiirun hildon-theme-bootstrap and see what it does05:29
kwwiibut we need to get a theme package in and set as default before we can really tweak and test anything05:29
kwwiiotherwise testing with the daily builds is a huge waste of time05:30
Peter_u3I don't think we need bootstrap. An artist don't need. 05:31
Peter_u3I didn't try to play with that. 05:31
kwwiiyes, an artist will definitely need it to create a basic package for their new theme05:32
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Peter_u3From a real use point, I don't believe OSV/OEM need bootstrap. kwwii, I mean they need a hildon-theme-toos without bootstrap.05:34
kwwiiPeter_u3: using bootstrap makes things much easier as they do not have to hunt through text files to set the name, email, etc05:35
kwwiiit is a great place to start a fresh new theme05:35
kwwiiwithout having to hack through an older one05:35
Peter_u3Hmm, yes, I admit it's true. But from schedule point, how about skipping it for this release and adding it next milestone. Anyway I will try to look at bootstrap tomorrow.05:36
kwwiiright, we can wait on those parts due to the schedule05:38
kwwiiin any case, you'll want to check with agoliveira to see what he has done on this stuff so far and where the problems lie that we still need to get fixed05:38
Peter_u3I didn't look at bootstrap yet. agoliveira, you are back from lunch?05:39
agoliveiraPeter_u3: Yes, just arrived I modified the theme-tools so we can grab a standard theme that Ken created from the repository so one can modify and upload to it. Right now we are testing it.05:40
kwwiithis has been a busy week for us :-)05:40
Peter_u3agoliveira, good news. 05:41
=== agoliveira can't agree more...
Peter_u3So any other thing I can help? 05:41
Peter_u3kwwii, yes, busy week for you. Sorry again I didn't notice you for my long vacation.05:42
Peter_u3rustyl, morning. you see my mail on ubuntu list? 05:43
rustylPeter_u3, i'm just now opening email05:44
=== kwwii wants vacation :-(
agoliveiraPeter_u3: BTW, I have a claws package for you to play with. I'll email ina  minute.05:44
Peter_u3agoliveira, ok. but I can only play with it tomorrow. is that ok?05:45
agoliveiraPeter_u3: No problem, it a holiday here tomorrow so I won't be working anyway :)05:46
Peter_u3kwwii, when was your last vacation? 05:46
Peter_u3rustyl, I want to get notification as system entering idle in/out. Any service under dev or plan for ppm?05:47
=== agoliveira is a month away from a week long vacation not know for about 5 years :)
kwwiiPeter_u3: about a year and a half ago05:48
rustylPeter_u3, ppm is not the software component that will put the system to sleep05:48
ian_brasilagoliveira: you are going to paradise so maybe this makes up for it!05:49
Peter_u3rustly, does ppm determine and send notification as system enter idle and out of idle triggered by a user touch?05:50
agoliveiraian_brasil: I can't be more anxious :)05:50
agoliveiraFor those wanting to know where it is: http://www.salinas.com.br/salinasindex.htm05:50
Peter_u3kwwii, agoliveira, it's awesome.05:51
amitkagoliveira: let's try to convince somebody to hold the next UDS there05:51
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ian_brasilthere is a convention centre at least!05:52
agoliveiraamitk: Well, they *do* have a good area for this kind of conference :)05:52
kwwiiwe probably would not get any work done though...and/or we would get work done and hate ourselves for not enjoying the plaec05:53
Peter_u3agoliveira, beautiful place. I hope I can attend next UDS.:)05:53
agoliveiraPeter_u3: I hope we can convince the boss about it :)05:54
Peter_u3rustyl, if ppm doesn't , which component does?05:54
rustylPeter_u3, what software component does this on a normal ubuntu system?05:56
Peter_u3I can hook notification from dbus service of org.gnome.ScreenSaver. And somebody told me gnome network manager has code doing that. But I didn't try to look into.05:57
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agoliveiraPeter_u3: Just sent you the patch. You can build and do your changes based on this. After you're done, send me the patch back and I'll integrate to it.05:59
Peter_u3agoliveira, get it. 05:59
Mithrandirasac: you around for the meeting?05:59
Mithrandirdavidm: and you?06:00
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davidmMithrandir, I am here06:00
asacwill be here in a few06:00
Mithrandirhiya Don, John06:00
loolMeeting chain up :)06:00
Don_JohnsonMithrandir, hello06:00
Peter_u3rustyl, there is a signal of "SessionIdleChange" for the service.06:00
MithrandirDon_Johnson: will charlie be joining us today?06:01
rustylPeter_u3, i suspect you should be looking into the hal dbus interface, but i'm not positive06:01
Don_JohnsonI'll check on charlie06:02
agoliveiraPeter_u3: Check libosso. It may help.06:02
MithrandirHappyCamp_laptop: seen Mauri around?06:03
cwong1Mithrandir: I can go check06:03
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Peter_u3rustyl, agoliveira, I will look at both. Good advice.06:03
Mithrandircwong1: cheers06:03
agoliveiraLet's start to bet food on the meetings. If you're not in time for the meeting you own a candy (or beer :) ) to the rest of us.06:03
HappyCamp_laptopMithrandir: I have not seen Mauri, I'm actually at home.06:04
cwong1Mithrandir: she is not at here desk at this moment06:04
Mithrandiragoliveira: beer > candy.06:04
Mithrandircwong1: could you or somebody else who are local to her and have her cell phone # give her a ring?06:04
rustylMauri is not in her cube06:05
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cwong1rustyl: do u have her cell #?06:05
rustyllet me see06:05
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rustylno answer06:06
rustylmaybe she is stuck in traffic06:07
Mithrandirhm, ok.06:07
Mithrandirrustyl: are all of your guys here, if you can assume command until she returns?06:07
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rustylwell, if bob is hear, then yea, lets go :->06:08
bspencermorning, afternoon, and evening ya'll06:08
rustylbtw, none of us seem to physically located in the same place06:08
bspencersorry 8miins late06:08
Peter_u3agoliveira, can you send me your latest theme package to me as well?06:08
Mithrandirok, let's start then06:09
MootBotMeeting started at 17:09. The chair is Mithrandir.06:09
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC] , [IDEA] , [ACTION] , [AGREED] , [LINK] , [VOTE] 06:09
agoliveiraPeter_u3: We talk after meeting, ok?06:09
bspenceragoliveira: how about during the meeting in another channel ?06:09
bspencerlike #ubuntu-theme06:10
Mithrandirhttp://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20071004_1705.html doesn't seem to have any action items from last week06:10
MootBotLINK received:  http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20071004_1705.html doesn't seem to have any action items from last week 06:10
agoliveirabspencer: Unless you're desperate, I prefer to pay attention here for now.06:10
bspenceragoliveira: np 06:11
agoliveirabspencer: Thanks06:11
Mithrandirdoes anybody have any more agenda items apart from the ones on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting?06:11
bspencerMithrandir: discuss gutsy deadlines for mobile06:11
bspencerare we done, or what does the freeze mean?06:12
Mithrandirsounds good, add it to the agenda?06:12
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: How about private builds ?/  (i.e. builds with flash included for example.)06:12
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: we have those now.  I can't make them public, for obvious reasons.06:13
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: but feel free to add it to the agenda and I can talk a little bit about them06:13
HappyCamp_laptopMithrandir: maybe general LPIA status?  06:13
bspencerMithrandir: and "Remaining to do's for gutsy" from the global view06:13
HappyCamp_laptopDo people think it has become as stable as the previous i386 builds.06:14
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: One item - Graphics config for Menlow installs ?06:14
Mithrandirjust add them all. :-)06:14
Mithrandiroh, and next time, please do this before the meeting, not at the start?06:15
bspencerhow -- on the wiki, or with Mootbot ?06:15
Mithrandirbspencer: on the wiki06:15
MithrandirMootBot doesn't know anything about agendas.06:15
Peter_u3Mithrandir, upgrade libtelepathy from 0.0.55 to 0.0.57. 06:15
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: Ok - didn't know if there was some magic command to enter agenda items or not.06:15
MithrandirI'll just start06:16
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  status reports06:17
MootBotNew Topic:  status reports 06:17
Mithrandirseems we have all the status reports on the list now, does anybody have any questions for any of them?06:17
dholbachPeter_u3: maybe directly update to 0.0.58 - it contains some "robustness against NULL errors" fixes06:17
Mithrandiramitk: your update, does this mean we now have lpia images without the stock drm.ko?06:18
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: For the HTML UI, when will that become the default UME UI ??  06:18
amitkMithrandir: yes06:18
bfillerI have a question about UI Status. Bob mentioned flash performance bug was fixed. Can you tell more?06:18
Peter_u3dholbach, I can't agree more. But we need Mithrandir's buyin.06:19
bspencerbfiller: there were two bugs, one was setTimeout (fn, 1)   which got called every 1/1000 of a second when there wasn't flash06:19
bspencerbfiller: bug #2 was in our flash where each icon loaded a startup animation in the background that was running.  So if you had 10 icons, you also had 10 running hidden movies06:19
bfillerbspencer: thanks06:20
agoliveirabspencer: That sould count for performace :)06:20
bfillerbspencer: one other ui related question: can you now get back to running apps without launching a new instance every time?06:21
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir, bspencer : Is the HTML UI still scheduled for integration into UME by the end Oct.??  Status says request upload to Gutsy?06:21
bspencerbfiller: you mean when you launch the browser 3 times do you always get the same instance, instead of 3 of them ?06:21
bfillerbspencer: yes06:22
bspencerbfiller: we have a bug for each app.  Some are done, some are not yet but highest priority06:22
bfillerbspencer: ok06:22
bspencerCharliefjohnson: It is ready for inclusion with gutsy now.  I spoke with mjg59 and he said he would do it friday06:23
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: I asked bspencer about it yesterday and he said uploading a new mobile-basic-flash at that point was sensible.  I think that gets us the HTML view by default.06:23
bspencerMithrandir: correct06:23
Mithrandirif mjg59 is doing it tomorrow I'll just let him do it.06:24
bspencerMithrandir: sounds good06:24
mjg59Yup, that's the plan06:24
Charliefjohnsonmjg59: So we should see daily builds with the new UI next week sometime ?06:24
bspencers/new/hot new06:25
mjg59Charliefjohnson: I assume so, yes06:25
MithrandirToddBrandt: for the keyboard configuration applet, have you given any thought to the hildon input method framework?06:26
smagoun__what's necessary to see the new ui now? Just installing the m-b-f from git?06:26
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bspencersmagoun__: and also a new hildon-theme-mobile-basic   This has the latest button backgrounds.   Then set your background to be black, and set your theme to hildon-theme-mobile-basic (instead of the non-existent Human) using gconf-editor06:27
ToddBrandtMithrandir: Jian has been focusing on the keyboard, what specifically did you have in mind?06:27
bspencersmagoun__:  piece of cake.  :)06:27
smagoun__bspencer: thanks, that sounds like fun!06:27
kwwiiwhen we will get all that done in the default install?06:28
MithrandirToddBrandt: have you looked at the input framework at all?06:28
CharliefjohnsonDid the menlow builds get fixed so that the non-Poulsbo drm modules are no longer included ??06:28
bspencerkwwii:  next steps (my opinion):  get agoliveira / kwwii  theme working with HTML UI, make it the default.  We can perhaps do that today/tomorrow for upload by mjg59 this friday06:29
ToddBrandtMithrandir: no, I've been focusing on keybindings, sound, and brightness06:29
bspencerkwwii:   and I will work with ToddBrandt to get default settings into gconf for background color and theme selection06:29
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: yes.06:29
bspencerkwwii: something like that ...?06:29
kwwiibspencer: right, let's get that done asap (although today is already over for me)06:29
bspencerkwwii: you work lame hours man.  Never when I do.06:29
kwwiisometimes I stay up late just to be grumpy though :p06:30
bspencerappreciated ;)06:30
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: OK - great!06:30
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MithrandirCharliefjohnson: btw, if you want any of your items discussed, it would be good to add them to the agenda.06:30
agoliveirabspencer: I won't be working tomorrow (religious holiday here) but we can settle that on monday.06:30
Mithrandiranyway, let's move on?06:30
bspencerCharliefjohnson:  edit this page:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting06:30
bfillerToddBrandt: I saw that one of the moblin-applets changes required a patched hildon-control-panel. This lives in both moblin and launchpad. When will all the hildon stuff be removed from moblin?06:31
bspenceragoliveira: monday is soo far away.  If you can hand off your stuff to Peter_u3 then he and I can do more06:31
bspencerbfiller:  hildon-control-panel is on moblin?   06:31
agoliveirabspencer: Sure, let's talk about it later.06:31
ToddBrandtbfiller: That patch is for gstreamer initialization and is bad, I'll be removing it today06:31
bfillerbspencer: it's listed in http://moblin.org/repos/projects/, as well as hildon-libs06:32
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  Update on broken daily builds06:32
MootBotNew Topic:  Update on broken daily builds 06:32
Peter_u3agoliveira, you can get you holiday planned :)06:32
ToddBrandtbfiller: the sound configuration applet will also be temporarily disabled as Rusty and I have determined that it's not very useful for mobile platforms06:32
Mithrandirthe daily builds for mccaslin has been fixed for a little while, but menlow has been broken due to the stock drm.ko being included.06:32
Mithrandiramitk has now fixed that, so we should hopefully have nice and working images tomorrow.06:33
Mithrandirany questions?06:33
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: Is the xorg.conf also being set right now?06:33
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: I've never had a problem with that being wrong.06:33
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: are you starting X by hand?06:34
CharliefjohnsonNo - Instead of setting the 2D driver to "psb", it was using something else.  06:35
agoliveirafbdev IIRC06:35
Mithrandir/etc/X11/xorg.conf isn't used, so what's there is irrelevant.06:35
amitkCharliefjohnson: on crownbeach or samsungs?06:36
amitknevermind.. psb -> crownbeach06:36
agoliveiraMithrandir: I guess I'm missing something here. Where is the driver being set?06:36
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir:  Maybe I'm clueless.  The newer X servers are not using xorg.conf ??  (I only run Crownbeach.)06:36
Mithrandirit's using /etc/X11/xorg-crownbeach.conf (iirc, that's the name, it should be easy enough to see)06:37
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: OK - got it.  Thanks.06:37
Mithrandirmoving on, then06:38
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  private builds06:38
MootBotNew Topic:  private builds 06:38
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: what is it you were wondering about those?06:39
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: What the mechanics will be ?? Where, what and how?06:39
Mithrandirit's essentially just a mechanism for stuffing anything which isn't in the archive into a build.06:40
Mithrandirit has to come from an archive of some sort, though.06:40
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: So can we start doing a menlow_full private buidl which include the flash plugin?06:40
MithrandirI want to use this as little as possible so as to give people an incentive to get their fixes into the archive, but some bits, like the Adobe flash player we can't distribute at all, so that would be appropriate.06:41
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: yes, we've been doing those for a few days already.06:41
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: Can you send an email about where to find them?06:41
MithrandirCharliefjohnson: we'll have to set up password-protected download areas and such.  That is not yet ready.06:42
MithrandirI'll talk to the cdimage folks about how exactly we're going to publish them.06:42
Mithrandirthey shouldn't be listed anywhere, nor should they be rsyncable without a password.06:42
mdzMithrandir: please file a ticket in RT about the download area06:43
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: OK thanks.  Our internal test teams would appreciate it.06:43
agoliveiraCan't we just have a icon or menu item that just apt-get flashplugin-nonfree06:43
mdzMithrandir: the sooner the better, so they are aware06:43
Mithrandir[ACTION]  tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up.06:44
MootBotACTION received:  tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up. 06:44
Mithrandirany more questions?06:44
CharliefjohnsonMithrandir: not from me.06:44
Mithrandirmoving on, then06:44
Mithrandir[TOPIC]  TODO for gutsy06:45
MootBotNew Topic:  TODO for gutsy 06:45
bspencerwe are cognizant of the fact that we are in a deep freeze and we want to know how long we should continue full-court press to try and get things into UME gutsy06:45
bspencerso in the next few days, is it still possible to upload new bits and what is left before we are done with anything gutsy06:45
bspencerand can relax and get acquainted with our wives and kids back home06:46
mdzbspencer: the release team are projecting Monday evening as drop-dead for 7.1006:46
CharliefjohnsonIMHO: if the target for UME is now Hardy - then why do we care bout Gutsy anyway.06:46
Mithrandirfrom experience, that sounds about right.06:46
bspencerCharliefjohnson: good point.  perhaps I shouldn't06:46
mdzthis bleeds into the topic I was going to raise next06:46
mdzwhich is planning for the transition to hardy06:46
bspencer my goal was a working HTML UI with theme in gutsy06:47
bspencerw/o flash requirement 06:47
mdzwe may have an awkward period where there is a lot of churn in hardy, prior to the first milestone06:47
mdzand I wanted to raise the question of whether we can just tolerate that, or if we should make some arrangements to temporarily continue development based on 7.10 in order to keep things moving06:47
Mithrandirwe need to bite the bullet at some point, and I'd like us to do it early rather than late.06:48
Mithrandirat the same time, we need to not end up being blocked on everything being unstable06:48
mdzit is quite likely that we will not be able to create images based on Hardy for several weeks06:48
bspencerMithrandir: HappyCamp would like your style, but it stinks to have unusable stuff.06:49
bfillermdz: keeping things moving for UME customers would be a good thing06:49
mdzand a lack of builds has been an issue for Charliefjohnson and others in the past06:49
bspencermdz: we definately need to be able to create new images all the time (IMO)06:49
Charliefjohnsonmdz: We have a number of driver integrations coming in late Oct./early Nov.  We'd like to not block those due to the switch over to hardy.06:49
MithrandirI've estimated that we'll have our first usable build of Hardy on November 10th.06:49
bfillermdz: some sort of transistion plan sounds appropriate06:49
Mithrandirbut that's a guess more than anything else.06:49
Don_JohnsonWe need to get some way to get releases turned around and into builds, reasonably quickly06:50
mdzMithrandir: so that means no fresh builds from 15 October - 10 November06:50
agoliveiraMaybe wi will have to fork and keep going on 7.10 before stop later at some point and spend time just merging...06:50
=== agoliveira shivers on the tought...
mdzCharliefjohnson: there's no reason to believe this would block integrating the drivers, just producing a complete build based on them06:50
mdzthough that certainly makes testing more difficult06:50
loolCan't we pursue the builds against gutsy + ppa thanks to the new work by Mithrandir to allow gutsy + private archive ?06:50
mdzagoliveira: it's not as bad as it sounds06:50
mdzlool: that's what I proposed06:50
loolUh I can't read then, sorry06:50
amitkwhich brings up a question? Should driver integrations happen before or after the sync to 2.6.23?06:51
mdzlool: on the mailing list, I mean06:51
agoliveiramdz: Deppending on how long it takes, can become ugly.06:51
Mithrandirlool: the mechanism I've created is flexible enough to allow that to happen without any extra effort.06:51
loolmdz: Ah06:51
mdzamitk: I'd suggest tracking the head of development06:51
CharliefjohnsonI really think we we'll need to have the continued Gutsy builds until Hardy is ready.06:51
agoliveiraCharliefjohnson: "ready" is a pretty gray area :)06:52
loolmdz: It arrived during the meeting!06:52
bspenceragoliveira: bootable to a working UI06:52
mdzCharliefjohnson: continued gutsy builds won't help us, since no new code will be flowing into Gutsy (since it will have been released).  What we can do is create a side repository, and do builds based on Gutsy + further mobile-specific updates06:52
Mithrandirwe don't have support for doing both gutsy and hardy-based builds at the same time, so that would require more work.  JFYI.06:52
amitkmdz: I agree, but there _might_ be cases where the driver (which seem to be written for 2.6.18-20) might not just work. I want to make sure Charliefjohnson & team understand that06:53
Charliefjohnsonmdz: Sorry - I mean your Gutsy + mobile updates.  What we really can't have a 4 weeks without a build to test with.06:53
loolMithrandir: But perhaps the private builds against private archive need to be namespaced already?06:53
mdzCharliefjohnson: I'm inclined to agree, hence the suggestions06:54
Mithrandirlool: they are.06:54
mdzamitk: drivers written for 2.6.18 won't work on gutsy either, no?06:54
mdzMithrandir: I don't think we need parallel builds06:54
loolMithrandir: But not with gutsy? ok06:54
mdzMithrandir: we go from gutsy -> gutsy+ppa -> hardy, always a single build06:54
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amitkmdz: probably, but the deltas are smaller.06:55
Mithrandirmdz: that's doable.06:55
Charliefjohnsonmdz: Yes that would be fine. 06:55
loolmdz: Doesn't make it easy to test the hardy builds before switching06:55
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Mithrandirlool: sure it does, I have a couple of setups which I can cron into doing daily builds just fine.06:55
agoliveiraFor some time things will overlap a bit but it seems the best plan so far.06:55
Mithrandirthey just wouldn't be DC internal06:55
loolMithrandir: Oh ok; I don't quite understand what those builds exactly do so specially that individuals can't build images yet06:56
mdzlool: that can be tested using moblin-image-creator06:56
mdzlool: the daily builds just use image-creator with a special configuration06:56
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Mithrandirlool: there's nothing magic about them and anybody can build them.06:57
loolHmm Intel got some network issue06:57
mdzlooks like intel just fell off the face of the earth06:57
Mithrandirmdz: at least the intarweb.  Let's hope they're still alive. :-)06:57
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Mithrandirwell, the DC-internal archive is of course DC-internal, but I have the files that go into it06:57
loolmdz: So the existence of the daily builds is simply to help people who can't run image creator, I suppose people from test teams and QA etc.?06:57
mdzMithrandir: if it was a natural disaster, they'd time out individually ;-)06:57
Mithrandirgood point.06:57
mdzlool: it's to provide an official build which is always up to date06:58
Mithrandirlool: it's also a reference point.06:58
mdzlool: so that people can replicate each other's results in testing, e.g.06:58
mdzit's a known quantity06:58
Mithrandirideally, you should be able to do your development without having to use the image creator at all.  We're just not there yet.06:58
HappyCamp_laptop:(     ;)06:58
loolI guess I will understand things better whenI roll some images and stuff06:58
agoliveiraLet's stop talking about AMD now...06:59
MithrandirI suggest we wait for Intel to get back online before we continue?06:59
HappyCamp_laptopGood thing I am doing this from home then :)06:59
agoliveiraHappyCamp_laptop: So it wasn't yosemite's volcano yet?07:00
HappyCamp_laptopNope, I live about 1km from Intel, so not a natural disaster.07:00
Peter_u3I come here from intel network. 07:00
agoliveiraI think I meant yellowstone...07:00
HappyCamp_laptopMy FTTP (Fiber To The Premises) is still going strong.07:01
HappyCamp_laptopPeter_u3: are you at JF?07:01
amitkHappyCamp_laptop: what speeds to you get?07:01
=== agoliveira feels envy now...
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davidmHappyCamp_laptop FIOS is great.07:01
HappyCamp_laptop15/2 Mbps07:01
HappyCamp_laptopCan go faster, but much, much more expensive.07:01
amitknot bad at all... 07:01
bspencerseems Intel proxy kicked off people 07:02
HappyCamp_laptopbspencer: you are back!!07:02
Peter_u3no, shanghai. but I uses jf proxy07:02
bspencerI'm at home.. just stepped out of the proxy07:02
HappyCamp_laptoprustyl is at work, so was cwong1.07:02
HappyCamp_laptopWe may have to continue without them.07:02
loolbspencer: "IRC isn't for work!"07:03
bspencerthey work to hard07:03
bspencerlool: right.  smart IT folks are onto us!07:03
=== HappyCamp_laptop wonders if JF had a power failure???
bspencerHappyCamp_laptop: no.  I chatted with cwong in #umd after they dropped07:03
bspenceragoliveira: we can talk about theme for a sec during the silence07:04
Mithrandirdid we end up with a conclusion here?  Do gutsy, gutsy + ppa, hardy builds?07:04
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HappyCamp_laptopAh okay.  Well who knows when they will be able to get back online.  We probably should continue.  07:04
Mithrandirwhat are the particular bits we really want to happen for gutsy?07:04
bspencerMithrandir:  can we test hardy using image creator + repo settings during the gutsy+ppa transition?07:05
HappyCamp_laptopbspencer: didn't you want to get the changes to galculator in?  Or can that wait?07:05
Mithrandirbspencer: yes, that should absolutely be possible.07:05
bspencerMithrandir: good Q07:05
bspencerhere's what I would like:07:05
bspencer - HTML UI with theme07:06
bspencer - new moblin-media update (with theme graphics)07:06
bspenceron friday07:06
HappyCamp_laptopbspencer: Mithrandir Moblin Image Creator can handle different repositories, if we create different platforms for stuff.07:06
mdz[AGREED]  continue to build on Gutsy, supplemented by a PPA, during the transition from gutsy to hardy07:06
mdzMithrandir: poke07:06
bspencer...oh... I also need to set some default gconf settings for this to work.  So that would be a new moblin-applets07:06
bspencerthat's all 07:06
Mithrandir[AGREED]  continue to build on Gutsy, supplemented by a PPA, during the transition from gutsy to hardy07:06
MootBotAGREED received:  continue to build on Gutsy, supplemented by a PPA, during the transition from gutsy to hardy 07:06
mjg59bspencer: Ok. I'll work with you to sort the graphics fo moblin-media?07:06
Mithrandirbspencer: looks easy enough..07:07
Mithrandirmjg59: you can handle those two tomorrow?07:07
bspencerMithrandir: OK.  greatly appreciated07:07
mjg59Mithrandir: Yup07:07
Mithrandirmjg59: great, thanks.07:08
bspencermjg59: what are your hours?07:08
bspencertime zone07:08
Mithrandirany other bits we want/need for gutsy?07:08
bspencerMithrandir: question.  We have a new hildon-desktop07:08
Peter_u3Mithrandir, upgrade of libtelepathy07:09
bspencernew = updated with latest from Hildon07:09
mjg59bspencer: UTC+107:09
bspencerwe pulled down 0.0.4307:09
Mithrandirlool: have you had a chance to look at updating the hildon-desktop we have?07:09
mjg59bspencer: But I've a dentist's appointment between 11 and 1207:09
Mithrandirlool: it sounds like you and bspencer should talk. :-)07:09
bspencerto try to sync with the closest to Hildon v2.0, though they have not yet released07:09
bspencermjg59: :)  ok.  I was wondering for Friday deadline :)07:09
bfillerbspencer: looks like a ton of memory leaks and other nices fixes have been added to hildon-desktop trunk, so I'd vote for it07:10
bspencerMithrandir: what about also updating Hildon-desktop for gutsy.07:10
MithrandirPeter_u3: (I have seen you, just trying to get one thing done at a time).07:10
mjg59bspencer: I'll still be around ~close of business west coast07:10
bspencergive me an inch and i'll take a mile07:10
Mithrandirbspencer: how confident are we stuff works afterwards?07:10
bspencerMithrandir: guaranteed07:11
agoliveirabspencer: Famous lat word :)07:11
bspencerright.  well I know it poses some risk, but we can make sure that all of the UI stuff works together before uploading the group07:11
Mithrandirbspencer: I'd like lool's input on it, since I asked him to poke at it, but he seems to have fallen asleep.07:11
bspencerthe group:  hildon-desktop, marquee-plugins, mobile-basic-flash, new theme07:12
loolMithrandir: No, I didn't look into updates yet07:12
loolMithrandir: I want to be able to test the changes to not risk any regression07:12
Mithrandirbspencer: the new theme being the one from kwwii ?07:13
bspencerour new hildon-desktop is available at:  http://moblin.org/repos/develop/hildon-desktop-0.0.43.git/07:13
Mithrandirlool: any chance you could get that done tomorrow, or are you busy with too many other things?07:13
bspencerMithrandir: yes, the non-existent theme from ken, agoliveria and Intel.  The one we've been working /closely/ on... or will be soon07:13
loolMithrandir: The problem is not doing it, it's testing it07:13
bspencerlool: we have resources to help07:13
Mithrandirlool: as in, you need builds with it?07:13
loolMithrandir: I can take the time to do it tomorrow if you like07:13
bspencerhow can we best use them?07:14
loolMithrandir: As in I don't know how to test it :)07:14
Mithrandirlool: ah, ok.07:14
loolMithrandir: I currently have no Xnest with hildon, nor a physical device07:14
Mithrandirgood point.07:14
loolI would be more confortable if I could ensure that after the update I can still run the desktop07:14
MithrandirI or davidm can test it if you prepare the updates.07:14
loolOk; I'm noting that as TODO then07:14
mdzlool: your physical device is on its way07:15
bspencersweet.  sounds like another sleepless night of crunching07:15
loolmdz: Cool07:15
Mithrandirlool: prod me when you have something and I'll make my hardware churn.07:15
loolmdz: I hope they find the "small" town07:15
Mithrandirthe 60k inhabitant hamlet.07:15
loolbspencer: May I ask how the bzr repo for hildon-desktop in Launchpad and your git repo relate?07:16
loolbspencer: Did you git clone the maemo SVN?07:16
mdzlool: they both have "hildon-desktop" in the name :-/07:16
bspencerlool: yes, then made UME specific changes07:16
bspencerlool: we will look at the current differences and document them for you today07:16
mdzwe already had a branch of hildon-desktop in LP with our UME-specific changes07:16
loolbspencer: I should be able to git diff if you git cloned the SVN07:16
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loolbspencer: Unless you didn't include any commit message and changelog entry, which I doubt, you don't need to document these thanks07:17
loolbspencer: (but i'll contact you if I don't understand something)07:17
bfillerMithrandir: can you make sure the patch I posted to the list gets applied to the new hildon-desktop as well?07:17
Mithrandirbfiller: -> lool07:17
Mithrandir[ACTION]  lool to prepare new hildon-desktop and friends07:17
MootBotACTION received:  lool to prepare new hildon-desktop and friends 07:17
Mithrandir[ACTION]  davidm, tfheen to test lool's updates07:18
MootBotACTION received:  davidm, tfheen to test lool's updates 07:18
bspencerlool: right, but we started with Hildon upstream.  So the mapping between the LP hildon-desktop may not be well documented.07:18
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loolbfiller: ntoed07:18
bfillerlool: thanks07:18
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loolbspencer: Any other package that need an update?07:19
bspencerlool: I just need to check that hildon-control-panel is where it needs to be07:19
bspencerI don't know how this relates to hildon-desktop updates07:19
bspencerbtw, the hildon-desktop from upstream hasn't changed drastically from LP.  But there are small bug fixes.  just fyi07:20
Mithrandirok, moving on to libtelepathy 0.0.55 -> 0.0.5807:20
MithrandirPeter_u3: how big are the changes, and have you tested them?07:20
MithrandirPeter_u3: also, what else do they affect?07:20
loolbspencer: So i'll only review hildon-desktop then; ping me if you would like me to merge hildon-control-panel as well07:20
bspencerlool yes, will do that07:21
bspencerToddBrandt: ping07:21
Peter_u3Mithrandir: they bring new interfaces and signals for avatars change and some other bug fixes. I didn't test yet.07:21
ToddBrandtbspencer: pong07:21
=== kwwii has to head out and pick up the kid from basketball practice, anything else for me?
bspencerkwwii: agoliveira and I will sync up on his theme work07:22
bspencerkwwii: chat with you sometime later before you head to sleep tonight07:22
kwwiibspencer: cool, I will be online later and tomorrow as well 07:22
Peter_u3libtelepathy affects moblin-chat only, from my view. 07:22
agoliveirakwwii: We can catch up opn thsi later07:22
kwwiisee you all later07:22
davidmkwwii, bye07:22
MithrandirPeter_u3: it affects empathy and galago-telepathy-feed and telepathy-stream-engine too?07:22
bspencerToddBrandt: just a note that you and I need to sync today on what you need in gutsy.  hildon-control-panel with new hildon-desktop, moblin-applets settings, etc.  07:23
Peter_u3Mithrandir, yes, all telepathy components and clients.07:23
ToddBrandtbspencer: hildon-control-panel has a fix that we added way back, I think it's already in gutsy, and moblin-applets will be completed this evening07:23
bfillerbspencer, Mithrandir: where should midbrowser source be hosted? It's currently on LP and in moblin..07:24
bspencerToddBrandt: ok.  then we should be in good shape.  I need to add 2-3 default values into gconf settings.07:24
Mithrandir[ACTION]  bspencer and ToddBrandt to sync up on what components from Todd should be uploaded to gutsy07:24
MootBotACTION received:  bspencer and ToddBrandt to sync up on what components from Todd should be uploaded to gutsy 07:24
Mithrandirbfiller: -> asac07:24
bspencerbfiller: midbrowser upstream is moblin, but LP always syncs with upstream07:25
MithrandirPeter_u3: can you get them to comment on it, and follow the procedure I posted on the mailing list?07:25
bfillerbspencer: ok. seems like the LP is not in sync07:26
bspencerbfiller: hm, ok.  I defer to asac 07:26
asacbfiller: midbrowser source is hosted at moblin ... while the packaging (aka debian/ dir) is hosted on launchpad07:26
Peter_u3OK, but it should be a long period to verify everything. I'll try to see changelog and diff, ok07:26
bspencerPeter_u3: I'll try to read Rob McQueen today.  He could give us his opinoin07:27
Mithrandirjust ask on #telepathy and you should be fine07:27
bfillerasac: ok, thanks07:27
Mithrandir[ACTION]  Peter_u3 to talk to telepathy upstream about new libtelepathy.07:28
MootBotACTION received:  Peter_u3 to talk to telepathy upstream about new libtelepathy. 07:28
Peter_u3Mithrandir: get it07:28
Mithrandirthat concludes the agenda.  Anybody got anything more?07:28
asacbfiller: maybe i have forgotten to push the latest changes to LP ... will look into this tomorrow.07:28
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Peter_u3bspencer, that's great. If you can reach him today, then I can get from you tomorrow morning.07:29
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davidmMithrandir, if the new libtelepathy is good how are we going to deploy, PPA?07:30
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Mithrandirdavidm: if we find it's good tonight/tomorrow, gutsy's fine, we can always just upload it to a PPA later even if we don't trust it yet.07:30
loolFor people from intel joining back the meeting http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.20071011_1709.html http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/ubuntu-mobile.log.20071011_1709.html07:30
davidmOK, just wanted to make sure since we are likely to know before the next meeting in any event.07:31
Mithrandirunless anybody has anything more, I think we'll adjourn.07:31
bfillerasac: I was just confused becaue I expected to see the full source on LP07:31
bfillerasac: not just the debian stuf07:32
MootBotMeeting finished at 18:33.07:33
asacthanks all07:33
=== Mithrandir goes to find some tea
loolGoes eating dinner07:34
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agoliveiraJust a reminder that I won't be working tomorrow but I'll read my emails from time to time.08:03
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kwwiijoin #ubuntu-artwork09:23
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kwwiibspencer_: just read your email09:35
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kwwiibspencer_: I have a template.png done...I can cut that up, create the gtkrc, etc and send it to you...then we need to identify the missing pieces and I will simply create them by hand09:36
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kwwiiwell, as the current install does not have an xterm and image-creator just b0rks I see little way to get anything done10:01
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bspencerkwwii, got your mail12:37
bspencerHappyCamp, do you know why image-creator is failing to build and image for kwwii 12:38
kwwiibspencer: I get the error when I try to add a functional set12:38
kwwiiany set, and it fails12:38
HappyCampbspencer, no idea, since I haven't seen any log files or anything.12:38
kwwiimy system runs gutsy12:39
kwwiiHappyCamp: is there some log file I can give you?12:39
bspencerkwwii, can you paste where you think the error is?12:39
HappyCampkwwii, the output from image creator, you can paste it at http://moblin.pastebin.org/12:39
bspencerHappyCamp, can you give me access to the wiki?12:40
kwwiiI'll have to retype everything as the text in the popup is not copy-able12:40
bspencerkwwii, go to the terminal where you started image-creator12:40
bspencerit has the error in all the text somewhere near the end12:40
bspencershould have similar text to the popup which tells you nothing useful12:40
kwwiiok, it is running now...give it a minute or two12:40
HappyCampkwwii, You can also run image-creator like:  sudo image-create 2>&1 | tee output.txt12:41
bspencerHappyCamp, how do I make image creator only go to ubuntu (not use moblin.org) ?  So that I get exactly what kwwii gets?12:43
HappyCampUse the version in gutsy?  bspencer 12:43
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bspencerHappyCamp, it is more than a configuration setting?12:45
HappyCampbspencer, I really do not know what is in the Ubuntu version.  Not sure if they only remove the build.list file.12:46
kwwiiat this point in time I would be happy to just get a usable image to dd to my usb stick12:46
HappyCampkwwii, can you paste a lot more of the output?12:46
kwwiiHappyCamp: sure...http://moblin.pastebin.org/463512:47
HappyCampkwwii, though it looks like to me that you are not being able to do an "apt-get install".  So either your network is messed up, or you could try doing an apt-get upgrade first.12:48
HappyCampYou could try installing the core-fset and then do an apt-get upgrade in the target terminal.12:48
kwwiiHappyCamp: I am totally up to date12:49
HappyCampkwwii, bspencer I see the problem: : E: Couldn't find package mobile-player12:49
bspencerit says "can't find Mobile Player"12:49
kwwiinothing to upgrade12:49
bspencerthat is not moblin-media12:49
kwwiiahhh, upgrade from the core12:49
kwwiinow I get it12:49
bspencerHappyCamp, where do you get your list of apps to install?12:49
kwwiimy network works fine or I would not be talking to you :p12:50
HappyCampbspencer, from the FSETs12:50
bspencerwhen they updated the moblin media they probably didn't update the fset12:50
bspencerHappyCamp, can he update the fsets with a configuration file?12:50
bspencerkwwii, go here:  /usr/share/pdk12:50
bspencerkwwii, go here:  /usr/share/pdk/platforms/mccaslin-lpia/fsets12:51
bspenceredit base.fset12:51
bspencerreplace "mobile player" with "moblin-media"  (note the "mobile" vs "moblin")12:51
bspencerthen try again12:51
HappyCampWe should let Mithrandir know that moblin-media has replaced mobile-player and he needs to update moblin-image-creator in Gutsy, or pull or latest version in.12:51
=== HappyCamp hopes that me saying it in IRC will let him know :)
bspencerbut, if this is the real bug, then you should already be able to install "core" fset. 12:52
HappyCampYes, kwwii should be able to install the "core" fset.12:52
kwwiibspencer: that file does not exist on my local system12:53
kwwiiI assume that is in the chroot?12:53
bspencerexit image-creator12:53
HappyCampkwwii, no, not in the chroot12:53
bspenceron your local system12:53
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bspencerkwwii, it is confusing, I know.  This will tell image-creator to use a different package when insgtalling the fsets.12:54
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kwwiibspencer: there is no mccaslin-lpia just mccaslin12:55
bspencerkwwii, ok.12:55
bspencerthat's find12:55
bspencerHappyCamp, I updated moblin-image-creator, added a Developer Tools fset, and pushed12:56
kwwiiok, let's see if this works12:56
HappyCampbspencer, recently?12:57
bspencerHappyCamp, I also updated the mobile player to moblin-media12:57
bspenceryes, two days ago12:57
bspencerbut I see no record 12:57
bspencersomething is wacky12:57
kwwiinot sure yet, but that seems to have helped12:57
kwwiiit downloaded the moblin-media at least12:58
HappyCampbspencer, remember when you checked out that particular version?  You didn't do your commits starting from there did you?12:58
bspencerHappyCamp, perhaps that's the rub12:58
bspenceron my "bob" branch12:58
HappyCampbspencer, I don't see your commit anywhere: http://www.moblin.org/repos/tools/moblin-image-creator.git/12:58
bspencerright, I'm looking at the git log here too12:59
bspencerfeels like I'm in the twilight zone12:59
bspencerkwwii, here's what I do, your mileage may vary:   I open a target terminal and create a /root/src directory.  I then mount --bind  my source from my workstation terminal to this src directory ( e.g. sudo mount --bind /home/bob/src/ /opt/lpia10/targets/t1/fs/root/src/ ) 01:17
bspencerThen I make changes from an editor started in the workstation terminal and "make install" in the target.  Then run ume-xephyr-start 01:18
bspencerit allows me to make changes quickly and build/see them in the real environment01:18
kwwiibspencer: my biggest problem is that my laptop has a smaller resolution than the damn mobile device :p01:18
kwwiiso I have to do all work on the samsung01:19
kwwiiwhich really sucks01:19
bspencerman, that is a problem!01:19
kwwiibut image-creator works now01:19
kwwiijust dd'd a copy of the image to the usb stick01:19
kwwiilet me install it and check that a terminal works01:19
bspencerif not, you can Ctrl+Alt+F101:19
kwwiithat is what I get for wanting a tiny laptop01:20
bspencermjg59 tried this yesterday and complained about a broken terminal01:20
kwwiiyepp, that was the same problem that I had01:21
kwwiiyou click on the terminal icon and it does nothing other than showing the spinner01:21
kwwiiwell, it is installing now01:22
kwwiitime for sleep (1:22am here)01:22
kwwiiI get the feeling that tomorrow is going to be a long day01:22
bspencerok.  see you on the other side01:22
bspencer my long day already started01:22
kwwiibtw. who said that the deadline is tomorrow?01:22

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