[12:52] <jojo4u> ... well the release candidate is on cdimage/release.ubuntu now. but no reference on the main page or devel-announce or the wiki. is this intentional? just wondering. gratulations btw, my first test was very positive, no bugs to report ;)
[12:54] <TheMuso_> jojo4u: It was announced on ubuntu-announce
[12:54] <slangasek> also, what "main page" are you referring to?
[12:55] <jojo4u> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/gutsybeta
[12:56] <slangasek> that's hardly a main page, that's a page specific to the beta. :)
[12:56] <jojo4u> http://www.ubuntu.com/ -> the countdown links to it
[12:56] <slangasek> ah, so it does
[12:57] <mathiaz> slangasek: it links to beta. Is there a place on ubuntu.com for rc ?
[12:57] <slangasek> mathiaz: http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/710rc, referenced from the announce mail
[12:58] <mathiaz> slangasek: may be the countdown link should point to http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/710rc ?
[12:58] <slangasek> um, quite
[12:58] <slangasek> I just didn't know that link was there until it was pointed out
[12:59] <slangasek> I've pinged the webmaster
[01:01] <jojo4u> thnx, just spottet the "latest news". there are many ways to rome I guess
[02:36] <asac> doko_: please give me more details :)
[02:58] <tonyyarusso> I just wanted to offer a thought for consideration after installing the Gutsy RC.  I was able to enable desktop effects, which was nifty, but there was no way to configure them.
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> Someone in #ubuntu+1 informed me that I needed to install compizconfig-settings-manager.  While I understand not having this installed by default, I would propose including a button on the same display screen with the radio buttons for enabling effects for easily installing it, rather than having to ask on IRC.
[03:00] <tonyyarusso> btw, I installed by upgraded from Feisty, and it was flawless, so that's nice.
[03:05] <tonyyarusso> I would place the button exactly in the spot that the "Preferences" button appears after installing that package.
[06:07] <tonyyarusso> Is there anyone awake who could field a feature request for Gutsy?  (super-easy to implement; would make things a bit easier, relating to desktop effects)
[06:09] <Burgundavia> tonyyarusso: kind of late for that kind of thing
[06:10] <tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: Yes, I know.  But as requested, I installed the RC and am finding bugs ;)
[06:10] <tonyyarusso> Or at least, I'd consider it a bug.
[06:11] <tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: any idea who's in charge of gnome desktop effects related stuff?
[06:11] <Burgundavia> sebastian, I think
[06:12] <tonyyarusso> ok
[06:24] <tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: aww crud.  The thing I wanted to do would require promoting something from universe to main.  Definitely too late for that.
[06:25] <tonyyarusso> I'll add it to my Hardy wishlist I guess.
[06:25] <Burgundavia> yep, that is likely too late for that
[06:25] <tonyyarusso> :(
[06:26] <tonyyarusso> Burgundavia: my complaint is that there is no way to configure stuff other than gconf-editor yet.  compizconfig-settings-manager looks _really_ nice, so I was hoping there would be an easy way to install it with a button next to the dialog for enabling compiz in the first place, but oh well.
[06:27] <Burgundavia> ahh
[06:27] <Burgundavia> yes, that is definitely hardy stuff
[06:27] <ajmitch> there were some proposals of how to do that
[06:27] <RAOF> tonyyarusso: Do you really think that compizconfig-settings-manager looks *nice*? :)
[06:28] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: yeah, it got the job done pretty effectively for me.  Why?
[06:29] <RAOF> tonyyarusso: It just seems like a horrible hodge-podge of settings to me.  You need to crawl around to find anything, it's not obvious where you should find stuff...
[06:29] <tonyyarusso> ajmitch: My thought was to put a button on the screen (in the same position as the "Preferences" one appears after installing ccsm) for adding it, which would jump to the package manager stuff.
[06:29] <RAOF> The settings themselves aren't obvious...
[06:30] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: They're leaps and bounds better than gconf keys, as well as having no settings options whatsoever.
[06:30] <RAOF> I mean, it's a large step up from gconf-editor, sure, but it's not actally very nicj :)
[06:30] <frostburn> the settings manager used to be absolutely horrible, tabs and scrolling eww
[06:30] <frostburn> and scrolling through tabs
[06:31] <tonyyarusso> RAOF: Well, I wouldn't mind if someone wanted to put more UI work into it, but I also wouldn't complain personally as is.
[06:33] <frostburn> tonyyarusso, you sound like a happy volunteer!
[06:34] <tonyyarusso> frostburn: Hehe.  I'd be happy to poke around and give feedback and whatnot, but unfortunately I don't code (yet at least)
[06:34] <tonyyarusso> Starting to read diveintopython though.
[06:36] <Alpha_Cluster> Is there anyone around that would be willing to look into what should be a easy to solve bug in "Screen and Graphics"?
[08:34] <tepsipakki> nice, our ubuntu-mirror (HP 380G5, dapper) crashes under load
[08:54] <dholbach> good morning
[08:54] <mdke> morning dholbach
[08:55] <dholbach> hey mdke
[08:55] <mdke> dholbach: thanks for your comment on my blog; what's actually the difference between ubuntu-dev and ubuntu-motu?
[08:55] <dholbach> mdke: ubuntu-dev is not used any more afaik, motu is
[08:56] <mdke> dholbach: would it be a good idea to make that clear on the ubuntu-dev team page?
[08:56] <mdke> it's not used at all?
[08:56] <dholbach> I don't think it is
[08:57] <mdke> it should be retired then I guess
[08:59] <dholbach> yeah, although it isn't exactly easy to retire a team in LP
[08:59] <dholbach> at least a note would be good
[08:59] <LaserJock> ubuntu-dev is used
[08:59] <dholbach> for what?
[08:59] <LaserJock> it's just not used for people
[08:59] <LaserJock> ~ubuntu-dev = all Ubuntu developers
[09:00] <dholbach> oh ok
[09:00] <LaserJock> it's ~motu + ~ubuntu-core-dev
[09:00] <mdke> LaserJock: in that case, it should be an umbrella team containing only ~motu and ~core-dev, rather than including individuals...
[09:00] <LaserJock> mdke: that's what it is
[09:00] <mdke> no, it has loads of individuals as direct members too
[09:00] <\sh> good morning
[09:00] <LaserJock> but Mark said that to transition we'd let the existing people expire out
[09:01] <LaserJock> rather than explicitly deactivating them
[09:01] <LaserJock> of course it's times like this that makes that confusing ;-)
[09:01] <mdke> expiring out will take until like 2009!
[09:01] <LaserJock> something like that yeah
[09:02] <LaserJock> 2 years from the last person
[09:02] <mdke> is it actually used by soyuz?
[09:02] <LaserJock> not by soyuz
[09:02] <LaserJock> it's just helpful when we're dealing with Ubuntu developers as a whole
[09:03] <LaserJock> like if people want to have a bzr branch that everybody can work on
[09:03] <mdke> right. removing the individuals sounds sensible to me
[09:04] <LaserJock> probably, I guess we weren't thinking it'd cause problems when the decision was made
[09:05] <LaserJock> I don't know, talk to the boss ;-)
[09:06] <LaserJock> I'm pretty sure everybody's been moved around so that ~motu == MOTU
[09:09] <\sh> ha...I just found my birthday present...http://scr3.golem.de/?d=0710/Sharp_KarminTV&a=55334&s=2
[09:10] <mdke> dholbach: anyway, I've updated the text, thanks :)
[09:10] <mdke> LaserJock: thanks for the explanation
[09:14] <dholbach> mdke: thanks
[09:28] <dholbach> doko_: can you take a look at bug 151677?
[09:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151677 in bash "Support purge in apt-get auto completion" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151677
[09:29] <dholbach> soren: I subscribed you to bug 151650
[09:29] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151650 in dovecot "dovecot is not restarted when remove dovecot-pop3d or dovecot-imapd" [Medium,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151650
[09:30] <dholbach> slangasek, bryce: do you know if bug 148231 was the xresprobe upload that got accepted yesterday?
[09:30] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 148231 in xresprobe "[gutsy]  bad modes in xorg.conf" [High,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148231
[09:32] <dholbach> calc: bug 135086?
[09:32] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 135086 in unzip "zipgrep: exit code always 0" [Unknown,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/135086
[09:34] <mdke> dholbach: I'd quite like to do another ubuntu-docs upload, who do I need to talk to about requesting that?
[09:35] <doko> dholbach: keep cool, just released RC ... ;p
[09:36] <dholbach> mdke: slangasek, pitti, Riddell, hobbsee, Mithrandir, cjwatson
[09:36] <dholbach> doko: I *am* cool ;-)
[09:36] <dholbach> hiya sabdfl
[09:36] <sabdfl> howdy folks, dholbach
[09:37] <dholbach> heya seb128
[09:37] <seb128> hey dholbach
[09:38] <mdke> hello Hobbsee
[09:38] <Hobbsee> hiya mdke, StevenK, dholbach, seb128 and sabdfl
[09:39] <mdke> Hobbsee: I'd quite like to upload a new version of ubuntu-docs to fix a broken link on one of the help pages, bug 144796, it's a pretty straightforward text-only change to the package; is that going to be doable?
[09:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 144796 in ubuntu-docs ""Glossary of Windows terms" link doesn't work" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144796
[09:39] <seb128> hey Hobbsee
[09:39] <mdke> Hobbsee: if it sounds possible, I'll put up a debdiff
[09:40] <sabdfl> howdy Hobbsee
[09:41] <Hobbsee> erk, there's a fire!  so much red!
[09:41] <Hobbsee> mdke: looking
[09:41] <mdke> thanks
[09:42] <Hobbsee> mdke: should be fine, but you'll have to find someone else to do the actual accepting.  sabdfl may be able to shove it thru once you've uploaded it.
[09:43] <Hobbsee> mdke: or various other people that i've learned are useful for this :)
[09:43] <mdke> Hobbsee: no rush from my end, no need to bother him. I'll need someone to do the uploading too :)
[09:44] <Hobbsee> mdke: ah, ok, throw up a debdiff, and i can upload it from here
[09:44] <Hobbsee> ah, then pitti can accept it
[09:44] <Hobbsee> morning pitti!
[09:44] <StevenK> Morning pitti
[09:44] <Hobbsee> assuming my internet doenst go bung, of coruse.
[09:44] <LaserJock> pitti pitti he's our man, if he can't do it slangasek can!
[09:44] <pitti> Good morning
[09:45] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: pitti can always do it.
[09:45] <pitti> hey LaserJock
[09:45] <pitti> wow, what a warm welcome
[09:45] <Hobbsee> pitti: :)
[09:46] <LaserJock> that reminds me, I was going to write a blog post about pitti
[09:46] <Hobbsee> as long as you dont write a blog post about me :P
[09:46] <pitti> LaserJock: eww, don't blame me so publicly :)
[09:46] <Hobbsee> but, if you do, be sure to include a decent name that i can string into my alias.
[09:46] <LaserJock> heh
[09:46] <pitti> LaserJock: http://dailyrevolution.net/?p=779 BTW :)
[09:46] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: you still owe me ;-)
[09:46] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: oh do i now?
[09:47] <StevenK> pitti: Got a sec to glance at a debdiff for virtualbox-ose-modules?
[09:47] <pitti> Hobbsee: so, what shall I accept?
[09:47] <pitti> StevenK: sure
[09:47] <Hobbsee> pitti: the ubuntu-docs upload, after it actually gets uploaded.
[09:47] <Hobbsee> pitti: tbh, i'm surprise you let me accept stuff at all :)
[09:48] <StevenK> pitti: http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9945255/virtualbox-ose-modules_3.dsc.diff
[09:48] <StevenK> pitti: I didn't write the debdiff, but I want a second opinion
[09:48] <LaserJock> pitti: haha, that's great
[09:49] <Hobbsee> pitti: haha, nice
[09:49] <Hobbsee> guten morgen mvo!
[09:49] <pitti> hey mvo
[09:50] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: i can just keep ignoring the request.
[09:50] <LaserJock> you can run ... but you can't hide from ... LaserMan!!!!
[09:50] <mvo> hey Hobbsee pitti!
[09:50] <StevenK> Bah, Canonical isn't based in Montreal
[09:51] <pitti> StevenK: eww, doesn't that mean that the modules will silently break on upgrades, instead of being made obvious with a package conflict?
[09:51] <StevenK> pitti: Yes, that's my thought too
[09:51] <pitti> StevenK: ah, you still install them under /lib/modules/<version>, so they won't break
[09:51] <StevenK> pitti: Makes it harder to see at a glance "Oh, it's broken due to ABI bump"
[09:51] <pitti> but still, there's a reason we do it for the main kernel and lum
[09:52] <pitti> StevenK: frankly, I'd rather discuss that with the kernel team, but this smells at least inconsistent, if not even bad
[09:52] <pitti> StevenK: well, depmod & friends are fine of course
[09:52] <StevenK> pitti: To my mind, the kernel team have signed off on the current approach
[09:52] <dholbach> hi pitti
[09:53] <StevenK> pitti: And you've voiced concerns as well, so my way stays and Daniel's debdiff gets left out.
[09:53] <pitti> StevenK: when we reduce it to the postinsts, it looks good
[09:53] <ajmitch> hi :)
[09:53] <slangasek> dholbach: yes, 148231 is the xresprobe bug that was fixed
[09:54] <StevenK> pitti: I have postinsts already - it calls depmod -A
[09:54] <dholbach> slangasek: I'll mark fix released
[09:55] <StevenK> pitti: I'm happy to show you a debdiff between 2 and 3 if you want to see it.
[09:56] <pitti> StevenK: ah, good
[09:57] <StevenK> Well, 2 doesn't have postinsts, but 3 will
[09:59] <StevenK> Actually, I'm curious if debian/postinst will work for all binary packages.
[10:00] <slangasek> dholbach: you might want to mark it as a duplicate of the other bug?
[10:01] <dholbach> slangasek: which? can you do that? I just wanted to get it off the sponsoring list as it doesn't need sponsoring any more
[10:05] <sabdfl> Hobbsee: now would not be a good time for me to be shoving anything through ;-)
[10:05] <sabdfl> best to ask slangasek or other RC-specialists
[10:05] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: depends if you have a member of the release team's permission, no?
[10:06] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: as in, the story is slightly different if a release team member is asking you to do the manual work in accepting an upload, no?
[10:06] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: you ever heard of advisor knobs?
[10:07] <LaserJock> *hear
[10:07] <sabdfl> i'd rather not be trying something i've never done before, 6 days before a release ;-)
[10:07] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: advisor knobs?
[10:07] <cjwatson> LaserJock: err, ubuntu-dev *is* used by Soyuz; it's the team permitted to upload to universe+multiverse
[10:07] <Hobbsee> sabdfl: ah, i thought you'd done it before :P
[10:07] <sabdfl> nup
[10:08] <LaserJock> cjwatson: hmm, perhaps yes. I thought that'd changed, but that would mean that core-devs couldn't upload to Universe
[10:08] <cjwatson> I suspect sabdfl would have to get a drescher account first
[10:08] <cjwatson> not that that would be hard by policy, but it would have to happen :)
[10:08] <Hobbsee> oh indeed.
[10:08] <Hobbsee> i'm thinking that the policy could easily be bent for the boss, if required :P
[10:08] <cjwatson> (actually, hmm, the Soyuz UI would be up to letting an LP admin accept changes now as long as they didn't require overrides ...)
[10:09] <Hobbsee> cjwatson: NEAT!!!
[10:09] <liw> what's this? six days before release? oh dear, I'm going to have to spend the entire weekend if I want to finish my kernel rewrite in Python
[10:09] <pwnguin> whats the point of an RC if you cant fix bugs?
[10:09] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: grad students put "advisor knobs" on the instruments, so that when the advisor comes down to the lab they have something to turn
[10:09] <pwnguin> hah
[10:09] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: ah right, yes.
[10:09] <LaserJock> Hobbsee: of course the knobs don't go to anything ;-)
[10:10] <StevenK> Like a "boss screen" for games
[10:10] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: in sound engineering, we do that by tweaking knobs on an unused channel, or unused aux
[10:10] <Hobbsee> works a charm
[10:10] <Hobbsee> "Yes, i do know what every knob on this desk does"
[10:10] <liw> LaserJock, I've heard DJs have that for people who come complaining about too much/little bass/tremble
[10:10] <Hobbsee> liw: unused channel.  yep.
[10:11] <pwnguin> LaserJock: is the knob for the advisor or the student to turn?
[10:11] <sladen> we could let sabdfl move the position of the progress bar back and forwards---then that's only one step away from turning it into a game of pong
[10:12] <LaserJock> pwnguin: advisor
[10:12] <LaserJock> so they think they're helping without screwing up the students experiment
[10:12] <kagou> pitti, Hi,  i point you a apparmor bug (seems to be) Bug #151190
[10:12] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151190 in cups-pdf "cups-pdf fails for non-standard home directories" [Undecided,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151190
[10:12] <liw> if sabdfl has too much free time, I have a few QA things in mind he could spend it on... :)
[10:13] <slangasek> dholbach: oh... n/m, that's the only bug and it just wasn't closed properly in the changelog I guess.  so yeah, please mark it as fix released
[10:13] <dholbach> slangasek: done
[10:13] <StevenK> Oh come on debhelper, you really want to install debian/postinst in *both* packages...
[10:14] <pitti> kagou: well, that doesn't sound quite like a bug, much more proves that AA works :)
[10:14] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: large amounts of bikeshedding.  duh.
[10:15] <Hobbsee> slangasek: as per our conversations yesterday, and your desired wish not to be impaled, you're going to email u-d/u-m about the impending hard freeze today, i take it?
[10:15] <sladen> well the desktop is /a bit/ dark this time, what colour should it be?
[10:15] <kagou> pitti, you can see like that :)
[10:16] <slangasek> Hobbsee: for values of "today" that include "after I actually make it to my bed and catch a few hours of sleep", yes
[10:16] <cjwatson> mvo: I'm not happy about this ubiquity patch to remove forked implementations of apt progress helper functions at this point in the cycle. Could you please describe exactly what the problems were that weren't fixed in the forks?
[10:16] <Hobbsee> slangasek: yes, of course :)
[10:16] <Hobbsee> slangasek: today being any value of friday, in any timezone, that you choose.
[10:17] <slangasek> heh
[10:17] <mvo> cjwatson: my idea with the patch was that the mythbuntu folks use it, I don't think it should go into our CDs at this point
[10:17] <mvo> cjwatson: that should read "that only they use it"
[10:17] <cjwatson> mvo: ok. but if there's a real problem it's fixing, I'm interested in that too - however the patch is demonstrably buggy in at least one respect, since ubiquity's run() implementation expects updateInterface() to return boolean
[10:18] <Hobbsee> dholbach: do you want the honours?
[10:18] <Hobbsee> oh, you got it
[10:18] <StevenK> Hobbsee: That's a lot of people to stab.
[10:19] <pwnguin> you better hide
[10:19] <Hobbsee> StevenK: indeed.  but they might stay out of my workplace then though
[10:19] <dholbach> Hobbsee: hm?
[10:19] <pwnguin> theres someone with a knife after you!
[10:19] <Hobbsee> dholbach: nutters_who_decide_to_assign_to_ubuntu_dev++
[10:19] <dholbach> ah right
[10:19] <Hobbsee> pwnguin: there are often people after me.  they've not suceeded yet.
[10:20] <pwnguin> excuse me
[10:20] <Hobbsee> although not with knives, i'll admit.  i'm probably nto very good to chop up.
[10:20] <Hobbsee> :)
[10:20] <pwnguin> StevenK: you better hide, someone with a knife is after you!
[10:20] <mvo> cjwatson: ok, give me some minutes to look at it again in detail
[10:24] <mvo> cjwatson, evand: we should try to have a hack session about the python-apt inside ubiquity and what can be done to make it easier for you and to remove the workaround that accumulated over time and are either fixed in python-apt or really need to be fixed there :)
[10:28] <cjwatson> mvo: agreed
[10:47] <seb128> ogra: what happened to the other gnome-power-manager fix you wanted to upload?
[10:53] <asisak> Is it still possible to upload bug fixes to universe and get them into gutsy during the weekend?
[10:54] <asisak> Bug 144175 renders Tilda almost unusable.
[10:54] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 144175 in tilda "tilda stays like a gray window" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/144175
[10:54] <cjwatson> asisak: during the weekend yes, but you should get code review
[10:54] <cjwatson> after the weekend it will get dubious
[10:54] <asisak> What do you mean by code review?
[10:55] <pwnguin> people read the diff
[10:55] <asisak> Okay, but should I ask that here after I am ready? Or how?
[11:59] <gnomefreak> seems that on apt-cache search jigdo-lite brings up 2 packages jigdo-lite and  jigdo but when you go to install it says package not found. brb trying to get a bug on it
[12:00] <pitti> seb128: btw, since my last reinstall (fresh RC), I get the blue Gnome session splash instead of the brown one; this can't be right?
[12:00] <seb128> pitti: blame the artwork guys, I think they dropped the Ubuntu splash
[12:01] <pitti> ENOKWWII
[12:01] <seb128> pitti: since we don't use splash by default on gutsy
[12:01] <fabbione> slomo: ping?
[12:01] <pitti> hm, so why do I get it?
[12:01] <seb128> pitti: that's a new install? no idea
[12:01] <pitti> seb128: with my existing home directory, of course
[12:01] <pitti> seb128: but before the reinstall I had the normal brown splash
[12:01] <seb128> pitti: so that's probably a local gconf config
[12:02] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: partial reverse DNS delegation works with CNAME/PTR's
[12:03] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: there's no need to tell me how DNS works, I know DNS quite well
[12:03] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: you can't delegate reverse DNS for a subnet smaller than /24 without CNAME's
[12:03] <seb128> pitti: gconftool-2 --get /apps/gnome-session/options/show_splash_screen ?
[12:03] <pitti> true
[12:03] <Riddell> pitti: my internet is dodgey today, sorry for the delay
[12:03] <Chipzz> Mithrandir: ah sorry in that case L(
[12:03] <Mithrandir> Chipzz: assuming IPv4 and not assuming very evil hacks, true.
[12:04] <Chipzz> :)
[12:04] <seb128> pitti: likely an user config change
[12:04] <pitti> seb128: thanks, I unset it
[12:04] <seb128> pitti: that's still a bug though, we are breaking existant config by not shipping the image
[12:05] <Riddell> pitti: the only changes in arts are things which older versions had in patches and autoconf randomness
[12:05] <pitti> mdke, dholbach: I have a pending OO.o upload which changes the .desktop file Names to the ones in Feisty (e. g. Base -> Database, Impress -> Presentation); that breaks UI, so what's your opinion about it?
[12:05] <pitti> Riddell: ok, accepting then
[12:05] <seb128> pitti: the splash was in feisty-session-splashes
[12:05] <pitti> seb128: right; I don't remember setting it explicitly
[12:06] <dholbach> pitti: best to mail mdke about it
[12:06] <gnomefreak> mvo: bug 151905 might fit in with you but im not real sure if anyone wants to take a look feel free
[12:06] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151905 in ubuntu "jigdo - archive mirror error - missing 37 files" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151905
[12:06] <dholbach> pitti: he's at work
[12:06] <pitti> ok
[12:06] <dholbach> pitti: I don't know much about it
[12:06] <seb128> pitti: dholbach did that change
[12:06] <seb128>  ubuntu-artwork (38) gutsy; urgency=low
[12:06] <seb128>  .
[12:06] <seb128>    * debian/control: don't depends on feisty-session-splashes, we don't show
[12:06] <seb128>      the splash screen any more.
[12:07] <pitti> ah, it's all dholbach's fault :)
[12:07] <seb128> indeed ;)
[12:07] <pitti> maybe we should revert that; it's only 80 kB
[12:07] <dholbach> on a call right now
[12:07] <pitti> and fix it propely in hardy
[12:08] <seb128> right
[12:15] <pitti> mvo: can you please update the status of 120957? it is verification-done, but has New/Invalid tasks
[12:16] <ogra> seb128, /etc/gdm/gdm.conf has SuspendCommand=/usr/sbin/pmi action sleep (here at least) ... that should be SuspendCommand=/usr/sbin/pmi action suspend (else you end up with two standby entries in the gdm menu apparently )
[12:16] <mvo> pitti: checking
[12:17] <ogra> seb128, gdm fix uploaded btw
[12:17] <pitti> mvo: vmware-kernel-modules is gone from gutsy; do you think I should remove vmware-player, too, since it's uninstallable anyway?
[12:17] <seb128> ogra: "standy"?
[12:17] <ogra> err
[12:17] <ogra> gpm
[12:17] <ogra> seb128, standby
[12:17] <seb128> ogra: right, what do you mean?
[12:17] <seb128> you have 2 suspend menu items?
[12:17] <mvo> pitti: do we sitll have it in the archive? if not, it will get removed in the "remove obsoletes" stage
[12:18] <ogra> seb128, yeah, in the gdm menu
[12:18] <seb128> ogra: weird, the wrong comment should not create an extra item
[12:18] <pitti> mvo: vmware-player source adn binaries are, but they are unisntallable since edgy (since we only had the 2.6.15 modules)
[12:18] <seb128> ogra: the action should just not work
[12:19] <mvo> pitti: we have it so that people can use vmware-player-kernel-modules and build their own?
[12:19] <ogra> seb128, i had a bug report about a missing icon in the menu ... it turns out i have two standby items, one witout icon, it changes if i change to the value "pmi capabilities" returns for me
[12:20] <pitti> mvo: ok *shrug*
[12:20] <ogra> which is hibernate and suspend (not sleep)
[12:20] <pitti> mvo: if we had a source package which would build the kernel modules, that would make sens
[12:20] <pitti> e
[12:20] <seb128> ogra: what happens if you change gdm.conf to have suspend correctly?
[12:20] <ogra> the second item goes away
[12:21] <seb128> weird, I've only one item here, will fix it anyway
[12:21] <ogra> i'll do so accordingly in edubuntu-artwork ...
[12:21] <ogra> who cares for xubuntu nowadays ?
[12:22] <seb128> not sure, the xubuntu team seems not really active at the moment
[12:22] <ogra> yeah, i noticed that during RC testing
[12:22] <mvo> pitti: if we don't have one, then shouldn't vmware-player be removed from the archive?
[12:23] <pitti> mvo: that's what I was asking you about :)
[12:23] <mvo> pitti: I always thought that there is one in the archive :) in this case we should get rid of it I think
[12:24] <mvo> pitti: let me check with fabbio (the new 3rd party master)
[12:24] <pitti> thanks
[12:24] <mvo> pitti: thank YOU (and sorry that I'm a bit slow today)
[12:25] <pitti> mvo: understandable after the RC pressure *hug*; thanks
[12:25] <cjwatson> gnomefreak: your confirmation is hardly a confirmation; you need to install jigdo-file, not jigdo-lite ... but in any case I've duplicated the bug
[12:26] <Chipzz> seb128: btw, I noticed in a recent upgrade that gdm.conf dropped the -br argument to the X server; is that intentional?
[12:26] <seb128> Chipzz: how recent?
[12:26] <cjwatson> gnomefreak: I think you misread jigdo-file as jigdo-lite in the apt-cache search output
[12:26] <Chipzz> lemme check
[12:27] <seb128> Chipzz:
[12:27] <seb128> $ grep "/usr/bin/X " /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
[12:27] <seb128> command=/usr/bin/X -br -audit 0
[12:27] <seb128> command=/usr/bin/X -br -audit 0 -terminate
[12:27] <seb128> command=/usr/bin/X -br -audit 0
[12:28] <Chipzz> seb128: just did dpkg-deb -x of gdm_2.20.0-0ubuntu3_i386.deb
[12:28] <Chipzz> StandardXServer=/usr/bin/X
[12:30] <seb128> Chipzz: do you actually see the grid?
[12:30] <Chipzz> I noticed this when cleaning up *.dpkg-* cruft in /etc
[12:30] <Chipzz> seb128: no
[12:30] <seb128> "[server-Standard] 
[12:30] <seb128> name=Standard server
[12:30] <seb128> command=/usr/bin/X -br -audit 0
[12:30] <seb128> "
[12:30] <seb128> it should use that
[12:30] <Chipzz> uhu
[12:30] <Chipzz> StandardXServer is a fallback
[12:30] <seb128> right
[12:31] <Chipzz> but shouldn't that use -br too?
[12:31] <seb128> no opinion on that, maybe
[12:31] <seb128> I didn't try if adding arguments to the server name works
[12:31] <seb128> doesn't look important enough to be changed now
[12:32] <Chipzz> ok, understandable :)
[12:32] <Chipzz> just wanted to notify you about it ;)
[12:32] <seb128> thanks
[12:35] <iwj> seb128: Would you mind renewing my ubuntu-main-sponsors membership ?
[12:37] <seb128> iwj: I've changed it to not expire now
[12:37] <seb128> not sure why it had an expiration date before
[12:38] <iwj> seb128: Thanks.  Why knows.
[12:38] <iwj> doko: I see dict-en-za has ftbfs in autopkgtest (haven't checked the buildd).
[12:38] <iwj> doko: Did you want me to deal ?
[12:40] <doko> iwj: it's still at "needs building" https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dict-en-za/20070206-2
[12:43] <iwj> doko: Oh, actually, the version numbers are wrong.
[12:43] <iwj> doko: Hmm.  That's unfortunate, really.
[12:43] <iwj> doko: Did you set the bug to Fix Released manually ?
[12:44] <iwj> doko: Ie, autopkgtest filed bug 151897 against 20070206-1 but you uploaded -2.  I assume that autopkgtest must have decided to test it almost immediately the bug was marked Fix Released and found it still had the old version.
[12:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151897 in dict-en-za "autopkgtest gutsy dict-en-za: erroneous package!" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151897
[12:45] <ogra> pitti, did you reject both edubuntu artwork 0.1.0-53 uploads ?
[12:45] <pitti> ogra: no, I accepted one
[12:45] <ogra> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/gutsy/+source/edubuntu-artwork doesnt show it
[12:45] <doko> iwj: closed in the changelog
[12:45] <iwj> doko: Harrmf.
[12:45] <ogra> i'll wait then
[12:45] <pitti> ogra: hm
[12:45] <doko> iwj: sorry if that confuses autopkgtest ;p
[12:46] <iwj> doko: No, that's the right thing to do.  I will file a bug against LP with a task for autopkgtest too for a workaround.
[12:46] <pitti> ogra: ah, it's still in accepted; needs another publisher run
[12:46] <ogra> good
[12:47] <iwj> doko: Can you forward me the Accepted mail for dict-en-za, if you still have it ?
[12:47] <pitti> ogra: at freeze times, we (unfortunately) don't have that "sources goes straight in and builds from accepted" feature :(
[12:47] <ogra> pitti, fine with me, i can ask :)
[12:48] <doko> iwj: done
[12:49] <iwj> doko: Thanks.
[12:49] <ogra> pitti, there is also a g-p-m upload in the unapproved queue
[12:54] <pitti> ogra: how much has this been tested?
[12:54] <pitti> oh, he's not here
[12:54] <pitti> there's not even a bug number in the changelog
[12:59] <norsetto> seb128: re. bug 69800 I can confirm that it is just a matter of replacing the tarball with the upstream tarball. Just built and installed a package with that (details in the bug report).
[12:59] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 69800 in sensors-applet "Please package original icons from source" [Wishlist,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/69800
[01:00] <jojo4u> I have a suggestion about ubuntu.com. the counter on the right still links to beta instead of the rc. slangasek pinged the webmaster 12 hours ago, perhaps he's absent? and on the rc announcment page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GutsyReleaseNotes leads to nowhere (should probably be https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GutsyUpgrades)
[01:05] <cjwatson> jojo4u: the webmaster's in the US, it probably just hit his evening and he isn't up yet
[01:06] <jojo4u> no, problem, main reason was to add the wrong link
[01:06] <cjwatson> jojo4u: good catch on the dead link in the announcement. I've added a redirect to GutsyGibbon/ReleaseNotes.
[01:07] <cjwatson> sigh, man-db 2.5.0 turned out to be buggier than I'd hoped
[01:12] <iwj> Riddell: There seem to be bunches of autopkgtest bugs appearing due to some problem with kdelibs4-dev.  Do you know what this is about ?
[01:13] <iwj> doko: Now this is weird.  Did you attempt to fix ispell-czech ?
[01:14] <doko> iwj: I requested a sync
[01:15] <iwj> And did you set the bug to Fix Released at that time, or what ?
[01:16] <doko> iwj: pitti did after syncing. I used the very same report to notify ubuntu-archive
[01:16] <iwj> "Is this kind of thing going to happen every time we use the improbability drive^W^Wbug system ?"
[01:17] <doko> :-)
[01:17] <iwj> 20040229-4 is the new or old version ?
[01:17] <doko> old
[01:17] <doko> 4.1 is the new
[01:17] <iwj> Grgh.
[01:18] <iwj> I'll leave it off for an hour or two for the publisher to run.
[01:18] <iwj> Or it'll just refile all of these bugs.
[01:18] <iwj> doko: fyi, 151925 is the bug I've filed against LP and autopkgtest about this behaviour.
[01:19] <iwj> bug 151925
[01:19] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151925 in autopkgtest "Bugs set to Fix Released by changelog-closes-bugs before fixed version is published" [Medium,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151925
[01:47] <pitti> iwj: do you think we can do some mobile MIR today? (bug 149275)
[01:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 149275 in tasks "First cut of source packages for -mobile promotions" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/149275
[01:48] <pitti> iwj: I propose we look at the packages, mark the innocent and good ones, and set their tasks to confirmed?
[01:49] <iwj> My http request is important to Launchpad.  Please wait ...
[01:49] <iwj> Cor blimey.
[01:49] <iwj> These aren't proposed to be promoted for gutsy, are they ?
[01:50] <pitti> iwj: I'm not sure
[01:50] <pitti> Mithrandir, StevenK: what's the target for above MIRs?
[01:50] <iwj> If not then is there any reason why it can't wait until after the release ?  Now isn't quite the time for this kind of work.
[01:50] <StevenK> If you want to, or just mark for promotion and do the actual promotion for Hardy
[01:51] <Mithrandir> pitti: it's not urgent, so waiting for hardy is fine
[01:51] <pitti> I just had the impression that it was quite important; do we need any of this for gutsy?
[01:51] <pitti> Mithrandir: ah, ok; thanks
[01:51] <StevenK> pitti: Important-ish, but not worth breaking your back over.
[01:51] <pitti> iwj: so, false alarm then; I just spotted it on my TODO list, which I had to pretty much neglect in the last days
[01:51] <iwj> StevenK: There is a difference between important and urgent.
[01:52] <iwj> StevenK: The question is, does it matter to postpone this work until after the gutsy release ?
[01:52] <StevenK> iwj: Indeed. I did not mention either in the bug.
[01:53] <StevenK> iwj: I filed the bug so that it was some place I wouldn't forget about.
[01:53] <iwj> StevenK: OK, that's the nice answer, thanks :-).  Remind us again after we're done with gutsy.
[01:55] <iwj> doko: I don't think I understand what's happening in bug 151662 but whatever it is it doesn't look good.
[01:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151662 in mbr "autopkgtest gutsy mbr: erroneous package!" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151662
[01:56] <iwj> autopkgtest complained about this before and I thought it was archive skew but it has done the same thing again.
[01:57] <Keybuk> mvo: I had a thought on the evms issue
[01:57] <iwj> AFAICT the problem is some kind of dependency tangle surrounding util-linux and linux32.
[01:57] <bluefoxicy> o.o hi Keybuk
[01:57] <Keybuk> bluefoxicy: hi :-)
[01:57] <Keybuk> mvo: would evms be still removed if they had universe in their repository list?
[01:57] <soren> iwj: WAsn't linux32 superceded by util-linux?
[01:58] <cjwatson> iwj: mbr build-depends on linux32 which is provided by util-linux
[01:58] <cjwatson> iwj: I don't understand why autopkgtest feels it has to remove util-linux and install linux32 instead
[01:58] <iwj> cjwatson: It's using apt's dependency resolver.
[01:58] <cjwatson> but the trivial fix would be to build-dep on util-linux (>= 2.13) | linux32
[01:59] <cjwatson> I'll do that
[01:59] <ubuntu_demon> Hi. I think I have found a Gutsy kernel bug which might be very important (causing data-loss)
[01:59] <iwj> apt-get build-deb mbr seems to DTRT.
[01:59] <iwj> s/deb/dep
[02:00] <cjwatson> iwj: would you rather I left it there as a test case?
[02:00] <iwj> cjwatson: Err, I don't think I understand the situation well enough yet to have an opinion.
[02:00] <cjwatson> I have the fix here
[02:01] <ogra> hmm, r-m doesnt think i'm using my broadcom firmware (which i actually do, installed via r-m)
[02:01] <soren> cjwatson: That's what Debian has done, fwiw.
[02:01] <cjwatson> I didn't notice they'd taken my patch
[02:02] <soren> cjwatson: I don't know about that. I just noticed they have util-linux (>= 2.13) | linux32 :)
[02:02] <cjwatson> they did, I suggested that build-dep as a possibility
[02:03] <soren> Why? util-linux is essential an provides linux32?
[02:03] <cjwatson> out of a vague sense that a virtual build-dep might break something
[02:03] <cjwatson> like autopkgtest ;)
[02:03] <ubuntu_demon> Any kernel devs around I could talk to ? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.22/+bug/151938
[02:03] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151938 in linux-source-2.6.22 "gutsy kernel is causing data-loss.somehow related to SATA (media-error)" [Undecided,New] 
[02:03] <cjwatson> ubuntu_demon: #ubuntu-kernel, but they're mostly on US time so you'll have to wait a bit
[02:04] <soren> cjwatson: Well, you were clearly spot on :)
[02:04] <bddebian> Heya
[02:05] <cjwatson> iwj: all I need to know is whether, *if* it turns out that this is a bug in autopkgtest's build-dependency resolution, changing the package will make it more painful for you to fix it by removing your test case
[02:05] <iwj> mvo: Looks like bug 151662 might be something to do with gdebi.  apt-get build-dep mbr  does something different to what you see gdebi doing there.
[02:05] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151662 in mbr "autopkgtest gutsy mbr: erroneous package!" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151662
[02:05] <ubuntu_demon> cjwatson: Okay thanks. I will return tonight. I think it might be an important bug because it is causing data-loss
[02:05] <Amaranth> ubuntu_demon: Wow you really didn't want the bug to stall in 'Incomplete', that's a lot of info :)
[02:05] <iwj> cjwatson: OIC.  Yes,
[02:05] <iwj> cjwatson: I think I'm coming to the conclusion that it is such a bug and yes please don't remove my test case.
[02:05] <ubuntu_demon> Amaranth: I have the sense that this bug might be important
[02:06] <Amaranth> ubuntu_demon: Do you get those errors in gutsy too or only when mounting the gutsy partition in feisty?
[02:06] <cjwatson> iwj: ok, I've noted that in the bug, thanks
[02:06] <iwj> cjwatson: Ta.
[02:07] <soren> iwj: I'm curious.. How are you calling apt now if not as "apt-get build-dep" ?
[02:07] <ubuntu_demon> Amaranth I'm not sure whether I get those bugs in Gutsy too.
[02:07] <iwj> soren: That doesn't work for autopkgtest because autopkgtest wants to be able to use a .dsc rather than downloading stuff.  So it uses a Python module which is party of gdebi.
[02:08] <mvo> iwj: oh? thanks. let me check
[02:08] <soren> iwj: Oh, I see.
[02:09] <mvo> Keybuk: yes, we force its removal, but if the upgrade fails because of errors in packages the cleanup stage is not run because we can not be sure about the state of the system. but I guess that is wrong in the evms case
[02:09] <iwj> mvo: The actual python scriptlet I use isn't in that transcript but I can tell you what it was if you want.  It's just the standard thing for getting gdebi to do build deps, as you advised me to do.
[02:10] <ubuntu_demon> I'll return tonight on irc to try to talk to kernel developer(s). Bye!
[02:10] <mvo> iwj: I wonder if there is a bug in the parsing of arch specific build-deps in gdebi, let me check that
[02:12] <soren> mvo: It's not an arch specific build-dep that's causing the problems here, though.
[02:14] <soren> mvo: Of course the arch specific build-deps might be confusing it so much that it doesn't get the non-arch-specific ones right anymore. :)
[02:14] <mvo> iwj: does the log actually contain the build-deps that got installed (/me maybe a little bit blind today)
[02:14] <cjwatson> mvo: in your upgrade tests, have you encountered these debconf segfaults that keep cropping up in sporadic bug reports?
[02:15] <cjwatson> they're clearly not debconf's fault (debconf is pure Perl) but I have no idea whose fault they are
[02:15] <iwj> mvo: I can't see it, no.  But you can see the debug output.
[02:15] <iwj> (I don't know why the b-d installation itself isn't shown.)
[02:15] <Riddell> iwj: sorry, missed your comment.  I don't know why kdelibs should break things, do you have an example?
[02:15] <iwj> Riddell: bug 151924 for example.
[02:15] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151924 in kdemultimedia "autopkgtest gutsy kdemultimedia: erroneous package!" [High,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151924
[02:15] <Ixan> anyone tried mounting a micro sd card? getting some strange output from dmesg
[02:16] <mvo> cjwatson: I haven't seen them myself, no. but I was doing less tests than usually because of compiz madness^Wwork. liw did a bunch too, maybe he has seen some?
[02:16] <cjwatson> liw: ^--
[02:17] <cjwatson> I'm wondering if it's something to do with different frontends; do either of you test that?
[02:17] <cjwatson> different debconf frontends that is
[02:17] <mvo> iwj: I just checked on amd64 and it looks like the problem is that one of the build-dep marks util-linux (essential) for removal. that confuses the hell out of pbuilder at least
[02:17] <mvo> iwj: both the regular build-dep script and the gdebi based one
[02:17] <iwj> mvo: The final build-dep is linux32.
[02:17] <cjwatson> mvo: mbr build-deps on linux32; util-linux conflicts/replaces/provides linux32
[02:17] <Riddell> iwj: no idea, kdelibs4-dev is certainly installable since I compile packages against it most days
[02:18] <cjwatson> mvo: it looks like it's insisting on installing the real package rather than realising that the virtual package is already installed
[02:18] <iwj> E: Build-Depends dependency for kdemultimedia cannot be satisfied because no available versions of package kdelibs4-dev can satisfy version requirements
[02:19] <Riddell> iwj: oh, is this new today?
[02:19] <mvo> iwj: yeah, I just checked, gdebi will not want to continue if there is a conflict with a essential package. I can fix that for you. how urgent is this? i.e. should I do that today?
[02:19] <iwj> Riddell: It may be.
[02:19] <iwj> mvo: Err, it's not urgent no.
[02:19] <iwj> mvo: That is I don't think it is.
[02:19] <Riddell> iwj: it's probably the 3.5.8 builds if it is, they all got let through at once and some will need to wait for kdelibs to build
[02:20] <iwj> mvo: But I'm still not sure I understand why it doesn't just use the linux32 provided by util-linux which is already installed.
[02:20] <iwj> Riddell: OIC
[02:20] <iwj> Riddell: OK, just archive skew then.
[02:21] <Riddell> iwj: yes, that one is 3.5.8, so it should sort itself out by the end of the day
[02:22] <mvo> iwj: that is a good question, but the problem seems to affect both apt and gdebi
[02:22] <iwj> mvo: Yes.
[02:28] <Kopfgeldjaeger> hi
[02:34] <liw> cjwatson, I haven't seen debconf segfaults
[02:55] <Kano> hi, did someone test radeon x700 se or intel g33?
[02:55] <Kano> with latest rc...
[02:55] <Kano> x700se has major problems with the ati xserver used, also g33 does not work correctly with compiz enabled
[02:57] <Kano> i definitely had no issues with a lenny backport of the intel driver on etch (+beryl as no compiz fusion would work with etch)
[02:57] <Kano> the latest ati xserver would work too...
[02:58] <Kano> fully ubuntu specific issues
[02:59] <Kano> of course you could blacklist both in your compiz script but...
[02:59] <Kano> thats not the cause of the problem
[03:00] <Kano> hmm your current intel driver even has issues on gdm, so not compiz related at all...
[03:04] <Kano> http://kanotix.com/files/fix/ubuntu/ubuntu-intel-g33.png
[03:04] <Kano> lower part of screen is bad...
[03:05] <Mithrandir> Kano: which kernel and xserver-xorg-video-intel version?
[03:05] <Kano> Mithrandir: ubuntu rc
[03:05] <Mithrandir> Kano: known bug, already fixed.
[03:05] <Kano> with current snapshot?
[03:06] <Mithrandir> fixed in the archive at least.
[03:06] <stgraber> Kano: a new xserver-xorg-video-intel as been uploaded this morning (or was it yesterday ?)
[03:06] <Kano> ok, will try online update...
[03:06] <Mithrandir> stgraber: I approved it last evening, UTC-time
[03:07] <Kano> why do you have got fglrx blacklisted in compiz startscript and do not simply check for aiglx support
[03:07] <stgraber> hi Hobbsee
[03:08] <Keybuk> mvo: BBZZZZTT
[03:09] <mvo> Keybuk: hu?
[03:09] <Kano> Mithrandir: ok, updated intel driver works, what about a new ati driver?
[03:09] <Hobbsee> Kano: for?
[03:09] <Keybuk> mvo: installed feisty, made sure universe was enabled and installed evms
[03:09] <Keybuk> upgraded to gutsy
[03:09] <Keybuk> evms was *not* removed
[03:09] <mvo> *urgh*
[03:09] <Kano> Hobbsee: x700se, even much more major that problem
[03:09] <Hobbsee> bug #?
[03:09] <Mithrandir> Kano: I haven't seen any.
[03:09] <Kano> fully screen error when compiz runs
[03:10] <Kano> but only on ubuntu...
[03:10] <Kano> no problem with sid, when using radeon instead of ati it even runs with pure etch...
[03:11] <Kano> also with amd64 there is no splash screen
[03:11] <Kano> with i386 iso it works
[03:12] <Hobbsee> which bug #?
[03:12] <mvo> Keybuk: checking now. sorry
[03:14] <Kano> Hobbsee: did not check out your images all the time, because i primary use only the kernel from ubuntu
[03:16] <mvo> Keybuk: can you send me the upgrade logs please (/var/log/dist-upgrade/*)?
[03:16] <Kano> btw. the current ntfs-3g is not 1.913 but 1.1004
[03:16] <Kano> http://www.ntfs-3g.org/releases.html
[03:16] <Hobbsee> and we're 6 days from releaes.
[03:16] <cjwatson> Kano: I looked at 1.1004 and decided not to include it
[03:16] <Kano> # fix: unwritten sparse file regions could get corrupted if the end of a write wasn't aligned to cluster boundary. Sparse files are very rarely used, most typically by bittorent clients.
[03:16] <Hobbsee> we're not idiots, you know.
[03:16] <Kano> so you like that error
[03:17] <cjwatson> no, 1.913 had been better tested
[03:17] <Kano> funny
[03:17] <cjwatson> (on Ubuntu)
[03:17] <cjwatson> Kano: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[03:17] <mantiena-baltix> hi all
[03:17] <Kano> when you use bittorrent then you should not use ubuntu ;)
[03:17] <cjwatson> Kano: either be constructive, or leave
[03:18] <cjwatson> our release cycle is well-documented and it is not always possible or sensible to include the latest version of every piece of software
[03:18] <Kano> cjwatson: i have my own repository - therefore i update it the day a new ntfs-3g comes out
[03:18] <Hobbsee> Kano: yes, and we are nto your repository - and thank goodness for that.
[03:18] <cjwatson> we haven't yet been using ntfs-3g long enough to develop the sort of total trust in it required to do that kind of thing
[03:19] <Kano> why not?
[03:19] <cjwatson> why not what?
[03:19] <cjwatson> we haven't yet been using it long enough because that is a fact
[03:19] <Kano> well ntfs-3g is one of the most important drivers
[03:19] <cjwatson> it's not subject to "why"
[03:19] <cjwatson> we don't ship the latest upstream kernel either, since we haven't had time to test it
[03:20] <cjwatson> very few projects issue perfect releases
[03:20] <cjwatson> if ntfs-3g were perfect, it wouldn't be shipping bug-fix releases :-)
[03:20] <cjwatson> that's just a function of being human
[03:21] <Kano> sure, but then add em
[03:21] <cjwatson> no, sorry
[03:21] <cjwatson> we'll upgrade to ntfs-3g 1.1004 in our next release
[03:21] <Kano> the only thing that changes is the libary name
[03:21] <cjwatson> (or whatever's current by then)
[03:21] <Kano> everytime +1
[03:21] <Kano> very huge change
[03:21] <pitti> Kano: this particular fix could very well become an SRU if it is important, but blindly taking the entire release is not appropriate now
[03:23] <mantiena-balt> pitti: you added "OnlyShowIn=GNOME;" into displayconfig-gtk.desktop.in ?
[03:23] <Kano> debian is slow too, they dont have that package yet, maybe the maintainer is too busy with other things
[03:24] <pitti> mantiena-balt: me? no
[03:25] <Kano> not even in mentors, maybe he is on holiday...
[03:25] <Kano> the usual delay is only a few days not >1 week...
[03:27] <mantiena-balt> pitti: so, maybe you can remove "OnlyShowIn=GNOME;" from displayconfig-gtk.desktop.in ? It's a problem because displayconfig-gtk isn't visible in Xubuntu :(
[03:27] <pitti> hm, glatzor is not here
[03:27] <Kano> why is iwlwifi_rc8021_simple loaded when there is a card in the system with p54pci (saidly prism54 is loaded too wrongly)
[03:28] <pitti> mantiena-balt: I guess it was meant to supppress showing in KDE
[03:28] <Kano> and that shows of course errors in dmesg
[03:28] <pitti> mantiena-balt: would "NotShowIn=KDE;" work? <- Riddell
[03:28] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: from sevilla, i'm unconvinced that canonical was hiding information - more that it was just utterly and totally disorganised, and never asked for any help either, so stayed disorganised.
[03:29] <Riddell> pitti: yes, it would
[03:29] <mantiena-balt> pitti: I understand, that this is because of KDE, but all other desktop environmens should have visible displayconfig-gtk
[03:30] <xhaker> hey jono, check our sweet ubuntu table http://www.flickr.com/photos/7661871@N07/1551047647/in/set-72157602384597065/
[03:30] <pitti> mvo: is displayconfig-gtk maintained in bzr? There's no Xs-Vcs header
[03:31] <evand> xhaker: that's awesome!
[03:31] <xhaker> evand: I know!
[03:31] <popey> xhaker: that's great!
[03:32] <xhaker> evand: thanks ;)
[03:32] <pitti> mvo: eww, yes, and I cannot commit to it
[03:33] <xhaker> I'm typing at those tables right now, Ubuntu-pt goodness
[03:33] <xhaker> It's the first ever Forum about open source here at Lisbon
[03:34] <popey> xhaker: i want to ask you a question in prv but you are not identified with services...
[03:35] <pitti> -OnlyShowIn=GNOME;
[03:35] <pitti> +NotShowIn=KDE;
[03:35] <pitti> mantiena-balt, Riddell: ^ ok that?
[03:35] <xhaker> popey, will do.. using web irc
[03:36] <mantiena-balt> mvo, pitti: for me is OK, I don't use KDE :)
[03:36] <Riddell> pitti: looks good
[03:36] <pitti> great
[03:36] <pitti> uploaded
[03:36] <pitti> Riddell: could you please review and accept it from the queue?
[03:36] <Kano> ati card with error is: 1002:5e4f, which would at least boot ubuntu when i blacklist it in compiz startup script (which disabled splash for amd64), no go with compiz, also needed to kill X once to get the menu
[03:36] <StevenK> Hmph. The buildds are being KDE'd
[03:36] <Hobbsee> StevenK: it's a feature.
[03:37] <StevenK> Apparently.
[03:37] <ogra> pitti, did you notice my ping for g-p-m ?
[03:37] <Hobbsee> it's a precursor to openoffice
[03:37] <pitti> ogra: no, I didn't
[03:37] <StevenK> calc was talking about that.
[03:37] <pitti> ogra: I asked a question about it, but didn't notice an answer
[03:37] <StevenK> I just want to see virtualbox-ose-modules actually build.
[03:37] <ogra> ah
[03:37] <mantiena-balt> pitti, mvo: so, I don't need to report the bug about "OnlyShowIn=GNOME;" in displayconfig-gtk.desktop.in ?
[03:37] <ogra> i'm testing here, so i was on and off
[03:37] <ogra> pitti, what was the question
[03:38] <pitti> ogra: it looks quite intrusive; how much has this been tested? also, there's no bug# in the changelog; it should be at times like this
[03:38] <StevenK> pitti: Could I impose on you to bump virtualbox-ose-modules up the buildd queue?
[03:38] <pitti> StevenK: what's your offer?</blackmail nag>
[03:38] <ogra> pitti, because i havent found all bugs yet, there are plenty of brightness and suspend bugs it fixes
[03:39] <StevenK> pitti: I don't kill you in your sleep? :-P
[03:39] <ogra> pitti, it will close a huge number ....
[03:39] <Hobbsee> pitti: you're rooming with him.  do you want sleep at all during UDS?
[03:39] <pitti> eww, I didn't consider that, right
[03:39] <Hobbsee> StevenK: ^5
[03:39] <ogra> pitti, it will be in 2.20.1 anyway
[03:39] <Kano> Hobbsee: against which packages i should report the ati bug? only against the xserver? splash does only work on 32 bit
[03:40] <Hobbsee> popey: dunno.  but you might get killed in your sleep, so be careful
[03:40] <pitti> ogra: hmkay
[03:40] <popey> :)
[03:40] <ogra> pitti, i just think it makes sense to have it now :)
[03:40] <Hobbsee> Kano: i'd guess xserver-xorg-video-ati
[03:40] <ogra> instead of having annoying brightness behavior
[03:40] <Kano> but your splash is not the xserver...
[03:40] <Hobbsee> Kano: then usplash. leave both tasks open, so someone can guess where it is.
[03:41] <Hobbsee> seems that it only happens with the ati driver, no?
[03:41] <pitti> ogra: oh, it fixes that, too? great, I used to killall gnome-power-manager to get rid of that
[03:41] <ogra> pitti, the backend returned uint for a lot of functions ... while the frontend was changed to expect int
[03:41] <pitti> ogra: hm, it doesn't do that for me any more on latest gutsy, but I'll have another look at it
[03:42] <ogra> pitti, matthew fixed that for one brightness function, but not for the rest
[03:42] <mantiena-balt>  pitti, mvo: I must go, please report a bug if you can forgot to removv "OnlyShowIn=GNOME;" in displayconfig-gtk.desktop.in
[03:42] <pitti> does it deal with a lot of very large numbers? surprising
[03:42] <ogra> and upstrea apparently didnt notice before final release
[03:42] <StevenK> Ha. How do you not notice that?
[03:43] <ogra> pitti, no, it doesnt, thats why it is all int after the patch
[03:43] <pitti> ogra: ok, accepted
[03:43] <ogra> which is the right thing
[03:43] <pitti> thanks
[03:43] <ogra> thanks for accepting :)
[03:43] <seb128> gpm accepted?
[03:43] <pitti> seb128: don't tell me it's all wrong! :)
[03:43] <ogra> now why cant i group buglusts by one line in one attachment :P
[03:44] <seb128> pitti: no, actually I wanted this fix as well for gutsy if possible, thanks ;)
[03:44] <pitti> mmm, buglust
[03:45] <StevenK> pitti: Saying that sentence with a New Zealand accent means it makes sense. :-)
[03:45] <xhaker> http://www.formatds.org/ubuntu-pt-1st-free-software-forum-lisbon/
[03:46] <Kano> #151974
[03:46] <Kano> bug 151974
[03:47] <seb128> bug #151974
[03:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151974 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "ATI Technologies Inc RV410 [Radeon X700]  [1002:5e4f]  - no compiz support" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151974
[03:48] <seb128> Kano: what about it?
[03:48] <Kano> just added it
[03:48] <seb128> Kano: and?
[03:48] <seb128> Kano: #ubuntu-devel is not a chan to list all the bugs filed, we have a bot on #ubuntu-bugs for that ;)
[03:49] <seb128> mvo: ^ might be interest by this one
[03:51] <Kano> your server has timeout issues to add a uplash bug, have got no time now
[03:52] <Kano> bye
[04:07] <Hobbsee> LaserJock: you rock  @ http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3520311 btw
[04:09] <mvo> seb128: 151974 you mean?
[04:10] <seb128> mvo: yes
[04:10] <mvo> pitti: I can add you to the team, sec
[04:11] <mvo> pitti: it should have a header now, no?
[04:11] <mvo> pitti: added
[04:11] <pitti> mvo: no
[04:12] <StevenK> pitti: virtualbox-ose-modules -14 built, can you NEW it, and NBS out -13 at your leisure?
[04:14] <pitti> cjwatson: lum-cell NEWed
[04:14] <pitti> StevenK: done
[04:14] <cjwatson> ta
[04:14] <pkern> Could we please get https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/121653 into the release notes?
[04:14] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 121653 in linux-source-2.6.22 "[gutsy]  Suspend to Ram does not work on Z61m" [Wishlist,Confirmed] 
[04:15] <pkern> As in s2r broken with ATI fglrx?
[04:15] <StevenK> pitti: Thank you!
[04:15] <dholbach> MOTU Q&A session in 13 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom
[04:24] <ogra> pkern, yes, known limitation of fglrx
[04:25] <ogra> (it never worked, so not really worth a note)
[04:25] <jdong> ogra: pardon? worked 95% of the time on Feisty and Edgy
[04:25] <pkern> ogra: It worked in feisty and is a regression, kthx
[04:26] <jdong> ogra: this time it's really really broken
[04:26] <ogra> with fglrx ?
[04:26] <pkern> No official comment from a dev so far.
[04:26] <jdong> ogra: absolutely
[04:26] <pkern> ogra: Yes.
[04:26] <ogra> sorry, but thats really news for me as fglrx never sopported suspend afaik
[04:26] <ogra> ati surely does ...
[04:27] <mjg59> pkern: I don't know how more official you want it to be
[04:27] <jdong> with a few acpi-support tweaks (i.e. never POST'ing or vbesave) then it worked for me in feisty
[04:27] <pkern> mjg59: I want a comment on that very bug, tagged it won't fix and mentioned it in the release notes.
[04:27] <jdong> I traveled with that laptop for half a year
[04:27] <mjg59> pkern: It's an issue with a driver we can't support in any real sense.
[04:27] <pkern> mjg59: There are more and more people commenting on this bug.
[04:28] <pkern> mjg59: I know that.  But please state that Ubuntu will not offer SLAB kernels and that this bug will not be fixed for Gutsy.
[04:28] <pkern> mjg59: Currently people are making assumptions on and on.
[04:28] <pkern> mjg59: And are running into the bug when upgrading.
[04:32] <Hobbsee> pkern: you can say that yourself - you're a MOTU
[04:32] <pkern> Hobbsee: That's kernel core stuff.
[04:32] <Hobbsee> pkern: you class as a ubuntu developer
[04:32] <Hobbsee> yeah, but do they care?
[04:32] <pkern> Hobbsee: I already left my comments there.  And I want it documented why a SLAB flavour would be insane, then I'm fine.
[04:33] <mjg59> pkern: "A" SLAB flavour?
[04:33] <mjg59> We'd need one for every existing flavour
[04:34] <Hobbsee> pkern: release noting that would be good.  you might want to email slangasek with the words you want in there for it.
[04:34] <pkern> mjg59: Yeah well, I know. Maybe it would not be necessary for all, though.
[04:34] <mjg59> pkern: And then leave all the -rt people with fglrx complaining that we don't care about them?
[04:34] <pkern> I.e. -generic on amd64, not -{server,rt,xen}.
[04:34] <cjwatson> pkern: I have added it to the release notes.
[04:34] <pkern> cjwatson: Thanks a lot!
[04:35] <mjg59> pkern: So no, we're not doubling the number of kernel flavours to maintain just because fglrx is buggy
[04:35] <pkern> mjg59: It would be at least a workable solution for laptop users, yeah.
[04:35] <mjg59> We've always been clear that restricted drivers cannot be offered with the same level of support as open ones
[04:35] <pkern> Instead of compiling an own kernel for Gutsy and redo that on every Ubuntu kernel update.
[04:36] <Hobbsee> mjg59: but cant you just fix the world, and give everyone ponies?
[04:36] <Hobbsee> really, it seems like that's what htey're asking for in the bug
[04:39] <iwj> My http request is important to Launchpad ...
[04:39] <iwj> ... the database server knows I am waiting ...
[04:39] <ogra> pitti, do we have any blocker bugs about tracker on NFS servers ?
[04:39] <iwj> ... we are sorry but my http request could not be completed at this time.
[04:39] <ogra> pitti, seems sbalneav has some bad issues going on
[04:39] <pitti> not that I know of
[04:39] <ogra> hmm
[04:40] <sbalneav> Hey, any way to set a global exclude for all users for trackerd?  I upgraded one of my servers here to test and trackerd's killing my NFS home server :)
[04:42] <ogra> sbalneav, i think there was a gconf key ...
[04:42] <ogra> but i wonder if there shouldnt be an option i tracker to exclude networked dirs
[04:42] <ogra> *in
[04:43] <sbalneav> probably.  I've got 3 users who dragged the load in the nfs server up above 7
[04:43] <sbalneav> can't imagine what will happen when I convert the other 85 :)
[04:43] <ogra> rm -rf /home/* ;) solves all issues :P
[04:43] <ogra> nothing to index ... no load :)
[04:44] <ogra> honestly i'd remove tracker ...
[04:53] <sbalneav> That may be the solution.
[04:55] <pkern> cjwatson: Thanks for suggesting not to upgrade. That's fine for me.
[05:05] <mvo> Keybuk: the reason that evms got not removed in your case was that you had packages depending on it and the upgrader is trying to be too clever. thanks for catching this, I'm preparing a update now
[05:24] <StevenK> pitti: So, ScottK and I have a question.
[05:24] <StevenK> pitti: Until which point can we reasonably say "Okay, fine" to UVFe's?
[05:24] <ScottK> Ones that have important bug fixes in them.
[05:24] <StevenK> Er, yeah. :-)
[05:25] <Hobbsee> StevenK: archives close on monday.  real, rock solid freeze.
[05:25] <StevenK> Hobbsee: Which is four days before release. No bug fixes after Monday?
[05:26] <Hobbsee> StevenK: correct.
[05:26] <Hobbsee> StevenK: although it'll be monday american, of course
[05:26] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Is there a time on Monday?
[05:26] <r_rehashed> Hi all. i have reported a small bug in gnome-utils. here it is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-utils/+bug/150984
[05:26] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 150984 in gnome-utils "Title of the 'Similar words' frame in gnome-dictionary gets overlapped by the Close Frame and Sort icons, when the frame is re-sized" [Low,Incomplete] 
[05:26] <Hobbsee> ScottK: i didnt see one.
[05:26] <r_rehashed> i would like to fix it myself
[05:26] <persia> Is there a plan to try to clear https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-archive beforehand?
[05:26] <seb128> r_rehashed: hey, first we should agree that's a bug
[05:27] <r_rehashed> can anybody guide me on on how to get the source etc.?
[05:27] <seb128> r_rehashed: I don't really get the point to limit the user possibilities
[05:27] <Hobbsee> ScottK: if you wish to peruse the meeting log, you're welcome
[05:27] <seb128> r_rehashed: if the user want to reduce over the text limit why do you can to forbid him doing so?
[05:27] <r_rehashed> seb128: the overlapping looks ugly. u want to keep it that way?
[05:27] <seb128> r_rehashed: what do you suggest which doesn't limit the action?
[05:28] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Which meeting?
[05:28] <seb128> r_rehashed: between ugly or not possible I prefer ugly
[05:28] <Hobbsee> ScottK: ubuntu community developer meeting, or something.  i dont remember exactly what i'ts called
[05:28] <seb128> r_rehashed: now if you have a way which let the user move the sidebar where he wants without looking ugly feel free to describe it
[05:28] <Hobbsee> was yesterday, logs should be in the usual places
[05:28] <ScottK> Hobbsee: OK.  Thanks.
[05:28] <Hobbsee> ScottK: he's been warned about sending mails out to good places, or being impaled.
[05:29] <r_rehashed> seb128: couldn't we let the user slide the pane fully like in nautilus, yet have the text not get overlapped?
[05:29] <Hobbsee> so, we should see something soonish.
[05:29] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Sounds good.
[05:29] <r_rehashed> seb128: u don't want to stop the user's ability to slide the pane fully to the boredr, right?
[05:29] <seb128> r_rehashed: correct
[05:30] <r_rehashed> seb128: so if we make it like it is nautilus, woudn't it be fine?
[05:30] <r_rehashed> seb128: like it is in*
[05:31] <seb128> r_rehashed: I'm not sure, it masks the close button the nautilus way
[05:31] <seb128> r_rehashed: anyway if you want to experiment, you can add a deb-src source in your apt.list
[05:31] <seb128> r_rehashed: you can use system, administration, software sources for that
[05:31] <seb128> apt-get source gnome-utils
[05:32] <seb128> sudo apt-get build-dep gnome-utils
[05:32] <r_rehashed> seb128: thank you
[05:32] <seb128> sudo apt-get install devscripts
[05:32] <seb128> cd gnome-utils-2.20.0
[05:32] <seb128> debuild
[05:32] <pitti> StevenK: you mean FFs?
[05:32] <r_rehashed> seb128: thanks a lot :)
[05:32] <pitti> StevenK: that's hard to answer in a general fashion
[05:33] <seb128> r_rehashed: no problem
[05:33] <pitti> StevenK: if the new upstream version only fixes a bug in an obvious manner, it's fine
[05:33] <pitti> StevenK: the default answer should be "no" nowadays, though
[05:33] <StevenK> pitti: It is.
[05:34] <StevenK> pitti: The question was more, at which point is it unreasonable to ask you/the release team to allow something in
[05:35] <ScottK> StevenK: Looks like Monday "afternoon" for some TZ's definition of afternoon based on the meeting logs.
[05:35] <pitti> StevenK: for universe and main/not on CD, I'd say Wednesday; for stuff on CD: Sunday
[05:35] <StevenK> pitti: Asking as motu-uvf, but okay, ScottK and I will make sure the other -uvf people know.
[05:35] <r_rehashed> seb128: the bug is still there in 2.20 ? i use gnome 2.18
[05:36] <seb128> r_rehashed: yes
[05:36] <r_rehashed> ok
[05:36] <pitti> yay! a rosetta tarball
[05:36] <StevenK> pitti: Thanks
[05:36] <StevenK> pitti: And -14 is done, so -13 can be killed if not already
[05:37] <pitti> StevenK: if motu-uvf approves, I'm fine with waving it though the queue
[05:37] <ScottK> StevenK: So how about Universe hard freeze Monday with motu-uvf to approve all uploads after that (upstream, revision, anything)?
[05:38] <StevenK> ScottK: Sounds perfect.
[05:38] <ScottK> Then Tue/Wed we can ack stuff if it REALLY needs to get in.
[05:38] <StevenK> ScottK: Update the topic in -motu, or shall I?
[05:38] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Sound good to you ^^^
[05:39] <iwj> Maybe I should set myself a quota of 10 bugs for each test case, and then go on to the next one.
[05:39] <StevenK> iwj: Oh, good catch with that Linda bug.
[05:39] <iwj> StevenK: Well, that's automatic testing for you :-).
[05:40] <soren> pitti: Could you give lib{nss,pam}-ldap a nudge? It's just documentation changes.
[05:40] <iwj> Speaking of which I should turn autopkgtest back on.
[05:41] <ScottK> StevenK: Go for it.
[05:41] <pitti> soren: ok, I'll do that in a bit
[05:41] <soren> pitti: Thanks.
[05:42] <Hobbsee> persia: bug slangasek and such for them.  i dont have them.  i havent seen beyond what's in that meeitng.
[05:44] <persia> Hobbsee: My request is for S{cott,teven}K regarding their updates to the MOTU header.  Not for the real archive time.
[05:49] <Alpha_Cluster> Hobbsee: I have a small but rather annoying but in Gutsy that has been getting ignored tonyyarusso told me to talk to you do you have a bit to look at it?
[05:49] <sladen> Alpha_Cluster: bug number normally helpful
[05:49] <Hobbsee> Alpha_Cluster: possibly, but a bug # would be really useful
[05:50] <Alpha_Cluster> its bug #139800
[05:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 139800 in ubuntu "Screen and Graphics sets resolution wrong" [Undecided,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/139800
[05:50] <sladen> useful!  must remember that word :)
[05:50] <Alpha_Cluster> sorry i have a tendency to forget importent hyperlinks in messages
[05:55] <sladen> Alpha_Cluster: responded on the bug report asking for some information
[05:56] <Alpha_Cluster> responded :)
[05:56] <Alpha_Cluster> btw A
[05:57] <sladen> Alpha_Cluster: and it scrolls when your mouse goes near the edge?
[05:57] <Alpha_Cluster> yep
[05:58] <Chipzz> sladen: mjg59 has a partial fix for that
[05:58] <Chipzz> sladen: at least for gdm
[05:58] <Alpha_Cluster> I would like to point out again that the virtual command being put into the xorg.conf is not being formated the same as the rest of hte file is that supposed to be that way?
[06:00] <Chipzz> sladen: mantiena-baltix has been complaining practically non-stop for the past 2 days about it now :P
[06:01] <Chipzz> Alpha_Cluster: the bug is known, a fix exists for gdm, but the desktop is not going to be fixed for gutsy iirc
[06:01] <Chipzz> (gdm is, possibly)
[06:01] <sladen> Chipzz: is there an existing bug number to dup it against
[06:01] <Chipzz> not sure
[06:01] <Chipzz> mjg59: ping?
[06:02] <Alpha_Cluster> Chipzz: that is dissapointing to hear because i have had this happen a few times and have people who i have helped install that literally are not guna install gutsy do to this bug.
[06:02] <Chipzz> sladen: I'll ask mjg59
[06:02] <sladen> oops, 87 open for displayconfig-gtk
[06:02] <mvo> sladen: and a lot duplicates
[06:02] <mvo> sladen: that is of the 87 a bunch are duplicate or bug in the guidance-backend
[06:02] <mvo> it needs cleanup
[06:03] <Chipzz> imho there is a fix, which is putting the highest resolution first in the list of resolutions, but I doubt that's correct
[06:04] <mjg59> There is a fix, which is getting rid of non-randr1.2 drivers
[06:04] <Alpha_Cluster> couldnt you just not use virtual?
[06:04] <mjg59> Alpha_Cluster: Upgrade gdm
[06:05] <Chipzz> the gist of the problem (as I understand it) is that X will not allow resolutions higher than the highest resolution specified in the list of resolutions for a particular bit-depth
[06:05] <Chipzz> but
[06:05] <Alpha_Cluster> the problem is not affecting me in gdm its the problem that its happening outside of gdm whne im in gnome itself
[06:05] <Chipzz> the resolution the user chooses may be lower than the highest resolution possible
[06:06] <Chipzz> but if we restrict the set of resolutions to the resolution specified, you can't get a higher resolution without restarting X
[06:06] <Chipzz> so specifying the highest resolution possible is correct
[06:07] <mjg59> Alpha_Cluster: Upgrade gdm
[06:07] <Alpha_Cluster> um ok ill try
[06:07] <Chipzz> problem is when drivers do not implement xrandr correctly, and scroll when switching to a lower res
[06:07] <mjg59> Chipzz: No, they implement it correctly
[06:07] <Alpha_Cluster> im diong a fresh install from rc right now
[06:07] <Chipzz> mjg59: does that sum it up correctly?
[06:07] <mjg59> They just implement an older version
[06:07] <mjg59> Alpha_Cluster: It's not in rc
[06:08] <Alpha_Cluster> ill upgrade after i install
[06:08] <mjg59> Ok
[06:08] <Alpha_Cluster> my current devel version is horriblely out of date
[06:08] <Chipzz> mjg59: but apart from my last statement I'm correct, right?
[06:08] <mjg59> Chipzz: Not really
[06:08] <ogra> Chipzz, well, there are cases where you need virtual scrolling
[06:08] <Chipzz> ugh :)
[06:09] <mjg59> ogra: No there aren't. At least, there shouldn't be - it's impossible with any of the newer drivers.
[06:09] <ogra> mjg59, i noticed ... that somewhat forces e to i810 on the classmate :(
[06:09] <ogra> s/e/me/
[06:10] <ogra> mjg59, still there are such cases
[06:10] <mjg59> ogra: Eh? No, scrolling isn't the right solution there.
[06:10] <ogra> mjg59, dont tell that to me
[06:10] <mjg59> If there's an issue with our applications not being able to work at that screen resolution, then we need to fix the applications
[06:10] <ogra> scrolling is what they want
[06:11] <ogra> (optionally)
[06:11] <mjg59> Intel? Well, they can't have it.
[06:11] <ogra> they can with all other distros
[06:11] <mjg59> It's their employees who developed this
[06:11] <ogra> and its a main demand
[06:11] <mjg59> They won't be able to in the near future
[06:12] <ogra> they will, they have access to the source :)
[06:13] <mjg59> Well, no.
[06:13] <ogra> you mean they cant patch it ?
[06:13] <ogra> :)
[06:14] <mjg59> I mean the only people in Intel that could alter this behaviour are the people who implemented this behaviour in the first place
[06:14] <mjg59> randr1.2 simply doesn't have the ability to implement this functionality
[06:14] <ogra> i agree that the apps should be able to handle 800x480 ... but reality is that 90% of our apps dont
[06:14] <mjg59> Given the screen size, it would make more sense to run UME on it
[06:15] <ogra> probably
[06:15] <mjg59> But we probably won't be shipping i810 in hardy
[06:15] <mjg59> So there's going to have to be some other solution
[06:15] <ogra> well, hardy is another release :) currently i'm looking into gutsy
[06:15] <ogra> which will only be a demo
[06:16] <ogra> so all options are still open
[06:16] <ogra> (for hardy)
[06:16] <ogra> UME would make sense but is missing educational app integration atm
[06:24] <ogra> why cant i edit gnome-power-m,anager bugs anymore
[06:24] <ogra> grmpf
[06:24] <ogra> "You are not the bug assignee nor the maintainer of gnome-power-manager (Ubuntu), and therefore cannot edit this bug's status."
[06:25] <ogra> GRR
[06:25] <Hobbsee> ogra: try logging in
[06:25] <ogra> uuuh
[06:25] <Hobbsee> ogra: LP probably ate the cookie.
[06:25] <ogra> whats that
[06:26] <Hobbsee> pwsafe -up launchpad.....
[06:28] <iwj> cjwatson: /var/log/installer/syslog added to bug 152012 fyi
[06:28] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 152012 in ubiquity "ubiquity messes with sound volume" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/152012
[06:42] <mathiaz> is aptitude full-upgrade a supported method to upgrade from feisty ?
[06:43] <ogra> mathiaz, i dont think so
[06:44] <mathiaz> ogra: ok. Thanks. That's what I thought.
[06:45] <ogra> i dont think we support any upgrade ethod beyond u-m officially anymore
[06:45] <mvo> pitti: I have a final update-manager upload for review, all nice and safe
[06:45] <mathiaz> ogra: I guess that apt-get dist-upgrade is not supported either.
[06:45] <ogra> right
[06:45] <mvo> mathiaz: only if people read the release notes carefully and follow it, but generally we prefer people to use our upgrader
[06:45] <pochu> Could anyone please upload liferea for me? It's been approved by slangasek.
[06:45] <pochu> slomo, calc ^ ?
[06:46] <ogra> http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading
[06:46] <pochu> err, link: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/liferea_1.4.4-0ubuntu3.dsc
[06:46] <ogra> Manual command-line upgrade (not recommended)
[06:46] <ogra> Please note - this method is less reliable. If you use this method, you MUST be prepared to fix problems manually, such as packages being unexpectedly removed, apt crashing unexpectedly, etc. Using Update Manager (see above) is likely to be much less problematic.
[06:46] <ogra> (it doesnt really say "we dont support it")
[06:47] <mathiaz> ogra: hum...
[06:47] <ogra> (it should though :) )
[06:47] <ogra> imho
[06:48] <ogra> we sell it as "not recomended"
[06:48] <mathiaz> I've got a bug report (bug 148586) about an aptitude full-upgrade that install l-u-m-386 instead l-u-m-server.
[06:48] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 148586 in apparmor "Depends on linux-ubuntu-modules-386" [Medium,Incomplete]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148586
[06:48] <ogra> but not as "not supported"
[06:49] <mathiaz> ogra: in the sense "it's not tested, but it may work for you..."
[06:49] <ogra> right, if you know how to solve smaller probs
[06:50] <ogra> mathiaz, i bet he hasnt got the linux-server package installed (only -image-server)
[06:50] <mathiaz> ogra: hum... may be
[06:50] <ogra> even though i dont understand how he gets the -386 one
[06:52] <mathiaz> ogra: well... I'm not sure what really happened as the reported mentionned he needed 3 rounds of upgrades..
[06:52] <ogra> yeah
[06:53] <mathiaz> where are the logs for an aptitude full-upgrade ?
[06:54] <Keybuk> heh, Epiphany's history dialog lets you search your history for phrases and mass-delete the results ...
[06:54] <Keybuk> now there's somebody who understands their use case
[06:54] <Keybuk> :p
[06:54] <ogra> at least not while knowing it (i think d-i uses it dsomewhere)
[06:54] <pitti> mvo: ok; please get it uploaded, we'll review it in the queue
[06:55] <pitti> Keybuk: phreaks...
[06:57] <mvo> pitti: thanks
[06:57] <sbalneav> Hmmm, slight regression gnome file-save dialogue
[06:57] <ogra> mathiaz, i guess what hapened is: he has the linux-image-server package (but not linux-server so no dep on *any* l-u-m) ... the upgrae pulled in apparmor and the first package that fulfilled apparmor-modules was l-u-m-386
[06:57] <Keybuk> sbalneav: ?
[06:57] <sbalneav> If you do a "save-as", and tha name of the file's filled in...
[06:58] <mathiaz> ogra: right. That makes sense.
[06:58] <ogra> mathiaz, check what heppens if he installs linux-server
[06:58] <sbalneav> and you click on one of the file locations to change the directory where you're saving...
[06:58] <sbalneav> it erases the filename.
[06:58] <mathiaz> ogra: I'll try to to an aptitude full-upgrade to find where the logs are and reproduce his problem.
[07:05] <mvo> pitti: it should be in the queue now (the latest upload is it)
[07:06] <slangasek> ArneGoetje: this ttf-dejavu upload seems to include changes to combining forms for a number of non-standard codepoints in DejaVuCondensedSansBold, in addition to the ligature changes; is this intended?
[07:08] <pitti> mvo: ok; please ask slangasek for further processing, I'm off
[07:10] <mathiaz> soren: I've uploaded the dovecot package at http://people.ubuntu.com/~mathiaz/packages/.
[07:12] <slangasek> ArneGoetje: same applies to DejaVuCondensedSans.  Accepted anyway; if it is a side-effect it seems a low-risk one since these aren't standard Unicode codepoints, and the fix is an important one, but perhaps you want to look into why this changed
[07:15] <sbalneav> Keybuk: Where should I file that against?  libgtk2.0-0?
[07:19] <mvo> slangasek: if you have a moment, I would appreciate a review of my latest update-manager upload.
[07:21] <Keybuk> sbalneav: sounds reasonable
[07:22] <mdke> hi Keybuk, thanks for investigating that evms bug so thoroughly, appreciate it
[07:23] <lool> slangasek: Around?
[07:24] <lool> slangasek: Hmm switching to -release
[07:31] <slangasek> mvo: logging.debug is presumably well away from the UI and therefore not affected by string freeze...?
[07:33] <sbalneav> Ah, already seems to be reported Bug #93396
[07:33] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 93396 in gtk "[Feisty]  File save dialog delets filename when changing directory" [Unknown,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/93396
[07:33] <Keybuk> imagine, translatable debug messages
[07:37] <mdke> I don't think strings which are away from the UI are automatically free from string freeze; documentation frequently includes strings outside the UI which appear on command line; translators also assiduously translate commands, messages and so on
[07:38] <mdke> still, debug messages obviously have an incredibly low priority
[07:41] <slangasek> mvo: update-manager accepted
[07:41] <maxb> I've just fallen victim to the default dput config, and accidentally uploaded a personal package to upload.ubuntu.com. Is there somewhere I should send an apology to?
[07:42] <pochu> maxb: it will be automagically rejected.
[07:58] <superm1> slangasek, i'm assuming its going to be too late to request a sync for something that would be NEW from debian that got added recently, correct?
[07:58] <slangasek> superm1: yes
[07:58] <superm1> okay i'll defer it for hardy then, thanks
[07:58] <zul> slangasek: i have another xen-3.1 update for tonight sometime
[07:59] <zul> fyi
[08:00] <slangasek> eew? :)
[08:00] <zul> slangasek: thats a common response :)
[08:15] <Keybuk> mhb: err?
[08:15] <Keybuk> mhb: any particular reason you deleted my comment from your blog post?
[08:17] <Keybuk> or are they in some way moderated, and I can't see them after posting?
[08:23] <song> my emacs23 told me : cannot open  load file: term/x-win please help me...
[08:23] <ion_> Great error message. :-)
[08:24] <song> :'(
[08:24] <song> how can i fix it?
[08:25] <ion_> For starters, please read the topic.
[08:26] <song> i'm sorry ,but i just want some help....please
[08:26] <ScottK> song: Try #ubuntu
[08:26] <zul> or somet emacs related channel but this isnt the right channel
[08:27] <song> ok.....
[09:19] <superm1> slangasek, I had a debdiff for a few bugs on lirc that pitti said that we might be able to slip in post RC.  he wanted my normal sponsor ( keescook ) to look it over first, and then said that after you or him review it, we can see if it can be slipped through.  keescook looked it over, so would you mind taking a glance?
[09:20] <slangasek> superm1: sure, link to the debdiff please?
[09:21] <superm1> slangasek, its attached to bug 147440, http://launchpadlibrarian.net/9863359/lirc-ubuntu7-ubuntu8.debdiff . there is a build log attached there too
[09:21] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 147440 in lirc "cannot make lirc_i2c kernel module" [Wishlist,Triaged]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/147440
[09:23] <mvo> slangasek: thanks! yes, logging.debug() is just internal so that I have a idea what goes wrong
[09:24] <keescook> slangasek: it looks rather large, but most of it is just fixing missing settings for certain remote drivers
[09:25] <pochu> keescook: do you have a moment to upload liferea for me?
[09:25] <keescook> pochu: sure, where can I look at it?
[09:25] <pochu> keescook: http://emilio.pozuelo.org/~deb/liferea_1.4.4-0ubuntu3.dsc Thanks a lot.
[09:26] <slangasek> superm1: so the fix for 147440 is just an autoreconf?
[09:27] <superm1> sladen,  yeah there ended up being a few typos in the Makefile for pvr150
[09:27] <sistpoty> mvo: thanks for your explanation about the package description translation update. where can I file bugs? (just found a very strange german description for etherboot)
[09:27] <slangasek> presumably not typoes, since I don't see any changes there to non-autogenerated files
[09:28] <mvo> sistpoty: could you put it into a pastebin pleae?
[09:28] <sistpoty> mvo: sure, give me sec
[09:28] <superm1> slangasek, well moreover i should have worded that better, the first time around the Makefile was copied from lirc_mceusb2, and then hand sed s/lirc_mceusb2/lirc_pvr150/g 's
[09:28] <mvo> sistpoty: easiest is to fix it directly in rosetta, we plan to make the description part of the package translation instead of the big ddtp translation template that we currently use
[09:29] <mvo> sistpoty: but that depends on changes in launchpad ;)
[09:29] <superm1> slangasek, this time it was properly autoreconfed
[09:29] <sistpoty> hehe
[09:29] <keescook> pochu: you've tested the resulting build of liferea with these changes?
[09:30] <keescook> (the diff is rather large)
[09:30] <sistpoty> mvo: http://pastebin.ubuntu-nl.org/40441/ the german somehow has oversized lines, but very funny is "Urlader".
[09:30] <pochu> keescook: yep
[09:30] <sistpoty> (in the short desc.)
[09:31] <mvo> sistpoty: the funny lines are known, its a bit difficult to fix. my take on this that the application (synaptic, apt-cache) should word-wrap
[09:31] <sistpoty> mvo: right, ok thx
[09:32] <slangasek> superm1: er, what testing has there been of the patch for 148756?  granted the gpio module doesn't currently work, but are you sure this can't cause anything worse than not working?
[09:32] <mvo> sistpoty: "urlader" is perfectly valid, but its very funny. I once read a tannenbaum textbook in german that was fully translated. it took me a while to discover that "uhren" means "timers"
[09:32] <slangasek> superm1: other than that, it looks ok for upload
[09:32] <superm1> slangasek, well on another bug there is a new method of doing things via dev/input that is documented.  i'm going to move it to the wiki pages
[09:32] <mvo> sistpoty: it was *very* strange :) full of "unterbrechungen" and stuff like that
[09:33] <sistpoty> mvo: well, we've got a few "everything must be german profs" at our uni, but I haven't heard urlader yet though ;)
[09:33] <superm1> slangasek, so this is a better solution than the current not working
[09:33] <sistpoty> mvo: hehe
[09:33] <superm1> slangasek, i can't anticipate any troubles worse than the current situation at least.
[09:33] <sistpoty> mvo: or "tor" for port
[09:33] <slangasek> superm1: ok
[09:33] <superm1> thanks slangasek
[09:33] <sistpoty> mvo: as a prof of our uni said
[09:34] <keescook> superm1: I'll upload it shortly.
[09:35] <mvo> sistpoty: haha, that is nice too :)
[09:38] <keescook> slangasek, superm1: lirc uploaded
[09:39] <asac> stgraber: would be cool if you could test hidden network with the package mentioned in bug 50214
[09:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 50214 in network-manager "can't connect to hidden network" [High,In progress]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/50214
[09:42] <keescook> pochu: liferea uploaded (thanks for the fixes!  I've hit the data loss bug myself.)
[09:44] <mathiaz> keescook: could you have a look at my apparmor bzr branch and merge it in ubuntu-core-dev ?
[09:45] <keescook> mathiaz: sure!
[09:45] <keescook> mathiaz: what do you think about the kde abstraction changes?  I figure we could get that in too?
[09:46] <pochu> keescook: and thanks for the upload! :)
[09:46] <mathiaz> keescook: which one ?
[09:46] <superm1> thanks keescook
[09:46] <keescook> mathiaz: someone pointed out that our current kde abstractions use /opt (from the suse profiles)
[09:47] <mathiaz> keescook: yes. I've found it
[09:47] <mathiaz> keescook: bug 148309
[09:47] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 148309 in apparmor "KDE abstraction is Suse-specific, does not work on Ubuntu" [Low,Confirmed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/148309
[09:49] <mathiaz> keescook: the profile removes a lot of lines from upstream.
[09:49] <mathiaz> keescook: should we keep them and add new ones ?
[09:49] <keescook> mathiaz: comparing now...
[09:49] <keescook> (seems also like qt4 should be handled)
[09:50] <mathiaz> keescook: is qt4 already packaged ?
[09:51] <keescook> mathiaz: yeah, qt4-x11
[10:06] <keescook> slangasek, mathiaz: apparmor uploaded.
[10:11] <mathiaz> keescook: thanks ! :)
[10:14] <keescook> mathiaz: you bet, thanks for the reminder.  :)
[10:48] <soren> Could someone clarify the backports policy for me? Can I - as a member of core-dev - upload stuff to -backports without asking anyone's permission?
[10:49] <soren> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BackportRequestProcess
[10:49] <ScottK> JFTR, he has permission from an ubuntu-backporters member (me).
[10:50] <soren> Sure. This was meant as a general question.
[10:50] <ScottK> Understand.
[10:57] <\sh> keescook, time to review some CVE fixes for the last hours of this day? :)
[10:57] <keescook> \sh: you bet, I was just making my way through some bugs
[10:58] <\sh> keescook, ok..I'll send the debdiffs for wzdftpd*(dapper,edgy,feisty) fixing two CVEs...just waiting for my testbuilds
[11:00] <\sh> and if someone is so nice...there is a wzdftpd upload (sponsored by pkern) waiting for letting it through it fixes one remote exploit, too :)
[11:07] <pochu> slangasek: liferea uploaded, FYI :-)
[11:08] <slangasek> pochu: cheers
[11:08] <sistpoty> slangasek: btw.: you really should become a MOTU *cough* ;)
[11:10] <soren> slangasek: Are you even actually an Ubuntu member? :)
[11:10] <soren> If not, that's surely the first step :)
[11:10] <sistpoty> it goes hand in hand, I'd say ;)
[11:11] <sistpoty> (alongside would have been better englisch, I guess)
[11:11] <sistpoty> -s
[11:16] <slangasek> sistpoty: on the todo list, but I sorta have a couple of important deadlines at work right now...
[11:16] <slangasek> soren: yes
[11:16] <sistpoty> slangasek: hehe, sure, but I'm no longer available soon enough to just wave you through though :P
[11:17] <sistpoty> (damn, haven't mention that I take bribes as well *g*)
[11:18] <\sh> keescook, bug #151946 ready to review
[11:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 151946 in wzdftpd "CVE-2007-5300 remote denial of service" [Medium,Fix committed]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/151946
[11:20] <\sh> good night folks
[11:20] <ogra> night \sh
[11:48] <keescook> \sh_away: thanks!  I'll check it out.
[12:01] <unggnu> hi all
[12:04] <unggnu> I think that gnome-power-manager locking settings aren't that well choosen. If you don't want to lock screen on suspend oder hibernate you have to use gconf-editor while there is a great screen saver based locking option. I have uploaded a debdiff under Bug #150777 to fix this. It would be great if this could make it to Gutsy so it is possible to set with one GUI option locking behaviour.
[12:04] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 150777 in gnome-power-manager "in gutsy, screen locks on lid close even when gconf option is turned off" [Undecided,New]  https://launchpad.net/bugs/150777
[12:27] <slangasek> Riddell: I don't understand the changes to the conflicts/replaces lines in the latest kde-guidance upload, this isn't mentioned in the changelog?
[12:27] <slangasek> oh, file moved between packages, I see
[12:27] <slangasek> Riddell: ignore me :)