=== giskard [n=giskard@62-101-126-218.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === johanbr [n=j@blk-137-105-82.eastlink.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-devel === persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === jurgis [n=jurgis@ctv-217-147-33-159.init.lt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Jucato [n=jucato@ubuntu/member/Jucato] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:57] hi, I'm working for a publishing company and we need to have access as early as possible to the final gutsy i386 image, so that we can remaster it and release it in our magazine (about 5000 copies). 18th is the release date, but I'm sure the isos are built a day earlier right? is it possible to get them somehow to avoid the inevitable queues? [12:58] TomaszD: no promises, but we hope to have final images in a few hours [12:58] "few" [12:58] TomaszD: check the dailies tomorrow morning, they *should* be pretty much final [12:58] TomaszD: but as I said, we can never rule out emergency rebuilds for high-profile bugs [12:59] TomaszD: we can make sure you have access to our candidate images, but please don't commit to pressing them until they're publically announced as final [12:59] pitti, alright. I understand. Thanks. [01:00] slangasek, sure I just need something to work on and then send to the office, it'll be pressed on the 19th, but I need time for testing my remastered copy [01:01] it would be downright insane having to do all this in one day [01:01] TomaszD: sure :) [01:01] great! [01:01] TomaszD: well, as pitti mentions, the candidate images are published as dailies, so they'll be available here: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ [01:02] I know that place already, yeah :] [01:02] so I basically need to look here http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ tomorrow right? [01:03] yes [01:03] and what is tomorrow for you, because here's it's already tomorrow (01:06AM) [01:03] *here [01:03] like, in 10hrs would be fine? [01:04] tomorrow for me is different than tomorrow for pitti, but he means the morning of Oct 16 European time, yes :) === mathiaz [n=mathiaz@ubuntu/member/mathiaz] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:04] alright, thanks again, will get the daily live in ten hours then and assume it's final, hope I'm not going to die a painful death because of that ;] [01:04] bbl [01:06] TomaszD: at a minimum, could you check that the md5sum of your downloaded image matches the released image once the release is announced, to make sure we didn't re-roll the image? [01:07] slangasek, I will === pawalls [i=pawalls@nat/google/x-6b9c429a9e66226f] has joined #ubuntu-devel [01:22] doko, ping [01:22] pawalls: just ask [01:23] doko, Actually, this probably belongs in #ubuntu-bugs. Moving there. === pawalls [i=pawalls@nat/google/x-6b9c429a9e66226f] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Leaving"] === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-088-073-106-006.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jwendell [n=wendell@ubuntu/member/wendell] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul_ [n=chuck@mail.edgewater.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@211.94.35.200] has joined #ubuntu-devel === bddebian [n=bdefrees@c-71-224-175-179.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kirkland- [n=nnnnnkir@cpe-66-68-158-84.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dendrobates [n=dendroba@adsl-065-005-186-012.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rnorwood [n=rnorwood@adsl-074-167-242-127.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === kirkland- is now known as kirkland === Dave2 [i=dave@freenode/staff/dave2] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Fixing] === Dave2 [i=dave@freenode/staff/dave2] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-119-204.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rnorwood [n=rnorwood@adsl-074-167-242-127.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:25] tepsipakki: would you be able to condense bug #132716 to a release note item for me? [03:25] Launchpad bug 132716 in xserver-xorg-video-ati "ATI Driver Gets Black Screen on Radeon 7500 Mobile (Regression)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/132716 [03:25] morning slangasek [03:25] tepsipakki: there doesn't seem to be a description in the bug of what the recurrent problem is on the 7500, so someone who knows what that issue is will have to do it [03:25] Hobbsee: morning === stdin [i=stdin@pdpc/supporter/active/stdin] has joined #ubuntu-devel [03:45] slangasek: fwiw, I just got pinged by alex about 30 min ago with a potential fix for that bug. I'm building a git snapshot for testing. [03:50] bryce: it still won't land for final, so I still need a description for release-notes === j_ack [n=j_ack@p508D8498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mdomsch [n=mdomsch@cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === SLaPoet [n=william@user-38lm58r.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === milli [n=milli@ftcl002.digis.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Whoopie_ [n=Whoopie@unaffiliated/whoopie] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mertiki [n=zxz@modemcable023.30-56-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Hobbsee [n=Hobbsee@ubuntu/member/hobbsee] has joined #ubuntu-devel === didymo [n=ashley@CPE-61-9-197-223.static.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === hunger_t [n=tobias@p54A71F44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thully [n=thully@southquad-186-86.reshall.umich.edu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel [04:46] Hi - I lost suspend as of the -13 Ubuntu kernel (bug #151016), and I'm currently looking to get this debugged. Any pointers? [04:46] Launchpad bug 151016 in linux-source-2.6.22 "New in 2.6.22-13: No video after resume from suspend on MacBook" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/151016 [04:46] One thing - I noticed this: [04:46] clockevents: remove the suspend/resume workaround^Wthinko [04:47] in the changelog, and I'm wondering how I may test "un-removing" this patch. This patch was applied to the tree at the same time I started having suspend issues... [04:47] (un-applied) === fnordus [n=dnall@24.84.160.227] has joined #ubuntu-devel === redwoolf [n=benjamin@c-76-17-130-205.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:00] is anyone else having trouble with libglib-2.0 on ubuntu? pkg-config says that it can't find glib-config. [05:07] TomaszD: at the very least, you can grab the latest daily, then rsync it against the final - so you dont need to download hte whole lot again [05:09] Mithrandir: we should do that for all -desktop packages (blacklist them from apport). i've yet to find a useful one. [05:15] my error, not a bug. nevermind! === redwoolf [n=benjamin@c-76-17-130-205.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === j_ack [n=j_ack@p508D8498.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:20] hi - does anyone here know who I should bring kernel regressions to the attention of? Going from -12 to -13 (and-14) killed suspend for me, and my bug on Launchpad has had no response... [05:21] #ubuntu-kernel, probably when tehy're actually awake [05:22] if it was going to -13, why wasnt it raised earlier? it's likely too late for gutsy [05:23] I reported the bug over a week ago and e-mailed several kernel-related contacts [05:23] ok [05:24] and they ignored me (well, one dev told me not to e-mail him) [05:24] i'd assume that you'll have to take that up with the kernel team, as it's their domain. [05:26] yeah, these were contacts off the kernel team page... one person mentioned reverting the one patch that seems suspicious, but I can't even find the old code/diffs to do that.. [05:27] One question - if I applied for/got QA access, would my bugs be looked at quicker? I've had many issues which I've attached extensive information and even patches that have gone unresponded-to for months... [05:27] possibly. quite unlikely [05:27] the problem is that there are so many bugs for the kernel stuff, adn so few looking at them [05:27] it tends to be judged by severity, rather than who reported them [05:28] yes, this is more frustrating because -12 worked fine, and then -13 messed things up [05:28] Hi thully [05:28] there is a dedicated channel, ubuntu-kernel [05:28] OK [05:29] the kernel folk have two problems I know of [05:29] one is sheer volume as Hobbsee [05:29] says [05:29] and the other is hardware-specific bugs, and not having access to the hardware? [05:31] yah [05:31] and also obviously destabilising things [05:31] you don't want to break peter by breaking paul [05:31] erm fix [05:31] anyhow [05:31] I've had things sit for months too [05:31] and I work with the guys [05:32] I find the best way, with kernel bugs, when the fix is known, is to get someones attention in #ubuntu-kernel, and say 'there is a fix, please look, tell me what is missing to be able to apply it' [05:32] I guess i'm curious how I could look at the diffs between kernel revs and try reverting some of the patches. One of the -13 changes related to suspend/resume, and I'd like to try reverting that === RAOF [n=chris@123-243-65-41.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:33] the kernel tree is maintained in git [05:33] there is a wiki page doucmenting where it is and how its maintained [05:33] I know nothing about git - particularly doing anything more than checking out the latest [05:33] you could also just grab the source package [05:33] yeah [05:33] I did, but i only have the latest and not the source from the working version [05:33] that is a problem, its in git because upstream is primarily === calc [n=ccheney@ppp-70-250-226-180.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:34] oh, right, archive churn will make old source disappear when its superceded [05:34] thully: check out kernel.ubuntu.com [05:35] mathiaz: THANKS! that's exactly what I needed. I figure I'll try reverting suspicious patches one at a time and see what broke it [05:36] thully: np. Good luck in your quest ;) [05:40] I just found the commits I wanted to try reverting.. [05:43] Also, in another issue - does anyone here do gnome-power-manager? There's an annoying bug I reported long ago that I posted a patch for and haven't heard back on... [05:44] thully: ogra: does, and he's german. === calc [n=ccheney@ppp-70-250-226-180.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [05:45] OK - will try tomorrow... === DrPepperKid [n=mirco@unaffiliated/macslow] has joined #ubuntu-devel === holycow [n=start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === sahin_h [n=ezaz@dsl5400DB8B.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LaserJock [n=mantha@ubuntu/member/laserjock] has joined #ubuntu-devel === _human_blip_ [n=mike@b82.cornerstone.edu.au] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman [i=gman@nat/sun/x-1d621b2aee64df1e] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ccharles [n=byte@fedora/byte] has joined #ubuntu-devel === fcestrada [n=fcestrad@189.141.233.30] has joined #ubuntu-devel === muchmusic [n=muchmusi@c-69-181-21-69.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === milli [n=milli@famfrit.acmeps.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === frostburn [n=frostbur@cpe-74-74-219-225.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@211.94.35.200] has joined #ubuntu-devel === XSource [n=XSource@41.201.196.140] has joined #ubuntu-devel [07:19] slangasek: sure! === insobox [n=inso1234@70.116.85.29] has joined #ubuntu-devel === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cathya [n=cathy@unaffiliated/cathyal] has joined #ubuntu-devel === cathya [n=cathy@unaffiliated/cathyal] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie === nixternal [n=nixterna@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.nixternal] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Knightlust [n=dax@122.2.250.157] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Zic [n=Zic@ubuntu/member/zic] has joined #ubuntu-devel === maikmerten [n=chatzill@ls5appsrv05.cs.uni-dortmund.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === freeflying [n=freeflyi@211.94.35.200] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Gman is now known as GmanAFK === liw [n=liw@a91-154-119-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn [n=markus@a89-182-65-111.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogasawara [n=ogasawar@c-67-160-148-53.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:03] Good morning [08:04] morning pitti [08:13] Morning pitti [08:13] morning pitti [08:13] :-_ [08:13] hey lamont [08:13] good morning LaserJock, and Stevenk === StevenK uploads crack, just so pitti can exercise rejecting packages. :-P [08:14] no need to, by now I can drive the queue tool without looking at it :) [08:15] pitti: remind me when the publisher runs [08:15] x:03 or so === Fujitsu [n=fujitsu@ubuntu/member/fujitsu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:16] right, it's back on auto === LaserJock imagines a YouTube video of pitti running Ubuntu blindfolded [08:18] did someone say something? my IRC client beeped [08:18] :-P [08:18] LaserJock: I could be that one running it blindfolded if you want. :p [08:19] pitti: Load orca. [08:19] :p [08:19] TheMuso: I actually tried that; amazing === lamont glares at kdesdk [08:19] needs some getting used to, of course, but I switched off my monitor for a while to try [08:19] the build finished. why doesn't launchpad want to admit it, i wonder [08:19] One of the games we used to threaten to play in the office at my previous job was to take people's screens away and force them to use speakup or emacspeak. [08:19] pitti: Yeah of course. [08:19] StevenK: ROFL. === macd_ [n=d@cl-151.ewr-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:20] pitti: Then theres making it speak as fast as it possibly can. That again takes getting used to. :p [08:21] uh, yes [08:21] pitti: I'd probably struggle if I had to use GNOME/Orca in a different locale. :) like German. [08:22] Espeak would have no problem pronouncing stuff however. [08:22] TheMuso: Deutsch ist kein Problem :) [08:22] TheMuso: I tried espeak with German; it's comprehensible, just sounds funny [08:22] but that's equally true of the English it produces IIRC [08:22] pitti: if you're totally bored, once https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kdesdk/4:3.5.8-0ubuntu1/+build/408426 admits to being done, a manual publisher run to kick kdewebdev in the butt will help it finish sooner... (iz 70 minute avg-pkg-build-tiem) [08:22] pitti: Yeah its getting used to synthesized speech in general. [08:23] gutsy hppa Successfully built (ACCEPTED) [08:23] pitti: so if you're bored, :-) [08:23] lamont: can do, but the current one is still running === TheMuso should work with the espeak developer to get Australian english available. :p === pitti watches jigdo construct a server iso from an old server and alternate in no time and hugs it heartily [08:24] pitti: ah, ok. [08:24] anyway, sync of the mirror finished, heading home. [08:24] lamont: I'll start another one right after that, just for you :) [08:24] some days, sneakernet sucks [08:24] TheMuso: just add 'mate' at the end of every sentence? :-) [08:24] Oh yes, I love jigdo. [08:24] pitti: damn. what's that make it now, 20 beers? [08:25] lamont: not all at once, please [08:25] lol [08:25] Jigdo absolutely rocks for those who are quota deprived. :) [08:25] torkel: lol [08:25] anyway, afk for about 30-40 min, then back online for about 2 min before falling into bed. [08:25] I can build an image in about 3 minutes thanks to my local mirror. [08:25] Now all we need is something similar for live CDs. :p [08:26] Stop bragging already StevenK. [08:26] TheMuso: rsync is not too bad for those [08:26] pitti: If quota weren't a problem, yes. [08:26] s/weren't/wasn't/ [08:26] StevenK: did you ever try rsyncing the dvd .template against the desktop CD for jigdoing a DVD? [08:26] pitti: rsync'ing a live CD still manages to take me about 45 minutes. [08:26] TheMuso: it is for me, too (3 GB/7 days) [08:27] pitti: So it takes you two weeks to download a DVD? [08:27] StevenK: no, it doesn't [08:27] StevenK: simple solution: don't download DVDs :) [08:27] StevenK: well, I downloaded some at debconf, or in the London office [08:27] I have to say, my plan is far better - 24Gb/month, with 12am - 12pm uncounted. [08:28] StevenK: The interndoe plan we stared on was good value, till it was changed. [08:28] s/interndoe/internode/ [08:29] I'm eyeing Exetel's ADSL2+ plans. === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-devel === carlos [n=carlos@canonical/launchpad/carlos] has joined #ubuntu-devel === LaserJock pats his trusty old USA DSL line [08:33] it may not be the fastest, but I can chug away as long as I like [08:33] indeed [08:33] this metered internet stuff is crap [08:34] LaserJock: You mean it's actually unlimited? === Fujitsu is on Optus' old Unlimited plan, 12/24. [08:34] Very well named, obviousl. [08:34] Look at the map of the Internet that turned up on Planet Debian and you'll see why. [08:34] *obviously. [08:35] The US has all the bandwidth, and the rest of the world has a little bit. [08:35] most people in Canada are not de jure unlimited, but de facto are [08:35] stgraber: FYI, ISO tracker staffed, DVDs coming [08:35] StevenK: heh, sure? :-P [08:35] I had a friend who got warned at 56 GB in a single month [08:35] I only have a 6.5MBit here, that's true. === ..[topic/#ubuntu-devel:pitti] : Development of Ubuntu (not support, even with gutsy; not application development on Ubuntu) | #ubuntu for support and general discussion for dapper/edgy/feisty, #ubuntu+1 for gutsy support | #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment | See #ubuntu-bugs for http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingWithBugs | Gutsy release freeze in effect | Please test the Gutsy final CD candiates: https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/ [08:36] pitti: do you have an approx. time of day that you plan to release the final ISO? [08:36] Burgundavia: the ones in the tracker *are* the final ones (hopefully, *crossing fingers*) [08:36] no, I mean send the public announcment [08:37] Burgundavia: oh, no idea; slangasek will do it, but traditionally it's around noon [08:37] noon UTC? [08:37] yeah [08:37] on the 18th? [08:37] Yay, another `omg I just discovered the ISOs in .pool let's tell everybody to get them now!' coming soon. [08:37] oh, there's new ISOs? I was waiting for the tracker's e-mails about them [08:38] stgraber: hm, that didn't work so well; all the flavours just say "ubuntu"; can you please have a look? [08:38] liw: freshly added, you shuold get them, unless there's something else broken [08:39] ah yes, there's the e-mail [08:39] timing is everything === dholbach [n=daniel@i59F753DF.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:39] hi dholbach [08:40] good morning [08:40] hey pitti [08:40] Hi dholbach. [08:40] hey Fujitsu [08:41] LaserJock: can I get a final proof read of my story in the fridge queue? === macd [n=d@cl-151.ewr-01.us.sixxs.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === imbrandon [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@gw.impilinux.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === viviersf [n=cain@gw.impilinux.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-devel === timfrost [n=timfrost@125-238-34-112.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #ubuntu-devel === elkbuntu [n=melissa@ubuntu/member/elkbuntu] has joined #ubuntu-devel [08:58] Burgundavia: yep, one sec [09:01] Burgundavia: Day 2 right? [09:01] LaserJock: nah, it is live already :) [09:01] don';t worry, mdke got it [09:01] pfft [09:02] you can look at it if you want [09:02] top story [09:02] Burgundavia: Why the hate on packagekit? :) [09:02] Burgundavia: It seems to be explicitly designed to replace gnome-app-install and update-manager [09:03] Amaranth: not, it is designed to fit underneath them [09:03] and I don't hate it [09:03] just don't think it is good for hardy [09:03] I meant the GNOME UI they have for it [09:03] I was looking at packagekit yesterday [09:03] The whole idea came out of 'making gnome-app-install work everywhere' [09:03] or rather saw what it was and put on my list of "hmm, that could be interesting" [09:03] well, tbh their UIs suck === MacSlow [n=mirco@unaffiliated/macslow] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:03] g-a-i is much better [09:04] they expose too much of the underlying package crap to the user [09:04] Burgundavia: But not much better and packagekit is only 6 week sold [09:04] but that is something Fedora has always done [09:04] Burgundavia: So imagine what another couple months will do [09:04] sadly, I consider that a spurious argument [09:04] they had all the time to study every updater in existance [09:04] and every pacakge installer [09:04] and they still made the same mistakes [09:05] Well, the main problem is gnome-app-install uses a hack to do what it does [09:05] I don't disagre [09:05] but the UI is better than anything out there [09:05] it snags every .desktop from the entire archive and matches it to a package [09:05] that could be put in packagekit though [09:05] without better package metadata, that problem is not going away [09:05] package kit will not solve that === marcel [n=marcel@wc-50.r-195-35-150.atwork.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel === marcelh [n=marcel@lt3.xs4all.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:07] having packagekit provide package metadata is pretty much the same thing as package information itself === marcel__ [n=marcel@wc-50.r-195-35-150.atwork.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:07] packagekit should understand how to get that out of the distro, but it is the distro who needs how to figure out how to feed that to packagekit [09:09] I'm not understanding your problem with that [09:09] packagekit, if it is to be adopted, needs to be a shim over existing packaging systems [09:10] if it starts replacing bits of the packaging system too early, adoption will fail [09:10] I must confess as to not understanding what problem PK is trying to solve [09:10] one of those bits is package metadata [09:11] Burgundavia: read about the AppArmour layoffs? [09:11] one problem would be to have a third party app be able to say "install java" and it just work on Fedora, Ubuntu, etc. [09:11] highvoltage: yep [09:12] the other is for bigger projects like OO.o or GNOME be able to say "install this optional dep" === onixpro [n=onixpro@89.113.86.193] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:12] you already see this with gnome-games [09:12] try enabling 3d mode in chess and see what happens === onixpro [n=onixpro@89.113.86.193] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [09:12] a 3rd major point is to move the idea of package stuff out of the distro silo [09:15] I suspect that moving stuff out from distros will mean stuff won't be adhering to distro policies, meaning worse integration and interesting bugs during transitions, and longer transitions === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-139-108.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:16] you are conflating the actual packaging with the UI bits that sit above them [09:16] packagekit is designed to solve the latter, autopackage the former [09:16] liw: right. A good example is that the packagekit guys have recently been discussing questions about how easy it should be to add third party repositories which may endanger the system. Ubuntu developers have also been discussing the same thing, if they come to a different conclusion, how will the two be reconciled? [09:16] It's more or less so every distro can do what we do with 'find a package that handles this mimetype' [09:17] and cross-distro consistency with the updater UI and such [09:17] because every distro rewriting the updater is crazy [09:17] iven they all do 98% of the same thing [09:18] and if it gets to the level of gnome-app-install it's also so every distro has the same UI for installing applications [09:18] GUI applications, anyway [09:18] it's more or less everything we already do but with a better design and cross-distro [09:18] means gnome-app-install can actually become a GNOME app [09:25] the problem we have is that packages ask questions, that's not possible with packagekit in any way [09:26] indeed, a serious issue [09:26] the whole EULA thing is a bit messy as well === imbrandon [n=brandon@ubuntu/member/pdpc.active.imbrandon] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:28] Burgundavia, hmm... if PackageKit helps move things out of the "distro silo", how does this not move things out of the control of the distro? === timfrost [n=timfrost@125-238-34-112.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has left #ubuntu-devel [] [09:29] liw: because the packaging itself and all those bits remain with teh distro [09:29] PackageKit is mostly for the end-user facing apps [09:30] ie: the updater and the equiv of gnome-app-install [09:30] both of which could easily be on any LInux system, even a source based oen such as emerge [09:30] dholbach: Is dpkg the only package system that does that? [09:31] Burgundavia, how does the packaging remain with the distro if the packages do not come from the distro? [09:31] Amaranth: rpm doesn't allow it, at least. [09:31] afaik, rpm devs have rejected the whole "rpm needs EULAs" stuff [09:31] liw: no, you misunderstand [09:31] I only have basic understanding of rpm and don't know anything about conary [09:31] dholbach: technical problems can often be solved though; whereas if there is a problem with the model; i.e. policy decisions which should be taken by distros being taken in the upstream project, then that's harder to fix... [09:31] this is a layer on top of the existing packaging system [09:31] Burgundavia, I understand the layering [09:31] liw: This is gnome-app-install [09:32] and update-manager [09:32] I understand all that [09:32] liw: gnome-app-install just tells apt to install stuff (through synaptic) [09:32] liw: it doesn't do any packaging stuff [09:32] pitti: fixed [09:32] packagekit doesn't really how stuff gets installed [09:32] I am discussing specifically the point of "distro silo" and making it common to install packages from outside the distro [09:32] liw: Why would this make it 'common to install packages from outside the distro'? [09:32] most users do that anyway [09:33] liw: Any more than synaptic and gnome-app-install do === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-devel === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:33] stgraber: thanks [09:35] yes, many users do that, and yes, it's possible with existing tools, but it's not a "major point" for them to make it easy for users to install packages from any random sites from the net, which is what I understood from Burgundavia's statement is one of the goals of PackageKit [09:35] liw: umm, not really === mvo [n=egon@p54A674EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [09:35] well, it's been discussed anyway [09:35] the goal is to smooth out installs of packages [09:35] I don't know what the conclusions have been, they might be the same as Ubuntu's and they might not [09:35] a common place to discuss is the server stuff [09:35] such as IBM's db2 [09:36] never going to be packaged for Ubuntu [09:36] but what if it needs a dependency/ [09:36] ? [09:36] stgraber: hm, ubuntu desktop is 16.1, although I added them as 16; alternates are 16.1, but don't show up [09:36] with PK, they could create it so that it could install those deps by writing a single script, and not dozens [09:36] stgraber: I just tried to re-add 16 as desktop, but that doesn't seem to work? [09:37] stgraber: ubuntu alternates added [09:37] pitti: ok, so I just have to change Ubuntu Desktop from 16.1 to 16 ? [09:38] stgraber: right [09:39] Burgundavia: this is basically just LSB modules, again [09:39] Mithrandir, yeah [09:40] Burgundavia: also, DB2 is certified on Ubuntu. I would not be surprised if you could get .debs of it too [09:40] yes, but unlike last time, this one might stick, as it is not parachuted in from above [09:41] Burgundavia: db2 is packaged for dapper... [09:41] Burgundavia: archive.canonical.com ? [09:41] it seems very much so to me. I honestly don't see what problem it's trying to solve which isn't easier solved in other ways. [09:42] which other ways? [09:42] ship anything you need over LSB yourself. [09:42] pitti: looking at the logs, you added the 20071016 Ubuntu desktop at 08:33:32, then the 16.1 at 20071016.1. So it doesn't let you add the Desktop ones again as they already exist on the DB. I'll simply hide the Ubuntu desktop 20071016.1 and show the 20071016 so if we have a 20071016.1 for Ubuntu desktop today we won't have to add them again but simply reactivate them [09:43] stgraber: hm, sorry if I screwed up; thanks for fixing [09:45] LSB is a very static solution [09:45] pitti: just ping me if you have to add a new Ubuntu Desktop set today (with version number 20071016.1) so I simply reactivate the 20071016.1 ones instead of creating them again [09:45] stgraber: I will, thanks (let's hope it's not necessary, though :) [09:45] yes :) === giskard [n=giskard@62-101-126-218.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === dexem [n=dani@224.Red-88-23-204.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === printk [n=jayson@unaffiliated/printk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thedonvaughn [n=jayson@unaffiliated/printk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jsgotangco [n=JSG@58.71.46.210] has joined #ubuntu-devel === chand [n=rsamson@linagoraberri.pck.nerim.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === jono [n=jono@ubuntu/member/jono] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ogra1 [n=ogra@p548ADDB1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === heno [n=henrik@ubuntu/member/heno] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:23] *** Gutsy-final-candidates are up and ready for testing https://iso.qa.stgraber.org/ *** [10:24] ooo [10:30] Riddell, ogra1: are you guys planning separate release announcements for Edubuntu and Kubuntu? [10:31] slangasek, i have to talk to RichEd about that, Riddell usually does his own === cjwatson_ [i=cjwatson@nat/canonical/x-7494375f03b90a18] has joined #ubuntu-devel === mpt [n=mpt@121-72-139-108.dsl.telstraclear.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:34] heno: btw, is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Phased/Two ok for you? not sure how many bugs you want there, and some are a bit obscure, but I just added everything nontrivial === fabiux [n=fabiux@212.45.155.125] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Lure [n=lure@ubuntu/member/lure] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:38] seb128, in #147071 you say the bug has been reported already, but it's not marked as a duplicate in launchpad, and I can't the other report [10:39] pitti: looks good. It will probably take some work to track down people who can test them, but that's fine === jvw [i=jeroen@220pc220.sshunet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:40] *** REQUEST FOR TESTING: Firefox candidate packages for Dapper, Edgy and Feisty are posted at: https://mozilla.qa.stgraber.org/ *** [10:44] bug #147071 [10:44] Launchpad bug 147071 in nautilus "When moving files to trash in Live session, nothing appears in trash" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/147071 === sabdfl [i=sabdfl@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:45] liw: there is ten of bugs about trash applet not working correcly, maybe there is no exact duplicate of this one though === PriceChild [n=pricechi@ubuntu/member/pdpc.supporter.student.PriceChild] has joined #ubuntu-devel [10:45] possibly bug #34247 [10:45] Launchpad bug 34247 in gnome-applets "Trash always empty." [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/34247 [10:46] sorry, bug #42471 [10:46] Launchpad bug 42471 in casper "[Dapper LiveCD Beta2] Deleted items are not visible in Trash" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42471 [10:46] liw: things like bug #32466 bug #72468 bug #12494 [10:46] Launchpad bug 32466 in gnome-applets "External disk trash not shown by trash applet" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32466 [10:46] Launchpad bug 72468 in gnome-applets "Trash looks empty, isn't" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72468 [10:46] Launchpad bug 12494 in gnome-applets "Remote files deleted by DND to the trash applet are not refreshed" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12494 [10:47] seb128, right, so there's lots of duplicates, good; I get it from the live cd, fwiw (the one currently being tested for release on Thursday) [10:47] in the live session, even [10:49] it'll probably be something like inotify not working with unionfs === Keybuk [i=scott@nat/canonical/x-0c155672233700f9] has joined #ubuntu-devel === Watersevenub [n=Watersev@azevedo.astro.up.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel === lloydinho [n=andreas@0x573c0608.boanqu1.broadband.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === giskard [n=giskard@62-101-126-218.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === rohan [n=rohan@unaffiliated/rohan] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:09] what package does kubuntu use to display OSD when i control volume using volume keys on keyboard ? because atm in gutsy the OSD is not working === superm1 [n=superm1@ubuntu/member/superm1] has joined #ubuntu-devel === minghua [n=minghua@ubuntu/member/minghua] has joined #ubuntu-devel === allee [n=ach@allee.mpe.mpg.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:21] rohan: although using gnome, I guess, it's KMilo [11:21] Whoopie: ah i see.. since atm it doesn't seem to be working [11:22] i wonder whether it'd work for a new user though === norsetto [n=Cesare@host42-58-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #ubuntu-devel === shiyee [n=Shiyee@0x50a16837.abnxx4.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #ubuntu-devel === glatzor [n=renate@p57AED7D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel === onixpro [n=onixpro@62.140.244.59] has joined #ubuntu-devel === onixpro [n=onixpro@62.140.244.59] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === Zdra [n=zdra@d83-182-25-63.cust.tele2.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:44] ogra1: currenlty live session testing - move to trash appears to auto-delete the files ... e.g. nothing in trash afterwards. is that a feature for edubuntu? [11:45] asac, it's a bug, happens with the ubuntu live cd as well [11:45] asac, bug #32466 bug #72468 bug #12494 [11:45] Launchpad bug 32466 in gnome-applets "External disk trash not shown by trash applet" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/32466 [11:45] Launchpad bug 72468 in gnome-applets "Trash looks empty, isn't" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/72468 [11:45] Launchpad bug 12494 in gnome-applets "Remote files deleted by DND to the trash applet are not refreshed" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12494 [11:45] asac, see the backlog ;) [11:45] asac, the files are in ~/.Trash, the applet and nautilus just don't show them [11:45] liw: ogra1 thanks === teKnofreak [n=technofr@unaffiliated/teknofreak] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:50] ogra1: which bug should i attach to the test case? [11:50] heh, no idea, seb128 is there a master for the trash bug ? [11:51] why does everybody notice that the trash is not working correclty now? that's the case this warty ;) [11:51] heh [11:52] seb128: maybe it was added to the iso testplan just now? [11:52] ogra1: not really, pick any of the ton of gnome-applets bug about that [11:53] asac: no idea [11:53] asac, ^^^^ [11:53] ok i use bug 12494 then [11:53] Launchpad bug 12494 in gnome-applets "Remote files deleted by DND to the trash applet are not refreshed" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12494 [11:54] seb128: the "move to trash" test was added to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/UbuntuDesktop in the Live session testing part :) === milli [n=milli@famfrit.acmeps.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:54] stgraber: who did that? [11:54] Henrik probably [11:54] stgraber: i filed it now ... so maybe we should remove it temporarily to not trigger dupes :) [11:54] stgraber: can that be reverted? there is no real sense to add things known to be b0rked there === bigon [n=bigon@ubuntu/member/bigon] has joined #ubuntu-devel === persia [n=persia@ubuntu/member/persia] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === rulus [n=roel@d54C1A033.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [11:55] seb128: I'll add a comment next to it so people know that it's not supposed to work [11:55] stgraber: thanks === nags [n=nags@125.16.129.16] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:02] c [12:02] ugh [12:03] asac: Why did you mark Edubuntu's Live Session as failed ? only for the Trash applet thing ? === jsgotangco [n=JSG@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-devel === ivoks [n=ivoks@36-234.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #ubuntu-devel === DrPepperKid [n=mirco@unaffiliated/macslow] has joined #ubuntu-devel === thekorn_ [n=markus@a89-182-65-111.net-htp.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:16] If anyone else used to use kees' greasemonkey script for adding karma and team emblems to lp pages, here's a patch that makes it work again after changes to edge's UI yesterday. http://people.ubuntu.com/~soren/lp_karma_update.diff === teKnofreak [n=technofr@unaffiliated/teknofreak] has left #ubuntu-devel ["Need] === tkamppeter [n=till@bl8-124-170.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:18] pitti, ping [12:18] hi tkamppeter [12:19] about bug 152293, are you sure that you have the 3ubuntu10? [12:19] Launchpad bug 152293 in cups-pdf "cups-pdf 2.4.6-3ubuntu9 doesn't create PDF-queue" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152293 [12:20] tkamppeter: I have whatever is on the current CDs, but that should be 10 [12:20] tkamppeter: I'm currently doing two more test installs (alternate this time); I'll check with those, too [12:22] pitti, so then it seems that the CUPS startup script exits and the daemon still takes an unreasonably long time to start listening. Then the cups-pdf package would need to launch a background process to wait for CUPS in a loop to create the queue, which can happen half an hour later, if needed. === TheMuso [n=luke@ubuntu/member/themuso] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:23] tkamppeter: it would be interesting to compare various installations; if it's a race condition, I might just have been unlucky === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-devel === soren -> lunch [12:23] arguably the cups startup script should wait until it's been started [12:24] pitti, the case that it happens seems to be rare at least, otherwise the problem had been reported earlier. I always got a queue (my network has 2 computers, 5 printers, and ~10 queues). [12:25] tkamppeter: *nod* === milli [n=milli@famfrit.acmeps.com] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:25] tkamppeter: I'm doing several vmware installs in parallel, so it's slow and latent [12:26] liw, years ago I had a similar problem and had reported an upstream bug then, which got actually fixed. Seems that now there are new discrepancies. [12:27] pitti, and I have only native installations ... [12:27] stgraber: i commented on it ... yes, just the trash. [12:27] stgraber: its not marked as serious of course [12:29] pitti, and there are two cases: "force-reload" probably does a "kill -something" on the CUPS daemon and "kill" does not wait for reactions, but "restart" actually kills CUPS and then runs "cupsd", and the command "cupsd" probably really only exits if CUPS really starts to listen. [12:31] ok bad news ... edubuntu install leaves me with a broken X ... ending in a console session :( [12:32] eww [12:32] pitti, so a proposed fix could be to not call "/etc/init.d/cupsd force-reload", but this would go directly into the higher impact restart, which kills running print jobs ... [12:34] pitti: .. so here what i did: i did a live session and tried to enable desktop effects before install. live session downloaded nvidia driver ... now xorg.conf has nvidia driver, but nvidia glx is not installed [12:35] pitti, but is restarting of CUPS required at all? From CUPS 1.2 on (we are at 1.3 already) adding a backend and/or a PPD does not require restarting CUPS, why does this package restart CUPS at all ...? === amitk [n=amit@a91-154-119-106.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:35] tkamppeter: don't ask me :) worth trying, I figure; if lpinfo -v picks up new backends without restart, that would be great [12:37] cjwatson: evand: what info do you need before i reboot (read a few lines above) [12:37] pitti, that is the case, replace the unconditional restarting by starting if it is not running and nuke the "sleep 3". Starting CUPS with "/ect/init.d/cupsys start" exits only when CUPS starts to listen (or when CUPS fails). === onixpr1 [n=onixpro@62.140.244.59] has joined #ubuntu-devel === onixpr1 [n=onixpro@62.140.244.59] has left #ubuntu-devel [] === DrPepperKid is now known as MacSlow === mvo [n=egon@p54A674EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:43] asac: all the installer logs [12:44] pitti, should we fix the cups-pdf issue before Gutsy? Or do an SRU? Or nothing? [12:44] asac: if you've rebooted into the installed system, everything in /var/log/installer/ [12:44] sounds like a bug in the restricted-manager hook that's meant to install the packages it needs === rbrunhuber [n=Miranda@highway.mvi.de] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:44] is there a netinst gutsy iso kicking about? [12:45] oop, nvm, found it [12:45] tkamppeter: at most an SRU, fixing it in gutsy itself is too late === Tonio_ [n=tonio@linagoraberri.pck.nerim.net] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:46] asac: are you still in the live session or not? === rulus [n=roel@d54C1A033.access.telenet.be] has joined #ubuntu-devel [12:47] asac, thats -desktop, right ? [12:47] ogra: yes, he said "live session" [12:47] just wanted to be sure [12:47] cjwatson_: no ... i have rebooted. live-sessino worked [12:48] ogra: yes ... livecd [12:48] cjwatson_: i can probably reproduce that if you want [12:48] cjwatson_: but let me first file the bug ... which package? [12:48] err [12:48] restricted-manager I think [12:48]