[00:01] <nixternal> Riddell: my branch under the kubuntu website project is updated...needs some final tweaking
[00:01] <nixternal> I am on my way to class
[00:05] <nixternal> http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/kwww/announcements/7.10-release.php
[00:06] <nixternal> Everyone proof and help out...I am heading out...see you in a bit
[00:06] <nixternal> Riddell: ^^ there is what it looks like - the uploads can be merged in from my branch...later :)
[00:07] <ScottK> nixternal: I've my usual comment about wanting to mention GPG and S/MIME by default, but up to you.
[00:38] <kwwii> Riddell: http://sinecera.de/release.png
[00:38] <kwwii> don't say I never do anything for you :p
[00:46] <sebas> kwwii: The lack of contrast in the middle of the letters, horizontally is disturbing to the eye
[00:47] <sebas> Does it work with a white outline around the letters?
[00:48] <nosrednaekim> isn't it a bit late to change thingd ;)
[00:57] <kwwii> sebas: yeah, although it is the same exact thing as the kdm pic, which looks pretty good i was thinking the same thing
[00:57] <kwwii> I'll work on it more tomorrow but I was afraid that we would need something before I woke up .p
[00:57] <kwwii> :p
[00:58] <kwwii> man, you are tired if you mistype :p
[00:58] <sebas> I accept that. It's highly self-reflective to me
[00:58] <kwwii> wanted to make sure that something was available in case I didn't get up in time
[00:59] <kwwii> been quite busy with another project for Gutsy these last days
[00:59] <kwwii> god knows that Riddell could have said something earlier, and god knows that I could have thought of this myself
[01:00] <kwwii> man, I have become such a weak-ass in the last few months
[01:00] <kwwii> normally I would just blame it on Riddell :p
[01:00] <sebas> Hehe
[01:00] <sebas> I'll go to get some sleep I guess
[01:00] <kwwii> good ide3a
[01:01] <sebas> High five!
[01:01] <kwwii> you get the point
[01:01] <kwwii> see you
[01:01] <kwwii> sleep well
[01:02] <sebas> u2
[01:15] <DaSkreech> night kwwii
[01:19] <nixternal> so, how is everyone doing? :)
[01:20]  * Jucato still semi-sick
[01:22] <nixternal> damn man, get better already, the monkey is coming!
[01:22] <crimsun> a vista monkey?
[01:22] <Jucato> ooooh hi crimsun! long time no see :)
[01:22] <crimsun> hi Jucato
[01:25] <Riddell> #ubuntu-release-party is a bit mad
[01:26] <nixternal> crimsun: what's up man? long time no see
[01:26] <nixternal> I am glad you came back just for a cheap shot though :p
[01:26] <nixternal> Riddell: that is why I stay out of it
[01:26] <crimsun> nixternal: anytime!
[01:26] <nixternal> hehe
[01:26]  * nixternal checks the party
[01:26] <nixternal> I should go in there and say we are delaying it until Friday
[01:28] <Jucato> yes, and I will shout !nixternal in there :)
[01:28] <nixternal> actually, it is quiet, wait for the UK to wake up
[01:29] <nixternal> OK, easy to get lost in there
[01:29] <nixternal> Riddell: how is the release notes? hopefully not to beat up
[01:29] <Jucato> yeah hahah
[01:29] <Riddell> nixternal: look great
[01:29] <nixternal> good deal
[01:31] <Jucato> nixternal: <Riddell> nixternal: look great <--- that's actually a command. you should start trying to look great :P
[01:31] <nixternal> hahahah
[01:48]  * DaSkreech gets the Vista monkey off nixternal's back
[01:48] <nixternal> you got the vista bug now!
[01:49] <DaSkreech> A long time ago
[01:49] <DaSkreech> Just that I find it very unproductive
[01:49] <DaSkreech> about 1/2  the time I'm here I'm in Vista
[01:50] <nixternal> man, and I take crap for it
[01:50] <Jucato> nixternal: yes. because you're you. :)
[01:50] <nixternal> I have a head ache
[01:50] <Jucato> DaSkreech is not nixternal... so he takes a whole different kind of krap :)
[01:50] <nixternal> haha
[01:54] <nixternal> man, we should tell everyone we are running KDE 4 by default now in Gutsy in there...I bet Kubuntu beats Ubuntu in initial downloads :p
[01:55] <Jucato> lol
[01:55] <Jucato> and I'll quit being in #kubuntu after that :)
[01:56] <nixternal> wo0t...our servers just pulled in the html files for the download page
[01:56] <nixternal> ftp://ftp.ussg.iu.edu/linux/ubuntu-releases/7.10
[01:56] <nixternal> err, how did I paste Indiana Universities link and not mine
[01:56] <nixternal> oh well, ours looks the same, but I was watching the server here pull them over
[01:56] <nosrednaekim> haha... good idea :)
[01:57] <nixternal> hehe
[01:57] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Yeah but then #kde would kik our butts
[01:58] <Jucato> (your butts...)
[01:58] <nixternal> hehe
[01:58] <DaSkreech> Ha ha :)
[01:58]  * Jucato would be on a vacation
[01:58] <DaSkreech> Nice disassociation there
[01:58] <Jucato> (unannounced, indefinite)
[01:58] <Jucato> I've had my butt kicked more than enough for the sake of Kubuntu, thank you
[02:00] <nixternal> OK, I need to stop trolling
[02:00] <nixternal> I am listening to the teach go over javascript and ajax, and I am trolling
[02:00] <Jucato> one begets the other :)
[02:01] <nixternal> right
[02:02] <nixternal> I can't believe someone hasn't joined the chan yet as sabdfl
[02:03] <crimsun> because no one can without ghosting him.
[02:03] <DaSkreech> I was about to ask how tey would pull that off
[02:03] <nixternal> oh lord
[02:03] <MShuttleworth> Damn
[02:03] <MShuttleworth> He owns it already
[02:03]  * nixternal gets away from DaSkreech
[02:04]  * MShuttleworth hugs his good friend
[02:06] <MShuttleworth> nixternal: Liar!! There is no food
[02:07] <nixternal> hahahahaha
[02:07] <Jucato> food..
[02:07] <Jucato> hm.. breakfast
[02:07]  * MShuttleworth pops up basket
[02:08] <nixternal> we had people pop in that channel, to funny
[02:08] <nixternal> lets me know people are reading part messages
[02:19]  * n8k99 breaks fast
[02:20] <dasKreech> My GF always used to write it like that too
[02:20] <dasKreech> I just think it like that
[04:22] <dasKreech> nixternal: http://marriedman.deviantart.com/art/I-like-KDE-dammit-67597424
[05:38] <Jucato> Hobbsee: is gutsy officially out? can we remove the #ubuntu+1 in the topic?
[05:38] <Hobbsee> Jucato: it's not, no mail to u-a
[05:39] <Jucato> hm ok. coz someone said #ubuntu+1 is redirecting to #ubuntu now
[05:39] <Jucato> so might be useless to put #ubuntu+1 in the topic in #k
[05:41] <ScottK> #ubuntu+1 is redirecting to #ubuntu.  I'd take it out.
[05:42] <dasKreech> Yep
[05:42] <dasKreech> That's just confusing
[05:42]  * Hobbsee muhahahahaha's
[05:42] <Jucato> ok if no one else object's, I'll remove it
[05:42] <dasKreech> How do you give up ops ?
[05:42] <dasKreech>  /op- nick ?
[05:43] <dasKreech> Never mind got it
[05:47] <Jucato> for the lolcat lovers: http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
[05:49] <dasKreech> An Ceiling Cat sayz, i can haz lite? An lite wuz
[05:49] <nixternal> dasKreech: that wallpaper in that screenshot is very nice
[05:50]  * Jucato waits for the "It looks like Vista I love it" comment...
[05:50]  * nixternal kicks Jucato in the small toe
[05:50] <Jucato> which one would that be? :)
[05:50] <nixternal> right foot
[05:51] <Jucato> hm.. judging by your size and my relative size... you kicked my whole foot :)
[05:51] <Jucato> ... ouch!
[05:51] <nixternal> lol
[05:52] <dasKreech> Dese bonez is my bonez  an dis meatz are my meatz;  I calz her "whoa man", k  cuz she in ur chest taken ur ribs.
[05:53] <dasKreech> Whoa man :)
[05:53] <Jucato> wth? is Carmony really being serious?
[05:54] <dasKreech> An they sewd sum fig-leavez togethr, An made themselvez clofs. Eve even maded firs thong but was vry vry itchy. srsly.
[05:54] <dasKreech> ha ha ha
[05:59] <ScottK> Apparently (about Carmony)
[06:00] <dasKreech>  I missed the whole Linspire Ubuntu thing
[06:00] <dasKreech>  Whats going on?
[06:06] <Jucato> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=577927
[06:06] <Jucato> http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/10/17/carmony_goes_ubuntu_mitt_next/
[06:22] <Hobbsee> man...ubuntu is light years ahead of kubuntu...
[06:23] <Jucato> Hobbsee: sad...
[06:24] <Hobbsee> yeah
[06:24] <Hobbsee> but shit...you see why ubuntu has the uptake that it does, when you run it
[06:24] <Hobbsee> particularly if you change th theme
[06:26] <Hobbsee> and make it shiny
[06:26] <Hobbsee> looks a lot like kde, in some ways :)
[06:26] <Jucato> hehe
[06:26] <Jucato> unfortunately, we have the shiny only...
[06:27] <fdoving> can't say i miss much while doing my daily things in kubuntu. what does ubuntu have? gnome?
[06:28] <Jucato> bullet proof X?
[06:28] <Hobbsee> shiny stuff, compiz, the codecs
[06:28] <Jucato> printer setup?
[06:28] <Hobbsee> it just seems more integrated and polished than kubuntu
[06:28] <Hobbsee> havent tried that yet.
[06:28] <Hobbsee> it should be flawless
[06:28] <fdoving> yep, go try opensuse, mandriva, etc.
[06:28] <Jucato> a lot of users are actually comparing and noticing the discrepancy
[06:28] <fdoving> they all feel the same. polished.
[06:28] <Hobbsee> yeah, well.
[06:28] <Jucato> they're beginning to ask...
[06:31] <Hobbsee> and irssi is actually mostly bearable.
[06:31] <Hobbsee> probably because it's not straight black on white - but i set this to a light grey on black
[06:31] <Hobbsee> (er, white on black)
[06:31] <fdoving> well, work. bye.
[06:31] <dasKreech> bye
[06:32] <Jucato> bye fdoving
[06:33] <Hobbsee> hum
[06:33]  * Hobbsee kicks pidgin
[06:33] <Jucato> poor birdie :)
[06:34] <dasKreech> Jucato: he listed Kubuntu as different from Ubuntu
[06:35] <Jucato> unfortunately, he's half correct...
[06:35] <Jucato> unfortunately, there's no clear cut answer
[06:35] <Hobbsee> pidgin, you suck
[06:35]  * Jucato hands Hobbsee a shotgun
[06:35] <Hobbsee> surely you have realised that not everyone uses hotmail.
[06:35] <Jucato> although have you tried file transfer between Kopete and Yahoo! Messenger? :)
[06:36] <Hobbsee> nope
[06:36] <Jucato> you'll probaby shoot kopete too :)
[06:36] <Jucato> more than twice I've been embarrassed by that :/
[06:37] <Hobbsee> oh actually, yes i have
[06:37] <Hobbsee> file transfer never seems to work
[06:41] <ScottK> Security feature.
[06:46] <dasKreech> For Yahoo?
[06:47] <ScottK> No, not transferring files.
[06:47] <ScottK> Never know what kind of dangerous stuff you'll get.
[06:47] <dasKreech> !find openal
[06:47] <ubotu> Found: libghc6-openal-dev, libopenal-dev, libopenal0a, libopenalpp-cvs-dev, libopenalpp-cvs1 (and 2 others)
[06:52] <dasKreech> Hobbsee: What polish would Kubuntu need to bring it to challenge ubuntu ?
[06:53] <Hobbsee> just install it and have a look
[06:53] <Hobbsee> hte codecs, in particular
[06:53]  * Jucato would answer stability and upgrade path, "equal" features (maybe backends-frontends) if he were Hobbsee
[06:54]  * dasKreech pictures Jucato dressed up as Hobbsee
[06:54] <Jucato> don't
[06:54] <Jucato> even
[06:54] <Jucato> dare
[06:54] <Hobbsee> hehe
[06:54] <dasKreech> What upgrade path ?
[06:54] <Jucato> !enter | Jucato
[06:54] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: based on what i wear, that wouldnt be too scary
[06:54] <nixternal> I just deleted my Java midterm project that is due tomorrow
[06:54]  * dasKreech hardly sees what Hobbsee wears :)
[06:54] <Jucato> upgrade path from ubuntu to ubuntu+1
[06:54] <nixternal> how I did it, I have no clue
[06:55] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: come to a UDS then :P
[06:55] <Jucato> nixternal: wtf?!?! no way! :(
[06:55] <dasKreech> But in what I have seen you in.!!!
[06:55] <nixternal> Jucato: unfortunately yes way
[06:55]  * dasKreech still has those two pics of Hobbsee :)
[06:55] <Hobbsee> dasKreech: i live in tshirts and jeans and jackets, pretty much
[06:55] <dasKreech> I figured
[06:55]  * Hobbsee did a lot of sound engineering, and other such things, and so had no use for skirts.
[06:55] <nixternal> at least I have a print out of the working GUI, so she better understand
[06:55] <dasKreech> nixternal: GUI delete?
[06:55]  * Hobbsee is not a girly girl.  clan is the girly girl.
[06:55] <nixternal> ya, GUI delete
[06:56] <nixternal> about 2 hours of solid GUI work too
[06:56] <Jucato> vista gui delete or *buntu's?
[06:56] <nixternal> Kubuntu
[06:56] <Jucato> eeek
[06:56] <dasKreech> Clan ?
[06:56] <dasKreech> So it's not in ~./Trash ?
[06:56] <nixternal> my Vista box sleeps unless I feel like testing some cross-platform stuff, or I want to play Call of Duty
[06:56] <nixternal> it is in ~/.hell
[06:57] <dasKreech> Jucato: wat's wrong with our upgrade path ?
[06:57] <Jucato> hm... w/c reminds me...
[06:57] <nixternal> don't know if I found a bug or not, and if I did, I couldn't even tell you where it is
[06:57] <dasKreech> Other than KDE's spastic release schedule ?
[06:57] <Jucato> dasKreech: I'm not talking about schedules
[06:57] <Jucato> but about the actual process of upgrading to a new release
[06:57] <dasKreech> Right I'm trying to ascertain what you mean
[06:57] <dasKreech>  oh you mean not having to press alt+F2 ?
[06:58] <Jucato> not having the updater crash for one
[06:58] <dasKreech> Ah it crashed for you?
[06:58]  * nixternal beds
[06:58] <nixternal> g'nite
[06:58] <Jucato> let see if Gutsy will be the release where I won't hear it crashed for anyone
[06:58] <Jucato> k'night nixternal
[06:58] <dasKreech>  Well my co worker just spent the whole day rescusing ubuntu from an upgrade where the updater crashed and near hosed his system
[06:59] <dasKreech> He had to format and reinstall
[06:59] <dasKreech> night nixternal
[07:08] <Jucato> wb Hobbsee_ with a tail
[07:09] <Hobbsee_> :)
[07:09] <Hobbsee> hmm.  /me is on the search for a non-konversation client that doesnt suck.
[07:10] <dasKreech> irssi ?
[07:10] <Jucato> I just love users :)
[07:10] <Hobbsee> irssi's less sucky
[07:11] <dasKreech> Jucato: I know right?
[07:12] <Jucato> one of theses I will really really quit IRC user support
[07:15] <dasKreech> !hobsee
[07:15] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about hobsee - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[07:15] <dasKreech> !hobbsee
[07:15] <ubotu> I phear the stick so shhhhh
[07:15] <dasKreech> Bah
[07:16] <dasKreech> I swear anytime i fire up a GTk app my load jumps to 3
[07:17] <Hobbsee> yeah, i'm surprised hwo slow this is too
[07:18] <Jucato> yay!! the pointy stick has left!
[07:23] <ScottK> Hobbsee: Why non-Konversation?
[07:41] <dasKreech> Jucato: See  http://www.patchshorts.com/node/6 is a problem
[07:47] <Hobbsee> ScottK: because i was wondering if there was anything else.
[07:47] <Hobbsee> and i'm using gnome atm
[07:48] <ScottK> OK.  I like Konversation.  I tend to get stuff I like and then just stick with it.
[07:49] <Jucato> Hobbsee: ph34r your own stick!
[07:51] <Jucato> seriously... our users are getting smarter and noisier... they're beginning to compare feature lists and ask scary questions... we can't fool them anymore!
[07:51] <dasKreech> Compiz?
[07:52] <Jucato> that's just one. which I can easily lay the blame on compiz people ;)
[07:54] <dasKreech> ha ha
[07:54] <dasKreech> I just keep saying wait til kwin4!
[07:54] <dasKreech> The WM not the game
[07:54] <dasKreech> They damn well better have a spinning cube
[07:54] <dasKreech> Thats the only one people seem to care about
[07:55] <Jucato> they don't have a useless spinning cube. the desktop grid is great
[07:56] <dasKreech> Yeah that looks awesome :)
[07:56] <dasKreech>  too bad Compiz has that now as well
[07:56] <Jucato> and more useful
[07:56] <dasKreech> Stupid users comparing lists
[07:56] <ScottK> It's late and I'm tired, so I'm off to bed.  Good night all.
[07:56] <Jucato> good night ScottK!
[07:57] <Jucato> actually beryl had the desktop wall first before compiz did
[07:57] <sahin_h> I have to say I tested compiz in the last week. And my conclusion: it's nice and wow, but after a week I won't use anymore.
[07:58] <sahin_h> And I tested with gnome.
[07:58] <Hobbsee> !root
[07:58] <ubotu> Do not try to guess the root password, that is impossible. Instead, realise the truth.. there is no root password. Then you will see that it is sudo that grants you access and not the root password. Look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
[07:58] <sahin_h> I lost my favorite keyboard shortcuts for example.
[07:59] <sahin_h> Still there are minor but anoing bugs.
[07:59] <Hobbsee> i think we should lock that page...
[07:59] <Jucato> why?
[07:59] <sahin_h> Most of the bugs related to my dual monitor env I think.
[08:00] <sahin_h> And I can't stand with gnome, becuase most of the application what I use KDE based.
[08:01] <sahin_h> I tried to replace amarok with rhytmbox. Amarok simply the superior one.
[08:01] <sahin_h> Digikam has more features which are important for me than f-spot.
[08:01] <sahin_h> Tomboy vs basket... and so on.
[08:02] <sahin_h> So I'm going to stick with kubuntu and I'm just waiting for KDE4.
[08:03] <sahin_h> I use only two gtk apps frequently: firefox, openoffice.
[08:03] <dasKreech> Ugh
[08:03] <dasKreech> sweetheart_sunsh:  Hey Sweetheart!
[08:03] <serzholino> sahin_h: openoffice isn't gtk app
[08:03] <sweetheart_sunsh> hmm
[08:04] <dasKreech> Firefox is 'orrible :)
[08:04] <sweetheart_sunsh> ooh..hi skreechie
[08:04] <serzholino> it uses its own toolkit
[08:04] <sahin_h> serzholino: Well, you're right.
[08:04] <dasKreech> hi Sunny
[08:04] <dasKreech> Oh Sunny click on the words #dwight
[08:04] <sahin_h> dasKreech: Yep firefox not perfect, however our corporate env much better than konqueror. Unfortunately.
[08:05] <dasKreech> true :)
[08:05] <sahin_h> dasKreech:  Most of my web based corporate application simply useles with konqueror. And I have to use these apps.
[08:06] <dasKreech> Yeah I won't argue that Konqueror shoudl be rolled out in a Business :)
[08:06] <sahin_h> And yes, firefox not a gnome application too...
[08:09] <sahin_h> In the past I translated the Kubuntu Gutsy beta announcements to Hungarian
[08:09] <sahin_h> Where can I found the proposed announcement for Kubuntu Gutsy Final)?
[08:10] <sahin_h> I would like to start the translation now, because I have some spare time now.
[08:10] <sahin_h> Later maybe I won't have time for it.
[08:10] <sahin_h> Later means later on this day.
[08:13] <dasKreech> !women
[08:13] <ubotu> The women and men of the Ubuntu women project hang out in #ubuntu-women. Encouraging women to use linux? Read http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ for some suggestions compiled by women who use Linux on how to do so effectively.
[08:15] <dasKreech> What was the project to build an apt-server from your cache ?
[08:25] <ScottK> sahin_h: I saw a version of it here: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/GutsyGibbon/ReleaseNotes - I don't know if that's the final or not.
[08:25] <ScottK> Oops.  Not that one (although that would be good too).
[08:25] <ScottK> sahin_h: This one: http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/kwww/announcements/7.10-release.php
[08:26] <sahin_h> ScottK: Thanks for the link.
[08:26] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[08:28] <ScottK> nixternal: You left your book report up on your web site: http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/draft.odt
[08:49] <_StefanS_> morning
[08:49] <dasKreech> yo
[08:49] <Jucato> yo _StefanS_
[08:51] <_StefanS_> hey all
[08:51] <_StefanS_> busy night ? :)
[08:51] <_StefanS_> kinda alot going on here late last night..
[08:52] <Jucato> wasn't here :)
[08:52] <Jucato> kinda disappearing into the night :)
[08:53] <_StefanS_> among the creatures of the night...
[08:54] <Jucato> that too
[08:55] <dasKreech> Night all
[08:55] <Jucato> night
[08:55] <_StefanS_> Jucato: found you! http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlLA/original/ShaolinMonk.jpg
[08:55] <Jucato> lol!!
[08:55] <Jucato> hm... I was considering getthing a very short haircut...
[08:55] <_StefanS_> hehe
[08:55] <Jucato> since my hair has been fallling out, might as well get rid of it all.. :(
[08:56] <_StefanS_> yep thats a good thought
[08:56] <_StefanS_> oh well I need to work..
[08:56] <Jucato> unfortunately, the looks will be not as good :)
[08:56] <Jucato> unlucky you :)
[08:57] <_StefanS_> looks are deceiving :D
[08:57] <_StefanS_> seems like I have another computer for spare
[08:58] <Jucato> hahaha
[08:58] <_StefanS_> :D
[08:58] <Jucato> I should call you _StefanS_ Clause :)
[08:58] <Jucato> erll Claus
[08:58] <_StefanS_> yes
[08:58] <_StefanS_> I even sent a SE z550i to Jos also, which I happen to find in the storage
[08:59] <_StefanS_> uhm I need to buy some more memory
[09:03] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: those bugfixes are for hardy, right?
[09:20] <pwuertz> who is building the kde4 beta packages? are there going to be some updated beta3 packages, as the packages in the repository are broken? is there a guide for building the kubutu-kde4 packages from svn?
[09:22] <_StefanS_> pwuertz: Riddell, and see kubuntu.org
[09:23] <_StefanS_> pwuertz: techbase.kde.org ?
[09:24] <pwuertz> _StefanS_: yea, I've seen that beta3 was announced today... but the 3.94 packages in the repository have been built like a week ago and they are broken
[09:24] <pwuertz> _StefanS_: no updates since then
[09:25] <_StefanS_> pwuertz: Riddell has been very busy getting the kde 3.5.8 packages to behave and ofcourse all the other management.
[09:27] <pwuertz> _StefanS_: ok, sorry
[09:27] <_StefanS_> pwuertz: dont be, my guess is that stuff like that will be taken care of pretty soon
[09:56] <GNUton> hi
[09:56] <_StefanS_> hey
[09:57] <Riddell> pwuertz: what's broken about them?
[10:00] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I debugged a bit late last night and my startkde script doesn't seem to fail directly, but KDE4 just exits to kdm after the "Desktop" part of the splash screen
[10:01] <_StefanS_> Riddell: not sure what causes it
[10:01] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I will try with xephyr, it might be easier than a full session
[10:04] <Riddell> now here's an e-mail
[10:04] <Riddell>    Hallo from Greece.
[10:04] <Riddell>    How much time will take until Kubuntu 7.10 will be able for
[10:04] <Riddell>    downloading?Million users are in front of their screens for hours
[10:04] <Riddell>    today.
[10:04] <_StefanS_> Riddell: think I got it
[10:04] <_StefanS_> nice :D
[10:04] <Riddell> _StefanS_: oh?
[10:06] <_StefanS_> Riddell: gonna make a paste
[10:07] <Jucato> lol! Million users? :)
[10:07] <_StefanS_> Riddell: ksmserver: error while loading share libraries: libkpty.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[10:09] <stdin> did you install the beta with "sudo apt-get install kde4base-dev kdebase-workspace" ?
[10:09] <pwuertz> Riddell: most binaries are linked against libkpty.so... which seems to be code outsourced from konsole
[10:10] <_StefanS_> stdin: I'll try that
[10:11] <pwuertz> Riddell: but its missing
[10:11] <stdin> libkpty.so is in kdelibs5-dev
[10:11] <pwuertz> ok... just a dependency missing then
[10:12] <Riddell> well, a file in the wrong place
[10:12] <_StefanS_> ah yep
[10:12] <_StefanS_> maybe
[10:12] <stdin> well, .so's are normally links to the real object, but it's a binary
[10:12] <_StefanS_> Riddell: maybe you should post that to the kubuntu.org wiki, since we cant make changes to gutsy anymore
[10:13] <pwuertz> _StefanS_: does that mean kde4 beta3 is frozen in gutsy?
[10:14] <Riddell> I can update the instructions on kubuntu.org
[10:14] <Riddell> pwuertz: all of gutsy is frozen
[10:14] <_StefanS_> yep
[10:14] <pwuertz> is that wise?
[10:14] <_StefanS_> Riddell: that would be good
[10:16] <_StefanS_> am I the only one getting strange black screens when logging into kde, like powersaving stuff gone crazy ?
[10:16] <_StefanS_> it just immediately blanks the screen.. but it might be my DVI switch
[10:17] <_StefanS_> wierd.
[10:20] <pwuertz> for some reason.. the beta3 in the repository looks very different from http://www.kde.org/announcements/announce_4.0-beta3/plasma.png
[10:21] <pwuertz> maybe post-installed applications and plasmoids for the screenschot
[10:22] <pwuertz> _StefanS_: no, screen is ok
[10:23] <pwuertz> _StefanS_: but plasma got problems with bigger screen sizes
[10:23] <_StefanS_> pwuertz: I was referring to the current kde 3
[10:23] <pwuertz> oh ok
[10:28] <sebas> pwuertz: I had the applet from playground installed, IIRC
[10:30] <Riddell> does this work for people in konqueror? http://thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=Kubuntu%207.10%20RC
[10:30] <Riddell> clicking the screenshots?
[10:31] <stdin> nope
[10:31] <Riddell> fooey
[10:32] <_StefanS_> works for me
[10:33] <Riddell> _StefanS_: in konqueror?
[10:33] <_StefanS_> yep
[10:33] <_StefanS_> just testing now
[10:33] <Riddell> _StefanS_: you can click on the different kubuntu screenshots?  what version of KDE?
[10:33] <_StefanS_> gutsy latest
[10:33] <_StefanS_> 3.5.8
[10:33] <_StefanS_> works fine
[10:35] <Nightrose> works here - konqueror 3.5.8 on feisty
[10:37] <_StefanS_> wow archive.ubuntu.com already taking hits it seems :)
[10:37] <Riddell> spooky
[10:37] <_StefanS_> 118kb/s thats a new low
[10:58] <Riddell> _StefanS_: I'd recommend you use a mirror
[10:58] <_StefanS_> yep I might just do that
[10:58] <peterbuldge> is anybody else having a problem getting beta 3 to start?
[11:00] <peterbuldge> it gets to the flashing screen icon on load and then the xserver resets and it goes back to the login screen
[11:00] <Huff> is the official release out yet? or still making small changes via rsync?
[11:00] <stdin> it's not out yet,  #ubuntu-release-party
[11:00] <Huff> thanks
[11:00] <peterbuldge> by the way I'm talking about the kde beta 3
[11:01] <_StefanS_> peterbuldge: install kdelibs5-dev
[11:01] <_StefanS_> peterbuldge: seems to fix it
[11:01] <peterbuldge> thx
[11:01] <peterbuldge> I'll try it
[11:01] <_StefanS_> peterbuldge: I havent verified it yet, so please let us know
[11:01] <_StefanS_> us/me
[11:01] <stdin> if you install "kde4base-dev"  and "kdebase-workspace" it should get everything you need
[11:02] <peterbuldge> k gimmie a few
[11:02] <stdin> I'm guessing mirrors are going to be slow ;)
[11:03] <peterbuldge> when is 7.10 supposed to actually be available today?
[11:04] <peterbuldge> sorry I'm sure that question is being asked non-stop in here
[11:04] <stdin> today yes, exactly when, no one knows
[11:04] <peterbuldge> well the rc is pretty nifty
[11:05] <peterbuldge> is there it just going to be small bugfixes for the final release?
[11:05] <peterbuldge> or are the features that stil havent been added
[11:06] <stdin> if you keep up-to-date, then you will have the final release, won't be much different
[11:06] <Riddell> peterbuldge: we have two whole new versions of KDE in the final
[11:07] <peterbuldge> yeah you're speaking of beta 3 right?
[11:07] <Riddell> that's one of them
[11:07] <peterbuldge> and then 3.5.8
[11:08] <peterbuldge> 3.5.8 is nice
[11:09] <peterbuldge> I'm trying to get beta 3 working now... pretty anxious to see what progress has been considering beta was pretty much unusable
[11:09] <peterbuldge> brb guys
[11:18] <peterbuldge> ok guys I can confirm that installing the dev packages along with the workspace package gets beta 3 working
[11:18] <peterbuldge> at least for me
[11:18] <sahin_h> The Hungarian translation of the Kubuntu Gutsy announcement has been done.
[11:19] <peterbuldge> the plasmoids seem to work
[11:19] <peterbuldge> although I have no idea what to do with them
[11:19] <peterbuldge> ha
[11:19] <sahin_h> Now I'm ready to put the news to the some Hungarian Linux portal when Kubuntu 7.10 will be released.
[11:20] <sahin_h> One step left. I have to insert the pictures into, when the english one will take to the final place.
[11:21] <Riddell> sahin_h: based on what?
[11:22] <sahin_h> Riddell: Based on this: http://www.nixternal.com/tmp/kwww/announcements/7.10-release.php
[11:23] <sahin_h> Riddell: I hope this will be the final annoucement what ScottK show me.
[11:23] <Riddell> sahin_h: I've made some changes to that http://kubuntu.org/announcements/7.10-release.php
[11:24] <Riddell> removed digikam and amarok and added strigi and qyoto/jambi
[11:24] <peterbuldge> what will the process be for upgrading from the RC to the final?
[11:24] <sahin_h> Riddell: Ohhh. It will be a big problem if I will keep amarok and digikam?
[11:24] <peterbuldge> is it the same as upgrading from feisty?
[11:25] <peterbuldge> or is it just a regular apt-get update type deal
[11:25] <Riddell> sahin_h: not at all
[11:25] <sahin_h> Riddell: I'm going to insert strigi and qyoto/jambi after my lunch.
[11:25] <Riddell> peterbuldge: see the page above (which is not yet published)
[11:25] <Riddell> sahin_h: where is your page?
[11:26] <sahin_h> Riddell: The material not on any public page yet. However you can check the previous announcement translation on the following location>
[11:26] <peterbuldge> yeah I'm looking at it now and it only mentions upgrading from feisty
[11:27] <peterbuldge> so I guess the process is the same?
[11:27] <sahin_h> Riddell: http://ubuntu.hu/hir/megjelent-kubuntu-7-10-gutsy-gibbon-beta
[11:27] <Riddell> peterbuldge: oh, didn't read you
[11:27] <Riddell> peterbuldge: for RC upgrades you can probably just do apt-get dist-upgrade fine
[11:28] <peterbuldge> k
[11:28] <peterbuldge> where is there documention on the kde beta 3?
[11:29] <peterbuldge> it seems really different and this is the first time I've had a chance to play around with a working version
[11:29] <Riddell> peterbuldge: kubuntu.org
[11:29] <peterbuldge> haha
[11:29] <Riddell> well, depends what sort of documentation
[11:29] <peterbuldge> I'm a dummy
[11:31] <peterbuldge> I do not think I like strigi
[11:32] <peterbuldge> it has to index everything and it takes up space
[11:32] <peterbuldge> what are some other desktop search utilities?
[11:33] <emilsedgh> mhb: ping
[11:36] <Riddell> peterbuldge: #kubuntu for user questions
[11:39] <Riddell> now..who's brave?
[11:39] <Riddell>    Thank you for the Kubuntu. I still can't believe what I got for 3
[11:39] <Riddell>    pounds sterling ! :)
[11:39] <Riddell>    [1]http://www.chilloutzone.de/files/06081803.html  (flash based thank
[11:39] <Riddell>    you :) )
[11:39] <Riddell> I don't have flash so if someone dares to see what it is.. :)
[11:41] <Nightrose> haha nice one
[11:41] <Nightrose> it's two bunnies saying thank you a million times and very fast
[11:43] <Huff> haha very funny
[11:44] <serzholino> announce page has only CD download links, no DVD
[11:45] <Riddell> serzholino: we don't tend to publicise the DVDs much
[11:46] <_StefanS_> Riddell: what are the differences anyway?
[11:46] <serzholino> ok, i think i'll find them anyway :)
[11:47] <Riddell> _StefanS_: DVDs have live install and debian-installer and have more packages from debian-installer
[11:47] <_StefanS_> Riddell: so it contains the alternate also
[11:47] <_StefanS_> Riddell: or something like that.
[11:48] <Riddell> _StefanS_: yes, and the packages from supported
[11:48] <_StefanS_> uhm ok, nice to know
[11:49] <_StefanS_> Riddell: kde4 beta3 desktop is behaving _very_ slow, is there something I might have done wrong?
[11:49] <_StefanS_> Riddell: I remember it faster from beta2..
[11:49] <Riddell> the packages are built with full debugging on
[11:50] <_StefanS_> uhm, still on a 3gb dual core 2ghz it should perfom somewhat better I think.. I'm waiting 30secs for screen updates each time I click :)
[11:52] <_StefanS_> Riddell: for some odd reason it seems faster now :)
[12:36] <emilsedgh> Riddell: ah, please do not create them with debugging for next versions...
[12:56] <sahin_h> Riddell: I'm done with the Hungarian translation. The pictures included also.
[12:56] <sahin_h> Riddell: I left some extras inside (digikam, amarok, kaffeine)
[13:02] <nosrednaekim> someone needs to change the topic........
[13:02] <WaltzingAlong> Riddell: the image installation pointed to by http://kubuntu.org/announcements/7.10-release.php#upgrade  is nice but people need software-properties-kde installed to see the same screens, right?
[13:03] <WaltzingAlong> /topic Welcome to #kubuntu-devel | Kubuntu 7.10 is out! | Upgrading? http://kubuntu.org/announcements/7.10-release.php#upgrade
[13:03] <WaltzingAlong> :D tried
[13:06] <sahin_h> WaltzingAlong: Kubuntu 7.10 is really out? :-O
[13:07] <sahin_h> WaltzingAlong: Or that was a joke?
[13:07] <WaltzingAlong> sahin_h: it is
[13:07] <Jucato> stdin: sredna is one of the main devs for kate :)
[13:07] <sahin_h> WaltzingAlong: Ok, I'm going to post my Hungarian translation!
[13:08] <Jucato> ah nvm. he said it :)
[13:08] <stdin> Jucato: tbh, I'm not looking at names, just replying to sentences ;)
[13:08] <Jucato> :)
[13:18] <xevious> Hello
[13:20] <xevious> So I noticed this the last time I did a dist-upgrade, but forgot about it: While the "Distribution Upgrade" window is open, adept_notifier keeps running.  I currently have an icon in my systray telling me that I have 1108 available upgraded packages.
[13:21] <WaltzingAlong> yes and? (btw the support channels are #kubuntu and #ubuntu)
[13:21] <xevious> i'm suggesting
[13:21] <xevious> it seems logical that adept's distribution upgrade process should shut off adept_notifier
[13:21] <xevious> that could confuse noobs
[13:22] <WaltzingAlong> xevious: if you watch it, as items are installed adept_notifier reports fewer available updates!
[13:22] <xevious> not in sync with what the distribution upgrade is doing
[13:22] <xevious> well it probably will be
[13:22] <xevious> but i'm in the downloading phase right now.
[13:23]  * Jucato is not even sure you'll be able to launch adept updater from adept notifier while the distribution upgrade is running
[13:23] <xevious> Jucato: adept notifier was running when i started it
[13:23] <Jucato> yes. I don't think it matters
[13:23] <xevious> seems silly to notify users about "available updates" when you're doing a major system upgrade
[13:23] <sahin_h> Riddell: Here's the Kubuntu Gutsy announcement in Hungarian Language:
[13:23] <sahin_h> Riddell: http://ubuntu.hu/hirek/2007oct/megjelent-kubuntu-7.10-gutsy-gibbon
[13:24] <xevious> and like it could cause confusion. "I'm upgrading and I already need to update it??"
[13:24] <Jucato> how about "I'm upgrading that's why there are updates showing"?
[13:25] <xevious> meh
[13:25] <xevious> ok
[13:25]  * Jucato shrugs
[13:25] <xevious> it just seems like it would be more polished if it killed adept notifier
[13:25] <xevious> to me at least
[13:25] <WaltzingAlong> but you are installing 1108 updates
[13:26] <xevious> right and the distribution upgrade already told me that it was going to do that
[13:26] <Jucato> *I* don't think it's really that confusing. *I* don't think users are that "ignorant". But *I* don't represent the majority, and *I* might be wrong
[13:26] <WaltzingAlong> the difference between 7.04 and 7.10 (among other things) is the set of packages, the version numbers.
[13:27] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: BTW, do you use Dolphin?
[13:27] <Jucato> noooope :)
[13:27] <nosrednaekim> Jucato: ah... becaue I woul have thought you would have found this bug ;)
[13:27] <Jucato> I think I've had enough Dolphin for a month. but that actually depends
[13:28] <nosrednaekim> heh. yeah... its really bad.
[13:28] <Jucato> if I have a konq window open (which is 99% of the time), I use konq
[13:28] <xevious> I'll see how many people get confused by that.
[13:28] <Jucato> only use dolphin when no window is open or it's from an inserted media
[13:28] <Jucato> xevious: we'll see
[13:28] <xevious> My guess: the sax player in my band who said "wow that's neat. can i get that? does it work with my ipod?" when he saw kubuntu on my system. and my mom
[13:28] <Jucato> I don't think there were confused people last time
[13:29] <xevious> ok. let's compare to windows for a sec.
[13:29] <xevious> :D
[13:29]  * xevious plays devil's advocate i guess
[13:29] <amachu_> hey
[13:29] <xevious> windows update, the little systray icon: for marginal updates
[13:29] <WaltzingAlong> and the website both in action!
[13:30] <amachu_> i have postgresql-8.2 installed, and its not allowing me to upgreade
[13:30] <xevious> new windows comes out, you can upgrade with an upgrade disc and it opens a window, similar to this Distribution Upgrade window that I see now.
[13:31]  * Jucato waits for the "punchline"
[13:31] <xevious> during the XP -> Vista upgrade (which someone unfortunately hired me to do in spite of me recommending strongly against it), windows update doesn't pop up and say "hey! Vista's available. do you want to upgrade?"
[13:31] <xevious> because that systray icon notifies people of marginal updates.
[13:31] <nosrednaekim> so you are arguing people should have to go out and pay 200 buck for the next version of kubutu to avoid this ;)
[13:31] <xevious> hahaa
[13:32]  * nosrednaekim is REALLY playing the devils advocate
[13:32] <WaltzingAlong> paying 200 is really the short term
[13:33] <Jucato> xevious: then?
[13:33] <Jucato> xevious: there's a difference... Adept/APT is locked
[13:33] <xevious> I'm just saying that it seemed kind of clunky after I already clicked through a bunch of windows distinctly telling me what it was going to do, that adept_notifier decided to make me aware of the 1108 available updates. I looked at the little notify bubble and thought "No shit, sherlock." pardon the language. I just want Kubuntu to be ultra smooth.
[13:33] <Jucato> so technically adept updater won't run
[13:34] <xevious> ?
[13:34] <WaltzingAlong> so basically you thought it was clunky that you were being told by notifier that there were several packages to be updated while you were updating them?
[13:35] <Jucato> adept notifier's job is  just to display that there are updates available. once you click it, it will try to run adept updater , which is a different app
[13:35] <WaltzingAlong> prefer not to have feedback during the process?
[13:35] <xevious> WaltzingAlong: i have feedback
[13:35] <Jucato> and adept updater, just like adept manager and installer, will not run when something's using apt
[13:35] <xevious> in Adept's Distribution Upgrade window that's sitting in the corner
[13:35]  * Jucato wil just have dinner
[13:35] <xevious> it's a progress bar
[13:35] <WaltzingAlong> two types of feedback, graphical and textual
[13:36] <xevious> yes i have textual feedback in that Distribution Upgrade window, too
[13:37] <WaltzingAlong> :D
[13:38] <WaltzingAlong> ok point noted
[13:38] <xevious> you guys are rough
[13:38] <xevious> seriously though. i installed dapper on my friend's computer, not knowing that feisty was coming out about 4 days later
[13:38] <xevious> (well he installed it actually, i was there in case of emergency)
[13:39] <xevious> 4 days later he called up and said "i'm doing the upgrade and it tells me there's already updates available for it"
[13:39] <xevious> we'll see if it confuses him once again
[13:39] <WaltzingAlong> guess it would help to understand a bit how deb works?
[13:39] <xevious> i've got a firm grasp on it.
[13:40] <xevious> been using debian since buzz
[13:41] <xevious> linux since kernel 0.98.3
[13:42] <ScottK> xevious: I'm sure manchicken would really love help fixing adept up.  I haven't dared to look.  I understand the code is pretty evil.
[13:43] <xevious> all i'm looking for is kill `pidof adept_notifier` at the start of the graphical dist-upgrade process
[13:44] <xevious> ... if we're being bash-y
[13:44] <ScottK> Won't it just spin it up again? (I honestly don't know, I just use apt myself).
[13:45] <xevious> we'll see
[13:45] <xevious> i just killed it
[13:45] <mhb> I whole-heartedly thank all of the people who worked on, helped test and bugfix Kubuntu Gutsy Gibbon. They have done a really great job. Thanks for making it happen! Special thanks as always to our dearest Jonathan Riddell!
[13:46] <mhb> emilsedgh: I am still at school, will be with you in an hour.
[13:47] <emilsedgh> ok thanks mhb
[13:48] <emilsedgh> Kudos to whole community and dev's, speciallly J. Riddell
[13:52] <WaltzingAlong> thanks all!
[13:52] <WaltzingAlong> looking forward to the name changes ubuntuK ubuntuG ubuntuX  so we can call them all ubuntu, hehe
[13:53] <Jucato> mhb: sounds like a valedictory speech :)
[13:53] <xevious> you got my two cents. do what you want with it...
[13:54] <Jucato> hm... I could have ended the discussion earlier with a "file a bug/wish" :D
[13:54] <mhb> Jucato: no, it's a big thank you to you all, the active community, including the upstream people who use Kubuntu and comment on it (nudge nudge) :o)
[13:55]  * Jucato looks around...
[13:55] <Jucato> riiiight :)
[13:55]  * WaltzingAlong slaps xevious with a large trout
[13:55] <mhb> Jucato: that was a joke, of course ... KDE folks have done most of the work on the system.
[13:55] <Jucato> mhb: don't worry. I have a very good sense of humor :)
[13:55] <Jucato> to the point of being bad :)
[13:56] <Jucato> WaltzingAlong: in absentia...
[13:56] <WaltzingAlong> noticed that too
[13:58] <mhb> Jucato: and thanks all the user of kubuntu in the world that they are loyal to us and to the people that translate the system and give advice to others.
[13:58] <Jucato> of course. that's what a community is all about :)
[13:58]  * Jucato just wished we had more testers... hm.. blog post coming up
[14:00] <mhb> Jucato: I wish we had people who would share their ideas with us.
[14:00] <mhb> more people
[14:00] <mhb> and experience with other distros, etc.
[14:00] <WaltzingAlong> mhb: such as?
[14:00] <Jucato> we always have people like that.. the problem is collecting them and filtering through them
[14:01] <mhb> WaltzingAlong: people that would come and say "hey, I have migrated from kubuntu to opensuse because of this and this and this."
[14:01] <Jucato> ah testimonials of sorts
[14:01] <mhb> WaltzingAlong: people either don't say why or they migrate just because ABC is cool.
[14:01] <WaltzingAlong> so you want more feedback from then on why?
[14:01] <WaltzingAlong> gotcha
[14:01] <Jucato> or they just say... "it just works" :)
[14:01] <Jucato> (that's mostly what I hear)
[14:02] <mhb> right. No helpful information at all.
[14:02] <WaltzingAlong> i prefer kde over gnome and realize (it seems to me) that ubuntu is (still) gnome centric but kubuntu is shaping up
[14:02] <WaltzingAlong> well should i come across any i will drill them for answers! :D
[14:02] <Jucato> mhb: if you're interested... http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?board=23.0
[14:02] <mhb> thanks
[14:02] <mhb> I will read it after the lecture
[14:03] <Jucato> I can put out such a call for these kinds of things... but be prepared for an onslaught of info
[14:03] <mhb> declaring arrays in pascal is not very interesting, though :o(
[14:03] <Jucato> both useful and useless
[14:03] <WaltzingAlong> actually i switched from suse to ubuntu because i preferred deb based over rpm but i picked suse over otther dists (this was 2004) because of yast
[14:03] <Jucato> there are arrays in pascal? hahah
[14:05] <stdin> hmm, we're getting a _lot_ of reports that adept is not showing the Version Upgrade button
[14:05] <mhb> WaltzingAlong: yast is a good and a bad thing for suse ... you cannot easily integrate it with upstream/other distros, which is kind of on purpose
[14:05] <mhb> if yast were separate kcm modules ... I wish.
[14:06] <WaltzingAlong> mhb: that was then. i was new and had used redhat a bit but found suse then easier for beginners
[14:06] <WaltzingAlong> kcontrol works for me and i dabble with the cli often enough but still like a gui there some times
[14:07] <Jucato> yast has its own brand of separate modules though. but yes, it would be great if you could integrate the two
[14:07] <Jucato> or inter-operate
[14:07] <mhb> Jucato: yeah. Like separate a bunch of them and have them in kcontrol/systemsettings.
[14:07] <Jucato> mhb: while you're being bored to death by pascal arrays (they still teach pascal?!?!) have you heard of packagekit?
[14:08] <Jucato> I just heard about it recently but don't know much about it
[14:08] <mhb> Jucato: hehe :o) yes, I did.
[14:08] <mhb> Jucato: it's a bittersweet thing to me.
[14:09] <mhb> Jucato: it uses a separate server for package installation and D-Bus to interact with it.
[14:09] <Jucato> iirc you didn't like the D-bus part?
[14:09] <WaltzingAlong> all my programming in undergrad college was with cobol and rpg with a touch of c++
[14:09] <Jucato> role playing games? :D
[14:11] <mhb> Jucato: yes, I didn't. Having a separate package server with D-Bus is one thing, creating a layer for interacting with *all* package types another.
[14:11] <mhb> Jucato: there should be a libpackage which you can link against for your app to work with all package types.
[14:11] <Huff> what was the official release time, gmt, for gutsy?
[14:12] <Riddell> Huff: a couple of hours ago
[14:12] <mhb> Jucato: this way we're forcing everyone to run the package server in the background, and that would be bad.
[14:13] <stdin> Riddell: any idea why adept isn't showing the "Version Upgrade" button without "--version-upgrade" ?
[14:13] <mhb> let the distribution decide whether it will take a async & D-Bus or sync & fast path - but packagekit doesn't allow that.
[14:13] <Riddell> stdin: bug 153889
[14:13] <Jucato> mhb: it was explained to me this way: apt <-> package kit service <-> dbus <-> GUI frontend
[14:14] <stdin> ah :)
[14:14] <Jucato> stdin: I thought the --version-upgrade was a requirement?
[14:14] <mhb> Jucato: better to say apt (library) - linked with packagekit daemon - communicating via dbus - gui frontend
[14:14] <WaltzingAlong> role playing games would have been more relevant! rpg was an ugly cobol
[14:14] <stdin> Jucato: only from RC (or so the upgrade instructions say)
[14:15] <Jucato> RC
[14:15] <Jucato> er.. I C
[14:15] <Jucato> bah! "I see"
[14:16] <Jucato> stdin: good luck w/ user support btw :)
[14:16] <mhb> Jucato: better (design) solution - apt (library) - unifiedfacade (library) - whatever you want
[14:17] <stdin> Jucato: feel like jumping in? /me want's lunch ;)
[14:17] <Jucato> stdin: tbh... I've been sort of in the dumps w/ user support lately...
[14:17] <Jucato> I try to peek in once in a while... but while you guys are there...
[14:18] <stdin> Jucato: can't say I blame you
[14:18] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153889 in adept "feisty dist upgrade check does not work" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153889
[14:18] <Jucato> stdin: don't worry, it might just be a phase I'm going through
[14:18] <Jucato> mhb: for you, the unifiedfacade has to be non-d-bus? but wouldn't be using d-bus mean that it would be more likely to be accepted across other distros?
[14:19] <mhb> Jucato: the unifiedfacade is a library. The d-bus is used (in packagekit) just for requesting stuff. You can create an async solution if you want.
[14:19] <Jucato> (but generally I have almost lost all will to do user support...)
[14:20] <manchicken> ScottK: I'd also love my machine back.
[14:20] <manchicken> It's supposed to show up sometime today.
[14:20] <ScottK> Heh.
[14:20]  * Jucato thinks DaSkreech should be around to see these upgrade questions/problems
[14:20] <manchicken> System76 is rocking pretty hard.  Where Best Buy and HP would just send it via UPS ground, System76 is sending my lappy home at the speed of DHL overnight.
[14:21] <manchicken> So for warranty repair, System76 gets an A-
[14:21] <manchicken> They'd get a higher grade only if they had a store I could walk into :)
[14:21] <manchicken> (without waiting a week for the repair)
[14:22] <mhb> Jucato: in fact, there will be a unifiedlibrary in packagekitd somewhere.
[14:22] <Jucato> mhb: sounds kool :)
[14:22] <mhb> Jucato: but it will be a GNOME-like-hackish-unifiedlibrary-wedon'tcarehowitlookslike-ifitworks.
[14:23] <Jucato> you lost me at the first word :)
[14:23] <mhb> simply said, packagekit will not develop a platform-app independent layer for other apps to use.
[14:23] <Jucato> stdin: ping
[14:24] <mhb> but just an internal layer that will be (most likely) limited and not portable.
[14:24] <Jucato> oh lunch sorry...
[14:25] <Jucato> Riddell: um.. just to confirm. feisty-proposed is no longer necessary to be enabled?
[14:25] <stdin> Jucato: nah, just grabbed some chocolate :)
[14:25] <Jucato> same question then ^^^
[14:25] <Riddell> Jucato: best to keep it in
[14:26] <Jucato> the upgrade instructions don't say so... might that cause some problems?
[14:26] <manchicken> I love this.  Once a month I give away about 30-40 discs at my community computer workshop.  I requested 75 from shipit, and 35 were approved.
[14:26] <Jucato> btw the screenshot shows -proposed is enabled
[14:26] <manchicken> Err, requested 175
[14:31] <Jucato> stdin: please if you know something, while it's early, should we have them enable pre-release updates (-proposed)?
[14:32] <stdin> hmm
[14:32] <stdin> I'd say yes, I guess
[14:32] <Riddell> the screenshots seem quite broken
 ok, I swear I said pre-relase updates before and it didn't work. but it's seeing an upgrade now
[14:33] <Riddell> which ones are you looking at?
[14:33] <stdin> this one http://kubuntu.org/~jriddell/kubuntu-upgrade/snapshot2.png ?
[14:33] <Jucato> http://www.kubuntu.org/~jriddell/kubuntu-upgrade/snapshot2.png
[14:33] <Riddell> hmm, works now
[14:34] <Riddell> ah, it's without the www. that it's broken
[14:34] <Riddell> weird
[14:35] <Jucato> stdin: has this been the issue for the past hours now?
[14:36] <stdin> yeah, since we announced the release basically
[14:36]  * Jucato is itching now :/
[14:37] <WaltzingAlong> with and without www resolve for me
[14:40] <Riddell> stdin: it doesn't really matter either way, but it's best to keep it in for that adept fix and in gutsy for the kdelibs fix
[14:40] <Riddell> which hopefully will appear at some point
[14:40] <jeroenvrp> congratalations!
[14:41] <Jucato> thanks :)
[14:41] <jeroenvrp> funny thing is that adept has a version upgrade for me, allthough I am already on Gutsy :-)
[14:41] <Jucato> kudos to Riddell and the Kubuntu Team
[14:41] <manchicken> Jucato: And kudos to you :)
[14:41] <jeroenvrp> ah "your system is up-to-date"
[14:42] <Jucato> manchicken: hahah thanks! but my presence has been declining once again :)
[14:42] <manchicken> Tell me about it.
[14:42] <Jucato> manchicken: btw, if you have the time, just something for consideration: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/adept/+bug/153911
[14:42] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 153911 in adept "adept notifier runs during adept-instigated dist-upgrade" [Undecided,New]
[14:43] <Jucato> I rather he reported it than ranted about it :)
[14:43] <manchicken> Yes, I can confirm that.
[14:43] <manchicken> It's been that way for ages.
[14:44] <manchicken> I'll confirm with comments, and priority.
[14:44] <Jucato> yeah, I'm personally not in favor of his suggestion. but I'd rather you guys see it for yourself :)
[14:46] <manchicken> Yeah, I don't want to kill adept_notifier there either.
[14:46] <manchicken> I actually suggested a solution.
[14:46] <manchicken> I think you'll like mine better.
[14:46] <manchicken> brb
[14:46] <Jucato> thanks :)
[14:47] <manchicken> np
[14:47] <Jucato> manchicken: you're right I like it! :)
[14:54]  * Jucato notes that a flood of user support questions is not good for asthma :(
[14:59] <mhb> Jucato: I have written a blog post requesting feedback from other distros on my Czech blog. The good thing is that the local Linux numbers are small, so I can get an estimate whether people will write something insightful.
[15:12] <nixternal> mornin'
[15:13] <mhb> hi nixternal and thanks
[15:14] <mhb> (see above for my big thanks to all)
[15:14] <ScottK> mornin' nixternal.  See my note in the scrollback about your school paper?
[15:14] <lontra> hi quick question ... i am wondering what the plan is for the next kubuntu release with regards to KDE 4?  i know that the next release will be a LTS so I'd imagine you'll be sticking with KDE 3 for at least one more release.  Am I right?  By the way congrats on 7.10 looks like the best kubuntu yet
[15:15] <ScottK> lontra: That's the plan right now.
[15:15] <nixternal> ScottK: heh, that was so I could have someone proof it
[15:16] <mhb> lontra: you're right, KDE4 packages will be available (and easily installable) in the universe repository
[15:16] <ScottK> nixternal: Shows you the dangers of leaving the directories browsable.
[15:16] <nixternal> Congratulations to everyone
[15:16] <nixternal> ScottK: ya, I do that purposely though
[15:16] <lontra> thanks
[15:16] <ScottK> OK.
[15:19] <Riddell> yo mhb, nixternal, thanks for all your help with Gutsy
[15:20] <nosrednaekim> congrats Riddell mhb, nixternal, looking and working good :)
[15:26]  * lontra thinks it would be interesting if Debian Lenny were to ship with KDE 4 before kubuntu.  
[15:26] <nixternal> Riddell For President!  forget Pedro!
[15:26] <Jucato> nixternal!!!!!!!
[15:26] <nixternal> Jucato!!!!!!!!
[15:26] <Jucato> hello!!!111
[15:26] <nixternal> I am ditching class today...so I can finally catch up on some school work
[15:27] <Jucato> er.. ditching school to do school work? :)
[15:27] <nixternal> hehe, right
[15:34] <manchicken> Scotland has too many numbers in their telephone numbers.
[15:34] <manchicken> Crazy Europeans and your weird phone numbers.
[15:34] <manchicken> heh
[15:34] <Riddell> 11, I'm sure I've seen numbers in the US with that many
[15:35] <manchicken> I'm counting 13 on the one you posted on the release announcement.
[15:36] <Riddell> with international code
[15:36] <manchicken> heh
[15:38] <Jucato> we also have 13 for our cellular phone numbers...
[15:38] <manchicken> If anybody is interested (and close enough to join) I'm having a no-cost community computer workshop on Saturday here in good ol' Mahomet, IL.
[15:39] <manchicken> We have 7 for local, 10 for domestic non-local.
[15:39] <manchicken> I always use 10-digit numbers though.
[15:39] <manchicken> Makes it easier for when I travel.
[15:40] <manchicken> Ooh, you know what's super-cool?  If I go to Europe again, now that I'm on tmobile, I can buy a prepaid SIM card for my blackberry and it'll work in Europe :)
[15:40] <manchicken> Are there even any CDMA carriers outside the US?
[15:43] <ScottK> manchicken: I think in South Korea, but I'm not sure.
[15:43] <manchicken> Hmm.
[15:43] <manchicken> ScottK: You're coming for the workshop, aren't you? :P
[15:44] <ScottK> I'm hoping to be at UDS on Monday, but that's the only day I'll be able to be there.
[15:44] <WaltzingAlong> in the usa all phone numbers are country code + 3 digit area code + 3 digit prefix code + remaining 4 digits;    if a city gets large, new prefix codes need to be used, changing the numbers for some people
[15:44] <ScottK> $WORK will pay for me to be in the area for a Tuesday meeting.
[15:45] <manchicken> Anybody know where the next UDS is gonna be?
[15:46] <Riddell> manchicken: undecided
[15:46]  * manchicken votes for Mahomet, IL.
[15:51] <mhb> manchicken: you want me never to attend, do you?
[15:52] <manchicken> mhb: Where are you?
[15:52] <manchicken> mhb: You can chill at my place for the event if you want :)
[15:52] <mhb> manchicken: heh, dont you remember? Your government doesnt want the likes of me in the U.S.
[15:52] <Riddell> manchicken: you'll be raided by homeland security
[15:53] <manchicken> mhb: Really?  I don't remember....
[15:53]  * ScottK seriously wishes he could honestly say Riddell is being ridiculous.
[15:53] <manchicken> Riddell: Homeland Security actually needs a warrant to do anything to me :)
[15:53] <mhb> http://mhb.ath.cx/blog/english/enjoy-the-uds-without-me/
[15:53] <manchicken> And my local police would be helping me out, too.
[15:53] <Riddell> I suspect if you had an illegal immigrant in your house they could get one
[15:54] <ScottK> manchicken: Don't be certain.
[15:54] <manchicken> Riddell: Wouldn't be the first time.
[15:55] <manchicken> mhb: That's rather stupid of them.
[15:55] <mhb> manchicken: well it would be a bummer to sail the atlantic on a fishing ship
[15:55] <mhb> in the box with the macrels
[15:56] <manchicken> mhb: I'm just sad to see that this is actually how things are going.
[15:56] <mhb> mackerel or how you call them :o)
[15:56] <emilsedgh> mhb: there?
[15:56] <mhb> emilsedgh: I am here now, yes ... I was here but you disconnected
[15:57] <manchicken> mhb: Next time tell them that you're going to be visiting a US Citizen, and give contact information.
[15:57] <emilsedgh> mhb: oh sorry, i didnt know youre here, could i /msg now?
[15:57] <mhb> emilsedgh: sure
[15:57] <mhb> manchicken: yes, but I didnt have anyone there
[15:57] <WaltzingAlong> i can give you my info but i am not there anymore
[15:57] <manchicken> mhb: You could have asked me :)
[15:58] <manchicken> Oh, you're from the Czech republic?  Why the F are they worried about Czech folks?
[15:58] <mhb> manchicken: the consul made clear that students are the most dangerous, especially when you do not have a bank account with a large sum
[15:58] <manchicken> You didn't express any desire to kill Americans or anything about death to America?
[15:58] <manchicken> Are you serious?
[15:58] <manchicken> We have broke-ass students from around the world all over our country.
[15:59] <manchicken> And most of them are driving autos when they have no business doing so.
[15:59] <mhb> for some reason they want to see that too
[15:59] <Riddell> that's pretty common, I've had problems with getting visas for students before
[15:59] <Riddell> if you're going to university that's probably a different thing
[15:59] <mhb> Riddell: no, it is not.
[16:00] <manchicken> Contact RMS and see if he'll help you get in by saying you're visiting MIT.
[16:00] <manchicken> I think he's worked that angle before for folks.
[16:00] <mhb> well at least the first-years, and I guess the last years, too... what year you have to be in so they will let you in? :o)
[16:00] <manchicken> I think this is all bullshit.
[16:00] <manchicken> !language
[16:00] <ubotu> Please watch your language and topic, and keep this channel family friendly.
[16:00] <manchicken> Sorry
[16:01] <mhb> yeah, lets go back to the topic.
[16:01] <manchicken> mhb: Mind if I send your blog post around to my legislators?
[16:01] <mhb> manchicken: do what you want :o)
[16:01] <manchicken> mhb: Righto.
[16:04] <mhb> manchicken: heh, I guess until you drop the need of a visa to go to the U.S. I will never be awarded one now that I am in their "VISA declined " database :o
[16:04] <mhb> )
[16:05]  * mhb should really shut up, and he does so
[16:05] <Riddell> what's a bit random is why czech people need one but say Lure doesn't
[16:06] <Lure> Riddell: I am Slovene, we are on visa wavier program
[16:08] <Riddell> sure, but why does the US trust Slovenia and not Czech
[16:09] <Riddell> (especially since they're both EU now)
[16:10] <mhb> I really didn't want to create a world-wide discussion about this... the UDS will be cool for all attending even though a few of us couldn't come.
[16:13] <manchicken> Have we done a UDS in Scotland?
[16:13] <Riddell> nope
[16:13] <Riddell> of course we had Debconf and Akademy this year
[16:13] <manchicken> Let's all crash Riddell's place.
[16:14] <Riddell> bit of a squeeze, but I could put the non KDE developers in my canoe shed I guess :)
[16:14] <manchicken> Totally.
[16:14] <manchicken> That's what they get for delaying KDE4.
[16:20] <MidMark> hi guys I have a simple request for the next version of the upgrade tool
[16:20] <MidMark> please keep in mind that the tool should take care about possible crashes in package updates
[16:20] <MidMark> it's a shame (not want to offend) that entire updates stops for a segmentation fault by python in a single package
[16:20] <MidMark> now I have problems continuing to upgrade
[16:20] <MidMark> this should be a very high prorioty!
[16:21] <Riddell> MidMark: if you have a crash please report it to launchpad.net/ubuntu on update-manager
[16:21] <Jucato> MidMark: it would be very much appreciated if you could report a bug
[16:21] <MidMark> Riddell: already reported ages ago anyway this isn't the point
[16:21] <MidMark> the point is: update manager should not leave the system half updated and in an ibrid state only for a single stupid package
[16:21] <MidMark> IMO
[16:24] <MidMark> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debconf/+bug/146932
[16:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 146932 in debconf "package debconf 1.5.14 failed to install/upgrade: " [Undecided,New]
[16:31] <Jucato> good night everyone and congratulations on the release!
[16:31] <Jucato> (and good luck with the onslaught of user support, specially you stdin!)
[16:31] <mhb> good night Jucato
[16:31] <stdin> night Jucato
[16:31] <Jucato> g'night mhb!
[16:32] <Jucato> mhb: btw, looks like there's some news about smolt from liquidat's blog
[16:34] <MidMark> guys just a question: to make restarting the update process it say that there is another process that is locking, i've killed all sudo, update_manager.py and friends, who remains?
[16:34] <stdin> !aptfix
[16:34] <ubotu> If Adept crashed on you and your database is locked, try this in konsole: « sudo fuser -vki /var/lib/dpkg/lock;sudo dpkg --configure -a »
[16:34] <MidMark> oks
[16:34] <MidMark> this also should be added to adept
[16:34] <MidMark> IMO
[16:34] <stdin> it is in gutsy
[16:34] <stdin> :)
[16:35] <MidMark> ok good to hear
[16:38] <bddebian> Heya
[16:46] <MidMark> stdin: ok that worked, however I restarts the upgrade tool, but it closes... so now I'm unable to go back neither go forward
[16:46] <MidMark> any idea?
[16:52] <davmor2> Congrats Guys and Gals you've done a smashing job :)
[16:52]  * jpatrick wishes he could of done more
[16:53]  * mhb would have done more if he didn't have to sleep ... cursed sleep!
[16:54] <stdin> MidMark: does 'kdesu "adept_manager --version-upgrade"' not restart it?
[16:55] <MidMark> stdin: yes, but then starts to refetch repo and then crash or exit or don't know
[16:55] <MidMark> is there a way to understand what happens? logs?
[16:55] <MidMark> oh found
[16:58] <MidMark> stdin: http://pastebin.com/m78183b73
[16:58] <MidMark> this is the log when I try to restart
[17:00] <stdin> hmm, you'll have to show that to someone who knows adept better
[17:01] <MidMark> stdin: talk about libdbus-1-dev but it's in place, so don't which is the problem
[17:03] <MidMark> and trying a manual distupgrade-> http://pastebin.com/m37f0f9e0
[17:04] <stdin> try "sudo apt-get -f install"
[17:05] <MidMark> stdin: ok seems something is moving
[17:05] <MidMark> thx
[17:05] <stdin> good luck :)
[17:06] <MidMark> :)
[17:14] <manchicken_> We need a tool that will not only install kubuntu-desktop, but will remove the gnome applications, too.
[17:14] <manchicken_> So like a Ubuntu-to-Kubuntu switcher.
[17:15] <manchicken_> We could put that up on the System76 forums.
[17:15] <manchicken_> BTW, I got my lappy back.
[17:15] <manchicken_> I'm so happy.
[17:15] <MidMark> thanx to stdin now upgrade tool restarted
[17:15] <MidMark> :)
[17:16] <jpatrick> manchicken_: remove libgtk1.2 should do it
[17:16] <stdin> !purekde | manchicken_, I made this because that doesn't exist
[17:16] <ubotu> manchicken_, I made this because that doesn't exist: purekde is If you want to remove all !Gnome packages and have a default !Kubuntu system follow the instructions here « https://help.ubuntu.com/community/PureKDE »
[17:17] <manchicken_> stdin: Does removing ubuntu-desktop really work?
[17:18] <stdin> manchicken_: in some cases (when you use aptitude to install/remove)  it does
[17:18] <stdin> otherwise packages need to be manually removed
[17:19] <Lure> manchicken_: probably just remove one libgnomeXXX that every gnome app depends on
[17:19] <Lure> manchicken_: pitti told me once which  but I do not remember
[17:21] <stdin> probably libgnome2-0
[17:21] <Lure> stdin: that sounds like it, yes
[17:22] <manchicken_> I'm 4% in downloading the updates from the last week.  heh
[17:22] <manchicken_> This... may take a while.
[17:22] <mhb> manchicken_: hehe, you should have upgraded before the frenzy
[17:22] <manchicken_> I couldn't.
[17:22] <manchicken_> My lappy was in the shop :(
[17:23] <mhb> manchicken_: ah,yes. Sorry then.
[17:25] <manchicken_> Mmm... Amarok...
[17:28] <mhb> Riddell: I started a python/kde3 desktop-effects minitool for installing/starting compiz fusion some time ago, do we want a kcmshell module like this for Hardy?
[17:28] <mhb> it just installs the package (one click) and replaces kwin with compiz (second click)
[17:32] <Riddell> mhb: that would be very cool
[17:32] <mhb> Riddell: when will hardy archives open?
[17:32] <Riddell> mhb: compiz probably needs some changes to fall back to kwin instead of metacity (I'm not sure)
[17:32] <Riddell> mhb: hardy archives should open soon, don't know when exactly
[17:33] <Riddell> maybe tomorrow, maybe even today#
[17:33] <mhb> really?
[17:33] <mhb> hmm
[17:33] <Riddell> well, created rather
[17:33] <mhb> great.
[17:33] <Riddell> won't be open for uploading until the toolchain gets in place
[17:33] <mhb> I will try to get it in early then.
[17:34] <mhb> it is nothing revolutionary, but easy configuration of compiz might be good for the people who like it now (and might prefer it over kwin4 in the future)
[17:34] <ScottK> mhb: Please make sure disabling is easy too.
[17:35] <mhb> ScottK: sure, it's just an install button that changes into remove and start that changed into stop
[17:35] <ScottK> Cool.
[17:35] <mhb> ScottK: of course, when it breaks you cannot really count on the GUI.
[17:35] <Riddell> mhb: it might be good to have a test in it to see if compiz will work first
[17:35] <mhb> selecting a window when you have no window manager is quite hard
[17:36] <ScottK> Right.  My main worry is getting a box that qualifies for compiz by default and I want to have an easy way to make it go away forever.
[17:36] <mhb> Riddell: right, I will take a look at how Ubuntu decides the machine is worthy.
[17:37] <Riddell> mhb: it's in the /usr/bin/compiz script
[17:37] <Riddell> so may not be a way to do it without installing and running compiz
[17:38] <manchicken_> Compiz, even with the kde-decorator, removes so much functionality.
[17:38] <mhb> manchicken_: of course, you are right.
[17:38] <mhb> manchicken_: which is why we don't have it by default.
[17:38] <manchicken_> does KDE 3.5.8 have better translucency support?
[17:39] <mhb> manchicken_: but many people like it, and we will gain plus points if we provide a way of turning it on, and I can sacrifice a free weekend for plus points :o)
[17:39] <manchicken_> It worked for me under 3.5.7, but it wasn't very stable.
[17:39] <manchicken_> mhb: Fair enough.
[17:50] <mhb> see you folks, I have one more class to attend. I hope we can make hardy rock as much as gutsy and I am looking forward to your Hardy ideas here and in LP blueprints!
[17:50] <DaSkreech> Beat ubuntu :)
[17:51] <mhb> DaSkreech: sure, give me and a handful of coders a job and you shall have what you ask for
[17:51] <mhb> .o)
[17:52] <DaSkreech> Really Iwant to see a Semiofficial KDE4 ship for hardy
[17:53] <mhb> DaSkreech: well you will get a KDE4.0 packed, question is, will we be able to make a KDE4 CD spin?
[17:53] <mhb> but Riddell is the man to ask here
[17:53] <mhb> DaSkreech: of course, second question is, will we be able to port Adept and all the other apps on time?
[17:54] <mhb> DaSkreech: the python-kde ones are easy, but Adept? I dunno.
[17:54] <mhb> well I hafta go, see you later
[17:55] <DaSkreech> byea
[17:58] <Tonio_> hi there ;)
[17:58] <jpatrick> hi Tonio_
[17:58] <Tonio_> Riddell: congrats for the marvellous gutsy release ;)
[17:59] <Tonio_> Riddell: best kubuntu out there from far
[17:59] <Tonio_> s/from/soi
[17:59] <Tonio_> hey jpatrick
[18:00] <jpatrick> DaSkreech: kde4 will be in hardy but not by default
[18:00] <Tonio_> Riddell: btw I'm still a bit concerned by dolphin bugs and strigi..... we have to take care of those for hardy, really
[18:01] <ScottK> Not to mentione gutsy-updates
[18:01] <Tonio_> Riddell: still working on kio-apt on my own, adept's integration is mostly done, next step is the compatibility with gnome protocol
[18:01] <DaSkreech> jpatrick: yes but not supported as well
[18:01] <DaSkreech> Oh can I reinstall strigi?
[18:17] <yaccin> there was a feature removed from kopete, which was in feisty but is missing in gutsy
[18:18] <jpatrick> yaccin: could you be a bit more specific?
[18:18] <Riddell> connecting to MSN :)
[18:19] <yaccin> in feisty (and bevore feisty) there was a option to hide the scrollbar in the contactlist, that option is gone
[18:19] <yaccin> i dont NEED msn :P
[18:19] <Riddell> why would you want to hide a scrollbar?  I'd suspect it was removed on ground of sillyness
[18:20] <Riddell> however #kopete would be the channel to ask
[18:20] <Riddell> Tonio_: adept integration?
[18:20] <Riddell> Tonio_: you should talk to mvo if he has any plans for it, there's a one click install spec at UDS I note
[18:21] <yaccin> because it looks better without
[18:21] <yaccin> and you could still scroll with your mousewheel :)
[18:21] <yaccin> ok so i got from #klubuntu to #kubuntu-dev to #kopete -_-
[18:21] <DaSkreech> :-)(
[18:22] <DaSkreech> i was going to send you to kopete first but you said it wa a patch
[18:22] <yaccin> i dont know if it is
[18:23] <yaccin> but i think so
[18:24] <yaccin> i hoped it would be fixed till final release...
[18:25] <yaccin> but net time i find something like that i really try to file a bug report
[18:25] <DaSkreech> thanks :)
[18:25] <yaccin> i would do that more often if it were easier
[18:30] <emilsedgh> that was the smooth scrolling option which is removed because it was using lots of power and was wasting battery, they did it after the powertop was intoduced
[18:31] <DaSkreech> !bugs
[18:31] <ubotu> If you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug report at: http://bugs.ubuntu.com/  -  Bugs in/wishes for the bots can be filed at http://launchpad.net/products/ubuntu-bots
[18:31] <DaSkreech> yaccin: ^^ how much easier do you want it ?
[18:32] <DaSkreech> emilsedgh: Right I rmeember that now! Was waking the CPU every second as long as Kopete was up or something like that
[18:32] <emilsedgh> DaSkreech: i loved it! i hope one of the styles will have this feature again
[18:33] <DaSkreech> emilsedgh: That doesn't murder laptops
[18:34] <emilsedgh> DaSkreech: ...ah i cant wait to see Kopete+Decibel in action...
[18:35] <DaSkreech> 4.1 :)
[18:35] <yaccin> DaSkreech: im not always sure in which category, etc... and i have to register first -_-
[18:37] <emilsedgh> DaSkreech: no, 4.2 :(
[18:38] <yaccin> how can i make my own cursor theme?
[18:49] <WaltzingAlong> yaccin: maybe start with modifying an existing one?
[18:53] <yaccin> WaltzingAlong: i need a better tool to convert .cur and .ani files to png images first
[18:53] <yaccin> the one i have sucks :D
[18:59] <WaltzingAlong> which one are you using?
[19:00] <marseillai> Riddell: i don't know if you are aware about this but kdelibs4c2a-0ubuntu3 remove kdelibs4-dev
[19:01] <Riddell> marseillai: installed from where?
[19:01] <marseillai> i took it on planet - kde and install it with gdebi
[19:01] <yaccin> WaltzingAlong: some strang windows programm
[19:02] <marseillai> sudo apt-get install kdelibs4-dev return this error : kdelibs4-dev: Dépend: kdelibs4c2a (= 4:3.5.8-0ubuntu2) mais 4:3.5.8-0ubuntu3 devra être installé
[19:03] <yaccin> but maybe ill redo them as svg-images :)
[19:03] <yaccin> would be a lot of work but its worth it :)
[19:11] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Is there a roadmap to get adept to KDE4 ?
[19:12] <Riddell> DaSkreech: not as such
[19:12] <DaSkreech> hmm
[19:13] <DaSkreech> I'm thinking thats a fly in the Ship KDE4buntu ointment
[19:15] <yaccin> WaltzingAlong: do you know such a tool?
[19:19] <nosrednaekim> DaSkreech: whats wrong with a qt3 app in qt4?
[19:20] <DaSkreech> Nothing fundamental :)
[19:20] <nosrednaekim> I just tried out KDE4... its definately improving in stability :)
[19:20] <nosrednaekim> and its usingalmost NO system resources
[19:21] <jpatrick> good good, just as it should be
[19:23] <DaSkreech> nosrednaekim: That's not good
[19:23] <DaSkreech> I put it on my system to make use of those resources
[19:23] <DaSkreech>  lazy ass software.. work!!!
[19:23] <nosrednaekim> yup :)
[19:23] <OpenSorce> okay folks.....this isn't flamebait just a heads up: I'm starting my review of 7.10's fitness for brand new users entitled "Kufailure: a review of Kubuntu 7.10" I'm sorry it worked out like this :-(
[19:24] <rami> i dont know how to upgrade:( help please????
[19:24] <nosrednaekim> whats not?
[19:25] <nosrednaekim> haha
[19:27] <stdin> rami: support in #kubuntu
[19:36] <yaccin> WaltzingAlong: now i have nice png images :)
[19:36] <yaccin> and i found a program to make a cursor theme but it doesnt work :(
[19:43]  * jpatrick looks at his kubuntu installing: "kernel panic"
[19:48] <jpatrick> ah, failed chunk problem
[20:00] <stdin> Riddell: the version of adept in -proposed now shows "Version Upgrade" after I click "Fetch Updates", seem the fix is good :)
[20:01] <stdin> (feisty)
[20:02] <DaSkreech> Should the changelog in adept be the one for Ubuntu?
[20:15] <Riddell> stdin: phew
[20:15] <Riddell> DaSkreech: which changelog?
[20:16] <DaSkreech> Hit the version upgrade button it says something you click next it grabs a Relelase notes /changelog
[20:16] <DaSkreech> Which is apparently for Ubuntu
[20:16] <Riddell> yes
[20:17] <DaSkreech> no plans for a Kubuntu one?
[20:17] <DaSkreech> Though that might be hard to engineer
[20:17] <ScottK> DaSkreech: There's no such thing.
[20:17] <ScottK> It's all one repository.
[20:17] <DaSkreech> I realize as I speak
[20:19] <stdin> one note for the upgrade instructions, I do have to click "Fetch Updates" for the "Version Upgrade" button to appear after starting adept
[20:20] <DaSkreech> Yeah me too
[20:20] <gustavo> Hi, people. I'm trying to try KDE4, but I cannot see the K Menu. How can I fix that?
[20:21] <Riddell> DaSkreech: it's the same thing
[20:21] <DaSkreech> gustavo: doesn't exist ?
[20:21] <gustavo> no
[20:21] <Riddell> stdin: that's deliberate, didn't want it to connect to the internet without the user asking
[20:21] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Yeah I figured after I said it
[20:21] <Riddell> gustavo: there isn't one, maybe try compiling svn
[20:22] <DaSkreech> There isn't one in svn either I think
[20:22] <stdin> Riddell: the instructions need changing then, it just says to restart adept and click version upgrade
[20:23] <gustavo> Riddell, DaSkreech: Thank you very much, I think I'll try the next beta of KDE4. Cheers.
[20:24] <DaSkreech> gustavo: No press alt+f2 and test other stuff
[20:24] <DaSkreech> gustavo: Every tester helps :)
[20:25] <Riddell> stdin: done (pending cache)
[20:25] <stdin> groovy :)
[20:27] <oelewapp1rke> DaSkreech asked me to "report" here
[20:27] <oelewapp1rke> ;-p
[20:27] <oelewapp1rke> my live cd boots into a login screen
[20:27] <oelewapp1rke> doesn't show any users
[20:27] <oelewapp1rke> ctrl-alt-f1 shows a disclaimer about warranty and such more
[20:28] <oelewapp1rke> but no shell
[20:28] <oelewapp1rke> I'm running this on a packard bell mx31 laptop
[20:28] <gustavo> DaSkreech: Yes, I've already done so, but I have not seen something weird so far. I've been using Konqueror, Kview, among other and they work fine so far... I just would only be able to test the programs from time to time. I really want to help you, as I love KDE. See you later!
[20:29] <Riddell> oelewapp1rke: did you check the CD was valid?
[20:29] <oelewapp1rke> yep
[20:29] <oelewapp1rke> both the md5sum on the iso
[20:29] <oelewapp1rke> and the "check cd" boot option
[20:29] <oelewapp1rke> all gave OK status
[20:30] <DaSkreech> gustavo: groovy
[20:31] <Riddell> oelewapp1rke: look for logs in /var/log called casper and file a bug on casper with them attached
[20:31] <oelewapp1rke> how do I get to those logs ?
[20:31] <oelewapp1rke> I can't get to a shell
[20:33] <DaSkreech> Riddell: He can't login at all is the problem
[20:33] <DaSkreech> Unless he mounts the ISO and snoops through it
[20:33] <DaSkreech> I guess :)
[20:35] <oelewapp1rke> "snoop throught it" ? how do I do that ?
[20:37] <oelewapp1rke> DaSkreech ?
[20:40] <DaSkreech> oelewapp1rke: You'd have to mount the ISO then you can browse it but that doesn't help with /var/log
[20:43] <DaSkreech> damn
[20:43] <DaSkreech> the upgrade cancelled
[20:43] <oelewapp1rke> ah I got something on CTRL-ALT-F8
[20:43] <DaSkreech> a shell?
[20:43] <oelewapp1rke> sed: can't read /etc/X11/xorg.conf: No such file or directory
[20:44] <oelewapp1rke> /etc/rc2.d/S20powernowd: 156: cannot create /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0//cpufreq/scaling_governor: Directory nonexistent
[20:45] <oelewapp1rke> perhaps it doesn't recognize the cdrom drive ?
[20:46] <oelewapp1rke> clearly it has failed to mount some filesystem
[20:46] <oelewapp1rke> right ?
[20:47] <oelewapp1rke> I could do alt-printscreen-K to kill all processes except init and see where that gets me
[20:49] <oelewapp1rke> nowhere
[20:49] <oelewapp1rke> init is not starting a shell
[20:50] <manchicken_> Man, this is just painfully slow.
[20:50] <manchicken_> I'm averaging about 20kB/s from us.archive.ubuntu.com
[20:51] <oelewapp1rke> the kernel is stuck somewhere :-(
[20:51] <oelewapp1rke> fuck
[20:51] <oelewapp1rke> DaSkreech: are there any alternative kernels on the live cd ?
[21:18] <yaccin> i installed the patched kopete package because of the msn bug, now kopete doesnt connect to msn, jabber or icq
[21:21] <coreymon77> gutsy?
[21:21] <coreymon77> sweet!
[21:43] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: you there?
[21:43] <_StefanS_> Tonio_: I just noticed that some java applications have this wrong launch feedback behavior aswell
[21:50] <DaSkreech> Riddell: Should we have a known bugs page for Kubuntu 7.10 ?
[21:50] <nixternal> http://tinyurl.com/2gljnw  <- Ubuntu article w/ some Kubuntu pimpage
[21:54] <coreymon77> wow
[21:54] <coreymon77> the repos could sure stand to speed up a bit
[21:54] <DaSkreech> coreymon77: Riiigh
[21:55] <coreymon77> :P
[21:55] <mhb> evening
[21:55] <coreymon77> evening
[21:55] <DaSkreech> yo
[21:56] <coreymon77> ahh, the "new distro was just released" overload of the repos
[21:56] <DaSkreech> nixternal: Debian is the grandparent of All Linux distros? fascinating
[21:56] <DaSkreech> coreymon77: Well done astute detective :)
[21:56] <mhb> coreymon77: very surprising, is it?
[21:56] <nixternal> it pretty much is...can you think of a larger distro that was out before it?
[21:57] <coreymon77> i wasnt saying ahh as in, "ive figured it out now"
[21:57] <DaSkreech> Slackware is older
[21:58] <coreymon77> i was saying ahh as in, "same old same old" type of thing
[21:58] <mhb> coreymon77: don't worry, we got it :o) it was the "ahhh" in "ahh, christmas time" even though it is quite predictable :o)
[21:58] <coreymon77> i know
[21:58] <ScottK> nixternal: There were ones before it, althought few still exist.
[21:58] <ScottK> If Debian were the true father of them all, I don't think RPM would exist.
[21:59] <Irvine> Hi there. I got a very strange problem with LiveCD. After booting into X mode it asks me to logon. No guess what should I enter.. )))
[22:00] <Irvine> But the activity of thi CD drive points me to thoughts of a corrupted CD. Also, some messages like "unable to load theme" pop up from time to time
[22:01] <nixternal> ScottK: you know, you are right...iirc Slackware was the first "major" distro, and it is the only one prior to Debian that is still alive I think
[22:02] <DaSkreech> Irvine: Did you do a integrity test ?
[22:03] <ScottK> DaSkreech: Are you afraid he isn't honest enough to run Kubuntu?
[22:03] <Irvine> Yep. The iso matches MD5
[22:04] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Who?
[22:04] <Irvine> Me, I guess..
[22:04] <ScottK> You wanted to know if Irvine had taken an integrity test.
[22:04] <DaSkreech> Irvine: No an integrity test of the burn
[22:04] <ScottK> DaSkreech: But it was funnier my way.
[22:04] <DaSkreech> when you boot you can test the  cd see if that passes
[22:05] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Ah there was some discussion earlier about Kevin I was wondering if that was coming back
[22:05] <ScottK> Oh.  I've no idea what that's even about.  Who's Kevin?
[22:06] <Irvine> wow.. i got it. the problem is with the RAM module. Memtest rulez. (pattern 0f0f0f0f)
[22:06] <Irvine> thanks, anyway
[22:07] <coreymon77> oh and btw, i never knew contributions on launchpad contributed to how many shippit options you have
[22:07] <coreymon77> i was pleasantly suprised when i saw that just now
[22:08] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Carmony from Linspire
[22:08] <ScottK> Oh.  That.
[22:09] <coreymon77> if this kind of repository load is expected when a new release comes out
[22:09] <ScottK> "Hi, I made a deal with the devil and then quit.  But that's in the past.  I think FOSS is actually a good idea now." - That one.
[22:09] <coreymon77> why arent the repos made to be able to handle it
[22:09] <coreymon77> ?
[22:10] <ryanakca> weee! congrats guys :)
[22:12]  * ryanakca goes back to CSSing
[22:54] <DaSkreech> A fair number of peopel are having noting happen when the click close to bring up the upgrade tool
[22:58] <ScottK> DaSkreech: Ones that have upgraded to Gutsy already (I've invalid'ed a few bugs already from people that didn't understand they were already upgraded)?
[22:59] <DaSkreech> ScottK: Umm Hmm never checked that
[22:59] <DaSkreech> In anycase I'm on gutsy and the upgrade tool opens for me
[23:00] <ScottK> Right, but it shouldn't actually upgrade anything.  Essentially it sees you have the devel release that's changed state, fires up and discovers you're up to date.  This is, I think normal.
[23:19] <DaSkreech> Which reminds me kdesudo needs to be patched
[23:21] <_StefanS_> DaSkreech: for what?
[23:22] <DaSkreech> It allows any app to be open as long as one app is open that uses kdesudo
[23:22] <DaSkreech> That's not cool
[23:22]  * nosrednaekim hides from this argument
[23:23] <ryanakca> woah... can someone with admin/write access update http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php#latest ? the DVD bittorrent link still points to dapper... eegad!
[23:23] <ryanakca> DaSkreech: not at all :( ... so kdesudo doesn't have a timer/use the same configs as sudo does?
[23:24] <DaSkreech> ryanakca: from what I understand the timer is from the last time a rootjr app is closed
[23:26] <ryanakca> wierd... I would've written it to start from when the password is typed in.
[23:26] <ryanakca> Oh well, I guess that's what your patching it for :)
[23:26] <ryanakca> btw, the bittorrent link should be http://torrent.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/gutsy/release/dvd/
[23:26] <_StefanS_> I think it behaves much like the sudo timeout-wise....
[23:27] <_StefanS_> it uses sudo behind the scenes anyway
[23:27] <ryanakca> hmmm.... no likecd torrents? http://torrent.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/gutsy/release/ only has dvd :(
[23:27] <ryanakca> _StefanS_: yeah... hmm.
[23:27] <ryanakca> *shrugs*
[23:30] <ryanakca> oh, nevermind about the no torrents for desktop cds... some servers have them, others don't, just that it's not listed on torrent.u.c
[23:30] <ryanakca> And... none of download.php (from what I've seen) has been updated to gutsy