=== kiko is now known as kiko-zzz
ubotuNew bug: #153762 in launchpad "python-medusa missing from developer dependencies" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15376200:36
ubotuNew bug: #153763 in launchpad "we should never do bug redirects to disabled products" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15376300:41
robhello, I was wondering if it is possible to take over the username of an inactive user?00:43
robguess it's a bit of a bad time :(01:02
mptrob, you can make a request for it01:05
kiko-zzzrob, which user.01:57
=== RAOF_ is now known as RAOF
robkiko-zzz, either rob or robert02:45
kiko-zzzrob, what's your user?02:48
kiko-zzzrob, both of them have validated email addresses, though02:49
kiko-zzzrob, you should contact them to see if they are willing to give up their names for you. if so, let me know.02:49
kiko-zzzzzz now for real02:49
=== pitoow is now known as pitoow_zZz
=== rob is now known as robii
=== robii is now known as rob
RotundCould I get some basic info about the tech behind launchpad?04:15
RotundAnyone here with knowledge of what is behind the scenes?04:17
poolie_Rotund, what kind of thing in particular04:27
Rotundit's twisted under the hood, right?04:28
RotundIncluding the web interface?04:28
RotundWhat templating engine is used?04:28
poolie_well, it's zope04:29
RotundThe web interface or the whole thing/04:29
spivhttps://help.launchpad.net/FAQ#head-34295746b9c12bbe42eee4a9bd5e2656306fd796 mentions some of the libraries its built on.04:30
RotundInteresting.  So, what parts of Twisted?04:31
spivBits and pieces.  The SFTP/bzr+ssh server at bazaar.launchpad.net, the "librarian" web server, an internal XML-RPC server, and some other internal systems.04:34
RotundOkay, what about the web interface?  is that Zope or Nevow or something else?04:36
spivIt's Zope 3.  (You can see that it's Zope by looking at the Server and X-Powered-By headers in the HTTP responses)04:38
Rotundahhh.  I just looked at the HTML04:40
* spiv -> lunch04:40
Rotundexcellent.  just wanted a bird's eye view.  thanks04:40
imbrandonsomeone mind confirming and looking at bug #15379805:04
ubotuLaunchpad bug 153798 in launchpad "canonical partner repo packages showing as "in ubuntu"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15379805:04
ubotuNew bug: #153798 in launchpad "canonical partner repo packages showing as "in ubuntu"" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15379805:05
=== poolie_ is now known as poolie
=== carlos_ is now known as carlos
=== Fujitsu is now known as Fujitsu_
=== Seveaz is now known as Seveas
=== tonyy is now known as tonyyarusso
=== mwh_ is now known as mwh
bostikhi all12:20
bostikon launchpad there is no trace of our mirror12:21
bostikit's uptodate since yesterday12:22
bostiki'm talking of ubuntu mirror12:22
salgadohi bostik12:23
salgadobostik, what is your mirror's name?12:23
bostikubuntu.fastbull.org from italy12:24
salgadobostik, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/ubuntu.fastbull.org-release12:26
salgadobostik, looks like some files were missing when it was last checked (2h ago)12:27
=== kiko-zzz is now known as kiko
bostiksalgado, last update 13.01 CET12:32
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
=== mrevell-lunch is now known as mrevell
ubotuNew bug: #153884 in rosetta "Translation import queue needs better validation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15388413:50
ubotuNew bug: #153885 in soyuz "Refactor source and binary publishing presentation templates in a single macro" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15388513:50
ubotuNew bug: #153891 in launchpad-bazaar "branch listings can be sorted by invisible quantities" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15389114:05
ubotuNew bug: #153894 in launchpad-bazaar "two styles of sorting on one page branch listings probably confusing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15389414:17
warsocketHey, if i register a project as blueprint, must i program it all by myself is it possible that someone jumps in and helps14:22
warsocketcause I think i have a good idea but im not sure i can complete it all by myself14:23
ubotuNew bug: #153901 in launchpad "OOPS registering attendance in a sprint with year before 1900" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15390114:25
mrevellhi warsocket14:30
mrevellwarsocket: If you register a blueprint in Launchpad, any other Launchpad user can become involved. You can even assign people to work on the blueprint.14:31
lamontcprov: is there any way from the LP UI (looking at build records, especially failed records) to say "please eliminate the records for any superseded source"?14:52
cprovlamont: no, they are eliminated only when they reach dispatcher (i.e, on-the-fly, not by batches) and since gutsy was released they won't be considered by dispatched and will remain in pending state (hint: it's a problem)14:54
lamontcprov: and manually deleting them will just be undone when the queue-builder fix hits production, eh?14:55
lamontmy question wasn't really hppa/gutsy related...14:55
lamontwhen I pull up the list of failed-to-build packages, I don't really care about earlier versions: I only want to see things where the current version is FTBFS14:56
cprovlamont: no, failed build from old versions will remain as 'history', we do not provide a proper FTBFS list yet14:57
lamontcprov: right.  they need to remain as history.  I just want the option to filter records for superseded source.14:57
lamontso I'll file a wishlist bug14:57
cprovlamont: yup.14:59
=== danilo_ is now known as danilos
lamontnew question.  if the dispatcher strips any needs-build records and doesn't dispatch them for gutsy now, then I think I have another wishlist bug that says "please mark such records as failed, reason="stable release, no way (or some such)", rather than leaving the queue polluted with records that'll never go anywhere15:00
SteveAWelcome to this week's Lauchpad development meeting!15:01
=== pitoow_zZz is now known as pitoow_WAY
=== pitoow_WAY is now known as pitoow_AWAY
SteveAFor the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating and reporting on Launchpad development. 15:01
lamontwhich gets back to the base question of "will all those gutsy/hppa build records go away, or hang out" (if so, please make 'em all priority -1 in sql. kthxbye.)15:01
SteveAWho is here today?15:01
lamontoops. meeting.15:01
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=== babc is now known as bac
bigjoolsme, but I am ill so may not stay15:01
jskme (but may experience intermittent disconnection)15:03
SteveAapologies (according to the meeting page)15:04
SteveA== Apologies ==15:04
SteveA * adeuring15:04
SteveA * bac15:04
SteveA * jamesh15:04
SteveA * kiko15:04
SteveA * ddaa15:04
SteveA * stub15:04
SteveA 15:04
SteveAobviously some of these are incorrect15:04
ddaathat was lastweek15:04
kikoI'm not apologizing15:04
kikothat was last week15:04
SteveA== Agenda ==15:04
SteveA * Roll call15:04
SteveA * Agenda15:04
SteveA * Next meeting15:04
SteveA * Actions from last meeting15:04
mptDid I forget to update it?15:04
Schnitzis it just a question of time when i can upload packages to my ppa using hardy as distro?15:04
SteveA * Oops report (Matsubara)15:04
SteveA * Critical Bugs (Rinchen)15:04
SteveA * Bug tags15:04
SteveA * Operations report (mthaddon)15:04
SteveA * DBA report (stub)15:04
SteveA * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)15:05
SteveA * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)15:05
SteveA * starred reviews - barry15:05
SteveA * postgres shared memory - flacoste15:05
SteveA (other items)15:05
SteveA * Blockers15:05
SteveA 15:05
SteveA * Next meeting15:05
SteveAsame time next week15:05
SteveAAnyone know that they will be away?15:05
gmbI won't be here next week.15:06
kikoSchnitz, yes, a question of time. probably 1-2 weeks15:06
SteveA * OOPS report : matsubara 15:06
matsubaraToday's oops report is about bugs 153884, 15390115:06
ubotuLaunchpad bug 153884 in rosetta "Translation import queue needs better validation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15388415:06
ubotuLaunchpad bug 153901 in launchpad "OOPS registering attendance in a sprint with year before 1900" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15390115:06
matsubaracarlos, bug 153884 is the one we discussed yesterday. I couldn't trigger it in15:07
matsubarathe exact same way you did in production, but it's a start. Can you take that one?15:07
carlosSteveA: jtv, danilos and I will be in a sprint, although I guess we will be able to attend the meeting as usual15:07
matsubarajsk, are you the right person to take 153901?15:07
carlosmatsubara: sure15:07
matsubaracarlos: thanks. I have some other test cases that trigger a bug in that page. I'll add it to the bug report.15:08
intellectronicajsk, matsubara: isn't that already covered by work the jsk started on date formatting?15:08
carlosmatsubara: ok, thank you. That form needs a lot of love so that's really helpful15:08
matsubaraintellectronica: I think it might be covered by bug 13941315:08
ubotuBug 139413 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/139413 is private15:08
kikocarlos, it's very easy to cause that page to OOPS, btw.15:09
matsubaraintellectronica: there's also bug 134063 but that's not in progress...15:09
ubotuLaunchpad bug 134063 in launchpad "OOPS registering sprint or meeting using date format DD-M-YYYY" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13406315:09
jsk____intellectronica: possibly - I was offline for a moment there.15:09
mpt... I won't be here next week. (Sorry, just realized.)15:10
matsubarajsk____: do you think you'll fix 139413 soon?15:10
kikoSteveA, move on.15:10
SteveAkiko: why?15:11
jsk____intellectronica, matsubara: this is primarily related to bug 13936015:11
ubotuLaunchpad bug 139360 in launchpad "DateTimeParser fails silently for certain inputs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/13936015:11
SteveAmatsubara: are you done?15:11
matsubarajsk____: ah so you need a upstream fixed15:11
matsubaraSteveA: not yet15:11
jsk____matsubara: yes this is related to an upstream bug.15:11
kikoSteveA, because this can be resolved privately.15:11
kikothe oops has been raised already15:11
kiko(and it's not a very common oops)15:12
matsubarajsk____: ok then. thanks15:12
matsubaraSteveA: ok, back to you.15:12
jsk____matsubara: welcome.15:12
SteveAthanks matsubara 15:12
SteveA* Actions from last meeting15:12
SteveAmrevell to report a bug about "ubuntero", etc.15:12
mrevellYes, that's done it is bug number15:12
SteveA* #15:13
SteveA* Critical Bugs (Rinchen)15:13
mrevellmislaid number15:13
mrevellwill report to list15:13
RinchenHi, Two bugs have been resolved and cherrypicked: Bug #147633 and Bug #148147.   One bug remains on the list and that's Bug #150988.  cprov, what's the current status on this? Please update the bug report too.  SteveA, I've replied to you moments ago via email about bug #8618515:13
ubotuBug 147633 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/147633 is private15:13
ubotuBug 148147 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/148147 is private15:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 150988 in soyuz "queue-builder failing due duplicated entries in the DB" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/150988 - Assigned to Celso Providelo (cprov)15:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 86185 in launchpad "Librarian should log OOPS reports" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8618515:13
cprovme (sorry, was distracted with a code review)15:15
cprovRinchen: 1.1.10 code will cope with the problem pointed in 15098815:15
Rinchenso we're targeting next week's roll-out for resolution then.15:16
cprovRinchen: I didn't have time to work on the DB cleanup patch yet, but since we *can* live with the broken data, I think the bug should be demoted to 'high'15:17
kikocprov, won't the broken data cause the constraint to not apply?15:17
kikocprov, and isn't the broken data causing OOPSes too?15:17
cprovkiko: right, the broken data in gutsy-* will block the constraint15:18
kikocprov, it needs fixing asap.15:18
cprovkiko: but I don't think they are causing any OOPSes15:18
kikocprov, the "lastscore" oopses?15:18
cprovkiko: yes, if people hit 'retry' on the duplicated build :(15:19
kikoso let's fix the damned builds. don't we have a script that does this already?15:20
Rinchenkiko, do you have some time later today to work this a bit further with cprov (in the interest of meeting time)?15:20
cprovkiko: partially, because we can't remove stuff published in gutsy 15:20
cprovkiko: we have to tweak the SQL generated by the script manually15:21
cprovkiko: right, let's sort this together, but we need a DBA (postgres access to jubany).15:22
RinchenThanks cprov 15:22
RinchenSteveA, over to you.15:23
SteveAthanks Rinchen 15:23
SteveA * Bug tags15:23
SteveAthere is one bug tag proposed today15:23
SteveAbugs related to the launchpad*-dependencies packages in Ubuntu15:23
SteveAhowever, the bug examples aren't linked15:24
SteveAso I can't easily look them up15:24
=== Fujitsu_ is now known as Fujitsu
flacostewhy not something about lp-deps15:24
flacostesorry, lp-debs15:24
SteveAI'm defering this until later in the meeting15:24
flacosteor lp-packaging15:24
SteveAkiko: please make the links15:24
SteveA * Operations report (mthaddon)15:24
flacostesince we might have other LP related packages in the future (for API stuff)15:24
mthaddonIssues with PostgreSQL and escalation which SteveA has discussed on the list15:24
mthaddonWorking on codehosting staging setup and feeds staging setup15:24
mthaddonLots of cricket work over the last week - also in the process of migrating cricket to a new server to take load off asuka15:24
mthaddonThat's it from me unless there are any question15:24
SteveAthanks mthaddon 15:25
SteveA * DBA report (stub)15:25
stubAt about 13:50 UTC either something chewed up way too much shared memory15:25
stubresources on the Production DB or we ran out of locks. Restarting the15:25
stubappservers and authserver appears to have fixed the issue, which indicates15:25
stubit was either an appserver or the authserver chewing up the shared resources.15:25
stubI'll increase the suggested tuning parameter next rollout, but we have no15:25
stubway of knowing the actual cause or if we will ever see it again. Given the15:25
stubcodebase has been reasonably static as has the database there is a good15:25
stubchance we will never see it again - just a one off glitch causing an15:25
stubI don't know how long the outage was for or if it 'ramped up' to a15:26
stubfull on outage or switched from working to not working quickly. As far as15:26
stubI am aware it was a single outage rather than an ongoing problem.15:26
stubIf you have approved branches with db patches land em.15:26
stubI'm on leave tomorrow, back on Wednesday. I'll probably be around tomorrow15:26
stubduring the day.15:26
SteveAstub: was the database restarted?15:26
SteveAstub: was the shared memory max increased?15:27
stubNot that I am aware of. And no mem changes have been made (they require a restart)15:27
SteveAstub: please send a message to the launchpad list in future when we have any kind of database issue that causes failing pages15:27
stubOr if you mean the linux max, I don't know.15:27
mthaddonDB wasn't restarted as far as I know either15:27
SteveA * Sysadmin requests (Rinchen)15:28
RinchenHi! Is anyone blocked on an RT or have any that are becoming urgent? flacoste, did someone respond with the email information?15:28
Rinchenand yes, barry, I'll remind elmo today :-)15:28
flacosteRinchen: no15:28
barryRinchen: thanks!15:28
RinchenThanks flacoste.  15:28
jtvRinchen: #2913415:29
kikoSteveA, you are pretty good at skipping /my/ topics, hmmm.15:29
RinchenWho is the correct person to advise flacoste about how to access the incoming staging email pop?15:29
SteveAkiko: what topic is that?15:29
kikoSteveA, the proposed bug tag. it was just a matter of outputting the bug numbers here and getting them linkified!15:29
SteveAkiko: yep, so we'll come back to it later in the meeting.  defered to later in this meeting, not skipped.15:29
kikoRinchen, matsubara would know -- didn't he email people about this a while back?15:29
Rinchenflacoste, worst case I can have IS reset the pw on it and have them provide you that info.  I would assume it was a config value.  mthaddon ?15:30
mthaddonRinchen, incoming mail is configured on staging - what access does flacoste need?15:30
matsubaraRinchen, kiko, flacoste: I have access only to the outgoing mailbox15:30
flacostemthaddon: the credentials so that process-mail.py can access the POP mailbox where these email ends up15:30
mthaddonflacoste, it's already working and in place15:30
flacosteincoming email that is15:30
flacostemthaddon: do they end up at the same place that the /outgoing/ ones go?15:31
Rinchenjtv, got it, thanks.15:31
mthaddonflacoste, there's a config file in the directory above where RF sits on staging that defines how to connect to the incoming mail box15:31
flacostemthaddon: ok, thanks!15:31
flacosteRinchen: case close15:32
Rinchenflacoste, mthaddon - thanks15:32
Rinchenjtv,  elmo the good man he is, raised your ticket and assigned it earlier today so you can expect it soonish15:32
RinchenSteveA, back to you15:32
SteveAkiko: please make the examples links.  that way, they're available and convenient for people to look at ahead of time, not at the last minute in this meeting.15:32
SteveAthanks Rinchen 15:32
jtvRinchen, elmo: thanks15:32
SteveA * A top user-affecting issue (mrevell)15:32
mrevellIn the "User deletion" thread on the launchpad-users list, Cesare Falco15:32
mrevellraises bug 87326.15:32
ubotuLaunchpad bug 87326 in soyuz "Support PPA Renaming and Reassignment" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/8732615:32
kikoSteveA, jesus christ, it's just 4 bugs requesting packaging stuff into lp-dependencies15:32
mrevellWhen changing his Launchpad username,15:33
mrevellCesare's PPA remained under his15:33
mrevellprevious Launchpad username.15:33
mrevellI'll send a mail to the launchpad-users list to kick of a discussion.15:33
mrevellThank you and back to you SteveA.15:33
mrevellApologies for odd formatting.15:33
mptI thought we didn't allow people to change their Launchpad ID for precisely that reason.15:33
kikompt, we do allow them to change it.15:33
SteveAwe do allow people to change their id15:33
mptMaybe I'm confusing that with project IDs15:34
SteveAhowever, we have discussed the idea that there are certain things you do15:34
SteveAthat mean you can no longer change your id after doing those things15:34
kikobug #14104615:34
ubotuLaunchpad bug 141046 in launchpad "lp-dependencies missing ssh" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/141046 - Assigned to Guilherme Salgado (salgado)15:34
SteveAwe need to think about how to warn people about this, and how all that would work15:34
SteveAI think some forum software or whatever allows people one name change shortly after joining15:35
RinchenSteveA, or perhaps would should let them but with a warning. 15:35
SteveAI've seen that kind of thing before15:35
SteveA * starred reviews - barry15:35
barryI sent an email to launchpad@ about starred review status, please read and let15:35
barryme know if you have any questions.  In summary: if your branch is being15:35
barryreviewed by a mentored reviwer (a.k.a. recruit) your review status will have a15:35
barrystar until it is approved by that reviewer's mentor.  You are not allowed to15:35
barrycommit any branch that is still starred.15:35
barryOnce the mentor approves the review, your reviewer will remove the star and15:36
barrythen you can act on the status (e.g. commit if it's approved).  Any status can15:36
barrybe starred, and when you respond to a needs-reply* branch, please keep the15:36
barrystar when you move it to needs-review*.15:36
cprovRinchen: if we allow them to change a PPA directory will remain lost 15:36
SteveAthanks barry15:37
SteveA * postgres shared memory - flacoste15:37
cprovRinchen: I meant, a warning won't solve the issue, we should either deny changes or support them properly.15:37
SteveAactually, that's my item15:37
flacoste(If you aren't aware of it, go reat the 'Critical issue...' threads on15:37
flacostethe LP mailing list.)15:37
carlosbarry: btw, pendingreviews page needs to be updated to handle needs-mentoring status, or does it disappear with the * flag?15:37
flacosteThe DB is running out of shared memory causing transactions in many different15:37
SteveAI just put flacoste's name on it because he's taking it forward :-)15:37
flacosteparts of LP to fail.15:37
flacosteWe have two suspects:15:37
flacoste- recent use introduction of usage of TEMP table in Translations code.15:37
flacoste- increase usage of authserver and/or Librarian.15:37
flacosteThe more of think of it, the more I'm pretty sure it's the changes to use15:37
flacosteSQLObject in the authserver that is the problem.15:38
flacosteThese changes were merged on 2007-07-3, so well after the last Ubuntu release.15:38
flacosteEach Ubuntu release brings a spike in usage on the wiki, so it makes sense15:38
flacostethat we are only seeing this now.15:38
flacosteTemporary solution: revert the authserver to the old version not using15:38
flacosteSQLObject. But since there were later changes to the authserver for Code15:38
flacostestuff, that may not be practical.15:38
flacostePermanent solution would be to fix bug #140817.15:38
flacostesorry, well, i prepared something :-)15:38
ubotuLaunchpad bug 140817 in launchpad "The librarian reconnects too often (and takes too long to do so)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/140817 - Assigned to Francis J. Lacoste (flacoste)15:38
barrycarlos: bjornt is looking at issues related to pending-reviews and the new star flag15:38
SteveAflacoste: thanks15:39
SteveA * Blockers15:39
flacosteFoundations team: not blocked15:39
SteveASC: not blocked15:39
jtvTranslations team: Not blocked.  We wish.15:39
RinchenReleases Team: Not Blocked.15:40
BjornTBugs team: not blocked15:40
bigjoolssoyuz: not blocked15:40
ddaaCode: not blocked15:40
Rinchenflacoste is my hero.15:40
RinchenFor today at least :-)15:40
SteveAand coming back to the bug tags...15:41
SteveAfor the proposed tag 'lpdeps', the heading and bugs are not linked, making it inconvenient for readers to see what bugs are refered to15:42
SteveAeven so, I think this is better done with a Product15:42
SteveAas it's not launchpad code we're talking about, but packages for use by developers and installation on servers15:42
SteveAso, I think we should use a launchpad-dependencies Project for this instead15:42
SteveAkiko: you proposed the tag.  comments?15:43
salgado+1 for the Project15:43
kikoSteveA, I'm fine with a separate project; it sounds more correct to me tbh.15:44
kikothe only reason I proposed a tag was to be less controversial15:44
kikobut having it be a project will allow us to use Packaging links correctly too15:44
kikosince these are included in Ubuntu15:44
kikomy /only/ question is15:44
kikowhy don't we just use the Ubuntu packages to manage these bugs? it appears that that is frowned upon15:45
SteveAwhich ubuntu packages?15:45
kikoas Salgado commented in one of the bugs I looked at yesterday15:45
SteveAthose were in dapper iirc15:45
SteveAby mistake15:45
statikCollaborative Commerce: not blocked (sorry for the delay there)15:45
flacosteisn't because they are published from another APT archive?15:45
salgadokiko, they don't really exist in Ubuntu15:45
SteveAso, basically, they are not in ubuntu in any meaningful sense15:46
SteveAwe could put them in a PPA15:46
kikothey aren't?15:46
kikookay let me shut up then.15:46
SteveAthey were in once, but it was a mistake15:46
mptThat may be related to the recently-reported bug about "partner" appearing as an Ubuntu pocket15:46
kikoa separate project is fine, I'll move the bugs across.15:46
SteveAso they were removed again15:46
SteveAso, 'lpdeps' as a bug tag is rejected in favour of using a Project15:46
SteveAI'd like us to use PPA for these, if possible, in the future15:47
SteveAdogfooding and all that15:47
SteveAok, that's all folks15:47
SteveAthanks for being here and keeping the meeting productive15:47
flacostewe can't report bugs against packages in PPAs yet?15:47
flacostethat would be a cool feature!15:47
kikoflacoste, we can't no. and that's a scary question. :)15:47
kikoflacoste, talk to sabdfl. kthxbye :)15:47
flacosteeach PPAs becoming a mini-distribution :-)15:47
ScottKflacoste: Please, $DEITY, no.15:47
ScottKkiko: I'm around if you want to discuss the pyspf upstream info you mentioned yesterday (or the day before).15:48
flacostei'm sure Mark would like the idea...15:48
* mpt tries to imagine the navigation that would involve15:48
mptTranslations for PPAs? Questions for PPAs?15:48
flacosteso maybe I shouldn't talk about it then15:48
* ScottK tries to imagine the nightmare for but triagers.15:48
gmbIgnore me.15:48
kikoScottK! Let me get off the phone :)15:48
ScottKkiko: No rush.15:48
=== mrevell changed the topic of #launchpad to: https://launchpad.net | Next developer meeting: Thu 25 Oct 2007, 1400UTC | List: launchpad-users@lists.canonical.com | Support: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad | Help: https://help.launchpad.net | Channel logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/
Rinchenflacoste, you mean micro-distribution right? ;-)15:49
flacosteRinchen: you get to pick the name15:50
RinchenLaunchpad Outstanding User-created Distribution15:51
* Rinchen toddles off to do real work.15:51
sabdflflacoste: we are SO going to have to solve that15:54
sabdflbecause sooner, rather than later, bugs will start to show up against Ubuntu for PPA packages :-)15:54
flacostesabdlf: i knew you would like the idea!15:54
sabdflin my ideal world, apport / bugbuddy / whatevertool would know that a package was installed from a PPA and file it in the right place15:55
sabdflit's just that we don't currently know what "the right place" is :-)15:55
* ScottK would like "right" to be somewhere where Ubuntu bug triagers never have to deal with it.15:56
lamontScottK: until it's flagged as also affecting ubuntu15:56
ScottKlamont: If it's in a PPA, by definition it doesn't.15:57
lamontcprov: so - about my question from right at the meeting start... got a couple minutes to chat?15:57
lamontScottK: it's possible that I'm encountering a bug in the part of the package that wasn't changed in stuffing it into the ppa15:57
=== matsubara is now known as matsubara-lunch
ScottKlamont: Then go test against a real package and file against that.15:58
lamontjust because I find a bug in an ubuntu package with a -ubuntuN suffix in the version doesn't mean that it doesn't affect debian15:58
lamontah, I'd rather they just marked the bug as also-affects.15:58
ScottKTrue, but it takes some figuring by someone who (usually) knows more than the bug reporter to know.15:59
cprovlamont: can't it wait 30 min ? I need some food ;)15:59
lamontthen again, I'd like to be able to say that a bug also-affects debian, and have LP deal with the mechanics of filing said bug for me if it's not already there.15:59
lamontcprov: sure15:59
lamontpoke me15:59
=== cprov is now known as cprov-lunch
lamontScottK: then again, having LP file bugs against debian or other upstream begins to enter the political space15:59
ScottKlamont: Exactly.15:59
lamontScottK: and since ubuntu is apolitical (esp wrt our derivatives?), we shouldn't mind the 'also-affects' activity16:00
ScottKlamont: You may not.  I certainly do.  All the also affects baltix bugs in backports drive me nuts.  How can a request to backport to Ubuntu Feisty affect baltix?16:01
lamontbecause baltix is planning to do a feisty.7 release? :-)16:02
lamontor is derived from feisty-backports? (*phear*)16:02
ScottKI have no idea, but feisty-backports is a project about backporting to a specific Ubuntu release.  Baltix should deal with their own problems and not spam me with their bugmail.16:04
ubotuNew bug: #153934 in launchpad "Ubuntero status shouldn't appear on everyone's profile page" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15393416:05
lamontScottK: ah... that's a different issue.  LP shouldn't be sending you also-affects email, I expect16:10
lamontor you should be able to tell it not to16:10
ScottKlamont: You're either subscribed to the bug or not AFAIK16:10
lamontgrumble.  I see your point16:11
lamontalso-affects (in my mind anyway) wants to be a very light weight clone of the bug16:11
ScottKlamont: That'd be different, but that's not the LP we have today.16:13
lamontright.  iz bug. :-)16:14
ScottKOK.  Get them to fix that, then we'll talk.16:14
lamontOTOH, procmail is love16:14
ScottKSure, I could filter out irrelevanceies, but I shouldn't have to be bothered.16:15
lamontyou should file a bug that says 'also affects' should not generate mail, maybe16:15
seb128does anybody if it's possible to have a bot displaying all the commits to a launchpad team archive on IRC?16:17
pochucan't ubotu do that?16:17
pochulamont, ScottK: I think Also Affects should generate mail. If I have a bug in a package, and it also affects upstream, for example, I'd really like to know what upstream thinks about it.16:18
ScottKpochu: Then subscribe to that too.16:18
pochulamont, ScottK: Also, how would you know a comment is reported against feisty-backports, or against baltix?16:19
pochuScottK: hmm, that might have sense...16:19
ScottKWell currently you don't16:19
ScottKThat's another part of the problem.16:19
lamontpochu: which is why 'also affects' should really be cloning the bug16:19
kikopochu, also affects does generate email -- do you mean to the people subscribed to the bug, though?16:23
ScottKkiko: lamont and I were just wishing it didn't and he was presenting a counter argument.16:24
lamontkiko: when a downstream disto says "me too", I really don't want to hear it: that's their bug.16:25
lamontOTOH, when they have a patch for me, I'd love to know16:25
kikolamont, I'm not sure you really don't want to hear it in all cases.16:25
lamontand if someone marks the bug as "also affects upstream", then I do want to hear about it, generally.16:25
kikoand it's easier to ignore or delete email than to make it appear when it doesn't. :)16:25
lamontkiko: heh16:25
ScottKkiko: I'm certain when baltix me too's feisty-backports bugs that I don't want to hear it in all cases.16:25
lamontkiko: and understood...16:26
lamontkiko: ostrich-releases like backports (head in the sand, don't care about the world)  _would_ be a case where I don't want to hear about it _ever_.16:26
kikoScottK, you can ignore mail by component you know :-)16:27
lamontbut backports could be special in that regard.16:27
kikobut not by pocket, hmm16:27
lamontkiko: sounds like you know what to put in _that_ bug report, eh? :-)16:27
keescookddaa: heya16:32
ddaakeescook: I looked a your xpath stuff16:33
ddaathe biggest problem I have is not translating it16:33
=== meduxa is now known as toscalix
ddaais figuring what the hell it's intended to do16:33
keescookhehe, yeah.16:34
ddaaI have a feeling it should be reasonably easy to translate to some functional programming construct that's more readable16:34
* lamont wonders if there is a mailing list that all build logs get mailed to...16:34
pochuseb128: #ubuntu-installer has the CIA bot, which does that for them. You might want to talk to cjwatson or evand.16:34
ddaaor even not even functional programming at all...16:34
keescookddaa: sure, I totally believe it's possible to do that; I'm interested in figuring out why it doesn't work with the "workaround" document obj.16:34
ddaakeescook: what I am interested in16:35
ddaais enabling folks like to make nice greasemonkey love for launchpad16:35
seb128pochu: as they documented on their wiki that's something they set up on the commiter side, not on the server16:35
ddaakeescook: figuring why esoteric undocumented features of firefox do not work as intended in edge cases is, like, totally not on my radar :)16:35
keescookddaa: um, esoteric?  xpath is very very common.16:36
pochuseb128: ok, but that's what you asked for, isn't it? :-)16:36
ddaaI know xpath, I just never heard of a portable way to evaluate xpath expression in js16:36
ddaakeescook: I'd be glad to be educated, though16:37
* keescook has no clue16:37
keescookI just use things from examples I see.  :)16:37
seb128pochu: not really, I would like a server side solution, not something which display commit only of people who configured the hook locally16:37
keescookbut I know xpath is all fancy-cool and what all the web2.0 kidz are using.  :)16:37
* ddaa used xpath beyound reason when he was a xslt crack-peddler16:38
ddaakeescook: here's my hunch16:38
ddaatry stuffing the data into a hidden element on the page16:38
ddaait might it's not working because the DOM is not up in the air, and not in a page16:39
ddaain any case, it does not look it a problem with launchpad at all16:39
ddaaprove me wrong and give me something to fix16:39
keescookddaa: that's true.  I do get an XML response now.16:39
keescookI'll try the hidden element hack.  :)  do you have a small snippet as an example of that?16:40
ddaanope, I just imagined it might work :)16:40
ddaabut I cannot help the feeling that it would be more sensible to stick to simple things that get the job done16:41
pochuseb128: this might be interesting: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+spec/irc-notifications16:42
ddaakeescook: I'm thinking of closing bug 153654 as invalid16:42
ubotuLaunchpad bug 153654 in launchpad "null XHR.responseXML" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/153654 - Assigned to David Allouche (ddaa)16:42
seb128pochu: right, the idea is not new ;-)16:42
keescookddaa: okay, that's fine by me.16:43
ddaaI talked a bit with mpt, and he seems to be extremely meh about serving pages as text/xml...16:43
kikohey Seveas 16:43
kikoScottK, so, about pyspf.16:43
keescookyeah, that's fine.  Adding the mime override for XML use is okay by me.16:43
Seveashey kiko16:43
kikoScottK, it's actually the case that because pyspf releases separate tarballs, it's meant to be a separate project indeed.16:44
kikoScottK, now I've set up a code import for it on trunk and am waiting for it to sync16:44
ddaakeescook: btw, I have just come up with some userContent.css you might want to use16:44
keescookddaa: oh?16:45
ScottKkiko: I don't see anything on LP about it?16:45
kikoSeveas, how could I convince you to rig your bot to also accept commit messages?16:45
kikoScottK, in https://edge.launchpad.net/pyspf?16:45
kikoScottK, because that's what represents the upstream side of the project16:46
Seveaskiko, a suitable bribe and/or a more clear explanation of what you mean16:46
ScottKkiko: I was looking at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pyspf16:46
kikoSeveas, so seb128 was talking to be about how it would be neat to get commit messages posted to IRC16:46
kikoSeveas, and I was thinking that if we got your bot to subscribe to a branch, it'd get notified16:46
ScottKkiko: I don't see any indication of code, but maybe that waits for the sync16:47
kikoSeveas, it'd then be a matter of parsing that email and posting it16:47
Seveaskiko, hmm, I'm going to have to redesign the mail-to-irc bits then. They currently require a separate address for each function16:48
ScottKkiko: Homepage and description are still obsolete.16:48
kikoSeveas, we could use a separate address, no problem.16:48
Seveaskiko, file it as a bug please16:48
kikoScottK, yeah, the sync isn't going yet. but it will, and I'm working on a portlet to display the latest revisions that we could use in useful contexts16:48
kikoScottK, do you have a good description for it?16:48
kikoI don't16:48
ScottKkiko: Where did you get the wrong one you have?16:49
Seveaskiko, it is a problem since it's not trivial to create N launchpad accounts for N branches. Ideally, adding a branch (or bug) monitor should be fairly trivial 16:49
kikoScottK, from http://www.wayforward.net/spf/16:49
kikoScottK, incidentally. :)16:49
ScottKSo where did you get that?16:50
kikoScottK, http://www.google.com.br/search?q=pyspf&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a16:50
ScottKkiko: It would seem to me to make sense to look at the perfectly reasonable package description provided in the Debian packaging.16:51
ScottKThe problem in this case is that that hasn't been the project's home for ~3 years.16:51
lamontScottK: if the package isn't 3 years old, then that's a bug.16:52
lamontif it is, then it's just annoying16:53
kikoScottK, arguably, the project needs its own homepage :)16:53
ScottKkiko: It's got all the home page it needs on Sourceforge or Python Cheeseshop.16:54
=== matsubara-lunch is now known as matsubara
kikoScottK, fair enough. maybe get the original author to redirect to it? :)16:55
ubotuNew bug: #153948 in rosetta "translation does not update" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15394816:56
ScottKkiko: Sure, but I'm sensing this is a wrong way to go about this.16:56
kikoScottK, updated the upstream page, now16:57
ddaakeescook: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/41077/16:57
ScottKkiko: I'm one of the upstream developers.  I just took over as Debian maintainer for the package (although I havne't uploaded yet), and here I am (only because I also happen to use Ubuntu) having to tell you that it's wrong.16:57
ScottKThis just doesn't seem like a process that is going to scale well at all.16:57
kikoScottK, now that this is done more useful things can happen.16:59
ScottKkiko: How is this going to work for the thousands of packages in Universe?17:00
kikoScottK, one step at a time? we already have about a thousand covered17:00
keescookddaa: neat; how do I apply that?17:00
ddaastick that into chrome/userContent.css17:00
ubotuNew bug: #153955 in soyuz "Creating a new distribution series with a space in its name causes an IntegrityError but no OOPS" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15395517:01
ScottKkiko: How many of those are as wrong as this one?  So far you are 0 for 1 I've looked at.17:01
kikobehold the statistics ;)17:02
ScottKWell so far, I've wasted a fair amount of time getting something that is of no value to me right.  I don't understand why it exists at all.17:04
kikoScottK, it would help if you helped maintain the upstream project, given you are an upstream developer, in this specific case. we've done that for most upstreams that we have a good relationship with17:04
ScottKWhy should I spend time on it? 17:04
kikoScottK, i.e. I maintain the kiwi and stoq packages17:04
ScottKWhat value is it to me as an upstream or an Ubuntu dev?17:04
kikowhich I am upstream for17:04
kikoScottK, I guess I need to write a blog entry about that17:04
ScottKAs an Ubuntu dev, all I want is to be able to link to upstream bugs.  17:05
kikoScottK, but to be honest, I'm not sure how much time you've wasted since it's me doing all the real work!17:05
ScottKAll this other stuff is just extraneous cruft.17:05
kikoyou are just the one being a curmudgeon. :)17:05
ScottKWell it's me sitting here pointing you at it.17:05
ScottKkiko: I do resent time I spend as a volunteer helping you improve your proprietary prodcut.  In most cases I have consulting rates for that.17:06
kikoScottK, one day you will realize that I am just a great a person as your best friend and then you will regret being so nasty to me. but for now I will just ignore that.17:07
* kiko goes back to work17:08
ScottKIt's not personal17:08
* ScottK really doesn't understand why noticing that launchpad is not FOSS, is being nasty.17:08
LaserJockScottK: noticing is one thing, but "resenting" is a bit more than that17:11
ScottKLaserJock: Perhaps.  Getting forced to work on proprietary products to keep Ubuntu working nicely is something I resent, but OK.17:12
ubotuNew bug: #153960 in soyuz "AMD64 sbuild didn't apt-get the 'Build-Depends-Indep' but i386 did" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15396017:15
LaserJockScottK: right, but giving the people who *can't* change that a hard time doesn't help make it any free-er, IMO17:17
ScottKAgreed.  Equally I really don't appreciate having the time I invest in it (resentful or not) minimized.17:17
ubotuNew bug: #153962 in rosetta "Sorry for being rude but this is the only way of contacting you,l " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15396217:20
LaserJockScottK: agreed17:22
kikowell, it can be changed, and I do care a lot about it not being free software, but it's not something that happens in a blink. and creating the upstream product and maintaining the packaging link isn't making "a proprietary product" better, it's actually making the Launchpad service for Ubuntu better. but that's ill-documented and I'd better invest time in fixing that than in arguing nonsense over IRC.17:24
ScottKkiko: No trouble.  It is how it makes Ubuntu better that I really don't understand.17:25
ScottKkiko: So I'll be glad to read about it in the blog.17:26
=== kiko is now known as kiko-fud
=== bluekuja_ is now known as bluekuja
MilesTeghi everyone18:25
MilesTegI want to translate some programs. Is it possible to list all entries that are not translated yet AND have no suggestions?18:28
kiko-fudhmmm. good question.18:29
jtvcarlos is done for the day.  I'm looking at it.  I'm already half asleep though, so don't expect much18:32
jtvMilesTeg: in the various translation overviews you'll see a column "need review."  That's the number of messages that have pending suggestions.18:34
jtvSo at least you'll be able to find the templates that need your attention.  Individual messages are harder.18:34
MilesTegok, thx18:35
MilesTeghm... anyway, a filter "untranslated+no suggestions" would be useful...18:48
jtvMilesTeg: you might see if there's a bug ticket for that.18:51
jtvOops, 1 AM, I'm being kicked out.  Gotta go!18:52
MilesTeghm... yes there is a bug ticket... and at least two duplicates ;)18:58
kiko-fudMilesTeg, what's the number?19:08
MilesTegit's #10294319:08
kiko-fudbug #10294319:13
ubotuLaunchpad bug 102943 in rosetta "Allow displaying only strings that have no suggestions" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/10294319:13
=== kiko-fud is now known as kiko
javamaniachi everyone, does launchpad have some "clean" way to allow an external application to get data from it? I mean, a web service or something19:33
javamaniacI don't want to use web scrapping for that19:33
mwhudsonjavamaniac: it depends a bit19:33
mwhudsonjavamaniac: it is _absolutely_ a goal, but not one that's quite attained yet19:34
mwhudsonjavamaniac: what sort of info are you after?19:34
javamaniacbug reports19:34
pochujavamaniac: Actually you can use python-launchpad-bugs for that.19:34
pochu(And bughelper)19:34
javamaniacpochu, Oh, good, I'll search about it19:35
ScottKpochu: bughelper screen scrapes, IIRC.19:35
javamaniacdoes it?19:35
ScottKLast I looked, yes, but it's been a while.19:36
kikojavamaniac, how much do you need from the bug?19:38
javamaniackiko, I want to be able to search on the Bug Database (aka Malone)19:38
javamaniacsoren, the most of the information, the better19:39
kikojavamaniac, search and do what with the results?19:39
javamaniackiko, I'm doing web app to search on some Bug tracking systems , I have debbugs and bugzila, I'd like to search on Malone from my app19:41
javamaniac(yeah, I know launchpad does it a long time ago)19:41
javamaniacbut i'd like to make it on my own way, I'm playing with some ideas about it right now19:42
kikojavamaniac, okay, that's cool, but what sort of information do you want from the results? just the bug ids?19:47
javamaniackiko, the summary would be cool too19:48
kikojavamaniac, mmmm. we used to have a working way to do queries for bug that returned text only. I'll look into fixing it :-/19:50
javamaniackiko, great!, let me know about it :)19:51
ubotuNew bug: #154018 in launchpad "supermirror@vostok keep locking my branch" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15401819:55
ubotuNew bug: #154053 in launchpad "launchpad account does not work in news" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15405321:40
=== Ubulette_ is now known as Ubulette
ubotuNew bug: #154057 in soyuz "DistroSeries architecture list sorts randomly" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15405721:55
=== pitoow_AWAY is now known as pitoow
=== pitoow is now known as pitoow_zZz

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