/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2007/10/18/#ubuntu-mobile.txt

=== aTOmicDuDe is now known as ToddBrandt
jayakumar2hi. here's my newbie feedback on m-i-c. all the initial steps work very cleanly. i am very impressed. the final step, ie: image-creator -c create-live-usb says a bunch of stuff and then sticks on mkfs.vfat which is where it is right now. i think it's doing something since i see that /tmp/pdk-$$ is growing04:22
dholbachgood morning06:47
=== asac_ is now known as asac
apple2probably many people have already asked but what about the nokia 770/n800?13:16
amitkapple2: what about the nokias?13:17
agoliveiraapple2: Use the FAQ, Luke... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ13:17
apple2I have read the FAQ lots of times?13:20
apple2There has been some thoughts that it will run on armel as well13:20
loolapple2: There's no ongoing effort to do this in Ubuntu; you're welcome to start such efforts if an armel Ubuntu is what you're looking for13:21
apple2ok13:21
Mithrandirwe'd be quite happy if somebody were to start working on it, but we just don't have the resources at the moment13:22
apple2For now I'm workin on debian sid for nokia 77013:22
apple2and its getting ok13:22
loolapple2: There are efforts for Debian though13:22
apple2but ubuntu sounds better13:23
apple2porting debian is not difficult 13:23
apple2for now i have working apt13:23
apple2with lots of packages13:23
apple2an dx server13:23
apple2with touch13:23
apple2X server*13:23
apple2and when is ubuntu mobile supposed to get out?13:24
=== agoliveira is now known as agoliveira_brb
suihkulokkiapple2: I'm working the debian/armel port (and running it on n800)13:26
suihkulokkiwhat exactly do you need/want/do ?13:26
apple2for now I'm just experimenting13:27
apple2are you using real X13:27
apple2or xomap13:28
suihkulokkixomap13:28
apple2me too13:28
apple2and what about wifi manager?13:30
suihkulokkiapple2: "works" with command line stuff - ifconfig wlan0 up, iwconfig wlan essid "myessid", dhclient13:31
suihkulokkinetwork-manager seems unhappy..13:31
Mithrandirapple2: release date> we're looking at doing a full release with 8.04, so April.13:32
ian_brasilagoliveira: here you go https://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192708879.html ..you will need a maemo account13:33
apple2so we'll have to wait13:33
ian_brasilthere are 500 discount codes  to buy an N810 for for 99€13:34
ian_brasilthere is a lot of mobile news today it seems with this announcement too http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/apple-planning-iphone-sdk-for-february/13:35
=== agoliveira_brb is now known as agoliveira
apple2is n810 for sale already?13:37
agoliveiraian_brasil: Cool. I'll check it out right now.13:39
ian_brasilapple2: i think it depends where you live i think13:39
amitkapple2: not until Nov13:40
apple2hope n800 gets cheaper :)13:41
agoliveiraian_brasil: Weird... I do have an account there but I can seem to be able to login...13:43
amitkapple2: it already is ~100eur cheaper in some shops13:44
ian_brasilagoliveira: it took me 4/5 tries ...the first linux tablets are becoming collectors items especially the 770 ...get one if you can i reckon13:45
agoliveiraian_brasil: I already have a 770 almost since they were released.13:46
apple2I have a 770 and I don't think there is much of a revolution until now13:48
ian_brasilagoliveira: ume running on my 770 would be awesome ..we just need someone to open up the wlan and power management13:49
agoliveiraian_brasil: Same old, same old... :)13:50
ian_brasilagoliveira: yes, point taken13:50
* agoliveira just can't login into maemo.org13:58
loolian_brasil: I noticed that you have a developer focus in some parts of the umeguide; I think it would make sense to hint at hildon-audit which sounds like a good QA tool for a developer13:59
ian_brasili had a wrong password which was my problem13:59
ian_brasiland there are lots of people complaining on #maemo so looks like there is some site problem14:00
ian_brasillool: i have that on my ToDo list :)14:01
loolian_brasil: Personally I witnessed that the password (even when incorrect) is sent multiple times in a row; I suspect the midguard integration to be the culprit14:02
loolAnd when the password is incorrect, this prevent retrying and doesn't display any error message (here), but on reload and after entering the proper one twice, it works14:02
loolian_brasil: Are you in a position to fix the "submit" button on the profile page?14:03
ian_brasillool: no, i am only a monkey not an organ grinder ;)14:04
=== agoliveira is now known as agoliveira_lunch
=== cprov is now known as cprov-lunch
mfreyMithrandir: ping16:07
Ward1983is ubuntu-mobile out now?16:09
Mithrandirmfrey: hi?16:29
mfreyMithrandir: I sent an email to the list but while I have you -- I found that the reason the usplash does not work for the Menlow builds is that we are missing the usplash packes16:35
=== agoliveira_lunch is now known as agoliveira
Mithrandirmfrey: ok, but there's nothing to be done about that, Gutsy is released.16:40
agoliveiraWard1983: Not as a release. The project is ongoing as you can see. The target for the first release is with Ubuntu 8.04.16:40
mfreyMithrandir: ok but moving forward -- what is the procedure now that Gutsy is released16:40
amitkMithrandir: not missing packages in the repo, missing packages in the fset16:43
mfreyamitk: correct 16:43
Mithrandiramitk: still nothing to be done about that.16:44
Mithrandirmfrey: once we have PPAs for lpia, we can upload a new ubuntu-mobile metapackage there and include usplash in the ubuntu-mobile package.16:44
=== Peter_home_ is now known as Peter_home
amitkMithrandir: nothing to be done in Gutsy, true, but I think mfrey is asking it to be fixed in image-creator. I am assuming they are running image-creator from git. mfrey?16:48
Ward1983agoliveira, and if i want to fiddle around with it in a few weeks or so, can i allready test it?16:48
Ward1983agoliveira, and if yes, how?16:48
mfreyamitk: correct -- that is how we generate nightly builds for our customer16:48
agoliveiraWard1983: Of course. Take a look here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/16:48
mfreyamitk: maybe this is a question for HappyCamp 16:49
amitkmfrey: yes16:49
agoliveiraHappyCamp A.K.A sodarock16:49
agoliveira(just in case he wasn't bliped :) )16:50
Ward1983agoliveira, i did, and i just did again to make sure, but i can't find anything about how to test it16:50
agoliveiraWard1983: Install it on a chroot or device (like the Samsung Q1 Ultra) and start to play with it. What else do you want?16:51
Ward1983agoliveira, i want to know HOW to download it, where, i can't find it on the wiki16:52
ian_brasilWard1983: you can use dogtail on the UI, you can also rum autotest on the kernel16:52
agoliveiraWard1983: Have you seem the links " Installing UME test environment *"?16:52
agoliveiranot to mention teh UME Guide, etc16:54
Ward1983agoliveira, i thought that was about creating a test environment on a regular PC to program for ubuntu-mobile ?16:54
ian_brasilWard1983: you could look on here http://umeguides.net/ as agoliveira mentioned16:54
agoliveiraWard1983: I don't understand what's your doubt. As I said above and it's on the docs, you can install the environment on your PC or in a device directly. From there you can play with it, install applications, hack into it, etc16:56
Ward1983ian_brasil, i didnt realist the isntallinfo would be there, but i now know16:56
Ward1983agoliveira, i know now, which is why i asked, because i didnt know16:56
Ward1983agoliveira, ian_brasil thanx for the info!16:57
agoliveiraWard1983: No problem.16:57
ian_brasilWard1983: OK...happy hacking !16:57
davidmJust about time to start the meeting17:00
bspencer_good mornin' y'all.17:00
Mithrandirdavidm: do you want to do it this week?17:00
mfreygood afternoon17:00
* lool suspects Intel folks to schedule the join in their chat clients17:00
davidmMithrandir, sure17:00
davidm#startmeeting17:01
MootBotMeeting started at 17:01. The chair is davidm.17:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]17:01
agoliveirabspencer:'mornign Bob17:01
mawhalengood morning17:01
Don_JohnsonGood Morning17:01
amitkevening17:01
davidmgood morning, I'm grabbing the list from last week, one moment17:02
agoliveiramawhalen: Good morning Intel Happy People!17:02
robr2good morning17:02
cwong1good morning17:02
Mithrandirhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20071018 is today's agenda.  I think we should have a call for extra agenda items as the first item. :-)17:02
davidmYou can update the meeting agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/2007101817:02
davidmYes, does anyone have extra agenda items?  If so please update the page.17:03
davidmWhile we leave time for that to happen shall we address the Action items from last week?17:03
Mithrandirsure, it seems like I'm first out there.17:04
MithrandirI've requested a download area, but I just recently did that, and I suspect IS have had their hands full with the release17:05
davidmTOPIC Open Action items17:05
Mithrandiryou need the []-s around17:05
Mithrandirso I'll follow up on that next week when the world has calmed down a bit17:05
davidm[TOPIC] Open Action items from last week17:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Action items from last week 17:05
davidmprivate builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up. Is still open.17:06
loolNext in turn is me; well update didn't go terribly well as the new upstream releases brought many many changes and I had no proper test environment17:06
bspencer_lool started pulling patches from our 0.0.43 hildon-desktop git.   In the end Intel wasn't able to verify the new changes on the ubuntu branch of hildon-desktop so we decided to stick with what was there and not risk the upgrade.17:06
Mithrandirdavidm: give me an action item again so it doesn't fall off the agenda?17:06
loolI do have proper test environments now and should look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week17:06
bspencer_no fault of lool.  Intel was late in providing the changes, etc.  17:07
davidmYes, [Action] private builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up.17:07
bspencer_so the update to hildon-desktop comes in the next gutsy update17:07
davidm[Action] private builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up.17:07
MithrandirI think you need to do [ACTION] at the start of the line17:07
MootBotACTION received:  private builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up. 17:07
bspencer_lool, thanks for your help.17:07
loolhaha Mithrandir :)17:07
loolbspencer_: Thanks to you too; I think we both tried equally hard and were both very confused17:07
bspencer_mjg59, did update hildon-desktop with some small changes at the last minute to get the brightness and volume controls into statusbar.conf17:08
davidmSo is the action lool will look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week?17:08
Mithrandirbspencer_: would it be possible for you guys to directly push changes into the bzr branch rather than what you do now where you have a git tree which nobody is entirely sure where is branched off from?17:08
loolI'm afraid the update was too big too close to the release; but then I read that hildon-desktop saw a major rewrite in Hildon 2, so no surprize17:08
looldavidm: Yes17:08
davidm[action] lool will look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week?17:08
MootBotACTION received:  lool will look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week? 17:08
bspencer_davidm, Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes.17:08
bspencer_Mithrandir, yes.  We can update the ubuntu brach directly17:08
davidm[action] Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes.17:09
MootBotACTION received:  Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. 17:09
bspencer_s/suggest/make17:09
bspencer_> bspencer and ToddBrandt to sync up on what components from Todd should be uploaded to gutsy17:09
agoliveiraI think that lool will have work for more time than that just with this item :) Hildon is going over a major makeove AFAIK.17:09
bspencer_we did that.   We took out the software keyboard config for gutsy release17:09
bfillerbspencer_: was there any resolution to the problem of other packages modifying hildon-desktop conf files?17:10
bspencer_agoliveira, really?  I haven't heard about that.17:10
loolagoliveira: i expect to devote more time to mobile stuff now that the release is out (except for a couple of SRUs in progress), but I have some low priority stuff to do in case I'm bored :)17:10
bspencer_bfiller, some discussion17:10
bspencer_bfiller, lucasr did show me a way to get statusbar items automaticlaly included17:10
loolIn general, many upstream modules must have been updated for Hildon 217:11
davidmbspencer_ do you want an action item on the "bspencer and ToddBrandt to sync up"17:11
bspencer_but no consensus on how to remove the configuration items from the hildon-desktop pkg.17:11
loolSo we should probably upload all our modules; this is a pre-requisite to send our fixes anyway17:11
bspencer_davidm, no.  We finished that17:11
davidmK17:11
bspencer_bfiller, anything else about that?17:11
loolErr s/upload/update, sorry17:11
davidm[topic] TODO for gutsy17:12
MootBotNew Topic:  TODO for gutsy 17:12
bspencer_davidm, nice timing :)17:12
bspencer_> Peter_u3 to talk to telepathy upstream about new libtelepathy.17:12
smagounbspencer_: I know bfiller was interested in the status of the patches he sent you17:12
bfillerbspencer_: so do marquee_plugins and moblin-applets no longer directly modify the conf files in the postinst?17:12
davidmlittle slow sorry, I'll edit it later17:12
Peter_homebspencer, Mithrandir, davidm, ok.17:13
bspencer_bfiller, I don't know if marquee-plugins ever did that.  Maybe they did and I wasn't aware.  17:13
bspencer_but there is no resolution17:13
bspencer_[Action] bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages17:13
Peter_homeI talked with Rob and Empathy author and they both told me the upgrade from 0.0.55 to 0.2 is safe17:13
mjg59bfiller: They no longer do17:13
bfillermjg59, bspencer_ : ok, thanks17:14
bspencer_[action] bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages17:14
bspencer_.... ? :)17:14
davidm[action] bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages17:14
MootBotACTION received:  bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages 17:14
bspencer_thx.17:15
davidmI have to do that as the meeting chair....17:15
bspencer_got it17:15
* bspencer_ feels less powerful17:15
davidmBut that makes it easy for me to cut and paste :-)17:15
bspencer_Peter_home, thanks for the update.  17:15
davidmso feel free to do that Please...17:15
bspencer_davidm, that is all the todo items for me.17:15
davidmOK17:16
davidm[topic] current items17:16
MootBotNew Topic:  current items 17:16
davidmI don't have any on the web page in the wiki, does anyone have some?17:16
bspencer_davidm, update your page17:17
* agoliveira added one and Mithrandir too...17:17
davidm[TOPIC] Pre-Alpha status (tfheen)17:17
MootBotNew Topic:  Pre-Alpha status (tfheen) 17:17
looldavidm: There are two now17:17
MithrandirI guess it makes sense to talk a little bit about current state.17:17
davidmgot it, my autoupdate failed ;-(17:17
davidmI agree17:18
Mithrandircalculator, media player, pim, chat and flash player are in (in some form)17:18
MithrandirI think we have the games in as well, but they're useless due to missing 3D at least on menlow17:18
* agoliveira agrees17:19
bspencer_Mithrandir, "are in"  but far from complete, if even usable.  17:19
bspencer_(did claws hildon make it in?  I tried it but didn't see the hildon version )17:19
Mithrandirbspencer_: they were alpha deliverables from your end, so we don't expect them to be polished at all.17:19
bspencer_Mithrandir, I like the "at all" part.  We hope to improve them significantly17:19
bspencer_cheeze is also there and hildonized.17:20
rustylbspencer, Mithrandir ... i'm running late today17:20
kyleNjust noting the suggestions smagoun made on the list respecting modifying email UI to make it palatable17:20
agoliveirabspencer_: Latest Claws wasn't uploaded due the release.17:20
bspencer_kyleN, yes.  those were great.  much improvement!  should they be claws-based ?   who can own it... we should chat about this somewhere/sometime17:21
agoliveirakyleN: This is a *very* long discussion17:21
bfillerbspencer_: maybe a session at UDS is in order?17:21
kyleNyes, such changes are big but probably essential17:21
MithrandirI'm less happy about the test plan though, or lack thereof.17:21
agoliveira+117:21
bfillerbspencer_: we have lots of ideas and some rough specs that could be used as a discussion point17:22
bspencer_bfiller, UDS?17:22
MithrandirUbuntu Development Summit17:22
mfreybspencer: yes17:22
kyleNi'd like to suggest that adding an app to core is not just hildonizing it, but also involves modifying the UI in ways as yet to be determined17:22
agoliveira"in ways as yet to be determined" is the key17:22
bspencer_kyleN, right.  I was discussing this same topic here yesterday17:23
kyleNyes, appropriate for a small form factor screen and possibly gesture enabled etc17:23
bfillerbspencer_: any Intel guys attending UDS?17:23
bspencer_we can all recognize that our apps are ad hoc at this point and need much love and a joining of hands for look/feel and usability17:23
bspencer_Mithrandir, do you want to chat about the test plan?17:24
kyleNlove is good17:24
agoliveirabspencer_: I'm all for it.17:24
Mithrandirbspencer_: unsure if we should do it in-meeting or not17:24
kyleNthis needs to be formalized a a requirement somehow17:24
agoliveiraThe question is that if we divert too much from what hildon does, we might as well (have to?) trash hildon and use something else.17:24
agoliveiraI think we should discuss this at UDS.17:25
agoliveiraMake that "have to"17:25
bspencer_an action item to do so would be good17:25
bspencer_(test plan)17:25
davidmbspencer_ action item for test plan or UI issues?17:25
bspencer_both... start with the test plan17:26
mawhalenirc://logicsbox.jf.intel.com:6665/umd17:26
bspencer_for UI, there are multiple topics to discuss17:26
bspencer_mawhalen, wrong channel ?17:26
mawhalensorry -17:26
bspencer_:)17:26
davidm[action] Review test place at UDS17:26
MootBotACTION received:  Review test place at UDS 17:26
bspencer_UI:   ownership, how to get a higher quality of usabilty and consistency, process17:26
davidm[action] Review UI issues at UDS17:27
MootBotACTION received:  Review UI issues at UDS 17:27
bspencer_s/UI/ Apps 17:27
* agoliveira gets dizzy just with the implications...17:27
looldavidm: Ah, reminds me I would like to know what I should bring to UDS; I'd prefer not bringing the Q1U unless it's really useful17:27
smagounI think someone should have a UI plan going into UDS. It will be much more effective that way17:27
davidmI have created some items for UDS and both are already on my list17:27
bspencer_agoliveira, I don't (yet) think we need to separate from hildon.  We can get very nice looking system with the hildon framework.17:28
lool(Because I'll have lots of packages already and I fear losing it or breaking it or agoliveira pushing me in the stairs)17:28
davidmI am planning on bringing my Q1 and my Crown Beach since it's quite easy for me to move things around in the US.17:28
Mithrandirok, move on then?17:28
davidmsure17:28
bfillerbspencer_: I agree. Don't think hildon is the problem17:28
davidm[Topic] Intel participation on UDS (agoliveira)17:28
MootBotNew Topic:  Intel participation on UDS (agoliveira) 17:28
agoliveiraThat's me...17:29
bspencer_HappyCamp, will be there (John V)17:29
bspencer_and Dan Johnson17:29
bspencer_(I believe)17:29
bspencer_s/Dan/Don17:29
agoliveiraWe kind of treated about this already. Following the UI issues, I would like to know who/when the Intel guys will be around so we can talk about it.17:29
bspencer_(oops)17:29
davidms/Dan/Don/17:29
bspencer_Don_Johnson  ping17:30
bspencer_as a family man I'm just disappointed that I can't go trick-or-treating with my kids, a much anticipated activity17:30
bspencer_but I will be there too17:30
Don_JohnsonYes I'm here and will be attending UDS. I plan on putting together some test plan proposals to bring with me.17:30
bspencer_rustyl, won't, I think he has a conflict17:30
agoliveirabspencer_: I have my wife *and* daugter birthdays during this period so stop complaining :)17:30
bspencer_agoliveira, my condolences17:31
rustyli do have a conflict17:31
rustylso I will not be able to make UDS17:31
davidmrustyl, is there any chance you can attend part of it?17:31
davidmI have heard from my team that your presence is very important.17:32
davidmEven if you can only make a day or two I can schedule items around it17:32
* agoliveira looks the other way, humming a song...17:32
kyleNwe need to write up expected USB client capacities for a customer. Is this covered anywhere?17:32
agoliveiraAm I still connected?17:33
bspencer_davidm, rustyl   sync?17:34
agoliveiraYes17:34
kyleNexposing local folder to syncing, internet connection sharing. is the status of this final?17:34
davidmagoliveira yes you are connected17:34
bspencer_rustyl, you can't make any part of UDS?17:34
rustyllet me review the dates again17:34
bspencer_rustyl, get your priorities straight man!  UDS is where the action is.17:34
agoliveiras/action/geeks + beer17:35
kyleNsorry if I'm off topic, but I need to know 17:35
=== mawhalen_ is now known as mawhalen
davidmkyleN if you add it to the wiki I'll make sure to cover it.17:36
bspencer_davidm, agoliveira ... that's all we have for UDS that I know of.  3 people:  Don, JohnV, Bob17:36
davidmOK17:36
kyleNnot sure which wiki you are referring to17:36
davidmhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/2007101817:36
kyleNthx17:37
Peter_homeagoliveira, you should suggest UDS held on that beach.17:37
davidmOK, are we done with UDS attendance?17:37
agoliveiraPeter_home: I'll, believe me :)17:37
agoliveiradavidm: I guess so17:37
davidmif so is the next topic Application development and upstream (bspencer)?17:38
bspencer_yes17:38
davidm[topic] Application development and upstream (bspencer)17:38
MootBotNew Topic:  Application development and upstream (bspencer) 17:38
bspencer_we covered some of this and it is a larger UDS topic probably17:38
bspencer_but I wanted to discuss how to do significant app development on upstream projects17:38
bspencer_for example, pushing up a patch at a time to claws email will not result in the UI that was sent out earlier17:38
bspencer_(from pepper guys, can't remember who sent it)17:39
bspencer_so it may need to be done in bigger chunks17:39
smagounbspencer_: that was me, I have more where that came rom17:39
bspencer_with a temporary repository and ownership while these big changes are going on.17:39
bspencer_smagoun, nice17:39
bfillerbspencer_: note, Pepper guys are now Canonical guys  ;) 17:40
bspencer_I know that we continually come back to not wanting to fork, so I think we have to agree on a balance17:40
agoliveirabspencer_ PPAs can be used for that17:40
bspencer_bfiller, ok... but you are a category :)17:40
bfillerbspencer_: indeed17:40
bspencer_I think for the key apps like email, chat, etc., it requires that we have a central hildon-specfic repo17:41
loolWhen the changes are larger though, we must make sure we don't keep a burden of merging them after each new upstream release for too long17:41
smagounsince changing claws to look like the mockup is a big piece of work, what about leveraging upstream to do that work?17:41
bspencer_agoliveira, PPAs... I'll have to familiarize myself with how these can work.17:41
kyleNadded my action item to the wiki17:41
agoliveirasmagoun: I don't think that would work.17:41
bspencer_smagoun, that is a good idea, but we have to be clear on the final product request17:41
loolbspencer_: Distribution and source management is not a problem while implementing the changes IMO; the issue is long term maintenance17:42
bspencer_so we have something that looks like the other applications17:42
smagounbspencer_:  we have that problem anyway, even if intel or canonical is doing the work :)17:42
bspencer_lool, agreed.  17:42
loolIf you fork claws and make that claws-hildon, then you have to maintain that fork forever ... or be dropped  :-/17:42
bspencer_lool, true.  You have to continually resync with upstream's new additions as they make things you want17:43
Mithrandirwhich is a reason for us to prefer upstream projects which are GNOME ones, since hildon is one of the GNOME Mobile widget thingies17:43
loolPerhaps we can convince upstream claws folks to have two flavors of the interface in their own tree and to start direct distribution of these two flavors upstream17:43
bspencer_lool, it works if you have write access to the hildon repository17:43
bspencer_in the short term that may not be possible thogh17:44
loolFor example some webapp projects have a web and a wap interface (don't laugh), we could sell them that they will soon be popular on N800 and MID devices :)17:44
agoliveiraLooks like this is another item for UDS.17:44
loolbspencer_: I think we're talking of upstream apps here, not hildon17:44
loolbspencer_: Or do you mean the Nokia maemo archive upload rights?17:44
bspencer_lool, I mean tthe hildon-version of claws, for example17:44
davidm[action] further discussion of Application development and upstream at UDS17:45
MootBotACTION received:  further discussion of Application development and upstream at UDS 17:45
loolbspencer_: Yeah, and it takes some time to gain enough trust to achieve this17:45
bspencer_lool, right.  OK.  UDS it is.17:45
bspencer_thanks davidm 17:45
Peter_homelool, if most changes are UI specific, I don't think so. Considering maemo garage have many many hildon UI apps hosted rather than hosted in upstream apps17:45
loolWe might also need to think of "corrupting" them properly; selling the idea /fast/ might include organizing in person meetings, blogging with screenshots, or sending them a device to hack on it themselves too; random ideas...17:46
davidmI have to say where possible we really want upstream to take the changes so we don't maintain a fork forever.17:46
loolPeter_home: I think there's a specificity here in that we need exact sync between upstream's releases and hildonized releases17:46
bspencer_lool, good ideas.  Still, for the big 5-6 apps, I think someone who has a lot of skin in the game may need to own them "forever"17:46
bspencer_meaning, continue to make sure they are picture-perfect and bug free17:47
loolPeter_home: Say, a new release of claws comes out, the hildonization patch doesn't apply anymore, we might not be able to delay it until someone appears to update it17:47
loolOr we update it ourselves, but then we're upstream of the "delta" and potentially investing large chunks of times forever17:47
loolbspencer_: Oh I agree17:48
davidmbspencer, no matter what someone with skin in the game is going to have to own them but if the changes are upstream there is less work involved in the ownership17:48
Peter_homelool,IMHO, sync seems not avoidable. We have to sync by maintainers for hildon UI version17:48
loolbspencer_: It makes sense to have an owned code base for some key apps or for some themes etc.17:48
loolbspencer_: But the less, the better17:48
bspencer_it is a balance between a distribution (who doesn't want to own any apps) and a company making the end product where everything is supported by them17:48
Peter_homelool, agree, less, better17:48
mfreydon't you think upstream would welcome changes to the apps that make them "killer" on a mobile device17:48
loolPeter_home: I didn't get your previous remark17:48
agoliveiraUnless we have resurces enough to just fork it and have our way.17:49
looldavidm: I fully agree with your remark: if the changes are close together, the maintenance burden for two versions is smaller17:49
smagounagoliveira: we don't, unless bspencer_ or rustyl can come up with some cash?17:49
davidmmfrey, possibly if they see the value, but that becomes part of our job to try and help them to see the value in taking the patches17:49
agoliveirasmagoun: Exactly :)17:49
bspencer_smagoun, let me check my pockets17:49
loolsmagoun: Sounds good!17:50
bspencer_ok.  thakns for the brain dumping.  More at UDS.17:50
Peter_homelool, I mean, for a few key apps for MID, we really have to have a specific version and sync with upstream by ourself. like many projects on garage.17:50
loolPeter_home: Ack; but then we still need to identify an upstream for them too17:50
bfillerbspencer_: Nokia walks this line between owning and distrubuting..17:50
bspencer_Nokia core apps are Nokia owned, true?  Browser for example17:50
smagounbspencer_: yes17:51
bfillerbspencer_: Skype is another example. Nokia made the "hildon" mods and is maintaining it17:51
davidmbfiller, did they or did they pay skype to make the changes for them?17:52
Peter_homelool, yes, if have to, let's do it now. Actually we have a good start point for those already in gutsy .17:52
loolAgain, we're in a slightly different situation in the way we handle hildonization right now: we mod packages for the lpia architecture, but we expect to do uploads for all architectures at once17:52
amitkdavidm: Skype did not do it17:52
bfillerdavidm: good question, I'm not sure. But I know it's propiertary17:52
loolThis is an organizational choice, and there are solutions, but this has a direct impact in the way we maintain things17:52
bspencer_I just want a clear path to a professional looking result17:53
bspencer_instead of a collection of open source apps17:53
Peter_homebspencer_, yes, good point, totally agree. 17:54
loolPeter_home: But who?  Proving its possible is an achievement, but when people move on to $next_project, who will continue maintenance?17:54
bfillerbspencer_: paying customers will demand that (prof looking results that is)17:54
smagounbspencer_: we're with you - my group at canonical *needs* those professional apps17:54
bspencer_</app dev>17:54
Peter_homelool, MID is a category existing for a long time, just like phone, from my point.17:55
agoliveiraUnless we fork, I see a hard time ahead trying to convince upstream to include the necessary changes.17:55
Peter_homelool, what agoliveira said is also a key fact. If only UI changes, it's difficut to persuit17:56
davidmI don't see us solving this today, further conversations at UDS and elsewhere are going to be needed I think.17:56
bspencer_I'd like to propose we go to next agenda.  We can discuss more online and at UDS.17:56
agoliveira+117:56
davidmDone17:56
bspencer_:)17:56
davidm[topic] Expected USB Client functionality for customer (kyle)17:56
MootBotNew Topic:  Expected USB Client functionality for customer (kyle) 17:56
kyleNmy main question is what is the committed USB client functionality, capacities we know we will have and can be communicated to a customer now. is it written up?  1) Are the syncing issues resolved (how is the mid's ext3 file system exposed to a fat file system)? 2) is connecting sharing actually gong to happen. Is the software already in place? Etc.17:57
agoliveiraCtrl+V :)17:57
kyleN;)17:57
Peter_homelool, actually a example for moblin-chat, I have sent my patches to empathy author and his feedback is keeping this branch in molin site17:57
bspencer_rustyl, ping  do you have an update?17:57
* rustyl catches up17:57
bspencer_rustyl, about usb client status, plan.17:58
rustylbspencer, just what i saw in the email to the ubuntu-mobile mailing list17:58
loolPeter_home: We should discuss this IRL17:58
bspencer_rustyl, who (what person) owns usb client ?  17:58
rustylbspencer, that would be Don_Johnson 17:59
Peter_homelool, sorry , what's IRL? 17:59
loolPeter_home: I totally agree it's achievable technically to maintain forks and a good way to reach high quality; my problem is sustainability and maintenance17:59
loolPeter_home: In Real Life (tm)17:59
bspencer_ah.  Don_Johnson can you comment on kyleN 's qustion above?17:59
Don_JohnsonI own reporting status.  I'll have to check and get back to kyleN with an answer17:59
kyleNDon_Johnson: thanks. I'll look forward to it18:00
bspencer_kyleN, sorry :)18:00
rustylDon_Johnson, wasn't this covered in the blueprint?18:00
amitklool: in real life somebody pays for maintaining a fork :)18:00
rustylDon_Johnson, that is... the capabilities of the hardware18:00
bspencer_kyleN, but I also had a couple guys look into basic media syncing.18:00
davidmOK, on to the next topic18:00
bspencer_kind of related.  I'll send you a status too (to the list)18:00
davidm[topic] Organize the next meetings as we will be at UDS/AllHands (agoliveira). 18:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Organize the next meetings as we will be at UDS/AllHands (agoliveira).  18:01
Don_JohnsonI'll have to check.  This is one of the rough spots in taking over for Charlie18:01
loolamitk: Exactly, you're more direct than me18:01
smagounDon_Johnson: did Charlie leave?18:01
davidmA lot of my team will be traveling to UDS this time next week18:01
agoliveiraSelf explanatory, I guess :)18:01
agoliveiraand there's allhands the other18:01
Peter_homelool, I understand your concern. But reality is that we might have to maintain a fork it it's UI specific changes only. Anyway, case by case, if one app changes can be accpeted by upstream, that's best.18:01
Don_JohnsonCharlie isn't on today.  But he is still available.18:01
bfillerdavidm: isn't UDS the week of Oct 29th, not next week?18:02
agoliveirabfiller: Yes but many of us are leaving on thursday 18:02
davidmYes, but we arrive on Friday  next week at the hotel and some folks have to start traveling on Thursday18:02
agoliveiraWe're supposed to be there on friday18:02
bfilleragoliveira: ahh18:02
agoliveira(there's an event on the weekend too)18:02
Mithrandirand Thursday is a day off for the entire distro team.18:03
agoliveiraThat too.18:03
bspencer_so no meeting for 2wks18:04
agoliveiraSo what to do with the next 3 meetings?18:04
smagounagoliveira:  drink beer?18:04
agoliveira(4 to me as I'll be on vacation :) )18:04
kyleN+1 smagoun18:04
agoliveirasmagoun: On the 4th, absolutely18:04
davidmAssuming that we can get connectivity at UDS can we have a meeting from there I wonder?18:04
Mithrandirdavidm: we will have connectivity at UDS.18:05
agoliveiradavidm: If we're not in a meeting already, which I doubt, of course.18:05
Mithrandirwe could have it, but I'd rather have an in-person status meeting with whoever is present.18:05
agoliveira+118:05
looldavidm: +118:05
davidmI agree, which is why I've been pushing for more people to attend.18:05
davidm:-)18:06
agoliveiraAt the AllHands we will be in a session at thet time too IIRC18:06
davidm[action] davidm to look into what and and how to have status meetings18:06
MootBotACTION received:  davidm to look into what and and how to have status meetings 18:06
bspencer_davidm, at least force us all to send a weekly status next week.18:07
loolWe could move the meeting time I guess18:07
bspencer_lool, :-O !18:07
davidmI'll respond in email to the list I'm too new to know yet.18:07
agoliveiraCool18:07
davidmSo give me a day or so to figure this out.18:07
davidmOK I don't see any more topics on the Wiki18:08
davidmAre we done?18:08
Peter_homedavidm, next UDS we might use a MID with WiMax and have meeting IIRC using that.18:08
davidmThere ya go18:08
agoliveira\o/18:08
Mithrandirdavidm: Don_Johnson probably needs an action item for the USB client thing?18:09
MithrandirPeter_home: using IP over flying pigs! :-)18:09
davidm[action]  Don_Johnson to investigate  USB client issues.18:09
MootBotACTION received:   Don_Johnson to investigate  USB client issues. 18:09
davidm#endmeeting18:10
MootBotMeeting finished at 18:10.18:10
agoliveiraand running hurd to play duke nuken forever :)18:10
Peter_homeMithrandir, :). But I don't understand what you mean by "using IP over flying pigs". :(18:10
SciriPeter_home: I believe Mithrandir is referring to a new IP spec based on RFC 2549: http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2549.html18:13
Peter_homeSciri, Mithrandir, so cool. 18:14
Sciri;)18:14
agoliveiraMacadamia Nut Brittle... hmmmm.... :>)18:22
=== mawhalen_ is now known as mawhalen
* agoliveira is trying to download the last daily but cdimages.u.c is really slow...guess why...18:53
apple2I 'd like to ask suihkulokki how has he made bluez work under debian20:55
suihkulokkiapple2: bluez needs a firmware20:59
apple2yes thats what ot sings for20:59
apple2so is there a way?21:00
suihkulokkiapple2: the firmware should be under /mnt/initfs/somewhere21:00
apple2I think I have lots of things there21:01
apple2yes /mnt/initfs is the same as in maemo 21:03
suihkulokkiso you need to make symlinks from /usr/lib/hotplug/firmware to /mnt/initfs/usr/lib/hotplug/firmware 21:03
apple2thank you very much :)21:03
apple2that was useful21:03
apple2I ll try in a minute21:03
apple2___suihkulokki bluetooth is working now21:16
apple2___:)21:16
apple2___that was cool thank you, man21:16
apple2___I copied the firmware files for sure21:17
suihkulokkiapple2___: what's the names of the fw files on the 770?21:25
suihkulokkiapple2___: and very cool that it works :) 21:25
apple2___yes21:25
apple2___the fw files21:26
apple2___are21:26
apple2___3825.arm  3826.arm  brf6150fw.bin  mtlm3825.arm  mtlm3826.arm21:26
apple2___i dont know which one what is for21:26
suihkulokkithe brf one is bluetooth21:27
apple2___there arent more .bin files21:27
apple2___and by the way I still have no wifi and sound21:28
suihkulokki3825 and 3826 are the wlan chips, i think the mtlm versions are for some special usage21:28
apple2___thanks for the  info21:29
apple2___some ideas about wifi?21:29
suihkulokkimaybe we should for a own irc channel for n800/770 before we get kicked from here ;)21:29
apple2___ou yes21:29
apple2___I'm a newbie in irc21:30
apple2___sorry21:30
=== bspencer_ is now known as bspencer
=== robr__ is now known as robr
=== Blackgoth is now known as blackgoth

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