=== aTOmicDuDe is now known as ToddBrandt [04:22] hi. here's my newbie feedback on m-i-c. all the initial steps work very cleanly. i am very impressed. the final step, ie: image-creator -c create-live-usb says a bunch of stuff and then sticks on mkfs.vfat which is where it is right now. i think it's doing something since i see that /tmp/pdk-$$ is growing [06:47] good morning === asac_ is now known as asac [13:16] probably many people have already asked but what about the nokia 770/n800? [13:17] apple2: what about the nokias? [13:17] apple2: Use the FAQ, Luke... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/FAQ [13:20] I have read the FAQ lots of times? [13:20] There has been some thoughts that it will run on armel as well [13:21] apple2: There's no ongoing effort to do this in Ubuntu; you're welcome to start such efforts if an armel Ubuntu is what you're looking for [13:21] ok [13:22] we'd be quite happy if somebody were to start working on it, but we just don't have the resources at the moment [13:22] For now I'm workin on debian sid for nokia 770 [13:22] and its getting ok [13:22] apple2: There are efforts for Debian though [13:23] but ubuntu sounds better [13:23] porting debian is not difficult [13:23] for now i have working apt [13:23] with lots of packages [13:23] an dx server [13:23] with touch [13:23] X server* [13:24] and when is ubuntu mobile supposed to get out? === agoliveira is now known as agoliveira_brb [13:26] apple2: I'm working the debian/armel port (and running it on n800) [13:26] what exactly do you need/want/do ? [13:27] for now I'm just experimenting [13:27] are you using real X [13:28] or xomap [13:28] xomap [13:28] me too [13:30] and what about wifi manager? [13:31] apple2: "works" with command line stuff - ifconfig wlan0 up, iwconfig wlan essid "myessid", dhclient [13:31] network-manager seems unhappy.. [13:32] apple2: release date> we're looking at doing a full release with 8.04, so April. [13:33] agoliveira: here you go https://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/1192708879.html ..you will need a maemo account [13:33] so we'll have to wait [13:34] there are 500 discount codes to buy an N810 for for 99€ [13:35] there is a lot of mobile news today it seems with this announcement too http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/17/apple-planning-iphone-sdk-for-february/ === agoliveira_brb is now known as agoliveira [13:37] is n810 for sale already? [13:39] ian_brasil: Cool. I'll check it out right now. [13:39] apple2: i think it depends where you live i think [13:40] apple2: not until Nov [13:41] hope n800 gets cheaper :) [13:43] ian_brasil: Weird... I do have an account there but I can seem to be able to login... [13:44] apple2: it already is ~100eur cheaper in some shops [13:45] agoliveira: it took me 4/5 tries ...the first linux tablets are becoming collectors items especially the 770 ...get one if you can i reckon [13:46] ian_brasil: I already have a 770 almost since they were released. [13:48] I have a 770 and I don't think there is much of a revolution until now [13:49] agoliveira: ume running on my 770 would be awesome ..we just need someone to open up the wlan and power management [13:50] ian_brasil: Same old, same old... :) [13:50] agoliveira: yes, point taken [13:58] * agoliveira just can't login into maemo.org [13:59] ian_brasil: I noticed that you have a developer focus in some parts of the umeguide; I think it would make sense to hint at hildon-audit which sounds like a good QA tool for a developer [13:59] i had a wrong password which was my problem [14:00] and there are lots of people complaining on #maemo so looks like there is some site problem [14:01] lool: i have that on my ToDo list :) [14:02] ian_brasil: Personally I witnessed that the password (even when incorrect) is sent multiple times in a row; I suspect the midguard integration to be the culprit [14:02] And when the password is incorrect, this prevent retrying and doesn't display any error message (here), but on reload and after entering the proper one twice, it works [14:03] ian_brasil: Are you in a position to fix the "submit" button on the profile page? [14:04] lool: no, i am only a monkey not an organ grinder ;) === agoliveira is now known as agoliveira_lunch === cprov is now known as cprov-lunch [16:07] Mithrandir: ping [16:09] is ubuntu-mobile out now? [16:29] mfrey: hi? [16:35] Mithrandir: I sent an email to the list but while I have you -- I found that the reason the usplash does not work for the Menlow builds is that we are missing the usplash packes === agoliveira_lunch is now known as agoliveira [16:40] mfrey: ok, but there's nothing to be done about that, Gutsy is released. [16:40] Ward1983: Not as a release. The project is ongoing as you can see. The target for the first release is with Ubuntu 8.04. [16:40] Mithrandir: ok but moving forward -- what is the procedure now that Gutsy is released [16:43] Mithrandir: not missing packages in the repo, missing packages in the fset [16:43] amitk: correct [16:44] amitk: still nothing to be done about that. [16:44] mfrey: once we have PPAs for lpia, we can upload a new ubuntu-mobile metapackage there and include usplash in the ubuntu-mobile package. === Peter_home_ is now known as Peter_home [16:48] Mithrandir: nothing to be done in Gutsy, true, but I think mfrey is asking it to be fixed in image-creator. I am assuming they are running image-creator from git. mfrey? [16:48] agoliveira, and if i want to fiddle around with it in a few weeks or so, can i allready test it? [16:48] agoliveira, and if yes, how? [16:48] amitk: correct -- that is how we generate nightly builds for our customer [16:48] Ward1983: Of course. Take a look here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/ [16:49] amitk: maybe this is a question for HappyCamp [16:49] mfrey: yes [16:49] HappyCamp A.K.A sodarock [16:50] (just in case he wasn't bliped :) ) [16:50] agoliveira, i did, and i just did again to make sure, but i can't find anything about how to test it [16:51] Ward1983: Install it on a chroot or device (like the Samsung Q1 Ultra) and start to play with it. What else do you want? [16:52] agoliveira, i want to know HOW to download it, where, i can't find it on the wiki [16:52] Ward1983: you can use dogtail on the UI, you can also rum autotest on the kernel [16:52] Ward1983: Have you seem the links " Installing UME test environment *"? [16:54] not to mention teh UME Guide, etc [16:54] agoliveira, i thought that was about creating a test environment on a regular PC to program for ubuntu-mobile ? [16:54] Ward1983: you could look on here http://umeguides.net/ as agoliveira mentioned [16:56] Ward1983: I don't understand what's your doubt. As I said above and it's on the docs, you can install the environment on your PC or in a device directly. From there you can play with it, install applications, hack into it, etc [16:56] ian_brasil, i didnt realist the isntallinfo would be there, but i now know [16:56] agoliveira, i know now, which is why i asked, because i didnt know [16:57] agoliveira, ian_brasil thanx for the info! [16:57] Ward1983: No problem. [16:57] Ward1983: OK...happy hacking ! [17:00] Just about time to start the meeting [17:00] good mornin' y'all. [17:00] davidm: do you want to do it this week? [17:00] good afternoon [17:00] * lool suspects Intel folks to schedule the join in their chat clients [17:00] Mithrandir, sure [17:01] #startmeeting [17:01] Meeting started at 17:01. The chair is davidm. [17:01] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [17:01] bspencer:'mornign Bob [17:01] good morning [17:01] Good Morning [17:01] evening [17:02] good morning, I'm grabbing the list from last week, one moment [17:02] mawhalen: Good morning Intel Happy People! [17:02] good morning [17:02] good morning [17:02] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20071018 is today's agenda. I think we should have a call for extra agenda items as the first item. :-) [17:02] You can update the meeting agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20071018 [17:03] Yes, does anyone have extra agenda items? If so please update the page. [17:03] While we leave time for that to happen shall we address the Action items from last week? [17:04] sure, it seems like I'm first out there. [17:05] I've requested a download area, but I just recently did that, and I suspect IS have had their hands full with the release [17:05] TOPIC Open Action items [17:05] you need the []-s around [17:05] so I'll follow up on that next week when the world has calmed down a bit [17:05] [TOPIC] Open Action items from last week [17:05] New Topic: Open Action items from last week [17:06] private builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up. Is still open. [17:06] Next in turn is me; well update didn't go terribly well as the new upstream releases brought many many changes and I had no proper test environment [17:06] lool started pulling patches from our 0.0.43 hildon-desktop git. In the end Intel wasn't able to verify the new changes on the ubuntu branch of hildon-desktop so we decided to stick with what was there and not risk the upgrade. [17:06] davidm: give me an action item again so it doesn't fall off the agenda? [17:06] I do have proper test environments now and should look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week [17:07] no fault of lool. Intel was late in providing the changes, etc. [17:07] Yes, [Action] private builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up. [17:07] so the update to hildon-desktop comes in the next gutsy update [17:07] [Action] private builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up. [17:07] I think you need to do [ACTION] at the start of the line [17:07] ACTION received: private builds: tfheen to get download area for proprietary builds set up. [17:07] lool, thanks for your help. [17:07] haha Mithrandir :) [17:07] bspencer_: Thanks to you too; I think we both tried equally hard and were both very confused [17:08] mjg59, did update hildon-desktop with some small changes at the last minute to get the brightness and volume controls into statusbar.conf [17:08] So is the action lool will look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week? [17:08] bspencer_: would it be possible for you guys to directly push changes into the bzr branch rather than what you do now where you have a git tree which nobody is entirely sure where is branched off from? [17:08] I'm afraid the update was too big too close to the release; but then I read that hildon-desktop saw a major rewrite in Hildon 2, so no surprize [17:08] davidm: Yes [17:08] [action] lool will look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week? [17:08] ACTION received: lool will look at the current issues with hildon-desktop this coming week? [17:08] davidm, Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. [17:08] Mithrandir, yes. We can update the ubuntu brach directly [17:09] [action] Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. [17:09] ACTION received: Intel should verify the ubuntu branch works and suggest changes. [17:09] s/suggest/make [17:09] > bspencer and ToddBrandt to sync up on what components from Todd should be uploaded to gutsy [17:09] I think that lool will have work for more time than that just with this item :) Hildon is going over a major makeove AFAIK. [17:09] we did that. We took out the software keyboard config for gutsy release [17:10] bspencer_: was there any resolution to the problem of other packages modifying hildon-desktop conf files? [17:10] agoliveira, really? I haven't heard about that. [17:10] agoliveira: i expect to devote more time to mobile stuff now that the release is out (except for a couple of SRUs in progress), but I have some low priority stuff to do in case I'm bored :) [17:10] bfiller, some discussion [17:10] bfiller, lucasr did show me a way to get statusbar items automaticlaly included [17:11] In general, many upstream modules must have been updated for Hildon 2 [17:11] bspencer_ do you want an action item on the "bspencer and ToddBrandt to sync up" [17:11] but no consensus on how to remove the configuration items from the hildon-desktop pkg. [17:11] So we should probably upload all our modules; this is a pre-requisite to send our fixes anyway [17:11] davidm, no. We finished that [17:11] K [17:11] bfiller, anything else about that? [17:11] Err s/upload/update, sorry [17:12] [topic] TODO for gutsy [17:12] New Topic: TODO for gutsy [17:12] davidm, nice timing :) [17:12] > Peter_u3 to talk to telepathy upstream about new libtelepathy. [17:12] bspencer_: I know bfiller was interested in the status of the patches he sent you [17:12] bspencer_: so do marquee_plugins and moblin-applets no longer directly modify the conf files in the postinst? [17:12] little slow sorry, I'll edit it later [17:13] bspencer, Mithrandir, davidm, ok. [17:13] bfiller, I don't know if marquee-plugins ever did that. Maybe they did and I wasn't aware. [17:13] but there is no resolution [17:13] [Action] bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages [17:13] I talked with Rob and Empathy author and they both told me the upgrade from 0.0.55 to 0.2 is safe [17:13] bfiller: They no longer do [17:14] mjg59, bspencer_ : ok, thanks [17:14] [action] bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages [17:14] .... ? :) [17:14] [action] bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages [17:14] ACTION received: bspencer to resolve issue with hildon-desktop configuration files and separate packages [17:15] thx. [17:15] I have to do that as the meeting chair.... [17:15] got it [17:15] * bspencer_ feels less powerful [17:15] But that makes it easy for me to cut and paste :-) [17:15] Peter_home, thanks for the update. [17:15] so feel free to do that Please... [17:15] davidm, that is all the todo items for me. [17:16] OK [17:16] [topic] current items [17:16] New Topic: current items [17:16] I don't have any on the web page in the wiki, does anyone have some? [17:17] davidm, update your page [17:17] * agoliveira added one and Mithrandir too... [17:17] [TOPIC] Pre-Alpha status (tfheen) [17:17] New Topic: Pre-Alpha status (tfheen) [17:17] davidm: There are two now [17:17] I guess it makes sense to talk a little bit about current state. [17:17] got it, my autoupdate failed ;-( [17:18] I agree [17:18] calculator, media player, pim, chat and flash player are in (in some form) [17:18] I think we have the games in as well, but they're useless due to missing 3D at least on menlow [17:19] * agoliveira agrees [17:19] Mithrandir, "are in" but far from complete, if even usable. [17:19] (did claws hildon make it in? I tried it but didn't see the hildon version ) [17:19] bspencer_: they were alpha deliverables from your end, so we don't expect them to be polished at all. [17:19] Mithrandir, I like the "at all" part. We hope to improve them significantly [17:20] cheeze is also there and hildonized. [17:20] bspencer, Mithrandir ... i'm running late today [17:20] just noting the suggestions smagoun made on the list respecting modifying email UI to make it palatable [17:20] bspencer_: Latest Claws wasn't uploaded due the release. [17:21] kyleN, yes. those were great. much improvement! should they be claws-based ? who can own it... we should chat about this somewhere/sometime [17:21] kyleN: This is a *very* long discussion [17:21] bspencer_: maybe a session at UDS is in order? [17:21] yes, such changes are big but probably essential [17:21] I'm less happy about the test plan though, or lack thereof. [17:21] +1 [17:22] bspencer_: we have lots of ideas and some rough specs that could be used as a discussion point [17:22] bfiller, UDS? [17:22] Ubuntu Development Summit [17:22] bspencer: yes [17:22] i'd like to suggest that adding an app to core is not just hildonizing it, but also involves modifying the UI in ways as yet to be determined [17:22] "in ways as yet to be determined" is the key [17:23] kyleN, right. I was discussing this same topic here yesterday [17:23] yes, appropriate for a small form factor screen and possibly gesture enabled etc [17:23] bspencer_: any Intel guys attending UDS? [17:23] we can all recognize that our apps are ad hoc at this point and need much love and a joining of hands for look/feel and usability [17:24] Mithrandir, do you want to chat about the test plan? [17:24] love is good [17:24] bspencer_: I'm all for it. [17:24] bspencer_: unsure if we should do it in-meeting or not [17:24] this needs to be formalized a a requirement somehow [17:24] The question is that if we divert too much from what hildon does, we might as well (have to?) trash hildon and use something else. [17:25] I think we should discuss this at UDS. [17:25] Make that "have to" [17:25] an action item to do so would be good [17:25] (test plan) [17:25] bspencer_ action item for test plan or UI issues? [17:26] both... start with the test plan [17:26] irc://logicsbox.jf.intel.com:6665/umd [17:26] for UI, there are multiple topics to discuss [17:26] mawhalen, wrong channel ? [17:26] sorry - [17:26] :) [17:26] [action] Review test place at UDS [17:26] ACTION received: Review test place at UDS [17:26] UI: ownership, how to get a higher quality of usabilty and consistency, process [17:27] [action] Review UI issues at UDS [17:27] ACTION received: Review UI issues at UDS [17:27] s/UI/ Apps [17:27] * agoliveira gets dizzy just with the implications... [17:27] davidm: Ah, reminds me I would like to know what I should bring to UDS; I'd prefer not bringing the Q1U unless it's really useful [17:27] I think someone should have a UI plan going into UDS. It will be much more effective that way [17:27] I have created some items for UDS and both are already on my list [17:28] agoliveira, I don't (yet) think we need to separate from hildon. We can get very nice looking system with the hildon framework. [17:28] (Because I'll have lots of packages already and I fear losing it or breaking it or agoliveira pushing me in the stairs) [17:28] I am planning on bringing my Q1 and my Crown Beach since it's quite easy for me to move things around in the US. [17:28] ok, move on then? [17:28] sure [17:28] bspencer_: I agree. Don't think hildon is the problem [17:28] [Topic] Intel participation on UDS (agoliveira) [17:28] New Topic: Intel participation on UDS (agoliveira) [17:29] That's me... [17:29] HappyCamp, will be there (John V) [17:29] and Dan Johnson [17:29] (I believe) [17:29] s/Dan/Don [17:29] We kind of treated about this already. Following the UI issues, I would like to know who/when the Intel guys will be around so we can talk about it. [17:29] (oops) [17:29] s/Dan/Don/ [17:30] Don_Johnson ping [17:30] as a family man I'm just disappointed that I can't go trick-or-treating with my kids, a much anticipated activity [17:30] but I will be there too [17:30] Yes I'm here and will be attending UDS. I plan on putting together some test plan proposals to bring with me. [17:30] rustyl, won't, I think he has a conflict [17:30] bspencer_: I have my wife *and* daugter birthdays during this period so stop complaining :) [17:31] agoliveira, my condolences [17:31] i do have a conflict [17:31] so I will not be able to make UDS [17:31] rustyl, is there any chance you can attend part of it? [17:32] I have heard from my team that your presence is very important. [17:32] Even if you can only make a day or two I can schedule items around it [17:32] * agoliveira looks the other way, humming a song... [17:32] we need to write up expected USB client capacities for a customer. Is this covered anywhere? [17:33] Am I still connected? [17:34] davidm, rustyl sync? [17:34] Yes [17:34] exposing local folder to syncing, internet connection sharing. is the status of this final? [17:34] agoliveira yes you are connected [17:34] rustyl, you can't make any part of UDS? [17:34] let me review the dates again [17:34] rustyl, get your priorities straight man! UDS is where the action is. [17:35] s/action/geeks + beer [17:35] sorry if I'm off topic, but I need to know === mawhalen_ is now known as mawhalen [17:36] kyleN if you add it to the wiki I'll make sure to cover it. [17:36] davidm, agoliveira ... that's all we have for UDS that I know of. 3 people: Don, JohnV, Bob [17:36] OK [17:36] not sure which wiki you are referring to [17:36] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/Meeting/20071018 [17:37] thx [17:37] agoliveira, you should suggest UDS held on that beach. [17:37] OK, are we done with UDS attendance? [17:37] Peter_home: I'll, believe me :) [17:37] davidm: I guess so [17:38] if so is the next topic Application development and upstream (bspencer)? [17:38] yes [17:38] [topic] Application development and upstream (bspencer) [17:38] New Topic: Application development and upstream (bspencer) [17:38] we covered some of this and it is a larger UDS topic probably [17:38] but I wanted to discuss how to do significant app development on upstream projects [17:38] for example, pushing up a patch at a time to claws email will not result in the UI that was sent out earlier [17:39] (from pepper guys, can't remember who sent it) [17:39] so it may need to be done in bigger chunks [17:39] bspencer_: that was me, I have more where that came rom [17:39] with a temporary repository and ownership while these big changes are going on. [17:39] smagoun, nice [17:40] bspencer_: note, Pepper guys are now Canonical guys ;) [17:40] I know that we continually come back to not wanting to fork, so I think we have to agree on a balance [17:40] bspencer_ PPAs can be used for that [17:40] bfiller, ok... but you are a category :) [17:40] bspencer_: indeed [17:41] I think for the key apps like email, chat, etc., it requires that we have a central hildon-specfic repo [17:41] When the changes are larger though, we must make sure we don't keep a burden of merging them after each new upstream release for too long [17:41] since changing claws to look like the mockup is a big piece of work, what about leveraging upstream to do that work? [17:41] agoliveira, PPAs... I'll have to familiarize myself with how these can work. [17:41] added my action item to the wiki [17:41] smagoun: I don't think that would work. [17:41] smagoun, that is a good idea, but we have to be clear on the final product request [17:42] bspencer_: Distribution and source management is not a problem while implementing the changes IMO; the issue is long term maintenance [17:42] so we have something that looks like the other applications [17:42] bspencer_: we have that problem anyway, even if intel or canonical is doing the work :) [17:42] lool, agreed. [17:42] If you fork claws and make that claws-hildon, then you have to maintain that fork forever ... or be dropped :-/ [17:43] lool, true. You have to continually resync with upstream's new additions as they make things you want [17:43] which is a reason for us to prefer upstream projects which are GNOME ones, since hildon is one of the GNOME Mobile widget thingies [17:43] Perhaps we can convince upstream claws folks to have two flavors of the interface in their own tree and to start direct distribution of these two flavors upstream [17:43] lool, it works if you have write access to the hildon repository [17:44] in the short term that may not be possible thogh [17:44] For example some webapp projects have a web and a wap interface (don't laugh), we could sell them that they will soon be popular on N800 and MID devices :) [17:44] Looks like this is another item for UDS. [17:44] bspencer_: I think we're talking of upstream apps here, not hildon [17:44] bspencer_: Or do you mean the Nokia maemo archive upload rights? [17:44] lool, I mean tthe hildon-version of claws, for example [17:45] [action] further discussion of Application development and upstream at UDS [17:45] ACTION received: further discussion of Application development and upstream at UDS [17:45] bspencer_: Yeah, and it takes some time to gain enough trust to achieve this [17:45] lool, right. OK. UDS it is. [17:45] thanks davidm [17:45] lool, if most changes are UI specific, I don't think so. Considering maemo garage have many many hildon UI apps hosted rather than hosted in upstream apps [17:46] We might also need to think of "corrupting" them properly; selling the idea /fast/ might include organizing in person meetings, blogging with screenshots, or sending them a device to hack on it themselves too; random ideas... [17:46] I have to say where possible we really want upstream to take the changes so we don't maintain a fork forever. [17:46] Peter_home: I think there's a specificity here in that we need exact sync between upstream's releases and hildonized releases [17:46] lool, good ideas. Still, for the big 5-6 apps, I think someone who has a lot of skin in the game may need to own them "forever" [17:47] meaning, continue to make sure they are picture-perfect and bug free [17:47] Peter_home: Say, a new release of claws comes out, the hildonization patch doesn't apply anymore, we might not be able to delay it until someone appears to update it [17:47] Or we update it ourselves, but then we're upstream of the "delta" and potentially investing large chunks of times forever [17:48] bspencer_: Oh I agree [17:48] bspencer, no matter what someone with skin in the game is going to have to own them but if the changes are upstream there is less work involved in the ownership [17:48] lool,IMHO, sync seems not avoidable. We have to sync by maintainers for hildon UI version [17:48] bspencer_: It makes sense to have an owned code base for some key apps or for some themes etc. [17:48] bspencer_: But the less, the better [17:48] it is a balance between a distribution (who doesn't want to own any apps) and a company making the end product where everything is supported by them [17:48] lool, agree, less, better [17:48] don't you think upstream would welcome changes to the apps that make them "killer" on a mobile device [17:48] Peter_home: I didn't get your previous remark [17:49] Unless we have resurces enough to just fork it and have our way. [17:49] davidm: I fully agree with your remark: if the changes are close together, the maintenance burden for two versions is smaller [17:49] agoliveira: we don't, unless bspencer_ or rustyl can come up with some cash? [17:49] mfrey, possibly if they see the value, but that becomes part of our job to try and help them to see the value in taking the patches [17:49] smagoun: Exactly :) [17:49] smagoun, let me check my pockets [17:50] smagoun: Sounds good! [17:50] ok. thakns for the brain dumping. More at UDS. [17:50] lool, I mean, for a few key apps for MID, we really have to have a specific version and sync with upstream by ourself. like many projects on garage. [17:50] Peter_home: Ack; but then we still need to identify an upstream for them too [17:50] bspencer_: Nokia walks this line between owning and distrubuting.. [17:50] Nokia core apps are Nokia owned, true? Browser for example [17:51] bspencer_: yes [17:51] bspencer_: Skype is another example. Nokia made the "hildon" mods and is maintaining it [17:52] bfiller, did they or did they pay skype to make the changes for them? [17:52] lool, yes, if have to, let's do it now. Actually we have a good start point for those already in gutsy . [17:52] Again, we're in a slightly different situation in the way we handle hildonization right now: we mod packages for the lpia architecture, but we expect to do uploads for all architectures at once [17:52] davidm: Skype did not do it [17:52] davidm: good question, I'm not sure. But I know it's propiertary [17:52] This is an organizational choice, and there are solutions, but this has a direct impact in the way we maintain things [17:53] I just want a clear path to a professional looking result [17:53] instead of a collection of open source apps [17:54] bspencer_, yes, good point, totally agree. [17:54] Peter_home: But who? Proving its possible is an achievement, but when people move on to $next_project, who will continue maintenance? [17:54] bspencer_: paying customers will demand that (prof looking results that is) [17:54] bspencer_: we're with you - my group at canonical *needs* those professional apps [17:54] [17:55] lool, MID is a category existing for a long time, just like phone, from my point. [17:55] Unless we fork, I see a hard time ahead trying to convince upstream to include the necessary changes. [17:56] lool, what agoliveira said is also a key fact. If only UI changes, it's difficut to persuit [17:56] I don't see us solving this today, further conversations at UDS and elsewhere are going to be needed I think. [17:56] I'd like to propose we go to next agenda. We can discuss more online and at UDS. [17:56] +1 [17:56] Done [17:56] :) [17:56] [topic] Expected USB Client functionality for customer (kyle) [17:56] New Topic: Expected USB Client functionality for customer (kyle) [17:57] my main question is what is the committed USB client functionality, capacities we know we will have and can be communicated to a customer now. is it written up? 1) Are the syncing issues resolved (how is the mid's ext3 file system exposed to a fat file system)? 2) is connecting sharing actually gong to happen. Is the software already in place? Etc. [17:57] Ctrl+V :) [17:57] ;) [17:57] lool, actually a example for moblin-chat, I have sent my patches to empathy author and his feedback is keeping this branch in molin site [17:57] rustyl, ping do you have an update? [17:57] * rustyl catches up [17:58]