=== Vorian_ is now known as Vorian
RAOF_knix: When it (Eclipse) takes less than 19 hours to build on my amd64 box with 1 Gb of ram01:11
knixMakes for fun patching :)01:12
ajmitchRAOF_: get 4GB01:12
crimsunwell, these flac fixes are full of dismay.01:12
ajmitchyou won't regret it01:12
ajmitchhello crimsun01:12
RAOF_ajmitch: Maybe I should, at that.01:12
TheMusocrimsun: How so?01:16
crimsunTheMuso: just looking at CVE-2007-4619 and the work necessary to backport the malloc() checks.01:17
ubotuMultiple integer overflows in Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC) libFLAC before 1.2.1, as used in Winamp before 5.5 and other products, allow user-assisted remote attackers to execute arbitrary code via a malformed FLAC file that triggers improper memory allocation, resulting in a heap-based buffer overflow. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2007-4619)01:17
ajmitchsounds evil enough01:17
=== _czessi is now known as Czessi
=== chuck_ is now known as zul
=== RAOF_ is now known as RAOF
imbrandonquiet night03:18
ajmitchrelease time, so noone has anything to do03:18
ScottKgutsy-proposed is calling you ...03:19
ScottKWell, not ajmitch, since he doesn't upload anymore ;-)03:19
ajmitchcorrect, which is why I should disable my core-dev membership03:20
ajmitchthanks for reminding me to do so03:20
ScottKGimme a few minutes and I can whip up a Dapper source backport for you to upload.03:21
imbrandonheh its been a few months since i've uploaded a main package, i'm sure that wil change in the next few weeks03:23
pwnguinspeaking of sponsorship03:23
imbrandonpwnguin: need something ?03:23
pwnguinwell yes03:24
pwnguinive been massagign thinkign finger, and figured id see what i could do to get it fixed up nicely in hardy03:24
crimsunWhat a far cry from Breezy, heh.  Uploading right up til the archive froze.  Oh wait, I guess it's not that different after all...03:24
imbrandonjust poke me, long as it isnt UDS week or OpenWeek i should have time03:24
pwnguindo you need extra acks when someone's offered a NACK?03:24
ajmitchcrimsun: except that 'archive freeze' was about an hour before the isos were official & public03:25
RAOFimbrandon: Negative ack.03:25
imbrandoncrimsun: hehe yea breezy and dapper and feisty right untill freeze, gutsy is the only time i have "slacked" afaik03:25
bddebianI have some package fuckage I did if someone is bored :-)03:25
imbrandonpwnguin: afaik one nack negates all ack's, the package must be fixed03:26
imbrandonif the policy is still the same03:26
pwnguinthats sad03:27
pwnguinwell, i havent officially recieved an NACK03:27
pwnguinso if im rather careful about it...03:27
imbrandonyea it rarely happens but when it does it needs to be fixed03:27
pwnguinthe deal is03:28
pwnguinthe bugs arent in thinkfinger03:28
crimsunthe knights who say NACK03:28
RAOFSurely the NACK is pointing out actual problems?  So either you make an argument that it's too hard to fix and there's net benefit, or you fix it, right?03:28
pwnguinthinkfinger's pam module works fine with sudo03:28
imbrandonRAOF: right03:28
pwnguinit doesnt work so well with gnome-screensaver03:29
imbrandonbtw howdy crimsun , ltns03:29
RAOFIndeed.  Howdie crimsun!03:29
pwnguinit feels strange to block a package because it doesnt integrate well with packages that DONT integrate with anything03:29
RAOFSo argue that point?03:30
pwnguinsuppose i will03:30
imbrandonpwnguin: not sure about that specific instance , but yea as RAOF said i would just argue that point and it should stand03:30
pwnguinbut do you argue to the NACK guy or to some higher power?03:30
imbrandon"most" of the time the nack IS the higher power, but either03:30
pwnguindoes ubuntu regularly not include packages in debian testing?03:31
imbrandonno it should include all debian unstable , expiramental needs a specific "ask and you shall recieve" bug filed03:32
ajmitchautomatic sync happens from debian unstable, which is where packages for debian testing come from03:32
pwnguinright. are there cases where ubuntu vetoes a debian decision to put a package in unstable?03:33
ajmitcha few cases03:33
ajmitchthere's a blacklist of packages that don't get synced somewhere03:33
imbrandonafaik webmin is one03:34
pwnguinthis would be handy for me to look at, i think03:34
imbrandonthats the only one i know of03:34
ajmitchimbrandon: how about all the kernel packages back in the day?03:34
imbrandonahh yea03:34
imbrandonthose too03:34
slangasekwebmin isn't in Debian03:34
pwnguinthat doesnt count03:34
slangasekso any blacklist for that would be legacy03:34
pwnguinkernels dont count03:34
imbrandonslangasek: yea , thats all i could rember though03:34
pwnguinis there a period of time where people evaluate the blacklist and add things to it?03:35
ajmitchhowever I'm not an archive admin so I can't say03:36
imbrandoni think its just done on a "as needed" hing03:36
=== Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie
pwnguinah. so things can become unpublished03:36
imbrandonslangasek: is the blacklist in the seeds file , or ummm03:36
StevenKNo, the blacklist is seperate.03:37
imbrandonfigured so03:37
slangasekactually, there is a blacklist in the seeds repo03:37
slangasekand webmin is in it03:37
ajmitchwhat a surprise03:37
ScottKJust in case...03:37
slangasekAFAIK this is the blacklist in question03:37
ajmitchit's quality software03:37
imbrandonslangasek: ahh i was thinking i seen it on the list last i checked03:38
imbrandonbut its been 6 months since i looked at the seeds03:38
pwnguinjust so i understand: packages published in unstable but not previously published in universe need to be looked at rather than automatically pulled in?03:41
imbrandonno durring autosync they are pulled in03:41
RAOFpwnguin: Only after DebianImportFreeze as I understand it.03:41
ajmitchI believe that keybuk was giving them a cursory check before 'autosync'03:41
ScottKajmitch: Don't they just land in NEW.03:43
ajmitchScottK: I'm not sure of the exact order of events with syncs03:44
imbrandonsyncs MIGHT bypass NEW, i dont rember03:44
ScottKI know that requested syncs hit NEW.  Cause I had one rejected by (IIRC) Mithrandir.03:44
ScottKI'd figure the automatic ones did too.03:45
StevenKRAOF: Keep in mind the freeze names have changed03:45
* StevenK kicks GTK and GnomeVFS03:45
RAOFOh, of course.  I'll need to check those for Hardy.03:46
ajmitchStevenK: right, MagicalPixieDustFreeze is up first, no?03:46
* RAOF kicks programs that don't do GnomeVFS (emacs, I'm looking at *you*)03:46
StevenKRAOF: That'd rock.03:47
StevenKajmitch: Hmph.03:47
RAOFCome on gvfs!  Let me bask in your FUSE backend.03:48
imbrandonRAOF: easy to fix `sudo rm /usr/bin/emacs && sudo ln -s /usr/bin/nano /usr/bin/emacs` and stop using GNOME ;)03:48
StevenKRAOF: I'll hold down imbrandon, you belt him.03:48
=== rob is now known as robii
ajmitchget back under your bridge03:48
RAOFAlthough sshfs does much of what I want emacs to do.03:49
StevenKWhat's the GNOME API browser thing called?03:49
=== robii is now known as rob
StevenKGreat, ta03:49
pwnguinRAOF: oh, is gvfs going to be FUSE based?03:49
* ajmitch really can't remember, having not used it03:49
RAOFpwnguin: No, but on linux it'll have a FUSE linkage.03:50
pwnguinit would be neat if nautilus could set up something so that mplayer would play nice03:50
RAOFpwnguin: It *can't* be FUSE based, because FUSE doesn't work on !linux03:50
pwnguinthats what i thouhgt03:50
pwnguini didnt think they hated BSD quite that muhc03:50
awalton__pwnguin: it uses fuse03:50
awalton__but it isn't fuse-based.03:51
awalton__it also can use samba03:51
RAOFawalton__: Uuuum.  In what way "can use samba".03:51
awalton__well, it's a VFS, so it can mount samba shares03:52
RAOFAh, right.03:52
awalton__the code already works for that, I've been running Gvfs for a couple of weeks now and it works great.03:52
imbrandoncifs in the fstab for the win, fsk what the app supports, if its mounted it better "see" it ;)03:52
RAOFThat's not what we're talking about.  gvfs will *export* it's stuff over FUSE.  So apps that don't use gvfs can still work.03:53
TheMusoSo what happens for non-Linuxes, like solaris? Will they still need gnome-vfs?03:53
RAOFThey just won't get the FUSE linkage.03:53
jdongit seems liek the BSD's are picking up FUSE too03:54
RAOFThe idea is that everything that can use gvfs (ie: all gnome apps) will.  And the FUSE stuff is just to make non-gnome apps less annoying.03:54
jdongat least desiging fuse compatible API's03:54
imbrandonbah, i just say mount what you need03:54
jdongso that'll be cool when it all works out03:54
imbrandonkde trys that shit with media:// and such, vfs's need to diaf03:55
TheMusoimbrandon: But they really do make things easier for users, particularly when you just want to browse a network, and grab a file quickly.03:56
TheMusoMounting is just too much screwing around for something so small.03:56
* ScottK just uses sftp and doesn't worry.03:56
RAOFOr to browse a network, *edit* a file quickly...03:56
TheMusoRAOF: That too.03:57
awalton__theoretically, the vfs could just be a smart layer over mount.. but practically it doesn't make a lot of sense.03:57
RAOFIt's kinda annoying to scp, edit scp03:57
TheMusoI'm the same in that anything I use regularly, I mount, other than that, vfs FTW.03:57
RAOFgvfs may even end up cross-desktop, too, from what I remember.03:57
pwnguini definately dont want my laptop mounting cifs on boot03:57
imbrandonuntill EVERY app supports the vfs without interaction, e.g. a lower layer , they will be crap imho03:58
pwnguinwell thats what fuse is for03:58
pwnguinits a vfs in userspace api03:58
pwnguinwith kernel support03:58
awalton__well gvfs/gio was designed to go into glib, to supercede the posix-based stuff, so that any one who just wants to open a file will use it.03:58
awalton__(of course the posix stuff will still be there, so there will always be apps that won't use it)03:59
imbrandonif i cant copy from the address bar of my app and paste it to a cli and use it, it wont fly imho04:00
imbrandonand vice versa04:00
pwnguinwhich again, is what fuse provides04:00
imbrandonsweet, it it works that way great, i just have never seen it in action04:00
=== Vicfred is now known as Vicfred[Gutsy]
pwnguinyou've never used sshfs?04:01
awalton__imbrandon: definitely try it out04:01
awalton__it's great.04:01
pwnguinfuse is awesome04:01
imbrandonpwnguin: only via fstab, i only use a FS if i can mount it in fstab04:01
jdongimbrandon: FUSE is the best thing ever :)04:01
jdongimbrandon: FUSE can be mounted in fstab04:01
imbrandonjdong: i know04:01
jdongsshfs keeps me alive :)04:01
pwnguinthe strike against FUSE is that it requires kernel support04:01
jdongpwnguin: agreed....04:02
pwnguinbut what it does is allow user space apps to present a mounted FS04:02
pwnguinvia the fuse kernel module04:02
imbrandonhow is that an issue though, load fuse once, use any fuse based FS right ?04:03
pwnguinwhenever a write comes in to that fs, it's passed on to the user space program that registered itself to handle it04:03
pwnguinits an issue when you run GNOME on BSD04:03
pwnguinor Solaris04:03
pwnguinlinux aint the only kernel in town ;)04:03
imbrandonor win32 or osx ?04:03
ajmitchsolaris is far more common, I'd say04:04
pwnguinwell, osx has a fuse driver04:04
imbrandoni run kde on darwin quite often ;)04:04
awalton__well, it doesn't sound like it would be too hard to write modules for other OSes and then just use the same userspace code.04:04
ajmitchimbrandon: you're not normal04:04
awalton__but I haven't looked under the hood of FUSE so I wouldn't know.04:04
imbrandonajmitch: hehe04:04
imbrandonajmitch: its actualy faster with the darwin kernel on my G3 vs a linux one04:05
imbrandonwith KDE04:05
imbrandondunno why04:05
jdongOSX and FreeBSD both seem to have a FUSE driver04:05
jdongbut yeah, FUSE aims to provide a uniform API for userland FUSE FS'es04:06
pwnguindarwin ought to have a fuse driver04:07
pwnguinits based on mach04:07
ajmitch'based on' doesn't mean that it'd be easy to hack something in04:07
pwnguinit does when mach is about filesystems in userspace04:08
pwnguinreally, minix and friends feel like they've got it backwards when they talk about microkernels being safer / more stable04:09
pwnguinif my filesystem crashes04:09
pwnguini dont want to restart04:09
pwnguini want to cry04:09
pwnguinsame goes for MM04:10
pwnguinhardware drivers, on the other hand...04:10
imbrandonwow the FUSE for darwin/osx was paid for by google04:10
awalton__yay google.04:11
TheMusoSurely that means OS X can also get NTFS 3g.04:11
=== homanj_ is now known as homanj
pwnguini didnt know that guy worked for google04:12
pwnguinamit singh:04:13
pwnguinManager of Macintosh Engineering04:13
* imbrandon wonders how much bandwidth ubuntu.com is pushing right now 04:31
pwnguinim pretty sure drupal errors are cheap04:33
ScottKSo "partner" is now an Ubuntu component: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opera/+publishinghistory04:35
imbrandonsounds alot like commercial04:37
awalton__I think that's what they renamed it.04:37
ScottKIt is04:37
imbrandonahh so its not a ubuntu component, its a canonical one04:38
ScottKWell not the way it shows there.04:38
ScottKIt shows there as an Ubuntu component.04:38
lifelessits a component supplied by canonical which is for ubuntu.04:38
imbrandonerr lifeless WHAT!?!04:38
ScottKPackage source page says "opera in Ubuntu"04:39
imbrandonno commercial was on the canonical domain not the ubuntu one04:39
ScottKNot for.04:39
pwnguinwell now its on the launchpad domain04:41
imbrandonScottK, lifeless : must be a bug in LP in the way it shows, it dosent exist in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/gutsy/04:41
pwnguinLP has a source package to opera?04:42
imbrandonpwnguin: yes, but a source package can contain binary of opera to package ;)04:42
awalton__what imbrandon said.04:42
imbrandone.g. i can package any binary, i dont nessesarly have to have the source to make a src deb04:43
pwnguinwell i just saw "libx11-dev build-deps"04:43
pwnguinin the changelog04:43
imbrandonScottK: no its still on the canonical domain , http://archive.canonical.com/dists/gutsy/04:44
imbrandonthey just renamed the component and there is a bug in LP in the way it represents it04:45
ScottKimbrandon: Why do you assume it's a bug?04:45
imbrandonbecause it is not part of ubuntu, and it represents its self as if it is04:46
ScottKI agree with that, I just don't know that someone else didn't have a different idea.04:46
imbrandonactualy it dosent say what its for, those components could be for anything04:46
ScottKIt does.  https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opera says, "Opera in Ubuntu".04:47
JanCmaybe there is the need to compile some stubs or something?04:51
=== jdong_ is now known as jdonginator
imbrandondosent matter, opera is packaged in the canonical repo not the ubuntu one04:51
imbrandonJanC: ^04:51
JanCimbrandon, I was thinking about why the build deps on -dev packages04:54
JanCand I installed it from the canonical repo already earlier this night04:54
imbrandonScottK: confirm this for me please04:59
ubotuLaunchpad bug 153798 in launchpad "canonical partner repo packages showing as "in ubuntu"" [Undecided,New]05:00
imbrandoni just poked #launchpad about it, we'll see what they say05:05
StevenKOh, let's give them a URL one character per line, it'd drive them mad.05:18
ScottKGood.  Someon other than me complaining.05:18
FujitsuStevenK: Good idea.05:19
ajmitchI don't understand why people are so anxious & impatient today05:19
FujitsuIt's midnight where I am, so it *must* be released NOW!05:19
* ScottK doesn't understand why they don't just install the RC and then upgrade and relax.05:19
StevenKFujitsu: For a moment, I thought you were serious05:20
ajmitchStevenK: because we know that sabdfl will release it personally at exactly 00:00UTC05:20
FujitsuStevenK: Sure.05:20
StevenKajmitch: Which was 4 and a half hours ago.05:21
ajmitchthat's of no concern05:21
FujitsuStevenK: The pipes are clogged.05:21
ajmitchthough there was definitely a countdown then05:21
* TheMuso notes the time till he has to start getting ready to head down to Sydney for the Sydney release party.05:24
* ajmitch notes that he isn't going to any release party, and hasn't been to one yet05:25
StevenKajmitch: Why not?05:27
ajmitchbecause they never tend to happen05:28
ajmitchI can just waste time at home instead05:30
* StevenK sighs.05:31
StevenKNow there is talk about the whole world being the 18th before it releases05:31
ajmitchit happens every time05:31
FujitsuIt does.05:31
FujitsuThey never get it.05:31
macdthe more they refresh the closer it comes.05:32
macdthe just _know_ it05:32
minghuaI also find it interesting that many casual users assumes that Ubuntu/Canonical must be operating on British time.05:35
minghuas/interesting/amusing/, I think.05:35
ajmitchin recent times that's been quite true05:36
slangaseka watched iso never boils.05:36
FujitsuHi slangasek.05:36
* slangasek moos05:36
StevenKslangasek: Never burns, surely? :-)05:36
* Fujitsu sends some grass to slangasek.05:36
ajmitchslangasek: enjoying the tension of the people waiting?05:36
slangasekStevenK: get your own metaphor05:36
* Fujitsu accidentally hits the red button on the way.05:36
StevenKslangasek: I enjoy borrowing other peoples05:36
Hobbseemorning slangasek.  so you're not hungover, then05:36
slangaseka little early to be hungover, isn't it?05:37
slangasek(also not morning)05:37
TheMusoHobbsee: Not yet, you mean.05:37
ajmitchslangasek: you're with canonical - it's never too early, or late05:37
minghuaslangasek: You are still living in the US, right?05:37
Fujitsuajmitch: Hahah.05:37
slangasekajmitch: that's drunkenness, not hangovers05:37
slangasekminghua: yep05:37
FujitsuHobbsee: Nice one.05:38
HobbseeFujitsu: :D05:38
ajmitchtrue, being hungover generally requires that you actually stop drinking05:38
Hobbseeajmitch: haha.  jono doesnt do that05:38
ajmitchHobbsee: you should have been +o05:38
* TheMuso ponders joining -releaseparty to see whats going on...05:39
Hobbseeoh yeah05:39
FujitsuTheMuso: espeak won't be able to keep up!05:39
FujitsuHobbsee: You *are* evil.05:39
ajmitchisn't it great?05:39
StevenKTheMuso: I'd give you about 90 seconds in there... :-)05:40
minghuaFrom what I heard in -devel, I think staying away from -release-party is good for my health.05:40
ajmitchwall of text crits for 870005:40
HobbseeFujitsu: i know.05:41
TheMusoStevenK, Fujitsu, likely enough..05:41
macdIts easier to just watch the chaos05:41
ajmitchwatching the chaos as Hobbsee stirs away05:42
FujitsuIt's horrible!05:42
FujitsuHobbsee is doing a great job.05:42
Hobbseeajmitch: yup :)05:42
Hobbseethis is the best part about release :P05:42
macdyeah wait about 15 minuts till their buffers are full, then just go in hit the ubotu trigger for that and watch them all cry05:43
FujitsuBah. Evil LaserJock.05:44
macd"but it says RC on the download I want the real gutsy"05:45
macdcan't wait to see that one.05:45
minghuaThat #ubuntu-release-party is pure madness.05:56
robI'm glad that craziness is in there and not #ubuntu itself05:57
ajmitchloads of fun05:57
ajmitchjcastro: yo05:57
imbrandonugh cant sleep ( again )05:58
imbrandonheya whip05:58
StevenKimbrandon: Read some autoconf macros. Apparently, they can induce a coma05:59
jcastroimbrandon: welcome to the insomniac's club05:59
imbrandoni could compile hurd, bddebian hints its a bedtime story05:59
ajmitchI thought you wanted sleep, not pain06:00
imbrandonjcastro: btw i ment to ask , why the nick change? just something diffrent ?06:00
imbrandonajmitch: heh06:00
pwnguinif you're just looking to pass the time, http://ppa.launchpad.net/jldugger/ubuntu has several games i pulled from debian06:00
jcastroimbrandon: "jorge" was taken, and like I was telling aj, a nick based on an old shitty sega game that sucked wasn't so inspiring06:01
imbrandonyea , "brandon"06:01
imbrandonwas taken too06:01
* TheMuso is off.06:02
RAOFSee ya!06:02
bddebianWhat, someone mentioned Hurd? :-)06:02
ajmitchas a way to cure insomnia06:02
ajmitchdon't get all excited06:03
TheMusoRAOF: Will I be seeing you tonight?06:03
imbrandongnight TheMuso06:03
RAOFTheMuso: Probably not at this point.  Work and all. :/06:04
TheMusooh well06:04
* TheMuso -> gone06:04
RAOFHave fun anyway!06:04
bddebianGnight folks06:05
* ScottK despairs at ever making secvpn actually work.06:08
HobbseeRAOF: come anyway, dammit.06:19
* ajmitch would like to be there, but can't06:20
RAOFHobbsee: Maybe.06:21
RAOFHm.  Someone's ubuntuforums sig is "you can enable hyperthreading on non P4 systems!!!!!1111"06:22
RAOFHobbsee: Are you going to be there?06:22
JanCRAOF, well, Sun's T1/T2 chips have some sort of hyperthreading too  ;)06:23
HobbseeRAOF: yes.  therefore, you have to come.06:23
imbrandonhrm i wonder if Ideastorm is a (tm) ?06:23
RAOFJanC: :P06:24
ajmitchJanC: they have hardware threads, rather than the hyperthreading illusion06:24
JanCyeah, it's different, but in some ways it's similar too06:24
ajmitchthough the whole chip is designed around highly parallel loads06:24
* ajmitch got to put ubuntu on a T2000 at one point06:25
RAOFHT, aka "our chips really, really hate pipline stalls.  Let's make this happen as little as possible"06:25
JanCwell, it seems like Intel learned to go another path  :)06:26
RAOFThere's probably an 'e' in pipeline.  Positioning it in the previous statement is left as an exercise for the reader.06:26
StevenKRAOF: But that was because the pipeline was insanely long, right?06:26
RAOFStevenK: Yes.06:26
StevenKMy CPU theory is very rusty06:26
RAOFBecause having a very high clockspeed was good for sales.06:26
RAOFAnd for making your CPU dissipate >100W of heat.06:27
ajmitchmmm, toasty warm06:27
JanCI don't know the details, but I guess Sun makes sure taht they have enough I/O to keep data flowing through the CPU  :)06:27
StevenKAnd having the heatsink you sell by default only dissipate what the CPU can put out idle.06:27
StevenKOh wait, that was AMD06:27
* ajmitch fondly recalls that athlon xp running at >90C06:28
StevenKAnd that would be why. :-)06:28
RAOFThe P4 in my uni computer has a fan that has 3 settings: loud, worryingly loud, and 'geez I hope it's not going to die!'.06:28
JanCmy brand-new C2Q Q6600 runs at 30 °C or something like that  :)06:28
StevenKRAOF: Loud, worrying loud, and "Geez, that fan left a big hole in the case, didn't it?"06:28
ajmitchcoldest I've seen mine run at now was about 24C06:29
JanCand I can't even hear the fans in it06:29
ajmitchon a rather cold winters day06:29
RAOFThe first time I heard it on it's maximum settings I was seriously woried.06:29
* StevenK hasn't tried to monitor the temperature of his AMD6406:29
RAOF(Yay Sydney summers.)06:29
StevenKRAOF: (Agreed.)06:29
ajmitchyay dunedin winters06:29
JanCthe Q6600 was running at 24°C in the BIOS too, but I guess it might be a little warmer now06:30
StevenKThat isn't accurate, since the BIOS doesn't make idle calls06:31
JanCyou mean, it might be lower outside the BIOS?06:31
* StevenK nods06:31
JanCthat would be really nuts  :P06:31
RAOFAltough it's unlikely to be lower than ambient temperature :)06:32
JanCif they keep going that way, I'll have to isolate my next computer to prevent me from freezing06:32
StevenKI'd expect it to be a few degrees warmer than ambient06:32
RAOFI suppose with a peltier it *could* be lower than ambient temp.06:32
RAOFSpelling is for the week. :P06:32
StevenKRAOF: Oh, wah06:33
StevenKRAOF: Go back to marking, as punishment. :-P06:33
JanCnow, if they could invent better heat flow in laptops (my laptop shows 46-59 °C CPU temp most of the time while running)06:34
RAOFStevenK: No marking this week!  Test next week, then a couple of weeks, then *exams*!06:35
JanCand that's a mobile CPU, not a monster like this quad core thing...06:35
imbrandonhell my desktop run about 70C most of the time, well it did untill i replaced it this month06:35
StevenKRAOF: Ah, so you won't want to scoop your eyeballs out until you're marking the exams?06:37
RAOFPretty much.06:39
imbrandonwb LaserJock06:40
LaserJockchaos, simply chaos06:41
imbrandoni'm just waiting for "Gutsy Released" to show up on digg06:42
JanCbah, I wonder if my desktop uses no more power than my laptop, while being about 5x as powerful  :-/06:42
JanCwell, it probably uses more power, but when it would have a low-power CPU it wouldn't06:43
JanCand of course my desktop has no built-in LCD  :)06:44
dholbachgood morning06:47
luk_good morning dholbach06:50
dholbachhey luk_06:50
=== Hobbsee_ is now known as Foobar
=== Foobar is now known as LongPointyStick
kahrytanBug #15381208:16
ubotuLaunchpad bug 153812 in ubuntu "Package startup-manager for repository and possibly add it to a ubuntu release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15381208:16
kahrytanTag Bug #153812 as wishlist please.08:17
ubotuLaunchpad bug 153812 in ubuntu "Package startup-manager for repository and possibly add it to a ubuntu release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15381208:17
BugMaNgood gutsy for everyone! :)08:21
AnAntHello, if I use reportbug will it report to Ubuntu or Debian ?08:22
ScottKAnAnt: If it's the Ubuntu reportbug, by default it reports to Ubuntu.08:22
BugMaNAnAnt: on Ubuntu08:22
AnAntok, thanks !08:23
nenolodanyone here know anything about gnupg?08:32
Hobbseesure.  it exists?08:32
nenolodfor some reason, my gnupg setup has decided to stop signing e-mail, .debs, etcetera08:33
nenolodit says "pinentry-gtk2: Assuan processing failed: write error" :/08:33
ScottKnenolod: Are you on Gutsy (did you just upgrade)?08:46
nenolodScottK, the machine it is happening on is running 7.0408:47
norsettoLook at that, I just get in after a good night of sleep, and who is talking? The The-Sun-Never-Goes-Down-In-My-House ScottK!08:47
ScottKnenolod: Look in ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf and see if it there is 'use=agent' in it.08:48
ScottKnorsetto: Yeah.  I REALLY need to get to bed.08:48
nenolodScottK, no use=agent.08:48
ScottKnenolod: When you are signing, I think, pinentry only gets called if gpg-agent is involved, so my suggestion would be to add that and install gpg-agent if you don't have it.08:49
ScottKnenolod: Althought this is a Kmail specific page, the gpg part is generic: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/KMailGPGAgent#head-c6757d6675d3932eaeffb136479725842a81d9b608:50
* ScottK really goes to be bed this time... No, really.08:50
nenolodoh ffs08:53
nenolodit ate my key08:53
persiaAte your key?08:53
nenolodi created a new key, and it uses that one fine08:54
* nenolod figures out how to issue a revoke request08:54
* persia hopes nenolod either has a revocation certificate or never sync'd the first key08:54
nenolodpersia, yeah. i'm going to make a revocation certificate now- or try to.08:54
persianenolod: You need the secret key & the passphrase to generate the revocation certificate.  Perhaps you could generate one for the new key, and put it in a safe place?08:55
nenolodpersia, sounds like a good idea08:55
persianenolod: Also, if you're not sure about your backup & revocation procedures, you might want to set your key to expire in a year or so: extending expiry is fairly easy, but lost valid keys are annoying.08:56
nenolodpersia, yeah. it expires in few months anyway.08:56
nenolodoh ffs08:57
nenolodit won't let me generate a new key now08:57
nenolodgiving: "gpg: problem with the agent: Invalid IPC response"08:57
nenolodso maybe my key is ok08:57
persianenolod: Are you running an agent?08:58
persianenolod: Try exiting the agent, and starting the process again.08:59
nenolodpersia, no change09:00
persianenolod: Hrm.  I suspect something is funny with your user (or there'd be more bugs).  Perhaps try with a test user (perhaps on console) to make sure that gpg is working properly on the system, and with an agent (perhaps in a nested X, or alternate console) to get the settings right?09:01
persia(remember not to upload the test user key)09:02
=== ogra__ is now known as ogra
nenolodpersia, sec.09:04
nenolodit works with another user09:05
nenolodmaybe restarting will fix it.09:05
persianenolod: Try logout/login before restart.09:06
nenolodit works on console with my user.09:09
nenolodhmm. works with pinentry-curses, but not pinentry-gtk-2.09:12
persianenolod: Are you using GNOME or xfce?09:13
* persia refrains from recommending seahorse-agent09:13
nenolodwould take work with icedove?09:13
persianenolod: Why?  I won't recommend it because it depends on lots of libraries you probably don't want to load, but I'm not sure that the choice of agent and the choice of client are related in any way.09:15
huatsmorning all09:21
nenolodpersia, well since it works, i can probably export my private key09:26
nenolodand then just install gutsy on here09:26
persianenolod: Your original key, or the new one?09:26
persiaExcellent :)  Also, for peace of mind, you might consider making a hard copy of your revocation certificate.  It's not something you necessarily want to be easily available electronically, but it is something you'll want to be able to access if your computer melts.09:28
warp10Hi all!09:30
* minghua just backs up the whole ~/.gnupg dir.09:31
minghua(and hope that's enough)09:31
persiaminghua: Offsite?09:31
minghuagpg's man page is the most confusing one I've read.09:32
minghuapersia: Yes, on a USB disk.09:32
persiaminghua: That's probably good enough.  It's an interesting balance: some might say keeping your secret key offsite is an invitation for compromise to those that control the offsite facility, but just keeping revocation certificates offsite means one loses the ability to self-identify in the event of data loss.09:33
minghuaOh.  I don't think I have such high security concerns.09:34
minghuaIf someone breaks into my home and have access to my GPG key backup, I have more important things to worry about.09:34
persiaminghua: "my home" is offsite?  I was imagining non-human influences (EM field, fire, earthquake, etc.)09:36
minghuapersia: And shouldn't people never let their key leave them if they really care about key security anyway?09:36
minghuapersia: Oh.  So "offsite" means like somewhere across the country?09:36
* minghua is a pretty sloppy GPG key keeper.09:37
persiaminghua: Perhaps.  Key maintenance is always a balance.  I usually define "offsite" as "not in the same physical building", although I don't typically use adjacent buildings (and I've never been involved with a catastrophe with more than ~1km direct influence)09:38
minghuapersia: I keep one copy on a USB disk, another one on my laptop.  Is that really bad maintenance?09:40
* nenolod waits for gutsy ISO to finalise09:40
slangasekminghua: keeping one on your laptop is regarded as poor maintenance...09:41
minghuaslangasek: But my USB disk partition is not encrypted, I always feel that there is a higher chance that I lose my USB disk than my laptop.09:42
slangasekminghua: a laptop is a higher-profile target for theft09:43
minghuaI realize it's poor maintenance, I just don't know how to do better.09:43
minghuaThat's true.  I hear a lot of stolen-laptop-and-gpg-key stories.09:43
persiaminghua: Obviously, you should have a dedicated offline keysigning machine, in a secure facility, with several revocation certificates in alternate secure facilities :)09:43
minghuapersia: Riiiight.09:44
slangasekpersia: don't believe everything you read on Manoj's website...09:44
minghuaI think I'll delete my key from laptop, keep the copy on my desktop at home, and go back to using my USB disk with my laptop.09:44
minghuaIt will be a bit annoying to have to keep the USB disk with you, though.09:45
persiaMore generally, it's good practice to restrict keys to location-specific devices, perhaps with some encryption.09:45
minghuapersia, slangasek: Thanks for the suggestions.09:45
slytherinHobbsee: ping09:45
persiaslangasek: heh.  I do like the keysigning protocol though.09:45
minghuapersia: Location-specific devices?  Like what?09:45
persiaminghua: "my desktop at home"09:46
persiaminghua: More basically, my recommendations and your published plan differ by the carrying of the USB key with the secret key.09:46
minghuapersia: So I should always connect to the desktop at home and sign stuff there?09:47
minghuaThat's probably too much trouble for me.09:47
persiaminghua: Um.  remote-network-accessible secret keys are a whole other level of dangerous.  Perhaps a known safe master key, which signs a minor key, with which you sign routine things.09:48
minghuaActually, I think the first story that makes me thinking about the security of my key is from slangasek. :-)09:48
persiaminghua: On the other hand, the web of trust has been hacked a couple times, so there's a strong possiblity you aren't you anyway.09:49
minghuapersia: Even IP-restricted, SSH-key login only remote accessible machines?09:49
persiaminghua: The possibility of an exploit to get into that machine is higher than the possibility of an exploit to get into a powered-down firewall'd device, but like I said before, it's about the level of protection you want for identity.09:50
minghuapersia: Err... What is the difference between a powered-down firewall'd device and a powered-down device with no firewall?09:52
persiaminghua: Wake-on-LAN09:52
minghuaMy home desktop won't be on 24/7 anyway.  I think I'll stick with the "carry a USB disk with the whole key" plan.09:53
minghuaNot perfect, but better than I currently have, I suppose.09:53
RAOFHow about 'gpg keys on LVM-on-crypto laptop'09:54
persiaRAOF: better than keys-on-laptop, but as slangasek said, a laptop is a greater target than a USB key.09:55
minghuaIs the danger really that greater for un-encrypted filesystem, even if I have a strong passphrase?09:56
minghuaIf the laptop is stolen, I'm going to revoke the key regardless, I think.09:56
persiaminghua: Sure.  The attacker only has to hack ~128 bits of passkey rather than 1024 (or whatever) bits of secret key.09:58
persia(plus most passphrases are within a 50-80 bit set due to the preference for printable characters, etc.)09:59
zul_morning party people09:59
minghuapersia: And that's assuming they really want my identity instead of just my laptop, and they do it before I revoke my key, right?09:59
RAOFPeople tend not to choose (or remember) highly entropic passphrases, yes.09:59
=== zul_ is now known as zul
persiaminghua: Sure.  80 bits takes about 16 hours on household gaming hardware.  Where's your revocation certificate (don't tell me).10:01
persia(plus, they probably want your laptop anyway...)10:02
minghuaYeah, so I'll pass that as "not a greater danger".10:02
=== thekorn_ is now known as thekorn
minghuaSome other people's identity, maybe; but not mine.10:02
minghua(Hmm, I hope that quote don't come back and bite me when I apply for MOTU membership extension...)10:03
persiaminghua: Are you in the strong set?  If so, the compromise of your identity could compromise others...  (not that this is especially likely either)10:03
minghuapersia: I think not.  My key is only signed by one person.  A DD, though.10:04
nenolodminghua :D10:04
nenolodminghua, i'll sign your key if you come to my house :(10:04
minghuanenolod: Thanks, but I think no.  Unless you live in Houston.10:05
minghuaMore signature means more responsibility, after all.10:05
minghuapersia: I think not.  My key is only signed by one person.  A DD, though.  <-- (did you get this line?)10:06
persiaminghua: I didn't.  I believe you need to have 1) received two signatures, 2) made two signatures, and 3) have two independent paths to all points in the strong set (although these not need be bidirectional paths)10:07
persias/not need/need not/10:07
minghuaThat sounds a quite strong criterion.10:08
nenolodminghua, well. we're on the same continent at least :))10:08
minghuapersia: Thanks for all this talk.10:08
minghua(Although I really don't think I have the poorest key maintenance among MOTUs...)10:09
* persia is sure that's true10:09
nenolodi doubt i would have time to be a MOTU anyway. i do have time to bitch at MOTUs when they do horribly stupid things in debian/rules though :P10:10
* warp10 is away: AFK10:11
* pwnguin ducks10:11
minghuanenolod: Care to give an example of the stupid things?10:11
* minghua hopes he didn't do too many.10:11
persianenolod: There's no rush.  Any contributions are welcome.  If you get your keys up, and join the contributor teams, we can probably roll out your fixes faster (regardless of any future MOTU plans)10:11
nenolodi saw one use of local system data in a debian/rules10:12
nenolodbut it got rejected from debian archive10:12
nenolod(and rightfully so)10:12
persianenolod: Not accidentally,and not from a build-dependency?10:12
nenolodpersia, intentionally yes10:12
nenolodpersia, afaik it was dependant on environment somehow10:13
nenolodi forget what package it was, it was few years ago10:13
RAOF!away | warp1010:14
ubotuwarp10: You should avoid changing your nick in a busy channel like #ubuntu - it causes unrequired scrolling which is unfair on new users. The same goes for using noisy away messages : use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently - See also !Guidelines10:14
RAOFBah, wrong redirect, sorry.10:14
nenolodpersia, recently someone tried to package code of mine passing it off as GPL3 when the license was BSD-like10:15
nenolod(luckfully, it got rejected from both ubuntu review and debian reviews)10:15
nenolod(not that GPL is bad, but this particular code was not GPL, and it should have said so in debian/copyright)10:16
* minghua really hopes those packagers nenolod mentioned are not really MOTUs but only hopefuls.10:16
nenolodi'd like to see ubuntu take a different direction in packaging a few things than debian does10:18
persiaminghua: Life is balanced.  That's why we review each other's work, and then receive more detailed review from the archive admins.10:18
minghuapersia: Yes, on package reviewing, I like Ubuntu's system better.10:18
* persia doesn't see much difference other than REVU10:19
nenolodthe way audacious is packaged in debian is crap10:19
nenolodand the packager refuses to work with upstream in any way to ensure it is packaged in a way that is useful10:19
persiaActually, is there any review except NEW packaging for DDs uploading new packages?10:19
minghuapersia: And I am not condemning careless packagers, it's just about my faith on Debian/Ubuntu's quality.10:19
minghuapersia: AFAIK no.10:19
pwnguinwell, ubuntu basically lives with debian10:19
persiapwnguin: Not really.  We junk a lot, and change a lot more.  Each release is a greater variance as we have time/effort to do things.10:20
minghuapersia: When I say "Ubuntu's system", that includes REVU.10:20
persiaminghua: Right.  mentors just seems difficult to use somehow10:20
pwnguinpersia: when you junk something, does it stay junked?10:20
persiapwnguin: e.g. freecraft10:21
nenolodi'd say the 100% ubuntu packages are packaged more sanely than those imported from debian10:21
minghuapersia: Another difference is Ubuntu's package usually pass though more pairs of eyes.10:21
persianenolod: We (try to) require 0 lintian or linda warnings (let alone errors), but there's still stuff that isn't quite sane.10:21
minghuapersia: So obvious problem are more likely to be caught.10:21
nenolodpersia, i must wonder if i redid the packaging of audacious in a sane way, if it would make it into ubuntu10:22
nenolodpersia, the way it is packaged now is non-obvious10:22
persiaminghua: To some degree, although it's only 1 extra pair of eyes (MOTU packager + MOTU reviewer + archive admin) and the MOTU reviewer is optional from the last published meetings of MOTU Council (although still good practice).10:23
minghuanenolod: Does audacious packaging in Ubuntu satisfy upstream (I assume that includes you)?10:23
nenolodminghua, it does not presently because it is based on the debian packaging, which puts most features that users want in the -extra package10:23
pwnguinuh oh10:23
pwnguinthose features aren't mp3 support are they?10:24
nenolodno. stuff like submitting to last.fm10:24
persianenolod: It's certainly possible.  Before engaging in such an effort, I'd get in touch with some of the people who have touched the package, just to make sure your efforts would be in line with their ideas.10:24
minghuanenolod: I see.  I think audacious has enough user interests, so if you can point out the problems in packaging, I believe there will be MOTUs willing to work with you and fix it.10:24
nenolodpersia, I am in constant contact with le_vert, and he does not think last.fm is useful10:24
nenolodand apparently, shoutcast support wasn't useful either10:25
imbrandonnenolod: the ubuntu people that touched it10:25
nenolodimbrandon, ah. that's vasillis and Adri200010:25
persianenolod: If the issue is -extras, there's at least some interest in Ubuntu in keeping it out, as a minimal audacious in main is a goal for several people.10:25
nenolodpersia, yes. my plan is to split each plugin into it's own package, like xmms is done10:25
nenolodpersia, that way users can install exactly what components they want10:26
imbrandonand gstreamer and countless others10:26
pwnguincompiz is packaged the same way10:26
persianenolod: That's a lot of new packages, but definitely interesting (especially if the new packages could be combined with existing xmms / bmp / etc. plugins at a source level).10:26
pwnguinfusion, -extras, -extras-you'reinsane10:26
nenolodpersia, xmms and bmp are dead and should be dropped10:26
imbrandonhahaha you'll die if you try to get xmms out of ubuntu10:27
imbrandonthats a dead horse waiting to be beaten again10:27
persianenolod: For something of that scale, I'd suggest drafting a spec of the work to be done.  This would get some feedback on the idea from a wider audience, and also likely get more hands to help.10:27
pwnguini know at least one guy who wishes to be kept10:27
nenolodwell, audacious isn't actually an xmms replacement10:27
nenolodbut audacious 1.4 is an entirely different beast and is not source compatible with xmms in any way10:28
minghuapersia: I honestly thinking mentioning specs at this stage of discussion is rather discouraging...10:28
persiaRegarding dropping xmms and bmp: it's been discussed, but it's not as easy as one might think.  We just recently finally got it out of main, but will probably be shipping for another year or so.  Merging "plugins", and disabling xmms support as "unsupportable" and "bug ridden" might be a way to reduce the pain of a later shift.10:28
imbrandonminghua: nah specs can be carried over to the next cycle easy10:28
persiaminghua: Why?10:28
nenolodpersia, mostly the external thirdparty components10:28
nenolodpersia, are already packaged seperately10:29
nenolodit's just audacious-plugins which is a mess10:29
persiaAh.  If the source compatibility is completely broken, forget the idea of merged plugins.10:29
minghuapersia, imbrandon: My humble opinion is that, specs are really very Ubuntu-specific and internal stuff, and should be a concern of the MOTU, instead of the upstream developer.10:29
nenolodwell, being a motu might be interesting to me in the future ;)10:29
dholbachmore! MOTUs! :)10:30
geserHi dholbach10:30
nenolodthe way audacious has been packaged in debian has broken the rules several times over10:30
dholbachhey geser10:30
nenolodand i have had to tell le_vert how to fix it10:30
nenolodit's a little scary10:30
persiaminghua: To a certain degree, I can agree that a finalised spec is of interest to Ubuntu Developers, but I don't see why anyone (e.g. nenolod) who has an idea and wants to contribute can't draft something to encourage support.10:30
nenolodyes, a spec on fixing packaging of audacious-plugins is a good idea10:31
minghuapersia, imbrandon: If I were an upstream developer and was discussing packaging my software, and spec is mentioned, I most likely don't understand exactly what is needed (hell, I'm an MOTU and I don't), and will think "that's quite some bureaucracy, I think I won't bother".10:31
nenolodmaybe if people see that the idea is supported, maybe, just maybe, le_vert would fix it in debian10:31
persiadholbach: Do you really want to do a Q&A session at 12:00 UTC on the 19th?  Isn't that also the MOTU Meeting, followed by the Mentoring meeting?10:31
nenolod(but i doubt it.)10:31
persiaminghua: Ah.  makes sense.10:31
nenolodwhat i find scary is the people who build debs of audacious snapshots using checkinstall10:32
nenolodand then they bother us upstream about it10:32
minghuapersia: I know you are engaged in many discussions on IRC, so I would suggest you say "write things on the wiki" in the future.10:32
dholbachpersia: damnit, I meant 14:00 UTC10:32
persianenolod: Just in case minghua is correct, and my suggestion to draft a spec frightens you, I'm just suggesting the creation of a wiki page describing the effort, and what needs to be done.  Given the smaller scope (considering source incompatibility), perhaps it doesn't matter.10:32
dholbachpersia: thanks, sending out mails10:32
nenolodpersia, i have written specs before (although not for ubuntu)10:33
nenolodat first when ubuntu came out, i had doubts that many people would use it too10:33
nenolodbut even now I use it10:34
slangaseknenolod: what exactly is the problem with audacious-plugins packaging in Debian then?10:34
nenolodslangasek, most common usecases for audacious besides MP3 playback are in audacious-plugins-extra10:34
minghuanenolod: See?  I said people would be interested.  Better create a wiki page and start writing. :-)10:35
slangaseknenolod: which common use cases are you referring to?10:35
nenolodi'll just write a markdown page on my homedirectory10:35
nenolodgive me a sec10:35
persianenolod: Thanks.10:36
pwnguini wonder what popcon says about that10:38
proppygutsy rc out ?10:39
persiaproppy: That doesn't look like a candidate to me10:39
slangaseknenolod: so we'll get a link to this page of yours when you've got it written?10:40
coNP[uni]Hey MOTUs10:41
* persia wishes that the comment about MOTU joining process had been omitted from the recent email10:41
dholbachpersia: which mail? which comment?10:42
persiadholbach: My mail to ubuntu-motu@l.u.c.  There's lots of comments on the joining process, but no feedback on scaling for more Ubuntu-origin.  I should have drafted it differently, or skipped the last bit.10:43
dholbachpersia: what do you mean by that? getting more packages into ubuntu?10:45
proppy09:51:13 (9.94 MB/s) - `ubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386.iso' saved [729608192/729608192] miam10:45
persiadholbach: Rather:  Are we prepared to handle lots more package in Ubuntu?  If we are, how should we organise the effort?  Is this a MOTU function?10:45
dholbachin the long run we need lots of teams who handle certain groups of packages10:46
persiadholbach: That's one solution.  My fear there is that we might well end up with lots between the cracks.  It also only encourages more new packages within a team.10:47
minghuapersia: I suspect even if you drafted it differently, that part is still going to be largely ignored.10:47
Schnitzproppy: nice connection ;-)10:48
dholbachhey Schnitz10:48
Schnitzhi daniel10:48
persiaminghua: You're probably right.  Alas.  Unintentional evil and all that.10:48
minghuaflamewars will happen, no matter you ignited it or not. :-)10:49
minghua(not that I'm saying the getdeb thread is a flamewar, of course)10:49
persiaminghua: Sometimes.  My matches tend to fall on wet ground (and I don't think the getdeb thread is a flamewar)10:49
dholbachme neither, I'm really happy with how João is still trying to find a way to make collaboration happening10:50
pwnguinwhy exactly is ubuntu in the position of trying to host packages outside of debian10:51
Schnitzwhat does it mean when a bug is assigned to MOTU? that the motu team is working/taking care ?10:51
minghuaI am pessimistic about it.  Though I've always been a pessimist.10:51
persiaI think there is huge scope for collaboration, but I think someone Ubuntu-side (MOTU or not) needs to commit to wider universe and more frequent upstream updates as part of making that work, and I'm not sure the team to do that is well identified.10:52
minghuapwnguin: Users want to use them on Ubuntu, what's the alternative?10:52
pwnguinfiling ITPs?10:52
persiaSchnitz: It usually means someone thought that MOTU should fix it.  It doesn't usually mean that someone is working on it.  It shows up on the team task list, but that doesn't always drive member tasklists.10:52
minghuapwnguin: What if no sponsor is available?10:53
Schnitzpersia: okay i see10:53
minghuapwnguin: And what if the packager doesn't use Debian?10:53
persiapwnguin: There are a number of Ubuntu-origin ITPs, including pointers to Ubuntu packages.  There perhaps isn't the focus to get them in Debian-side (perhaps because the packager doesn't use Debian / hasn't tested on Debian)10:54
pwnguinim just trying to look at this from the perspective of a debian developer who's been told that ubuntu needs debian10:54
minghuaI don't think it's unrealistic to try getting into Ubuntu first.  As long as the ultimate goal is getting it into Debian as well.10:54
minghuapwnguin: I've seen too many RFS got unanswered for months.  I do agree collaboration with Debian is important, of course.10:54
pwnguinrequest for sync?10:55
minghuayes, request for sponsoring.10:55
persiapwnguin: Without Debian, Ubuntu wouldn't be.  Ubuntu isn't staffed to handle 15,000 source packages: only about 1500-2000 really get touched.  WIth more universe, the number of Ubuntu-maintained packages may grow, but that doesn't necessarily indicate interest in the remaining 12,000 packages not maintained by Ubuntu.10:55
Schnitzdholbach: please don't take a look at my other packages before i've sent you an email again, i think i have at least the maintainer mistake in the other ones.10:56
pwnguinaww crap10:57
dholbachSchnitz: and the version number10:57
dholbachSchnitz: that's why I only commented on one of them :)10:57
pwnguini forgot to set the package question answering to default10:57
Schnitzdholbach: ok great!10:57
pwnguinpriority=high on 1000 packages is not fun10:57
nenolodslangasek, persia, minghua, etc10:59
Schnitzdholbach: so i should use Ubuntu MOTU Developers <ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com> as maintainer, or did i get the wiki article wrong?11:01
dholbachSchnitz: yes11:01
dholbachSchnitz: you can preserve your name in the XSBC-Original-Maintainer field11:01
pwnguinsince there appears to be some smart audio peoples at the moment11:02
pwnguingstreamer suppport for s3m?11:02
persianenolod: The proposal makes some sense.  We'd probably want to align metapackages in such a way that users could satisfy sensible (limited) defaults with main+restricted, do a fair bit with main+restricted+universe, and do everything with main+restricted+universe+multiverse, perhaps meaning a requirement for "audacious-plugins", "audacious-plugins-extra", and "audacious-plugins-nonfree" or something similar.11:02
nenolodpersia, all plugins are free11:02
slangaseknenolod: separate binary package for *each* plugin? oh dear God no11:02
nenolodpersia, we have even managed to get upstream codec people to relicense their reference code under LGPL so that it can be used freely11:03
persianenolod: Would none of the plugin packages wish to depend on non-free libraries in multiverse?11:03
nenolodslangasek, gstreamer does it11:03
minghuanenolod: Clear notes.  Though I'm not sure about the gstreamer plugin structure statement -- doesn't it use -base, -good, -bad, and -ugly?11:03
slangasekno, gstreamer does not11:03
nenolodxmms does!11:03
persianenolod: I thought the point was to slowly make xmms more obviously redundant :)11:04
nenolodpersia, no, the point is to clean up the packaging of audacious to make it more useful for the current community which uses it11:04
* nenolod has no interest in replacing XMMS11:04
persianenolod: Ah.11:04
=== davro is now known as davromaniak
minghuanenolod: I think persia means partly "patent-encumbered" when he says "non-free".11:05
pwnguinuh, also cdbs?11:05
nenolodpwnguin, common debian build system11:05
pwnguini know it has fans11:05
pwnguinbut it also has enemies11:06
Ash-FoxI'm glad I live in a country where there are less patents that effects software.11:06
* persia only means universe11:06
persiavs. multiverse11:06
* persia must change physical locations - will read logs later11:06
minghuanenolod: Is it possible for audacious upstream to divide the plugins into "base", "commonly used", and "uncommon" groups?11:06
nenolodright now, debian and ubuntu ship libsidplay which contains a copy of C64 kernal11:06
nenolodminghua, we are considering making such a recommendation with 1.4.11:07
minghuanenolod: IMHO that's a saner packaging approach than "one package per plugin".11:08
nenolodi need to think more about that11:08
pwnguini dont see the massive problem with one package versus one large package11:08
nenolodwell, some people want to mutilate my work for the sake of fitting it on a livecd and stuff11:09
minghuapwnguin: I can't parse that.11:09
pwnguinone per package11:09
pwnguini dont see the massive problem with one per package versus one large package11:09
nenolodyeah, i agree with pwnguin11:09
nenolodthis is how many other distros do it11:09
nenolodit works pretty well11:09
pwnguini dont think you agree with me11:09
pwnguinbecause if theres no difference, you have nothing to complain about11:09
minghuaMaybe CD space, maybe main support, I don't know either, but I can imagine some.11:10
nenolodpwnguin, it's two packages at the moment11:10
slangasekpwnguin: as a user of audacious-plugins, I don't want to have to hunt down plugins one by one; which means I want a metapackage; which means that if this is the common case, there's not much benefit to having the individual packages11:10
nenolodpwnguin, with non-obvious assignments11:10
nenolodslangasek, then a better way would be to just kill off audacious-plugins-extra11:11
slangasekso fix the non-obvious assignments, there's no need to split it into bitty pieces11:11
slangaseknenolod: why?11:11
pwnguinslangasek: i dont think anyone was advocating the removal of metapackages11:11
nenolodbecause upstream is finding all of the people who join #audacious and go11:11
nenolod"LOL HY WHY CANT I USE LAST.FM" to be annoying11:11
slangasekpwnguin: er?11:11
nenolodand we might put a contract out on le_vert11:11
nenolodyou never know11:11
pwnguinjust start mailing irc logs to the bts11:12
nenolodpwnguin, great idea11:12
minghuaslangasek: I think even if it goes the one package per plugin way, there will still be a audacious-plugins meta package.11:12
nenolodthe reason why i propose splitting them up and using a metapackage is because then people who don't want all of the plugins presently in -extra can simply go11:12
nenolodapt-get install audacious-plugin-scrobbler11:13
nenolodor whatever11:13
slangaseknenolod: if you did that I might be honor-bound to take his place, and I'm somewhat resilient ;)11:13
pwnguinhow big is -extras in total11:13
nenolodpwnguin, huge11:13
nenolodpwnguin, it has like 20 plugins in it11:13
pwnguinhow huge?11:13
pwnguinin megabytes11:13
nenolodseveral MB, but that's not the point11:13
minghuaslangasek: one package per plugin actually sounds not a bad idea to me, if there are no archive maintenance concerns.11:13
huatsdoko and ajmitch : I'd like to see with you about zope / plone packaging....11:13
nenolodaudacious' behaviour can be different depending on what features you have available11:14
slangasekminghua: in which case you would presumably want audacious to continue depending on audacious-plugins as it does today, making the split pointless11:14
nenolodslangasek, no it doesn't11:14
nenolodslangasek, because it's -extras that is the problem11:14
slangasekminghua: there are archive maintenance concerns in Debian as well, but I didn't expect those to be persuasive to most people so didn't bring them up11:14
minghuaslangasek: what about only splitting -plugins-extras?11:14
slangaseknenolod: oh. your post didn't distinguish between -plugins and -extras11:15
nenolodminghua, might as well do it all11:15
nenolodthat way people who don't want to listen to WMA for instance can choose to uninstall it11:15
minghuanenolod: Then slangasek's argument stands -- does audacious need to depend on all plugins included in -plugins meta-package?11:15
nenolodminghua, it does not need to depend on any of them11:15
nenolodminghua, of course, it won't play audio without codecs, etc11:16
nenolodbut it will start up as long as you have libstdio11:16
slangasekso in the Debian sense of a dependency, it does need to depend on them11:16
minghuanenolod: How large is -plugins now?11:16
nenolod-plugins is smaller than -plugins-extra, carrying only the plugins on that list.11:16
slangaseksince "depends" means "needed to make it serve its purpose", not "needed to make it start and look at you blankly"11:16
RAOFWhy would you not want the ability to listen to WMA?11:17
minghuanenolod: I feel you should revise your notes and concentrate on the problem of -extras.11:17
nenolodminghua, no. there are problems in -plugins too.11:17
minghuanenolod: Maybe list the plugins one by one, and argue they should be split.11:17
nenolodminghua, audacious-plugins carries an ALAC decoder.11:17
pwnguinRAOF: maybe because it loads the plugin into memory if present?11:17
nenolodminghua, the legality of that decoder is questionable. If included, it should be in multiverse.11:18
nenolodminghua, moreover, the decoder has bugs11:18
RAOFpwnguin: Fair call.11:18
pwnguinRAOF: and you dont have any need for it? or because you think you can save liveCD space?11:18
pwnguini donno11:18
pwnguinim still on the install 'em all side11:18
* RAOF is too.11:18
minghuanenolod: What do you think of the idea of keeping a refined -plugins with essential and legal plugins, and split the rest?11:18
nenolodminghua, i think it's still non-obvious11:19
nenolodnenolod, if they see individual plugin names being installed, they will go "hey, i can apt-cache search for this"11:19
minghuanenolod: I think listing individual plugin names in package description is a good compromise.11:20
minghuaI don't really like many small packages, either.11:20
minghuaBut this is not really my call.11:20
minghua(I don't even use audacious now, sorry.)11:20
nenolodminghua, yes. i suspect you'd actually have to be an audacious user to understand why splitting is a good idea11:21
nenolodthat is more so than "i listen to MP3s on $10 speakers"11:21
slangasekno, I use audacious and think it's nutty :)11:21
pwnguini got tired of xmms being a crappy way to handle playlists11:21
nenolodwell, audacious has a playlist manager11:21
nenolodwe finished it in 1.411:22
pwnguinbecause nobody dared think maybe winamp was stupid11:22
pwnguini kinda like rhythmbox11:22
nenolodpwnguin, there's a lot fo stupid things in winamp :D11:22
minghuanenolod: You should try to convince slangasek, he has a much larger chance to make things happen than I do. :-)11:22
pwnguinbut this is a derail11:22
nenolodif it was a big deal to me11:22
slangasekminghua: but I'm notoriously set in my ways...11:23
nenolodi would just split each plugin into a seperate source package11:23
nenolodthus forcing everyone to do as i say11:23
nenolodor drop audacious11:23
nenolodit's 50% chance of suicide11:23
nenolodbut that's an inconvenience for everyone, and me too, so i doubt i would take the LAMIP approach11:24
minghuanenolod: It's possible to include multiple upstream tarballs in one source package (just to let you know ;-)11:24
nenolod(this is how they handle packaging plugins)11:24
nenolod(seriously. see http://lamip.sourceforge.net )11:24
minghuaslangasek: Do you think having a core package with essential plugins, and split the rest to separate package a sane idea?11:25
nenolodlamip is another approach in the same spirit of audacious11:25
nenolodit doesn't get enough attention11:25
=== Fujitsu is now known as Fujitsu_
nenolod(e.g. XMMS sucks, lets fix it)11:26
slangasekminghua: that doesn't seem totally unreasonable, but I guess it depends how many individual plugins are going to be regarded as "non-essential"11:26
minghuaslangasek: Right.  That's what I'm trying to persuade nenolod, but he doesn't seem to be interested in that approach.11:27
minghua(and since I don't use audacious, I'll shut up on this issue)11:27
nenolodminghua, the reason why is because it will be bureaucracy that settles the problem (like all debian issues) and in the end the users will be screwed and everyone will bitch11:28
nenolodor a different solution: everyone goes "hey. I listen to format X, include it in base"11:28
nenolodso -extras gets like 3 plugins11:29
nenolodor whatever11:29
minghuaWell, users always bitch, so I wouldn't really worry about that.11:29
nenolode.g.: what is "essential" to one person, is not "essential" to someone else11:29
nenolodso, we would still have the same basic problem we have now, except,11:30
slangaseknenolod: er, who's complaining about this behavior aside from you?  "users will be screwed" supposes a level of dissatisfaction with the current setup that I don't see evidence for11:30
nenolodslangasek, we get in #audacious on irc.atheme.org, many people who ask "why can't i scrobble with the debian/ubuntu/mepis packages"11:30
slangasekso if that's the primary complaint, that's easy enough to fix by moving the one plugin11:31
nenolodor "why is format A supported but format B is not"11:31
slangasekalso, audacious-plugins-extra is a Recommends:, so in the future will be installed by default11:31
=== Seveaz is now known as Seveas
nenolodand "why do I have to install a bunch of stuff I don't want to get the one thing I want"11:31
slangasek"cause it's not Gentoo kthxbi"11:31
nenolodslangasek, yes, well, that's one thing Gentoo gets right11:32
minghuanenolod: I suggest you ask them to complain to Debian/Ubuntu on your channel.11:32
nenolodinfact, the only thing Gentoo gets right11:32
nenolodminghua, we do.11:32
RAOFnenolod: In return for being unsupportable-by-design :)11:32
nenolodRAOF, yes.11:32
nenolodRAOF, i love it when i get bug reports, ask for emerge --info, and see 4 lines of CFLAGS11:32
slangaseknenolod: be honest, it's really the Mepis users complaining isn't it. :)11:32
nenolodRAOF, :D11:32
nenolodRAOF, then I tell them to get hit by a bus and close their bugs11:33
nenolodRAOF, somebody keeps telling users to not bother our IRC channel with packaging issues. I want to give them some of our SOC money when we get it.11:33
nenolodbut it's annoying11:34
nenolodbecause then they ask stuff like "well, why don't you TELL downstream how to package it"11:34
nenolodand they honestly seem to disagree on the "well, because we have lives" theory11:34
minghuaMy take is still that "users will always find a way to bitch".  If you split packages, then they'll go to your channel and complain they need to hunt down packages one by one.11:34
nenolodas of late, i just tell them to use some other player if they don't like it11:35
nenolod"have you tried Amarok lately? it seems tobe all the craze"11:35
nenolodthey must love me over at Amarok11:35
nenolodfor referring so many idiots to them11:35
minghuaSounds a good strategy to me, actually. ;-)11:36
* minghua wishes he can recommend competitive software to whiny users, too.11:37
nenolodtry it11:37
nenolod<luser> ubuntu is garbage11:37
nenolod<minghua> have you tried Gentoo lately?11:37
nenolod<minghua> I understand you can use it to save money on heating bills.11:37
minghuanenolod: Nah.  Now I completely ignore them, I still think that's easier.11:37
nenolodminghua, well usually they join in the middle of an argument between me and chainsaw or me and ccr or whatever ;)11:38
minghuaAnd I don't really have a good competitive software to recommend in the first place.11:38
nenolodwho said i recommended amarok because i thought it was good?11:38
nenolodi mean i'm sure amarok is good for a jukebox, but it doesn't have a design oriented towards high quality audio reproduction - it just wraps other engines11:39
nenolod(actually, people keep asking for solution to make amarok embed the audacious audio engine)11:39
minghuanenolod: My suggestion is just that, if you as upstream recommend adding/removing some plugins in the -plugins package, it will meet less resistance.  If you recommend complete package structure overhaul and split all plugins, you need a more convincing case.11:44
pwnguini disagree. gentoo gets flamewars right in spectacular fashion11:45
minghuanenolod: So maybe concentrate on what can be easily done is a good idea, like removing apple loseless plugin, adding last.fm plugin, etc.11:45
nenolodwell it's just observations11:45
pwnguinnenolod: you could just publish a debian dir in the upstream archive ;)11:45
minghuapwnguin: Are you disagreeing against me?11:45
nenolodwhat should be done is better left to key people in MOTU and DDs11:45
nenolodpwnguin, no! that's bad11:46
pwnguinsays who?11:46
nenolodpwnguin, dondelelcaro has already cussed at me and anarcat about considering that in an indymedia package known as loreley11:46
minghuasays most Debian and Ubuntu developers.11:46
pwnguini like hess' take on the matter11:46
minghuaHaving debian/ in upstream VCS is probably not a big deal, but putting it in tarballs causes endless of problems.11:47
slangasekpwnguin: eeew, please don't encourage that11:49
nenolodslangasek, i know better anyway ;)11:49
slangaseknenolod: but he might encourage others too :(11:49
pwnguinim aware people dont like it11:49
slangasekanyway, Joey's position is aesthetically pleasing, but not very practical to date11:50
pwnguinbut mostly it seems to be because it undermines their authority on packaging11:50
pwnguina maintainer is nearly an owner11:50
nenolodno, the better approach is to send the debian patches you make to the debian maintainer and ask him to consider it11:51
minghuaI don't think so.  You can't remove bad files from upstream's debian/.11:51
nenolodif he respects upstream, he will11:51
pwnguinif they disagree, you cant do much because they own it11:52
pwnguinyou can try the ctte11:52
slangasekwhat's your point?11:52
pwnguinim not sure11:52
slangasekthe maintainer is responsible for the package, they should have control over the outcome without having to do dances to work around upstream inclusion of debian11:52
slangaseknenolod: I think he means Debian's technical committee11:53
pwnguinive seen the debian technical committee referred to as ctte for some reason11:53
nenolodslangasek, ah. the ultimate in starting debian flameage11:53
minghuapwnguin: If upstream is not happy with Debian's packaging, it's better to provide their own debian package than including debian/ in upstream tarball.11:54
pwnguinwhich is apparently done by contacting the MOTU ;)11:55
minghuapwnguin: I'm not sure I understand you.11:56
nenolodpwnguin, no11:57
nenolodpwnguin, it's done by redirecting bitching users to launchpad.11:57
slangasekpwnguin: debian-ctte is the mailing list name; usually referred to as tech-ctte or TC though11:57
pwnguinwel, just TC would be a bit confusing i think11:58
pwnguin"debian or ubuntu?"11:58
pwnguinanyways, bedtime11:59
=== huats is now known as huats_
nenolodupdated a little12:02
nenolodslangasek, well, i'm sure you'll be happy to know that atheme.org has standardised on Debian and rPath machines12:03
nenolodslangasek, before we were using gentoo - it was a nightmare to maintain :(12:03
slangasekcongratulations on finding your way :)12:04
nenolodwell, i knew the way beforehand12:04
nenolodbut the idea was that "gentoo would help us roll out our own patches more easily via overlays"12:04
nenolodoh man, what a joke12:04
nenolodit wound up being so painful that nothing ever got updated12:04
=== tonyy is now known as tonyyarusso
norsettoScottK: I subscribed motu-uvf to bug 64032 since its for gutsy-proposed. Let me know if there is a need for something to be added.12:15
ubotuLaunchpad bug 64032 in rpmstrap "rpmstrap using /bin/sh when it should use /bin/bash" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6403212:15
coNP[uni]Hey norsetto12:16
norsettocoNP[uni]: hey asisak, how is it going?12:16
coNP[uni]Thanks. It is cool.12:17
* coNP[uni] begins to miss to run an unstable version12:17
coNP[uni]Not that Gutsy would have been released ...12:18
=== norsetto is now known as norsetto_limbo
=== asac_ is now known as asac
=== persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages
=== RoninX341 is now known as etank
minghuapersia: It's still good to keep the gutsy-updates info on topic, isn't it?12:38
persiaminghua: You think?  If we're released, I don't see how freeze status means anything.12:39
Fujitsupersia: I believe the gutsy-updates stuff will apply until Hardy opens, so the normal process can be followed.12:39
FujitsuSo should be in the topic, probably.12:40
persiaRight.  Nevermind.  Undoing...12:40
minghuapersia: not the freeze part, the "start working on Gutsy SRUs (gutsy-proposed is open for motu-uvf approved uploads" part.12:40
minghuaPoor persia.  And thanks BTW. :-)12:40
=== persia changed the topic of #ubuntu-motu to: Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | Gutsy Gibbon released - start working on Gutsy SRUs (gutsy-proposed is open for motu-uvf approved uploads). | Want to get involved with the MOTUs? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing | http://ubuntu.joejaxx.org/ - TOP 10 Uploaders/Packages
ubotuStable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates12:55
fernandomoin all13:10
dholbachhappy release day to y'all! :)13:10
FujitsuHey dholbach.13:11
dholbachhey fujitsu13:12
=== huats_ is now known as huats
=== norsetto_limbo is now known as norsetto
norsettoscottK: I assume that being assigned to bug 64032 means I have an ack to upload?13:30
ubotuLaunchpad bug 64032 in rpmstrap "rpmstrap using /bin/sh when it should use /bin/bash" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/6403213:30
ScottKnorsetto: Yes.13:31
ScottKnorsetto: Note my comments about version numbers though.13:31
norsettoscottK: sorry, I must be blind, which comment?13:32
ScottKnorsetto: The one I forgot to post.13:33
ScottKJust a sec.13:33
* norsetto thinks scottk should head to bed very soon ....13:33
ScottKPlease use ubuntu0.1 and save ubuntu1 for Hardy.13:33
ScottKnorsetto: Have slept and am back.13:33
ScottKam also drinking coffee.13:34
norsettoscottk: you kidding? you call 3 hours a sleep???13:34
ScottKToday, yes, but not as a rule.13:34
norsettoscottk: gee man, you should take care of you better, gotta talk with your wife one of these days13:35
ScottKI could go back to bed and then be unable to get to sleep tonight again.  I just need to suck it up for one day to get back on a ~normal schedule.13:35
ScottKnorsetto: I'm making progress.  Back when I was in the Navy, this was pretty normal.  Now it's at least rare.13:35
=== amachu_ is now known as amachu
norsettoscottK: thx for the number btw, I totally forgot about it13:37
ScottKnorsetto: No trouble.  That's one of the main reasons I proposed motu-uvf ack all the uploads right now.13:38
WhoopieTo all of you: WELL DONE!13:40
norsettothis yada thingie is snappy ....13:42
FujitsuEr, I hope that isn't the yada I'm thinking of.13:43
ScottKnorsetto: I was about to warn you, but to late I guess.13:43
norsettoFujitsu: I'm afraid it is .....13:43
norsettoscottK: its ok, I just had to get used to it13:44
* Fujitsu sobs.13:44
* norsetto pats Fujitsu on the shoulders13:44
* ScottK sits back and waits for fireworks.13:44
norsettoscottK: you mean its going to make the launchpad buildd very happy?13:45
ScottKNo, I mean some people really don't like yada.13:45
ScottKDoes anyone know if we can file hardy sync requests now (I know they can't be acted on)?13:46
norsettoScottK: all I know is that I marked a couple of bugs as sync yesterday already13:47
norsettohowdy proppy13:48
proppynice !13:48
proppyback to work place13:48
proppymuch nicer to work here than from home13:48
norsettoproppy: at least you get paid ;-)13:49
proppynop :)13:49
norsettoproppy: so, you managed to get to work eh? No lame excuse due to the strike ... like a real man13:49
proppywe got fired a long time ago13:49
proppywe only use the place for geeking together :)13:50
proppybut we're not paid for that13:50
proppybut we still have free money each month for one year :)13:51
proppythen we will have to figure out how to earn some13:52
proppyI forget to ask what is your daily work norsetto? apart for being a ubuntu dev ?13:52
norsettoproppy: daily work? whats that!?13:54
proppynice one :)13:54
proppynorsetto: are you able to work on the viewvc thing with me ?13:55
norsettoproppy: is there still something to be done?13:55
proppyviewvc-config patch13:56
norsettoproppy: just a sec. I need to finish something first13:57
proppyI thought I can do it myself, it just feel easier if you're close13:58
norsettoproppy: as if I can help you ..... you are the python wizard14:02
proppycheering me up is a great help :)14:04
=== TomaszD_ is now known as TomaszD
proppynorsetto: just have written a testcase, do you agree on the behaviour http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/comment.py.txt ?14:12
* norsetto reads14:12
norsettoproppy: what makes you think that I know Python?14:12
proppynorsetto: my guess is that testing code is pretty langage independant14:13
norsettoproppy: I think its \n not \n\ in self.assertEquals14:16
proppyyep just figured that out14:17
norsettoproppy: what happens if content = "toto\ntiti tutu\ntata\n" ?14:18
proppynorsetto: let me add the test14:21
proppynorsetto: what is the expected behaviour ? toto\n#titi tutu\ntata\n" ?14:22
proppyit passed14:22
norsettoproppy: ok14:22
proppywhat is the expected behaviour commentLine("toto\ntiti tutu\ntata\n", "tutu") ?14:23
proppycomment or not comment ?14:24
proppymy guess is that we only need to be able to comment matching the begin of the line don't we ?14:24
proppydo you think of any other test cases before I move this to viewvc-config ?14:32
proppy(hint refresh the page)14:34
norsettoproppy: (2) if you don't address to me I might not see it ......14:44
proppynorsetto: sorry14:45
huatsnorsetto: hey14:46
huatsnorsetto: happy release day14:46
norsettothis place starts to fill up with french .....14:46
norsettohuats: hrd to you too .... do you know proppy?14:46
huatsnorsetto: let's say that the place was already filled with french, but the french knows to be silent... sometimes14:47
huatsproppy: nice to know you :-)14:47
norsettoproppy->huats; huats->proppy14:47
norsettoproppy: be kind with this poor sould from the deep south .....14:48
proppyhi huats14:48
proppywhere do you from ?14:48
ScottKproppy: norsetto says you know about Python?14:48
proppyavec l'accent ?14:48
proppyScottK: I do14:48
ScottKUp for a project?14:48
huatsproppy: where do you from ?14:48
proppyScottK: always14:49
proppyhuats: former "centre" now "paris"14:49
norsettoscottK; he is also soon out of a job ... didn't you emntion an rfp some days ago?14:49
ScottKI did.14:49
ScottKLet me see if I can find the announcement (it's Python/Django).14:49
proppyScottK: just wait I've finished treating this viewvc bug, I try to open only one task by context14:50
ScottKproppy: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf-announce/current/msg04179.html is it's your kind of thing14:50
ScottKproppy: I think it would be interesting to have a script to compare what versions we have with getdeb.  The requestsync script in ubuntu-dev-tools (in Python) already knows how to find Ubuntu versions.  The getdeb data structure was mentioned on either motu ML or devel-discuss yesterday or the day before.14:52
proppyScottK: hope it's not a solo job (about the RFP)14:53
ScottKproppy: They are looking for one contractor.  Up to you how many people you get together to do it.14:53
ScottKMaybe you and ajmitch can collaborate (dunno).14:54
proppyScottK: I'm not a good contractor when I'm alone and remote14:54
proppyScottK: getdeb thing is the project you were talking about ?14:55
ScottKOK.  Just mentioned it here because I thought there might be people who might be able to go after it.14:55
ScottKproppy: Yes.14:55
norsettoproppy: one more test case: commented = commentLine("toto\ntiti = tutu\ntata\n", "titi =") -> self.assertEquals("toto\n#titi = tutu\ntata\n", commented)14:55
proppynorsetto: Ran 1 test in 0.004s14:56
proppyit passed14:56
norsettoproppy: ok, most probably we are missing some 100th of cases that will fail, but never mind .....14:57
proppyScottK: I don't know anything about getdeb (yet), is it related to dget ?14:57
proppynorsetto: it's better than nothing :)14:57
proppyon which ml was it discussed ?14:58
proppy-devel ?14:58
ScottKproppy: devel-discuss14:59
norsettoproppy: Ran 1 test in 0.001s -> my computer is bigger than yours, so there14:59
proppynorsetto: I'm running the test remote :)15:00
norsettoproppy: no lame excuse will hold15:00
proppyon a 1Ghz box, so it's not hard15:00
proppynorsetto: but I bet you can't beat my bandwitch haha15:00
proppy09:51:13 (9.94 MB/s) - `ubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386.iso' saved [729608192/729608192]15:01
proppydon't forget kids the faster your download, the bigger your penis is :)15:01
_rubeni could beat that if i'd knew a mirror that'd be bast enough :)15:01
proppyScottK: registred to the list15:02
proppyScottK: looking archive15:02
proppyScottK: this one https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2007-October/001974.html ?15:03
ScottKproppy: Yes.15:04
ScottKIt was also discussed some on the motu ML (IIRC).  Somewhere in there they described how to get their packages/versions.15:04
mdomsch   458358784  62%  109.36MB/s    0:00:0215:04
norsettoproppy: it should fail if the word is not the first on the row (ie. " tete")15:05
proppyScottK: they supply the binary deb ? how do they figure dependency15:06
ScottKproppy: Don't get me started.:15:06
=== x-spec-t is now known as Spec
proppynorsetto: you mean that test ?15:06
proppy commented = commentLine("toto\ntiti tutu\ntata\n", "tutu") self.assertEquals("toto\ntiti tutu\ntata\n", commented)15:06
* norsetto calms scottk down, shows him a nice cool glass of beer15:06
ScottKnorsetto: It's a little early for that here.15:07
Schnitzdon't tell me your bandwith stuff i'm updating using update-manager and the german mirrors are under heavy load....50kb/s ;-(15:07
norsettoproppy: whatever15:07
proppyFuture Plans --------------- Move to APT based software distribution15:07
norsettoscottk: its not here, but my fridge look as if the US navy passed over it15:07
proppyScottK: so you want a script that compare getdeb and ubuntu version ?15:09
ScottKproppy: Yes.15:10
FujitsuScottK: So we can deprecate GetDeb ASAP?15:10
ScottKIdeally, what I'd like to be able to do is get a list of stuff that they are shipping, that we have in our development release (e.g. hardy) that we could backport to the current release.15:10
ScottKFujitsu: You catch on quick.15:11
ScottKTheir web front end is shiny and potentially useful.  I just want to get them out of the packaging business.15:11
proppyclever :)15:12
* proppy hugs ScottK15:12
FujitsuIt would be nice to have a repo open so we can backport new UVs post-UVF.15:12
ScottKAnd then where they have newer stuff than in our development release, that'd be a work list for here.15:12
ScottKFujitsu: ubuntu-experimental.15:12
ScottKSomeone (not me anytime soon) should also look at the new Automatix release and see what we can do for Hardy to put a few more nails in their coffin.15:13
norsettoscottK: I was actually surprised they don't even distribute their source packages15:14
Fujitsunorsetto: They do now, AFAIK.15:15
ScottKnorsetto: You must be easily suprised.15:15
norsettoFujitsu: I checked yesterday and couldn't find it15:15
Fujitsunorsetto: Oh, for Automatix?15:15
norsettoFujitsu: yes15:15
FujitsuAh, thought you were talking about GetDeb.15:15
zulheh grumpy is an urban legend ;)15:16
geserScottK: does the patch in bug #129050 qualify for gutsy-proposed?15:16
ubotuLaunchpad bug 129050 in gtk2hs "ghc library packages all have bad dependencies" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/12905015:16
ScottKgeser: I'd say so.  Let me mark in the bug.  Make sure you use a version number that won't conflict with the eventual Hardy upload.15:17
ScottKgeser: Done.15:19
proppyScottK: we can work on it, after the viewvc bug is fixed if you want :)15:20
ScottKproppy: Sure.  No rush.15:21
=== Fujitsu_ is now known as Fujitsu
ScottKnorsetto: For Automatix, there's nothing compiled, so you can disassemble their .deb to get their source.15:25
norsettoscottk: with dpkg-deb you mean?15:25
ScottKPersonally I use ark, but whatever you like.15:25
proppy(04:05:57 PM) norsetto: proppy: it should fail if the word is not the first on the row (ie. " tete")15:26
proppynorsetto: do you confirm it's already adressed with the testing code ? or do I get you wrong ?15:27
norsettoproppy: yes, I tested it out of curiosity and it indeed failed15:27
proppyby failed you mean the test failed -> it did comment the line , or the test success -> it didn't comment the line15:28
norsettoproppy: neither : the test fails -> it didn't comment the line15:29
proppyshow me the test15:30
norsettoproppy: commented = commentLine("toto\n titi = tutu\ntata\n", "titi =") -> self.assertEquals("toto\n# titi = tutu\ntata\n", commented)15:30
norsettoproppy: is this a regex '^'+var ?15:32
proppydo the trick15:34
proppybut you should change the test to commented = commentLine("toto\n titi = tutu\ntata\n", "titi =") -> self.assertEquals("toto\n#titi = tutu\ntata\n", commented)15:34
proppyIf you don't want to care about grouping syntax15:34
proppynorsetto: http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/comment.py.txt15:35
norsettoproppy: ok15:35
proppyit trash the space between # and keyword15:36
norsettoproppy: yes, np15:37
proppylet's patch viewvc-config  ?15:40
proppy-t for comment ?15:41
proppynorsetto: does this look a cool test to you http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test-viewvc-config.sh.txt15:42
norsettoproppy: why not with a clone of viewvc-config ?15:44
norsettoproppy: sorry, viewvc.conf.dist ?15:45
proppynorsetto: I wanted to try this one http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test.conf.txt15:45
proppynorsetto: I just figure out of a new testcase that failed :)15:45
proppycommented = commentLine("toto\ntititi = tutu\ntata\n", "titi") -> self.assertEquals("toto\ntititi = tutu\ntata\n", commented)15:47
norsettoproppy: btw, -k (--key) is there already15:47
proppythat's why I used it15:47
proppyto know which key to comment15:47
proppynorsetto: does it looks reseanable to comment only line with = in it ?15:49
norsettoproppy: yes, but, what if the user did define a template dit different from default? Shouldn't we check for it too?15:50
norsettoproppy: s/dit/dir15:50
norsettoproppy: but I guess we can do that in viewvc.config15:51
norsettoScottK: do I get a confirmation that rpmstrap is in gutsy-update, so that I can send the email, or should I send the email in any case?15:54
ScottKnorsetto: It'll get marked in the bug when it's published, so as long as you are getting the bugmail, you'll get notified.15:55
norsettoscottk: excellent15:55
proppynorsetto: I've updated the test and the implementation15:55
proppynorsetto: updated http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test-viewvc-config.sh.txt15:58
=== cprov is now known as cprov-lunch
norsettoproppy: isn't a cat << EOF | tee test.conf needed?16:01
proppynorsetto: cat > test.conf <<EOF ?16:05
norsettoproppy: that should do too16:05
proppynorsetto: -t option implemented in viewvc-config16:10
proppynorsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/cecc6c3f0e4b16:10
proppybash -x test-viewvc-config.sh || echo FAILED && echo SUCCEED print SUCCEED16:10
norsettoproppy: Have you checked what happens if -a is specified?16:12
proppyif a is specified getting is one16:13
proppyso it should sys.exist first16:13
proppybut let's make a test for this16:13
proppynorsetto: test updated http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test-viewvc-config.sh.txt16:14
norsettoproppy: for the second test case this is not true: grep "^#commentme" test.conf16:16
proppydoutche ?16:16
norsettoproppy: no, its ok, I didn't consider that you save to test.conf again16:17
proppyI added a test case for -k16:17
proppyto check that my code didn't alter the existing behaviour16:17
proppy(I should have put that test in place prior the modification)16:18
norsettoproppy: don't forget to patch this too: # Usage: viewvc-config -k keyname -v value -c config_file ;-)16:18
sabdflpolls open in 8 hours for new MOTU Council candidates16:20
sabdflplease vote!16:20
coNP[uni]Hmm. Any MOTU can vote, right?16:21
pochucoNP[uni]: yes.16:22
coNP[uni]Hey pochu, happy release day! :)16:23
coNP[uni]pochu: are you a MOTU, btw?16:23
pochucoNP[uni]: nope :(16:24
proppynorsetto: like this http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/563165dee4ac ?16:24
coNP[uni]Just say if you need some cheering :)16:25
norsettoproppy: yep16:27
norsettowhat is there to vote? two candidates for two posts!?16:28
pochucoNP[uni]: thanks, I'll let you know :) Maybe in the Hardy cycle...16:30
proppynorsetto: patch updated http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/viewvc-config.patch.txt16:37
bddebianHeya gang16:38
norsettohola bddebian16:39
bddebianHeya norsetto16:39
MarcCwhat happens to stuff in ubuntu-proposed? Does it eventually get put in the main repos?16:41
coNP[uni]MarcC: it is eventually put to -updates16:42
coNP[uni]Whether they belong to main / restricted / universe / multiverse is another thing.16:42
MarcCcool, so that means, if a change to Kopete to make it not crash is pushed to proposed, it will eventually make it into updates?16:43
sabdflajmitch: i got a note you expired from ubuntu-dev, was that planned or can i change it for you?16:43
proppynorsetto: so next ?16:44
proppynorsetto: update viewvc.config to call viewcv-config to comment template line and add template_dir option ?16:44
MarcCwhat does SRU stand for?16:44
coNP[uni]Stable Release Updates16:45
coNP[uni]? SRU16:45
ubotuStable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates16:45
MarcCthanks :)16:45
eolo999ScottK: Hi Scott, long time has passed, how are you?17:12
ScottKHi there.17:12
ScottKNot bad.  Welcome back.17:12
ScottKI was wondering if we'd see you again.17:12
ScottKnorsetto_: eolo999 knows about Python too and is also Italian.17:12
eolo999I'm so rusted i don't know if i can help in any way...17:13
bmm<start commercial> I've posted metalinks for Gutsy gibbon at http://metamirrors.nl/node/139 <end commercial> Any comments are welcome.17:13
* proppy hugs eolo99917:13
eolo999proppy: hi17:13
eolo999norsetto_: ciao17:13
ScottKnorsetto_ may have some ideas for eolo999 to work on.17:13
eolo999i will need some time to get in again (this time reading docs ;P)17:14
ScottKNo rush, glad to have you back.17:14
norsetto_scottK; eh, nobody is perfect ;-)17:15
norsetto_eolo999: ciao eolo17:15
eolo999ScottK: what about you being a MOTU now?17:15
norsetto_eolo999: hey, he is THE motu :-)17:16
eolo999norsetto_: ciao17:16
eolo999when i've known him he was not yet...17:16
eolo999norsetto_: di dove sei?17:17
norsetto_eolo999: he, good question: where I was born, where I lived most of my life, where I live now ?17:18
eolo999all three.17:18
ScottKeolo999: This is an English only channel.  #ubuntu-it for that if it's in Italian.17:18
eolo999ScottK: ok17:19
ScottKSorry, but it's the common denominator.17:19
ScottKNo problem.17:19
eolo999don't worry17:19
norsetto_eolo999: ok ok   ....was born in Macerata (if you don't know where that is you will be banned for life), lived most of my life in The Netherlands, and I'm now in Rome, and you?17:19
eolo999i've been in macerata...nice17:20
eolo999i'm from florence but i live in Rome, too.17:20
norsetto_eolo999: ok, so I know you did your army service in the Air Force ......17:20
eolo999i diserted military service, i've been there for my job (i'm a light technician for theatre).17:21
eolo999norsetto_: are you a MOTU?17:22
proppyapt-cache search python dmx, No match too sad17:22
coNP[uni]eolo999: sure, norsetto_ is a MOTU-youngster.17:23
eolo999proppy: would be nice pydmx!17:23
ScottKproppy: You can package a new python module in just an hour or two.17:23
norsetto_eolo999: so they say, I still have to believe it myself though17:23
proppyScottK: I don't know if there is a codebase for that :)17:23
coNP[uni]Actually we still need some time to notice the overall regression because of norsetto_17:24
proppyScottK: Thanks to distutils and cdbs :)17:24
norsetto_coNP[uni]: they even tried to push the release date because of me .....17:24
proppyScottK: I should upload this one, one day .. http://svn.gna.org/svn/pokersource/trunk/qpoker/debian/17:24
ScottKproppy: And don't forget Debian Python Modules/Apps Teams.17:25
coNP[uni]What is the bug number of the bug "norsetto is a MOTU"?17:25
coNP[uni]It is release-critical.17:25
ScottKYou can get your Python stuff uploaded to Debian pretty easily that way.17:25
norsetto_coNP[uni]: oh, that was fix-released few weeks ago ....17:25
proppyI use to know a DD who can sponsor upload, but since I'm a bit slow to update my package when nobody ask me too, I feel kinda unconfortable to ask him to upload other stuff17:26
proppyScottK: what is Debian Python Modules/Apps Teams. ?17:26
=== norsetto_ is now known as norsetto
ScottKproppy: See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContributingToDebian/PythonModulesTeam (it needs to be updated for the addition of the apps team).17:27
eolo999ScottK: bye, i'll be here soon...17:28
eolo999norsetto: If you want to visit me i work every night in Teatro Belli in Trastevere...17:28
norsettoeolo999: thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'm not really the night owl, but I might convince my better half one day (we live in Borghesiana ... so you know its not really downtown)17:30
eolo999bye all17:30
norsettoeolo999: ciao eolo ... see u again (I hope....)17:31
norsettoseems like we lost proppy somewhere .....17:36
proppynop nop17:37
ScottKproppy is still here AFAICT.17:37
proppystill here17:37
proppydo I miss something ?17:37
proppy(05:44:10 PM) proppy: norsetto: so next ?17:38
proppy(05:44:42 PM) proppy: norsetto: update viewvc.config to call viewcv-config to comment template line and add template_dir option ?17:38
proppyI'm currently looking at viewvc.config17:38
proppytrying to figure out where to add the brand new viewvc-config -t calls17:39
norsettoproppy: ok, I thought you had seen that I was disconnected17:39
proppyoh ok17:40
proppyfollowing some #gnash discussions in the meantime, and the fact that I barely understand what they are saying, lowered my attention #here :)17:41
norsettoproppy: why not at the very end? Like a proper clean-up .....17:41
proppyat the end of the file ? or at the end of the migration part ?17:42
norsettoproppy: at the end of viewvc.config17:43
proppysorry forget again to add norsetto:17:43
norsetto ....exec alias \s norsetto .....17:44
proppynorsetto: let me put it in a separate script before17:48
norsettoproppy: actually, the best place is not in viewvc.config17:53
norsettoproppy: I think we should call it from the postinst script17:53
proppyok :)17:54
proppylet's write it first17:55
norsettoproppy: and I think the best place would be just after the: mv /etc/viewcvs/viewcvs.conf /etc/viewvc/viewvc.conf; what do you think?17:57
proppyyep I agree17:58
bluekujanorsetto, mentors meeting is tomorrow at 13 UTC so 15 for us. I'll arrive a bit late, I hope it wont finish in 20 minutes :)17:59
norsettobluekuja: 20 min? We'll be lucky if its over before dinner ....17:59
proppynorsetto: working on the script http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test-viewvc.config.sh.txt17:59
norsettobluekuja: btw, I subscribed motu-torrent to a needs-packaging about apt-torrent, you might be interested18:00
hellboy195great work guys. gutsy is out :D18:00
norsettois it? nobody ever tells me anything ....18:01
ivokswhen that happend?!18:01
norsettobeside coNP[uni] of course, he tells me way too much .....18:01
ivoksomg, again, i overslept release...18:01
hellboy195uh some hours ago18:01
coNP[uni]Bye norsetto et al.18:02
coNP[uni]See you tomorrow18:02
coNP[uni]Happy Release Day to all :)18:02
norsettotake care coNP[uni]18:02
hellboy195jono: hoi. ubuntu --> great xD18:02
huatsnorsetto: don't forget the talkative french... We surround you18:02
* norsetto starts sweating18:03
hellboy195I know the question is stupid and old but "What about a extremy unstable, unsupported bleeding edge repo for gutsy?"  <-- I really don't want too use debian or anything other than ubuntu ^^18:03
jonohellboy195:  :)18:03
huatsnorsetto: remember how you called me once... Master of little things ?18:03
huatswell, they are everywhere :-)18:03
bluekujanorsetto, perfect, I'll try to be there as soon as I can. Let me check my mail now then (just went home) :)18:03
norsettohuats: little crawling things, makes a differnce18:04
ScottKhellboy195: Wait until the hardy repos open and then ask for gutsy-backports.18:04
ScottK!backports |  hellboy19518:04
ubotuhellboy195: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging18:04
hellboy195I know the backports but ok you do a great work but I like "bleeding edge like sid" more. just only with ubuntu ^^18:05
proppynorsetto: warning18:05
* norsetto start swearing18:06
proppynorsetto: viewvc-config seems not to works for inserting new value, just updating existing one18:06
proppynorsetto: the SetValue regexp doesn't match anything if the var is not in the file contents18:06
ScottKproppy and norsetto: It's sounding broken enough that you might want to consider contacting the upstream and work with them on it.18:07
norsettoproppy: yes, but they are?18:07
proppylet me add a test to this old test-view-vc-config.sh18:07
proppyScottK: dd seems to be the author of that18:07
proppynorsetto: I'm talking about adding template_dir18:07
proppyScottK: debiandevelopers18:08
proppyScottK: since the script is in debian/18:08
norsettoproppy: but you don't need viewvc-configure for that!18:08
proppyoh ok :)18:08
proppynorsetto: how so ?18:08
proppynorsetto: I still need to insert this line in the appropriate section18:09
norsettowhats wrong with an echo >> ?18:09
proppynorsetto: template_dir should be in [options] section18:09
proppynorsetto: a few line of sed could do it18:09
proppynorsetto: as well as commenting the template options line18:09
norsettoScottK: yes, thats the idea, we open a new bug in the debian bts with the patch and ask his advice18:09
proppynorsetto: I though you wanted to use viewvc-config for that ?18:10
norsettoproppy: we can use whatever its easier to use18:10
proppynorsetto: we should figure where is the [options] section, and insert a line at the end of it18:12
norsettoproppy: if you feel better using sed sure, go for it, whatever you feel will do the job with the minimum effort18:12
proppynorsetto: should be easy with a few regexp18:12
proppynorsetto: I remembered sed addressing is fun :)18:12
=== bluekuja_ is now known as bluekuja
norsettoproppy: are you sure you are not a woman?18:13
proppynorsetto: but I fill kinda guilty not to add functionnality to the existing viewvc-config18:13
proppynorsetto: let me check18:13
* norsetto hopes Hobbsee is not around .......18:13
proppynorsetto: adding NewValue to viewvc-config sound fine to me18:14
* norsetto wears his best armour suit, just in case18:14
proppyHobbsee is a sed addict or a woman ? or both ?18:14
norsettoproppy: don't know if she is a sed addict, but sure has a pointy stick and she is not afraid of using it18:15
proppysed is kinda pointy18:16
proppynorsetto: updated http://lp152438.aminche.com/comment/test-viewvc-config.sh.txt18:16
proppynorsetto: now failing with python viewvc-config -k "newoption" -v "value" -c test.conf ; grep "^newoption = value" test.conf18:17
norsettoproppy: thwre is no newoption in there? Can you add a key with it!?18:18
proppynot yet18:19
proppywhat I'm looking for is made that work by patching viewvc-config ?18:19
norsettooh $deity, I unleashed a monster .....18:19
proppymaybe I should use a different option of that ?18:22
proppy-d like add ?፡)18:22
hellboy195jono: how are you doing with packaging now after the first try with pitivi? cause I'm also starting and I think it a little bit hard but makes me satisfied :)18:22
jonohellboy195: I havent had time to do any more, but it was fun18:23
jonohellboy195: if you are new, be sure to share your experiences so we know how to make it easier :)18:24
hellboy195jono: oh well your feedback was good. also for me and my wishes ;)18:24
ScottKhellboy195: And write documentation.  Once you are experienced it's impossible to write docs that work for new people.  We NEED people who are new to it to write them.18:25
jonoScottK: wise words :)18:25
hellboy195ScottK: sure but I think I have to try 2-3 programms packaging first only to know the basics18:26
ScottKhellboy195: Start writing now though.  You may not publish until you've done a few, but start writing now.18:26
hellboy195ScottK: OK :) but can you tell me in what direction this sould go?18:27
ScottKhellboy195: What you want to end up with is the document that you wish had existed when you started.18:27
ScottKIt's not to early to be writing sync requests for Hardy (requestsync doesn't quite work yet) for packages that don't need to have an Ubuntu diff anymore.  I got mine in (9), so you all can get in line now.18:28
hellboy195ScottK: K, will do it :)18:30
hellboy195ScottK: may I ask you a "flamewar" question?  why isn't debian not able to package gnome correctly like in ubuntu?18:32
ScottKhellboy195: I use Kubuntu, so my answer is I don't know and I don't care.18:33
hellboy195ScottK: well ok18:33
ScottKI suspect the answer has to do with different objectives for the distros, but really don't know.18:34
hellboy195ScottK: thx anyway :)18:34
lucashas anyone tried to install gusty inside qemu?18:35
lucasI can't seem to start the installer18:35
=== Spec is now known as x-spec-t
proppynorsetto: got it working18:48
proppynorsetto: http://hg.lp152438.aminche.com/rev/11e1f5b7d42818:50
proppynorsetto: it's easier to add the option at the beginning of the section18:53
norsettoproppy: you are still at work?18:53
norsettoproppy: I gotta go, wifey is calling for dinner18:53
=== norsetto is now known as norsetto_limbo
proppynorsetto_limbo: ok me tto :)18:54
proppynorsetto_limbo: see you later then18:54
proppynorsetto_limbo: all the regexp code is useless look at this :) http://docs.python.org/lib/RawConfigParser-objects.html19:04
proppynorsetto_limbo: see you soon have to go19:04
proppysee you :)19:04
* proppy hugs ScottK19:04
hellboy195jono: wb19:05
mehdi2hi motu, any body knows if backporting team needs contribution? I've started packaging recently and have backported some packages for our local repo like Pidgin, Stardict & ...19:10
ScottK!backports | mehdi219:11
ubotumehdi2: If new updated Ubuntu packages are built for an application, then they go into Ubuntu Backports. See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuBackports - See also !packaging19:11
ScottKmehdi2: For backports we only take packages from the Ubuntu development repository (with some modification if needed).19:11
ScottKmehdi2: What we really need is people to test packages that have been requested already.19:11
mehdi2ScottK: I've backported some from Debian19:12
ScottKHere we get them into a development repository first and then backport them.  That step is not optional.19:13
mehdi2ScottK: maybe I can start/help wih testing too.19:13
ScottKgreat.  That's what we really need.  If you have questions, jdong is the best person to ask.19:14
ScottKmehdi2: What Ubuntu version(s) do you use?19:14
mehdi2ScottK: I just joined the mailing list to be informed about what the team is doing19:15
mehdi2ScottK: feisty/gutsy19:15
ScottKmehdi2: https://bugs.launchpad.net/feisty-backports/+bugs - Anything marked New or Incomplete probably needs testing.19:16
hellboy195cya :)19:29
=== norsetto_limbo is now known as norsetto
ScottKI just blew my streak.  I clicked on a bug in #ubuntu-bugs that I couldn't invalid.  I had to confirm it.20:09
ajmitchthat's not good20:12
* ScottK looks around.20:14
* ajmitch looks at the clock20:15
leonelaccording  to  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule    what's the next step for MOTU ?? wait for the toolchain ?20:43
ajmitchyes, or just get stuff ready for upload anyway20:47
=== neversfelde_ is now known as neversfelde
ScottKleonel: We'll take Gutsy SRUs now and sync requests where needed (Ubuntu diff is safe to drop) can be filed.21:05
=== _czessi is now known as Czessi
ScottKIf some mentor is looking for a merge for a hopeful to work on, gramps should be reasonably straightforward and I have no interest in continuing to be the person that touched it last.21:10
leonelI hope postgresql 8.3  can make in hardy21:18
ScottKDo you know when they plan to release it?21:19
leonelbefore chrismas21:20
tonyyarussoWell, feature freeze is Valentine's Day iirc21:21
ScottKkeescook: From a security perspective, what do you think of a package making it's own user and adding that user to sudoers?  Is that OK?21:25
keescookScottK: making it's own user, sure.  that's common.  Adding the user to sudoers: yuck.  There had better be a really powerfully good reason.  :)21:25
ScottKSince they give that user only limit sudo rights, I'm thinkin it's superior to running as root.21:26
jmgsurely suid would be better?21:27
ScottKkeescook: The package is secvpn.  Since it's a vpn package, I imagine it really does need to run as root.21:27
ScottKjmg: I'd imagine so.21:27
ScottKIt's init scripts are hopelessly ancient and the more I dig, the less I like.21:28
keescookScottK: while I'm sure it needs rootly powers to do some things, I'd examine why and where.21:28
* ScottK feels suddenly in way over his head.21:28
ScottKIt does sound like a good audit ought to be done before it's put in working order.21:29
* ScottK feels less bad it doesn't work so well ATM.21:29
ajmitchsecvpn looked like an evil package21:31
jmgat least its better than the iphone running everything as root :)21:31
ScottKajmitch: I'm tempted to write it off as a good thing it crashes a lot.21:35
ajmitchfile a removal request21:35
ajmitchwe'll all be better off, i'm sure21:35
ScottKajmitch: I will21:35
ScottKDear pitti, please remove secvpn source and binary.  Reason: because it is evil.21:36
leoneliphone ??  idon't21:37
=== ivoks_ is now known as ivoks
nixternalhttp://tinyurl.com/2gljnw  <-- Ubuntu Article - includes MOTU and some of us21:50
* nixternal pokes ajmitch 21:50
* ajmitch hides21:51
nixternalthought you said no to him? funny I seen your name plastered in it :p21:51
nixternalMr. Mitchell said, "Ubuntu what? forget that! Debian FTW!"21:51
ajmitchas he types from his sid desktop...21:52
ajmitchwhich is what I'm using right now :)21:52
nixternalya, I need to fix my Debian box....it got hosed with some KDE 4'age21:52
ajmitchjono: still awake? I'm surprised22:01
* ajmitch watches the upgrade bugs roll in22:01
=== lamego_ is now known as Lamego
=== oracle2025_ is now known as oracle2025
Lamegohow do I set a file to be ignore from the the diff generation during debuild ?22:10
bddebianDelete it? :)22:11
Lamegonot of it was changed, and not just created, that would break rebuilding22:11
ScottKMove it and put it back when you are done?22:12
ScottKEdit the .diff.gz afterwards.22:12
ajmitchwhat a lot of work, when dpkg-source has options you can use22:13
Lamegothat is not an option, I hate manual actions22:13
* ajmitch usually builds with -i.bzr, to exclude all the bzr info that would make the .diff.gz rather large22:13
Lamegohum, let me try -i with debuild22:14
Lamegoor may I can override debsourceblah blah options on the debian/rules with some CDBS parameter22:15
ajmitchnot that I'm aware of22:16
Lamegothere is :D22:18
ajmitchno, that's a debhelper command run in debian/rules22:18
ajmitchquite separate from dpkg-source22:18
ajmitchwhy do you need to have this file ignored?22:19
Lamegowell, that rule is the one called by CDBS for the package building, I am looking into the CDBS make files22:19
Lamegobecause this file is changed during the building process, and I do not want that change on the building diff22:19
Lamegoah, wait, changelogs22:20
Lamegoforget it, wrong reading22:20
nenolodi forgot how slow the livecd can be :D22:21
=== apachelogger_ is now known as apachelogger
kai^sdshi, anyone in the mood to have a look at the first debdiff from a packaging newby? I have created this (http://pastebin.com/m775701b) debdiff which should fix #69455 - this is a regression of gutsy - a similar patch (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/5214902/oprofile_0.9.2-1ubuntu0.2%7Eproposed1.debdiff) has already been made by someone else for feisty. Did I make a mistake so that the debdiff contains absolute paths starting with /tmp/NQ2LJhqUFj22:43
ScottKkai^sds: That's probably because you did it in a chroot.  That's no trouble, whoever has to apply the patch should be able to apply it with -p2, so no worries.22:45
geserkai^sds: bash is essentail, you don't need to specify it at depends22:46
kai^sdsok. I just did that because the feisty patch did22:47
ScottKgeser and soren: Congratulations on your MOTU council nominations.22:47
nenolodhmm, the install from livecd has improved drastically in gutsy22:48
tonyyarussohow so nenolod ?22:49
nenolodseems much faster22:49
sorenScottK: \o/22:51
sorenScottK: Thanks, man.22:51
nenolod(but maybe it took as long as last time I did an install from livecd, and it just didn't seem as long because i was listening to mp3s and cussing out an IRC troll)22:51
=== Vorian_ is now known as vorian
=== chuck_ is now known as zul
crimsunheh, so my oprofile patch wasn't carried into gutsy? harumph.23:30
crimsunkai^sds: bringing in either the dapper-updates or edgy-updates change will suffice23:36
kai^sdscrimsun: sorry, I don't know what you mean. the important change has been made for feisty...23:38
blueyedkai^sds: you should install patchutils. It creates a -p1 patch in most cases then.23:39
crimsunkai^sds: I made the original change for the dapper and edgy source packages.  It's simply, as you've noticed, a substitution of /bin/bash for /bin/sh.23:39
blueyedexcept if its a native/debian package IIRC.23:39
kai^sdsit is a native debian package afaik23:40
crimsunoprofile?  No, it's non-native.23:40
kai^sdsare you sure? i am new to this, but is it possible that that has changed in gutsy?23:41
crimsunyes, I'm sure.  It carries a Debian package version in addition to an Ubuntu version suffix.23:41
kai^sdsmy information comes from https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/basic-mistakes.html#basic-ex_files which says:23:43
kai^sdsA native package is one that is specific to Ubuntu/Debian. It has debian/ directory containing the packaging information and any changes to the source included in the tarball (usually <packagename>_<version>.tar.gz). Non-native packages are more common. A non-native package splits the source package into a <packagename>_<version>.orig.tar.gz tarball that is identical ...23:43
kai^sdsand oprofile does not contain a .orig tarball23:43
crimsunkai^sds: it was mistakenly uploaded as a native one.23:44
crimsunyes, even core-dev make mistakes from time to time :-)23:44
kai^sdsah, ok23:44
ajmitchhow are you, crimsun?23:46
crimsunnot bad, ajmitch, yourself?23:46
ajmitchbeen busy with work?23:47
crimsunyep, getting a breather for a bit.  Gonna hit up a loco release party/installfest tomorrow afternoon23:48
crimsunkai^sds: if you need any assistance, feel free to ping23:51
kai^sdswell, I have attached the debdiff to the bugreport and anything else is beyond of my control anyway isn't it? ;)23:52
blueyedbug 6945523:53
crimsun([SRU] for oprofile, edgy-updates: bashism in oprofile's opcontrol script prevents user from setting any events)23:53
blueyedubotu: ping?23:53
blueyedCheers altogether btw! :o)23:54
kai^sdsi am not ubotu but anyway: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/oprofile/+bug/6945523:54
blueyedkai^sds: but the bug is stilled "fix released".23:56
blueyedIs this a regression? Has the patch been dropped for gutsy?23:56
kai^sdsit is a regression and i can't change the status23:56
kai^sdsthe patch is for gutsy, yes23:57
blueyedI've nominated it for release on gutsy and hardy. But someone else has to approve it, so it can track it's own status.23:58
blueyedYou can remove old diffs/attachments, can't you?23:59

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