[00:36] o.O compiz, as configured in gutsy, breaks alt-shift-tab. Worth a bug report? [01:04] can someone tell me the best way to start getting into ubuntu development? [01:05] bmk789: Developing under Ubuntu, or developing parts of the distribution? [01:06] parts of the distro [01:06] One of the easiest ways is to find fixes for bugs [01:07] In the long run, you'll want to be able to upload things yourself, which will involve going through the MOTU process [01:07] whats that like? [01:07] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU has information on it [01:07] The FAQ is probably a good starting point [01:08] #ubuntu-motu may also be a good place to ask questions [01:08] ok ill look into that, what language would be most beneficial to learn? [01:10] Most of our code is in either C or Python [01:11] Probably a larger body in C, but a moderate amount of the Ubuntu-specific code is in Python [01:12] ok thanks for the help, ill try to grab some books on C [01:32] Hello everyone, congratulations on release! [01:35] is anybody here? [01:36] JohnKarahalis: Yeah, just exhausted :P [01:37] RAOF: And you didn't come last night. Hmph! [01:37] StevenK: Yeah :( [01:37] neither did I, so it's ok :) [01:37] ;) [01:37] ajmitch: Yeah, but you have the excuse of flights. :-P [01:38] If you don't mind me asking, is anybody in here a paid employee of Canonical? [01:38] there are rumoured to be some around [01:38] * ajmitch is not :) [01:38] I'm looking to interview a professional software engineer as part of a school project. A short interview of just basic questions really. [01:39] I'd guess that there are people not employed by Canonical who are also software engineers too. [01:40] JohnKarahalis: (it's sleepy-time at Canonical right now) [01:40] ooh haha right [01:40] damn time zones [01:40] tonyyarusso: it is? [01:40] People sometimes email such inquiries to the various mailing lists, but I'm not sure how often they get responded to. [01:40] tonyyarusso: it's never sleepy-time at Canonical [01:40] unfortunately, the project requires that the person be salaried [01:40] slangasek: well, close enough... [01:40] the sane ones sometimes sleep [01:41] but "software engineer" isn't exactly my job description :) [01:41] slangasek: do you work for canonical? [01:41] what is it, "release monkey"? [01:41] teehee [01:41] JohnKarahalis: yes [01:41] trained chimp? [01:42] slangasek: you should get some kind of cloak, btw [01:42] slangasek: Awesome! So what is your job title? [01:42] ajmitch, Burgundavia: wow, I can see y'all are grateful that Gutsy is out... :) [01:42] slangasek: sure am :) [01:42] * tonyyarusso wonders if there are any mirrors still functioning [01:43] slangasek: Do you program, or are you involved in support and things like that? [01:43] JohnKarahalis: Ubuntu Release Manager [01:44] so I think they probably let me program some when we're not in a release crunch time, but I haven't had an opportunity to see this in practice yet. :) [01:45] I can't imagine that you'd be kept idle for a few months [01:45] tonyyarusso: why? [01:45] slangasek: so we can tell who you're with ;) [01:45] slangasek: Ahh I see, so not much coding for you I guess. How is it working for a FS company though (that question is just out of curiosity by the way, not for the interview :) [01:45] slangasek: b/c all the cool kids have one [01:45] tonyyarusso: heh [01:45] ajmitch: heh, certainly not; I just don't know that it would include much "software engineering" [01:46] JohnKarahalis: well, it certainly involves some coding, both for keeping the release machinery running appropriately and for helping to fix bugs [01:46] So if you are all bored, anyone want to help me with a problem with a package? :) [01:47] slangasek: That's awesome. I hope to work for a company like canonical one day. [01:47] as for "how is it" - it's a lot more fulfilling than some software work I've done in the past [01:48] bddebian: what package? [01:48] slangasek: That's exactly what I wanted to hear! It seems like it would be more fulfilling. [01:48] You don't wannt know. :-) gnome-breakout [01:48] bddebian: ok, so what's the problem? [01:49] I have fixed everything I wanted to except that the path for the levels isn't getting set. LEVELDIR is supposed to be $(datadir)/gnome-breakout/levels and I have datadir=/usr/share/games but it's still getting /usr/share [01:49] slangasek: Do you think you would be interested in conducting a short interview with me via email some time over the next 2-3 weeks? It would be a simple interview, with questions like "What is a typical work day like", "What languages and technologies do you use", "How big is the team you work in". If you're too busy I completely understand, what with Gutsy and what not. [01:51] JohnKarahalis: do you have an estimate of how long the questions take to answer? [01:52] though, "what is a typical work day like" would be a hard one for me to answer, hum - you'd probably find other Canonical folks better able to answer that :) [01:52] should the alt installer be hitting archive.u.com even though I specified a host ? [01:52] slangasek: I mean, I wouldn't expect that it would take you more than 10-20 minutes to answer the questions. All I basically have to do is write a 3 page paper on the interview, it wouldn't be hard to do that if I had some background information about yourself and some answers to a few additional questions. [01:52] it does hit the specified host, but not after a long delay given the stress on arc.u.c, sometimes causing an error [01:53] slangasek: But if you can't that's fine. I've got fallback options (not as good as a Canonical employee, but....) :) [01:53] JohnKarahalis: sure, I could swing 10-20 min for that; I do think you could probably catch a better-suited candidate if you hung around here for a while though, or tried back earlier in the day (US time) [01:55] slangasek: Yeah, I think I'll try tomorrow morning also. But could I put you down on my list of possible candidates? [01:55] sure [01:55] slangasek@canonical.com [01:55] bddebian: source package showing this behavior? [01:56] slangasek: Wow, thank you very much! What is your name by the way, my prof wants to know the names of the people we are considering. If you'd rather I get that info by email I'll send one to you. [01:56] CarlF1: depending on what you mean when you say you "specified a host", no, you shouldn't have to hit the central server with the installer; but for support please see #ubuntu as mentioned in the channel topic [01:56] slangasek: Well the current package just leaves stuff in /usr/share. I ended up having to autoreconf in order to get localedir to work. [01:56] JohnKarahalis: Steve Langasek (in my IRC client info, fwiw) [01:57] slangasek: Ahh, this is my first time with IRC. Thanks so much! For now I think I'm gonna upgrade to Gutsy. Thanks again, I hope to talk to you soon. [01:57] cheers [01:58] tonyyarusso: anyway, my /whois already tells you who I'm with, I'm with the IPv6 goons :) [01:59] Congratulations guys on another great release. [02:00] Oh, we released? ;-) [02:00] heh [02:01] slangasek: on 'stuff like this' I can't trust what i get in #u for filing a bug report. in this case, I have a feeling it is part of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/debian-installer/+bug/117398 [02:02] bddebian: you need to give me a source package showing the current behavior that you're trying to fix; I'm not going to guess based on a separate version of the source packge [02:02] so if not here, and not #u, any other #chans? [02:02] slangasek: http://www.bddebian.com/packages/debian/gnome-breakout/ [02:03] CarlF1: you're using preseeding? [02:03] yes [02:03] src/Makefile.am: -DLEVELDIR=\"$(datadir)/gnome-breakout/levels\" \ [02:03] CarlF1: and you're going through a proxy? [02:04] yes [02:04] well, if apt-cacher is considered a proxy [02:04] I wonder how many packages I can stack on mentors before I get a single response.. :-) [02:05] CarlF1: usually apt-cacher is not normally run using a proxy configuration AFAIK === jack_wyt_ is now known as jack_wyt [02:07] slangasek: that fits with how I had to set the preseed options [02:07] CarlF1: honestly, I don't see how that's a bug; the syntax in that bug listed under "the only way I could get it to work were with these settings" look like the obvious and correct way /to/ get it to work [02:09] then maybe the bug is the description for http://packages.ubuntu.com/edgy/net/apt-cacher "caching proxy system" [02:10] CarlF1: it is a caching proxy; but it's not an http proxy, it's an apt proxy [02:10] i.e., it only caches and proxies .deb packages, not generic web content [02:11] given is is meant to be used for that it seems odd that the installer settings would be "weird" [02:12] CarlF1: they're not weird to me, but I'm the wrong person to judge because I've been a debian-installer developer for years [02:13] CarlF1: effectively, the reason you configure it that way is because you're specifying your local apt-cacher as your mirror, which is precisely how apt-cacher is designed to function [02:14] i say weird because it dose what a proxy does, but instead of the installer using the proxy settings, I have to munge the host/dir names [02:14] yes, because it's not an http proxy [02:14] so if the documentation doesn't make it clear that "proxy" in the alternate installer refers to an http proxy, I think that's the bug [02:15] that would be a start [02:15] i'm assuming apt-cacher is better than an generic http proxly, right? [02:16] hmm, I don't know that I would say it's "better" - it's a different use case [02:16] better for caching .deb s [02:16] ok, then yes :) [02:17] but the alt installer supports http proxies because some sites *require* all web traffic to go through a proxy [02:17] i see what you are getting at [02:20] The installers proxy settings propose aren't there to hit a caching proxy for speed, they are there for when it is the only way. [02:20] Hmm, seems Mr. Langasek did one of the last uploads of stk too :-) [02:21] stk? [02:22] oh, pff, some package I uploaded in 2005? [02:22] Heh [02:23] CarlF1: well, if your site has a generic caching http proxy already, using it for .debs is fine too even if not mandatory, and probably saves you the trouble of setting up a separate apt-cacher [02:24] slangasek: cept I have only apt-cacher, no http proxy :) [02:25] sure [02:25] I am adding a comment to the that basicaly says "not a bug" [02:27] Launchpad bug 117398 in debian-installer "netboot install proxy apt-cacher" [Undecided,New] [02:27] Frick, I hate source packages with tarballs :-( [02:34] bddebian: I'm out for dinner, but I'm leaving gnome-breakout building and will deliver a diagnosis when I get back [02:34] slangasek: Great, thanks! [02:34] Diagnosis: "It's broken" [02:35] No, I "fixed" it :-) [02:35] the build system is fairly broken though :-( [02:45] OK, f**k stk [02:50] bddebian: um, when I build that source package from scratch, I get the correct path in the binary [02:51] slangasek: The path is correct, I fixed that. When it runs, it looks for the levels in /usr/share/gnome-breakout/levels, not /usr/share/games/... [02:52] I am thinking the locales dir may be wrong at runtime too but since I don't know other languages, I'm not sure how best to test that. [03:06] slangasek: as per my comment a few hours ago, we had to hold back while Gutsy was sitll in development ;) [03:16] slangasek: Any thoughts or have I lost your help? :-) === Whoopie_ is now known as Whoopie [04:00] * bddebian takes that as he's lost the help [04:04] hi, when do you set the default to gutsy on packages.ubuntu.com? === greeneggsnospam is now known as jsgotangco [04:30] is it true that update-manager will automatically remove non-official repositories and also roll back or otherwise deinstall them? Or is that a Kubuntu/Adept feature? Or is it not a feature at all? [04:32] jdong: It's supposed to. I've helped one person today that had to remove some of the Automatix repositories manually. [04:33] ScottK: does it just remove the repositories in sources.list, or does it have a mechanism to remove thigns in Local/Obsolete, and/or downgrade packages back to official versions? [04:33] AFAIK it just removes the repos. [04:33] ok [04:34] so users with unofficial stuff installed, I will still have to tell them to remove them [04:34] I know for this release Automatix is recommending removing everything installed by Automatix and Automatix before upgrading. [04:34] Yes. [04:34] Getdeb makes the same recommendation. [04:34] For their stuff. [04:35] ScottK: And why did you help them? ;-P [04:35] recommendations & reality never tend to match up [04:35] bddebian: I don't think I did. [04:35] :-) [04:35] since it requires the users to be able to isolate the set of packages installed from elsewhere [04:36] I took stuff that we could legally do and stuffed it into the official repos giving them fewer excuses to exist. If that counts as helping, guilty as charged. [04:49] ScottK: beauty :-) [04:50] automatix seems to be very interested in helping [04:50] I wonder if they are seeing less installs which each release? [04:51] Burgundavia: I think they've had a "management restructuring". [04:51] Burgundavia: That's an interesting point - are Automatix seeing less people using them due to us making an effort with things like easy codec installation, along with things like mjg59's analysis. [04:52] The guy that appears to be running the show now at least has interest in cooperating and shows some inclination to listen when being told they're being stupid. === manchicken_ is now known as manchicken [04:52] StevenK: I think that's true. [04:52] I wonder where arnieboy went [04:52] he's still there [04:52] I'd like to see mjg59 do a followup of their Gutsy release to see if their claims "we fixed all that" are accurate. [04:53] ScottK: Mail the tech board, I suspect the answer is, "Let's check to see." [04:53] "WARNING: Automatix for Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy will NOT be upgradeable from previous versions. You must either do a clean install of Gutsy or run Automatix in Feisty and uninstall everything before upgrading to Gutsy." <-- http://www.getautomatix.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page [04:53] The code to sigkill dpkg was at least commented out when I looked. [04:53] im sure mjg has plenty of other things to do ;) [04:54] StevenK: I was sort of hoping he'd read the scrollback and be inspired. [04:55] welcome back milli. [04:55] ScottK: Heh [04:56] * ScottK ponders the text of his secvpn removal request. Good technical terms for "This package is evil and must be destroyed." [04:57] ScottK: "This package eats babies." [04:58] Sounds about right (and does it using sudo - this part true). [04:58] ScottK: just susbcribe a young priest and an old priest [04:59] Every time you install this package...Please, think of the babies. [05:00] * StevenK chuckles [05:00] ScottK: Are there technical reasons for why it should be destroyed? [05:01] Yeah. I'm not sure I'm knowledgeable enough to enumerate them, but the bottom line appears to be that the current package is unworkable and insecure and would have to be almost totaly redone to have a hope of working safely. That's without looking at any of the upstream code. [05:02] StevenK: example - the initscript wants to write into /etc/inittab for start/stop [05:02] *EW* [05:03] yuck [05:03] yuck [05:03] what about people who dont care about security but have to work with employers who do? [05:03] ok espeak says that weirdly [05:03] ScottK: Okay, I think the way forward is to say the bottom line bit in a bug report, and ask pitti to do a short security review - if he finds major flaws, kill it. [05:03] TheMuso: How does it pronounce it? [05:04] StevenK: yook [05:04] StevenK: That sound like an excellent idea. Thanks. [05:04] gootsy [05:04] gutsy is spoken correctly. [05:04] I already got an opinion from keescook on secvpn adding itself to sudoers. He wasn't a fan of that approach. [05:05] Double ew [05:06] hence the slight reservations of having the package being installable [05:13] Right. Once I saw that I quit trying to fix it. [05:30] bddebian: that was while I was still on the way to dinner... [05:30] bddebian: anyway, it's doing the right thing at runtime too for me [05:30] slangasek: Yeah, just got that with TheMuso. Sorry to waste your time too :-( [06:55] good morning === ubuntusucks is now known as elkkubuntu === elkkubuntu is now known as myrttiubuntu [07:04] how #ubuntu I computer no working [07:04] plz help :) [07:04] op #ubuntu-ops no help rude they broke computer no #ubuntu [07:05] myrttiubuntu: that's offtopic for this channel though, this is a development channel, not a support channel [07:05] i be like them they kick and no connect #ubuntu [07:05] i can not connect #ubuntu [07:05] the following review of Kubuntu 7.10 will be released to the public within the next 3 weeks.....not trying to be flamebait....just notifying you guys....my boss is sending an email to you guys as we speak http://bigcatlinux.com/kufailure.html [07:06] people #ubuntu-ops no connect said they rude [07:06] myrttiubuntu: I can't understand you, and nicknames like "ubuntusucks" is unlikely to get you any help [07:06] OpenSorce: your review is incorrect [07:06] OpenSorce: compiz-fusion is for Ubuntu, not Kubuntu [07:07] Burgundavia, thanks for pointing that out I'll have it corrected [07:07] Karnaugh i same nick as op but no connect #ubuntu, ops rude [07:07] OpenSorce: the other thing you might want to change is that we don';t install prop. drivers for good reason [07:07] Burgundavia, whatever [07:07] Burgundavia, it either wors or it doesn't [07:07] myrttiubuntu: you are offtopic here, please either stop being offtopic or I'll have to ask you to leave. [07:08] *works [07:08] all ubountu are rude [07:08] OpenSorce: it makes no sense to argue with you, suffice it to say, that isn't going to change [07:08] Burgundavia, not my job to get into the how and the why [07:08] Burgundavia, okay :-) [07:09] there, in fact, possible legal issues with shipping binary drivers [07:09] OpenSorce: you should point out the multimedia keys didn't work with your keyboard. They work just fine on my keyboard. [07:09] Burgundavia, Mandriva does it [07:10] OpenSorce: legal opinions differ on this matter [07:10] Mithrandir, it's all taken from a sampling of one machine [07:10] Burgundavia, okay [07:10] OpenSorce: yes, and you don't say that, nor do you say what kind of hardware you have. [07:11] Mithrandir, that gets added prior to final publication [07:11] OpenSorce: I hope you are filing bugs about all the problems you have encountered as well [07:11] This is a pre-edit copy, btw [07:11] OpenSorce: I suggest you read this: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy [07:12] and there is an error I gave too many stars for the keyboard it will be 4 in the final release [07:12] Burgundavia, it doesn't matter.....I am rating it for new user suitability....that holds the distro to a higher standard [07:12] OpenSorce: binary drivers are not needed for average users [07:13] Burgundavia, okay....either way I don't want to "troll" in here....just notifying you guys of the article [07:14] as for your wireless, what kind of driver do you have?' [07:14] Burgundavia, you are welcome to join #bigcat if you want to discuss this further.....I don't want to clog the channel with off-topic stuff === myrttiubuntu is now known as ubuntunonaked [07:16] lol [07:16] dumbass === ubuntunonaked is now known as ubuntunonakedgir [07:17] be nice, holycow [07:18] how fix? [07:19] no help no #ubuntu how fix broken? === ubuntunonakedgir is now known as ubuntuhowfix === ubuntuhowfix is now known as howfixhowfixhowf [07:22] Good morning [07:22] morning pitti [07:24] Morning pitti [07:30] does anybody know the power output of the PCI bus? [07:31] Burgundavia: Did you look at the other content on the site that "Journalist" pointed to? [07:34] Burgundavia, I'm sorry did you ask me about the chipset in my wifi adapter? [07:34] bye now. [07:34] bloody tor [07:34] Burgundavia, it's acx....which it seemed to think was a wired device [07:35] OpenSorce: If you are a journalist, why are you putting your reviews on a web site of another linux distribution? [07:36] ScottK, that's one of my personal websites....it's just where I uploaded for review [07:36] OK. It looks like that web site of a soon to be Linux distro. [07:36] ScottK, it is.....I don't know if I'd use the term "soon" :-) [07:37] Odd thing for a journalist doing independent distro reviews to have. [07:37] ScottK, and it's probably a project I'll have to hand off to someone else since it may be a conflict of interest for me [07:38] ScottK, I'm a geek...we make geeky things :-) [07:38] Hobbsee: you may want to try & get him out of other channels also [07:38] * Hobbsee watches her troll meter go off [07:38] :) [07:38] ajmitch: i'm somewhat limited by the fact that we have no staffers around. [07:38] unfortunate [07:38] and i dont have ops on every single ubuntu channel [07:38] OpenSorce: It sounds like you've been working on it for some time. [07:38] yeah well, it is australian day. [07:39] ScottK, yeah....about oh...a week :-) [07:39] ScottK,OpenSorce: please take this elsewhere, it's not related to development of Ubuntu. [07:39] Mithrandir, I apologize [07:39] ScottK, #bigcat is open [07:39] * ScottK will note that the domain was registered yesterday and shut up. [07:40] Mithrandir, sorry I just came back to answer a question about my wifi chipset [07:41] OpenSorce: sure, which is fine, but if (plural) you want to discuss further, please do so somewhere else. [07:42] Mithrandir, of course :-) === infinity2 is now known as infinity [08:28] sladen: yes, but you miss nice weather, compared to au. [08:28] perhaps you should move to AU, and all the problems will be solved! [08:45] Why Isn't the locales for Firefox and Thunderbird included in their main package? [08:46] They should be included in their own locale packs, becuase they are enormous. [08:46] mkay [09:01] Hobbsee: I'd consider it, but the latency is just unbareable [09:04] SlimG2: the main reason is that they use a custom method for translation [09:04] SlimG2: the entire FOSS world uses gettext, except for Mozilla and OpenOffice products [09:05] SlimG2: we are aiming at eventually providing them in the normal language packs, but it'll still take a while (maybe we'll manage in hardy) [09:06] pitti: thanks for explaining [09:42] mvo: can I ask you again to update the status of bug 120957? [09:42] Launchpad bug 120957 in update-manager "UpdateManager fails to fetch dist-upgrade tarball" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/120957 [09:44] pitti: this is fixed with 0.59.25 in feisty-updates [09:45] mvo: and in gutsy? [09:45] pitti: but let me read up on it again to see why it was reopend [09:45] pitti: I'm pretty sure it is fixed in gutsy too, but I will double check [09:46] mvo: thanks; just wanting to make sure that it doesn't fall off the table === ogra__ is now known as ogra [10:10] pitti: hi. I had reported two bug for uplash (and a wished feature), and subscribed you. [10:10] so, in both reports there are my fixes. could you take a look if I didn't make something wrong? [10:10] hey seb128 [10:11] hello dholbach [10:12] gaspa: ah, thank you! Will have a look [10:13] pitti: I attacched my bazaar branch, and i got a source package in ppa. [10:13] so you can try it. [10:13] gaspa: hm, I didn't get bug mail yet [10:13] strange... [10:14] right, you're subscribed only for bug 152952 [10:15] gaspa: what's the use case for 152952? [10:16] gaspa: we should generally avoid asking questions to the user unless it's absolutely necessary (such as entering a passphrase for encrypted partitions, etc.) [10:16] gaspa: did you have something particular in mind? [10:17] Launchpad bug 152952 in usplash "input command with timeout parameter" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/152952 [10:17] we use it. for our products. we don't want that user sees terminal [10:18] and i think it could be useful for someone else... but this is only a whish. The other two are bug fix, and probably more important [10:19] gaspa: right, I'm not saying I don't like it (after all, it's just an optional feature); I was just interested in a concrete use case (maybe we want it for something by default as well?) [10:20] pitti: please accept gcc-4.2 [10:21] pitti: we ask things like "push 'f' key if you want to force a check" ... or something like that... in that case the system should not wait forever for a key but instead goes on and boot properly [10:22] gaspa: ah, I see [10:23] ;) [10:26] ogra: do you still make use of human-cursors-theme or do you also use dmz-cursor-theme? [10:26] pitti: and for Bug #154234? I'm not sure of this. I filed it cause i wasn't able to build the package in ppa. [10:26] Launchpad bug 154234 in usplash "build-depend on libgd-dev " [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/154234 [10:26] dholbach, dmz iirc [10:26] right, human-* is in universe [10:26] I'll ask for its removal in hardy [10:27] ah, that's a bit special; it works, because libgd2-xpm-dev (main) Provides: libgd-dev [10:28] gaspa: http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~gaspa/usplash/usplash-addson/revision/172 looks fine, I'll apply that === carlos_ is now known as carlos [10:29] pitti, not at all [10:29] gaspa: thank you for your fixes! what's the other bug#? I still didn't get mail [10:29] i'll write: "libgd2-xpm-dev | libgd2-noxpm-dev" [10:29] i think it's better [10:30] gaspa: "libgd2-xpm-dev | libgd-dev" is best IMHO [10:30] gaspa: make use of the virtual package, but prefer a concrete one [10:31] oh, right. [10:31] if you want, i'll push it right now. [10:31] (now you're subscribed to all three reports) [10:32] doko: done [10:38] gaspa: what's the third one? [10:39] ... mmm.. which are the first two? :-P :-P [10:39] gaspa: #154234 and #152952, as above [10:39] all are: 152933, 152952, 154234 [10:39] ok, 152933 then [10:40] gaspa: splendid! thanks [10:40] * pitti hands gaspa the "official usplash maintainer" badge [10:40] lol [10:40] somebody's gotta be ;-) [10:41] ah, I'm TLA now :/ [10:41] TIL even [10:41] pitti: i'm not even a motu. ;) [10:41] gaspa: ^ that's "touched-it-last", and denotes the poor soul who gets all the bugs henceforth :) [10:43] dholbach: my ubuntu-main-sponsors membership is about to expire; care to renew it? === Mez is now known as Mez|Away [10:45] cjwatson: sure [10:46] pitti, but what should happen on launchpad? now it should appear something? [10:47] gaspa: I assigned the bugs to me and marked them 'in progress', so that I'll get to them soon === Mez|Away is now known as Mez [10:47] dholbach: thanks [10:54]