[03:15] ubiquity: superm1 * r2179 mythbuntu-ubiquity/ (debian/changelog scripts/mythbuntu/apply-services): fix typo in mysql-server [10:56] cjwatson: hale. [10:57] dia duit [11:01] So I'm using just the kernel & initrd to do the unattended network install -- rather than using casper over nfs and the live installer. [11:02] Does the simple d-i installer support GTK, like Etch? [11:02] no [11:02] I spent quite a bit of energy on that, but eventually decided to go the ubiquity path instead [11:03] I think GTK d-i needs a lot more effort put into plugins before it's sufficiently usable [11:03] but for unattended installs it doesn't really seem like a big deal [11:03] On Ubuntu, or generally? [11:03] Yeah, I was more curious than anything. [11:03] well, generally, but obviously Debian can do what it likes :-) [11:04] the partitioner is the main problem [11:04] What's wrong with it? It seemed fine to- ah. [11:04] it's pretty much just a straight conversion of the newt installer [11:04] the only win seems to be that you get to use the mouse [11:04] I think that's a corrollary of trying to smush the partitioner into the UI-agnostic infrastructure [11:05] only because nobody's written plugins :) [11:05] cdebconf plugins let you make things UI-aware [11:05] Interesting. [11:05] but it's hard work to do for the partitioner [11:05] I get the impression that people have had trouble with the Ubuntu live partitioner, though, too. Under Feisty. [11:06] and the infrastructure for cdebconf plugins is unfortunately not quite finished (libd-i needs work) [11:06] sure, ours is far from perfect either, I acknowledge [11:06] don't get me wrong, I'm not doing a "rah rah Ubuntu rocks Debian sucks" kind of thing [11:06] No worries. [11:07] It's clear to me you're level-headed about it. [11:07] partitioning UI is hard; even the dedicated implementations (gparted, qtparted) have major flaws [11:07] I don't think anyone's done it right on Linux yet [11:08] at least not in a graphical way; the text-only ones are pretty good within that medium [11:08] Especially if you introduce multiple label types, LVM, md, and trying to maybe not blow away existing partitions. [11:08] right. we have a design we're working towards that should accommodate LVM and md, but (again, spot the theme) it's hard work [11:09] Just "blow it away and do something sensible" is working fine. [11:09] and the flaws will probably only become apparent once it's in place [11:09] (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Ubiquity/AdvancedPartitionerRewrite) [11:10] What I'm keen on is for the whole metainit/upstart-sysv-compat stuff to clear up so we can actually have daemons using upstart properly [11:11] yeah, I'm no expert on that though [11:11] I did some work on thttpd recently and it's distressing how bad the init.d scripts are, because they're currently written by people who aren't experts on init, but rather experts on [11:12] twb: so from your comments in /msg earlier I gathered that there was some problem with putting the keymap stuff on the kernel command line? [11:13] are you running over the length limit? [11:13] cjwatson: no, it's just inelegant [11:14] if you're prepared to modify the initrd, you can use a /preseed.cfg file in there for the stuff that comes before bringing up the network [11:14] or, as I say, kickstart works around it by bringing the network up early before fetching the preseed file [11:14] er, before fetching the kickstart file [11:14] cjwatson: I was already wondering about that so I won't have to run an HTTP daemon [11:15] Using file= that is [11:15] you can preseed everything in /preseed.cfg if you like, that's valid enough [11:15] file= doesn't come right at the start [11:15] it comes after keymap handling too [11:15] Hmm, so without arguments it will use /preseed.cfg? [11:15] file= is basically for CD installs when you want to do file=/cdrom/... [11:15] Oh, I see. [11:16] or to fetch stuff off the hard disk [11:16] (but nevertheless after hardware detection runs) [11:16] yes, /preseed.cfg in the initrd is used unconditionally - any file= or url= arguments supplement it [11:16] If it uses /preseed.cfg from the initrd without being told, can I tell it NOT to do that -- for the odd occasion when I want to cancel out preseeding and do a fully manual install [11:16] ...or would I have to have a separate initrd? [11:17] you'd have to use a separate initrd [11:17] OK. [11:17] interesting thought though, maybe a wishlist on the preseed package [11:18] An example would be that all my systems would be seeded with TZ=Australia/Melbourne, unless we're building a box to ship out to a large customer. [11:19] Although normally I guess we'd make them a new netboot entry with different initrd/seed anyway. [11:24] timezone's handled much later, of course, so you could do that with URL preseeding or similar if you wanted [11:25] Good point -- I could have the preseed in the initrd ONLY set up the keyboard and suchlike, and then do the rest via HTTP [11:32] right [12:34] hello there [12:34] anyone free to give me some advice on installing Ubuntu - first time user here [12:42] cjwatson, loopinstallation requires to override a few files in the target system (init.d scripts, initramfs-tools, and update-grub), what is a good way to do that? [12:45] I'd guess that the patched packages should hit the gutsy repo and I'd only need to override the packages inside the ISO. Is that ok? [12:46] I still need to go over the patches and clean them up by the way (probably this w/e). [13:25] xivulon: gutsy isn't going to change now [14:03] cjwatson, what do you suggest? [14:05] I mean overriding the files is ugly but easy, the issue is of course when people upgrade such packages. [14:26] xivulon: for init.d scripts and initramfs-tools, write them as separate scripts rather than changing existing ones; that should be possible for the most part [14:26] xivulon: what needs to be changed in update-grub? [14:28] Hmm umountfs must skip /host (and /boot) whenever umounting /host will cause / to jump... [14:28] Not sure I can do that in a separate script [14:29] So basically if umounting mountpoint X you unmount device Y which also host root, then you have to skip [14:31] As for update-grub kopt is not set correctly in the case of a loop installation [14:31] http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/wubi/gutsy/annotate/ago%40nb-ago-20071019072229-l4szhanyv3n0erks?file_id=updategrub-20071009210021-2g4lnkrfrydx012e-3 [14:37] Then of course you need to take care of /host & co in umountroot [14:38] But that can be done in a separate script [14:40] OK, I'm just telling you what the constraints are. It is not possible to change gutsy for things other than major regressions, security problems, or data loss bugs. [14:41] so that's what you need to work around in order to support gutsy [14:54] cjwatson, what we used to do before, was to have an init.d script that would patch subsequent init.d scripts. That will work, but it's not the most elegant solution. [15:04] dpkg-divert will be used for update-grub [15:20] The plan is to use dpkg-divert for init.d/update-gurb/initramfs-tools within lupin-support, and override the ISO to provide an updated lupin-support.deb. Any issue with that? [15:21] you can't use dpkg-divert for anything in /etc [15:21] I thought it was too easy [15:21] it doesn't work at all for configuration files (not shipped in .debs), and it breaks in corner cases for conffiles (shipped in .debs) [15:22] dpkg-divert is probably reasonable for the rest of it [15:22] For init.d I can use an early start/stop script to override umountfs [15:31] Okthat's all I needed to know, thx [17:47] cjwatson, I really think that /sbin/mount.ntfs should be skept within sendsigs. [17:48] users that have ntfs(-3g) mounted and reboot, will end up with the ntfs killed by sendsigs as opposed of being unmounted [17:48] this is not a lupin only featrue, and can result in data loss/fs corruption [17:51] now reading your comment in #151580 [17:52] please make this sort of comment in bug reports rather than by IRC [17:52] I find it very difficult to keep track of bugs raised on IRC and would prefer people not to do it [17:52] Sure, I had missed your previous comment. I think you have a good point [17:53] and shifting between bug reports and IRC when the issue isn't immediately resolvable makes it extremely difficult to look back later and see why something was done [21:52] evand: hey [21:52] is there a way to get proof that the ubuntu boot procedure did or didn't successfully fetch the preseed file? [21:55] joshk: I *think* it writes stdout/stderr to /var/log/casper.log [21:55] ah, darn. network is unreachable [21:56] DHCP being weird, i guess [21:56] that kinda sucks, though. [21:57] what do you mean? [21:57] reconciling syslog and capser.log, network was available 13 seconds later [21:59] hrm, I could move that further down in the chain of events. [21:59] cjwatson: ^-- thoughts? [21:59] don't you have all sorts of dbus noise to figure out whether dhcp client has gotten a lease yet? [22:02] hrm, indeed. I'll toy around with that later. [22:02] But first I need to head to the bank. [22:02] money's important. [22:02] 'tis indeed :) [22:38] is there a way to tell preseed to mount an arbitrary device for preseeding? [22:38] say, /dev/cdrom1 [22:48] alternatively, a way to specify an arbitrary command on the command line [22:48] (isolinux command line) [23:32] is there like a ubiquity/really_early_command that runs before preseeding that i can sepcify maybe? [23:32] *specify